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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 19, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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that's all for tonight. keep it here on msnbc for full coverage leading up to our live broadcast of the final presidential debate. chris hayes picks things up right now. >> good evening from the campus of beautiful university of nevada, las vegas. yes, nevada. host of the third and final presidential debate of 2016 which kicks off here on msnbc just three hours from now. i'm chris hayes. hillary clinton's campaign said it expects a scorched earth
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approach tonight from donald trump. >> we know what we'll see from donald trump. he sort of telegraphed a little bit. it will be scorched earth. it will be scorched earth. donald trump has made the entire gain going after people. >> trump's announced guests include president obama's half brother malik obama whose son was killed in the benghazi attacks. trump is also invited a woman who was briefly engaged in the 1990s to ambassador chris stevens who was told killed. four people trump calls angel moms whose relatives were killed by undocumented immigrants, and leslie, accused bill clinton of sexually assaulting her in 1980. trump who skimmed his debate walk-through enterser in a deep hole. polling averages show clinton leading by 7 points nationally.
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a new bloomberg politics add. clinton is up by 5, 39-34. a new poll out of utah shows trump trailing third party challenger evan mcmullin and barely ahead of clinton. clinton now has a better chance to win texas than trump does to take his must-win state of pennsylvania. and joining us now from the spin room. when the commissioner of presidential debates set forth basic idea that could you bring guests to the debate, they did not foresee that they would be used for this kind of circus like purpose. >> reporter: okay. so a couple of points to make here. i'm on my phone, i'm getting some information here in the last few minutes. a kuch additions to that guest list. i am told, sarah palin has been an invited guest to the debate tonight. very interesting. we're working to reach out to
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pale's folks. i share that with you as it comes to me from a source inside the campaign. the other person, mark geist, a survivor of the attack in benghazi. so clearly there is a strategy here to put these people in front of hillary clinton in the debate hall. we're not in the debate hall. we're down from where it is actually happening. when you talk about the strategy behind this. clinton's campaign is responding. my colleague, i'm paraphrasing staying clinton team is saying, what donald trump is doing, it is a political stunt. what hillary clinton is doing is bringing real people who illustrate issues of what matters to her. it is a dichotomy in strategies between these two candidates. >> all right. thank you for that update. joining me now, kristine, a deputies communications director for hillary for america. sense i just spent 60 seconds on
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the guest list of donald trump, is there a similar guest list from the clinton campaign? >> hillary wanted to invite people treatment fights of her life. the things that she's taken on throughout her career. she has a young man who she met as a child. he came to the white house when she was first lady when she was advocating for universal health insurance. she is a young dreamer. she has people who really represent the fights of her high of that she's taken on and the fights she'll take on as america's president. >> as you face this down. the second debate was a bizarrely dark chapter in american political history for a whole variety of reasons. there is some question that how much clinton engages. when she has the opportunity to pivot, to what does she pivot? does she spend time on the now nine women accusing donald trump of unwanted sexual groping or assault? or does she talk about immigration policy? how do you see that? >> you know, she has a very cheer view of this.
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she knows that the debate so far, the two have that have taken place have been very meaningful. people got to see these candidates face to face for the first time. they got to hear about their experience, their values. and hillary came out as the winner of both those debates. so she used this as a real opportunity for her shelf gets to speak to millions of americans including millions of undecided voters about her real plans. what she would do as president to create good paying jobs in this country. to make college more affordable. she's going in. she knows. donald trump can do whatever he wants. we understand that he has run a certain kind of campaign and that is his choice. this is her last chance to talk in a debate format to millions of americans and she is going to take that opportunity. >> i'm going to ask you a personal question but i doubt you'll answer honestly. do you hate him? >> oh, my gosh. no. we understand this is american voters. this isn't about donald trump. this is about our country. and hillary believes this is an
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opportunity to bring people together and get something done for this country. >> two things, one will be the mass hack of john podesta's private e-mail and the wikileaks rolling out. the vast majority seem fairly mundane. the workings of the campaign, although i think he'll highlight some that are controversial. and then notes from the fbi investigation. the now famous quid pro quo line which has been denied by both state and fbi. >> it has been debunked by the fbi ask state department. it is important to realize this happened after she left as secretary of state. >> that's the question. how much time does someone spend on the bureaucratic fight. >> she is, she will answer anyone's question. she'll answer chris's questions. whatever he brings up tonight. she is not going on miss that opportunity.
