tv Lockup San Antonio - Extended Stay MSNBC October 1, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
i'm tamron hall, thanks for watching. >> i guess the worst part about gangs is paranoia. it's like a virus. it invades. >> former gang members attempt to leave deadly rivalries behind. but for some, the past is anything but resolved. >> i don't think no one could ever take this pain away. >> the men in another housing unit deal with a completely different set of issues. >> you have your masculines that are more manly looking.
>> are you masculine or fem? >> i'm gay. i'm gay. >> then you have your fems. they act like girls. >> fems to the fem side and masculine to the masculine. we don't let them intertwine because you are asking for problems. >> a surprise contraband raid turns one housing unit upside down. >> inmates are very crafty, and there are thousands of places where narcotics can be hidden within the units. >> anyone accused of a crime in san antonio will most likely pass through the bexar county jail. >> got to spread out on the wall right here.
remove your shoes and socks and put them on the floor behind you. >> some will make bond and leave, but on any given day, about 3,500 men and women are housed here awaiting trial or resolution of their cases. deciding in which of jail's 84 housing units to place each inmate is a complex process known as classification. >> every inmate that comes into our facility is interviewed by a classification officer. so our class officer are trained to try to figure out where do we house this person where we will have the least amount of problems. so they're looking for things like is he mentally ill? does he have any medical issues? >> any problem with seizures? >> no, ma'am. >> suicidal? >> no, ma'am. >> gang related? >> no, ma'am. >> homosexual? >> no, ma'am. >> of all these factors, arguably the most critical to reducing violence is determining if an inmate is a gang member. >> if they confirm him as a gang member, the next question is, is he a threat? >> when did you get picked up by
the orejones? what year? >> i don't know. two years ago. >> the most common way to identify a gang member is through self-admission. simply by asking. >> why did you start hanging around with these guys? >> only ones that shown me love in here. >> the violence comes in when rival gang members meet up with each other. so we go out of our way to keep them separated. unfortunately, that's -- as hard as we try sometimes, we don't catch all of them. sometimes we will put them in the wrong place. that's typically when the fights erupt. >> stay on the floor! >> this was the scene following a riot in which inmates from the mexican mafia fought with members of their archrivals. the tango orejones. >> the next person to talk will be tased. >> sometimes they slip through our fingers. you know, gangs are groups of opportunity. they're going to group together. once they see their numbers are
large enough, they become very territorial. from there, it tends to develop into a dangerous situation. >> while rival gangs can pose a threat to each other, they often reserve their harshest punishment for members who drop out and enter the jail's protective custody program. >> almost all gangs believe there is only one way in and one way out of their gang. that is through violence. we tell any ex-member of any major prison gang, your life is in danger. there is somebody out to get you. it is going to happen. >> that's the way it goes. those are the rules. you are in it for life. or you are dead. >> because of threats he faces for leaving the mexican mafia, victor asked that we only use his first name. he is housed in a unit made up entirely of inmates who have chosen to leave their gangs. >> i guess the worst part of
gangs is paranoia. it's like a virus. it invades. sometimes people hear things that weren't said. sometimes people see things that didn't really happen. as an end result, a lot of innocent people have died. i just got tired of all the lies, you know, all of the backstabbing, all of the politics, paranoia. i just got tired of it. >> victor joined the mexican mafia while serving a prior 23-year prison sentence for kidnapping and aggravated assault. a recent parole violation has landed him back in jail where he has adopted a fatherly role with some of the younger ex-gang members in the unit. >> you want to do it in the right way, legal way. >> i'm too old. i can't be doing it. >> can't be going to prison at this age. >> among those victor counsels is johnny robles, who is charged with attempted capital murder and theft. he pled not guilty and is awaiting trial. >> you get to a point where you have got to make a decision.
