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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  April 7, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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flone. six is greater than one changes everything. this is usually the time when i would say we've got tons more to get to tonight, but turns out you can tell time. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> at this hour last night the democratic campaign for president looked like it was about to explode, but the candidates seemed to take a step back from the brink today. donald trump is running scared, which is why he decided to stop running around the country and stay in new york to defend his home turf and we have video tonight showing that donald trump's problem with women disappears if the woman is actually a man dressed as a woman.
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>> i'm on very friendly territory with new york. >> i love new york. >> everybody now knows we're going to a convention. >> i am going to have great relationships with everybody when it's time. >> are you sleeping? >> well, i haven't started pouring baileys in my sericert yal. >> it's a sillily thing to say. >> this campaign will fight back. >> by far the best person to be president for several reasons. >> you know, a year, year and a half something like that. i love it because it's so convenient. it is the best way to get around. donald trump has a problem with woman, but he doesn't have a problem with men dressed as women if the man is also the
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mayor of new york city. >> you know, you're really beautiful. a woman that looks like that has to have her own special scent. >> thank you. maybe you could tell me what you think of this scent. >> i like that. >> this may be the best of all. oh, you dirty boy. donald, i thought you were a gentleman. >> you can't say i didn't try. >> that was the mayor in his last year as mayor when donald trump found him so attractive. he has been saying nice things about donald trump during the campaign and he spent last new year's eve at donald trump's home and happily corrected campaign contributions so it
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came as no surprise when he was going to meet with ted cruz to discuss the new york primary. this morning a ted cruz spoex man said we've been working to line up a meeting. donald trump believes that when he gives a politician money, he owns that politician. >> you said recently quote when you give they do whatever the hell you want them to do. >> you better believe it. >> so what scifically did they do? >> if i ask them, if i nee them, most of the people on this stage i've given to just so you understand, a lot of money. >> it didn't take donald trump long this morning to get the meeting ncelled forever. a couple of hours after the cruz campaign said they were working on scheduling that meeting, he told the new york post i support trump. i'm going to vote for trump. he said cruz's dumping on new
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york values to score political points rankled him. here is the way ted cruz is explaining to new yorkers now what he means about new york values. >> let's be clear. the people of new york know exactly what those values are wm they're the values of liberal democratic politicians like cuomo, spitzer, all of whom donald trump has supported, given 10s tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years. >> john kasich who is polling behind trump made new york values the theme of his first tv ad in new york. >> in iowa ted cruz sneerd at our new york values. >> i think most people know what new york values are and they're not our values and they're not new hampshire values.
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>> ted cruz divides to get a vote. john kasich unites to get things done. kasich turned his state around with grit and determination, something no something new yorkers should appreciate. >> the trump campaign cancelled a trip to california today. joining me now is our panel. how disappointed are you that he went on the trump train? >> it's not surprising. they have had a relationship for a long time. and i will say this new york values thing really does matter because that's also a big part of gihis brand is new york. it will play in some of the districts that perhaps ted cruz
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was thinking he could get. >> but john kasich is sitting there as a style republican. >> the ad he did today, the tour that he did in the bronx was fantastic. he said i love new york. that's the first rule. if you want to do something here, you have to show -- you may not be a new yorker, but you love new york. that's exactly what he did. again, he faces the same problem as ted cruz. how am i going to pick off a couple of delegates or at least stop trump from getting to 50. this message he made a very good impression on new yorkers unlike ted cruz. >> and when you look at that poll with john kasich in second place at 25%, if you imagine this new york race without him, donald trump might be up over 60%, 60%. >> there's a lot of conversations that ted cruz is asking kasich to jump out and this may be a saving grace for him because new york values may
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not be aligned with ted cruz at all, especially because he's so conservative. if kasich wasn't in the race it would fortify the lead for trump. he's ensuring there's a firewall between the 1237 delegates that trump needs and the republican party convention that's coming up. >> for strong front-runners when the presidential primaries come to their state, they get to leave town. they get to play down the road. they get to play in colorado. they get to play in california when they know they've got their own state locked up. donald trump's looking at that 52% and obviously is not confident in it. >> right. he's coming off a loss in wisconsin. he's way ahead in the polls, but he really -- he really has to win new york, right. if trump were somehow to lose his home state, the state that is identified with his whole
