tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC May 3, 2016 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT
good evening, i'm chris matthews, in for chuck todd who will be joining us later this evening as the polls close in indiana tonight. welcome to our indiana primary night coverage. we're less than two hours now from all the polls being closed in indiana, where donald trump is in a position to deal a knockout blow against ted cruz tonight. could indiana make tonight the unofficial start of a general election match-up between hillary clinton and donald trump? we'll find out later. we're also moments away from the
first wave of exit poll results in the hoosier state. we'll get a look at the mood, the makeup of tonight's electorate in both contests, particular and republican. but first, the state of play in the wild races, starting with a dramatic explosion of accusations and insults on the republican side today. ted cruz is lashing out on trump, unloading a torrent of insults today after trump took a bizarre shot at cruz's father. this morning trump referenced a recent conspiracy story from the national inquirer that attempts to link cruz's father to the assassination of john f. kennedy. here's trump. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald, prior to oswald's being shot. i mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. what is this? right prior to his being shot and nobody brings it up. what was he doing with lee harvey oswald shortly before the death, before the shooting?
>> well, now here's cruz. he began his press conference in indiana with this today. >> donald trump alleges that my dad was in involved in assassinating jfk. now, let's be clear this is nuts. this is not a reasonable position. this is just kooky. and while i'm at it, i guess i should go ahead and admit that my dad killed jfk, he's secretly elvis and jimmy hoffa is buried in his backyard. >> cruz then urged indiana voters to vote for him. here are some of the highlights. roll the tape. >> i'm going to tell you what i really think of donald trump. this is man is a pathological liar. he doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. he lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. and he combines it with being a narcissist. a narcissist at a level i don't
think this country has ever seen. donald trump is such a narcissist that barack obama looks at him and goes, dude, what's your problem? the man is utterly amoral. morality doesn't exist for him. donald is a bully, he is lying to his supporters. donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. it is my prayer that hoosiers will come out today and vote today in record numbers, to say to this country, this is not who we are. >> we'll have more from cruz's tirade later in the show. things also got heated with hallie jackson when she asked cruz if his comments meant he wouldn't support trump as the nominee? >> senator, those are some of the strongest words you've used against donald trump today. i'm going to ask you a question and you're going to say i sound like a broken record -- >> well, you sound like a broken record, someone else have a
question? you've asked one already. >> will you support him as the nominee? if you say he's a pathological liar and you say that you can't -- >> hallie, you've asked one today. go ahead. >> things are getting testy. our nbc reporters are fanned out across the state of indiana with rare access inside these campaigns. as you saw there, hallie jackson is with the cruz campaign. and also today andrea mitchell had an interview with hillary clinton. the cruz campaign is settling in for what could be a long unpleasant night after a wild day. i wondered about his refusal to answer your question. i guess it's logical, it was such a damning and i think in this case, probably reasonable response to having your father accused of having something to do with killing president
kennedy, to be angry, but he didn't seem to want to answer the next question, if you're damning him as a pathological liar, are you going to hold his hand in the air in cleveland, when he wins the nomination? should he do so? >> reporter: and this is a question that cruz has not definitively answered ever since the last time we were talking about a tabloid story trump was talking about, involving his wife. so it is not new for cruz to not answer this question. you heard him on "meet the press." in fact, over the weekend, after chuck todd asked him, i think, nine times the question, the campaign is certainly frustrated by that. i think there's a sense that the question keeps getting asked, obviously cruz keeps not answering it. but i have to point out, what we heard from cruz today just felt different than what we've seen from cruz before. part of that is real anger and frustration about trump's
