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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 3, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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eastern in farmville. chris matthews at 7:00 p.m. eastern and then brian williams and yours truly will start hosting our official pre-debate coverage at 8:00 p.m. mike pence and tim kaine will start, and then you will recover from your popcorn indulgence at 10:30 p.m. we will start at 10:30 and go forever. big day tomorrow. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again then. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> a gentleman's debate, are you ready for that, rachel? >> the fact that they are both 57 or 58 and they both weigh about 208 pounds, i think maybe i want to see them box. kurt eichenwald will join us
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with the latest expose in news week about donald trump using chinese steel in his construction projects. and mike murphy is here to take a look at the new polls showing hillary clinton moving up, national polls and battleground state polls. but first, the billionaire's tax return that doesn't look like a billionaire's tax return. >> welcome to another week of, yes, this is really happening. >> he's either not that rich. >> wrong. >> not that charitable. >> or he's never paid taxes in his life. >> warmer. >> doesn't look hilike he paid dime of federal income tax for two decades. >> they were amazing times. but i'm working for you now, not for trump. >> that is like letting the fox guard the hen house, right? >> believe me. >> in the debate, he said it was smart to avoid paying taxes. >> what does that make the rest
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of americans. >> what? >> the reality is, he's a genius. >> there's no one who's shown more genius. >> genius? absolute genius. >> i'm a star. thank you. you are too. >> here's my question. what kind of genius loses $1 billion in a single year? >> this is the last word on campaign 2016. i cannot believe my luck tonight. there's actually still stuff to talk about in the donald trump tax return that nobody's concentrated on yet. yesterday when i read drum's tax return the one that was reproduced in the "new york times" in print, i circled one number, and only one number. the most important number in the return to me and to donald trump, the number that exposes donald trump's darkest secret. and i can't believe that that number is just still sitting there in the tax return and
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nobody's really talking about it yet. the "new york times" article didn't really mention that number. it's the number that humiliates donald trump, and so i'm not the only one who's happy that it's still sitting there waiting to be talked about. donald trump has to be very happy with the coverage. on his new york state tax return, the one that is most important to him. it's not the $915 million in losses that the return shows. that's the thing he insists makes him smart, because that's the thing that allows him to pay no federal income taxes, possibly for 18 years. losses like that apparently still allow donald trump to pay zero income taxes, because in the debate last week he had a very easy opportunity to deny that he pays no income taxes, and he didn't do that. >> or maybe he doesn't want the american people, all of you watching tonight, to know that he's paid nothing in federal
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taxes, because the only years that anybody's ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino high selicense, they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. >> that makes me smart. >> you know donald trump was paying federal income taxes now, he would have said that makes me smart anpay a lot of federal income taxes now, or i've paid a lot of federal income taxes since then. we have gotten to the point sunday when the "new york times" revealed these documents that it wasn't really surprising news that donald trump paid no federal income tax, but what we got on sunday was very, very important. it was proof that he paid no federal income tax for the tax year 1995. and it was proof of something else, something that is donald trump's darkest secret. donald trump's darkest secret has nothing to do with how his hair is attached to his head or
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his marital infidelities or bankruptcies. the darkest secret is the truth behind the piece of his image that is most important to him. and we know that it is important to donald trump, very important, that you think that his fingers are not short. even though his every hand gesture proves the opposite. it is very important to donald trump that you think that these cylindrical protuberance thaw cannot see, that you would never want to see is not short. >> look at those hands. are they small hands? and, he referred to my hands. if they're small, something else must be small. i guarantee you, there's no problem. i guarantee. >> donald trump is obviously oblivious to the general cietal agreement among virtually everyone who can spell the word psychiatrist that verbal guarantees of that sort are usually contra indicators.