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persona, but i don't think would happen, but it would be catastrophic for his campaign. he's going to -- this is what's in front of him. i think his saving grace is i don't think new york is ever going to be in a ted cruz state of mind. >> there's john kasich and john kasich's on tv. john kasich did well in new hampshire. and then we have this new associated press poll today and this is a national poll on donald trump favorability. he has a 69% unfavorable, a 26% favorable. and susan, it just seems inconceivable that the republicans would send that guy into a general election. >> i couldn't agree with you more, especially when you start looking at what the enconventio is about. we keep talking about this 1237 number but what they're saying
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is if you can't win more than half of the republicans how could you think you can win the county. that's what it's about and that's a narrative you are going to hear more about. donald trump cannot win 50% of republicans. then he shouldn't be the party's nominee. >> where do they go from that? let me put up one more from the associated press. would you vote for donald trump? definitely no. definitely no, won't vote for donald trump. they know it right now tonight. 63% of voters will not vote for him. would consider him 19%, definitely yes, 16%. and you have to wonder, i mean when you're heading to a convention, they're going to be -- those delegates are going to be staring at those numbers. 63% definitely won't vote for him. let's say he doesn't have the nomination locked in. why would any more delegates go in his direction. the polls are going to be better
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for every other republican they can think about. >> tell that to the trump people. there are going to be a lot of trump delegates there. he's going to have more than anybody else probably. he may be close to 1237 if he hasn't already achieved it and then what? i mean does the party make an argument that, sure, while donald trump couldn't get half the republicans -- the republican delegates so we're going to give it to somebody who did less well than donald trump and couldn't get a third or a fourth of the republican delegates? i think that's a heavy lift for the delegates, even as they're staring down the barrel of a general election. that could be historically bad for them. >> it's a less heavy lift every time donald trump says something al enating people. >> i think it's one of the
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reasons why he's doing less one on ones. what he surfaced is his position of how he felt about women and it's not women that got turned off by that statement, but you had fathers and folks saying not this guy. the more he's out there and feels he has basically a free pass is when he starts to basically really disclosing how he feels. that's one of the reasons why he's starting to surround himself with a different type of advisor that is much more politically atuned to what he needs to say to possibly not lose california and so on. so he's becoming -- he's trying and perhaps a little too late trying to be more polished, but it's because he stuck his foot in his mouth. >> some people continue to say paul ryan, speaker of the house, you worked on an effort -- how would you describe it? >> it was an online petition effort to try to get 1 million people to say yes we would
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support paul ryan. >> he asked you to shut it down. >> and then today -- today paul ryan who asked you to shut that down, basically released a commercial for himself. let's look at this. >> what really bothers me the most in politics these days is this notion of identity politics that we're going to win an election by dividing people, rather than inspiring people on our common ideas and culture, on the things that should unify us. we all want to be healthy and we want everybody to succeed. we want people to reach their potential. now liberals and conservatives are going to disagree with that, no problem. that's what this is all about. so let's have a battle of ideas. let's have a contest of whose ideas are better and why our ideas are better. >> that's from a speech he made a couple of weeks ago that we covered the night he did it. what is he doing? he knows that everybody thinks -- there's a lot of talk
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out there saying they might try to go to him for the nomination. you don't put that out now in this climate if you're not trying to fan that talk. >> unless you're also trying to be the grown up in the room within the republican party, which it desperately needs. he has to -- he now potentially may worry about losing seats in the house. he's got a lot of work to continue to do. this is saying i'm the grown up in the room. >> he said it. he gave a speech a couple of weeks ago. why does it look like a commercial for a campaign? >> it's a very nice video. sometimes they do that. >> go ahead. >> if you listen to what he's saying, it sounds very much about barack obama saying that we are all americans at the end of the day. it sounds very presidential and it reminds me of when he said i don't want to be speaker and then he became speaker. i think he's saying if we do need an alternative and nobody's behind the three current front-runners in the republican
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scenarios, no one is behind donald trump, cruz or kasich so he's like if we're going to broker it, it could just be me. >> thank you all for joining me tonight. really appreciate it. coming up, jeffry goldberg is here with his look inside president obama's foreign policy decision making as told to him directly by president obama and we have the late oes in the campaign and how bernie sanders and hillary clinton today stepped back at least temporarily from the brink. sure, we could have stacked these tires. or put them on a rack. but the specialists at ford like to show o their strengths: 13 name brands. all backed by our low ice tire guarantee. yeah, we're strong when it comes to tires. right now during the big tire event, get a $120 rebate by mail on four select tires.
