tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 18, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
>> well, back to say goodbye, that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm joy reid in for chris hayes. tonight, donald trump is holding his first big campaign rally since overhauling his campaign leadership -- again. and he just did something i don't think he's ever actually done in public. apologize. >> sometimes in the heat of debate, and speaking on a multitude of issues, you don't choose the right words. or you say the wrong thing. i have done that. and believe it or not, i regret it.
and i do regret it. particularly where it may have caused personal pain. too much is at stake for us to be consumed with these issues. but one thing i can promise you this, i will always tell you the truth. >> now, that would seem to contradict the message that trump set with his big new hire -- breitbart news chairman stephen bannon, the campaign's new ceo. he's known for his combative style and provocative politics, more like trump's own instincts. trump has been reading scripts from a teleprompter all week, but the substance is squarely within the breitbart wheel house, stoking fears about muslim immigrants infiltrating the u.s. and invoking law and
order and other racially coded language about crime. >> in addition to screening out all members of the sympathizers of terrorist groups, we must also screen out anyone with hostile attitudes toward our country or its principles, or who believe that shari'a law should supplant american law. the problem, in our poorest communities is not that there are too many police. the problem is that there are not enough police. to every law-breaker hurting innocent people in this country, i say, your free reign will soon come crashing to an end. >> joining me now, robert costa, "the washington post," thank you for being here. you just heard us play back donald trump sort of surprising, mea culpa, saying sometimes you don't say the right words, or you say the wrong thing and i regret it, particularly where it may have caused personal pain.
what do you think he's getting at specifically in all of the things that he's said over the last year? >> donald trump can read the polls as well as his campaign team can. and they're looking at the next 80 days, and they see themselves behind. according to my conversation today, with people close to trump, he's willing to do things that he hasn't done before, whether it's apologizing to voters, whether it's moderating his message, at least in terms of his temperament, because he recognizes he has a problem, especially with suburban voters, women voters, he needs to turn the corner if h wants a shot. >> and you know the way the media typically works, if you give a blanket apology, the next step for reporters is to say, what are you apologizing for? are you apologizing for the muslim ban? are you apologizing for the mexicans are rapists? is he prepared to go down a rod of a series of interviews, assuming he gives them, where he specifically makes apologies for some of these comments? >> i've not seen that so far in my reporting or heard that. could be a possibility. but what i do expect to see is
more of what we're seeing tonight, which, to me, is a mix of the conway influence, and of steve bannon. from the bannon side, the trip to baton rouge. i hear from trump associates, he was recommending trump go to louisiana to talk to people affected by the floods, and the apology, the whole presentation tonight, it's right out of kelly ann conway's playbook. >> tell me what that playbook would entail. we know kelly ann conway has been involved in trying to help republicans do better with women voters. what specific issues that he is suddenly doing a more modulated line? because he's talking law and order in the campaign rallies. is that going to change, or are you talking same message, milder tone? >> kelly ann conway's strategy in past campaigns has often been to connect with female voters. you have to first engage them and have a real rapport with them. and then you can go to the issues you want to talk about and perhaps if you're a republican candidate, sell them on some kind of conservative
ideology. for trump, my reporting tells me she's trying to break through this barrier, that trump seems to keep hitting in the polling, where? women voters remain skittish about trump, and he has to engage them on some level before he can give them the trump pitch. >> and yr paper has reported there is some buzz around republican consultants who are urging the rnc to pull funds away from the trump campaign, concentrate that money in down-ballot races. do you see that as having influenced the campaign, to say, maybe we'd better change direction here? is there anything to the idea that the rnc would actually start doing that? >> well, for trump to do well in states like pennsylvania, north carolina, new hampshire, where there are competitive senate races, he's going to need all the help he can get, because those are very tough races. there's not so much pressure from the republican national committee, reince priebus has been working closely with truck. but when you look at the campaigns of toomey, and kirk
