tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC April 27, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PDT
good evening. i'm lawrence o'donnell, continuing our coverage of the northeast primaries. the most important political news this hour has come in a written statement from bernie sanders' campaign. we'll bring you that in a moment. on the republican side, donald trump swept all five states by very big margins tonight. and hillary clinton won four out of five states. bernie sanders won rhode island tonight, but that was obviously not enough to slow hillary clinton's momentum toward the nomination. within the hour, the sanders campaign has issued a written statement that contains no reference to any remaining path to the nomination, but does give
another reason why bernie sanders intends to stay in this campaign until every state has voted. that statement reads in part, i congratulate secretary clinton on her victories tonight. i'm proud we were able to win in rhode island. the one state with an open primary where independents have a say in the outcome. democrats should recognize that the ticket with the best chance of winning this november must attract support from independents as well as democrats. i am proud of my campaign's record in that regard. the people in every state in this country should have the right to determine who they want as president and what the agenda of the democratic party should be. that's why we are in this race until the last vote is cast. that is why this campaign is going to go to the democratic national convention in philadelphia with as many delegates as possible to fight for a progressive party
platform. the associated press calculated tonight that hillary clinton is on track to win the nomination, even if she loses all of the rest of the states that will vote between now and june 7th when the primary campaign ends in california. but if donald trump loses indiana next week, he might not be able to win the delegates needed for the republican nomination. but still tonight, donald trump declared himself to be the presumptive nominee and he said this about the likely democratic nominee. >> but i think the only card she has is the woman's card. she's got nothing else going and frankly, if hillary clinton were a man, i don't think she'd get 5% of the vote. the only thing she's got going is the woman's card and the beautiful thing is women don't like her. okay? >> hillary clinton spoke before donald trump spoke tonight, but was easy for her to anticipate what donald trump might say about her. >> now, the other day mr. trump
accused me of playing the quote woman card. well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in. >> msnbc political correspondent steve kornacki joins us now with a look at the road to the republican nomination. steve, what's ahead? >> yeah, lawrence, i think the headline tonight, that road to 1,237 for donald trump opened up wide. take a look at this. he came into the night with 845 trying to get to 1,237. looks like he'll get roughly 110 of the bound delegates, that'll take him to 955. but here's the coup, the unbound, 54 of them in pennsylvania. this is very unofficial right now. but it looks like about two-thirds of those unbound are going to be people who say they support donald trump or people
who say they will vote for the winner of their district. and donald trump is sweeping pennsylvania right now. this is a massive trump landslide. if you add in 35 of those unbound, that 955, he'd close out tonight with 990. 990 with this to go. these are the states still to come on the republican side. you mentioned indiana. next week it's all about indiana right now the way those delegate rules work there. if you win even a narrow victory in indiana by a point, by a fraction of a point, you're going to get the bulk of those delegates. this is a winner take all here in new jersey. trump looking strong in west virginia. trump has a chance to get a bunch in new mexico. proportional states up here. if he comes into may with 990 delegates there are a couple of different pathways that are open to him to get to 1,237. so three weeks ago he lost wisconsin. all of the conventional wisdom said that's it, open convention. it feels very different. the world feels very different tonight, lawrence. >> steve kornacki, thanks.
joining us now, nbc's katy tur, she covers the trump campaign and also with us is hallie jackson covering the cruz campaign. some of us who listened to the trump speech tonight thought we were hearing a strong rebuke to the new jeem in -- regime in his campaign. paul manafort promised a more presidential candidate. this one went on at no length, no teleprompter, got in the shots at hillary clinton that we saw. what's going on inside that campaign in terms of the candidate's presentation? who's winning the battle on how he's supposed to take the stage? >> i think it's a day to day thing with the campaign right now but certainly the -- by all appearances at least for tonight, corey lewandowski seems to be winning that battle. lewandowski came and spoke to reporters before donald trump took the stage.