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man 1:man 2: i am. woman: ex-military? man 2: four tours. woman: you worked with computers? man 2: that's classified, ma'am. man 1: but you're job was network security? man 2: that's classified, sir. woman: let's cut to the chase, here... man 1: what's you're assessment of our security? man 2: [ gasps ] porous. woman: porous? man 2: the old solutions aren't working. man 2: the world has changed. man 1: meaning? man 2: it's not just security. it's defense. it's not just security. it's defense. bae systems. it is now being predicted that both donald trump and ted cruz could hurt republican candidates in other races if either of them wins the republican presidential nomination the following
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bernie sanders threw a big shock into the democratic campaign for president last night when he said the thing you are never supposed to say about your opponent in a campaign for the party's nomination. >> she thinks that i am quote unquote not qualified to be president. [ boos ] >> let me -- let me just say in response to secretary clinton. i don't believe that she is qualified if she is -- [cheers and applause] -- if she is through her super pac taking tens of millions of dollars in special interest funds. i don't think that you are qualified if you get $15 million from wall street through your super pac. i don't think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in iraq. >> so the reason candidates in
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the same party never say that the other one is not qualified unless they're running against donald trump is that it is deeply allen nating to all those clinton supporters in this case who bernie sanders is going to need in a general election if he's the democratic nominee and it makes it almost impossible for bernie sanders to endorse hillary clinton if she is the democratic nominee. how can bernie sanders endorse someone who he's said is not qualified to be president. so as tempting as it is to say it, candidates resist it as hillary clinton did when she was invited to say bernie sanders is nodd not qualified. she didn't say bernie sanders is qualified, but she did not say he is not qualified. it would not be unfair to infer that she thinks that bernie sanders is not qualified, but
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she was very careful not to say it. you know the way a secretary of state would be very careful in her choice of words. the democratic campaign could have gone off the rails this morning in new york if hillary clinton said bernie sanders is not qualified to be president or if she demanded an apology and turned the issue of a new york campaign into will bernie apologize. she could have done that. instead she chose to laugh it off. >> bernie sanders seems to think you're not qualified. >> well, it's kind of a sillily thing to say but i'm going to trust the voters of new york who know me and have voted for me three times, twice for senate and once in the presidential primary. i didn't say -- i don't know why he's saying that, but i will take bernie sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. >> and bernie sanders took a
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step back this morning too turning the question of hillary clinton's qualification for presidency back into a maybe. >> when you have headlines in the washington post quote clinton questions whether sanders is qualified to be president, my response is if you want to question my qualifications, let me suggest this that maybe the american people might wonder about your qualifications madam secretary. >> joining us now casy hunt. they diffused the bomb today. >> i don't know about that. i think you also heard bernie sanders bernie sanders lay down the law when he kept going on in that press conference he said i will not be dismissed just because i'm from a small state doesn't mean that i don't know what it's like to play political
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hardball and if you're going to do this to me i'll learn how do it right back. i think it was a warning shot in a wayened a he was reacting to that washington post headline as well as some reporting that the clinton campaign was going to try to disqualify him in the course of running in this new york primary. i think what you saw was really sanders' own personal frustration. the quickest way to get bernie sanders to shut down a line of argument or conversation is to suggest that he doesn't have a right to be there, that he's not -- shouldn't be part of this presidential conversation. i think that's what you saw. people around him have been urging him to go further against hillary clinton for months now and he never has. he's ratcheted up the rhetoric. that's the candidate himself deciding to put his foot down and say i'm going to try to put a stop to that. >> kasie what would going
