tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC May 2, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
maine law makers saw this as life and death. that does it for us tonight. again, a really special thank yoto our interoview guest tonight, now it's time for the final word with lawrence o'donnell. >> imagine if you will, and this is going to be hard for you. that you are a low information voter, very, very low. and so you're at a political rally and you're not sure if this is a democrat or republican political rally. what do you think might be one way of guessing which it is? >> um, i'm tempted to say the racial demographic of the audience. >> it could be, depending on where you are demographicly. i would suggest to you, it's all in the audience reaction to the word spanking.
>> ha-ha. >> that gives you everything you need -- >> i can give you an honest answer right here. >> i did want to see your reaction to the word spanking. >> now you have to guess whether your a democrat or republican. >> it's not as easy to see as the one we're going to see in this next segment. when the word "spanking" is used at a political rally. we will be joined tonight by a prominent democrat who supports hillary clinton and thinks that the way she handled her state department email was a serious mistake. also tonight, a leading political conservative is hoping now for a 50 state loss for donald trump if he is the republican nominee.
the end of the republic has never looked better. >> the entire country is relying on indiana to save us from going over this cliff. >> honestly, if we win indiana, it's over. >> ted had a tough week. >> and i want to take that television and smack it. >> eight years ago i said it was time to change the tone of our politics. >> america is a better country without you. >> in hindsight, i clearly should have been more specific. >> are you going to supported donald trump if he's the nominee? >> i am going to beat donald trump. >> donald trump is playing you for a chump. >> will you vote for donald trump if he's the nominee? >> i doubt it. >> you voted for? >> bernie sanders. >> we cannot let barack obama's legacy fall into donald trump's hands. >> he's a disaster. >> we're going to fight for every last vote.
>> i love that. >> the convention will be a contested contest. >> i just have two more words to say. obama out. this is "the last word" on campaign 2016. >> we begin tonight with a political quiz. which presidential candidate said the following words about whom? so, there are two things you have to guess here. who is the person speaking and who are they speaking about? here are some of the words the candidate has used to describe this person. political moron, stupid, dummy. dopey. all right, by now many of you are guessing that this is donald trump's description of someone. actually, all of you are guessing that and of course you're completely right. it's donald trump talking now. here's one more clue about who donald trump is talking about.
dumbest and most overrated political commentator of all time. i know some of you, many of you are guessing that that's donald trump talking about me and you would be right in that he has called me dopey and four years ago, when he was predicting the immediate cancellation of this show, he did say that i was quote and i've got it memorized, the dumbest man on tv and end quote. if you guessed he was talking about me, you came really, really, really close. but in donald trump's world, the dumbest and most overrated political commentator of all time is conservative republicans leading pulitzer prize winning columnest will. he says if the stop trump movement fails, then republicans should join the never trump
movement and then stop donald trump from winning the presidency. george will writes this is a time for prudence, which demands the prevention of a trump presidency. conservatives would have two tasks. one to help him lose 50 states, for his disdain for conservative credentials, including the manners from civic life. george will says that then the republican party's job will be confining president hillary clinton to a single term. today in indiana, ted cruz did something that very few presidential candidates have ever done.
ted cruz spoke to supporters of the candidate he's opposing. >> you the problem, politician. you are the problem. >> can i ask you something? of all the candidates, name one who had a million dollar judgment against him? donald trump -- so you like rich people who buy politicians. >> whers your goldman sacks jacket? i know your wife works there. donald trump is deceiving. he is playing you for a trump. >> and you see there a classic encounter with trump supporters. when he points out donald trump's own history of employing undocumented workers, he doesn't even try to defend, the trump supporter simply changes it to
donald trump being a self-funding candidate and ted cruz didn't bother then to correct that false hood. he has collected $12 million in campaign contributions. the ted cruz campaign, apparently set a record yesterday for youngest person ejected from a political rally. apparently, all donald trump supporters sound like donald trump, including the 10-year-olds. a 10-year-old boy that ted cruz event last night yelled out something that the microphones couldn't pick up but the audience could hear and we will now show you that moment using subtitles. >> apparently there's a young man who's having some problems. thank you, son. you know, i appreciate you sharing your views. one of the things that hopefully someone has told you is that
children should actually speak with respect. [ applause ] imagine what a different world it would be if someone had told donald trump that years ago. [ applause ] you know, in my household, when a child behaves that way, they get a spanking. [ applause ] >> see. you can always tell whether it's a democrat or republican event by how much applause the word "spanking" gets. joining us now, msnbc news reporter.
