tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 28, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
weeks, but for months now. it's not only him. it's across the dial. >> tony dokoupil on the campaign trail in wisconsin gets tonight's last word. thank you, tony. chris hayes is up next. tonight on "all in." >> i expect that from a 12-year-old bully on the playground. >> i did a retweet. it was a retweet by somebody else. >> donald trump's welcome rocky to wisconsin. >> do you stand by what you said about scott walker? >> i can say what i took out of time magazine. if time magazine is wrong, then they should apologize. >> how the badger state become the front lines of the stop trump movement. why the trump campaign plans to file a legal complaint with the rnc. bernie sanders won three states by a land slide. >> we have a path toward victory. >> sanders backer tells me something that should worry team clinton. >> i think a lot of people are
sorry. i just can't bring myself to do that. we'll tell you who's actually behind the petition to have guns at the republican convention when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. there are two races under way in the republican presidential election. the one for the votes of citizens who actually go cast a primary ballot for the candidate of their choice. that race gets the big headline in the flashy election night coverage. that where campaigns post most of their energy and resources and we in the news media dissect every detail. after the candidates have moved on, the other race unfolds behind the scenes. it's the process of selecting the delegate, the real people and representatives to go to the republican convention this summer in cleveland. in the anti-trump forces want any hope of stopping trump, this is the race they cannot lose. first race, the one playing out
in public is getting about to the magic number, 1237 delegates. trump is still the only candidate within striking dance. next primary is in wisconsin a week from tomorrow. it's winner take all which means the tiniest margins could decides whether he gets all 42 or nothing at all. trump has already run into a buzz saw with wisconsin's robust conservative establishment recently empowered by the political battle of the scott walker years. in a tough interview with charlie sykes, the republican front-runner refused to apologize well about comments of ted cruz wife. the comments did not go over well. >> i failed in my effort to introduce you to wisconsin and tradition of civility and decency in wisconsin. >> i didn't start it. he started it. if he didn't start it, it would have never happened. nothing like this would have
ever happened. he started it. >> remember we're not -- >> i'm fine with it. >> we're not on a playground. we're running for president of the united states. >> more in the battle for wisconsin is winner take most, not winner take all. even after voters go to the polls next week, it won't be the end of the story, far from it. that's when the second race, the behind the scenes race is just getting started. louisiana, an ugly fight is now developing. even though the state gop held the primary over three weeks ago it was a solid victory for trump who finished three points ahead of ted cruz. last week they reported that cruz could win the delegate count potentially picking up the five delegates awarded to marco rubio. trump threatened to sue on twitter which is a thing he likes to do. today in an interview on msnbc, senior advisor barry bennett said the trump campaign plans to follow through. >> the problem we're having here
is there's a secret meeting in louisiana of a convention delegation and all the invitations for our delegates must have gotten lost in the mail. i've been with our legal team most of the morning and we're moving forward with the complaint to decertify these delegates. >> that's only part of behind the scenes intrigue in louisiana and across the country. a week afterthe primary, the state gop convention, louisiana delegates elected representatives to the three rnc committees who will decide how things work in cleveland. it could, for instance, decide no one with the initials d.t. can be the republican nominee. according to the journal, cruz supporters seized five of
louisiana's six slots on the three crucial committees. if trump's opponents continue to sue that, all bets are off in july. >> if there are shenanigan, all of those millions of people that donald trump has brought into the arena are not going to stay there. the republicans are going to lose and it's going to be not only the presidency, but the senate. it could even been the house. it's going to be destruction. >> joining me is barry bennett of the trump campaign. what's the lawsuit about? >> after the convention on sunday or this weekend, 27 of the 46 delegates got together and with a vote of 22 of the 27, they decided that the cruz
delegates should be on the rules committee and the standing committees except for one slot. our delegate, 18 of them, the invitations must got lost in the mail. >> i've heard you say that line before. what's the legal problem with that? it is the party. didn't you get caught napping or out hustled? >> the rules require that all delegates be gathered. not just the ones that you think will vote the way you want to vote. that's the first violation. we're going to move forward with certification challenge. they should have had a meeting with all the delegates. 22 votes shouldn't be deciding who gets the most powerful slots at the convention. >> are you getting out hustled at the ground level because the trump campaign has so little on the ground organization, and so distant from the institutional republican party? >> four years ago louisiana had
problems as well. i don't think it's a ground game problem for us. we have a pretty good team. we're moving around the country rapidly. when we find things like this, we are going to fight it. what happened here just wasn't on the up and up. >> who is the ultimate authority here? >> the rnc. >> in some strict, important sense the party does decide its own nominee. if the party wants to screw you, they probably can. >> you can appeal to the delegates at the convention, but yes. >> what's the strategy going forward here? you can file a lot of lawsuits but it seems like we're running towards a situation like famously in '68, there were two slates of delegates from mississippi. there was the mississippi freedom democrats and the institutional mississippi party. two sets of delegates showing up at rules meetings.