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further be? >> i think you have seen over the years quite a few very personal attacks levelled at the clintons. i think you've seen donald trump do some of it. that's not part of the democratic fight conversation right now and i don't see any world in which bernie sanders goes there. i mean even this version of it is essentially his stump speech with this criticism added on to it. those are the things he always says. >> thanks for joining us. we're joined now by frank rich, writer at large for new york magazine. frank i want to show you how hillary clinton's tv day is going to start tomorrow morning because it already happened in a pre-tape for the today show. let's watch this. >> came right out and said he doesn't think you're qualified to be president. >> well, that will be up to the voters of new york and the other states that will be passing judgment in the weeks ahead. i think it's kind of a sillily
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statement, but he's free to say whatever he chooses. >> is he qualified to be president. >> well, heere's what i believe i believe voters will be looking at both of us, but i will take bernie sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. >> i thought she handled it brilliantly from the provocation right through to now. >> she has her story now and she's sticking to it since we have the sound bite. i agree laughing it off was the best way to go. also the campaign's unfolding in new york. it's kind of a new york thing to do and keep on moving. the whole thing with the manufactured event to begin with because bernie sanders was wrong. she never quote, unquote said that he was unqualified. a washington post headline writer did, which is an entirely different thing. it's really about nothing. >> also she knows the way this equation works. she knows if she gets the
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nomination she needs bernie sanders supporters who aren't feeling great about her right now so she wants this thing to disappear. >> exactly. she's shown signs in the past week or so of being really exaspirated with sanders and his campaign. she had a moment of you're stop lying about my record kind of moment a week or so ago, but she's gotten past it and she does need them because they're a very energized and very large segment of the democratic base. if they sit home and she doesn't have the turnout, it's a problem even perhaps running against a clown. >> and she's got a very rough general election coming up if she is the nominee. i mean in the history of the fbi and in the history of presidential campaigning, there is exactly one presidential candidate who has been under investigation during the presidential campaign. exactly one. you would never know that if you listened to the bernie sanders campaign. you will know it if you listen
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to the republican campaign against hillary clinton as a nominee. >> absolutely. we also don't know where that investigation is going. even assuming it's relatively benign, it can -- whatever the fbi says or does can be framed by someone like donald trump or ted cruz in a way that's damning to the people who look at the fine print. it's a big issue. >> she compared her anticipated version of running against donald trump to be similar to her experience almost running against rudy for senate in 2000. let's listen to this. >> he would go into from being a tough decision maker into really being a bully. i think i said something like i'm not going to respond to his tantrums. i felt like that was the best way to deal with an opponent who
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would try to drag you on to his turf and then use every advantage he had to really knock you down. there certainly are similarities if i'm the democratic nominee and trump is the republican nominee. >> so she never actually ran against him. he dropped out for health reasons and if you think that rudy was as rough as donald trump is going to be if he's the nominee, we've got something -- we've got news for you. >> exactly. also, if it had happened was so vulnerable on the kind of issues that trump that really the below the belt issues that trump will go after the clintons on and trump -- his marital life and sex life is an open book, however shab bye some of it may be, so he's sort of inokay lated against some of that.
