tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC April 2, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT
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hey there, everyone! i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york, the place for politics. bringing you live pictures right now of the state in racine, wisconsin, where donald trump will hold a rally any time now. his return to wisconsin comes after a break from the campaign trail amid fallout over comments about abortion. he is once again clarifying his comments during an interview that will air on cbs's "face the nation" tomorrow. >> was asked as a hypothetical, hypothetically, hypothetically. the laws are set now on
abortion, and that's the way they're going to remain until they're changed. >> all right. meanwhile, an hour from now, ted cruz will deliver the keynote address at the north dakota republican party convention. at some point this weekend, all those in attendance will vote on 28 unbound delegates. on the democrat side, hillary clinton and bernie sanders will cross paths at the wisconsin dems party dinner tonight, and it comes at a time of increased tension between both parties after clinton called sanders a liar for accusing her campaign of taking donations from the fossil fuel industry. sanders has demanded an apology, but clinton campaign says they are not going to issue one. the latest polls out of wisconsin show a close election for both democrats and republicans. sanders leading clinton by just five points, cruz leading trump by ten points. and again, keeping an eye on that stage, donald trump will be speaking to those voters, kicking off one of three events scheduled for today. nbc's kerry sanders is in
racine, last check inside that auditorium there. kerry, with another welcome to you, i know you spoke with some people in the crowd and you spoke to one person who was still undecided. do you have a sense of how many folks there are trump supporters versus those who are either curious or trying to figure out which way they're going to lean? >> reporter: well, you know, the majority of the people who are here at the civic center to hear donald trump speak -- and he could be taking the stage, as you noted, any minute now -- are, of course, donald trump supporters, but it would be wrong to assume that everybody in here is a donald trump supporter based on my conversations with folks. some people here say that they've come just for the historical moment, to see it, and they're not really going to be involved in politics. they just want to kind of see the show. others say that they're here, as you noted to sort of still make up their mind, and i think that's, of course, important. a lot of people think that this far into the primary season that perhaps people have already made up their mind, but as the candidates go from state to state, they're still trying to determine who they're going to vote for.
in some cases, not always, but in some cases, endorsements seem to matter. and here in wisconsin today, former u.s. senator bob casten has decided to endorse donald trump. of course, he served in the u.s. senate from 1981 to 1992 and has played a long, important role in the state. for those who have lived here a long time, this endorsement may mean something. another endorsement, of course, is that of sarah palin. sarah palin is expected to be traveling here with donald trump at all three stops in the state today, and she was there at the fish fry, which is a big political event in wisconsin, on friday. and this is what she had to say. >> i felt a lot of seriousness, which is really good, you know, in a presidential race at this stage. that seriousness is, for me, it's appreciated. i respect that. >> did they respond well, i think? >> well, i think so. i didn't get booed, you know. >> reporter: so, what we have
here today is not so much of a rally as we have a town hall. you can see the folks have actual chairs to sit in. they can take in with a little less of the fervor, perhaps, that you see when people are crowded into a location where they're just standing and cheering. but we may also have the opportunity to hear some folks from the crowd here ask donald trump some questions. and i suspect based on just some of the casual conversations i've had with folks here, one of the questions will be about his evolving position on abortion rights or the abortion issue, because it seems within just a week, he has made several conflicting statements, and those conflicting statements have left some here wondering, where does he stand on abortion? and were he to be elected president, what would he do on the abortion issue? alex? >> kerry, you keep your eyes closely trained on that podium and listen for us. we'll do as well in the control booth and we'll get about you to you. protesters have become no stranger to the trump rallies
and tremaine lee has been speaking with some of them outside of trump's events. you heard from three women, i believe all from the same family, and they were very good at expressing their opposition to donald trump. what else are you hearing? >> reporter: i'll tell you what, alex, the doors at the civic center have closed. you see a couple dozen protesters. you mentioned the family over here. their father is a mexican business owner. note to trump. arian, it's a cold day out here, but what brought you out to protest donald trump? >> well, i understand that there are people in this community who line up to go see donald trump and hear the hate, but we believe that hate is not an american value and it's not a value for our community. we just want to make sure that the world knows that. >> reporter: the hate, rhetoric is one thing, but are you feeling is kind of rippling down into the community at all? >> i haven't noticed anything
