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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 25, 2016 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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night that they are dividing up the primary map to clear a path for each other in select states. >> i want to ask each and every person here to come out and vote for me ten times. >> if i don't have any viability, why is everybody so afraid of me? >> if we continue to unite the party, we will win the nomination. >> good monday morning to you once again. i'm steve kornacki here in new york. a late night political bombshell now turning the republican race for president on its head. rivals ted cruz and john kasich now forming an unprecedented primary season alliance. they are teaming up to try to stop donald trump from clinching the republican nomination. we are going to see both men this hour. they will be making their first public comments since word of their alliance leaked last night. it was announced actually by both campaigns basically in the middle of the night. now, here is how they want it to
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work. both cruz and kasich are all but conceding primaries tomorrow in the mid-atlantic northeast, trump expected to sweep all five states on the board tomorrow. they are looking, this is cruz and kasich, they are looking at later contests in indiana, new mexico and oregon. kasich agrees as part of this deal that he will stay out of cruz's way in indiana. indiana is up on may 3rd. cruz will stay out of kasich's way in new mexico and oregon. the man behind the art of the deal, donald trump, he is slamming this deal as, quote, a horrible act of desperation. overnight trump released a statement reading in part collusion is often illegal in many other industries and yet these two washington insiders have had to revert to collusion in order to stay alive. cruz and kasich are meth kael dead and this act only shows as puppets of donors and special interests how truly weak they
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and their campaigns are. but could this shocking twist back fire on kasich and cruz? our political team is here this morning with every angle of the deal covered. let's start with msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt. she's in our washington bureau. kasie, three states involved here. kasich benefitting in oregon and new mexico but really this looks to me that it is about indiana and recognition that if donald trump wins indiana on may 3rd, this thing is over. >> that's exactly what it tells you, steve, that both of these guys looked around and realized that the trump camp was correct in thinking that they have multiple paths to that all-critical number ahead of cleveland. and suddenly, you know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and these two guys looked up and said, hey, we both need this open convention if either one of us is going to achieve the goals that we've set out to accomplish. now, this is a stunning switch from just a couple of days ago
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when both cruz and kasich were out there bashing each other in public. their aides were arguing in private. there's a lot of bad blood. there are accusations of bad faith on both sides. so i think this underscores that the trump team really was able to convince people that, you know what, we have this path. and i was down at the rnc meeting over the weekend. there was a sense from a lot of the members there that they were feeling almost a willingness to get on board with the trump team. i felt like at the beginning of the weekend, people were excited about or at least all focused on this idea of an open convention. by the end, this show of force from team trump had convinced a lot of people, hey, maybe part of unity is a little bit of better. maybe we should actually get behind trump for this convention. maybe that is the most likely scenario. i think that's part of why you saw the ground shift underneath the two of them. now, of course, the question, is this going to be too little too late.
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indiana really is critical to stopping trump and of course kasich's name is going to be on the ballot. people have been voting since april 5th. is this going to be enough to stop him? that's what we're going to find out. >> that early vote looms as an x factor. marco rubio in arizona, we saw his name was still on the ballot weeks after he dropped out but they had early voting going on, it was a factor there. kasie hunt in washington, thank you for that. nbc's kelly o'donnell is at the site of today's trump rally in warwick, rhode island. kelly, you have been working the phones, e-mailing up a storm on this one. so tell us, what are you learning about this deal, about what it's going to mean going forward? >> well, first of all, steve, to set the scene, the voters who are behind me three hours ahead of a trump event will be interested to see how this all plays out because it is an operation to try to unseat the man they're here to see today. so here's what i have been learning. over the weekend, this came
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together where you have these fierce rivals, these teams who each want to get to the end of the line, who now recognize what limited road there is left, trying to find a way together. how did it work? top operatives for each campaign, cruz and kasich, contacted each other. i'm told the cruz side approached the kasich side. conversations evolved over the weekend. i was told this was locked down on sunday. that neither candidate spoke to the other about this, so this was not at a candidate-to-candidate level. that's really important. this is about taking people inside the operation of a political campaign. this whole season has taken voters and viewers inside it in a way typically we don't see. this is part of that. now, it's also important to know that both campaigns and allies to both campaigns made clear these candidates will not be asking voters to cast a ballot for the other.