and ayotte, they can't have a big gap between the presidential candidate and their own campaigns to remain competitive. so whether it's coordinated or not, trump has to be part of changing the dynamic of all these races in these states. >> and lastly, do you see this apparent attempt to modulate the tone and maybe court women voters, will the trump campaign repudiate the alt right? because that would mean repudiating brig repudiating breitbart.com. >> steve bannon doesn't characterize himself as someone who is part of the alt-right. the lines are somewhat blurred. he likes to characterize himself as a populist nationalist. some people in the breitbart community see the alt-right that is more perhaps based on race grievance and other issues. breitbart sees itself as political reporting, political coverage and that has a populist
impulse. >> thank you very much. former deputy campaign manager for carly for president. so, sarah, you heard what robert costa just reported there, trump's walkback. he didn't say specifically what he wanted to apologize for. but start where we ended with robert costa, this idea that stephen bannon doesn't consider himself a member of the alt-right, but breitbart.com is pretty openly associated with it, they've written laud tore articles about the alt-right. how could donald trump realistically disassociate himself from something like breitbart, when all the content is right there online presumably for reporters to dig up? >> well, and i don't know that we're seeing a total new campaign here. we have seen donald trump modulate his tone before, when manafort came on. we've seen it happen a couple times and it does last for a few days, and then something sparks
a new controversy and he's back off message. so i'm not quite willing to buy into the new trump campaign just yet. that being said, today at least, has had kelly ann conway's fingerprints all over it in a very positive way. if you watched her interview in the past hour on this network, i thought by far, she's the best surrogate for the trump campaign. it's an extraordinarily smart move to put her in position to be a more forceful surrogate with that title. i think it will be interesting to see what position bannon is going to play in the campaign, because today has been owned by kelly ann. so if bannon is going to play the role some people think he is going to play, then i agree with you, i don't see how he moves away from the breitbart audience. >> i think journalists can't pretend it doesn't exist, you speak to people who have worked with him, and they speak about
his caustic views that he's expressed openly. i have to wonder if a so-called one-day pivot absent some interrogation of bannon, do you think the trump campaign can get away with that by putting kelly ann conway out there? >> we'll see how it all shakes out, but steve bannon basically came on as a senior adviser, but kelly ann conway, as far as we've been told, is running the ship. she's traveling with donald trump, the chief surrogate for the campaign, and let's not kid ourselves, a major problem with the trump campaign to this point has been failures of their surrogates. the surrogates have distracted, particularly this week of all weeks, when they're trying to move forward on a different message. it's been the surrogates who have tripped up the campaign message. so if kelly ann is able to consolidate that, we have yet to see what role bannon will play in all that. >> and they're going to start advertising. a $4 million ad buy across four
states. the clinton campaign having spent considerably more, $61 million. is $4 million a serious ad buy for a campaign with 80 days to go before the election? >> i've said this before, i don't think this election will depend on advertising dollars nearly as much as past campaigns. we have two candidates that are well known, name i.d., as close to a hundred percent as you can get. >> hold on a second. i'm going to hold you off for just a moment. we want to dip in and listen to the donald trump speech in progress right now. >> we are going to work closely with african american parents and children. we are going to work with the parents' students. we are going to work with everybody in the african american community. in the inner cities. and what a big difference that is going to make. it's one of the things i most look forward to doing.
this means a lot to me, and it's going to be a top priority in a trump administration. on health care, we are going to repeal and replace the disaster called obamacare. countless americans have been forced into part time jobs. premiums are about to jump by double digits yet again. and just this week, aetna announced it is pulling out of the exchanges all over. but also in north carolina. we are going to replace this disaster with reforms that give you choice and freedom and control in health care, at a much, much lower cost.
you'll have much better health care at a much lower cost. and it will happen quickly. >> we're back and let's bring in the publisher of the federalist. thank you both for hanging on. sarah, you were in mid sentence talking about this attempt, at least, at a one-day rhetorical move. what do you make of this idea of sort of an apology without specifics. do you think that that alone suddenly changes the minds of women voters? >> no. certainly one day in any campaign doesn't move the electorate, very often at least. but what you're seeing in the speech that we just heard, the segment that we just heard, that speech could have been delivered by any number of republicans. you know, you just change out the voice. it's an extreme effective attack on that business as usual hasn't been working, obamacare hasn't been working, reaching to communities that republicans haven't traditionally done well with. his speech on monday was very good on that as well.