and the president of the club for growth and rick wilson, an adviser to the anti-trump super pack, make america awesome. rick, what's your reaction to -- what was your reaction when you read that washington post column by george will saying what we need, conservatives need if donald trump is the nominee is a 50-state defeat of trump and trumpism. >> i was heartened by it and it doesn't surprise me. george will is a principaled conservative and he's been one his entire adult life. he's been the voice of this movement since many of us were in grade school and his credentials are impeccable as a conservative. and it was heartening for people who thought for a long time about the devastation he can wreak on both the conservative
movement and the republican party. it's an existential threat if he becomes the nominee. >> how worried are republicans about the down balled effects of a trump nominee? >> very worried. it's one of the reasons we're dedicating a lot of resources to help ted cruz get the nomination. we think he'd do a lot better in the fall. actually, i think he can win and beat hillary clinton. but you won't have places like arizona and utah where hillary clinton has a chance to beat donald trump. we could lose senator mccain in the senate. pennsylvania, wisconsin, florida, new hampshire, illinois are all states where republicans need to keep the senator in order to have a majority in the senate for the next cycle. >> and if trump gets the nomination, do you go silent? what do you do? >> we work really hard to make sure he doesn't get the nomination and i think ted cruz has a good chance to win
tomorrow in indiana and that will put him on a path to win. i can tell you this. we won't support hillary clinton. but we'll probably focus on those senate and house races. the second thing that george will pointed out. they'll need protect what they have in the house and the senate. >> extraordinary moment with ted cruz walking right up to trump supporters and engaging with them despite them first hurling insults at them and it was fascinating to watch. >> reporter: and remember that on the campaign trail, lawrence, cruz has engaged with protesters before. this seemed an ink blot test for how you view ted cruz. supporters saw someone who engaged in what they saw as a respectful and civil manner. trooied to convince them to come
to the other side. people who oppose ted cruz saw him as somebody owned by these trump supporters and 'lyin' ted' and goldman sacks. but it was this microcosm of where this campaign is right now. trump trying to make his case against opponents who are so fervent in their support for donald trump. >> rick wilson, one of the extraordinary events of last week was not just the foreign policy speech, so called but bob corker, actually receiving that speech with some warmth and real positive comment. and when i heard that i looked at what were the election returns in tennessee, in his state and trump won big there. and how much of that effect do you expect to see as we go forward here with senators
checking the primaries results in their state and the polling results in their state to decide what they're then going to say about trump. >> i wrote in heat streak today, you're going to see the republicans on the one hand who thinks there's a political advantage to trump and others who can read and they look at the radiation coming off of him, it's going to damage their races. and when you look at colorado, nevada, with hispanics in the low teens, donald trump isn't helping. he's like an anchor around their necks dragging them down and while trump's people may love that outcome, it certainly -- the self preservation instinct is going to kick in and they're going to put distance between
them sch themselves and donald trump. because they're going to start running ads that describe everyone as a donald trump republican. they're going to start making people answer for all donald trump's idiotic statements and poisonous comments and you're going to end up having to play defense. and that's why will and others have said that we start mounting a separation of messaging of down ballot candidates. i would like donald trump to be the loanliest nominee in history if squeaks it through. because it's going to turn out trump folks and hype up democratic turn out to unseen levels. that's why we want an air gap between human republicans and donald trump republicans. >> your point about trump republicans -- in a second we're going to show an ad trying to label republicans as a trump