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that sort of guarantee he felt compelled to offer from the presidential debate stage is almost a guarantee of the opposite. and so, so it is, with male bragging generally, if you tell me what a guy brags about i can tell you what he's lying about. and what does donald trump brag about the most? what does he brag about more than even than body parts? what does he brag about even more than his ability to romance women who has a strong attraction to moneyed men? what does donald trump think is the single most important thing about donald trump? >> i'm really rich. >> i'm one of the very rich. >> in all fairness, i'm rich. >> hey, i'm rich. >> i'm rich. >> have you ever heard this guy say that? i'm very rich? how about this guy? do you ever hear him say that? there are a lot of richer people than donald trump.
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bill gates is 20 times richer than donald trump according to the forbes estimate. forbes estimates he's worth only half of what he says he's worth. forbes says he's worth only about $4 billion. each koch brother is worth ten times more than donald trump, according to forbes. each one of them. but what if donald trump isn't even worth what forbes says he's worth. forbes has never had a chance to look at trump's 1995 tax return or any tax returns until now. and there in line 6 of the return is the most important number in that tax return for donald trump and for me. the number donald trump never wanted anyone to see. donald trump's earned, actually earned income for 1995 was only $3.5 million.
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$3,427,092. that is less than tv news anchors earn in a year. $3,423,092. it's a huge income, for anyone who doesn't call himself a billionaire. billionaires have incomes of hundreds of millions of dollars a year. some of them, a billion or more a year in income. there are corporate executives with incomes of $40 million a year. employees, $40 million a year. and they're not billionaires. it's hard to be a billionaire. it takes a lot of money to be a billionaire. most ultra rich people who have more money than they know what to do with are not billionaires. shortstops and actors make $15 million a year, and they're not billionaires. $3.4 million in earned income? in 1995?
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eight years before that, donald trump was claiming billionaire status. >> you are the antithesis of the billionaire recluse, howard hughes, aren't you? >> i don't know about that. i love what i'm doing. >> he also knows that howard hughes was a real billionaire, and he isn't. if he was only lying about being a billionaire up in the 1990s and he became a billionaire he could move that by releasing his tax returns, but as of now, all of the tax information that has ever been seen on donald trump shows him to be a billionaire only in his own mind. joining us now, david k. johnson, pulitzer prizewinning columnist, the author of "making donald trump", and a professor
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of taxation at the new york school of law. the other thing i noticed he's got $7 million in interest income, which is an indicator of maybe $100 million in interest-producing assets. >> 100 to 150. >> and we're still, there's no indicator of billionaire in these tax returns. >> there is no evidence whatsoever that donald trump is a billionaire. he's a wealthy man. anybody who makes $3.4 million is a wealthy man. but there's no indication he's a billionaire, and there never has been any indication. >> so how did he pile up the $915 million in losses? you have mapped it out, and i, i read it. and i believe i understand it, but i can't explain it. it's one of those things that i only have it here now. >> start with $1 billion of highly-leveraged assets that your banks put up all the money for and mismanaged them is the short version of that. but what's astonishing is what he did with this $900 million.