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joining me now, the home crowd. well. you apparently brought an entourage. here with the final debate, nevada is in some ways the swing state for the election. two large could not is nstituen. it is a very latino state. what pollsters call noncollege. white voters without a college education. for that reason, it seems to me, it has been really neck in neck, far longer than maybe you would have thought going in based on the overperformance. >> i've always thought the state leenld toward hillary clinton because of the latino voters and
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how well obama did in 2008 and 2012. but the words of donald trump are echoing in my words from when he won the caucus, he love the uneducated voters. that's one of the reasons because of nevada's demographic that's trump has been able to stay close. there have been three polls out that show clinton ahead by 6, 6, and 7 points. >> she's pulling away. >> i think she is. the real question in nevada. i don't know how much you want to talk about it. what the down ballot will be on what may be the most important senate race in the country. the race for harry reid's seat. the only seat republicans have a chance to take. >> that gives a window. i've been watching tv here. it is crazy how many political ads there are. she is hand chosen by harry reid. she is running against joe heck. and this is the exact thing happening in senate races around
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the country. the republican democrat outperforming trump by 7 points. somewhere around there. but there is only so much you can outperform and keep your head above water. >> i think what is really critical here, as trump continues to plummet, he continues to drive down the rest of those candidates and that's very clearly happening in nevada. based on the polls, now that you saw after heck decided to disavow himself from trump. where you now see that she is pulling ahead. and the more he continues with his vile rhetoric against immigrants, religious minorities, et cetera, the mother continues being him, the better that people like that. >> it is remarkable to me, we're 20 days before the election somewhat improbably, immigration became such a big part. because of the hard line
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position of donald trump. >> which is important. immigration was always cited as an important issue for latinos. it was never number one. it was about the economy, education. now it is being polled at number one. >> here. >> yes in the latinos decision poll, you saw that immigration was the number one issue. and this is because, this is -- >> because of trump. and we've seen, now winning that race and outperforming trump. flirting with the idea of a path to citizenship. you may see a back lash effect on trump in which he has managed to tox five it. >> i think you do do all the things since that press conference in june of 2015 and how he has tried to walk it back and go back the other way. >> what is interesting about the latino decisions poll.
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yes, immigration is number one. in the senate race, hillary clinton is defeating in the presidential race, donald trump, 72-17. in the senate race, katherine cortes is defeating joe heck. 54-34. >> you've emerged in this campaign as a kind of, i don't know what the proper term is. the freelance responder. >> i just call it what it is. trump troll extraordinaire. >> i was going to call that. what do you expect to see tonight? >> i don't know. to me, i think donald will come out, at least trying to be a little bit presidential. and then the minute he takes a second or third punch, he'll revert back to form and that's
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when it will get interesting. >> you know, this now seems so long ago because of how insane the cycle has been, that trump's tax returns, his business dealings interesting three pages of the 1996 return. really central. that's still there. if you're thinking about how this man would be as president, how much do you still think about that? as learning about what his record has been? >> it's critical. let's not forget trump university. to me that's even more of an indication. you're talking, 6,000 people that he took money from. and in return, gave nothing. and that is relatively recent. so when you put him all together, you have to ask just how ethical is this man when it comes the dealing with every day people. >> there's something about watching this whole thing develop that has been fascinating. how far you can get in high of with a good sales pitch or a kind of confident hustle without
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being cowed by folks. i wonder if that's a recognizable teach to you there your business carrier. >> you mean fake it until you make it? >> yeah. basically. >> you can't get that far unless you start with a couple hundred million from daddy. a lot of people learn a lot, or could learn a lot if they could lose $50 million of their dad's moan by the time they're 53 and that gives you a head's start. so for everyday people, in my experiences, you can fake it for ten minutes but at some point you have to deliver. >> do you, are you worried about what happens after this campaign given the rhetoric we've seen increasingly from the trump folks about a rigged election? >> i'm glad you brought that up. i've been trying on figure out what the benefit is for being rigged. i can't find one. what i can find is a significant. a benefit for breitbart news.