republican. you said you think ted cruz has a chance of pulling it off tomorrow in indiana. let's look at the latest poll in indiana. it shows donald trump at 49, ted cruz at 34. john kasich at 13. what do you know about indiana voters and i know you do, but do you know you haven't seen in that poll. >> there are other polls where cruz was ahead. i think what's going on is that there's a big block about 25, maybe more percent of the voters haven't made up their mind and so in one poll, they lean one way and in another, they lean another. he announced carly fiorina. >> how does that help him? >> one of the things that happened is he was having
trouble with republican voters. they knew they didn't like trump. now they realize kasich's not viable and they're "can i vote for cruz?" he works with a secure, strong successful woman and he's going to put her on the ticket. >> you see that as helping him with republican women voters? >> i do. >> keep this show running on time. thank you all for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. coming up, one democratic senate campaign is already trying to turn the republican senate candidate into what rick wilson now calls a trump republican. and in the war room tonight, plotting how hillary clinton can attack donald trump. pet moments are beautiful,
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what is the worst reason you've ever heard for divorce? like, just the silliest reason for people getting divorced? you might hear that tonight in our election confessions segment where someone is confessing to contemplating divorce over how her spouse votes. that's coming up in election confessions. i know how it is. you're all set to book a flight using your airline credit card miles. and surprise! those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want.
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is an ad in the senate race in arkansas, where senator johnbuseman is running for reelection. and they're running this ad in the hopes of turning him into a trump republican. >> sheate like a pig. >> the face of a dog written on the picture. >> blood coming out of her wherever. >> so, you treat women with respect? >> i can't say that either. >> i'll support the candidate regardless of who we pick, donald trump. >> joining us now, liz mayor, and howard dean, former dnc chairman who has indorsed hillary clinton for president.
so, there it is. what rick wilson was telling us is going to happen is already happening. the labelling of senate candidates, certainly house candidates, republican candidates everywhere down to city counsel of labelling them as trump republicans. >> right. i mean, this is something that i think rick does work with our pack also and it's something that really everybody that's involved with our super pack has foreseen for a long time. it's hard to be specific about how bad the damage will be if we do nominate donald trump but it is very clear there is going to we substantial carnage and we're going to have a lot of attack ads that are going to be more brutal, far more credible from a war on women standpoint than anything we've seen recently. this is one of the reasons that i think you hear people from
places like the club for growth talking a lot about the need to focus on down ballot races because frankly, it is going to be carnage in a lot of places i think. >> and l you have to do, the standard for becoming a trump republican is to simply support the republican nominee for president and john mccain, who we know by any reasonable definition is not a trump republican, is subject to this. let's look at this ad on john mccain. >> reporter: donald trump is dangerous
for america. >> i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters. >> but no matter what donald trump says, john mccain would support him for president. >> including donald trump, you would support him? >> i'd like to punch him in the face. i'll tell you. >> 30 years in washington have changed john mccain. we need leaders to stand up to donald trump.
