tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC April 19, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
edition of hardball. chris matthews live from brooklyn. chris will join bryan williams and rachel maddow for our election coverage. that starts at 8:00 eastern. stay with us. new york values. let's play hardball. live from the foot of the brooklyn bridge. the polls will be closed across the state. donald trump and hillary clinton are looking for big victories tonight. the fight for this state has been the hardest fought of the democratic campaign. for clinton a big victory will clear her path. for sanders, it could prolong
this race to the convention. secretary clinton voted this morning along with her husband, former president bill clinton. last night, secretary clinton said she hoped to win in new york and helper wrap up the nomination. that's the key fraez, wrap up. her fraez, take a look. >> i am hoping to do really well tomorrow. i'm hoping to wrap up the democratic nomination. i got to quickly add that before anybody has the wrong impression. >> wow. nobody got the wrong impression. they know what you meant, you got to wrap it up. she greeted supporters on the streets of midtown manhattan. here is what he said. >> senator, secretary clinton said she would wrap up the whole nomination today.
>> i'm afraid she's going to be mistaken. i think we'll do just fine. >> i'm afraid she's going to be disappointed. i think we'll do just fine. the real clear politics average puts clinton ahead with a comfortable 12-point lead in new york state. the numbers going into tonight's vote 53-41. members of the clinton kpanl insist a win is a win. it would signal as a ruvulnerab. not every city has a speaker who supports hillary clinton. let me go back to you. people can't ask me why is this campaign getting so tough. you're talking about her selling
her soul. these are very personal things. how do you take them back in philly if you have to. >> it's not about taking back but let's be clear. >> you have to. either candidate is preferable to what the republicans have to offer. >> you guys are still fighting the race. tell me why you're fighting it so tough? >> bernie sanders is running for the nomination. hillary clinton is running for the nomination. >> you're trying to knock her head off. >> that's not fair. that's not fair at all. >> so much better. she has to deal with the devil. isn't that pretty direct? >> her campaign is funded by every special interest in this country. >> you keep hitting on the
$200,000 per speech. you even put out the word it was a 20-minute speech. she grabbed the money and ran. you're saying that stuff. >> that's just the facts. the facts are tough. >> you're hitting those regard. >> this is a tough race. she is taking nothing for gra s granted. >> mine is long island and chelsea all together. if you say dog or coffee it really comes out. the sanders campaign can't throw the kind of statements they have thrown out. your statements have gotten more ratcheted up as the secretary gets more and more delegates.
>> what spreads? >> a win. a win brings us closer. >> you think a narrow victory saying the single digit. >> you say you had to win. you said you had to win. >> if she comes out here with single digit win, it's an embarrassme embarrassment. bernie sanders won vermont with 86% of the vote. >> the headline in new york times will be hillary wins, embarrassed. it's not going to be that. >> jeff, you can't flip around on this. you and the campaign and you personally have said 25 or 26 times you need to win. you didn't say you need to lose in single digits. you didn't say -- >> we have no must win statements. you'll not find me having said that even once. >> the campaign said it 25 or 26
times. >> there's no must win statements. if we split delegates here, that's a huge win. >> bernie sanders has been, this has been a tame campaign compared to the general election. >> your guy said he don't do this stuff. >> we don't do it. wait until we get to the general election. >> you accuse her of selling her soul to the devil. >> when all these people give you money, they don't give it to you for something. >> why did they give her 200,000 for the speech? >> i don't know. >> you keep raising it. it's in your ad. why is it an issue? >> why won't she release the speeches? where's the transcripts? >> what's the worst that could be in there? >> there could be nothing. leads you believe there's something.
>> i think the clear answer to your question came up at the debate. when senator sanders was asked to give one clear example of where he saw a campaign contribution leading to a policy position of secretary clinton's, he couldn't answer the question. we can go back and forth here. that spoke volumes. that silence on the senator's part spoke volumes. >> argue with him, not me. >> that's not how money works in politics. >> your candidate couldn't answer the question. give me an example. >> how about the bankruptcy bill that senator warren pointed out that she kept flip-flopping on. >> let's a talk about senator sanders on this gun issue. there's no issue -- >> why do you think he's pro-gun righ rights? >> that's a question he'll have to answer. >> you think he's on the take? >> i would never say that.