is this the type of life that i want? >> i have to first of all be willing to change my life. you know what i mean? >> robles joined the tango orejones during a prior stay at another texas jail. >> i didn't like the idea of them trying to run my life. i felt like a puppet. i told them i wanted to get out of the gang. i was coming back from eating dinner, and by the time i knew it i had two guys. one hit me on one side. the other one hit me on the other side. they went to punch me, hitting me, kicking me. i woke up the next day, and i was in the hospital. and not knowing what else they did to me. not knowing what else they did to me. i am glad that i finally got out. not having the orejones telling me who i can and who i can't talk to. >> amen. >> amen. >> while the ex-gang unit might
seem like an island of tranquility, that is not always the case. inmate tim gaffney has been in the unit for 2 1/2 years and still doesn't take any chances. >> my eyes are red because i don't ever close my eyes in the shower. that is just the golden rule. when you shower, you leave your eyes open and always keep your back toward the wall. you can see who comes and goes. because bad things happen in the shower. >> gaffney, who has pled not guilty to capital murder and is awaiting trial, is a former member of the white supremacist gang, the aryan brotherhood. >> i climbed the ranks pretty quickly. by climbing the ranks, you come with a lot of responsibility. you don't ever know who wants to kill you for your position. i have done a lot of things. i'm not proud of any of it. and but when i was young, i
thought that was the norm. i got wrapped up in prostitution, drug ring, guns, the fast money, and before i knew it my life was just a downhill spiral. one thing led to another. next thing i know i am on drugs. >> gaffney says he was drawn to the aryan brotherhood because they shared a foundation. >> i grew up with the hate, hate in my home, of black people, black people, black people. that's all i knew. and seeing that growing up, i thought, hey, man, that's what it's supposed to be like. well, instead of turning to the kkks, i turned to the aryan brotherhood. i look at it like, if you are going to do something with a hood over your face, no sense in doing that. stand up for what you believe in. >> coming up -- >> it is one of our interview questions when they first come in. we will ask them are you currently a homosexual. >> life inside another one of bexar county's specialized housing units. by choosing flon,
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san antonio's bexar county jail houses an average of 3,500 men and women. there are separate housing units for active and ex-gang members. but that is just the start. the jail also attempts to identify and segregate gay inmates in their own housing units. >> it is one of our interview questions when they first come in, we ask them are you currently a homosexual. if they say yes, we have to give them the option to house in the homosexual unit for safety and security. if they feel they cannot house in the general population. they have the right to go to the homosexual unit. >> within the homosexual unit, inmates are classified as either masculine or feminine. >> so are you masculine or are you fem? >> i'm gay. i'm gay. >> okay. >> not me, honey. i am fem.
>> you've got your masculines that are more manly looking but straight acting, straight looking. >> he asked me to massage him. >> okay. what's really going on? >> then you have your fems that are -- some of them take hormones so they act like girls. they live their life as women in the word. transsexuals, drag queens. they're walking around with bras, thongs, things in their hair, being real dramatic, loud. 80% of the fights are the fems. shut the [ bleep ], [ bleep ], [ bleep ]. that's [ bleep ]. that's [ bleep ]. >> though eloy orosco is housed
with the masculine group, he was once classified as feminine at an earlier stay at bexar county. >> this time around i butched up a little bit and said i was masculine. and they put me in the masculine group. i don't want to be with a bunch of drama queens and girls. i'm trying to be with the masculine group, with the boys. >> starting at age 16, orosco has been in and out of the bexar county jail. he was recently convicted for burglary and is back now after violating parole. orosco believes his experience in jail has made him a leader in his unit. >> a lot of people look up to me and come to me for advice. they know that i am in and out of the system. in some cases the emotions get lost. as far as in the system. maybe you ought to try to go back to the law library and get another motion. do that again. nothing goes down without me knowing. if there is an altercation, they will come and talk to me about it. hey, this person did this. they will see my reaction to it. >> while the feminine and