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it's only good for 18 years. that means he would have to be making way above $3.4 million or even with the interest, $10 million a year for it to be useful for him. he can't take it all. he will run negative income all the way until isun out. he wasn't smart enough as a businessman to try to figure out to reorganize his finances so other people could in fact buy those tax losses and reduce their own tax bill. something i advised him to do over lunch in 1990. >> this thing about the $900 million, if he really was a billionaire, and he had a year where he made, say, $300 million, if he did that three years in a row, that loss would disappear in three years. the fact that he could use that loss for 18 years is an indicator that he's making less on average $50 million a year. >> you know, it's a funny number in that thing that he only paid himself $6,000 in salary. but i think he may have been
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overpaid. that was sort of the tax lawyer in me says that's an attempt to scam the medicare system. he pays himself a low-ball salary but then again -- >> because you only pay payroll taxes on that salary income. so he gets to keep it low. >> that is right. >> but you raised the possibility that even in the debt, it's other people's money, meaning it's other people's debt that he's exploiting for his tax return. >> the money he put up was mainly debt money, and so was the bank's. some people think if you lose the money you shouldn't have it back and more but if you're losing other people's money, that's another kettle of fish. >> what else would you divine from what we've got here so far? >> well, i think the most fascinating thing is a little more different than that. that's how he used the tax code to get out of an immediate tax
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bill. when the bankers wrote down almost $1 billion of his debt, when your debt's canceled, that's income to you. if you didn't pay the bank back, you have to pay taxes. and there's a provision the real estate lob eye got into the law that says if you have other buildings, you can reduce their value for tax purposes and defer paying the taxes. that's what donald does, he shifts it. then he creates this company that's a publicly-traded stock-held company and puts these reduced value buildings into it, people buy this stock, they lose their shirts. the price goes from $35 down to 17 cents, but dona$17 cents, bu million. >> that's buying stock at $35, and by the time you woke up, basically, it was -- >> it was gone. donald got $82 million out of the company as it lost under his chairmanship $1.1 billion. i mean, this is, donald's history here is lose money and
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take a lot for yourself and leave your workers, your vendors and now your investors in the lurch, because that's smart. >> he is saying on the campaign trail that he's going to fix everything that's wrong with the tax code. in fact, i think we might have some sound of him saying that today. is that ready? >> i understand the tax laws better than almost anyone, which is why i am one who can truly fix them. i understand. i get it. and that is what i commit to do. we want fairness. we want money brought in, and we want money to be spent when it goes out, because they spend our tax dollars so unfairly and unwisely, remember that. >> professor, if he's going to make it fair for everyone, he has to basically change all the laws he's using. >> i don't think he's read his own tax plan, because it does nothing but cut taxes for people like himself and gets rid of none of the gains that he
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appears to have used. by the way, even if he appeared more capable of reading lengthy statutes and regulations, no man in his position is going to be doing his own tax planning, that's what you hire lawyers for and accountants. >> weel swrae to leave it there. thank you both for joining us. appreciate it. up next, the clinton campaign intends to use the donald trump tax returns to their advantage. they already are. in the campaign war room tonight, hillary clinton getting good news in all of the polls. national polls and battleground states. mike murphy will take a look at those polls, and kurt eichenwald coming up with his new expose in "newsweek" about donald trump using chinese steel in his construction projects. ent? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own?
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in the debate, he said not paying taxes made him smart.
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but think about what that means. it means that all the rest of us who pay our taxes, right? what's he saying about us? but more than that, zero taxes means zero for our vets, zero for our military, zero for pell grants to send young people to college, zero for health. zero for education. constipated?
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system that he would make even worse. just think about it. he paid zero at least for abo about 20 years we believe, based on what we now know. and he's advocating for huge tax cuts that would help him and his family even more. what does he want us to do? pay him to lose money? really? >> a new cnn national poll of likely voters out today shows 86% say it's everyone american's duty to pay their fair share of taxes. 73% of voters want donald trump to release his tax returns. 56% think donald trump hasn't released his it tax returns because they think he's trying to hide something from the public, they figured it out. 35% believe he's being audited by the irs. >> joining me, david corn, and a