two sets of delegates trying to get behind closed door meetings? >> it's not horribly uncommon that you run into the problems going into the convention. i think it's settled out right before the convention. we hope this is a rare occurrence and isn't repeated in other states. 22 people should not decide for 46 people. >> donald trump has said that if he gets just below 1237, the magic number that signiies the number that it would lead to riots or unrest or tremendous disaffection. that number is there for a reason. it wasn't pulled out of thin air. it's just the majority of the delegates. >> it's majority plus one. we're going to get to 1237. that's not a problem. after the last primary they have 40 days to woe the at will or free delegates.
then you've got the first three days of the convention before the ballots. there's plenty of time to woe those who are willing to be woed. it will be the first ballot and it will be decided. >> can i ask you why you're doing this? >> doing what? >> working for donald trump. >> because i think washington needs a big time makeover. i think the bernie sanders supporters and the donald trump supporters have that in common. they both believe that the establishment in washington, both republican and democrat have done a lot to harm our country. we have two separate solutions, but we have a common problem. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> i'm joined by the former republican congressman who has experience at conventions. what do you think about the blithe assurances from mr. bennett that they will get what they need? >> i think there's very slim chance that will happen. i think trump knows it.
that's why they are threatening to cause disturbances or riots at the convention because they're afraid the rules will stand. he wants like any bully or any cry baby, what the trump campaign wants to do is say, maybe it's a hundred yard dash. maybe i won't get that far, but if i come close you ought to give it to me. he wants to change the rules. there's a reason that there is that number. you have to reach that number. if you don't reach it, nobody reaches it, there's not a nominee. then the convention decides who they want representing the republican party. >> this is what i can't decide. i love your insight. is the constitutional republican party going to roll over and allow themselves to be bullied into a trump nomination even if the guy is getting 40, 50%, 45%, are or they going to do everything in their power at every marginal delegate make
sure they are taking delegates away from it? >> they're going to do everything in their power. this is not game. we're not talking about who gets the nomination of a club to run for president. we're talking about who could potentially be the president of the united states. the prospect of having somebody who knows so little, is so cavalier with the truth, so nasty and demeaning and potentially very damaging to our relationships around the world, you can't let somebody like that become president of the united states because, as your previous guest just said, we need change. maybe we need change, but donald trump is not the change we need and the republican party knows that. >> let me stop you for one second. you say the republican party knows that. what are you referring to specifically? what does that mean?
>> chris, there's been 32 conventions, caucuses, primaries held so far. over 21 million votes have been cast. overwhelming number of them, 60% of them against donald trump. for months and months it's been donald trump versus not donald trump. the not donald trump votes have been all split up because there's so many candidates running. every poll shows that donald trump is very unpopular with the party. the voters, the republican voters have rejected him by nearly six million votes that have gone against the margin between those two voted against him and for him. that's why he should not be representing the republican party. >> it's been a very long time
since we had an open convention. '76 is sort of the closest. does anyone know how to do this anymore? are you confident it can exist without a determined nominee going into it? >> sure. these people -- we've done there. i've been to lots of conventions. we know how to run a convention. it's a lot more peaceful. a lot calmer if you already know who your nominee is before you get there and do a tv show. as it happens, this is serious business. delegates know, the final say is in the hands of the delegate themselves. they can change the rules. they can keep the rules as they are. after the first ballot, they can vote for anybody they want. a lot of these people are party regulars who got assigned to vote for donald trump because he won their primary. that doesn't mean they're for him. >> that is one of the things we'll find out as we get further in this process. thank you very much.