masculine inmates are sometimes housed in the same unit, they're not allowed out of their cells at the same time in order to prevent sexual activity. >> if they put us all together, you are going to have guys having sex with fems. >> officers acknowledge there are more attempts at sexual activity in this unit than others but say they usually stop it before it occurs. >> we keep a pretty good eye on that kind of stuff. the officers are required to do rounds and checks, and specifically in those units, those officers know the games they try to play. we have had some incidents in the showers and stuff like that. but those are dealt with and charged with it. we try to keep the feminines to the fem side and masculine to the masculine. we don't let them intertwine because you are asking for problems. >> in most other housing units inmates are given anywhere from six to eight hours daily to spend in the day room or recreation areas. since the homosexual unit only allows the feminine or masculine groups out at once, they spend
half as much time outside their cells as the other inmates. an unhappy circumstance for most of them. >> i'm going to start out with a simple braided necklace if you will. >> joey rhodes draws on his creativity to deal with the monotony of long hours in a small cell. he makes fashion accessories that he sells for commissary snacks. >> so you take your three, three strings, you tie one end of it. just peel off a piece of your paint. and the long string. one of the strings is completely covered with that paint. i sit down and kind of put it in between my toes. i can make necklaces. you can make belts. you can make little rings. some of the girls really like it when -- when i say "girls," i don't mean actually girls, but they prefer to be called girls. which boggles my mind. but to each their own, i
suppose. >> rhodes, who is awaiting extradition to illinois on a bribery charge to which he plans to plead not guilty, is grouped with the masculine inmates. >> i am a man that wants to be with another man. i don't want a girl. if i wanted a girl, i would be straight. but i am also -- i won't date a guy that is taller than me. i won't date a guy that is bigger than me. so i guess i am more of the masculine man. >> rhodes has been teaching his inmate, kyle beauchamp, the finer points of chess, another creative challenge considering they don't have a chess set in their cell. >> we need to make some more squares. i ripped them up or something. we've got enough. now, if you look, at the scoreboard. mine is joey. his is kyle. it's 4-1. one stalemate beauchamp, who has
pled not guilty to shoplifting and violating his parole, represents the third kind of inmate housed in the unit. >> he is actually a straight guy. he is straight. he is not gay at all. >> during his interview process for his housing he said he was homosexual. so he was housed in the homosexual unit, upon his request. every inmate signs a form requesting to go into the homosexual unit. it's under their own free will. >> some straight men look to the homosexual unit as a safe harbor compared to the predatory environment found in many other units. >> i had one or two gay men tell me go to the gay pod. you will be taken care of. i have had other guys in there write me, like show me, show me your penis and all this stuff like that. i am like, okay, whoa, back up. i'm not like that.
little do they know that i am straight. >> bexar county don't really care. >> beauchamp says most inmates here have been respectful of his sexuality. >> eloy, he is very flamboyant. come up to me and give me a massage or something like that. he wouldn't go too far. he knew i was straight. >> no. a lot of people were saying there was something going on between me and him. i could have messed around with him if i wanted to. of course, you get a straight guy walking in the door, everybody is saying, well nobody has had him. i want him. i want to be the first. >> but these days, eloy orosco has bigger concerns than jail house relationships. he recently violated his parole after testing positive for drugs and threatening his sister-in-law with violence. >> i told her i was going to beat her up. i become a little bit violent speaking once pills and drugs and alcohol take place. i think i am superman. she called the police and said that i was going to hurt her and wouldn't stop until i got her. so they got me for a terroristic threat.