specifically here. luckily, things were fairly peaceful today, but it seems to be tapping into something that was already there, the racism, the zone phobia. and we just want to make sure that everyone knows that we don't believe in those things. >> reporter: i'll tell you what, alex, if anything, the broad coalition that is standing together, whether they're from the latino community, muslim groups, women's groups, feminists, black, white, they're all coalescing around this idea that they have to stand up to trump and the message that so many find not only as fearful, but also dangerous. alex? >> okay, tremaine lee, thank you very much. and we have a guy fawkes mask there behind you. thank you. appreciate that. we'll go to eau claire now, where at any minute, bernie sanders will be taking the stage. the democratic candidate is making his way throughout the state today with stops first in eau claire and then on to milwaukee. and nbc's kelly o'donnell is at sanders' first campaign stop of the day at the university of wisconsin there. with a good day to you, kelly,
what are supporters telling you? >> reporter: well, what we're hearing right now is a lot of excitement. there are many people outside trying to get in. and this sort of arena is filling up. you'll hear the cheering. and for many here, wisconsin opens up a possibility that could expand what bernie sanders has been able to do in this race, because we know what the polling shows. this is a college town, a college setting, one of the sort of core groups that brings in his support. so, that's part of what's happening now. but you know, alex, there's also been increased tension between the sanders and clinton campaigns. what is normally always a really tough struggle in a primary between campaigns has been different through much of this season between the clintons and sanders camps, because they have these common voters that ultimately they want to have to unify for november. so, for much of the season, there was certainly outward respect. bitter fight, of course, in terms of the issues, but more personal respect. things have taken a bit of a
turn over two big issues -- one, the clash over the donations from people employed by oil and gas. there was a greenpeace activist who challenged hillary clinton. she sort of barked back, was very aggressive in saying that the clinton team was not representing her record properly. the sanders team is saying she needs to apologize because they represented the facts correctly. so, that's been brewing. and today the news is that there's a fight over another debate. we've seen lots of debates in this season, but bernie sanders' team, the candidate himself wants one more shot to have a debate, especially before the new york primary, in many ways a common home for both. he's brooklyn-born. she was the senator from new york. and there is a back-and-forth between the campaigns, saying we offer dates, they refuse. the other side saying we offered dates, they refused. a lot of tension about coming together for that. part of the excuse, they say, is the basketball that's going on. they want to have eyeballs watching the debate, not watching the final four. but all of that comes down to a
sense that there is increasing tension among the candidates themselves, the campaigns. everybody's tired, and certainly, supporters. so, it's an interesting time to be watching this democratic side and the energy that is on both sides. and here at bernie sanders' event today, we expect to see that in full. the crowd that's been assembled here has been shouting, doing their bernie thing. and at the same time, the mechanics of a campaign, the real political warfare, that's heating up, too. alex? >> which means it's a very busy day there in wisconsin. thank you very much, kelly o'donnell. appreciate that. well, on the heels of kelly's report, let's bring in political journalist erin mcpike and steven shepard, campaigns and elections editor for politico. with a welcome to you both, steven, i'll start with you here, because you reported today that the trump campaign is scaling back corey lewandowski's role as he faces charges for allegedly grabbing a female reporter at a recent rally. how damaging could this be to donald trump, this kind of discord within the campaign? >> well, look, any time when
campaigns get down to crunch time, and now we're at the stage with wisconsin and new york, two really big tests for the trump campaign and then later into april into some other northeastern and middle atlantic states where he needs to do well -- any time your campaign is unsettled, that can be troubling. donald trump's never run, though, a conventional campaign. he doesn't run conventional advertising. his campaign doesn't do the conventional kind of polling that other campaigns do and message testing. so, you know, it's a little unclear. it's always been a very insular cam pin. and so, in some ways, i think that does raise the stakes for discord within the campaign. >> as you know, though, trump is publicly standing behind lewandowski and he's been trashing the reporter, michelle fields. do you think we're going to see fallout from this among women voters at the polls, especially when it's piled on to what he said about abortion earlier this week? >> i think you are seeing some of that. first of all, donald trump's image rating with female voters more broadly, not just republicans, is terrible. roughly two-thirds of them have an unfavorable opinion of donald