>> let me bring in some other voices. she compared sanders to ralph nader suggesting sanders attacks could hurt come november. here's joel. >> it's a desperate false attack by a campaign that is on the brink of losing in a state they said was a must win state for them. i think the real challenge here is senator sanders will stop delivering destructive attacks. is he going to really try to support the party that's in favor of protecting voting right, women rights, economic justice or turn himself into someone who will do what he said he wasn't going to do and be a ralph nader and try to destroy
the democratic party. >> he pledged to support the eventual nominee. it's ridiculous. they don't have anything to say about this whole campaign because they know it's a problem. they go to rich people and say give us a big check. the rest of it goes to the democratic party. what this group does is it hands out money to secretary clinton. they gave her 10 million and the party 5 million. they retained all this money. because secretary clinton gets the first $2700 of every contribution, she gets all of that money even though it's being funded with money given above the $2700 limit. she's getting a loan from the dnc or taking contributions
that's improper. it's one of the two. >> who pays for the food? >> it's supposed to be proportionate. >> this is another example of sanders -- this is another example of sanders campaign having nothing substantive to say. >> weren't you grossed out by that money they raised? they means you have to earn about 600,000 after taxes to sit with george and hillary clinton. doesn't that bother you? >> there's no question that we need to reform campaign finance. the question here is again, why is the sanders campaign throwing out baseless attacks? >> finance reform or do it. >> it's july at the convention. hillary clinton has problems with indictments. >> that's absurd. >> in that happens. subjective here. should joe biden come in and replace hillary clinton as the
nominee of the party? >> i think that's crazy. >> a lot of people are talking joe biden has to come in and save the party. bernie can't win the general. >> bernie is the strongest. >> good luck tonight, both of you. it's great race. >> you need the work on the bas accent, chris. >> coming up, just as hillary clinton is looking to win big in new york, she's is. donald trump has a chance to take all the marbles tonight. all the delegates in the republican race inching him closer to the nomination in cleveland. not as cool as philly. the stop trump forces aren't going down without a fight. this is hardball live from brooklyn, new york.
welcome back. you can see the bridge is right behind me. according to recent polls, new york state is set to give donald trump a major boost. he's leading by double digits in the polls and could score the lion's share. earlier today he picked up the support of former new york mayor, rudy giuliani. >> trump is clearly the best choice. he's the best choice for new york and the country. he can beat hillary clinton. cruz is a straight overhand fast ball for clinton. she'll knock him out of park. trump will have no idea what to
do. democrats have been hitting very right wing republicans like cruz out of ballpark for years. >> pretty smart talk. he didn't admit himself as part of the trump campaign. why the distancing. he said he wouldn't endorse and he is endorsing. he still says i'm not part of the campaign. he made it clear he wasn't fan of the third man in the race. listen to this language. this is what peter king said about ted cruz. you don't hear this often. >> first of all, i am not endorsing ted cruz. i hate ted cruz. i think i'll take cyanide if he ever got the nomination. >> i hate ted cruz. i'll take cyanide if he gets the
nomination. ted cruz has derided new york values. tonight, new york will deliver its response. robert costas national political reporter for the washington post. i want to go to robert costas. i think the message coming out of new york state, without getting into numbers, is that you can't call a place sodom and gomorrah one week and come back and say i love it the next. that's cruz' problem. >> he has started to look forward. new york has never been place where he's really had an opportunity ever since the new york values comment in that debate.