>> i'm ann kirk patrick and i approve this message. >> she's running tied in the polls with john mccain at 42-42 i think. >> the irony is that john mccain, has often been challenged from the right, now he's getting hammered because he's not right enough. voters get tired of people who have been there for a very long time but this could actually end john mccain's career. >> but liz, john mccain, if this continues is simply going to have to make the decision about do
i come out and say i am not supporting the republican nominee for president. >> yeah, i assume that may be where this is going. it's very hard to say definitively. i have no inside knowledge as to john mccain's thought process but having worked to elect him when howard was chairing the dnc. i certainly do think there are a lot of areas where john mccain
has deep policy disagreements with donald trump and it would be very hard for him to say anything that would be defensive of donald trump. i think with other people that's going to be a different equation. obviously, donald trump did win lot of states in the south, including tennessee. so, if you're looking at people in tennessee, their calculation is going to be different but for people who come from mountain west and midwest states, states where perhaps ted cruz has performed a little better or other candidates have performed a little better. i think they know already that donald trump is a liability and there's going to be more of an impetus to walk away from him. >> part of mnefort's answer is don't worry, trump's going to help raise a lot of money for the party and maybe lost in that is the slight of hand that will
totally eliminate any claim that donald trump is self financing because he can't afford a general election campaign and he will be raising money for himself as well as the party. but raising money for the party isn't easy. >> most of the people with lots and lots of money are probably going to invest in the senate heavily. they're going to figure that if trump is going to lose the presidency, that they need the senate as an insurance policy. liz is more of an expert on republican politics than i am. >> i agree with that and to be fair, myself as a donor, i have a history of investing in specific candidates that i like. but there are people who are bigger donors who have said if donald trump is the nominee, they will not doate to the republican party and maybe they'll donate to the nrcc.
but certainly nothing's going into the republican national committee if they remain focussed and nothing will be going into donald trump's campaign and i think that's one of the factors that as ted cruz is going around and focusing on the delegate count, that's one of the factors that is very persuasive in ted cruz's favor. as much as there are a lot of establishment people who don't like him, he's seen as much better. >> if trump gets 1200 delegates and not 1237 and you don't give him the nomination, there's going to be a huge revolution at the convention. >> even if donald trump were walking in with 500 delegates, we would have carnage in the streets and blood because he would insight it. i honestly think that. >> it's a pick your poison convention. >> yeah, it's going to suck. >> coming up, former senator,
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that is the challenge facing the democratic war room in the general election but first, here's how it looked today on the campaign trail. our teams of reporters are stationed around the state of indiana. >> the stop-trump groups are running out of money. >> he could be shut out in indiana and still have a path to 1237. >> it's a poll that donald trump likes because it puts him ahead. >> ted cruz had a hand in strengthening donald trump, he's now pleading with those same voters to view donald trump as a threat. >> sir, america is a better country. >> without you. >> is that guy here with the sunglasses? whoever he is, i thought he was very cool. >> if it doesn't go your way, do you stay in this race? >> we're here for the distance. >> kasich dropped out. now it's your turn. >> we're knocking them out like
corn flakes, right? >> if he wins indiana, it's over. the race is very tight in indiana. secretary clinton has a big lead. the campaign really down playing expectations. >> corporate america. >> he's looking to turn these super delegates. >> or wall street. >> it is rowdy here and he is combative. >> tomorrow, we've got to get out and vote. >> we are headed to a contested convention. >> let us tomorrow have the biggest turnout in indiana history. thank you all.
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>> the leading republican contender is the man who lead the insidious birther movement to discredit the president's citizenship. we cannot let barack obama's legacy fall into donald trump's hands. >> if hillary clinton wins the democratic nomination, the clinton war room will have to contend with something that no other major party nominee has ever faced, childish mocking and ridicule from the opponent. >> i saw the other night, hillary clinton, she's got a teleprompter and we will travel north and south and east and west and i would say that she started screaming at the teleprompter but i'm not allowed to say that. you know why. now, if she was a man, i could say it, but as a woman, ladies, i'm not allowed to say it.
>> joining us in the war room tonight, john, a vet aren are of rick santorum's campaigns and rebecca, you know, a lot of people watch that and say silly, silly, silly. but when you're looking at the monitors in the war room at trump rallies and trump saying these kinds of things, you've got to think very seriously. how do you reply, which things don't you reply to. >> and donald trump can't win the presidency on white men alone. america is bigger than that. so, they have to pick their spots. usually if your opponent says something egregious, you hit him with it but since that's every other word, they go to the audience and hit it home. >> hillary clinton and bernie sanders can argue with each other about whether a given
proposal is adequately funded by what they're doing in taxation or other budget adjustments. this kind of serious accounting. prove to me that your program will work. that sort of thing seems to have nothing to do with dealing with donald trump as a political candidate. so, when you're in the clinton war room and accustomed to challenging whether born bernie sanders has paid for his health care plan -- >> the very first thing you do is say who are we talking to? and this fall i think both campaigns will say we're talking to blue collar democrats and soft and moderate republicans. that becomes the main players in play and obviously, there will be gender targeting as well. but all the rules that have gotten us here are all thrown out the window this year and the fenomina of donald trump, skrou to look at his supporters.