attacks against his father. those attacks on his family, i believe, truly get under senator cruz's skin in a way that other attacks just don't do, that don't have that same resonance. so that's partly it. the other part is the timing and perhaps a growing sense of frustration about how this race is going, about how the narrative has been shaped going into indiana. tonight an important night for ted cruz and one where his campaign is bracing for a loss here, probably in the single digits, is a prediction i'm hearing from at least one top aide. so when you look at the confluence of events that happens today, i think that's why you're seeing the eruption, trying to wrestle back the narrative and talk about what's at stake here in indiana. >> i agree with your reporting there and certainly your asking the toughest question. but if you accuse someone's father of being one ever the assassins of john f. kennedy,
they would naturally have a strong reaction. and we got one today. it's just a terrible thing to say, without any support in fact. >> and the other part of it, too, the last time there was a tabloid story involving his campaign, one of the knocks against cruz from his critics, he has this perception of seeming inauthentic. so in these moments of real emotion, where he's visibly angry, emotional, it's potentially combatting that perception. >> i agree. thank you, hallie as always. we'll turn now to the trump campaign. trump fired back at cruz's tirade, saying, quote, ted cruz is a desperate candidate trying to save his failing campaign. today his ridiculous outburst only proves what i've been saying for a long time, that ted cruz doesn't have the temperament to be the president of the united states. katy tur joins us from new york city. it looks very good for him tonight. i just wonder why did it get so nasty? i mean, accusing a guy's father of being involved in '63, when
he was known to be an anti-castro person, which harvey lee oswald was, on the record, pro-castro. why did he get so nasty right before winning a big primary? i don't get it. >> reporter: you know, this campaign has been personal from the get-go. it's gone through waves of it. donald trump has been gracious at times, calling him senator cruz and then going back to the lying ted routine. as this has come to a head in indiana, and ted cruz has become more vocal in admonishments of donald trump, ted cruz has hit back even harder. we had the heidi cruz, melania trump retweet from a little while ago, spilling the beans on her. talked about ted cruz's birtherism, born in canada, and whether he was eligible to be president. he's been calling him dishonest, he waves the bible high and he puts it down and he lies.
so the rhetoric from the trump campaign and from trump himself towards ted cruz has been harsh and it's been critical for a little while now. this is just, i think, the nail in the coffin for donald trump, the campaign expects that after tonight that this campaign -- or ted cruz's campaign should be over and they will be the presumptive nominee. and if they're not named the presumptive nominee, they're going to start acting like it, regardless of whether ted cruz or john kasich are still in this race. >> here's the question. everyone assumes based upon the polling, our polling especially, the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows a 15-point spread tonight in indiana. and the coffin has been sealed. why does he have to put another nail in it, by accusing his father of being an assassin? what's the point? >> reporter: they say he's a counterpuncher and when he's attacked, he hits back. that's what the campaign says to explain this rhetoric. whether it's necessary at this
moment, that doesn't really seem to be the case. he is winning by a lot. but i don't think we should be surprised that it's getting this personal and i don't think we should be surprised that he's bringing up this sort of stuff. remember, he often said and still doesn't deny that he believes president obama was born in kenya. he talked about thousands of muslims cheering in jersey city. he's brought up discredited internet rumors before, especially when it comes to general pershing dipping bullets in pig's blood and shooting terrorists. so this is not a surprise, but it does seem to be a little bit unnecessary given how well he's doing in the polls in indiana. >> well, unpredictability is his claim he's going to show as foreign policy, but you can't use unpredictability when it comes to telling the truth. anyway, that's my problem with this kind of thing. thank you, katy. andrea mitchell spoke exclusively with hillary clinton today.