trump. and if that rises among female republicans, that makes it more difficult for him in wisconsin, in new york, in pennsylvania, in maryland, in connecticut and all of the states that are going to vote this month. he's always run better with men than with women in all 17 states where we've had exit polls or entrance polls. donald trump has done better with men than women. that said, he can only afford to lose so much support before he falls behind ted cruz and john kasich in some of these states. >> all right. well, speaking of falling behind, erin, i want to talk about wisconsin with you, because trump is lagging behind about ten points with ted cruz in the lead there. there's not that much time left to change that before tuesday's primary. so, interpret what it means if trump loses wisconsin. >> well, i think any way you slice it, we are very likely going until june with this republican primary, and most likely, to the convention at this point. there is a chance that donald trump could lose wisconsin and then continue to win some of the states later in the calendar and just barely get over that 1,237
threshold delegate level that he needs. he does have a plurality of republican support in a number of these states and overall in the republican primary electorate nationwide. so, he's doing well, but he has fallen behind. and what's been so striking to me is how badly he has messed up in a couple of ways in the last couple of weeks because he also a couple of weeks ago was beginning to show that he got the point that he needed to be more presidential. i also know that he has been talking to a number of high-level republican strategists having one-on-one meetings with them and trying to build out his campaign a little bit more, and some of those strategists have said to me that one on one he is very thoughtful, he knows exactly what he's doing. it's just not translating on the campaign trail right now. >> i'm curious, steven, as your publication is reporting this week that more than 100 delegates are prepared to ditch trump on the second ballot at the gop convention in july, should it be a contested convention. if that happens, what is next? i mean, is that an opening for
ted cruz or someone else? >> well, i think that will be determined over the next couple of months and how ted cruz and john kasich do in the states that are yet to vote. it's a huge danger for trump. erin mentioned that 1,237 delegate threshold. that's a majority of delegates on the first ballot. if donald trump can't get there, the people who are likely to be delegates on the convention floor in cleveland are not going to be people who are going to be predisposed to support donald trump. that's what we found this week. i think when some of the delegates are chosen in other states, once we know who they are, i think you'll find also that a lot of them are not predisposed to support trump. so, trump is going to find it very difficult. if he can't get to 1,237 between a combination of bound delegates and then enough of the unbound delegates who go in, if he can't get there on the first ballot, it's difficult to imagine him getting there on the second or third or subsequent ballot. >> erin, in latest general election matchup polls, ted cruz
performed significantly better than hillary clinton than donald trump does. how do you explain stha that? >> it may be that trump is losing more women than ted cruz is. i don't think those numbers reflect what would be happening necessarily in october. i've talked to a lot of people who believe that donald trump could very well win a general election, even though hillary clinton, it was reported this week that she thinks she would win in a landslide. i think as we got further into general election season, ted cruz would dip further into a general election matchup with hillary clinton. he is not the least bit popular. and i can see a lot of independents flipping to hillary clinton. so, i don't think the polls this far out for a general election match up are really any reflection of reality. >> but i'm curious, erin, because the remaining primaries, mostly in less religious states, not traditionally cruz's best territory -- do you think he can hold on to a wisconsin edge, should he win and carry that in terms of momentum through those races? >> i don't, and that's -- john
kasich, of course, is staying in this race because he believes he will do better in those eastern states. i don't think that ted cruz has the best shot in states like new york and new jersey and some of the others. i think kasich has a better chance than ted cruz in some of those states. i do think we'll see donald trump punching back and probably come back up. when he has dipped in the polls, he's found a way to climb back up, and i'm sure we'll see that from him. on the democratic side of things, though, as we're looking at sanders coming on stage there in wisconsin, you know, it would be astounding at this point, i think, if sanders loses wisconsin, but the thing i would point out is that the clinton campaign, while not spending a ton of money in wisconsin, they're spending an awful lot of time doing a lot of work in new york, whereas that should be a really easy state for her. and i think that's something that we should also be watching in the next couple of weeks. >> all right. erin mcpike and steven shepard, thank you so much. erin, you took us right where we're going to go. let's go to bernie sanders in