they're very frustrated. they feel disenfranchised from both parties. and the clinton people are smart enough to understand that. >> let's listen to what trump spokesman said about how the trump campaign will or whether it will deal with bill clinton's personal history. >> i think that depends on hillary clinton. this came about because she called donald trump a sexist. and i have to -- it boggles my mind that if a woman is criticized, all the sudden that makes you a sexist. and that's simply not the case. so, if hillary clinton or her team wants to go after donald trump as a sexist, he'll bring that up because there is a lot to discuss that wasn't brought out to the public. >> the war room reacts how? >> they're looking at it and thinking he's a misogynist, of
course we can call him a sexist. >> is it one of those things where you say, we'll keep hillary clinton personally out of that particular line of fire? when he said the woman's card, everyone was getting their woman card online and other times they will let their surrogates hit hard. >> it turned into an amazing fund raiser for the clinton campaign. $2.4 million from 18,000 donors and if you made a donation, you made an actual card. 40% of those donors, john. 40% never made a political contribution in your lives. >> i still think it's a major mistake to engage donald trump directly. that does not work very well for any of the republican candidates
to this point and i don't think that will wirk well for her. when trump does some of the things that trump finds offensive, to his supporters, he sees it as authentic, standing up for the small guy and so, when we see these fights happening, he's in the middle of them, we think it's going to destroy them and what we're finding is it makes them stronger. >> the difference is it's the general election and it's not just republican primary voters. >> and it's going to mean blue collar votes in wisconsin, pennsylvania who are democrats and have not been voting for the republican very well may this year. >> hillary will win those too. >> coming up, in election confessions, is the way your spouse votes -- this is a serious election confession that
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you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knepain, nothing beats my aleve. time for tonight's election confessions and they are as nutty as ever. it seems more people are keeping more secrets about this election than ever before. elections confessions, an msnbc news experiment. you can text them to 434-353-2016. we'll have no idea who you are but we will have your confession. you know what, let's take the lights down for this. this a whole other level of the game here. there you go. here are tonight's elections confessions.
the first one, i live in a family so liberal that when i decided to vote for donald trump, the only one i could tell was the dog and now even he won't have anything to do with me. what do you think i should do? maybe don't vote for donald trump. number two, i'm a liberal democrat in california, i've registered to be a republican to vote for cruz to stop trump. i never thought i'd see the day. and our next one. i was a big bernie fan but his recent negativity turned me off. i still tell everyone i'm for bernie because i'm the most liberal person on the planet but i'm voting for hillary. and then there's this one. this is the big one. i don't know. i don't know what to cheer for there.
and our last confession tonight, our 7-year-old grandson came home from school unannounced. if trump becomes president, i'm going to move to long island. you can see more election confessions at election confessions.com. coming up, bernie sanders says he will try to convince super delegates to change their minds. we'll be joined by a former super delegate who will tell us how easy that is and what bothers him about how hillary clinton handled her email at the state house.
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extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with dbetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. it is virtually impossible for secretary clinton to reach to the majority delegates with pledged delegates alone. i would hope very much that the super delegates from those states where we have won with big margins or in fact where secretary clinton has won with big margins to respect the wishes of those people in the states and vote in line with how the people in that state voted.