>> thank you, chris. still ahead, given everything we told you about the republican convention this july, do you think that allowing firearms into that cleveland arena would be a good idea? why almost 50,000 people signed a petition saying go for it. it was a big weekend for bernie sanders. we'll take a closer listen to one of the worst interviews donald trump has given this campaign. that's two minutes away. set your iphones and don't go anywhere. take pictures of sunri. it's my job and it's also my passion. but with my back pain i couldn't sleep... so i couldn't get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12-hour strength of aleve... for pain relief that can last into the morning. and now... i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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>> senator ted cruz tonight challenging donald trump to a one-on-one debate in wisconsin tomorrow night. the state with 42 delegates up for grabs in next week's primary. cruz has been pushing hard to win them campaigning across the state. a winning road map drawn by wisconsin governor and former 2016 presidential hopeful, scott walker in 2010, the same demographic that's driven trump's success so far. walker won three times. donald trump called into three separate conservative radio shows not realizing the worth kept secret in wisconsin's primary is the radio hosts are hostile. here are some of the awkward interview between trump and charlie sykes, a self-described never trump guy. >> since you're here in
wisconsin, last august you said some things about conservatives, the conservative revolution in scott walker. you said wisconsin is doing terribly. it's a deficit of $2.2 billion. the schools are a disaster. the hospitals and education was a disaster. mr. trump, do you stand by that now that you're going to be talking to wisconsinites? >> i got that from time magazine. it was taken out of time magazine. >> you said it. do you stand by what you said about scott walker? >> i can only say what i took out of time magazine. i took a story out of time magazine and the story was exactly what it said. >> it's false. >> they should apologize. i should apologize for reading time magazine. >> that was one portion of trump's first radio interview of the day. gave two more interviews.
the last one with conservative radio host vicky mckenna where he appeared to hang up on her. >> the national enquirer is not respected. that article about the alleged fairs is well sourced as game of telephone. >> i didn't put it in. somebody put it in. it wasn't me. >> how about this. how about wives and kids off limits? >> that's okay. all you have to do is tell that to cruz. >> if i can get senator cruz on the program, i would say the same. >> best of luck to you. >> i appreciate the time. >> donald trump will be arriving in person, wisconsin just in time to make his endorsement. john, i'm fascinated by the way the entire walker machine sump as it is is mobilizing against trump. is it surprising to you or is this what you would expect?
>> it's not what we expected at the start of the race. everybody thought scott walker would have his team mobilized behind it. when his campaign collapsed, it threw his coalition in different directions. a lot of legislatures went to marco rubio. talk radio was kind of all over the place. as all these other candidates starts to drop out, you saw charlie sykes and a few other folks kind of start to edge stronger and stronger toward the cruz position. there's no question now that talk radio is aligned with the walker or at least a lot of the walker/legislative republican establishment behind cruz or encouraging cruz whether they have endorsed or not formally. then you have the old school, tommy thompson strongly aligned with kasich. trump has hardly anybody except
perhaps a good chunk of blue collar voters. >> i wonder how much the walker, looks like he's going to say he's not endorsing anyone or he's going to endorse, cruz because he's already saying cruz is the only way to beat trump. how much will that matter? >> i'm not sure. it's a very complex game that's in play. remember, wisconsin has been on an incredible roller coaster for the last five, six years. from the outside it looks like the republicans are a united grouping. there's a will the of republicans who have not been all that enthusiastic about scott walker. they backed him when he was fighting the democrats and the unions, but now that you're in an internal fight, you have a complex division developing where some of the old school republicans, people like tommy thompson really want to have a republican nominee who can
potentially win the state in november. they're showing up with kasich. then you have the walker people aligning a lot with talk radio and just trying to stop trump without a real vision of where they go next. >> do you think that trump's lack of any actual sort of institutional support will spell his demise. this seems like this is a never trump landmark battle. he's got nothing but just the degree to which he has genuine appeal to the base. >> yes. this is a big deal. i think that one thing that hasn't been talked about enough is that donald trump has under polled in wisconsin from the start of this race. he's always been weaker in wisconsin. the november pairing shows him being wiped out by bernie sanders and hillary clinton.