he said that he would never change donald trump. when i asked him if he's trying to evolve the candidate. meanwhile, lewandowski was relatively close to trump. a couple people away from him, standing on his left side. paul manafort on the other hand was far down the right side, behind a corner really and not in the eye line of cameras. you could read something into that or you could read that donald trump's allowing his long time campaign manager to re-establish himself after what was an embarrassing week. i think the trump campaign is twofold. i mean in some ways this was the old donald trump that we saw tonight. he was calling hillary clinton crooked. and in other ways, he is giving the foreign policy speech tomorrow in washington, d.c., where i'm told that he's going to read from a teleprompter. a speech that was rewritten by donald trump i'm told which means that at some point, somebody else wrote it and we were -- and the campaign did confirm that they hired a
speechwriter. so i think we'll have more indications about what's going on once we see trump tomorrow. >> hallie jackson, ted cruz spoke before the votes were count and he predicted if media would overreact to something we knew was going to happen, which is donald trump winning all the states, but he did outperform the polls. so what's the cruz campaign reaction now? >> looking ahead to tomorrow, lawrence. we here another the hoosier gym. cruz is ready for the next six days and the most critical days of his campaign so far. he has to prove in the effective head to head match-up with donald trump that he can win. here's a couple of challenges coming out of tonight. his challenge is that donald trump had dominant wins, right, above 50%. it looks like 55 to 60% in some of these states. for weeks now cruz has been making the argument that trump can't win over a majority of conservatives. well, he did tonight in some of these states so now cruz has to
find a different kind of argument. watch for him potentially to pivot to a general election message to point out that cruz is the one who could beat hillary clinton this fall. but he did lose and lose big in not just new york, but pennsylvania, potentially a battle ground state in november. so he's got to answer to that too. that's where he may see the rivals attack him. the other big challenge for cruz the delegate strategy. his campaign has been able to point to successes hunting delegates for a potential second ballot in cleveland. in places like maine. in places like south carolina. in places like wyoming, colorado. but even his top aides have acknowledged none of that matters if trump is able to lock up the nomination outright with the 1,237 delegates. the challenge for cruz now, right, given what it looks like trump has done in places like pennsylvania is to be able to make the argument if it does go to the contested convention that some those unbound delegates should in fact swing their support over to cruz. >> katy tur and hallie jackson, thank you both for joining us. really appreciate it. time for tonight's war room. the most important place to be
in any presidential campaign. the war room is where the senior strategists spend their days and nights figuring out where to send the candidates next, where to make the next big tv buy. they plot the strategies for snatching up those delegates. the strategies to reply to the latest attack. the strategies to launch an attack on the other candidates. the war room is where the candidates live or die. right now, the campaign war rooms are staring at maps of indiana which votes next tuesday. always keeping an eye on california. the big prize at the end of the primary calendar on june 7th. the stop trump campaign has its own war room. they decided not to fight trump tonight, believing their time and money was better spent in indiana. where the stop trump movement has already spent $2 million with more on the way there. joining us in the war room tonight, the only rule is you get into this war room if you have been in a real campaign war room, we have rick tyler, political analyst and former spokesman for the cruz campaign.
ben ginsberg, a partner at jones day. he served as national counsel for bush 2004 campaign and mitt romney's 2012 campaign. with us jim laughlin, from mclaughlin and associates. he worked on the presidential candidates of bob dole and fred thompson. let's go into the ted cruz war room tonight where all the pressure is. because that -- donald trump doesn't have it locked, but rick tyler, this possibility of stopping him is getting narrower and narrower. what's going on in the cruz war room right now? >> well, i think two things. one is -- i mean, indiana is the most important thing and secondly is california. indiana is -- could be a winner take all state for ted cruz if he does very well there. he's going to be -- looks like he's spending a lot of time there. it seems that he's able to make some gains. he did that in wisconsin. and then it's going to be really
microtargeting california. trying to pick off these 15 -- 54 congressional districts, one at a time. and trying to make sure that he gets his share of the delegates to deny trump. he's got to do that. tonight, look, tonight and last week, it was expected. and it was a big night for donald trump. i don't want to take it away from him. but the cruz campaign was well aware that they were not going to do well in the northeast. the north east is a different bird. i mean, a couple -- from delaware, rhode island and connecticut and pennsylvania and maryland, you have one republican senator in all those states. they just don't -- they don't elect conservatives in the northeast. i'm from the northeast. i worked hard to get conservatives elected there. it's a very difficult place to do it. >> ben, in the cruz war room tonight is someone taking a step back and saying, okay, yeah, we're going to talk about indiana in a minute. but let's talk about pennsylvania. we still have delegates to fight for in pennsylvania. is that still part of the game that they're working on? >> sure.