>> joining us now former governor of nebraska and former super delegate, bob carry. he supports hillary clinton. so, what do you make of bernie's argument about the super delegates if your state voted a certain way? >> well, that's not the purpose of the super delegates. they're to give you the liberty of voting whoever you want to vote for. >> they're a conspiracy to steal the nomination. >> no. they're a a thing that the democratic party established as a means to make certain that the will of the people gets expressed right. >> how do you do that? >> i have no idea. >> the way it gets expressed right would be the way bernie's saying it, right? >> no, bernie's trailing in all the delegates, except super delegates. if he had won new york, then he's got a case. if he's closing the margin, then
he's got a case but he's not closing the margin. again, if the margin was getting closer. if he had won new york and it was like, oh, my god, i made a commitment to hillary and it looks like hillary could come with delegates close to or more than what hillary's got, then he's got a case but that margin is getting wider. i'm sympathetic to him. i think he's run a very good campaign. but unless something magical happens in indiana -- >> speaking of basically over, the ending of presidential campaigns i find always poignant and sometimes the concession speech is the best speech of a presidential campaign. i'm thinking of a guy who dropped out in 1992 running against bill clinton. let's take a look at that final
moment of the bob carry for president campaign in 1992. >> at the end of the campaign, we were ready to go full throttle but unfortunately we ran out of gas while we have plenty of potential and enthusiasm, unfortunately, we do not have plenty of money. so, it is with regret but with great pride for all that we have done together that i am here this morning to end my candidacy for the president of the united states of america. >> you'll be glad to know that when mark shields and others left the room after what was much longer and eloquent speech, many were saying best speech of the bob carry campaign. what do you say to bernie and others when the tooim comes, that difficult moment? >> it's similar to getting on the dance floor. once you become a candidate, you're in it. once you're out of that plane, there's not a question of can you go back in the plane?
you can hit the ground and the question now for bernie is what kind of landing does he make? i don't think the facts support his saying that he's got a good chance of being the nominee of the democratic party. >> you recognize as i do that presidential candidates are rarely perfect. i afterall, supported bob carry and i learned that lesson vividly. you've criticized hillary clinton, your candidate, for the way she handled the state department emails. >> i think the freedom of information act is an enormously important vehicle. full disclosure, congress exempted itself in 1967 and if that was the case he was making, that's a different matter but that's not the case she's making. and it real is a very important piece of legislation. it was written when we were still delivering mail with
horses and now we have email. but it's a really important vehicle by which citizens get access to the desition making process of the government. >> what was very clear to me was this was not what federal records keeping law anticipated and we actually have one of her stated department -- former state department staffers quoted recently saying it's terrifying for her to know that her emails are now public. if that's your reaction, then you shouldn't have been working in the state department in the first place where all emails are subject to becoming public if they're not classified. >> in an email world has gotten to be much more difficult, so let's change it. i don't have a specific agenda. p you want to change it, then make the case to change it, not
to run around it by setting opserver in your home, unlike what anybody else has ever done. colon powell didn't put a server in his house. i don't think it's central to the difference between her and donald trump. i think there's a lot more important issues than this one. and other examples that i could give where she's made mistakes. but there's a long list of credentials that compels me to support her. >> you were an early indorser of her. there's a lot of tension in bernie world and hillary world and that is the aability to accept that there are things about your candidate that you disagree with or this was a mistake and shouldn't have done that and i wish i was there toed a vise her not to do that. and when you see the anger online from one campaign to other, in the prezumption of
each is that my campaign is perfect. >> you can delivery victory with twitter, online, facebook, there are lots of ways you can delivery victory-like messages. and if it's not sufficiently offensive, like donald trump, nobody's going to listen. a tweet can feel and hurt and i think that's one of the reasons
the hoosiers bring closure. let's play hardball. good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the stop trump movement is on the verge of collapse. ted cruz and john kasich formed an alliance and hoped to set up a roadblock in indiana tomorrow. polls show the new york businessmen to sweep the state. the latest nbc news wall street journal poll of likely republican voters shows trump with a 15-point lead over cruz in indiana. that's tomorrow. cruz is increasingly desperate, of course.