>> last night he accused cruz of hating new york. let's watch. >> tomorrow, we're going to show ted cruz, who hates new york, hates new york. when you look at that debate and see the way he talked about us and new york values, here's a man that turned down sending money for this state and plenty of other money. we had lots of things coming into new york and he voted against. no new yorker can vote for ted cruz. here is what cruz did say about new york values. let's watch. >> i think most people know exactly what new york values are. >> i'm from new york. >> you're from new york, you might not. i promise you in the state of south carolina they do. there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of new york.
every one understands that the values in new york city are socially liberal, pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage. focused around money and the media. >> what do you think of that? >> that's part of the reason why people are disenfranchised with the republican party. this is the party that left us. i was a republican until ronald reag reagan. i'm an independent today. we're the guys that try to get our soldiers out of prison around the world. we're also the ones working on traumatic brain injury for our soldiers. we're working on biofuel. who is he talking about when blaming republicans for having misguided judgment. >> we had to read lonely crowd. it explained how -- i came to
new york in the early 60s. the cab driver said how do you like our fair. how do you like it? some prideful of this city. for this guy, that's what he was doing. he was pandering of the country people. payday tonight, huh? >> the story for me is not ted cruz. the story for me is donald trump here in new york. i ask george pataki, another republican from new york. >> he's for kasich. >> i asked him right after he endorsed kasich, is donald trump a republican? the governor said he's what he says he is that day. the story is there's no trust. >> i'm following through with the governor. the doubt here, this is a republican primary. the doubt is the leader and the doubt is not just in new york. it's across the country.
>> why is he likely to get a huge plurality tonight based upon all the polling? >> i heard him on wabc and she asked him how did he do. he said i hope i do better than 50%. i heard it was going to be a a good night. this is about delegate count coming out of here for the 1237 we're headed to. you know that. it's a new york story. it's a national story. >> i understand. >> robert, what do you think about the fight? can he roll all the way to cleveland? >> he's going have a speed bump in indiana. that's a conservative state. it a state that looks friendly to cruz' politics.
>> i think kasich is more likely to come in second tonight. pennsylvania for sure. probably in delaware. probably in rhode island. i don't see cruz doing well in any of the north eastern states. >> i agree with you. donald trump may not do as well here in new york. >> i agree with that. i think kasich can win. i think he can be number two in about ten of them. >> i agree. >> back to the 1237, we're looking at tactical voting by the republican party. kasich and cruz are not being viewed separately. they're package to deny -- >> you think voters are changing like that? >> i do. that will happen in pa p and in indiana and california. tactical voting in order to deny the 1237 on the first ballot because everyone tells me that unless trump closes the deal in cleveland on first ballot, we're going to someone else.
>> you pull all of rubio's candidates. >> okay. >> i disagree with both of you. robert, who is most likely right? me or these two guys? they say it will go to the convention. what do you think? >> all this chatter about a contested convention and having kasich come in with a ticket or cruz come in with a ticket it's before trump has a likely big win in new york. he's going to sweep through the northeast next week. the question is, if trump gets close, if he's close to 1237 but not close enough, some of these unbound delegates start the move toward trump to try to avoid this scenario where you have a second ballot and chaos on the floor. >> or if he gets close do more ploouf away from him to make sure he doesn't get to 1237?
>> 1237 is 1237. it's not 1100. >> he's our sophisticated actor. >> you think it's a disaster if trump is the nominee? >> no, i think it's healthy for the party. this is the most successful third party in the history of democracy. it goes through turmoil. >> i say if trump's the nominee, it will be a disaster. >> you with hillary? >> i'm not with any other alternative. >> you going way in november? >> i guess i'm going to have to look really hard. >> come back again. beautiful radio voice. it's so sophisticated. >> thank you. >> up next, bernie sanders is vowing to take his fight to the convention. the duel between sanders and
there is a democratic primary taking place in new york state. now, the polls don't close there until 9:00 p.m. we don't know who is going to be winning or losing. you know what, we're going to do a lot better than people thought we would. >> that's so bernie. we're going to do a lot better than most people thought we would with the finger up there. welcome back to "hardball."