so if that's the direction, it could be a positive one with a number of voters who are uncomfortable voting with hillary clinton, but haven't been able to convince themselves to vote for donald trump. >> that's an important point. "the new york times" has done a lot of work on this idea that there just aren't enough white men in the population to elect any republican, absent getting at least a significant share of the women's vote. and republicans typically win, particularly white women, white married women, without getting some share of voters of color. what do you make of this sudden decision to talk about working with african american parents. that's a sudden and marked shift for donald trump. what do you make of that? >> one of the interesting things about this cycle, you would think that trump would be doing better with african americans than he is. he's doing so poorly at this stage. i wonder if that message is in part meant to be delivered to college educated white americans who are concerned about voting for a candidate who might be viewed by some as being -- as
tit is to reaching out to black communities who have not experienced a lot of recovery in recent years. >> i think you're right. voters don't want to vote for a party that's labelled as being racist. i would think you're really smart to talk about that, but let's dig a little bit deeper into this question of trying to, in one speech that he's giving right now, sort of soften the image. we know donald trump is doing terribly not only with voters of color, but also with women, and he's even losing among white voters. the steven bannon hire the day before this kelly ann conway orchestrated pivot, is there any way to hide the alt-right under a bushel enough that white college educated voters don't notice it? >> this is the thing that i'm just unsure about. because i'm really not sure how
we're going to see steve bannon's fingerprints reflected in this campaign. we don't really know yet, in part, because he has no campaign experience. he's never worked on a campaign at any level. so i think listening to his tone tonight, it's certainly going to be encouraging to a lot of republicans. but the question, how long are we going to see this tone play out? we've seen trump do this before, where he can sound presidential for one speech, but then he returns to the kind of speech he used in the primary to great effect. and for someone in politics for a short period like trump, he falls back on the things that gotten to this point in the first place. >> all the reporting you've heard about trump, he's unhappy being scripted, being constrained. he wanted to be the free-wheeling guy that makes him feel good. so isn't it more to be expected that he returns to trumping within the next 12 to 24 hours? >> i think that's true.
it's true for all of us. when i get tired, i become more of myself. i retreat to my sort of safe zone. i think when trump feels trapped, when he feels scared, insecure, when he's down in the polls, of course you see him revert to what he is most comfortable doing. that being said, kelly ann conway is a persuasive person. and she's in his ear every day. and we're seeing that today. we'll see. >> we'll see. i think it's going to be a challenge for the media too. because you can't pretend the entire last year didn't happen. thank you both. still to come, why big crowds don't always equal big turn-out. a cautionary tale for donald trump ahead. but first, the new efforts by the gop in north carolina to suppress voters. that story is coming up. before we go to break, some breaking news and a big announcement tonight. hillary clinton and donald trump will appear back to back in a commander in chief forum that will air in primetime on msnbc
and nbc on september 7th. the forum will take place in new york and the event is the first of its kind. it will be hosted by the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america. the two candidates will answer questions from nbc news and an audience that includes military veterans and active service members. again, commander in chief forum. both presidential candidates in primetime on september 7th on msnbc and nbc. we'll be right back. . here... or here. today, there's a new option. introducing drug-free aleve direct therapy. a tens device with high intensity power that uses technology once only available in doctors' offices. its wireless remote lets you control the intensity. and helps you get back to things like... this... this... or this. and back to being yourself. introducing new aleve direct therapy. find yours in the pain relief aisle.
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it. and i do regret it. particularly where it may have caused personal pain. >> joining me now is democratic strategist brad woodhouse. what did you make of that unexpected, very broad kind of apology from donald trump for i'm not sure what specifically? >> well, look, i don't -- i don't take it to heart very much. i mean, if you listen to the crowd, they didn't even believe it. they started chanting "trump, trump, trump." they kind of smiled, like wink, wink. he didn't apologize for anything specific. it was very tortured. it sounded like it was something he was urged to do to prove this latest campaign shake-up represents a real pivot. but i think it's hard to take somebody at their word that they