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what this is about is trying to say to voters, you're paying attention, you're energized, you're engaged, you want an eventual republican who can win in the fall from their perspective, and they're saying look at how the campaigns are going to choose to spend resources and the most precious resource is always the candidate's time. so, for example, john kasich is not going to indiana. same thing for cruz giving up on oregon. that is critical. to say to voters look at what we're doing, look at our strategy, and you decide if you can vote in a way that matches up with that. they know that voters cherish their vote. in many cases feel strongly ideologically, politically about their choice, so they don't want to alienate voters. so this is really subtle territory. then beyond that there is a big message here. if there's an alliance between these two campaigns, the last two standing other than trump, could it somehow bring together the disparate efforts to stop
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trump that have been part of these different movements. they're trying to get the money involved to do that and they're trying to get strategy to do that, all very critical. on a separate note, steve, i can tell you about the new hire for donald trump, pulling in someone who had formerly been a chief of staff to the rnc but most recently campaign manager to chris christie in his failed bid, a man named ken mckay who will be joining trump, working out of washington i'm told as sort of a washington whisperer. that's an important role to be a liaison from trump to the more establishment and political class, the donor class, and in some ways to just expand some of the people in trump's circle who have experience in these ways. so a lot of moving parts today from the campaign trail. steve? >> kelly, i think one thing people who are hearing this news might be asking is it's been more than a month now, six weeks basically since marco rubio got out of this race. what took kasich and cruz so long to come up with this?
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>> reporter: well, you have to remember in the minds of candidates, they are often the last to believe that their time is coming to an end. that is a powerful part of what happens in campaigns. that can also be true for those closest and most senior to campaigns, so there is a reluctance to want to forge this kind of a partnership because it does say to everyone they acknowledge they can't get there on their own. now, if you talk to various people, including governor kasich, he will say they have been saying for a long time it will be a contested convention and there will be a need to have a plan. cruz, i believe, really thought he could get there winning the old-fashioned way. now that they realize that path is all but precluded, now they're saying, okay, if trump is building momentum after the huge new york result, after the prediction on the five states voting tomorrow, they want to try to blunt that 1237.
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reince priebus, the rnc chairman, made clear that the party will not allow someone to get close. there will be no mulligans or gimmes. you can't crawl over the line, you've got to get 1237. so they reached a point where they said now is the time, however late it might be. one trump ally said this is the last gap of a desperate movement, but as long as there's time left on the clock, they're going to fight and this is their latest play. steve? >> nbc's kelly o'donnell in warwick, rhode island, one of those five states voting tomorrow. thanks for that, kelly. >> you are looking now, that is john kasich arriving at a diner in philadelphia. you see he's working the room right there ahead of that pennsylvania primary. this is his first appearance since word of that deal broke last night. let's take a listen in and see if -- probably not talking about it to this girl here. >> can you smile at the cameras? you got it, sweetheart. i won't take cupcake.
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cupcake is going to eat a little bac bacon. i'm going to teach you about better nutrition, which is what my wife is screaming at me about. all right. what do you do? >> i'm a maintenance supervisor. >> are you? you look like you've got some guns. >> i work out, though. >> do you? what do you bench? >> 275. >> that's pretty good. how about squat? >> four to five. >> i'm leg pressing 325. i don't squat, but i leg press. 325. all right, i've got to eat. excuse me, all. how are you? am i sitting here? hi. >> hi. >> we're going to shake some hands. sit at the counter. >> hi. how are you? >> i'm julianne. >> do you have a last name? >> goodman. i taught at penn for about a year. did you know that? i was in that, what's it called,
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something school. what's the school? no, no, no, at penn. it's called the -- i can't remember. anyway, i was there. >> awesome. >> how are you? what are you guys doing in here? you're supposed to be working. >> we're off on vacation this week. >> what do you do? >> work for fedex. >> you work for fedex. great job. >> can i get a picture with you? >> no, it costs money to get pictures with me. no, just kidding. do you have a camera? >> so how are things going? >> they're going fine. i'm worried about steph curry. do you guys follow basketball? and kyrie irving, wow. >> absolutely. >> on fire, huh?
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>> governor, nice meeting you. >> thank you very much. good to see you guys. thank you. you guys play golf? i played golf yesterday early in the morning and i really stunk. i'm trying. look at all those beautiful children? >> what did you shoot? >> good morning. >> i've never seen this. >> it's philadelphia flavored. >> yeah, man, i know it. how are you? >> can i get a picture? >> i made phone calls for the last week. >> you did? that's fantastic. >> it's important to get in there. not just to get in there, what's the point of getting in if you don't do anything, right?