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there's certain superficial similarities, but trump is something else. >> so what is your view of what will happen on the republican nomination? do you think if trump doesn't have the number going into the nomination that they will get nomination delivered to someone else? >> i don't understand how this works because the base -- 70% of the base wants some version of trump or cruz. so how are you going to tell that 70% to not have the guys that they voted for who represent their views. is the establishment really going to bring in a paul ryan and what's in it for paul ryan to have the whole base hate him. >> you know how, the establishment is actually going to be here later in the show. the republican lawyer who runs a lot of these conventions, he's going to tell me how they're going to do it. >> he won't tell you how it's going to go down. >> he won't give me the name of
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the nominee. coming up, donald trump versus president obama on foreign policy. ♪ take on the unexpected. the new 2016 nissan altima. built to stand out. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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here ae's the way it looked today on the campaign trail in new york and pennsylvania. >> let's have a serious conversation. >> the gloves are coming off because there's such a fierce fight right now in new york. >> if you want to question my
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qualifications let me suggest this. >> we have going to have to unify democrats. >> maybe the american people might wonder about your qualifications, madam secretary. >> i don't know why he's saying that. >> are you qualified to be president? >> she didn't actually ever say he wasn't qualified. >> the fact that sanders went where he went with this attack tells you a lot about where his head is. >> of course hillary clinton is qualified. >> there's no plausability to any argument that she's not qualified. >> i'm not going to get baeaten >> the democratic field consists of a socialist with ideas that are dangerous for america and the world and bernie sanders. >> ted cruz and donald trump, they're still locked in a battle here in new york. >> donald trump wants the ticket. >> is this trump country where we are? >> i would have to say yes. >> governor, the results in wisconsin were very tough for you not getting any delegates. does that undercut your argument about going forward to the
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convention. >> these were anti-trump votes more than they were pro-ted cruz votes. here in new york we're now running in second. >> anybody really want to ask me a question of importance. >> i will take bernie sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. >> this is an unusual election. would you admit that? ke? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. wyou could just forget frthe beach wedding... and the beach booty... you could just book a different resort. like in alaska. they've got igloos.
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if it breaks up nato, it breaks up nato. today we have a radical islamic threat, a term our present doesn't want to mention. >> president obama said this resentsly. i believe we have to avoid being simplistic. i believe we have to make sure our political debates are grounded in reality. it's not that i don't appreciate the value of theater and political communications, it's that the habits we have, the media, politicians have gotten into and how we talk about these
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issues are so detached so often from what we need to be doing that for me to satisfy the cable news hypefest would lead to us making worse and worse additides over time. joining me now is the national correspondent from the atlantic. this comes with the extraordinary piece that you've written with access to president obama telling you things like that. i want quick note to viewers, if you read one foreign policy article in your life, read this one. it reads like a book, but i want to get into some of these details here. you can't hold it in your hands and read it and not feel even for revulen for what's being said by donald trump about foreign policy, also ted cruz
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tal talking about carpet bombing. talk about what the president wag was talking about how simplistic the candidates are making this sounds. >> it was kind of an odd experience for me because i was reporting this out as the campaign was reaching full throttle so i'd be having these conversations with the president, which are pretty -- as you can tell are pretty nuance conversations. you might disagree with the conclusions that he reaches after reasoning through these issues, but it's a very -- it's a very mature conversation that i think he's trying to have with the country and then on -- then you have kind of a circus-like atmosphere where you're talking about destroying nato and handing nuclear weapons and building walls. this has no bearing on reality. the analysts would say the
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things in particular mr. trump are saying that these don't have any bearing on the complicated interplay between states that exists today. it doesn't make any sense. >> when you read it, you also have this horrible feeling of how can this thoughtful passage, how can it compete with these sou sound bites and what the president talks about that happens on cable news. >> the shame of it is that this would be an interesting moment because again i want to make this point very clearly. the president reaches certain conclusions about the way the world is organized and america's role in the world and you might disagree with those conclusions and that's fine, but you can see the process of how he's gotten there. what would be interesting would
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be to have a similar debate on the republican side so you can match these things up. you have one person doing it seriously and then this foreign policy national security debate things that are not grounded in reality. >> you talked through with him one of the most controversial moments which is this motion of a red line in syria that he pronounced at a certain point involving chemical weapons, then assad crossed that line, although he was getting intelligence indicating we're not sure whether he crossed the red line. >> they're pretty sure he did. >> ultimately the president that line having been crossed came very close to ordering a military response to that and then went for that hour long walk on the white house grounds. very dramatic description of this where he changed his mind.