in their interview, secretary clinton took direct aim at donald trump, specifically calling out his foreign policy and also on his comments he made to me at a recent msnbc town hall. take a listen. >> when i listen to donald trump say some of what he's saying about national security and foreign policy, even i find it scary. let's open the door to more countries have nuclear weapons, running contrary to decades of american foreign policy, let's punish women for exercising their personal rights. that's have a mantra that wages are too high and -- >> is he unqualified to be commander in chief? >> he's given no indication that he understands the gravity of the responsibilities that go with being commander in chief and that will be a big part of my campaign. because at some point, he's going to have to be held to the standard we hold anybody running
for president and commander in chief. >> we'll have more of that interview with hillary clinton coming up in the show, in this hour. by the way, secretary clinton may be pivoting to the general election as we just saw there. but her rival, bernie sanders, is vowing to press on in the primary fight. here's what he told nbc's chris jansing earlier today about secretary clinton's dominance in the delegate count. >> i think it is appropriate that those super delegates sit and think which candidate will be the strongest candidate in defeating donald trump. and i think the objective evidence is that i will be. we got california, we think we'll do well. we think we'll do well today. but our goal is to win the pledged delegates. our goal is to convince super delegates who may have come on to hillary clinton way before i was in the race, that i am the strongest candidate to defeat trump. >> chris jansing joins us right now from louisville, kentucky where sanders is holding a rally
tonight. what is the sense about bernie sanders' argument about super delegates, she's counting on them, that they should decide now to shift to sanders? what's the argument he's making why they should? >> reporter: so there's two separate arguments, chris. one is, in states where he actual won, that the super delegates that had previously pledged to hillary clinton, should go to him, that they should follow the will of the people. but then there's sort of a contradictory argument he makes, where he says, going into the convention, if he has the lead in pledged delegates, even if he's way behind in super delegates, when you look at the polls that show electability, then they should go with him, because he's the one who does better against donald trump. when i pressed him on, doesn't that take away the will of the people, if they in certain states voted for hillary clinton, shouldn't the super delegates back her? he switched to a third argument
he's been making to the dnc, that the number of super delegates is just too big, that they need to make them smaller, just in the same way that he's been going back and forth with wasserman schultz about independents being allowed to vote. so he's going to move forward, it's clear he's continuing to set up a lot of big events, he's getting thousands of people to come out. but the reality is that even if he pulls out a win tonight, and i'm standing if kentucky, but if you look across the ohio river, there's indiana. even if he pulls out a win tonight, it's not going to change in any significant way where this race stands, chris. >> thanks so much. of course he's against closed primaries, because he wouldn't be able to vote in one. he's not a democrat. we'll have a beilook at the exi polls out of indiana and later, long-time clinton ally, james carville will be here. stay tuned.
breaking news now, right now, we have the very first look at the exit polling of indiana today. according to early nbc news exit poll results, a majority of indiana republican primary voters said the process for selecting a republican presidential nominee this year has been fair. wow. 63% said the process has been fair this year. only 33% says it has not. we're also learning from the early exit polls that a majority of indiana republican primary voters said if no one wins a majority of the delegates, that 1,237 number before the convention, the party should nominate the candidate with the most votes. 65% said the party should nominate the candidate with the most votes in the primary. only 31% said the party should nominate who the delegates think would be the best nominee. we'll have more numbers and full analysis just ahead. you're watching msnbc's special coverage of the indiana primary.
have our first look at the exit polls from the hoosier state. steve kornacki is at the big board in new york with the latest. i'm looking forward to this. we want to know. >> yeah, chris. >> what the hoosiers think. >> first wave of numbers. we can tell you a few things about what this electorate looks like on the democratic side. start with that. the key point to remember, indiana is an open primary state. you don't have to be a register democrat to participate. what we're seeing is that more than 1 in 5 voters on the democratic side are independents tonight. 22% of them. now, as a rough guide, what we've been seeing in all the contests before tonight, a stark divide. among registered democrats in all the contests before tonight, clinton has been crushing sanders. sanders' big weapon has been in independents are allowed to vote in open primary states like indiana, he's been beating her by more than 30 points. that's key to remember. 1 in 5 will be independents in the democratic race.