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>> all right. that's john kasich working the room at a diner in philadelphia. the polls have shown, by the way, while donald trump is leading big heading into the pennsylvania primary tomorrow, in the area right around philadelphia, philadelphia's suburbs, john kasich doing much better, giving donald trump a run for his money there. again, it's 17 delegates the state wide winner tomorrow but the big wild card are unbound delegates. a lot of them saying they will vote the way their congressional district votes. so if john kasich could pick off a few of those congressional districts around philadelphia tomorrow, he could be also picking off some of those unbound delegates. so if you're wondering why john kasich is campaigning there in a state where the polls show him down heading into tomorrow, that is probably the reason why. that's why he is in the part of pennsylvania he's in right now. we're waiting to see if he makes comments at that diner about that deal his campaign struck with ted cruz last night. if he does, we'll bring it to you. but again, john kasich
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campaigning there in pennsylvania. they want me to move on to indiana. so do i. let's bring in brian howie of he knows everything going on in the state of indiana, at least politically. brian, let me ask you, we put the numbers up there. when you look at the second choice vote at least in one of those polls in indiana, that trump lead over cruz shrinks but trump still leads, still is ahead of ted cruz in indiana. how big does this kasich-cruz alliance, how much does it change the landscape in indiana? >> i think we're going to find out in the next few days. i'm looking at senator cruz's schedule and he's in the doughnut counties around indianapolis, greenwood, franklin, columbus. he was in lebanon and plainfield over the weekend. he was trailing trump by about five points in our poll, wthr howey politics poll last week.
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i think he can make it up here. i think this will be a very dynamic race here over the next eight days. i also think that he's got a lead among very conservative or the evangelical votes, 45-33%. >> what about early voting? we were just talking about this a little while ago. it's been going on for a while in indiana, so right now you've got john kasich basically saying i'm backing out of here, this is cruz versus trump. but how many people right now have already voted for john kasich, do you think? >> well, last week it was -- i heard one of your correspondents say it was in the 60,000 range. i think that that's probably above that now, maybe in the 75,000, 80,000 range. that was just after eight days. the secretary of state, connie lawson is, saying that she's expecting unprecedented turnout. and so that is good news for donald trump and bernie sanders. cruz is going to have to try to
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cut into that. right now he's not doing particularly well with the first-time voters which in our poll trump led 53-25%, that's 75% of the electorate so that's another battleground we're looking at. >> the last date where donald trump was defeated in a primary was wisconsin, ted cruz beat him by double digits there. one of the things ted cruz had going for himself in wisconsin was the state's republican establishment really kind of backed -- consolidated around him. he had scott walker, the governor, he had republican leaders in that state all basically making the case you've got to go with cruz, you've got to go with cruz. what's the situation in indiana? you have a republican governor, you have a lot of republican leaders. do you expect we're going to see the same thing ahead of that primary? will it be different? >> well, i'm not seeing that same thing. the indiana republican leaders are kind of sitting this one out. we want a representative tell "the washington post" over the weekend he was going to be
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neutral. governor pence has been meeting with the candidates. he is supposed to meet with kasich on tuesday. that's not going to happen. i'm not sure he's going to make an endorsement because he's got a tough re-election battle coming up himself and so the dilemma for governor pence is do you want to alienate trump or cruz supporters here. the establishment is sitting this out. it's completely different than what it was in wisconsin. >> brian howey of i'm sure we'll check back with you a lot between now and next tuesday. thanks a lot. coming up, we're going to turn to the democratic race. no reports of any collusion between candidates there, but with bernie sanders admitting his path to the white house is a narrow one, does his focus begin to shift from winning the primary to winning the platform fight? first, as we have been showing you, john kasich campaigning in philadelphia right now, meeting with voters at a diner there. his partner in the stop trump effort, ted cruz, he is set to take the stage later this hour
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in indiana. that's a state where he's got a clear shot at donald trump right now. we are monitoring both of those events with both of those candidates to see if they make their first public comment on that deal. that deal that was announced overnight. keeping a close eye on that. a lot enclosigoing on in politi today. stay with us. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast.