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to me it is, if a lot of the tack that's he's been taking, rigged elections, everybody working against them. that's breitbart's marketing plan i'm a big believer that steve bannon is a lot smarter than donald trump and he is really driving this. he has gotten to the point where there is a high probability donald will not went. so he is playing it out to the benefit of breitbart news. how many think he's saying that truly, donald's perspective and his positions, versus things, could they help breitbart news? when you listen to donald talk in his speeches, it is almost far more beneficial for breitbart. >> interesting. thank you for joining us. i appreciate it, man. >> my pleasure. >> we have a lot more to come. i'll talk on a member of the trump campaign. and later, kareem abdul jabbar, the one and only, joins no
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discuss the climb for muslim americans during the election. [ keyboard typing ]
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intercom: the library is now closing. ok kid, closing up. goodnight. the hardest part about homework shouldn't be figuring out where to do it.
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through internet essentials, comcast has connected over 3 million people in need to low-cost internet at home. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. this morning on msnbc, republican senator steve schmidt predict a disaster. listen carefully to what he is predicting. >> what's the over/under on the electoral college victory for hillary clinton? >> i think she is trending over 400. >> trending over 400. >> yes. >> so democrats take senate? >> yes. >> democrats take house? >> close. they could take it. >> if this election with today, i think republicans are down 25 seats. as of today. with the trend line going in the
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wrong direction. the poll numbers are not good. >> for the house. >> the panic is beginning. >> joining me now, a.j. delgado, political strategist rick wilson, senior adviser for the campaign. so here's my question to you. why, here the republican party folks are saying donald trump needs to get out of the breitbart cul-de-sac. he needs to stop doing thing like inviting malik obama. he needs to be reaching to the voters between the 40%, 38% he's at now and the 46 or 47 he needs to win. is that a legitimate complaint? >> i take issue that you consider it trolg that he is inviting mr. obama. he has chosen not to support the person his brother supports. as for trump reaching out, he does that every day. he is on the campaign trail every day.
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two, three cities a day sometimes speaking to the american public on the issues that matter. jobs, the economy, trade, immigration. >> kellyanne talks about this. the thing he's been talking about a lot is the polls are rigged. this is all a grand conspiracy. >> and the media sfenlt last two weeks talking about these scandalous allegations that have all been debunked. name me one that is credible. >> i think they're all credible. the story from "people" magazine who had six people contemporaneously. >> no one has corroborated. >> she was in the room. >> that is the problem. if he wants to litigate, this seem to be a disaster for him. look, what were you really saying? >> what we're seeing is the last twitches of a dying animal. this is steve bannon trying to poke this bear one last time to try to get it to do something wasn't a complete political
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disaster. the fact they're bringing thought stunt casting to rattle hillary clinton. they tried it in the second debate. it didn't do a thing on rattle her. he embarrassed himself more thoroughly than was even imaginable. if he does the same thing tonight, it will continue the trend line where we're looking at a situation where donald trump starts to collapse in states like georgia and texas. and in utah today, a reliably red state, my guy is leading donald trump as a conservative with principle. he is collapsing everywhere. trump is not improving his position anywhere in the country right now. >> do you think that's not true? >> it has been a rough tim of weeks because of the media narrative. i won't deny that. >> that was remarkably reality based. >> i'm so glad you said that. you were actually honest about where trump has been. >> we're not a dying animal. we're up a point in rasmussen. we're up in ohio. >> you're even in texas.