in a few days i will have a revocational hearing where they will decide whether they send me back to prison or reinstate me on parole. >> orosco is entitled to make the case in the hearing, but his sister-in-law is also invited to testify. >> if my sister-in-law shows up. i am guilty. because i am a repeat offender and because i've been incarcerated so many times, my word is really not -- not trustworthy. with my sister-in-law, you never know. she is unpredictable. so with my luck she will show and i'll go back to prison. i guess i leave it in god's hand and see what happens. >> coming up -- >> was anyone subpoenaed to be here for the hearing today? >> eloy orosco finds out if his sister-in-law will testify against him. but first -- >> going with the mexican mafia was only supposed to be a temporary thing. i didn't know that was supposed to be like a permanent thing. >> a young man joins a dangerous gang and now faces the
county jail make every effort to not house rivals in the same unit. but in one section of the jail, old enemies made peace. >> i just gotta think positive, you know, just hope that everything goes okay. >> johnny robles, a former member of the tango orejones, has found a sympathetic friend in victor, a former member of the rival mexican mafia gang. both men have dropped out of their gangs and are now housed in the jail's ex-gang members unit. >> it feels like reality hasn't hit yet. even though it did hit when i saw her in the coffin. >> robles, who is charged with attempted capital murder, has been devastated by the recent death of his 3-year-old daughter. >> i ended up losing my daughter in a car accident. i loved her very much. she was so beautiful. she was always so beautiful. i don't think nothing or no one could ever take the pain away. >> i try to do other things so my mind won't think about it. it's hard to do because you ain't got no control over yourself. >> it doesn't matter how much you try to push it out of your mind. it is always there. the problem sometimes, when you hold your feelings in, sometimes it is even worse. because you implode, you know. people trust me. they all come to me for advice. i just try off to help them, you know. it doesn't matter if they're ex-orejones or ex-mexican mafia members. i help all of them the same way. >> now, i talk about her. it just hurts me. you know. >> yeah, it hurts you. it is good to talk about it, though, because you let your, your feelings, your emotions out. it is better, you know, than to leave them inside you where they will hurt you more. >> when i see them, i see a reflection of myself. eventually they will be me in years to come.
at least i know that i gave them some advice that nobody gave me when i went to prison. >> maybe with this tragedy in the future, you can make better decisions, you know, regarding your children, or what have you. you get to a point where you have to make a decision. is this type of life i want or do i want to stay out there and do something for my family. >> for some it can be too late for meaningful change. but the jail has seen a trend toward younger inmates who request refuge in the ex-gang unit. stephen vogt is one of the new arrivals. he joined a branch of the mexican mafia on the streets at age 17. >> i have actually never been in trouble before. i never had a ticket. i never harmed people at all. i have never even been in a fight before. >> my favorite game was the legend of zelda. they came out with the skyward
sword. i played it since the beginning. >> vogt says he comes from a good home but was talked into joining the mexican mafia by a friend. he says it was presented as a way to earn money by selling marijuana. >> easy money. like i can make $500 in a day. >> vogt says his involvement in the gang led to his current charge of capital murder. he has pled not guilty and says he was only supposed to be the lookout for a gang-ordered robbery that went wrong. >> it was a stabbing. my co-defendant was the one who had the knife. so it was something that he was only supposed to scare him with. but he ended up using it violently against him. >> you got my letters? i just miss you, mom. >> my mom never knew anything. and to this day i feel terrible for that. >> i don't know. i just been depressed lately. >> i did something. it made my mom feel so terrible. she visits. she writes me. she makes me feel loved. she makes me feel loved. and that's what i love her
about. my lawyer filed a new motion for reconsideration. >> if vogt is found guilt of capital murder, his sentence is automatic. life in prison without parole. a fate already handed down to his co-defendant in the case. vogt clings to the hope that his lawyer can have the charge reduced. >> going with the mexican mafia was only supposed to be a temporary thing. i didn't know that it was supposed to be like a permanent thing. >> coming up -- >> on your stomachs facing the back wall. >> staff conducts a surprise contraband raid. >> you are not allowed to flagrantly advertise any homosexual tendencies nor induce others to commit or participate in that activity. do you understand these? >> yes, ma'am. >> kyle beauchamp says good-bye to the homosexual unit. 888888@8j
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following a week of campaign missteps. >> and federal investigators say there were no problems with the signals at the station in new jersey where the train crashed in new jersey that killed one woman. investigators are still trying to reach a data recorder which may ultimately reveal the cause of that crash. now back to lockup. for some inmates at san antonio's bexar county jail, one day can roll into the next with very little change. but today, in one of the low security dormitory units, the monotony will be broken. the special emergency response team floods into the door and orders all inmates to their bunks.