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voting tomorrow. speaking of hartford, we are expected to hear from bernie sanders there at any moment, keeping a close eye on that and nbc's chris jansing is in hartford following the sanders campaign. kristen welker in is wilmington, delaware, a clinton rally going on there. kristen, let's start with you. so a little bit of news -- leaking out of the clinton campaign over the weekend about what happened if she wins the nomination and she has to pick a running mate. what did we find out there? >> reporter: that's right, a little bit of rumblings over the weekend about who the clinton campaign might be eyeing for a potential running mate. let's take a look at the list that is coming together. it's really the sorts of people that you would expect. sh sherrod brown, senators that would be geographical beneficial. elizabeth warren. of course you have to consider elizabeth warren.
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that would help with the progressive vote. the two typically aren't considered to be very close and warren hasn't endorsed clinton so some question marks about whether she would go in that direction. also tom perez, hjulian castro, the hud secretary. julian castro one of the names we've heard from the very beginning and of course perez as well. what's interesting about this, though, steve, is less about the specifics of these names and more about the fact that there's all this buzz surrounding her vp pick. and the indication is that the clinton team is sending a message to sanders that this race is just about over, that they're starting to pivot. and we've seen this not only with secretary clinton on the trail increasingly setting her sights on donald trump, but she's released that new ad entitled love and kindness, meant to draw sharp contrast with donald trump and to argue that she is the candidate who would unite people instead of
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dividing people. but she's still locked in this primary battle and the goal is to win big on tuesday. that's why she's going to campaign here and rally voters in wilmington, delaware. steve. >> delaware one of those five states holding primaries tomorrow. let's go to another one in connecticut, the capital city, hartford. chris jansing is standing by there. and i know a sanders rally it looks like is under way where you are. bernie sanders, we know the math, we know it was a tough week last week, what are they trying to get out of tomorrow? >> reporter: what they're trying to do is the exact opposite from what you heard from kristen, maybe pull off an upset. they think they can do well in a place like rhode island and maybe keep it closer. he started today just a couple of minutes ago by talking about a political revolution. that's how he always starts and this is what keeps him going. i'm going to step aside. monday morning, hartford, kek
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connecticut, the people have been steadily coming in. big crowd for a weekday morning. in addition to that, what we saw this weekend, there were 7,000 people yesterday morning and then on a park near yale university, colleges being the heart of where a lot of his support is. more than 14,000 people came out to the point where he walked out yesterday and looked at that crowd and said holy moly. so they're walking this line, and he's talking about what are some of the realities we're going to talk about. the reality of the numbers which don't lie, which show that it would take some sort of a political miracle, a remarkable comeback for him to have a chance really at the nomination. but how does he take this enthusiasm, how does he take the delegates he's won, how does he take these crowds and how does he take that list that he has of 7 million donors, of all the people that have supported him, many of them multiple times, and leverage that into some more progressive to really are continue what he considers to be
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a movement. while he was introduced by the head of a progressive organization asking people to man phone banks and get out the vote tomorrow, that's only part of it, obviously. the other part is to keep this movement going, steve, so they're running both of those on the same track at the same time. >> all right, chris jansing at the bernie sanders rally in hartford, connecticut. thanks for that. joins now here in the studio by clinton campaign deputy communications director christina shockey. let me ask you this on this whole vice presidential issue and a lot of people say you're trying to turn the focus to the general election. but bernie sanders, you see the crowds there, the states he's won, the votes he's gotten, 7 million donors on this list, shouldn't any vice president list of possible running mates include him? >> i have to say we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. hillary is solidly focused on the primary. it's not over yet. there are five important contests tomorrow and she's focused on that. she thinks it's great that he's
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brought so many people into this campaign and sees the big crowds adds a wonderful thing for the democratic party. but the thing that really matters is the people that come out and vote for you on election day. hillary has shown that she's the person that puts together the broadest coalition of democratic voters and is ahead by 2.5 million votes over senator sanders. >> you say it's still going on and, yes, the math we just heard, chris was saying it would probably take a mathematical miracle for bernie sanders to catch her in the delegates. that doesn't mean that he's going to stop any time soon. there's this question of will the sanders campaign take this all the way to the convention. do you look at that and say that would do more harm than good, the democratic party unifying for the fall? >> we're not getting ahead of ourselves. we're focused on the primary races and upcoming contests. when hillary ran in 2008, she campaigned through june. she expects senator sanders to do the same, and that's a good thing. >> in 2008 to use that example, she campaigned through june and