it's part of what's being said in the war room, but there's also a team on the ground in pennsylvania that has to do that. what the war room is thinking about is, you know, we're in this position, because we didn't do as well as we said we would on march 1st and march 8th and march 15th in the southern states. what can we learn to take on a really republican state like indiana? from what happened to us where we underperformed in those southern states. >> and jim, what's the timing on this? we know indiana is a week from now. but we joe california is june 7th and california is gigantic. you have all those congressional districts you have to compete in. you don't have the time between now and june 7th to just concentrate on california. you know, to do a real job of trying to win california. but you have to concentrate on the stuff that comes before it. how do you keep california alive as a strategy in that room while worrying about indiana? >> it's the ultimate multitask.
you've got to do all of the above of what you just said. that's what the good campaigns have. up to this point the cruz campaign has done a really good job in terms of going out and hunting for those delegates as they have been going on. but the big key is i really agree with rick. they have got to win indiana next week. they did a good job the expectation games with tonight saying, don't worry about it, doesn't matter. but they have got to go out and they have to try to replicate what they did in wisconsin to try to do in indiana. and win that state. >> we have three republican candidates still alive in this raise. but there's only one who's got a war room running that's about actually winning the nomination through votes. the other two, the kasich war room, the cruz war room, they are really stop trump war rooms and then there's a stop trump war rooms. so we have three. they're all trying to do the same thing. >> well, that's right. so there are really -- look, kasich had a bad night tonight because he was supposed to do well in the northeast.
so you have -- look, you have donald trump and you have ted cruz who does not have a path to the nomination. but mathematically, he's got under the rules he and donald trump are the only people that could be placed under the current rules into the nomination. so they have to stop him from getting to 1,237 on the first ballot. and as even donald trump acknowledged over and over again tonight if they go to the second ballot, donald trump will be in trouble. >> all right. i have to turn to my lawyer in the war room when we talk about the rules and getting placed in the nomination. is that true just for the first ballot or what -- if you're the kasich war room, how do you get your guy placed in the nomination? >> you don't necessarily have to get your guy placed in nomination. >> wait a minute. this is to get the nomination. how do i get the nomination if i don't get -- >> because you get delegates voting for you. the 40-b is a time controlled rule. it's designed to be sure that you don't have people who don't
warrant the national air time giving speeches. so actually, this is true under the precedence of the house of representatives it is getting delegates that gets you the nomination. and rule 40-b which we love to talk about is all about controlling time and being able to get the convention speech, getting space in the hall. being able to have and these -- to have these spontaneous war demonstrations. >> every time ben starts talking i shake my head because of the stuff i have never heard before. so it may -- >> we try to keep it that way as a lawyers. >> so the rules at the conventions allows only the two names to be formally placed in nomination through a speech. but what you're saying to me is if a bunch of delegates vote marco rubio and if a bunch of delegates vote john kasich, then they're in play? >> absolutely. >> as simple as that? >> because the rules say that the delegates are bound under the votes of their states and
their statewide references. that's how the voters play in this process. so if you were a marco rubio delegate, or a john kasich delegate, even if he can't get placed in nomination, under the rules, your votes show up as delegates for them on the first ballot. >> jim, california, the state that most resembles it is new york. for all players including the republicans what lessons did the cruz war room, the kasich war room learn in new york that they apply to california? >> a great question, because i think it goes back to what you said before is i think in a state like california they can win some delegates and some congressional districts. that's their goal at this point is to deny him delegates. there was a couple of congressional districts in new york where donald trump won one with barely over 600 votes. he won another one with barely over 1,200 votes. >> these are very liberal districts in new york city. they did not fight him on. >> right. overwhelmingly. you can run a legitimate campaign there, doing mail, for
150, 250,000 dollars which isn't a lot of money. that's one of the things you want to do if you're the cruz or the kasich campaign to try to deny them delegates in california. >> all right. our war room veterans will stay with us. up next, what's going on in the trump war room and boy, that's a war room that's tough to imagine. none of us have been in that one. also the fight for indiana will be part of this. coming up, we'll do to the road warriors. nbc's campaign road warriors coming up.