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you're down in georgia. >> good. great. >> these false allegations that you're using as a distraction. >> it has a media narrative. it is the actual facts on the ground. the state polls for donald trump are collapsing across the country, across the board. >> and we still have three weeks left to go. >> donald trump has done nothing about the issues. he is completely fact-free and issue-free campaign. >> that kind of blanket statement is all they have. >> okay, fine. >> only one on trade that has a real policy on trade. you know what? fact-free, hillary clinton has nothing about -- >> this policy is a -- [ yelling ] >> all right, all right. let's just keep the language appropriate. i know this campaign tends to do that to people. as we've seen -- sorry about
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that. okay. so this is my point. i think, here's what i feel like. i feel like chris wallace and hillary clinton and you're saying donald trump want to talk about the issues. but there will be an opening for donald trump. is he going to take the path to do that? he has not talked about his immigration policy in two debates so far which is astounding to me. >> the moderators haven't broad it up. on purpose. that's his strongest issue. >> i agree that it is strange it hand been a question but you can take an opportunity. if that's what you want to talk about -- >> in the debate where donald trump could answer a question about the economy and say by the way on the subject of trade of which i wish to speak about. >> when he pivots on an issue of interest -- >> but what he will pivot to instead is saying things like, well, if crooked hillary would look out at the audience at barack obama's half brother. >> did he reference the women during the last debate?
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>> no. >> you guys put that out. >> did he reference it? you said he would say look at barack obama's brother. did he say look at the women? >> he couldn't say look at the women. the moderator said, you're not playing this game. and frank told your guys very directly. he told rudy and he told bannon very directly. you're not playing this game. we're not having them on the stage where you want them. these people are part of trump side show that has gone on for a year and a half. >> trump spectacle. >> where he has degraded american politics in such a way. if donald trump was working for the democrats, you couldn't have been more destructive. >> do you think your candidate, do you think that donald trump is being sabotaged by the gop? >> no. we're working well with them. no. >> you don't think so. ryan's favorability plummeted among republicans about 30 points in the week after, two weeks after -- >> how is paul ryan, do, by the
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way? >> what do you mean? >> his favorability. >> that's my point. donald trump and him got into, paul ryan condemned him after the tape came out. his favorability plummeted dramatically. what does that say to you? >> that republicans need donald trump. they need donald trump's face. he is helping draw out voters to the gop. the people that will come out to cast a vote for donald trump -- perhaps cast that down ballot vote for other republicans. it is the gop that needs trump. >> do you believe his campaign manage here said it is widespread? >> yes. >> that's why steve bannon just hired the guy who he had the black panthers video. >> something can happen and not be widespread. >> let's go back to what you said. republicans need donald trump. they need donald trump like they need herpes.
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>> oh, play to the crowd. playing to the crowd. >> republicans and their brand. he is utterly poisonous to them. he has single handily -- >> i will say this. i will say this. that a.j. did manage to get to the segment without cursing or mentioning an std. something we're all hoping for for tonight's debate frankly if we can get through 90 minutes without either of those. thank you both. i really appreciate it. well, where are we now, folks? we have a lot more to come including the unshackled trump campaign in the last ten days. plus, a very special guest kareem abdul jabbar joins me right after this break.
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hello, everyone. i'm michael jordan and i'm here with hillary. i said that because i know donald trump couldn't tell the difference. >> kareem abdul jabbar got a big laugh at donald trump's expense this summer before the six-time champion introduced himself properly. at which point he spoke about u.s. army captain, an american muslim soldier who died many combat while serving in iraq. perhaps there's no one more suited to discuss it than the very public conversion in his words encited criticism.