that was senator bernie sanders. mos moments ago the campaign rally up in penn state. with the increasing likelihood of donald trump becoming the republican nominee, democrats see chance for major gains in the house of representatives and possibly taking back the u.s. senate. they're five votes shy right now. could the nasty tone hurt the party come november. joining me right now is the former chair of the democratic congressional campaign committee, new york congressman steve israel. keep going. keep going. he's supporting hillary clinton. with me now is one of the great leaders of american letters. let me start with steve israel. this has got a real new york flair to it up here. i've always said new york media needs to be refed every two hours. they're looking for raw meat, red meat. every two hours you have to say
something nasty about your opponent. this debate for hillary clinton and bernie sanders have lived up to the need of red meat. >> there a a new york street brawl. i'm not going predict what the margin of victory will be, but i will predict hillary clinton who is already ahead with add to that. the thing to look for tonight, i think, on both sides of the aisle is does bernie sanders overperform in the hudson valley and does john kasich overer form on long island where you have moderate suburbs? if kasich doesn't over perform
in nassau county, it means donald trump is the nominee. >> you're not running for re-election. >> no. >> what are your fellow members of the house? who would they run on the ticket with, bernie or hillary? who do they want to run? >> hillary. >> why? >> having hillary at the top of the ticket is a much broader appeal in the competitive districts that we have to win. in the red to blue districts and front line districts, you want somebody that can afeel a broader that jmajority of voter. >> we just had jeff weaver here. he says things like hillary clinton sold her soul to the devil or whatever he phrases it. he phrased it like that. they say she's on the take. how do you reunite come philadelphia in july when you're supposed to get together and hold each others hands in the
air when you've said that kind of stuff? >> i think you had me on the show. i don't know why. i'm not a political junkie. >> talk about this city's culture and what's going on in the city. bernie with his brooklyn accent. >> my attraction to mr. sanders is he's rather unconventional and courageous. when he says that benjamin netanyahu is not right all the time, you'd lose your job if you said that. you can't do that. this man does that. interesting guy. >> does he strike you as man of principle? that's not a vote getter although it might be among young people. >> in the city it survives generation after generation. i think the american people are
people who come from bad governments to become americans. the bad governments they left to become americans are not necessarily much better than what they led. yet the people are survivors. the people are risk takers. americans are risk taking people. they get on a little barge and come over through the sharks that get over here. it's attribute to their fortitude, personality, power. >> you mean de blassio is not a little better than raul castro? >> i'm not saying that. >> of course he is. >> this is amazing citying. people are so courageous in this city. here we are the great junkie political show, yours.
i don't think the political system gets down to changing the way people -- >> let me throw that at steve who is a pro. you're a great writer as well as this guy. not in his league yet. let me ask you this, could a mayor of new york do this? build a brooklyn bridge. this fantastic structure after the civil war. it's amazing to walk under it. all day we've been up here. do we do anything like this anymore? >> no. this kun trip has divested from infrastructure. new york is considered a world capital. the reason it's considered a world capital is because of the erie canal. i'm supporting hillary clinton is she was on the issue of infrastructure. she thinks we have to go back
into the business of building again. that is the full proof recipe for economic stagnation. you build bridges. you build canals. you build roads. you modernize your internet. that's why i'm supporting hillary clinton. one day i hope to sell a fraction of the books he's sold. >> he said you arrive in new york in penn station. not like a prince but like a rat. penn station is disgusting. nice people that work there. >> all right. there's still great buildings going on. you can see the energy of the skyscraper builders. the iron workers. this twin tower and here's the place that was destroyed in 2001. today it's there -- >> freedom tower. >> it's incredible building. it wasn't built by chinese labor. it was built by americans with all sorts of backgrounds.
>> if trump were smart, he'd stop talking about all this stuff he doesn't know anything about and talk about building. it is something he knows about. u.s. congressman steve israel. what more can i say? up next, much more on the battle for new york tonight. a special brooklyn round table coming here. they will speak regular american standard english. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. live from brooklyn.