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msnbc political analyst. and rick, i just want to go to chris christie's defense this weekend of donald trump on this, because apparently, donald trump himself writes the talking points. let's listen. >> there's no one who's shown more genius in their way to maneuver around the tax code as he rightfully used the laws to do that. this is actually a very, very good story for donald trump. >> and we'll save the giuliani saying genius, genius. you know donald trump wrote that particular talking point. >> absolutely. as you said earlier, this speaks to what he's most nervous about, what he's most sensitive about is that donald trump, as a hedge fund client of mine said to me once, he is not a billionaire. i'm a billionaire. he's a clown living on credit. and this is a guy who's desperately trying for people not to discover this. this is a big blow to home, i think. this is a huge mental bro to lo
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home. >> it's definitely a blow for him for these numbers to be out there and for me to laugh, as i did, at his income in 1995, which shows you why he so desperately needed the apprentice to come along when it did. but the guy claims to be a billionaire, and, you know, everything we've seen says he isn't. >> well, i'm waiting for his supporters to call his lack of tax payments an act of courageous civil disobeyed against. they will spin this anyway imaginable. and i imagine their heads are spinning. in the last day they have to deal with the trump foundation being cited for taking contributions illegally, mocking hillary and making accusations that she's cheating on bill with no evidence. they have to pay attention to stories saying that he made sexist and crude remarks when he was running "the apprentice" tv
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show. i minean, this guy is sort of like, if you throw one plate of spaghetti on the wall you notice it. but when you throw 50, 75, 100 plates of spaghetti on the wall, eventually they all blend together. we haven't talked about his birtherism in weeks, trump university, khan, judge curiel. his ties to the mob. this guy is a walking encyclopedia of opposition research and yet he's still hanging in there. >> let's take a holook at the w the clinton campaign is using the latest revelations in an ad. >> you work hard, you pay your taxes. so why didn't donald trump pay his? he claims he's worth $10 billion. but a new report shows he may not have paid any federal taxes for almost 20 years.
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>> he didn't pay any taxes. >> that makes me smart. >> if that makes him smart, what does that make you? >> how stupid are the people in this country. >> 79% of trump supporters think it's your civil duty to pay taxes. we've been hinting at this for a long time, it's one of those things, the difference between the suggestion of the possibility and then the proof. here's a tax return. it shows zero. >> look, this is why he's hidden this for so long. this is why the audit thing has always been a lie. the irs said from the beginning it was a lie. and his people have insisted it's absolutely the truth. it's carved in stone, but this is a guy who's desperate for us not to know that he is not as wealthy as he is, that his charitable contributions are nonexistent and frankly he's using a series ever tax
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loopholes to advantage himself. look, that may be perfectly legal, but his whole self-image is built on, i am the wealthy guy. i'm worth $10 billion. and, you know, he's not. and he's much smaller figure and a much weaker figure and a much more delicate figure mentally. >> this can get onto the subject of taxation, something that didn't come up in the first presidential debate. these two candidates have wildly different views of taxation and different taxation programs that it they're advocating, and neither one of them have really been heard. >> i think mainly, this has been a campaign of character and personality trait, and i don't expect that to change. donald trump shows no interest in policy other than the wall. when you look at his speeches, he talks about himself.
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now a story we put up on "mother jones" yesterday did point out that he has denigrated half of america for not paying taxes. he says if these are people who feel they are entitled to get a free ride. very much like mitt romney said with the 47% remark. i'd like to have someone ask him how he squares that with the fact that he seems to be in the half of americans who aren't paying taxes when most of those actually are working poor, senior citizen students who don't generate enough income to qualify for federal income taxes. >> david corn, rick wilson, thank you both for joining us. really appreciate it. >> kurt eichenwald will join us. he has his latest n"newsweek" expose about donald trump using chinese steel in his construction projects, something he says he would prevent.
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and also coming up, the physical comedy of donald trump, the man who says he's willing to go to war with iran over a hand gesture. ♪ ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. the cadillac ct6.
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donald trump can't sleep. and he can't stand still. and maybe he can't sleep, because he can't stop making hand gestures in the middle of the night. he's the only presidential
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candidate in history who's ready to go to nuclear war if necessary over a hand gesture, a hand gesture that somebody in the iranian navy might make in sight of someone on an american naval vessel. donald trump's own hand gestures make absolutely no sense. they have no recognizable connection to the words he's speaking. watch this. tell me, if you can, no sound here, tell me what he's talking about.