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that was many years ago. joining me now, kareem abdul jabbar, the nba's all time leading scorer and best selling author. nice to have you here. >> thank you. >> you've taken a prominent role in this campaign and you're someone who has always had a very developed and engaged sense of politics. but you are engaged in electoral politics this time around in a way i don't feel like you have recently. what is driving that in. >> i was very concerned about the way things were going in our country with all the division and people, the hate speech that is starting to grow up. and it has borne some fruit and it is very scary. i don't like seeing that in my country and i wanted to do to what i can to speak to the issue. >> the proposed ban of muslims, of everything donald trump has done, that speaks out. it is an actual policy that he said he would institute as
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president. he is now massaging the margins. what do you think that that was not the moment when we saw republicans break with their nominee but later we have seen it? >> i think the republicans were not going to get upset until mr. trump started to alienate people who could win the election for them. when he said the things that he has said about the way that he treats women, women are the majority of our electorate. a lot of people who can vote him in or out of office and he is seeing the results. >> one of the things that's disturbing about this campaign, and i am curious about how much we'll see, just how much you can say and generalize about muslim merges and how much you can get away with saying they saw the bombs in san bernardino and didn't say anything, even though that's not true. do you think there is a certain bigotry that has been unmasked? >> i think sometimes people
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really don't realize how many targets there are out there. now that muslims have been moved into positions of being targets, some people have really embrace that had and started a whole new movement targeting muslims. >> there is a line that donald trump uses in the speech about one people, one nation, is salu under one flag. some people think about colin kaepernick. donald trump has spoken up about it. here is someone in the spotlight and took a bunch of stand that's were unpopular at the time. i'm curious what you think as you watch thought play out. >> i think the people who understand what our constitution is about, what the founding fathers had in mind, i think they will come to the forefront. and both the way that they're supposed to vote. and this will pass, hopefully. that is what i'm hoping. i know my country and i know the people in it.
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for the most part, they're decent people who can see what's going on. >> you seem confident and upbeat as this is playing out as opposed to traumatized. >> you can't get through the whole day without dealing with certain negative aspects of what this campaign has drawn out of our population. but i think it is a good thing. we have to understand what the problems are before we can deal with them. if we have people who really feel the way that some of these people feel, we have to do something about it. >> donald trump obviously zbeets a lot of feuds. you had written something somewhat critical of him, he wrote you a note saying deer kareem. now i know why the press treated you so badly. they couldn't stand you. you don't have a clue about how to make america great again. is it weird to be on the receiving end of that?
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>> yes. it is called writings on the wall. a phenomenal writer. great to have you with us. thank you. >> nice talking with you. >> thank you. >> the last debate falls into familiar territory. more of the same tonight plus the clinton's campaign plan to avoid a last-minute.
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back in las vegas, nevada. the site of the final, finally, final trump-clinton debate. the first two debates clearly did not do trump any favors. it was pointed out before the first debate, hillary clinton was only leading by an average of 1.5. now going into the third she is 7.1 points ahead of trump. after the ugliness of specially second one, people want more discussion of actual policy. but given the insanity of the trump campaign over the last week and a half, it may be hard to get to those issues. we made a list of all that's happened. since the last debate trump has been accused of unwanted physical contact by at least nine women. called those women liars and tools of the clinton campaign implying some of them were too
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unattractive to assault. going to war with paul ryan. accused of taking drugs. accused an possibly of participating in global conspiracy with international banks. accused a mexican billionaire of fixing the election. alleged widespread voter fraud is taking place especially in quote/unquote certain communities. this list in all likelihood is not comprehensive. the super pac supporting donald trump and form he michigan governor who is a senior adviser, co-chair of clinton's transition team. let me start with you. you had a tweet storm today. so you're someone, you're a never trumper, right? >> effectively, yes. and i've been very resistant to taking stand. i've been never hillary from the beginning but i've really resisted the never trump. to me the tape and the groping allegations are just too much. i'll be voting for evan
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mcmullin. >> so you're a republican down in austin. you've been in the game a while. you had a sort of tweet storm today. from an institutional perspective of the republican party. as people are looking at internal polling, that's freaking them out. what you want to see out of the debate. >> what i want to see and what he's capable of doing are two separate things. that said, it would be good if he showed some contrition. it would be good if he put a vision out there of what the country would look like after four years. it would be good if he demonstrated real discipline and if he let the debate go into a policy area. i think chris wallace tonight will focus, make hillary clinton answer some tough questions. do i. that may be really the tough time. the more of trump there is, the less you can let the news around clinton dominate. if this campaign is about trump, he lose. if bits hillary, she loses. the last few weeks it's been all about trump. >> what about contrition and discipline?