i think there's always been a problem there for trump much like in minnesota. the one thing i would emphasize is -- i was at a kasich event before i came over to do this show. it was packed to the rafters. there was no room to fit anybody else in. i saw a lot of hard core, real republicans there, active republicans. i don't say casually, but i think there's an outside chance trump could do poorly in wisconsin. >> thank you so much for joining us. appreciate it. still ahead, i sat down with susan suarandon and whether sanders supporters could come around and vote for clinton. >> i think a lot of people are sorry, i just can't bring myself to do that. >> how about you? >> i don't know. i'll see what happens. bees? eese. trees? eese.
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today sanders told reporters, i think it's clear now to anyone that knows how to count delegates that neither candidate, hillary clinton or bernie sanders will win a majority of the delegates with just pledge delegates. the math doesn't bear that out. clinton is ahead collecting 56% so far and could reach the magic numbers of the delegates by the convention. the sanders campaign says it believes it can persuade super delegates already committed to clinton to flip. something they're at liberty to do and that would mean campaign that extends past the primaries into july. it would be a long ride. they have showed that they are ride or die for bernie. earlier i spoke with one of those people. you've been on the campaign trail quite a bit.
i'm curious who do you get from that? >> oh, wow. so much home and so much hope with an america that i haven't seen. i've driven across country country a while back and worked in iowa but to have the opportunity to talk to people and so moved by their passion and there's a lot of independent thinkers in the middle of this country and to see them give their time and their passion and be so vulnerable that way to want to be engaged again after not having anyone that they trusted or spoke to them and see thousands upon thousands of people turn out and thousands of volunteers from other places and visit those little offices and to introduce him in the beginning when he didn't have any security and now there's also these guys, secret service traveling with him and
everything. i really want to be on the right side of history. this is a shot we're not going to have in my lifetime to have a candidate that's so morally consistent, makes decisions, whose judgment proves to be true and does it at a time when it's not popular and confident. a candidate not taking any money from super pacs or fracking or wall street, which all the other candidates have. those are issues that are really important to me. to have a guy that's that consistent that is that clean, it's not going to happen again. >> you just said on the right side of history, which is interesting to me. in certain quarters there's growing concern that the folks that are into bernie sanders have come to despise hill clinton or reject hillary clinton that they will walk away.