eau claire, wisconsin, at that podium. here he is. >> a poll in wisconsin had us in your state 19 points ahead of donald trump. [ cheers and applause ] we have won six out of the last seven caucuses and primaries, and with your help and a large voter turnout on tuesday, i believe we're going to do just fine here in wisconsin. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and new infrastructure for a new generation attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in rochester, with world-class botox. and in buffalo, where medicine meets the future. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today - at business.ny.gov
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obviously, wisconsin is ground zero right now with neither front-runner in either party expected to win. one republican rite of passage in that state, the fish fry held last night in milwaukee, where normally only one gop candidate gets top billing, but not so this year. take a listen. >> i'm proud to tell you that i'm endorsing ted cruz to be the next president of the united states! >> wisconsin is a battleground. >> you want to fix your schools? you want to make sure that your kids are getting the skills they need? then go do it. don't wait for somebody else in madison or somebody down in washington to come. you do it. >> our trade treaties, today they're not even enforced. they're kind of a joke. >> let me bridng in charles benson, affiliate wtmj in milwaukee. with a big welcome to you, can you put into words the mood there? what it, tense, is it exciting,
is it both in what's it like? >> well, i think it's exciting. you know, we're going to see a weekend of hardball politics here, and then on monday we're going to see baseball, the opening season here and the closing arguments from the candidates. and then they're going to vote on tuesday. so, there's a lot going on here. but what is interesting is what sort of message will wisconsin voters send the rest of the country? and we have a pretty good track record here of sort of going with the nominee that eventually becomes the person who represents the republicans or the democrats. and right now, though, wisconsin voters, if the polls are right, wisconsin voters are saying they don't like either of the front-runners. they're looking at ted cruz and bernie sanders for right now. the question is, will it be sort of a subtle message coming out of wisconsin or a megaphone message? >> i want to take that even further, charles, because with ted cruz leading in wisconsin, state insiders have said it's really more like a protest vote. do you have that sense?
>> reporter: it does apparently seem to be that. you know, i think wisconsin voters, at least on the republican side, when they were looking who was going to be here on april 5th, they were looking, if they were not going to be a trump supporter, they were either looking at ted cruz or marco rubio. and when you look at the marquette law school poll that came out, the big change, even before governor walker's endorsement, ted cruz had doubled his numbers in the milwaukee media market. and then up in green bay, nearly double. and almost queue draadrupled in rest of the state. so, clearly, he's benefited from the fact that the others are not here. john kasich, though, was with him last night. he's still holding out hope that he can win a few delegates coming out of wisconsin and still push this thing to an open convention. >> you mentioned governor scott walker, who's extremely popular there in wisconsin. how do you measure the influence of his endorsement of ted cruz? >> reporter: well, clearly, he's very popular among republicans. and so, it was significant that
he ended up backing ted cruz. and what is also interesting is to watch the dynamics here with donald trump, who really came in this state and started trashing the governor on his record and even the fact that he rides motorcycles, which is the home state of harley-davidson right here in milwaukee. so, it seems somewhat odd, a big gamble there for donald trump, but he was betting on the fact that he's going to go for those who aren't in scott walker's camp right now. but for cruz, it is significant because when you look at wisconsin republicans and they look at the battles they have faced, including scott walker, they stood with him in the recall. he's the only governor in the country to ever win a recall. so, they're going to stand. republicans are going to stand with other republicans and conservatives. keep in mind, in this state we have a conservative governor, a conservative legislature, they control both houses, and a conservative high court. so, it's made for a conservative candidate. >> can you give me a general description of a trump supporter
and the level of tolerance that they have for his missteps? >> reporter: well, it's hard to sort of characterize all of that, but when i was at the trump rally down in janesville, two things happened there. he talked about -- he brought up governor walker. and within that crowd -- keep in mind, janesville, wisconsin, is the home turf for speaker paul ryan. when he brings up the name scott walker, there were boos, okay? but even more surprisingly, he brought up -- he brings up paul ryan's name and he hears boos again, and that surprised him. he said, "are you guys republicans?" and they said yes. but when i talk to voters, what they see is a guy who is going to change things. they believe he is a winner or he's going to get the country back to winning. and they're tired of what they say republicans not getting the job done, at least in washington. >> all right, my nbc family colleague james benson, thank you for the conversation. appreciate it. bernie sanders has had