there's also this, the changing democratic electorate. look back to 2008, the last time they had a big democratic primary in indiana, 40%, just under 40% of the democratic voters back then called themselves liberal. fast forward to eight years later, 70%. this is a state democratic party that looks a lot more liberal now than eight years ago at the start of the obama presidency. on the republican side, this is always a key question. wh wh what percentage of the voters are white, evangelical christ n christian. 55%. higher than average. that's a key point. and also this, the question of party unity, when this is all over, if trump emerges as the nominee, we asked indiana voters will you definitely vote for him? 55% said they would. another 21% said they probably would. so that's 3 out of 4 republicans saying, i'll vote for him if
he's the nominee in the fall. but that leaves 21% saying they won't vote for him. nearly half of them saying they will not support him in november. if donald trump is the republican nominee, he needs to get that number in indiana and elsewhere, he needs to get that number down. that will be his first priority if he becomes the nominee. >> great, steve. we'll see more of you tonight. amy? and chris. amy walters, from the cook report and washington post political reporter and founder of the fix, that's a blog. you know what strikes me, the whole thing is the certitude of people, the absolute nature of the word, liberal. now people are proudly saying it. a big boost in acknowledgement of it. that's the first thing. the other one, i'm not going to
vote for trump. absolute -- i don't believe this stuff, because people change their minds. >> they do. >> what do you make of the certitude of expression to the face of pollsters? >> i think that bernie sanders has allowed and elizabeth warren before him has allowed a lot of democrats to reem brace something they were already feeling to re-establish a definition of what that term meant. it's about economic equality, $15 minimum wage, a rigged corporate system. that is different from what liberal meant 20, 30 years ago. >> what did it mean then? >> i think it was considered something that was outside of the mainstream. >> i'm not sure the facts -- [ all speak at once ] >> i think people's needs have changed. people are more stretched now. they want more government, they don't like to say government, but they want action. >> but on the other end, you see a success, i don't think he's
going to win tonight, but ted cruz's campaign has to be looked at as a success and the basic argument is, there's too much government, we need to get rid of it. so with the liberal thing, i think both parties -- >> they know who they are. >> exact ly. >> the word liberal they're proud of it. conservative hasn't changed. we've heard that since we were born. >> this is not unique to indiana. we've seen people i.d.'ing as liberal, moving up from the 2012 election until now, but amy's right, the willingness to be a standard bearer of that name to, proudly stand up and do that, warren -- elizabeth warren set the pace and bernie sanders in this campaign has seized it. i think it is powerful and has given people a flag to rally around. >> do we have a poll on whether hillary clinton is considered a liberal by liberals? >> she's liked by liberals. but she's not loved, but she's
liked. >> she's doing -- >> is she one of them? >> i don't know. but i think she's -- >> that's a good question, isn't it? ted cruz is a conservative among conservatives. >> 22% say they won't vote for trump among republican voters. is hillary clinton considered a liberal's liberal among liberals? the answer is probably not. is she more liberal and in line than donald trump? yes. this is the same thing with the trump numbers. yes, sure, 1 in 5 people today on may 3rd say i'm not going to be for trump. when the choice is trump or hillary clinton -- >> just like the president on saturday night, steak or fish. >> one or the other. >> a very funny thing, also truthful. let me ask you, on the republican side, people are really melding on this issue, not necessarily positively, but they're becoming accepting of trump. they're saying in the polling, consistently, 2-1, whoever gets the most, forget the 1,237 --
>> winners win. we've been watching this forever. whoever starts getting the momentum, looks like a winner. people want to be on the winning team. no one wants to cheer for the losing team. we all want to be on the bandwagon. that's part of what that is and there's always -- >> did you like that piece this weekend by jeremy peters of "the times," the miscalculation of the cruz campaign. we'll be the last one standing. by the time that happens, there's so much momentum to the other campaign. >> there were a lot more los angeles lakers fans ten years ago than today. >> and with the red sox. >> we see that with everyone. >> kennedy beat nixon and they asked people -- >> you see that in every poll that comes out post election, who did you vote for, obama, 57,
romney, 43. i don't remember that that was the margin, but that's how we think. >> it's a pundit question, not an opinion. who's going to stay in the race longer? bernie or cruz? >> i have an answer, but i want to hear yours. >> bernie stays in. right to the end. he hasn't put the stake in the ground the way cruz has. >> i think cruz gets out sooner. the cruz we saw today is a very frustrated, angry cruz. >> stick around. we'll have more exit poll numbers throughout this hour and as the clinton and trump campaign shift their focus to november, they're doing that certainly. we'll talk strategy. i think that's the first thing. i just said james carville. stay tuned.