the democrats have treated bernie very badly and frankly, i think he should run as an independent. okay? it's over. as far as i'm concerned it's over. these two guys cannot win. there's no path. hillary -- i call her crooked hillary, show's crooked. she'll be a horrible president. she will not be a good president.
she doesn't have the strength. she doesn't have the stamina. >> we're back know with the republican campaign war room veterans to talk more about the donald trump strategy. with us again, rick tyler, ben ginsberg and jim mclaughlin. jim, imagine yourself in the trump campaign war room. i know it's tough. if they -- if that plane makes it over the mountain to the nomination, the wheels will be scraping the top of the peaks. i mean, this as close as it gets. so how do they plot the rest of the way? >> and then some. you know what it is, i think, you know, we're talking a lot about process tonight. we're talking about war room stuff. but i think if you're the trump campaign, you're the cruz campaign right now, you want to be talking more about messaging. i think what he wants to do is he wants to go back and i think -- i thought it was interesting. i thought hillary did a good job tonight where she was going after donald trump. i think donald trump needs to focus more of his powder right now on hillary. >> okay. so rick, jim is saying the first thing in the trump war room, somebody says, who's going to get control of this guy?
who's going to get control in to say what needs to be said? >> i think that trump said tonight very directly that i'm in control of me and no one is in control of me. yet he keeps saying he'll act more presidential. he seems to try to. he gets a lot of credit for not calling, you know, ted cruz a liar, but instead calling him senator, i think that's sort of a joke. but, you know, look, if he goes to the nomination, i mean, i really do believe that he's going to have to change his tone. because he's actually in a very real sense he is a northeastern liberal progressive. we'll have hillary clinton on the one side and donald trump on the other, and as donald trump -- and is donald trump going to outlive the live? i don't see how he mobilizes the conservative base to get excited to elect a northeastern progressive. >> tax cut, tax cuts, tax cuts, always worked. he is for a giant tax cut. never mentions it. it's not mentioned in a speech.