trouble winning the african-american vote, but there are new indications that it could all change on tuesday in wisconsin. we're exploring that next. (vo) if you have type 2 diabetes, you may know what it's like to deal with high... and low blood sugar. januvia (sitagliptin) is a once-daily pill that, along with diet and exercise, helps lower blood sugar. januvia works when your blood sugar is high d works less when your blood sugar is low, because it works by enhancing your body's own ability to lower blood sugar. plus januvia, by itself, is not likely to cause weight gain or low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). januvia should not be used in patients with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. tell your doctor if you have a history of pancreatitis. serious side effects can happen, including pancreatitis which may be severe and lead to death. stop taking januvia and call your doctor right away if you have severe pain in your stomach area which may be pancreatitis. tell your doctor right away and stop taking januvia if you have an allergic reaction that causes swelling of the face, lips,
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here, there, everywhere. united states postal service priority: you and there is bernie sanders right now doing a rally, speaking to supporters at the university of wisconsin in eau clai claire. and right now, he leads hillary clinton in that state, but to win african-american voters could be key. joining me, democratic strategist and executive director of the american federation for children, kevin shavis. and kevin, with a big welcome to you, i first up want to say that you have not endorsed a candidate. >> no. >> but continuing here, bernie sanders, he holds a slim lead, five points or so in wisconsin. he is gaining ground in new york. do you think his wisconsin lead is giving him momentum in the state where i am now? >> well, it's undeniable that bernie sanders does have momentum. he's won several states. he will win wisconsin, it looks
like, but what's really fascinating, if we do a bit of forecasting, alex, is that the democratic nomination will probably be decided this month for all intents and practical purposes in new york, pennsylvania and maryland. in each of those states, there's a large african-american vote population to be considered. and bernie sanders will win wisconsin in part because he has appealed to one of the three major segments of the african-american voting base, and that is the young voters. wisconsin's a large college state, and african-american voters really are drawn to him. but the other two segments are more challenging. first of all, the older african-american voters, they love the clintons. there's trust there. there's a big loyalty factor. but i think that bernie sanders, if i were advising him, he has a real opportunity with that 30 to 40-something, you know, segment, the parent age group. and that's why i think that if he would turn his attention to some of those issues that
represent the most important things in their day in a life, so to speak, like education, for instan instance, it would make a tremendous difference in those states, and i think that ultimately is going to decide who gets the nomination. >> so, you talk about the youth vote, which bernie sanders certainly seems to have captured. what about hillary clinton? as you know, she's working really hard to attract the african-american vote there in wisconsin. she's been on stage with glen moore, the only african-american congressman, held events in milwaukee, but is still trailing sanders. what do you think she's doing wrong? >> well, i think that the newer generation, the young folks of all colors and even african-american, they don't have the same ties to the old ways. they don't want to hear the sound bites. they want more meat on the bones. and i think they're more excited about someone who touches a cord that they can respond to. for instance, this whole idea of the economy and the wealth
generation and the corporate greed, i mean, that's something that really resonates with african-american young people. and also, when bernie sanders talks about black lives matters, a lot of young folks feel like he's serious and means it. it doesn't sound like a sound bite. on the other hand, i think if you look at what clinton is trying to do in terms of reaching out to that demographic, people don't feel like that it's genuine, and there's some mistrust there. i do think, though, that that 30 to 40-something age group -- think about it, alex, a lot of those folks, the working-class and lower working class african-american folks, the bus drivers, the sanitation workers, food service providers, those folks have to deal with issues like where we send our kids to school every day, you know, how come i can't get my kid into a better school, and the old sound bite about more money for education and we're going to support common core or whatever. that doesn't resonate. and i think in states like maryland and new york and pennsylvania, those are bedrock issues that could make a
difference. and if bernie sanders were to take a stand where he talks about he's more open to the issue of school choice or charter schools -- look, bernie sanders had a rally in new york the other day where he had 18,000 people. well, the charter school movement, led by success academies, had the same number of people, largely african-american in new york, and being in new york, you all know that this is a big issue. i think this is an opportunity for him. he needs to tap into it. >> so, would you say when i look at what hillary clinton did in south carolina, having won the african-american vote by 80% and then you look at the state of michigan where she won that vote by 60%, do you think wisconsin more closely reflects the ideals of michigan than south carolina? >> to a point. look, as is the case with all demographics, enthusiasm matters. and i think in south carolina, you had an older, more established african-american voter who was enthusiastic about expressing their loyalty to the clintons. i do believe going forward, though -- and the young folks, the black, young folks, similar