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tell us about how that happened and how he worked his thinking through that. >> i think by the time of that walk which was on a friday afternoon august 30th, 2013, i think he had realized by then that he didn't want to do this thing. he didn't want to bomb these sites in syria. the reason -- this is sort of the moment that i described -- i don't know if he would see it this way, as a hinge moment in his presidency where he decided he wasn't going to do the thing that people expected him to do based on what he calls the washington play book. the set of steps that a president is supposed to take if he's provoked by another country. what he basically said to himself was if i continue to go down this path of direct confrontation with the assad regime, this is all i'm going to be doing for the entire second term, i don't want to get consumed by the middle east and also i'm not sure it's going to
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work. by that point he had come to the conclusion that there's very limited -- that america has very limited ability to shape outcomes in the middle east so he saw himself as saying to the world i'm not stepping on the slippery slope. this was controversial and we'll be debating this for years if not decades. that was the moment when he said i'm not going down a path that -- i don't see a good outcome down this path. >> if he took that action, it wouldn't get rid of the chemical weapons, he ended up getting rid of the chemical weapons. >> he was lucky in that sense that vladimir putin comes in and they engineer something that people thought would be impossible, the removal of the chemical weapons from syria. so from the critics' perspective is you made a promise, you vowed to enforce a red line and you didn't so our credibility was
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hurt. from his perspective he got rid of chemical represents from a dangerous country without going to war, which of course you could flip that and say george w. bush went into iraq and had a war. so obama thinks he cos out ahead. >> hillary clinton sharply digreed with him on this and wanted military action and i urge everyone to read this article and you can make your own decision about who was right. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, trump campaign has been doing a terrible job of chasing delegates and you do have to chase them. cruz campaign's been doing a great job. we'll go on a tour of the delegate rules at the republican convention, the first rule being there are no rules. .
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to treat diabetes and should not be used by people with severe stomach or intestinal problems, or people with type i diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. trulicity is not insulin and has not been studied with long-acting insulin. do not take trulicity if you or anyone in your family has had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine oplasia syndrome type 2 or if you arallergic to trulicity or its ingredients. stop using trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of an allergic reaction, such as itching, rash, or difficulty breathing; if you have signs of pancreatitis such as severe stomach pain that will not go away and may move to your back, with or without vomiting; or if you have symptoms of thyroid cancer, which may include a lump or swelling in your neck, hoarseness, trouble swallowing, or shortness of breath. medicines like trulicity may cause stomach problems, which could be severe. tell your doctor about all youredical conditions and any medicines you take. taking trulicity with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase your risk for low blood sugar. common side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, decreased appetite, and indigestion. some side effects can lead to dehyation, which may cause kidney failure.
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with trulicity, i click to activate what's within me. if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar numbers with a non-insulin option, ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. and click to activate your within. a 401(k) is the most sound way to go. let's talk asset allocation. sure. you seem knowledgeable, professional. i'm acally a dj. [ dance music plays ] woman: [laughs] no way! that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. cfp -- work with the highest standard. ...to put in dr. scholl's active series insoles. they help reduce wear and tear on my legs, becuase they have triple zone protection. ... and reduce shock by 40%. so i feel like i'm ready to take on anything.
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we cannot bring back the 29 men we lost. they are with the lord now. our task here on earth is to save lives from being lost in another such tragedy. >> six years ago 29 coal miners in west virginia were killed in a mine explosion. the ceo of the company that owned that mine was sentenced wednesday for conspiring to willfully violate federal mine safety standards. he was sentenced to one year in prison and ordered to pay $250,000 in a fine. coming up, the capacity for intrigue at the republican convention is officially limitless. .. this is where i met your grandpa. right under this tree. ♪ (man) some things are worth holding onto.