there's -- there are some classic republican items in his agenda. most of which he does not mention. >> he will not raise taxes on the rich. >> so when you're in the trump war room, i'll bet you that first 90 minutes before they get to any technicals is how are we going to get control of him and then they kind of give up and go on to the technicals. >> well, i think they have concluded they have to let trump be trump. if you're in the war room right now, one of the things you need to get your hands around is the republican platform process. >> yeah. >> because there's doctrine in there not part of donald trump's rhetoric. that's been sort of ignored facets so far of this now. >> we're joined now by steve mcmahon, the ceo and founder of purple strategy. he worked as a strategist and consultant for governor howard dean's 2004 presidential campaign. steve, howard dean's campaign may be a model for what we're seeing tonight. very important written statement
by the sanders campaign tonight in which bernie sanders says he gives this reason why he's staying in the race. that's why this campaign is going to the democratic national convention in philadelphia with as many delegates as possible. to fight for a progressive party platform. and then, steve, he lists all the items he wants in that platform and in that written statement not one word now -- not one word about a path to the nomination. >> right. it's interesting. it's actually i think a little more reminiscent of a campaign i worked on as a kid. ted kennedy's campaign where he wasn't going to be the nominee, but he felt strongly about a number of issues and he wanted to continue in the race and he did. he wanted to make is his case on the convention floor which he did. he won quite a few platform battles in 1980, but in the course of doing that most of the carter people would say that he probably didn't do president
carter very much good in terms of coming out of the convention in a way that he could win the general election against ronald reagan. fortunately, democrats this time won't be running against ronald reagan. donald trump can steal his slogan from 1980 but he's not ever going to be ronald reagan the candidate. i think that, you know, that makes this a little easier for democrats to absorb. but you're right, lawrence, the rationale for his candidacy moved from i'm going to win this thing or i can still win this thing, to i'm going to continue to fight because i care about the issues. not an illegitimate thing he's doing. but how he does it is very important. >> and hillary clinton's address was addressed at bernie sanders' supporters. she was very specific about it. there was a point in there where she reached beyond that and referred to thoughtful republicans, considering herself
to be addressing them. especially with donald trump on his way to that nomination. and so she is clearly working right now on bringing the bernie sanders supporters her way. >> yeah. i thought her speech tonight was very, very artful. she was very respectful towards senator sanders and the ideas and the issues that he's raised and brought forward in this campaign. but she's also very mindful there are a lot of swing voters out there who don't like donald trump out there and before donald trump gets to reinvent himself or tries to reinvent himself, she wants to make an impression on the voters which i thought she did artfully tonight. >> talk about the emotion in the war room tonight when they are staring at this situation and they're thinking literally not just about what we do next, but what do we say next and they come up with this written statement, which the candidate certainly had to approve. that's a tough night, sitting down composing this. >> yes. that's a very, very difficult night. because you can see -- you know, just reading the tea leaves and i am just reading tea leaves now.
ted devine said tomorrow is day for assessment. if we don't have a path to the nomination, if we can't get the delegates we'll be honest about that. one of the things about the sanders campaign has really benefited it is this sense of authenticity. so ted did that. ted is an honest guy. he was just being candid and you can see the reaction from inside the campaign. they weren't ready to think about this. they weren't ready to consider it. i think senator sanders' wife quickly swatted it down. so, you know, that's the kind of thing that happens when you get the rational kind of thoughtful strategist who is supposed to be detached a little bit from the campaign and the emotion of the moment. and the emotion of the moment. when those two things collide, and what you will see is a rationale for going forward, but not the same rationale as yesterday. it's incumbent upon the sanders' campaign to figure out if they're go to go forward and
they're certainly entitled to. how they'll do that, what tone they will take and what they'll emphasize as secretary clinton did eight years so much unites democrats that we'll come together. which is something that the sanders campaign has pretty consistently done throughout the campaign so far. i would expect to see them continue doing that. >> steve mcmahon gets the last word, so thank you all for joining us in the war room tonight. up next, on the campaign trail. you will hear from nbc's road warriors.
i applaud senator sanders and his millions of supporters for challenging us, to get unaccountable money out of our politics and giving greater emphasis to closing the gap of inequality. let's go forward. let's win the nomination and in july let's return as a unified party. thank you all so much. >> no one knows more about what's happening out there on the campaign trail than our road warriors. they're joining us now from a lonely hotel bar in philadelphia. kristen welker, nbc news white house correspondent covering the clinton campaign.