to other young folks, have been more enthusiastic about supporting bernie sanders. that 30 to 40-something group that is dealing with everyday life, if there's a way to tap into some enthusiasm, get them fired up, i think that will make a difference. >> all right, kevin chavous, thanks for making a difference on our show with this conversation. appreciate it. >> thank you. straight ahead, why is donald trump being called a zombie candidate and who is the trump supporter saying he looks like he's full of himself? anage. except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. and when i finally told my doctor, he said humira is for adults li me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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in the world around you. don't you dare change the rules. don't you dare play with your food. don't you dare get any big ideas. ignore what people say you can't do. don't you dare take that apart. don't you dare stay up all night on the computer. don't you dare raise your voice. ♪ ♪ welcome back to "msnbc live." i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york, the place for politics. and we're about to give you a live picture of bernie sanders, who has just kicked off a rally in eau claire, wisconsin. we've got to get that picture a little more clear for you there. looks like it's frozen up. but at any moment now, donald trump will hit the stage about four hours or so east of eau claire for a rally in racine. trump and sanders are each holding three events in the state combined with the candidates who will be holding a
total of ten events today. trump's events in wisconsin come on the same day that politico's reporting that the role of his campaign manager, corey lewandowski, is shrinking behind the scenes. that's according to unnamed sources close to the trump campaign. this report comes days after lewandowski was charged with battery for grabbing a breitbart reporter during a campaign event last month. for more, jacob rascon is in rothschild, wisconsin, where there will be a trump rally later on. let's first stalk about this lewandowski report. what are you hearing, jacob? >> reporter: this would be a big deal, partly because of how fiercely trump defended lewandowski, said that he's always loyal to his people. he came out very strong in support of corey lewandowski, even going after the reporter. this report from politico now says that partly because of what happened with that reporter that his role in the campaign will be shrinking and that the newly named convention manager will now be taking a larger role, not
only in the convention, of course, but also in the primaries that are to come. now, this is according to several sources within the trump campaign, but this is not something that nbc news has confirmed. so, according to politico, corey lewandowski's role will be shrinking and paul manaford and others will be taking a larger role going forward. we'll see what happens. >> yeah. jacob, i've got to tell you, my executive producer said in my ear that there's a lot of stuff going on there and that it's almost like a rock concert. there's so much paraphernalia behind you, people selling hats and t-shirts and buttons and everything. do you agree with that? >> reporter: yeah, this is not unusual at trump rallies. we always have vendors. and in fact, you're going to look at some of this material here. and the vendors come from all over the country, and many of them have been following trump for months. and some of them, in fact, don't support trump, they just do this because of the wages. and others didn't support trump
initially but ended up supporting him because they ended up listening to him and they like him. and others are just big supporters. very interesting storey with these vendors. then of course, as you walk into the event, there's big music, everybody has their signs, they're cheering. it is like a rock concert in some ways. >> okay. well, rock on, jacob rascon. >> reporter: do you want to see the table? >> yeah, sure, take a look. i see a mask. that can be rather unsettling, but the rest of it. >> reporter: make america great again, and then you have a lot of things that we won't show on tv because you have some swearing on some of these shirts. >> ooh, yeah. >> reporter: some of them talk about hillary, "hillary for prison" in fact, is one of the more popular shirts, according to some vendors. in fact, it's the most popular button, apparently, is the "hillary for prison" button. that's what they really like here. >> oh, my. okay. jacob rascon, thank you for that. all this boils down to trump versus the anti-trump forces. let's bring in msnbc political analyst elise jordan with a good
day to you, elise. let's talk about the cruz campaign, first of all, which is counting on this wisconsin primary win, up by nine, ten points at this point ahead of donald trump. but former wisconsin representative scott kluge says that cruz's support in wisconsin is more about stopping trump than any particular love for candidate cruz. i want you to listen to what he told me earlier today. >> i think what's going on in wisconsin is the cruz surge is largely in the southeast corner of the state driven by the establishment in the state and driven by talk show hosts in milwaukee. and i don't think this is any great surge of love for ted cruz. i think what this is is wisconsin's leadership trying to slow down donald trump, so there's a brokered convention and so paul ryan can be the nominee. >> what's your reaction to scott kluge? >> well, i think there's some truth to what he's saying about the surge in support for cruz being less about cruz than just the stop trump effort. and that's what i feel like has been the problem all along with the effort to slow trump's