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welcome back to "hardball." new yorkers headed to the polls today. hillary clinton and donald trump need more than a win. they said they need to crush. on the republican side, new york delegate sweep could put trump closer to locking in the nomination ahead of the cleveland convention. i still think he can do it. joining me is the hardball round table. the great national affairs editor of new york magazine. have to start with you gabe. give me the sense of this.
it's not confusing. it's very clear. you got two front runners who want to crush their opponents tonight and end this thing. >> in their hometown. the symbolism is very important for them to stamp their status as the front-runner. >> is this like the schoolyard when you get the other kid down and bang their head into the cement? in "good will hunting." remember that scene? >> yes that's the idea high pressu pressu pressure. how unrealist it may be. hillary has to maximize it to tell bernie he's not the revolutionary success story he thinks he is. >> does he have a set of ears that can hear that? >> he does not. no matter how much hillary wins by, bernie will not stop.
trump has to crush everybody. ted cruz, you couldn't find him with the entire police department. he got booed in the bronx. you have not heard from ted cruz since. >> joy. you know when i was growing up, you could tell the difference between the concession speech and a victory speech. it was great. the guy would cry a bit and lose. he would say i lost. now, i know we're going to hear from cruz. it will not be a defeat speech. what is he talking about? is that going to be a problem with bernie? is he going to take crushing defeat at penn state tonight? >> i think they will chalk it up to the establishment. if they don't win here tonight, you'll hear a lot about the closed primary process. >> only democrats can vote? >> only democrats can vote and millions of people were
disenfranchised. >> he wouldn't have been in the race. >> it is a good point. he's got the money to go on. i don't think they will take that as a rebuke to his message. i think they will spin it as a victory. >> there's three races going on. new york primary will get numbers. the national numbers. bernie is in the passing lane. he's moving ahead of hillary. he closed a month ago from nine to two now. he's going to go right past her. money game. the third fight. he wins the small donations and wins nationally. this thing doesn't end, does it? >> for bernie it doesn't. i think the super delegates will decide when it ends. there's no sign they are moving in his direction. he can keep running. he will have to persuade that
wing of the party he's their guy. he's not making that case. >> his whole aim here is to prove the system that might reject him in the end to be corrupt and bankrupt, which means as gabe says, if all the super delegates stick with hillary and it's in good measure the super delegates who provide her the margin, he will declare the thing illegitimate. >> does he have are a shot of beating her with pledge deleg e delegat delegates? >> no. barack obama had a lead that's half of what hillary has now. the math is not on his said. he's saying the process is corrupt and that what the demand will be at the end is to ultimately change the process including super delegates. >> trump will make the message to the national party he has grown ups in charge now.
paul manaffoort is the campaign manager now. >> is corey out? >> he's not going to be fired. >> he's been layered. paul manafort, he's a baby boomer. he's been around for 40 years. he's an experienced guy at three conventions. now he's been given a job bigger than any he's had before which is to run the whole campaign. his last big campaign was running the guy, the pro-putin guy in ukraine. he's in the a regular guy. >> there's a big pr firm in washington. who is black with now? >>on kasich. >> manafort is on the inside. >> is this what change looks
like? >> they're other good buddy is carl rove. he was tight with those three. he's trying to play some kind of mark hannah figure long after the idea of a republican king maker. >> is he still walking down the aisle. >> i think it must say something about the new guard that his other clients. . >> he said it's a mixed bag. >> any way. the roundtable is staying with us. he used to start with a huge bag of currency and divy it up among the tribal leaders. they'll be back to tell me something i don't know. this is hardball, the place for politics.
bridge. joy, under the bridge, tell me something i don't know. >> not only is new york one of the most restrictive voting states in the country, no early voting, none of the other things that make it easier. >> no souls to the polls. >> nothing. but it also is a state that's unique if in that for the democrats not only do -- you get six to seven democratic options, one set of bernie, one set of clinton. people have an opportunity to vote for hillary clinton but some bernie and some hillary delegates and game the convention. >> make a psa, if you want to vote in a primary, register in that party. okay? because being an independent voter sounds really great but you don't get to vote in primaries. >> some of these brooklyn districts here near where we are, very important to donald trump. primarily because they're virtually no republicans in them. and he can win three delegates with almost a handful of votes.