>> that's a legitimate concern. >> isn't that crazy? if you believe in what he believes in. >> she doesn't. she accepted money for all of those people. she doesn't want to fight for a $15 minimum wage. these are people that have not come out before. why would we think they would come out for her. >> you really that? >> i think there's a good possibility. i talk to people who want to -- i talk to republicans who have written him already. they feel like she's not authentic. she's a liar. they don't trust her so what difference does it make. if you're a small farmer and worried about fracking on your property, in idaho they passed a bill where they can frack on private land. why would you think she would have your back? >> there's all sights of politician who is have done
things to effectively reform industries they have taken money from. >> i don't buy it at all. they know that jobs are going out. bernie voted against nafta. all these things coming up that they know affect their jobs. she's not on the right side of that. she hasn't voted right. what would you make think once she gets in she will go against the people that have given her millions and millions of dollars. i think that's being incredibly naive to think she will see the right. >> isn't the question about choices in election. i think a lot of people think if it's donald trump or hillary clinton and i think bernie sanders would think this -- >> i think bernie would encourage people because he doesn't have any ego. i think a lot of people are
sorry, i can't bring myself to do that. >> how about you personally? >> i don't know. i'm going to see what happens. >> really? >> really. >> i cannot believe as you're watching, if donald trump -- >> people feels donald trump will bring the revolution. >> you're saying the model. >> some people feel that. >> don't you think that's dangerous? >> i think what's going on now. if you think it's pragmatic to sure up the status quo, it's not working. it's dangerous to think we can continue the way we are with the militarized police force, with the death penalty and the low minimum wage and threats to women's rights and think you can't do something huge to turn that around. the country is not in good shape if you're in the middle class. it's disappearing. you look if you want to see michael moore's documentary, it's pretty funny the way they
describe it. you'll see that health care and education in all these other countries, we've been told it's impossible. it's like we've been in this bad relationship and now we have to break up with the guy because we realize we're worth it. we should have these things. i don't like the fact she talks about henry kissinger is her go to guy for the stuff that's happened in libya. i don't think it's good. >> you can see more of our interview in which we talk about her work with refugees at msnbc.com/allin. still to come, republican presidential candidates are put on the spot. should guns be allowed in their national convention arena. what they said and who is behind the open carry petition, just ahead. every insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. for those who've served
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those reports were foggy and incomplete. lots of chaos. turns out that man who was previously known to security approached the capitol screening check point in the visitor center which is right down there in the video where the guy is looking down and took out what appeared to be a weapon and shot by a police officer. he has since been identified as larry dawson, 67-year-old from tennessee. he has a realistic looking pistol type pellet gun. after being rushed to the hospital he later died. the only reason this man wasn't running around with a gun in halls of congress itself is because there's metal detectors for every person that enters. it's a gun free zone. it's something that the strident lawmakers are okay with. i've talked with them about it on the show. many of those same lawmakers will be at the republican national convention this summer in cleveland, ohio. being pro-gun and anti-gun free zone is the majority position. the quicken loans convention
does not allow guns inside even though ohio is an open carry state. now there's a petition calling on republican candidates to speak out and allow convention attendees to openly carry firearms inside the convention hall this july. all three staunchly pro-open candidates have weighed in. did they stick to their guns? i'll tell you in 60 seconds. ? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day ving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a.
ted cruz said he would want to get the recommendations from secret service. john kasich says all that matter s what the secret service says. donald trump said he would need to read the fine print. this afternoon the secret service let them off the hook announcing firearms will not be allowed past a predetermined outer perimeter check point. now, it appears the petition, which notes the arena's no gun policy doesn't factor in the possibility of an isis terror attack may be created more as satire than protest. speaking truth to stupid since well, since now. if the goal was expert trolling and making republicans squirm on their interpretation of the second amendment and gun safety, well, well done.
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it's the most sweeping anti-lgbt bill in the nation and it will not stand the test of time or the test of federal court. >> today a coalition of lgbt groups and activists said they were suing to stop the implementation of gay law that overrules local lgbt non-discrimination protections and limits which bathrooms transgender people can use. that law has been met within out pouring of rage and disapproval from corporations, ibm, google, dow and comcast nbc universal. in georgia lawmakers passed an anti-gay bill that faced widespread condemnation but there the republican governor
deny social conservatives that he would veto the bill. >> i do not think we have to discriminate against anyone to protect the fate based community in georgia. it's about the character of our state and the character of our people. >> joining me now nationally syndicated sex advice columnist. what's your understanding of what happened in these two states in terms of the different out comes we got? you had a governor who is facing re-election, facing a conservative electorate and willing to knife vulnerable in his state for political advantage.
decided to veto this legislation under pressure from hollywood. a whole bunch of production companies said they would not produce films in georgia anymore if this was passed into law. north carolina's just beginning to come under the assault that's going to come under from activists and corporations and businesses. people will not move to a state where they're not allowed to use the bathroom. >> talk for a moment about how much these forces have focused on the bathroom as the kind of site of this political battle? >> they're just repackaging old crap in a brand new bag. they would scream about men
going into bathrooms raping boys, seducing men. they are straight men in dresses and the whole goal undergoing this transition is to have access bathrooms to prey upon women and girls. as we have this fight, we will win this fight. it's important to remember that every time we have an anti-gay marriage referendum pass, we saw the needle move in the direction of marriage equality. it forces the national conversation about who transpeople are and who are the predators in restrooms. there's many incidents of people being assaulted by straight men.
not by transwomen. >> as someone said on twitter, you've already used the bathroom with a transperson and you were fine. thanks. up next, it's time for the reckoning. who is the blame for donald trump? do not go anywhere. (gasp) shark diving! xerox personalized employee portals help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing?