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that one, any guesses? the only hint i can give you is that the hand gestures have absolutely nothing to do with a single word he said. let's see, let me check twitter here for guesses. you give up? okay. now you're going to hear the words, and i defy you to find any link between any of the words and anything either one of his hands is doing. >> and the only thing i can tell you, the only thing i can tell you is they're getting older, and they're working harder, and they're making less. it's not supposed to be that way. but, you know what? i'm getting older, and i'm working harder now than i've ever worked in my life. so we're all in the same ballpark. >> the one physical schtick of donald trump's that is clear is that when he tries to do mean impressions of other people,
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after he did this horribly ugly impression of a disabled reporter, donald trump denied that he was doing his imitation of that disabled man. but the trump campaign's breathtakingly incompetent staff seems to have forgotten to tell donald trump to stop doing physical imitations of people. here he is on saturday in pennsylvania. >> she's supposed to fight all of these different things. and she can't make it 15 feet to her car. give me a break. give me a break. give me a break. >> we're only 35 days away from possibly having to suffer four years of donald trump's bad imitations delivered at podiums bearing the seal of the president of the united states.
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but, new polling tonight dicates that we have a better chance now of avoiding that nightmare. mike murphy will join us next in the campaign war room ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance. time for tonight's campaign war room. new polls show that if the election were held today, donald trump would be looking for another job in reality tv tomorrow. all polls show hillary clinton moving up and in the battleground states as well. let's see. the politico morning consult poll has hillary clinton at 42 nationally, donald trump at 36%. with 35 days left, joining us is mike murphy, a veteran of john mccain's war room and the former head of jeb bush's right to rise super pac. the round of polling we have now, is this the verdict on that
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first debate? >> oh, i think so. yeah. polling runs about four to five days behind. but after the debate we're seeing the first wave of credible polling, and it's pretty obvious. there's been a trend for a long time that sometimes the reporting misses, but trump always oscillates between 41% and 44%. he's kind of stuck there, because he has limited demographic appeal. he can't get any minority voters and has a problem with caucasians that are college educated. on the other hand, when things are not going so well for hillary, she goes down to the mid-4 0s, creating the appearance of a tighter race than might actually be, because when she does better, the conventions or now this debate, she gets back up into the high 40s and the race settles into a four to five point lead with her. that's where we are with this new polling, and that's kind of
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whe unless he can get back in the race. >> donald trump seems to think it's exactly where he wants it as usual, saying he's always best when the frepressure's on. >> when the chips are down is when i perform the very best. that is always when i perform the best. that's when i make my best decisions, judgments, remember bernie saying hillary clinton has bad judgment? and honestly, my single greatest asset, probably is temperament. if you didn't have the right temperament, you could have never escaped that financial jungle, that's for sure. the single greatest asset is temperament, and i have a temperament for winning. you have to win. >> there's so much in that, using the phrase "when the chips are down", in a campaign. i have never heard a politician use the phrase "when the chips
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are down", even when the chips are down. >> the truth is, if we objectively look at donald trump's behavior, when the pressure's on, he makes his worst decisions. he loses the debate, goes into his own reality bubble about phony polls, and let's pick a feud with the former ms. universe, quite a hat trick, to offend both la tee foe -- latinos and women. he unscrewed his head and went crazy in pennsylvania at that speech a few days ago. it's the opposite. the more pressure this guy's under the more he doubles down on the crazy, which of course politically makes the situation worse. >> quickly, tomorrow night, the vice psintial debate, what do you expect to see? >> i'm planning some dental surgery, because i think it's going to be a pretty sleepy
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debate. it's going to be kitten boxing, i think. they're both competent governors, fairly likeable guys. pence has the tougher job because he's got to defend trump somehow, whereas tim kaine has just not to lose. somebody could make a bad mistake and affect the race. >> mike murphy, rest comfortably tomorrow. thank you forejoining us. up next, aiken walled's report. mom, i have to tell you something. dad, one second i was driving and then the next... they just didn't stop and then... i'm really sorry. i wrecked the subaru. i wrecked it. you're ok. that's all that matters. (vo) a lifetime commitment to getting them home safely. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. here you go.picking up for kyle.