jacob soboroff interviewing those to the convention. and kasie hunt now covering the stop trump movement. if you're going to stop trump, your next stop is indiana. that's where everyone is going tomorrow. >> that's right, lawrence. although i have to commend our intrepid last call was 11:30 an hour ago. they're still here at this bar with us in philadelphia. not quite empty. >> i don't know what they're drinking, but they're here and hanging out with us. >> we have nailed down the delegate count and we nailed down the last time you can buy a glass of wine. this night for donald trump, so overwhelming. right now, nbc news totals trump 109 delegates. so well ahead of where all of the campaigns -- i was talking to the head of this were saying, this is the over/under number for trump. three of the undeclared -- >> my favorite. it's funny because it's the exact opposite of the unbound
delegate scenario in north carolina and colorado where trump got his clock cleaned by ted cruz, who struck and found these unbound delegates and brought them over to his side. tonight, it sieges like he's going -- it seems like he's going to get the vast majority of the unbound delegates in there thing. >> the people i talked to, tonight was a night where they started to say, okay, it looks like this is going to be trump. one republican official said the only person who can stop trump is trump right now. i wonder what you make of that, because you have been covering that movement. >> i think this is a place where they clearly decided they weren't going to play in the northeast. right, you talked to all the strategists. they all on background there's a lot of finger pointing going on, saying, you know what, john kasich wasn't playing here. he was the guy who had a shot. you could see if he had come in here with money, he could potentially move the numbers.
but the reality is he didn't have any of it. >> why? has it come down to it's too expensive in the new york media market. >> they didn't play here. >> the challenge here has been getting the republican donors on board. they all went a year plus ago, they went in big for jeb bush. they gave millions to the right to rise super pac it went nowhere. they watched one candidate after the other after the other fall to donald trump and now there's a group of them, they're funding our principles pac and the other groups -- you saw it a little bit in public with charles koch who said you know what, hillary clinton might be better. that said i'm not going to try to help. those are the kind of people who want to stop trump. but that's the opposite of where the republican electorate right now. one of the things that's shifted against the stop trump movement is the professionalization of the trump campaign. when you were on the ground talking to all of these people could you see that? did you have a sense of that today? >> absolutely. you know, many of the unbound
delegates that i talked to have actually got face time with donald trump which is so different from colorado and north dakota where the other bulk of the unbound delegates were. you heard donald trump talk up there about how there's a moral obligation for these unbound delegates to support the winner of the state. where last week or the week before he was saying this is a rigged system, it's a corrupt system, it's a broken system. he was talking about how now that's some responsibility to these unbound delegates. >> one of the things that struck me today, you really got the sense that there was -- disorganization in the stop trump movement and the alliance between kasich -- they wanted to stop trump. but they didn't exactly have the same method of going about it. i think that that hurt them and confused voters. you got the sense from voters that i didn't like that. they were playing to the rigged system. >> people here were switching from cruz most likely to donald
trump. i was told tonight by some unbound delegates. just on your point i wanted to ask you, who the heck is never trump? i know it's a hash tag, are there rally, people in the streets two signs? i haven't seen them. >> i have not seen people in the streets with signs. i have known many of the folks in the stop trump movement for a long time. i'm sure you guys have as well. they have been sources. they are -- you know, not quite exactly the republican establishment, but certainly pieces of it. some of them have obviously worked for these previous campaigns, but the movement itself has sort of been undercut by the same thing that has kept these candidates from getting together. it's all these dispirit groups. the one thing i will say is that a lot of the women operatives that i talked to in the republican party -- they're relative small, but growing group of people and they're pretty tight knit. they know each other pretty well. they have the most heart in this stop trump movement because i've heard them say you know what, my
women friends, colleagues, people who care about the republican party, they're not going to be willing to work for donald trump. >> i think the question is is it too late? did they wait too late? because trump swept -- >> good point. >> his victories were resounding. >> are they doing this because they truly believe they can stop trump or they want to say, pat on the back, i was part of the never trump movement. at least i can put it on the business card or resume or whatever. >> i have to tell you, i was at the republican spring meeting last week as well. i expected to find a lot more stop trump people than i was actually able to locate. i think that that's what you had kind of going on. actually, i'm kind of wondering if this applies to delegates too. katy tur who covers trump had made mention earlier today a and -- of the food that was brought in by the trump operatives. i of course was kind of impressed with their overall pitch, their confidence. this is how they were wooing the gathering of delegates. how many undeclared delegates are holding out to go to
mar-a-lago? >> i think maybe are hoping to go to mar-a-lago. one is waiting to hear from the campaign. i'm sure there's a lot more to come. >> i think what we saw with stop trump and with some of the gop candidates is that they waited a little too late. that's one thing that secretary clinton is not doing. we're already seeing her pivot to donald trump, taking him on very affirmatively and lawrence, when we come back we'll talk about that. but i'll toss it back to you for you. >> okay, we'll be back with more from the road warriors. but first, a look at tonight's delegate math. nbc news decision desk has decided that we can allocate tonight 193 delegates to hillary clinton. 132 delegates to bernie sanders. 59 delegates yet to be assigned. on the republican side, at this hour, the latest calculations are, donald trump getting 109 delegates tonight. john kasich picking up five. ted cruz picking up three.