regret anything, who has so repeatedly offended people and lied throughout the course of the campaign. >> the other piece of this is this contradictory change in the campaign, to hire somebody like stephen bannon, who is, whatever he wants to call himself, is very much associated with the alt-right. breitbart.com has been the source of conspiracy theories that somehow wind up almost always being directed against african americans, muslim americans, immigrants, and in really pretty ugly tones. and you bring that guy on board, and we're told he's now listening to kelly ann conway and saying things that sound softer for women and suburban voters. that's very contradictory. but as a strategist, do you think it makes sense? >> well, look, i think it makes sense if donald trump wants to be believed as a real candidate for president, for him to soften his tone, to try to expand his vote. what is contradictory, as you suggested there, is bringing on, you know, the editor of breitbart, bringing on someone
who has, you know, lived in these conspiracy theories. you know, you're talking about a publication that is very anti-jew, very anti-black. so i don't understand how that push and pull is going to exist. my guess is that trump will eventually retreat to his instincts, which are bannon's instincts and not conway's instinc instincts. >> this is donald trump also talking in charlotte tonight in this rally and making a pitch for african american voters. take a listen. >> we're going to reject bigotry, and i will tell you, the bigotry of hillary clinton is amazing. she sees communities of color only as votes, and not as human beings worthy of a better future. it's only votes. it is only votes that she sees. and she does nothing about it. she's been there forever and
look at where you are. if african american voters give donald trump a chance, by giving me their vote, the result for them will be amazing. >> your thoughts on that? >> well, that is completely outrageous. i mean, let's remember here, here's someone who was in wisconsin the other day, talking, you know, talking about a -- a good game about the african american community in front of an audience that was 95 to 99% white. he's rejected every invitation to speak before african american audiences, naacp and others. and here's someone who lived in birtherism. joy, this birtherism against president obama was nothing more than a dog whistle to tea party voters at the time, to say that the president is other. he was other. he was muslim, he was kenyan,
and he was black. so this is an unbelievable from donald trump. you can't trust him on these issues. and this suggestion that somehow hillary clinton is only out for votes, this is someone who was involved in helping women and families and children long before she had any eye on politics. so i would trust her core on this a lot more than i would ever trust donald trump's. >> thank you for coming in and taking on some of these other issues that are taking place, while donald trump is in north carolina. we have to talk about your brother, dallas woodhouse, sent out a message to the north carolina county board of elections in the wake of the kitchen sink voter law, the voter i.d. law that was passed and overturned in the state of north carolina, essentially urging them to -- they can and should make party line changes to early voting, essentially urging the county elections boards to make changes that make it harder, essentially for
african americans to vote. you excoriated him for that, by the way, but what do you make of it? >> i did excoriate him for it. and before i go on, i want to be clear that, i don't believe that my brother is a racist. in some ways, joy, i almost regretted weighing in on this today, because this is not about me -- not about me and my brother and what he is doing in north carolina. this is about an attempt that has been going on for years now, obviously decades, it's been going on, to suppress the african american vote. but this issue of rolling back early voting that has succeeded in getting more people to the polls, has been something that has gone on for so many years. i've spent five years at the dnc, working with our voter protection unit, to highlight these type of things, that are clearly intended to make it harder for african americans or young people, or people that would tend to vote democrat to vote, but disproportionately, these things hurt african
americans. and i was disgusted when i read the e-mail that went out from the party, that went out from my brother, that, you know, that was obviously intended to restrict voting among this cohort of people. and joy, it wasn't me. it was the fourth circuit court of appeals when they overturned the previous law that said that the republicans were, with surgical precision, trying to prevent african americans from being able to vote. >> yeah, absolutely. we appreciate you being on to talk about this. >> thank you, joy. coming up, down in the polls, trump is turning to a new marker of success. look how big his crowds are. how that's not turned out so well for politicians in the past coming up. words we at panera live by. because clean food is food as it should be. with no artificial flavors, preservatives, sweeteners, and no colors from artificial sources. we think clean food tastes better, feels better, does better.
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lot of people trying to get in, and downstairs there's a room and it's loaded with people. it's almost this size. and we're really, we're really doing a job. >> donald trump likes to boast about the size of the crowds at his rallies. and make the case that they reflect the strength you just can't see in the polls that show him losing by a significant margin. but history shows that rallies aren't a reliable indicator when it comes to who wins an election. walter mondale pointed to the size of his crowd in boston and claiming there's a smell of victory in the air, and we went on to lose 49 of 50 states. four years ago, the mitt romney campaign drew confidence from huge crowds in pennsylvania, only to learn they ultimately didn't mean much. this year, bernie sanders' supporters pointed to his massive rally in brooklyn, to argue sanders was stronger than the polls showed. no, he lost by 16 points. joining me now, senior political analyst and writer for 538.