>> on your stomachs facing the back wall. hands behind your back. there is no talking. bunks 41 to 48, get up and go out to the rec yard. single file. we search for contraband. drugs. weapons. anything that has been altered from its original form. anything that they're not supposed to have in their possession. >> the inmates are directed to sit down in the dorm's enclosed rec yard. the search team will hold them there as officers conduct a thorough search for contraband. first, a drug detection dog is brought in to sniff out narcotics. >> inmates are very crafty. there are thousands of places where narcotics can be hidden within the units. the canine has found drugs hidden in peanut butter, in mattresses. inmates are here 24 hours a day. they have plenty of time and opportunity to think where to hide stuff. >> this time, the dog doesn't discover any drugs among the inmates' possessions. but she does find a pack of
imitation narcotics put there by her handler. >> canines are like small kids. they need positive reinforcement. i will plant a synthetic narcotic. that way she gets her reward. >> with the canine search complete, officers begin their search of the bunks, meticulously inspecting every item they find. illegal substances or weapons can result in inmates getting time in segregation or even new criminal charges. but anything altered from its original purpose is also considered contraband. and will be disposed of. even this inmate art created from food wrappers is considered contraband. >> they get very creative. these are all out of bags of chips. >> once the search is over, the inmates are ordered to lie down on their bunks for further instructions. >> if you had any contraband, it is in the trash. everything else, check with your bunky. check up here in the front if you have anything missing. do you understand?
>> yes, ma'am. >> well, i have been here since april. i have been down to the shakedown every month. they mess up everything, but that's a choice you got to make when you go in jail. >> there is a shakeup of another sort in the homosexual unit. the inmates are on the move. >> we move inmates out of these units often so that we can do unit repairs. they will be relocated to another unit while that is being done. >> put your stuff behind your back and put your hands on the wall. >> the inmates carry their possessions inside sheets. but before they're allowed to enter the new unit, officers conduct a shakedown for contraband. >> the more contraband i find. the more i'm going to throw out. >> finally the inmates are taken to a unit, almost identical to the one they left. but one of them has decided his time in the unit is up. >> hey, you, just stand there for me.
>> kyle beauchamp says he is straight but requested to be housed with homosexuals when he was first booked into the jail. some older inmates told him, with his green hair. it would be safer than general population. >> a lot of times some of the convicts will mess with the younger ones. they'll sit in the holding cell with these young cats and see how naive they are. and they'll tell them stuff like when you talk to the class officer, make sure you tell them you want this, this, and this, messing with them. and they do it. then they realize they got played. all right, you called me earlier about your request to go to general population. he addressed to me he didn't understand what the homosexual unit was. he didn't know what he was signing up for. that he very adamantly didn't want to be in there. >> still, when an inmate requests a transfer out of the homosexual unit, the jail requires that he understand what is expected of him. >> i'm going to have you sign your signature, same thing it says right there. i'm requesting this of my own free will. i'm not being coerced. i'm not going to demonstrate any behavior that may or may not get me in trouble while i'm out in general population.