betrayed. polls close in most of indiana at the top of the hour and the front-runners are looking past the primaries. we'll hear what's next for the clinton campaign from none other than james carville after the break. but first the cnbc market wrap. >> stocks declining across the board, the dow sliding 140 points, the s&p off by 18. nasdaq falls by 54 points. ford posted its best numbers since april six, however the stock finished about 1% lower. gm saw sales sink by 3.5%, despite strength at its chevrolet brand. shares of gm also dropping about 1%. and etsy reported revenue and earnings that beat estimates. shares are up sharply in after hours trading. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. show me movies with romance.
donald trump is out saying that if you were a man, you would only have 5% of the support that you have. >> he should take a look at the numbers. i'm leading him by millions of votes. so if we are -- if we're going to be talking about the contest between him and me before we even get to the general election, i feel pretty good about it. i'm not going to be responding to his every insult and attack. that's just not what i think this election will eventually come down to. >> that was part of my colleague's interview with hillary clinton today. clinton said she's focusing on the general election, not bernie sanders. >> he says he's going to have a contested convention and go after the super delegates and try to convert them.
what happened to acknowledging the reality, if that is the reality, after the last primary? it sounds as if he's going all the way to philadelphia in july. >> well, look, he has every right to finish out the primary season. i couldn't argue with that. >> james carville, former campaign strategist for president bill clinton joins me now. it's a great time to have you on. i think you emerged as the king of politics back in the early '90s, you came in after the dirty campaign against mike dukak dukakis, saying he wasn't for the pledge of allegiance, didn't believe in the flag. that was pretty dirt ball. but i'm watching trump today saying the other guy's father helped kill kennedy. this is really awful. tell me how they're going to handle this stuff. >> i don't know. i think she'll handle it fine. i watched senator cruz's press conference he had after and i'm
very reluctant to say this, but it's really going to be hard for him to endorse trump, because he kept running through his mind, do i really want to say he's a pathological liar and he would say it. it was really remarkable. trump, remember, started, what he brags about, the whole birther thing, which was nothing -- that's just racism at its core. not much explanation for that. and he still hasn't even apologized for it or anything. so when you start -- when that's where you start, how can you be surprised at anything that you end up with? you can't be. >> let's talk about hillary clinton. you know her well and she trusts you. you'll keep that trust for the rest of your life. that's what i like about loyalists. andrea threw some hard balls at her, i think she respects her job description, to ask tough
questions. how does hillary keep smiling through this flurry of crap, basically? it's one thing after another. >> i think she's been -- andrea like hillary came up and worked hard in an industry that was male dominated and very much -- sometimes i don't like the questions andrea asks me, but we both share a lot of respect for her. this is like the triple crown. we just in -- and hillary knows this, we're just at the kentucky derby. she has the preakness and the belmont ahead of her. she's in a commanding position in her own party. she's a dreamer of wanting to be president, she's going to be the democratic nominee. the republican party seems to be fracturing right in front of them. honestly she's got a lot to smile about right now, i think. >> we keep trying to figure out when will the cut come, like when it will stop being amateur baseball and start being major
league baseball? which will his hair and manner be appropriate? will it be the debates on the podium at the republican convention in cleveland? all of a sudden people say, wait a minute, this guy is the nominee for president? when do you think it will come, hey, wait a minute, this isn't theater, it's for real? >> i think it's already come to 55, 60% of the country. right now, he's not doing well. he's got, you know, highest negatives ever recorded, i think by a presidential candidate. >> that's true. >> to a party of the republican party which seems to be, we started with 38%, seems to be now 50%, he's hitting a responsive chord and in the process, he's literally destroying the party. never seen anything -- it's a 162-year-old party. we've been in politics a long time. it's always been a party of stability. it's the most destabilized, unbelievable thing anybody's ever seen in politics that's
alive today. >> always the sober party, except with rare exceptions. >> right. >> let me ask you about bill clinton. i get the feeling there's an october surprise coming and i'm not sure it's bill. the president will do what he can for his spouse out of sheer loyalty and he's good at it. i get the feeling there's a mutual interest in barack obama barn storming like he's never done in his life for hillary clinton for a couple reasons. one, she will protect his legacy for the next four to eight years. she'll make sure it isn't destroyed, chopped up, humiliat humiliated. and he can use him because he has the support of the african american community. i get the feeling there's a marriage there coming, like when eisenhower pulled it out in '60. the president campaigning for his successor. >> right. and i think the president is like every president in his final year. he really wants to cement his legacy and the republicans under