thank you both for being here. i have to start by asking you, my pollster friend here, what do you make of this idea of trying the rhetorical pivot, which we're told is engineered by kellyanne conway that he's to say soft words, like i've said wrong words, does that work? >> it can't hurt. he's polling at 2% amongst african americans, so it can't hurt. but remember, trump has a long history of rhetoric. i was talking with a cab driver, african american cab driver in washington, d.c., long before trump ever did anything, and he remember the central park jogger case where trump had that ad in the newspaper. it's going to take more than just words, it's going to take actions. but perhaps this is at least a start. >> we want to talk about this polar trutherism. you had an interview with an
attorney for donald trump. because the other thing trump tried to do tonight, as harry was just saying, to make these pivots about the african american community. michael cohen was involved in that in the past. >> right. i spoke with michael cohen a couple months ago and he had led an effort to, as they described, get 100% of the black vote. donald trump does nothing small. you know, it was centered around these hundred black evangelical ministers and pastors they brought into trump tower. and omarosa is technically leading his black outreach effort. but michael cohen said to me, he was instrumental in finding these pastors and putting them together. i spoke to him after this viral cnn interview that he had this week and he pointed to two reasons that eight don't believe the polls. one was crowd size, and the other s, he said, look the 1%, single digit number with african americans, i'm talking to these hundred guys, they love donald trump. >> and just in case people aren't familiar with the michael cohen epic, viral video
interview on cnn the other night, let's see a clip of it right now. >> you say it's not a shake-up, but you guys are down. and it makes sense -- >> says who? says who? >> polls. most of them, all of them. >> says who? >> polls. i just told you, i answered your question. >> okay, which polls? >> all of them. >> you crunch numbers, is it possible that 100% of the polls say one thing, but the opposite is true, that crowd size actually can be a substitute for the kind of data that you crunch at 538? >> the polls could be wrong, but crowd size doesn't tell us anything. you cited mondale in '84, george mcgovern in '72, mitt romney last time around. each losing candidate points to the crowd and says, my god, we'll pull a harry truman, oh, my god, the crowds are fantastic for me, and then he lost to joni
ern ernst. the polls are the way to go. kellyanne conway knows what she's doing and she says trump is behind. >> do pollsters have a political bit they go into, formulating their le the other? >> this is ridiculous. these are people with professional reputations on the line. they get paid to be right. they don't get paid to be wrong. there's no grand conspiracy. they want to get it right and they have historically gotten it right and my guess is, they're right right now. >> hunter, yet you do see this pervasive dismissal of the idea of polls. polls as a conspiracy, what you mile call poll trutherism amongst trump's supporters. >> i think there's a little bit of a disconnect and i've traveled around the country. i think liberals in the coast and the cities think, oh, the media is enabling trump, this isn't real. and you know what, it might be
20 or 30%, but he really does have a base. he's really activated something in this country. on the other hand, when you go into his rallies, they're like, look, we're all here. it's huge. this is a movement. and the truth is really somewhere in the middle. one thing people screw up a bit, you have national polls. and some of them just show a single digit difference. but then you look at the electoral map and it's really hard to see a path to victory for donald trump. whereas the difference between the two parties nationally might be small, that's not how we calculate the winner here. >> and that is important. because the national polls don't really mean all that work because that isn't the way the elections work in the u.s. >> if you tally up where hillary clinton has the lead, it totals 273 electoral votes. it's difficult for donald trump to get to 270 is hillary clinton is already over it. >> thank you both. appreciate your time. still to come, what we know about the truly bizarre
unfolding story of ryan lochte's alleged robbery. and later, meet the right-wing doctor pushing the conspiracy theory about hillary clinton's health, and that doctor's connection to the new head of trump's campaign. that and more ahead. ♪ (vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. get zero pernt on select subaru models during the subaru a lot to love event, now through august thirty-first. will make jet warehouses even andmore efficient...king robot and save shoppers money. genius! (smoke alarm sounds) oh no... charlene!... no, no. shh... at jet.com, we're always looking for money saving innovations.
oh, look at you, so great to see you! none of this works. come on in. >> i think as you know, our prison system is a disaster. a complete disaster. all over the country. almost everything we have, chris, if you want to know the truth, is a disaster. >> really? i think we're better than that. >> i think we can do a lot of privatizations, and private prisons, it seems to work at lot better. >> thing 1 tonight, donald trump arguing that private prisons work better. there have been large-scale investigations at odds with that assessment. including dozens of questionable
deaths at private prisons. a rash of stabbings, a prisoner escape and a prisoner who lost both legs to gangrene. just last week, a review from the inspector general concluded that private prisons had higher rates of assault, both by inmates on other inmates and by inmates on staff. today this happened. these charts shows shares of the two largest for profit prison korpping corporations in america over the first five days and that steve drop-off that you see represents what happened to these two stocks today. i'll tell you why in thing 2 in 60 seconds. matters. both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks.