that means you are not allowed to flagrantly advertise any homosexual tendencies nor induce others to commit or participate in that activity. do you understand? >> yes, ma'am. >> sign for me right there. >> beauchamp has requested to move to a trustee pod, a housing unit for inmate workers. though they're not paid. there are some other benefits to be had. more time out of their cells and extra food. >> the trustee, on the day that they do work, which is more than likely every day, they would get two trays at the end of their work period. >> is that your main motivation? >> that is my main motivation for being in trustee pod. >> but eloy orosco need not worry about getting an inmate job for extra food. >> i'm quite excited. >> yes, you are excited. >> he is able to purchase more than enough snacks from the jail commissary to quell his appetite. >> one white rice. three instant coffees. >> orosco pays for commissary from money put on his books, a debit account funded by family
members, including the one person to whom he feels closest. >> my biggest thing is my mom. she is always there for me. she says i am her child regardless. three doritos. she has never neglected me or said i don't want you to be gay. >> that's everything. >> but she has always kept that in my head that -- you know it is not right. you know the way you are living is not right. and you know it is not godly. and you know that in the end you are going to pay for it. deep inside i know it is true. i know it is not right. but do i think that i will go to heaven when i pass away? part of me wants to believe it. the other part of me knows it is probably not going to happen. >> orosco will soon face another sort of judgment day. he is scheduled for a parole hearing on the infractions that returned him to jail. a positive drug test and allegedly threatening to harm his sister-in-law, resulting in
a charge of making terroristic threats. >> some of the evidence they have against me were a lot of messages that i sent to her on facebook. >> are you a violent person? >> i sure am not. i really am not. i guess you can say that drugs really took me there. >> orosco faces three possible outcomes from the hearing -- reinstatement of his parole, allowing him to go home, a return to prison for up to 2 1/2 more years, or something in between. he could be sent to an intermediate sanction facility, or isf, a halfway house which holds parole violators in custody but allows them to work at outside jobs. >> it is another form of a prison. they do a lot of counseling there. they have classes. i'm thinking that's where i will go. hopefully not. i'm trying to get reinstated because they're playing with my life here. >> coming up -- >> i am never going home again. that's what they tell me. they may put me to death. i got a lot to think about. this place is a think-tank.
>> tim gaffney and other ex-gang members attempt to make peace with the past. and -- joey rhodes creates a new life in a housing unit for straight men. yes. you know, that reminds me of geico's 97% customer satisfaction rating. 97%? helped by geico's fast and friendly claims service. huh... oh yeah, baby. geico's as fast and friendly as it gets. woo! geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more.
violence has in one way or another impacted the lives of every inmate inside the bexar county jail's ex-gang unit. but now many of these men say by dropping out of their gangs they have taken the first step towards new lives. >> prayer call. >> prayer call. >> prayer call. >> every night we have prayer circle. how it come about is if one guy
had some problems. he was going to court and this and that, so we decided to have prayer. and it just escalated from there. and we got 10, 12, 15, sometimes 20 people in prayer circle now. >> heavenly father, we come before you this evening just to give you thanks, fatherly god, for what you have done in our life. >> we get up in there. anyone got a special request, you know, we lift it up. >> ask that he watches over our family, everybody's family. takes care of the ones in need. >> bless our brothers in the circle, out the circle, our sisters in the circle, out the circle. please take care of my two daughters, everybody's kids, family. >> i'm just glad that i woke up able to seen this say day. >> tim gaffney is a former member of the aryan brotherhood. >> a lot of us, we do bible studies. not out there. but we do it individually. but i am never going home again. that's what they're telling me. they may put me to death. i got a lot to think about. this place is a think-tank. you can sit out there and be tough with the fellows all you want.
when you lay your head down at night, that's when the torture comes in. >> if it weren't for my radio and reading the word and reading novels, books i read right here, i would probably just go ballistic. >> gaffney is awaiting trial for capital murder. >> they say i stabbed a man to death. and stabbed that person 11 times. >> he says the night he was arrested he had mixed alcohol with powerful prescription medication and the rest is a blur. >> when i woke up and the medication wore off, when i found out what i was -- i charged with, i was totally shocked. they're saying that i went to work and came home and went down the street to somebody i never met and slaughtered him to death. i would like to think that i am a better person than that. i have done some crazy stuff in my time, but i tell you what, i don't believe i am a murderer. >> he has a capital murder too. i usually talk to him. he talks to me. >> gaffney has become friends with 21-year-old stephen vogt, a former mexican mafia member. vogt is also awaiting trial for capital murder. >> i like stephen. when he came in, he was real skinny. he was like a little puppy without his mama.