momentum, because there hasn't been an alternative offered that people have been really excited about. so, yes, ted cruz may be doing well in wisconsin. i think he will win wisconsin, but i don't think that you're really seeing the establishment coalescing around him the way that he had probably hoped. >> okay. let's take a look at this "the new york times" headline -- "gop fears trump as zombie candidate, damaged but unstoppable." and we'll go further in here and look at what supporter newt gingrich told "the new york times" -- "none of the mistakes have been forced and nobody forced him to react negatively," mr. gingrich said. "it's almost as though he is so full of himself that he can't slow down and recognize that being president of the united states is a team sport that requires a stable personality, that allows other people to help him." do you agree with that? >> i agree with what speaker gingrich said, and i think that he really nailed it by saying that trump doesn't seem to realize that his personality as
one person alone, that isn't going to be enough for him to win the white house. and he really does need to get a team around him that's a serious team and that isn't as focused on, you know, stopping reporters who are at press conferences for donald trump and is actually focusing on the hard work of organizing delegates, and that's what going forward is going to be trump's huge challenge. it seems unlikely that he's going to make it to 1,237 delegates and clinch the nomination before the delegation. and cruz will have a total advantage just because he does have a strong organization, and it's going to be interesting to see how the delegate fight plays out there. >> well, and to add to your last point here, the votes for trump could end up becoming votes for someone else. all this will be playing out at the convention. elise jordan, thank you very much. see you again soon. >> thanks for having me, alex. >> unbound delegates may make or break the republican race. you may have heard of delegates or superdelegates, but what exactly is an unbound delegate? to clear things up, let's go to
fargo. > north dakota, the site of the convention. jacob soboroff is the delegate hunter. it's been an inspiration and an education today so far. give us more of that, explain what this is, unbound delegates. >> reporter: alex, one man who might help explain that to us is former u.s. senator gordon humphrey, who is here looking for these delegates on behalf of john kasich, the governor of ohio. governor, thanks for being here. these delegates are not bound -- senator, thanks for being here. these delegates are not bound to anyone, and your mission is to recruit them to come over to governor kasich. what is your strategy for recruiting these unbound delegates? >> well, you know, in politics as elsewhere, everything is relationships, everything is human relations, so our goal is as simple as it is important, that is to get to know the delegates as friends and find out who's for john kasich, who's leaning that way, what they plan to do on the second ballot and so on. >> reporter: do you think this
process is undemocratic? you say it's a hell of a process, hell of a way to pick a president and a governor. >> well, i was referring to some of the rock music that's playing here. look, all of these delegates are elected by one process or another. there's no process that's perfect, but this is democracy, and it's, yeah, it's democratic. >> reporter: all right. senator gordon humphrey of new hampshire, appreciate it. back to you, alex. >> okay. thank you so much, jacob. i know we're having trouble with your picture, but thank you as well to your guest. so, why would a driver's license fear in wisconsin play a role in helping some 300,000 people cast a vote on tuesday? we're going to answer that. and as we go to break, here's sarah palin introducing donald trump in racine, wisconsin. >> well, it's not going to do them any good. so, who is the candidate who doesn't rely on the paid, political hacks for advice? he relies on the strong, confident women in his life, like his daughter. who is that? donald trump. who is the only candidate -- is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student?
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the polls on tuesday, for the first time, they will have to bring a valid i.d. with them, and that is because residents are now required to show a driver's license or other approved forms of i.d. in order to cast a ballot, and that's resulting in long lines today at dmvs. msnbc's tony dokoupil is inside one of those locations for us in madison. so, let's talk about the mad dash to get a valid i.d. in wisconsin. what's it like? >> reporter: hey, alex. yeah, there have been about 135 new i.d.s or renewed i.d.s issued today. those are i.d.s that allow people who get them to finally vote on tuesday, and it's a very difficult process for some people. about 300,000 registered voters in wisconsin do not have the proper form of identification to vote on tuesday, so there's a bit of a dash to get it done. we followed one family, matt and jessica hegdahl. they're a young family with a 10-year-old and a 6-year-old. they got up this morning from 30 miles away, made a 30-minute commute here to madison.