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>> they pulled us over, they pulled out their guns, they told the other swimmers to get down on the ground. they got down on the ground. i refused. i was like, we didn't do anything wrong. so i'm not getting down on the ground. and then the guy pulled out his gun. he cocked it, put it to my forehead and said get down, and i put my hands up, i was like, whatever. >> now that was the story that ryan lochte told nbc's billy
bush on sunday, claiming that he and three teammates were robbed at gunpoint in rio. tonight rio police claim that's not what happened. according to them, lochte and his teammates left a local club in the early hours, got in a cab, and stopped at a gas station, where someone in the group vandalized the bathroom. they apparently tried to leave, but were stopped by gas station security guards. one of whom pointed a gun at the swimmers. the swimmers finally left after paying the gas station for damages. now ryan lochte's already back in the u.s., but two other swimmers were pulled off their flight last night and questioned by rio police for hours today. moments ago, reuters found those two swimmers back at the airport again. and it's unclear where they were heading. joining me now, sports editor at the nation. his latest piece, ryan lochte is one of many privileged first world tourists and brazilians are fed up. already, dave, this has been one bizarre story, that started out with ryan lochte claiming he was
lobbed. that story started to look sketchy and fall apart. he stood by it, cnged some details. at this point, what do you make of it? i'm somebody with a healthy skepticism of police. you listen to the police account and you want to have the healthy skepticism, but what do you make of it? >> we have closed circuit tv footage that's been played in brazil at this point. so we do know that the story that ryan lochte told simply isn't true. we also know that he said that robbers who -- originally he said they were dressed like police, took his wallet. yet you can see him on more closed circuit tv putting his wallet on a medal connector when they come back to olympic village. and there's the fact that he high-tailed it out of brazil, leaving his three compatriots back there to deal with police questioning. so none of this looks good for ryan lochte. none of these people face any sort of jail time. all of this is misdemeanor stuff. but i can tell you from being in
rio, what these guys have done, what lochte has done, is absolutely step into the vortex of every brazilian sensitivity right now about hosting the olympics. that's what makes this such a huge story. because being down there, people are very upset about the plunder that the olympics have brought to rio, about the pain that it's brought, about the fact that billions of dollars are going to the olympics when schools and hospitals are in disrepair. but paradoxically, they're also proud that even though the country is in one of its worst economic crises in decades, they're holding it together, they're hosting the olympics, they're trying to make it work, and here is one of the most famous olympians in the world basically saying, yeah, i was held up by the police and then, oh, by the way, my sistertory's different. so he represents this real stereotype that people in brazil have of the ugly american who comes to rio and treats it like their spittoon of debauchery.
there's an old expression, there's no sin below the equate or, that was coined in western europe about rio and people there resent the fact. >> i have to get your response to the quote that these kids were just trying to have fun. let's take a break. these kids were trying to have fun. treating ryan lochte, who is 32 years old, as just a kid trying to have fun? >> remember from donald trump jr was called a good kid, he's 38 years old. why do the white men among us get to be called kids at 38, when tamir rice is a man at 14? >> well said. thank you. up next, the doctor peddling the latest hillary clinton health conspiracy theory.
[record scratch] announcer: don't let salmonella get funky with your chicken. on average, one in 6 americans will get a foodborne illness this year. you can't see these microbes, but they might be there. so, learn the right temperature to cook each type of meat. keep your family safe at foodsafety.gov. donald trump is still trying to keep the baseless conspiracy theory over the state of hillary clinton's health going. and now he's getting some extra support. dr. tv's dr. drew pinsky of celebrity rehab fame, who's now voicing his concern over the quality of clinton's health care. >> it just seems like she is getting care from somebody that she met in arkansas when she was a kid. and i just -- you got to wonder. you've got to wonder. and it's not so much that her health is a grave concern, it's that the care she's getting could make it a concern. >> quick fact check. hillary clinton moved to arkansas when she was an adult,
but nevertheless, pinsky's comments were snatched up by those on "fox and friends," and asked for comment on one newt gingrich. >> i'm always dubious, with respect to television doctors, when you have a doctor who has never seen the patient, begin to give you a complicated, fancy-sounding analysis based on what. i think we have to recognize, that's kind of junk medicine, that's not the real deal. >> voice of reason, newt gingrich. joining me now, jane newton small, and samantha allen. and one of her recent story profiles the doctor who's peddling this latest hillary health conspiracy, a favorite of the breitbart website. thank you both for being here. and i'll go right to you on this, samantha. tell us about this doctor, who's sort of cooked up this conspiracy theory. >> you know, we're getting to the point where hillary clinton could sneeze and people would say that she had a heart attack. this doctor, her name is dr.