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as soon as it was over, she sat down with then senator obama, she endorsed him, she did not take it to the convention. is that what she's expecting here? >> time will tell. we'll see what happens in the next few contests. hillary is really focused, you see she's campaigning in all the states that are voting tomorrow. we're really taking this one contest at a time and she's doing what hillary does, which is working her heart out to win every vote. >> on this subject of unifying the party, bernie sanders was on "meet the press" and basically chuck was asking him what it would take eventually if he falls short, what it would take to get on board with hillary clinton. this is what bernie sanders said. take a listen. >> i think she's going to have to be very explicit about supporting a program which stands up for the needs of the middle class and working families, which most importantly makes it clear that she is prepared to take on wall street from a very clear way, take on
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the billionaire class, come up with a program that makes health care for all in this country a right within the next several years. >> so i can read your mind. you're going to listen to that and say she's already doing that, she's already showing that. but he's saying when it comes to taking on wall street, standing up for the middle class, finding a health care program that does more than obamacare does right now, he needs to see and his supporters he's saying, his supporters need to see something more. >> well, we've been showing that from the very beginning. she has the toughest, most comprehensive plan to hold wall street accountable. she has the best plan on expanding obamacare to get to 100% coverage in this country. hillary really believes there's more that unites us than divides us. she's going to talk about the issues she's been talking about, how to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, how to make college affordable, how to achieve equal pay in this country. her message is resonating because she's winning.
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>> yes, she's winning. his is resonating too. specifically, like his campaign talks so much about wall street. >> yes. >> he's won all these states and won millions of votes. you don't think that if she does get the nomination, she has to do something or say something to acknowledge what those sanders voters are saying with those votes? >> but she has been talking about those from the beginning. independent analysts say she has the toughest, most comprehensive plan on wall street. hillary is a uniter. she's a person who gets out there and works for democrats. if she's fortunate enough to be the democratic nominee and lead this party, you'll see her do that again. again, she's working to win the contests coming up. she's got five important contests tomorrow that she hopes to win and she's out there working her heart out to do it. >> thanks for the time. coming up, a reminder tonight. a very big monday night here on msnbc. it's going to start at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. a special town hall with bernie sanders, chris hayes will
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moderate there. immediately after that, 9:00 eastern time, another town hall, this one with hillary clinton. rachel maddow will moderate that. back-to-back town halls with the two democratic candidates tonight on msnbc. make sure to tune that in. coming up next, a closer look at three of the states where voters are heading to the polls tomorrow, connecticut, delaware and rhode island. they may be smaller states when it comes to area, but in a primary where every delegate counts, they are huge. stay tuned. trolling for a gig with braindrone? can't blame you. it's a drone you control with your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually over at the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool.
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all right, john kasich is talking about that deal he struck with ted cruz to try to stop donald trump. let's take a listen. >> when you do your job. >> governor, what convinced you this was the right thing to do now? >> well, my team met with the cruz people and they made a recommendation to me. i said i think it's fair because, you know, in some places we haven't spent a lot of resources. i didn't spend resources in the state of wisconsin. minor amount of spending.
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i don't -- i don't have, you know, like daddy warbucks behind me giving me all this money. i have to be careful about my resources. furthermore, the reason why i'm in this race is i'm the only one that beats hillary clinton. now, i'm going to do everything that i can to make sure we don't lose the united states senate, the supreme court, the state and the local courthouse. i don't see this as any big deal other than the fact that i'm not going to spend resources in indiana, he's not going to spend them in other places. so what? what's the big deal? >> so who should your supporters vote for in indiana? >> i've never told them not to vote for me. they should vote for me. you ought to feel good about it. mine is like the people's campaign. we've been outspent basically 50-1. everybody chill out.
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>> governor, to people who want reform and are tired of political games as usual, doesn't this smack of the very same political games that have gone on? >> sir, there hasn't ever been anybody you've met in politics that's led more successful reform than john kasich, nobody. i've balanced the budget, i've shrunk the government, i've taken on corporate welfare, i've reformed the pentagon. when you talk about reform, check my record and you will see that i've been a reformer from the day that i got into politics and i will continue to be a reformer. and i think any way you characterize is as something other than it is is just a mischaracterization. but i've become very used to mischaracterizations. >> i tell you what -- >> what do you say to voters who might feel like this process is unfair, this strategy. they feel like they have a say in this. >> they have a total say. get a majority -- which people?