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a list of people who have been blamed for the rise of donald trump is pretty darn long. it includes jeb bush, franklin roosevelt. somehow the bulls team. many put the blame on the media writing television handed trump the microphone without fact checking him. gop elite lost its voters to trump by ignoring their economic frustrations. what do you think of media argument? >> i think that media didn't help anything. i'm not here to accuse you. i think that the republican party did this and done it slowly over decades. i believe that lee attwater started it. i believe that newt gingrich
gave us the tone and call your opponents bizarre. i think carl rove gave us this divide the elites and pander to that base and make them as big and powerful. no one realized they would swallow everything whole. donald trump, if he weren't who he is. chris christie tried this. he's real good at it. >> i think a lot of these theories can be true at once. >> it's a over determined phenomenon. >> some are upset about trade. some have these racist impulses that donald trump is finally letting them let out. we can't let the voters off the hook. everybody has impulses they try to resist and you're not supposed to eat the second donut. donald trump is really good at
convincing people to be bad. he's built his whole career on this. you're not supposed to cover everything in brass. you're not suppose to go around bragging about hoump money you have. donald trump does these things. i think he's found weakness in the voters as an institution themselves. >> i guess i'm taking up for the purpose of the media is to blame. he has been covered more than any other candidate by margins that are very difficult to find precedent for. lots of that has been intensely negative. look at his favorables. he's like deeply unpopular. he's 30 points under water. >> the question who created
president trump than who created this phenomenon of donald trump now. >> of course they would blame the media. >> they're not responsible for majority of country wanting to vote for him because the majority does not want to vote for him. >> in angry conversations i've had with viewers, i think a good analog is like kim kardashian. she's famous for being famous. at a certain point she's doing something. >> she's a businesswoman. >> there's part of that with trump. >> the same people that say the media created trump, these are people who look at that coverage and see trump as self-evidently
awful and every minute he talks, he looks worse. if you showed somebody the new segments, people would assume this coverage is destroying him. the voters don't trust any institutions, including the media. >> that's why fact checking doesn't matter. the person pointing it out is not a trustworthy person. >> there's this way in which there's this way he's hacked a certain part of the competitive environment that people needs new things. he creates new things. that creates attention. if the goal is to manipulate attention, he's done that well. i don't think the competitive news media has done any job of resisting that. there's some part of them thinking. >> to the point of thinking the news media is entertained based. you got to put it on him.
>> the other important thing is he's not always wrong. a number of big stinks has been him saying things that people say aren't true. he's staked out a position on immigration that i quite disagree with but represents -- >> there was actual demand and appetite for. >> yes. >> it was not being articulated that way by anybody else. >> if somebody found a less extreme way -- >> build the dang fence. we ignored it. we were like that's cute. he did it. >> thanks for being with me tonight. rachel maddow show starts now. good evening. >> what did the buffalo bills do? >> it's a long story. google that and you'll get some great photos of him in very '80s, pants.
it's a great photo. google it. >> i'd be happy you're blaming that than the media. i'm going to say that's my choice. thanks to you as home for joining us this hour. on monday nights, i'm used to saying thank you for joining us on this blah blah, blah eve. monday has become the eve of things whether it's the eve of super tuesday or sec tuesday or super western primary tuesday night. i've gotten into a groove where every monday night it's the eve of some important election that's going to take place in the presidential race on tuesday. this is tonight, in fact, the first tuesday eve, sorry, tuesday eve/monday night since