they had to pack their kids into the car, pack their kids out of the car, fight the cold, fight the wind, get in here, find their birth certificate, make sure they didn't lose it, make sure they held on to it, brave a 30 or 45-minute line, and35-mind finally get their documentation. the only reason they were able to accomplish what they accomplished today to get the id to vote is because they had help. $70 fee for jessica and matt to have gotten their licenses to vote and they didn't have the money. they are a single-income family. at the moment they were not prepared to pay that fee. they got a donation from vote writers who is helping 300,000 wisconsinites to get the id necessary. it's one organization. it's not going to be able to help everybody by tuesday. this is something we're watching closely because it could have a real impact on the outcome at the ballot boxes group cease these elections. the results come in on election night. we're talking four or five, six-point match-ups and 300,000 people, that is about 9% of the vote here in wisconsin. if those people don't show up,
and they tend to be with one candidate or another, well, that is a major loss and it really could swing this election, alex. >> absolutely. they want to vote. okay. thank you so much. as we go to break, everyone, we're going to take you back to wisconsin where donald trump is addressing a rally there. let's take a quick listen before we go to break. >> and it's been so much. and frankly, the more you do, it's like a free ad. would you like to do a show in i'll do a show. it's like a free ad, long free ad. we're good. okay... what if a million people download the new app? we're good. five million? good. we scale on demand. hybrid infrastructure, boom. ok. what if 30 million people download the app? we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure.
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54 past the hour as we give you a look at donald trump who is speaking there in racine, wisconsin, to a rally. he may be taking some questions. we're going to listen in but get perspective on all the numbers. fred, with a welcome to you. do you see any erosion in donald trump support overall? we can throw up numbers and we know right now that donald trump is behind ted cruz in the state of wisconsin by ten points, according to the latest poll out of fox news.
>> yeah, i think the short answer, yes, some erosion. look, we've always suspected, alex, that as the republican field narrows and we get closer to some of these big states with fewer candidates, that there is a ceiling to trump's support and i think, you know, for the first time in a really big state wisconsin, we're see that come to fruition. >> do you think there's anything that raises a red flag for either the democrats or republicans out of the wisconsin numbers today? >> well, i think, you know, for the democrats, the, you know, again, i think of mrs. clinton and i love the unband delegate stories. mrs. clinton has the advantage in delegates and it's just a matter of time. if sanders keeps winning some of these states, alex, for this narrative that she hasn't locked up the nomination yet. i think for the republicans it's even worse. if trump doesn't win wisconsin he will be unlikely to have the delegates needed to be the nominee and then what happens in
cleveland? i think that's the worst scenario is having a mess in cleveland. you know, obviously helps the democrats and presumably mrs. clinton. >> but big picture here. donald trump is still leading nationally for the republicans. in the latest numbers from pugh, they have him at the top followed by ted cruz, john kasich is third there. but look at the high unfavorable ratings that trump has. i mean, extremely high. two-thirds of all americans in a "washington post"/abc poll view trump unfavorably. how does this compare to past elections? >> i think it's unusual, alex. i'm not sure there's ever been a major candidate nominee that's been so unpopular. the one thing is for a long time donald trump has in some respects defied political gravity. the question is, is starting with the events this week, the wisconsin defeat, will it be time when he comes back down to earth. >> okay, many thanks. good to talk and get your interpretations of the numbers.
that is the wrap of this hour. chris jansing is joining us next from wisdconsinwisconsin. much more ahead for you here on msnbc, the place for politics. i'll see you back here at noon eastern tomorrow. these are the hands that build the machines, the machines that sort, stack and seal. these are the hands that keep private information private. these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. these are the hands that dig for opportunity, identify patterns, and uncover risk. these are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. don't let du and allergies get and life's beautiful moments. with flonase allergy relief, they wont. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls six. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything.
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good afternoon. i'm chris jansing live from the coffee shop in milwaukee, wisconsin. and this afternoon donald trump is back here in this state for what's turning out to be his toughest fight yet in the campaign. he's holding a rally in racine with sarah palin. >> he's going to put it in our hands. he isn't bragging about his ability, though dog gone it he's got the bragging about his own ability to make america great again. he's talking about putting the government back in the hands of the people, we the people. >> later today trump will head north to a