reagan had a third term. i would argue that the democrats -- gore actually did win the election, but let's put that aside for right now. roosevelt had opportunity before the 22nd amendment, he got elected and i think that is sort of important to president obama, that he leaves and the democrats get elected a third term, which he thinks will put a stamp on it. so far he's been about as helpful as he possibly can be given the fact that it's a primary in a democratic party. so every indication i get is that he's gonna be as helpful as he thinks he can help. >> do you think george w. bush would have conceded under similar circumstances in 2000? >> if he were -- >> conceded on the wrong end of it, if the supreme court had intervened in the race against him, would he have accepted that? al gore did. >> i don't know. i just want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say
yes, but it's a very tepid and unenthusiastic yes. but absent any knowledge to the contrary, i'd have to say that i think he would -- i think gore, as painful as it was for a lot of people, myself included, i think he concluded that was the best thing for the country. i don't know what much he could have done about it, had he not conceded anyway. but as we turned out, i think that the war and deficit -- >> james, you're getting very mild-mannered. >> i'm not getting mild. you know, chris, right now, my side is doing pretty good. >> you should be happy. >> yet it's not a -- i'm proud of her and her campaign. you know, they have not made a lot of mistakes, they've gotten a lot of criticism, but i think they're coming through. by the way, we both know this. she's going to need and want every voter that voted for bernie sanders in november. and there's a lot of energetic people out there, a lot of young people that any political party want.
so she's got a delicate, difficult job to do, not anything close to what the republicans have. but she has a difficult job and there were times in my career where i've been heated and passionate. but right now -- this doesn't last, but right now, i'm pretty happy with the direction things are going in. >> james, thanks so much for joining us tonight. we'll have more on the clinton campaign, ready to fight actually, coming up after this. stay tuned.
>> i've got even more now from the nbc news exit poll, according to early results today, fret% said they would be concerned or scared about cruz if he became president. 46% said the same about kasich. 46% said they would be scared about what trump would do as president. i guess they're scared and concerned about everybody. we'll be right back with msnbc's special primary night coverage.
cavern of insecurity. there's a reason donald builds giant buildings and puts his name on them everywhere he goes. >> it was weird. anyway, ted cruz unleashed what he called his true feelings about donald trump today ahead of the primary. senator cruz said trump's attacks come from insecurity, but after tonight, trump's lead could hit cruise control. joining me now, rick tower, you're in new york, right? >> yes, sir. >> and former biden chief of staff and indiana native, hoozer why himself, ron clean. i was just talking, rick, i have to tell you, i've been watching politics since i was like 5 and i think it's gotten worse. i'm willing to say it. i wasn't around in the 19th century when they caned each other on the house floor, but when you accuse a guy's father of having something to do with killing kennedy, what is the
limit? based upon a national enquirer thing. go on. >> it's a little concerning that the presidential front-runner of the republican party who will hold the nuclear codes, who will negotiate with putin and with north korea or whoever else is in foreign policy, is citing the national journal -- not the national journal -- we like the national journal -- i'm sorry. [ laughter ] not the national journal -- the national inquienquirer as a cre source. if he had quoted the national journal, he might have a case. >> i just think to say something like that, it's just making it up. because there's no substantiation of something like that. and by the way, just to fact check, castro was the enemy of the kennedy administration, we all know that. lee harvey oswald was infatuated
by castro. having a picture of guy, it doesn't make any sense. >> look, i'm a partisan democrat. the first rule in politics, if your opponents are doing stupid things, you got to shut up and let it happen. >> isn't it amazing? >> i think both of them are doing strange and weird things. cruz had a tough week too. called a basketball rim, a basketball ring, which is really a horrible thing to do in indiana. >> we'll get a translation from rick on that in a minute. >> so i don't think either candidate is covering themselves in glory. >> going back to that reference, howard stern discussions today, by cruz in anger, obviously, i don't think he thought this through about his personal behavior, trump's personal behavior, and his familiarity with venereal diseases, the whole thing is unbelievable. >> gosh, it feels a lot like
trump is a good needler of other candidates. even people who are professionally meant to stay calm. he's good at it. got under ant you allowed to show a little emotion. you should. >> something at new hampshire newspaper was trashing his wife. saying she's a potty mouth and all that. most husbands don't know how to react to shots at their wives or their dads. >> the attacks on donald trump should have started back when runs started to see his numbers flip. he started this race, donald trump with republicans way under water. his numbers started to move up.