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my people don't feel that way. who is it that feels -- all you've got to do is get the right number of delegates and then you win. if you can't get the right number of delegates, you don't win, and then the delegates who are selected through a democratic process get to choose. what's wrong with that? >> governor, doesn't that ruin the strategy if you don't ask your voters to vote for cruz in indiana? >> i'm not campaigning in indiana and he's not campaigning in the other states. that's all it is. no big deal. but it's fun, though, you're all still here. at by the way, and by the way, i'm having the time of my life. i met so many people here today. >> john kasich at a diner in philadelphia. we said we were keeping an eye on what he would say about the deal between the kasich and cruz campaigns. he's doing his best there to downplay it, saying all it means
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is i'm not going to campaign in skpan indiana, ted cruz is not going to campaign in oregon and new mexico. but critically he was asked what should voters in indiana do, are you telling voters in indiana that they should vote for ted cruz. john kasich would not say that. instead john kasich said to the voters in indiana, they ought to vote for me. remember, john kasich, his name will still be on the ballot there, so he could still be a factor in this race without campaigning there, without spending money there. this does not automatically mean that it's a one-on-one ted cruz/donald trump race in indiana. again, john kasich speaking just now at that diner in philadelphia. okay, a look at where the candidates are today. you see kasich there in philly. events being held from bernie sanders in hartford to donald trump in warwick, rhode island. kasich is going to head down the road to rockville, maryland. cruz is skipping tomorrow's
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primary states altogether. he is going to be in indiana today. we touched on two of those big states tomorrow in our last hour, pennsylvania and maryland. this hour we want to hit the other three so we've invited back some of our favorite on the ground reporters. matthew albright in delaware, chris keating in connecticut, ian donis is in rhode island. ian, let's start with you there in rhode island. you're expecting donald trump. donald trump is going to be there later today. also there were dueling rallies over the weekend, hillary clinton was in central falls, bernie sanders was at a big park in providence. let's start on the democratic race there. bernie sanders is looking for a win somewhere tomorrow. can he get it in rhode island? >> absolutely. it will not be a surprise at this point if bernie sanders wins rhode island. at one point that would have been a huge shock back in 2008 hillary clinton beat then senator barack obama here by 18 points. but that's a million years in politics, as we know. there's a lot of
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anti-establishment feeling in rhode island. there's been a lot of economic hardship. and that's propelling support both for sanders and for donald trump. there's been conflicting information from two separate polls. a brown university poll out yesterday showed clinton up by nine points but public policy polling has sanders up by four points. the real question is how the undecideds break and the thinking is that they generally lean towards sanders. >> and on the republican side you mentioned this brown university poll over the weekend in rhode island that had trump at 38%, kasich at 25%, cruz at 14%. and ppp has a poll with trump polling over 60% there in rhode island. i guess there's a question, you're expecting a trump landslide but the flip side is delegates are not a winner take all there on the republican side. >> that's correct. as long as the republican candidates can get 10% of the vote, the delegates are awarded on a roughly proportional
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process, so the 19 delegates, three are state committee people. the 16 others include three from each congressional district and 13 statewide. so that's a roughly proportional process, assuming that kasich and kroouds at least get 10% of the vote, that will not be a huge edge for trump. but he can be expected to win here. the question is by how much. kasich has been making a big push. he was here saturday. his super pac has been operating here and his campaign is trying to foster talk of an upset. that could be a bridge too far, but it will be interesting to see how it pans out on tuesday. >> matthew albright down in delaware, we were just talking about hillary clinton campaigning there today. donald trump was there a couple days ago. both sides, matthew, democratic side, republican side, how is it looking there the day before the big vote? >> well, delaware is really reveling in the fact that we have a lot of candidates down
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here. that doesn't usually happen. on the democratic side hillary clinton has advantages here. she is supposed to be giving a speech within the hour. wilmington is democratic, the city that she and both bernie sanders had a rally here on saturday and she's having a rally here today. wilmington is the locus of power for democrats and a corporate hub. so bernie sanders sort of anti-wall street message doesn't resonate here the way it does in some blue states. that said, bernie sanders had 3,000 plus people show up and he is trying to get a ground swell of populist support so they're not giving up here. on the republican side, there's one poll that's come out that has trump crushing cruz and kasich here. his rally had thousands of people at the state fairgrounds. and it looks like now -- it looks now like he's going to roll. the interesting thing is delaware is winner take all for
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its delegates, but the trump campaign is starting to pressure some of those delegates for what they're going to do on the second ballot. the republican rules don't bind them in any way on ballots past the first ballot. so if you're looking for swing votes on a second ballot or further ballots, look to delaware's delegates. >> let's go up to correction, chris keating is there. bernie sanders, chris, as we talk right now, bernie sanders is holding that rally in hartford. we also have this new ppp poll from connecticut showing donald trump over 50% on the republican side. 50%. that's the magic number for trump tomorrow. clear that he could win all the delegates in the state. what do you think of his odds to clear 50% in connecticut tomorrow? >> that is correct, he does have a didn't chance to do that. the quinnipiac poem had him up quite a bit. he's trying to run up the score. cruz did not come here at all.