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>> i think he got into the election. he had five major issues which i believe he was in tune with the american people. fwaug illegal immigration, talking about protecting the board. i know his rhetoric sometimes overstates what his positions are. talking about his tax policies and creating jobs. so i agree with him. that we need to come back to those five policy issues. there is no bigger discrepancy between donald trump and hillary clinton than on national security and creating jobs. he needs to get back to that message. >> and then at the same time, today's whole news cycle is driven by the cast caring that's donald trump is bringing. these malik obama. seen in a photo. it says jerusalem will be hours from the river to the sea. you know -- here is a woman who, here it is. jerusalem is ours from the river to the sea. there's a woman who was briefly engaged to chris stevens who
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tragically lost his life in benghazi. a family whose asked not to be politicized. the woman engaged 17 years ago is brought. if that's the strategy, it is not being shown in the run-up to the debate. >> we are campaign professionals. you're behind. right? you're way behind in a lot of states so there are four or five things you have to accomplish. you have to turn it back around and make it, like you said, make it a referendum on hillary. but then the campaign goes out and they spend the resources. going to get barack obama's half brother from kenya? by the way, i assure you hillary clinton could care less. >> absolutely. just to be laser focused on the important facts of this, i think he lives in d.c. >> a cheaper charter flight. so eric made this point about
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immigration. the latest fox news poll shows plummeting support for his immigration policy. that you may, you're ending up in a situation where what we've learned about the way people reason. they don't think about the issues and then find the candidate. they find the candidate and then they deduce the issues. if you have a candidate who is toxic, that candidate can make issues that were working in the beginning. >> and her contrast, she's bringing a cast characters but bits immigration. she'll be talking about a path to citizenship. she'll be talking about clean energy. we hope she is bringing the league of conservation voters as one of the people. the issues she is talking about are representative of the people she's inviting. and that's why, i think, if this is on issues. she totally wins. because she's got a whole -- people care about it. >> and also, to talk about them
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for a long period of time. i want to play a fascinating piece of sound. a quote from marco rubio about wikileaks. i think that will come up a lot. i'll play it right after this break. don't go anywhere. third president?
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male teacher: and the largest planet? someone we haven't heard from. female teacher: anyone else? through internet essentials, comcast has connected more than 3 million people in need
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to low-cost, high speed internet at home, helping to make sure that every hand in the classroom goes up. male teacher: okay, veronica. amphibian. male teacher: excellent. welcome to a brighter future. comcast. we are back here on the campus of the university of nevada, las vegas. a lot of folks are very excited about tonight's debate which starts in just about two hours, i think. all right. i want to play this bit of sound from marco rubio talking about wikileaks. because obviously, it has been this kind of weird thrum in the back ground. because we're all natural veyers, there's nothing more fun. here is what marco rubio had to say about it.
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>> i personally will not be talking about any revelation that's come about solely as a result of wikileaks. our intelligence officials who are not partisan people have told us, this is work of a foreign intelligence agency. and we cannot be a country where foreign intelligence agencies can interfere or influence our political process. what i would say to my republican colleagues, some of whom may be disappointed by the position i've taken, today it is them. tomorrow it could be us. i think there is plenty of information to take on secretary clinton. i think this is an invitation for chaos and havoc in the future. >> what do you think? >> yeah. i happen to agree. don't talk with the sourcing of information. but i do think there are some things that need to be questioned. and that come from the debate and comes from the media. it also comes on turning this about, making this about hillary clinton. >> what about it? >> you look at, for example, we have dorothy woods, the wife of ty woods as part of our group.