when we began this campaign, we were about 3% in the national polls. we were about 60 points behind secretary clinton. well, a lot has happened in the last year. >> at the convention, the big winners, donald trump and hillary clinton. we go back to the road warriors. jacob soboroff, it is all about the delegates now for donald trump.
>> there's no doubt about that, lawrence. we have seen an amazing shift in strategy on the donald trump campaign. ever seen this happen over the last month or three months from north dakota to colorado, as i was saying earlier. i guess when paul manafort came on board, there was this idea you can't get beat so badly with the unbound delegate, amazing to see the shift that now donald trump is basically mathematically put the race out of reach. just like hillary clinton on the democratic side. >> right. hillary clinton has put this race out of reach. as lawrence is just saying we have that statement tonight from senator sanders which sounded a lot like a concession. he was shifting from fighting for the nomination to fighting to impact what the democrats are fighting for in a general election. the platform. and so what we'll be watching for is this tone tomorrow on the campaign trail. is he going to be attack her? is he going to scale back those attacks? that's what the clinton campaign
is calling for. that speech tonight was focus on party unity we have not heard from her before. >> he talks about i want a $15 minimum wage as part of the party platform. he's been casting that as an attack on hillary clinton essentially saying she came late to this. you know this is what she says now, but it's not what she believed before. i'm interested to see if he scales that back. we saw donald trump suddenly encouraging, giving bernie sanders a little push, maybe you should get in there as a third party, help me out a little bit. >> can i ask you, just as someone who knows the bernie sanders world so well. what happens with all of these bernie sanders supporters now? on a night like tonight, you see this, yeah, he's not out -- if i'm a bernie sanders -- he's not out, but kind of looks like he's out. what do i do now? >> look, bernie sanders himself has said this. he has said, just because i tell all of these people to get out there and vote for me instead of hillary clinton doesn't mean they're definitely going to go it. i think the big question is going to be if in fact he gets to the point where he's conceding or we're clearly
headed into the convention with hillary clinton as the presumptive nominee, is he out there in particular encouraging all of these people to give her money? because he has really done something unprecedented in modern politics. that is figure out how to run a big money race on small donations alone. >> that's what the campaign is saying, look at how secretary clinton conducted herself back in 2008 and then she got on board with the obama campaign. she really rallied her supporters around him. the clinton campaign is making the argument that's what they're expecting to see from senator sanders. of course we're seeing what looks like the contours of a general election match-up. and in addition to what you said, donald trump really went after her tonight essentially saying if she were a woman she -- if she weren't a woman she'd only get 5% of the vote. she came out with a tweet, responding to that. and she used one of her signature lines which is essentially i'm happy to play the woman's card and it's a statement that she made tonight when she gave her victory speech. take a listen.