he started to get strong approval ratings, everybody said you can't attack him now. you should have gone after him then. >> john boehner was asked about the birther story and he was asked what about the people that believe the president was born in kenya. he said i can't tell people how to think. that was the chance. he could have said this is nonsense. the president is american and totally legitimate. he didn't do it. >> he didn't. >> now he's making movies with the president. >> i think all the republicans are coming to regret they didn't take their chance. it's hard to multi-candidate field. you attack the front-runner, you hurt him. you take yourself out. it's a difficult dilemma. you want someone else to do the dirty work. >> if you attack the other guy, they know you did it and vote for the third person.
>> we've seen that. >> nobody had any money. >> rick, let me ask you about your former candidate. what do you think got to him today? i assume he loves his father. have your father accused of being a co-asass sco-asassin. >> i think they wanted to change the narrative. maybe it went little too long. people talked about that. i disagree with the fact that if you attack donald trump, donald trump's not a politician in a traditional when celebrity. that's what happe's a high nameu n' you're going to suffer the consequences. we saw that early on. rick perry. you have to go through the process. you can't come on and attack. it's got to be done in order.e
months ago. like to takelindsey graham twe nominate trump, we'll get destroy and deserve it. this is a very personal problem. >> lindsey graham, like many republicans, has been saying for quite some time, w demographic death spiral. appeal to older white americans if we will win the white house. donald trump is doing exactly that. he's doubling and tripling down on the thing republican autopsy said not to do. >> this is the thing that gets lost. how is he winning? he's averaging 37, it wil last f weeks but betweenf th primary and caucus vote. >> is he only six down in national match up with hillary? >> hillary clinton should be
losing given her numbers. >> the republican nomin and clinton get baked in number. i think there's baked this number against her. >> going back to 2000, recount. >> i think this country is so close to 50/50. it seems to go back to it. what's in our nature that everything is going back to 2000. it's always going to be there. so close. >> i think it is a divided country. i agree with chris. as horrible a candidate as donald trump is, as problematic as he is, he'll start with 45% of the vote or whatever the base number is. it's a closely divided country. it's a country going through social changes, economic changes. they tend to polarize people and divide people.
i think she will prevail in the fall. anyone who thinks this isn't going to be a hard fought campaign, a hard campaign hasn't watched the past 20 years. it will be a battle. i think she will win, but it will be a battle. >> you're able to distinguish yourself as i'm a moderate democrat. now you have to fit into one box. >> you can put the republicans in a phone booth. >> you can put the conservative democrats in a phone booth. i'm stunned by the number of people who identify as conservative democrats. >> 2010 and 2014, effectively, got rid of every moderate to conservative democrat. >> i guess we have to start my show earlier to get you before you go to sleep at night. thank you. we'll be right back after this.
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shoshow me more like this.e. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. we're back with msnbc's indiana primary night coverage. most polls are just about to close, it's 6:00 p.m. part of the western edge will have more hour to vote. stay with msnbc all night as
votes come in. if we win indiana, it's over. >> i'm winning because of what i stand for and what my ideas are. >> they don't know,0 how to mak deals. >> let indiana be the 18th state to demand the political revolution. >> with war of words. >> i'll tell you what i really think of donald trump. this man is a pathological liar. >> i'm not out to stop donald trump. i'm out to stop hillary clinton. >> they will go after her in ways i've never gone after her. >>