>> she's not my girlfriend. she's my ex-girlfriend. >> she's at college? >> yeah. >> she's trying to study to be a music teacher. >> i have seen people like him before. i know his situation. he got caught up in something that he should have never got up in. he went with the wrong crowd. he was a follower. he is a good kid. but he is good as gold. >> i ain't got nothing. >> gaffney has even pushed aside his white supremacist views to learn spanish from vogt. >> once in a while we will get some white people who are ex-aryan brotherhood. majority is latino. >> this is a culture shock. everybody speaks spanish around
here. [ speaking foreign language ] >> i am the third wheel. i am lost. he is teaching me spanish, but it's doing no good. if i don't know what he is talking about. you know it is like, what is this in spanish? >> that's the same thing. >> oh, uno? is that what it is? >> yeah. >> ha-ha-ha. >> shows you how much i know. >> only time can tell how permanent or sincere the changes claimed by those in the ex-gang unit who will be. kyle beauchamp, however, has experienced some undeniable changes in his stay at bexar county. he is now a trustee or inmate worker. >> i have been working laundry for about a week now. i work from 9:45, 10:00 till whenever we are done. so it could be 6:00 in the morning, 7:00 in the morning. one of the biggest benefits of working laundry would be coming out of the pod for eight, nine hours on end. also we work for food. we get two trays in the morning. two trays in the morning is a lot better than one tray in the morning. we get it first. we get it hot. that is always a plus.
>> beauchamp also has a new hair style, and it's considerably more noticeable than the one that prompted him to initially request housing in the homosexual unit for safety. >> i got one of my friends in the pod to cut my hair. i was getting a little hot during the dryer work. i like it a lot. it keeps me cool. >> change has also come to beauchamp's former cellmate, joey rhodes. he has received permission to transfer to an all-straight, male, general population dorm. >> i requested to be moved out of the first place i was in. only because i had stalkers. and it got a little hectic there. it wasn't what i was really expecting out of all of that. i was going there to, say, hey maybe i will have more in common with these people. maybe i will find better friends. every day i was getting two, three people coming to my window trying to get me to expose myself to them. and every time i would go take a shower, i would get people coming in sitting on the benches just watching me. i was like, hello? it's kind of scary. i am not going to lie. finally i talked to classification, and they moved me out of there. i am in a great new pod. there is a lot of cool people here.
a lot of cool new friends. it's interesting. >> while rhodes must keep his homosexuality under wraps in general population, he's met at least a few inmates willing to share their opinions. >> i will be straight up with you. i do have a few friends that live that lifestyle. i don't judge them. god accepts everybody. it comes down to the fact that it is wrong. >> i kind of keep things to myself, which is what they instructed me to do. but i am sure there is gay people in the same unit that i am in. and i know that. >> what if it wasn't so much the desires. what if they actually fell in love with another person? >> i said, i am not saying i hated. >> we are not saying you hate them. it's just your beliefs, your feelings. >> i am not saying it was wrong. that's what i was raised. >> that's how i was raised. >> me, i am attracted to both. >> i told you. >> it's not even about sex at all. it is basically about how i feel about a person. >> i understand that. >> when i came here, i said i saw you. and i said it was kind of a negative thought.
but first thought came to my head is, oh, maybe this kid is gay. then you told me i am bisexual. so i was like, okay, you look both. >> i might be a little nervous about it. i might be shy and bashful. i am not afraid they will hurt me. i don't think they would hurt me. i kind of -- i kind of welcome it. i like the attention. so if they did find out -- i mean, they're not going to do nothing about it. >> in fact, rhodes has found some of his conversations on the topic have taken surprising turns. . >> like i told you, when i was 11 years old i got real depressed because i felt like i started becoming that way. i started becoming gay, and i got depressed and i got scared. i told my sisters, i think i am turning gay. and they're like, what is wrong with you? when you see a girl walk by, how do you feel? i was like, it makes me happy. and they're like, well, how can you be gay and still have attraction for girls. i'm like, i don't know. so i grabbed the bible. i kept reading. and it told me it was wrong, so i told god, change my mind. and he changed my mind. when you see those pretty guards -- you know who i am talking
about. you probably know some of their names too, some of the guards come in our pod. when you see them -- >> all right. all right. >> because of the fact you are in jail and haven't seen women in how long. when you see one walk in your pod, you get real excited. you get a real happy desire inside. >> no, not really. >> i do. >> well, that's you. >> we are born different. >> so far this place seemed a lot more laid back. i feel a lot more comfortable with whom i am. i kind of let them know, hey, i am, i am gay. and they seemed to be perfectly okay with that. i think this jail would be better if they didn't segregate people the way that they do. >> so we all agree? >> all agree. >> coming up. >> the first allegation has mr. orosco terroristic threats of family, household. do you admit or deny the allegation? >> deny. >> eloy orosco tries to convince the parole board to set him free.