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kasich was here basically three times, three stauops. trump was in waterbury and bridgeport on saturday so, yes, he's trying to run up the score, he's trying to get the 50% and he's trying to get all the delegates, no question about it. >> i can tell you, my family is from waterbury. if ever there were a city tailor made for donald trump, i've got to think it's waterbury, connecticut. let me ask you about the democratic side. bernie sanders in hartford right now. ian is telling us next door in rhode island there's a good shot for bernie sanders. what about connecticut? >> he definitely has a chance. he was down by nine points in quinnipiac. the whole establishment, democratic establishment from the governor on down is for hillary clinton. however, sanders had give or take 10,000 to 14,000 people last night at the new haven green and connecticut has a long history of liberal upsets, usually in the democratic primary. barack obama beat hillary, a guy
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named ned lamont beat joe lieberman. oftentimes the upstart candidate wins in kekds going back to jerry brown in 1992 when he beat bill clinton. that was a long time ago. the clintons remember that and bill clinton himself is here for two stops in connecticut, plus he was here the other day in new haven. so the clintons are pulling out all stops. hillary had three stops, bill had three, chelsea was here. the entire family was here. they know connecticut is important. >> it looks like two shots for bernie sanders in those two new england states, delaware might be a little tougher for him. matthew albright, chris keating, ian donnis, thank you for being here. nbc's peter alexander will join us now. so he is at that diner, peter is, in philadelphia where john kasich has been talking about this deal. peter, the one thing that jumped out at me, kasich trying his best to downplay it and say, look, we're just not spending money, we're just not
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campaigning in indiana. when he was asked point blank what should voters do in indiana, he still said they should vote for him. >> steve, you're exactly right. i was standing next to the governor and asked him that question right out of the gate. will you directly tell your voters in indiana to vote for ted cruz and he said absolutely not, no. this doesn't have to do with their votes, this has to do with an allocation of resources. his language was i don't have daddy warbucks' money like some others, this is simply about distributing our resources as best we can. he of course has been focused throughout the course of this campaign on a contested convention. he recognizes that's his only path going forward. as for questions about whether this is the same old shenanigans from washington, collusion as donald trump put it, i asked him that question. he said collusion? what does collusion even mean? does donald trump know what collusion means? he scoffed at that idea. but this demonstrates frustration in this campaign season. so many people who are upset
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with the ways of washington choosing to go with donald trump and ovther outsiders. for john kasich, one of the real challenges is to separate himself from this pack without appearing that he is one of the pack, one of the same out of washington that so many are pushing back against. >> peter, i'm just curious, being around the kasich campaign on a day like this when the deal breaks, the news this deal breaks and we know the kasich campaign has been looking for some kind of arrangement like this, do they take some satisfaction that ted cruz had been out there for the last month telling kasich to get out of this race. no now cruz came to the table and made a deal with him. >> the way we understand it based on sources close to this negotiation, while it had been discussed in one it eeratioiterr for form or another, saturday the cruz campaign approached the kasich campaign with the idea of
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this deal. the candidates did not speak one on one with one another, but kasich today, and i was standing right next to him, he looked over at us and said look where all the energy is. you guys are with me today. i think one reason is because of the unusual nature of obviously this deal that the two of them, this alliance that he and ted cruz have come up with, but he wanted to make it clear we're having the time of our life and we will be there in cleveland. >> peter, this maybe illustrates one of the main challenges and one of the things holding back this stop trump movement is here we are at the end of april and there still is no consensus alternative to donald trump. we're basically hearing it's kasich in some states and cruz in other states. >> that's exactly right. one of the points that's significant about this is even if he did say to voters don't vote for me, vote for your second best choice or in effect
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vote for ted cruz, it's not entirely clear that everybody in indiana would be voting for ted cruz. there according to a recent poll 53% of kasich's supporters say their second choice is cruz. but 22% say their second choice is trump. so you can't simply take kasich's tally and cruz's tally and add it together and have a number bigger than trump's because there are no guarantees that those who support kasich if kasich's name wasn't on the ballot would be going to the man they want it to. >> you see john kasich making his way out of there right now. kasich in pennsylvania this morning heading to maryland later today. cruz is going to be in indiana. it is all about indiana right now for ted cruz. he thinks he's got a one-on-one shot or at least the closest thing he could possibly get to it against donald trump there. maybe one factor, though, standing in his way. tony toddecope ill is on the grd
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and will tell us after this.