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construction projects. he sent that money overseas. how can he make america great again when he won't even buy american products in our country? >> kurt eichenwald's new report documents donald trump's use of chinese steel. the latest story for "newsweek" has that reporting. here is what donald trump said about steel on saturday. >> we are going to protect our steelworkers. we can't let china take advantage of us anymore. >> pennsylvania steel will build this country like it built the empire state building many years ago. and pennsylvania steel and the incredible steelworkers will send new skyscrapers into the clouds. >> kurt eichenwald, senior writer for "newsweek" joins us
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now. pennsylvania steel is not going to build trump buildings if he keeps up his current pattern. >> no, it's not, they're not. you know, this, again, this is going to this theme of donald trump, where it's, you know, this is what's good for america, but hey, it's not good for me. i'm business. i need to do other things. and, you know, these purchases. when i say two out of three, the reason it's two out of three, i didn't finish the third one. i figured i had enough i had to print. at this point, i'm sure i would find the same in the third. he buys foreign steel because it saves him money. >> anybody who reads your report will discover how hard it was for to you track this steel down since they moved them through a bunch of different corporations, some located in the british virgin islands and other tax havens like that. it's very hard and obviously pains taking research on your
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part to get the china receipt on this stuff. >> trump isn't going off and buying from chinese steel incorporated. we're talking about holding companies within holding companies with british island subsidiaries, in one instance, something that looks like an american company, but then you find out it's actually a front for a chinese company that is dumping, using predatory pricing, dumping aluminum into the united states. and, you know, there's something that has to be pointed out here. every time trump gets caught on one of these things, he just says, well, it shows i'm a good businessman. that's not what this shows. donald trump run a public company. he doesn't have an obligation to shareholders to get the best price. we have a man who says i am so rich, i'm richer than anyone, i can afford anything. he could have taken a smaller profit. let's assume he does have $10 billion, which he doesn't. he could have said, well, maybe i only need $100 million in
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profit rather than $300 million. he didn't do that. he shipped that $200 million overseas. it could have gone to pennsylvania. it could have gone to ohio. it could have gone to wisconsin. instead, it went to shanghai. >> and there's also a reputation that chinese steel has within the steel industry as being on balance inferior, certainly to u.s. steel and other steel manufactured from other sources. and so it's cheaper for a reason. but the cheapness is the reason that donald trump got it. >> well, sure. i mean, the less money you spend on a project, the more profit you'll make. it's very simple. and, you know, trump, one of these things this reflects, it's the same thing as with taxes, the same thing with violating the cuban embargo on the hopes of making some money. all of these things go down to donald trump makes decisions based on what's best for donald
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trump. and what i'm, i'm so sorry that his supporters don't understand is that this man has been conning and tricking people in business and people in finance for decades. and, you know, this is just another example of it, and they, when he sits there saying oh, i want to rebuild the steel industry, but excuse me while i go buy my steel in china, there are just the latest marks on his biggest con ever. >> kurt, we could take a look at the trump policy book and say ah, he wants to fix this. he knows the way chinese steel is being used and here's his proposal to keep that from happening, but he has made absolutely no proposal at all that would stop his sons and his daughter from using chinese steel in any of their building projects while daddy's in the white house. >> no, and there's also something very important.
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we're not talking about the head of the chamber of commerce. we're talking about president of the united states. and a person who is running for that position has to be someone who is demonstrating a level of character that they are serving as the example. that they are saying, you know, i am dedicated to rebuilding america, whether i'm the president or not. and so i'm going to act in ways that are designed to help america. you can't suddenly say hey, if you put me in the big white mansion and give me the big, nice plane, i'll start working on your behalf, even though throughout my career, i've basically just been, you know, putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger, because it's made me more money. it doesn't work that way. >> kurt eichenwald, digging into the trump empire once again. thank you very much, kurt, really appreciate it. >> thanks for having my. up next, republicans who support donald trump now are going to have to explain it for a long time to come if the
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democrats have their way. niece. i don't use super poligrip for hold, because my dentures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free. remember when you said men are supeyeah...ivers? yeah, then how'd i get this... ...allstate safe driving bonus check? ...only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you're accident free. silence. it's good to be in, good hands. let's just get a sandwich or something. "or something"? you don't just graduate from medical school, "or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it.