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yes, sir. >> you ready? >> yeah. >> it is a day of reckoning for eloy orosco. >> a big day for me. i am really nervous. >> he is on his way to a parole hearing. orosco could have his parole reinstated and go home or be sent to prison for up to 2 1/2 more years to complete his sentence for burglary. he could also be sent to an intermediate sanction facility, or isf, a halfway house for parole violators. orosco's parole violations include a failed drug test and allegations by his sister-in-law that he made terroristic threats against her. she has been invited to testify at the hearing. if she shows up, orosco fears he will return to prison. >> i am a repeat offender. so my word really isn't too much to take into consideration. if she shows, i am guilty.
but she is married to my brother, she has the rest of her life that she plans on being with my brother to face my family. >> orosco also worries that if his mother attends the hearing she will find out about his failed drug test. >> i haven't been straight up with my mom as far as coming out dirty because i just hate to break her heart. >> the hearing is attended by orosco's parole officer, antonio ramos, and is run by edna corales. >> was anyone subpoenaed to be here for the hearing today? >> offender's mother is here. but she speaks only spanish. i tried to get the complainant to be here. her testimony is certainly important. she has not made it. i assume she will not make it. she stated she was just simply afraid of the threats that had been made according to her. >> orosco caught a break in that his sister-in-law is not here to testify against him, but he must still defend against her allegations. >> do you admit or deny the
allegations? >> deny. >> do i have problems with her and have i had problems with her in the past? yes. to the extent that i would hurt her? no. threatening her? no. did i confront her about it? yes. never at one point did i say i was going to hurt her family or house or anything lake that. >> next allegation, failure to abstain from use of drugs, narcotics, or controlled substances. admit or deny? >> admit. i went out to a party, took some pills. they were ecstasy pills, and i ended up coming up dirty for methamphetamines and opiates. i do recognize when i am wrong. i was wrong as far as using pills. but you have to take into consideration that, before i was incarcerated, i was doing a whole different level of drug. i was real bad out there, shooting up. >> you said you were making an effort, but you were also doing drugs and you were breaking the law. whether you are on parole or not on parole, using illegal drugs is against the law. >> now, the mom is able to speak english?
>> no. >> none at all. >> her friend, who is knowledgeable about mr. eloy's character, he is going to testify on his behalf. >> okay. good morning. come on in. have a seat. >> my mom's boyfriend has never really been okay with me or on good terms with me. he feels that i am a spoiled brat, that i am a drug addict and this and that. i don't know. we will see what happens. >> why should the parole board give him another chance to finish these last few months he has left on parole? >> let me be very simple. he got out, and he went to work, first time that i know he had a good job. boy, they let him open the cafe, let him use the cash register, and more or less was like a general manager of the place. if he stumbles again, okay, put him back in. but give him a chance to stumble. >> the way he defended me today, it really showed me that i guess he is on good terms with me now. which i was surprised.
>> while many things broke his way during the parole hearing, the end result was not what orosco had hoped for. >> what the parole office has recommended, isf, i'm not too happy with. >> rather than reinstate his parole, the board decided to send orosco to an intermediate sanction facility, a halfway house, that provides drug counseling to parole violators, for a period of six months to one year. the hearing did, however, allow orosco to continue an important illusion. >> i'm happy my mother didn't find out today that i was using pills. that would break her heart. she just wants to believe that i'm doing good