>> what we used to call ruttenbergs. >> rumors were out smfl these heavily democratic precincts had no republican ballots because they weren't used to having republicans vote. they did eventually get ballots -- >> and the bronx. >> i wouldn't just put it to hipsters but all over. turns out they did get the ballots there and some republicans trickled in. small numbers. >> so tonight we're talking about trump and hillary and bernie. tomorrow morning kasich is going to have a tough morning. if he doesn't have a good night, how does he make the argument to go on? as a moderate, as an establishment candidate, if he can't turn out any votes here -- it has to be a convincing second. if he gets one or two delegates what's the point? >> the hot hand, let me ask about this, did you notice the two most unpopular candidates running for president are the least well known? he and bernie sanders. and i said that about bernie sanders, although his name's out there, he hasn't taken a lot
scar tissue. people have not hit him on the right because they're waiting for him. on the left they've been nervous. >> hitting him. >> kasich's unfavorables are good but he has no name i.d. >> his unfavorables are good primarily because nobody knows who he is. >> what's he running for? >> he's running on the desperate hope there will be an open convention and the good people of ohio where he's governor will rise up like the fans in the dog pound at the cleveland browns games and make him the nominee. tomorrow morning, what the heck is he going to say? >> these days in this fight, a few delegates here and there, comes in second all over the northeast, doesn't he basically own the vp nomination if he wants it? if he wants it? >> i don't think so. because what is he going to bring? other than ohio? >> ohio. >> but trump did well. trump told me that he would have -- if he had several more days he would have won ohio. >> i think he brings -- >> he's going to have to wrestle chris christie to a mat to get
that, i think chris christie's going to fight for it. >> two northeasterners? >> don't count anything out, chris christie is desperate for it. >> i don't think geography means anything, i don't think voting record, how many votes he gets -- to your point, he would somehow -- trump would somehow attempt to reassure people nervous about a trump presidency in the same way, ironically that people thought that george w. picking dick cheney would bring sober judgment to the bush administration. >> no one would think that trump will listen to kasich the way bush was run by cheney. >> somewhere in texas george w. is thinking, why did i pick dick cheney? i forgot, he was the head of the selection process. anyway. joy, herman, what a group. we'll be here all night. when we return, let me finish with a correction of fact. watching "hardball," the place for politics live from new york. man 1: i came as fast as i could. what's up?
man 2: this isn't public yet. man 1: what isn't? man 2: we've been attacked. man 1: the network? man 2: shhhh. man 1: when did this happen? man 2: over the last six months. man 1: how did we miss it? man 2: we caught it, just not in time. man 1: who? how? man 2: not sure, probably off-shore, foreign, pros. man 1: what did they get? man 2: what didn't they get. man 1: i need to call mike... man 2: don't use your phone. it's not just security, it's defense. bae systems.
let me finish tonight with a correction of fact. bernie sanders is running a tv ad right now that basically accuses those he calls washington politicians of taking $200,000 in speaking fees while opposing a hike in the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. well, the fact is and senator sanders knows it's a fact is washington politicians, members of congress, u.s. senators, are
not permitted to accept speaking fees to any amount. no member of congress, no u.s. senator, is permitted to accept a dollar or a cent for giving a speech. that is the fact. now listen to the bernie sanders ad. >> while washington politicians are paid over $200,000 an hour for speeches, they oppose raising the living wage to $15 an hour. $200,000 an hour for them. not even 15 bucks an hour for all americans. enough is enough. >> it even shows the u.s. capitol where congressmen and senators work. if it's not true, if washington politicians, the people we elect to send to washington, don't get money from corporations for giving speeches, not even a dollar, much less in the hundreds of thousands, which is what hillary clinton collected on a trio of occasions after leaving the state department, why on god's earth did senator sanders paint all of washington with that brush? i think what he's doing here is attacking all other politicians with a broad brush of corruption, while crowning
himself as the one honest person in national politics. why would he do that? why would we not just run against hillary clinton? why run against everyone else who's been elected to serve in washington there? you're as good a judge as i am. what i know what is he's doing is saying something that is simply not true. and that enough should be reason to ditch this tv ad before it sells another citizen on something that is simply not a fact. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. our special coverage of the new york primary continues now. i am so glad to be back in the bronx. >> these are my people! we're going to win and we're going to win so big. an epic battle for the empire state. unleashing a war of words. >> i do question her judgment. >> they have questioned my judgment, well, the people of new york voted for me twice. >> can kasich and cruz slow down