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i'm not going to sit up here and do the hit for tat. >> there are a lot of months of prayer, of reflection, that i decided in november i intend to vote for donald trump. >> are you still supporting the republican nominee for president? >> guys i'm here to talk about -- nothing has changed. i'm focussed on my own race. >> everything you just heard is going to a democratic database that they plan to use two years from now in the next congressional elections. politico reports, democrats are plotting a post-election day campaign against individual republicans for nominating and sticking by dronald trump. anyone who stood with trump they
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intend to say enabled racism and a departure from conservative principles. joining us, a senior aid to president george w. bush in the white house. peter, you've been trying to convince your republican friends for a year now that video lives forever. and what donald trump says and what they have said about donald trump will live forever. and they may have to pay that price at some point. >> yeah, frankly, i think they should pay a price for it. because i don't think this is just any other election, this is not in my estimation a judgment of two candidates, i think to vote for donald trump is an intellectual mistake. and i am a conservative and brief in accountability. and i believe there will be some for it.
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he is a racist, a nativist. he is reckless, i do think he has a personality disorder, and my party, the republican party has lined up behind him, and that matters. >> have you had conversations with republicans who have done this, have lined up behind him, people in the paul ryan school of this, where you have found a zone of sympathy with the predicament you have found themselves? >> i have. i've actually been in touch with a fair number of pro-trump people, people friends of mine and in public office. there's a spectrum, somebody like paul ryan, i'm speaking of what ryan has said in public, not based on private conversations. he's obviously uncomfortable with him. and i think paul's argument is it would be better for the republic if it were trump rather than hillary clinton. but he's not wild about that. then there are other people who are quite enthusiastic about
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trump. i understand the former argument, you know, somewhat better. i disagree with it strongly, but it's the enthusiastic support for trump that frankly i just don't get, especially from people on the right who have spent their career on the opposite side of so many issues that donald trump is on. and now all of a sudden, it is as if whatever he says is right. and they jetis son those. and it makes people more cynical. and there's way enough cynicism in politics. we don't need more to be added to it. trump is doing that and supporters are adding to it. >> speaking of cynicism, aren't all those republicans that want to run again hoping that hillary clinton wins so they can run again in four years? >> i would think so. i would think they would hope she wins because deep down they
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know she would be the less reckless choice. but, yeah. my guess is that they would assume that she would be a one-term president. that's impossible to know at this point. but if were you to speculate, that's not an unreasonable judgment. and of course if donald trump is president of the party, is president, the damage that he does to the party is going to be even beyond what it is now. it's bad enough to have him as a nominee, trust me. but if he were the president, he would redefine the party, so fundamentally and so duringably that i'm not sure how the republican party would get out of that hole. i'm not sure how they're going to get out of this hole. >> thank you so much for joining us. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back.
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the world's most exciting technology... ...doesn't go on your wrist. ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with class-leading horsepower. it all culminated in this amazing assertion. >> i think my strongest asset maybe by far is my temperament. i have a winning temperament. i know how to win. >> that is an incredible statement. if you had looked into the camera and said, i am a small korean woman, it would have been more believable. and you can't incoherently rant about having the best temperament. it's like getting a forehead
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tattoo that says i have excellent judgment. >> msnbc's live coverage continues with "the 11th hour with brian williams." and it is next. the 11th hour begins now. >> good evening from our headquarters here in new york. donald trump has been at it again tonight. this time portraying himself as the comeback kid while speaking to a rally this evening in colorado. it has been a bad run for drurn ever donald trump en

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