jane orient, she's with a group called the association of american physicians and surgeries. so when she raised questions about hillary clinton's health, it's like breitbart said, look, the executive director of a physician's association is worried about her health. but when you look into that organization, it's a small, conservative libertarian nonprofit, based in tucson, with only about 5,000 members. and for comparison, the american medical association has well over 200,000 members. so this is not an authority on hillary clinton's health, by any means. >> and jane, some of her other sort of positions that we know about this woman, dr. jane orient, she -- the group that she is a part of, suggests that abortion causes breast cancer. that vaccines cause autism. we could go on. they also opposed, of course, the hillary clinton attempted to make health care plan of 1993. what do you make of this person becoming kind of the authority along with dr. drew behind this conspiracy theory. >> anytime you see a doctor who
tries to diagnose somebody from television or tries to diagnose somebody who's never actually seen this person in their physical presence, it's always kind of a disaster, right? it was not so, eight years ago, you had bill frist, who was senate majority leader, who based off of videos, diagnosed terry schiavo, as someone who was not brain-dead. and of course, years later, when teri schiavo finally died and the conservative fight to keep her alive failed, it turns out she was brain dead. but bill frist was a legendary transplant surgeon, what did he know? someone who's a doctor for celebrity rehab, who's essentially a nutritional doctor trying to diagnose a head trauma is like me trying to write about wall street. like, i kind of know a little bit about wall street, i read the news every day, but by no means am i an expert. and that's ludicrous you would ever have me on to talk about wall street. >> let's listen to donald trump in action, talking about this conspiracy, doing it with sean
han the ty, sort of in way of full concern for her health. >> let me say, she's totally protected. i've never done that much about it. >> by the media? >> she doesn't do that much. she'll give a speech on teleprompter. then she'll disappear. she'll go home and goes to sleep. i think she sleeps. >> yeah, takes weekends off. >> i guess she takes a lot of time off. >> samantha, that's one of the areas where he or his folks are a bit more explicit, claiming there's something physically wrong with hillary clinton. in your reportage, is this doctor, this dr. jane orient, somebody who is talking to the campaign? is she communication with stephen bannon? what's her connection to trump world? >> she had some nice things to say about clinton supporters, but when i asked her if she was a trump supporter, she said the question was irrelevant. >> that her question was relevant? >> yeah, but it is relevant that the association of american
physicians and surgeons spent the better part of the 1990s in a legal battle with the clinton administration, over hillary clinton's health care plan. so there's political involvement there. >> and jane, what could be the fallout of this kind of a line of attack against a woman candidate, briefly? >> well, this is the kind of attack where it's like when donald trump says, oh, she's too old to be president, but he's actually six months older than she is. it's an attempt to make her look weak, to make her look frail, to make her look incapable of doing the job. it's, frankly, crazy. you can't diagnose somebody off of television, essentially, and then say they're unfit to do the job physically, when there's plenty of evidence she has a very grueling schedule and clearly manages that schedule very well. again, it's an attempt to undermine her. >> and you've seen this sort of pivot, where apparently in the kellyanne conway era of the trump campaign, so, yeah -- do you expect, jane, very quickly, for them to incorporate changes in this narrative into that? >> look, kellyanne conway, i've
interviewed her a bunch. she's an expert in getting out female voters. >> we'll see. >> this is clearly targeted at getting women to see hillary as weak. >> jane newton small and samantha allen, thank you very much for both of you. i'll be back tonight at 11:00 p.m. eastern. don't go away, especially, because rachel maddow starts right now. good evening, rachel, who is in perfect health. the picture of health. >> and not at all weak, despite my unfortunate femininity. >> it doesn't help us, does it? >> no, it doesn't. it's also a joke. thank you, joy. appreciate it. >> take care. >> people say, you know, there aren't have many women in your business. how'd you get to be a woman in the position that you're in your business. i say, well, you know, some people think i look like a dude, and that helps! i'm sorry, mom. my mom gets really mad whenever i say that. but there you go. thank you for joining us this hour. it's good to have you here. at the two nominating conventions for the two major