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all right. well, you're not going to find ted cruz in any of the five states holding primaries tomorrow. he's taking a pass on them on this monday before the voting there. instead, he is skipping ahead to indiana. he's got four events scheduled in the hoosier state today. of course indiana voting on may 3rd. one problem for ted cruz now that he struck this deal with john kasich, though, where kasich isn't going to be campaigning in indiana, well, thousands of indiana voters have already cast their ballots. they have got early voting there. it's been going on for weeks right now. so a lot of those early votes may have already been cast for john kasich. msnbc's ton tony dokoupil is in
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indiana. tony, we just heard john kasich saying people in indiana if they want should still vote for me anyway, so that's a big problem for ted cruz. but the bigger problem is even if that's all kasich says, he may have already banked a lot of votes out there that may come back to haunt ted cruz. >> reporter: no doubt about it, steve. they have a very thick stack of acty ballots and people have been picking them up all day. when you say voters have been coming out by the thousands, it's the tens of thousands. back in 2012, about 120,000 people voted early here in the primary. they're on pace for 240,000 at this point. so a huge, huge increase and that is bad news for kasich and cruz because they have one week left to convince voters like these to agree to this alliance. if they are voting for kasich, to make the switch. i spoke to one kasich supporter this morning. she heard about the alliance. she was disappointed that the kasich event here tomorrow was
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cancelled and she voted for kasich anyway. she said i don't care about the deal, i just want to vote my heart. cruz supporters have heard about the deal. they understand why it's happened but they're uncomfortable about it. the other reason this could really be trouble is trump supporters. i've got one of them with me here. this is janice. she just voted for donald trump right here. trump supporters are galvanized by this. they feel like it just proves what donald has been saying the whole time, the system is rigged, it's all about collusion. what's your reaction to this alliance? >> i agree. i think they are trying to take the vote out of the american people's hands and i don't think it's right. >> do you think it's going to work? >> i hope not. >> reporter: all right, thank you very much. and steve, democrats are also pessimistic. lots of people have come through saying they're voting for bernie sanders or hillary clinton. we asked them do you think this will work. they don't think so. they fully expect their candidate to be facing the donald in november. >> a lot of democrats say that's the matchup they want.
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tony dokoupil in indianapolis. thanks for that. still ahead, we've heard from john kasich but we are waiting and listening for ted cruz. possibly going to hear the first comments from him about his take on that late-night deal that was struck between cruz and john kasich. we'll bring you that event when it starts. i'm steve kornacki. i'll see you right back here at 5:00 p.m. eastern. erica hill is up next from pittsburgh. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ quite like the human foot. introducing the 241 horsepower lexus is 200 turbo. with almost twenty percent more base horsepower.
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♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪ thank you. seriously though, stacy went to a great school and she's really loyal. you should give her a shot. sanjay's a team player and uh... good mondays morning. i'm erica hill in for tamron hall coming to you live from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. we're going to begin in indiana where senator ted cruz is holding a rally at this hour. of course he is focusing on indiana after we learned that john kasich will skip the may tlooe 3rd primary to help ted cruz. let's listen in as ted cruz is speaking. >> on jobs, freedom and security, that's exactly what i will be and what i will do as president. >> you and john kasich, how do you justify


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