>> the other day, mr. trump accused me of playing the quote, woman card. well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in. >> so we're sort of seeing the battle lines drawn tonight. i think we can expect to see a lot more of this in the coming days and weeks. but again, neither of these candidates has officially clinched the nomination yet, lawrence. so we head on the indiana. >> a lot of people in the bar and on the campaign trail, our road warriors. kristen welker, thank you guys.
question is hugh hewitt, conservative radio talk show host with the salem radio network. what do we need to know about republican voters in indiana? how is this state different from what -- from the states we just saw vote tonight? >> well, i think you're going to see ted cruz make the argument that he began tonight, that it is up to indiana republicans to save the republican party. pretty soon you'll hear it said, lawrence, that donald trump is nelson rockefeller without the art collection. he's a big old fashioned republican from whom the party was interested in 1964 and ronald reagan campaigned against his entire life, and ted cruz going to make an explicit argument to life long republicans that their party is at stake. i think republicans are out there -- i'm not part of never trump, i'm neutral. i support the party nominee. but i have talked to so many
republicans who are worried of an absolute wipeout with donald trump at the top of the ticket. i want to be very cautious of bias which always happens in the media when ted cruz won wisconsin, everyone thought he was running in the nomination and donald trump had a big night tonight -- he has to get another 170 delegates. so there's at who of hand to hand delegate combat going on here. but i think there's a real few weeks here where the republican party says, are we going to abandon everything that we have become over the last 30 years? just because donald trump taps into our deep seated hostility to the obama administration policies abroad and at home and secretary clinton's manifest unreadiness to be president, the server controversy, the libya fiasco, the egypt reset button. it will be fascinating. >> donald trump's problems in wisconsin started on conservative talk radio with
charlie sykes, a local radio host there. does indiana have that same kind of local conservative talk show host who might find himself in that kind of engagement with donald trump? >> no. but they have got quite a lot of mark levin and mark tonight was making the argument that donald trump is essentially launching a hostile takeover of the republican party and that ted cruz is the constitutional conservative they have always waited for. so mark is articulating this, but he's articulating it pretty much by himself. indiana doesn't have it -- what indiana has is mike pence. national review, the chronicle of all things conservative put out an appeal to mike pence to get off the fence. now, i'm staying resolutely on the fence. i don't know if pence is going to, but i'll make sure to get this point in. if donald trump gets close to 1,237, you might still see, lawrence, the rules committee
enable the republican party to reject him. you might see that kind of -- they would certainly sunder the republican party, destroy their opportunity for a win in the fall, but it would nevertheless preserve that deep conservatism that reagan stood for. so i think anything can happen including a big ted cruz win and an outright get to the nomination. or donald trump could give a speech on the supreme court that says, here are my ten nominees starting with mike lee. i'm going to save the court and rebuild the military. trust me. and persuade enough republicans. i don't know. nobody knows. anybody who says they know is lying, larry. >> now you have to tell me what you know about what's going to happen when it all comes to your state, california, which is where this is really going to be decided. if trump will get enough delegates that's where he has to get them. will he be able to pull that off? >> it's a closed primary, larry. the most important republican out here is governor pete wilson who hasn't been governor for 12 years, been a long time since pete has been in power.
but nevertheless, arnold schwarzenegger doesn't have any swing with republicans out here. it's up to pete. where does he go? it's a very conservative establishment in orange county where i am tonight, it's very pro cruz. i went to an event here a few weeks ago. there are only 20,000 republicans in presars district. i think cruz will do well in california. especially if he gets momentum out of indiana. >> hugh hewitt, thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. donald trump and house speaker paul ryan will be on msnbc later on on "morning joe." stay with us. msnbc's coverage continues after this.
it's wednesday, april 27th. right now on "first look," a clean sweep for the donald, and hillary's wins spell the beginning of the end for bernie sanders. tornadoes ahead as 24 million americans are in the patd of -- path of large wind and hail. meet the boss who made his 2,000 employees very wealthy. plus new details on prince's estate and who will inherit his music and beyond. a new study on dogs and human hugs and start getting excited for the coming summer olympic games. we are just 100 days from rio. "first look" starts right now. good morning, everybody. thanks for joining us today. i'm betty nguyen. the