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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. donald trump cancelled a rally today where the republicans were in the process for selecting republicans for
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the national convention. ted cruz has a strong operation in colorado trying to get as many delegates as possible. jacob, where are you? what's going on there? >> reporter: this is colorado. this is the center of american politics. tonight albeit incredibly under the radar and that is because the ted cruz campaign is fighting tooth and nail for three unbound delegates coming out of this congressional convention. you know about this because of your conversations. ted cruz is fighting for these to stop trump from hitting the 1237 delegates it will take to win the republican nomination on the first ballot. i can't tell you the last time there was national attention on the congressional district convention in a church in colorado, but we are seeing it here tonight. 6,000 people get together in a
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hockey arena on saturday. unbound delegates are not bound to the will of any voters. in fact, there is no popular vote in the great state of colorado. there used to be a beauty contest in this state and rick santorum won it in the last presidential election and they got rid of it. what the party is doing here now is assigning delegates that will go to the national convention. if trump gets to 1237 on that first ballot he will not have to worry about it, but the cruz kman campaign is putting down slates for. back to you. >> thank you very much. appreciate it. up next, ben beginsburg will explain the republican rules and how they might work against donald trump.
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one of donald trump's long time political advisors roger stone is telling trump supporters that republicans plan to steal the nomination from donald trump. here's what he said earlier this week. we're looking at a very narrow path in wing the king makers go all out to cheat and steal and snatch this nomination from the candidate who is overwhelmingly selected by the vote earth. i have urged trump supporters come to cleveland, march on cleveland. we're going to have protests and demonstrations. we will disclose the hotels and
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room numbers of those delegates who are directly involved in the steal. republican national committee chairman responded last night. >> it's totally over the line. we're going to have $50 million in security. we'll make sure that every delegate is safe. >> joining us now, ben ginsburg. what's your reaction to roger stone for trump supporters to come to cleveland. march on cleveland and attack the oh telhotels that the repub delegates are in. >> i've known roger. it's in keeping with his past pattern and practices. but really i think the chairman is right and that threatening delegates is probably over the line and i'm not sure why it's helpful to his candidate. >> and you see donald trump
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cancelling his trip to the colorado where they need delegates. they're staying in new york where they are worried apparently about how strongly they're going to show in new york. they seem like a campaign that's been unable to do both, unable to deal with the voters and campaign for voters the way ted cruz does and work the delegate side of this. >> he's been very successful at winning voters and winning states. he does have more votes than any other candidate and i think they now realize with the naming of paul matta fort this is a two step process where delegate selection is an important part. so stiechometimes in a campaign you need the planning time to execute down the road, that's what you do. >> ben, this cannot be repeated enough and you've said it many times, there are no rules for
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the 2016 convention. those rules will be written and adopted by that convention. that's their first order of business. >> correct. as a matter of law, a convention needs to pass rules for itself. the 2016 convention can say we want the 2012 rules and we're not going to change a word, but they do have to have an affirmative vote that's what they're going to do. >> you mentioned something the other night about the way a delegate actually -- what they have to do through in actually approving they're with a candidate to the point where every delegate has to actually sign something saying i'm voting for donald trump or ted cruz or whoever it is on that first ballot. >> well, what the first ballot is especially, they're votes will be recorded by the secretary according to the results of the state. what we were referring to and what really is important part of the process is how a candidate gets put in nomination.
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in past conventions they've had to actually sign a petition that says i want this person to be put in nomination. that's the majority of delegates in eight states rule from 2012 and while a delegate may be bound to a candidate for the vote on the first ballot, they're not bound to sign that candidate's nomination petition. >> and which creates an absolutely fascinating scenario because the signature is in effect the vote, about ut rules simply as it's currently written says you must vote, says nothing about you must sign this. >> that's correct. the nominating petitions do not have to be signed by delegates who are bound. what makes it more interesting is that as a just a practical matter it's really tough to get delegates to sign those things before the convention starts because they're spread out all over a state.
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so by tradition those nominating petitions get circulated the night before the convention starts. so it's usually been a pro forma process, tonight on all in. >> if i'm going to be attacked for being unqualified, i'll respond in quiet. >> the democratic race becomes an unqualified brawl. >> look, i don't know why he's saying that. >> secretary clinton responds and the sanders camp escalates. >> really made a deal with the deal and the devil wants his due. >> what this fight means for bernie versus hillary. why bill clinton's clash with protesters could have major impact on the race.

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