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what happened in benghazi? there are some tid bits in there that lead to some things. >> you think ultimately he needs on pivot away from saying the women accusing him are too ugly to grope toward benghazi. >> i think she pivot to basically five core issues. west the american people on all of those people. i think if he drives that and makes it more are what are her positions. you kept saying, she's going to talk about this and that. she doesn't have to lay out an immigration plan shelf doesn't to have lay out on health care. >> she did talk about it last time. >> she didn't. she said donald trump had to defend more substance than she. did i think if we can make it more about what she will offer to the american people. they may be disappointed. >> on this wikileaks issue, because what marco rubio said is right i appreciate what you said about it. donald trump has had the same briefings. he has been told that the
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russians have hacked in. and i would wonder if she is going to put him on the spot tonight and say, will you acknowledge that our intelligence agencies have briefed you, that the russians have hacked in and didn't this happen after you exhorted them to hack into e-mail. >> we think the hack happened before. >> but the bottom line is you can trace this whole line of donald trump's relationships to russia and then ask the question, why is that it vladimir putin so wants you to be president is this. >> here's part of the issue to me with turning, this idea that you'll make about it hillary. this referendum on hillary. it seems to me 20 days before the election, it is all pricing, yes, she has not great number in trustworthiness, for instance. there are all sorts of polling that people associate her with being an insider. but that's priced in. i don't think it is anything that you'll say to 55 million
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people tonight and think, i had not thought about that. but hillary clinton sure is an insider. >> if you remember to three week before the first debate. those were probably the best three weeks before the general election started. it is because hillary was on defense. the fbi came out. she was on defense over the health questions. the focus was on her. >> she was on defense for having pneumonia. and transparency issues. my point, is going forward. i agree with what rubio said. i think it was very important for him to say and it he is in a unique position to say the. >> that's interesting. >> the point he made, they can go after democrats now but they may be going after republicans next. russia should not be a partisan issue. that said, the fbi e-mail has nothing to do with wikileaks. >> the fbi investigation, the notes which of have been released. and it was in the notes that one accused patrick kennedy of
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proposing the quid pro quo. that has been denied by the state department and the fbi. also, hillary clinton was gone by that point so it is sort of a retroactive conversation happening. >> and the voters' eyes are glazing over. >> yes, thank you for saying that. and it relates to the question, this is a certain degree of the kind of breitbart bubble we call it. and we saw it in the first clinton administration. the air strip in arkansas the governor was running drugs out of. you can't get 45, 46% of the electorate. you have to give him between 38, his floor, and 36. those 8% to have hear something. >> i know i'm going to be an outlier. when you look at what trump is doing right now, it doesn't make any straight campaign sense. he is not trying to win november. he is trying win post november. i think there's something where he will try to take a piece of
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your party along with him post november. >> i agree. >> i think doubling down on the birther i, doubling down on all the nasty vile stuff. >> he takes 30 million people to create a nationalist party. and media network around that. and that's what he is doing. >> we'll wager on this. >> you're comparing the tea party movement. or these conspiracy theories. the anti-government. he tried to do it in the first debate for the first 30 minutes. he was pretty successful. in making her, if he wants to run as a change agent and make it a referendum on her that she can't be a change agent because she is part of a broken system for 30 yearsering should continue to do that. and i think that's sealing of anti-government or we don't trust government is a lot higher than we think. >> in many ways, donald trump has part of what allowed him to win the primary was sloughing
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off a lot of the orthodoxy around anti-government. a 45% tariff isn't anti-government. it is a very muscular intervention. you were saying, he also wanted the things they want to talk about. debt and entitlements or as i call it, social insurance. donald trump has been cheer he doesn't want them cut. so what donald trump has represented, he was able to find where the republican voter was. they were not into the whole anti-government orthodoxy they've been fed by paul ryan. >> or the deficit. $13 trillion worth of deficit. >> he was more lick lib tarean. he even ran against super pacs in terms of political process.
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really for people who say i'm tired of this system and i want to represent that. >> a lot of it was inference. that was a better message than, i would never have groped that woman because she's not attractive enough. thanks for your time. we are live from the university of nevada in las vegas leading up to the presidential debate.
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the final presidential debate. don't go anywhere. leading up to the main event which you can watch right here on msnbc starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. >> big casino. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews at the university campus, las vegas. tonight is the last chance for hillary clinton and donald trump to reach massive television audience. i figure 80 million at least. trump reeling in recent polls needs a game changer. will he

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