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tv   MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson  MSNBC  November 29, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PST

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confirmed elaine cho for transportation. follow the show online. hallie jakubauskas s hallie jackson is here with her own reporting. >> totally appreciate it. hi, everybody. it's 30 rock today with a bunch of developing stories this hour starting with what you heard of andrea mitchell. a new name in donald trump's cabinet. a top transition source confirming to me moments ago that elaine cho will be the transportation secretary. not only a former cabinet member, but also the wife of majority leader mitch mcconne and donald trump's team finalizing what you could call a victory tour. it will start thursday. we'll talk transition and why donald trump cannot quit the campaign trail. also, an update on the wildfires in tennessee. thousands of people running for their lives. no deaths reported now but drought is making a bad situation even worse. we'll have the latest. we'll also have the latest on what we know about the five survivors of a deadly plane crash in colombia that killed
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almost an entire soccer team of brazil with 76 people dead, a nation and an international community in mourning. we have a lot to get to over the next 60 moneys. we want to start with politics. ann thompson in front of trump tower in manhattan. kasie hunt out on capitol hill. steve kor thnacki here on set. ann, i want to talk about the elaine cho pick. she is and let's be honest, an establishment pick. no stranger to washington. >> reporter: yes. she is very much of the swamp, if you will. elaine cho bring chao served both president bush 41 and president bush 43. under 41, she was the deputy secretary of transportation. and under 43, george w. bush, she was the secretary of labor. the only member of his cabinet to serve all eight years of his
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administration. she's also been director of the peace corps. so she's someone who really knows her way around washington. and that's going to be very important to president-elect trump because one of his big campaign promises was to revitalize and repair the nation's infrastructure. in fact, he proposed a $1 trillion plan to do just that. and that pn is going to need congressional approval. and it just so happens that elaine chao is married to a man who will vote on the proposal, mitch mcconnell. she is a good pick because of her connections and the knowledge that she brings to a team that ran on an outsider status and any administration needs people who know how washington works so they can deliver on their campaign promises. >> ann, picking up on the idea that the woman who will be in
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charge of the department tasked with sort of shepherding through big infrastructure spending, if what the president-elect said on the campaign trail is any indication, married the guy to have to get that bill through congress. steve, you know, senator graham tweeting christmas at the mcconnell household sure will be interesting. talk about this. a ton of money on infrastructure with a party that traditionally doesn't want to see that big spending. >> yeah, no. this is one of the topics, a subjects where donald trump in the campaign has separated himself from traditional tea party orthodoxx. sort of medicare, social safety net's another one and the issue of infrastructure's big. believe it or not, though, this dynamic of the senate majority leader a republican and the transportation secretary and the republican administration being his wife has happened before. back in reagan's presidency, bob dole was the top republican in the senate his wife elizabeth was the secretary of transportation and there were articles of conflicts.
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>> interesting. >> potential issues arising and there were no major scandals or anything out of that. >> and the labor secretary? >> she was the labor secretary. ran the red cross and ran for president herself. senate. power couple if ever there was one. >> a lot of parallels and power washington couple here, too. >> absolutely. >> i want to talk about a different cabinet position, tom price for health and human services. obviously big critic of the affordable care act and basically wrote the bill to repe repeal it and has a plan to replace it. how does he actually do it? >> reporter: well, that's the trick. it is easier said than done, obviously to repeal and specifically to replace the affordable care act. we know that republicans since they started opposing this law when it was being written and in their vocal opposition they have always used this framework, repeal and replace because they know that there are some
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elements pretty popular, key in that is the protection for people with preexisting medical conditions. of course, if you were sick, and you were not previously able to buy insurance, now insurance companies have to cover you but the way the financing of that works is the other pieces of the law of mandate that's very unpopular. so, republicans have never said, we just want to get rid of this and do nothing to fix it but the challenge of a governing perspective, this is where tom price and the republican congress come in, they will have different roles but the challenge for congress is that they can probably dismantle the law with just 50 votes in the senate using a tool of budget reconciliation. but it's much, much harder to use that same set of tools to pass new legislation. so -- >> but wait. in plain english, reconciliation basically means -- i think you said this this morning. 50 votes. >> it's an arcane budget. procedural move that you can use in the senate in particular.
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that's where it matters because you need usually 60 votes to pass normal legislation because it's subject to a filibuster. budget reconciliation, essentially how you agree to these large spending bills in congress only takes 50 votes. a simple majority. >> got it. >> in the senate. so you can use the budget tools to essentially gut the affordable care act. it's much easier to do that than it is to use the rules to write new laws basically. so, if you're trying to write a new law, trying to replace the health care law you dismantled you need 60 votes to do that and republicans acknowledge that's the challenge in front of them. in the house they can pass whatever they want. republicans control the chamber and then over to the senate. what happens then? how do republicans square that circle? tom price, someone who has been up here and i think you want to pay attention to mike pence in this equation, as well. they overlapped here in the house of representatives.
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they were in many ways, you know, their colleagues would argue cut from the same cloth. very conservative. ideologically conservative. and he will be running hhs. that matters because a lot of the health care law is written in the regulations. and the department of health and human services has a lot of power they don't need congress for. >> our colleague ellis spoke with a woman worried of losing the coverage under president trump and changed the birth control she used. take a listen. >> i made an appointment immediately after the results of the election because i wanted a permanent form of birth control to last me past the next four years because i don't know what my options are going to be during the next four years. >> so that's katie and i think that that illustrates what some folks are feeling about the potential loss of the affordable care act. what happens to the coverage? what happens to women like katie if, you know, under the republican proposals now if in fact the affordable care act is
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repealed? >> this is case by case. but the reality is donald trump doesn't actually have to repeal the affordable care act to change the rules specifically for birth control simply because of the way this is organized. basically, the affordable care act main dates that insurance companies pay for preventive health care for women. that prevents you know, later problems and then the health abe human services department which tom price is now going to be running if he gets approved by the senate decides what is on the list of those services. what are the things? is it mammograms, screenings for cervical cancer? birth control? and there was actually a lobbying fight within like during the obama administration and groups of planned parenthood making sure that birth control is on the list of health care and if hhs takes it off, trump administration, then the woman
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we just heard from would potentially be facing a different set of choices. >> steve, we have been talking about transition, talking about cabinet an now talking about something that feels like campaign from 2016 which is donald trump back on the road for this thank you tour. a victory lap you could call it. this is kind of unusual for president-elect to do. >> it's unusual and consistent with donald trump. >> sure. unusual candidate. >> by all accounts, a guy who loved going to the mega rallies, 10,000, 15,000 people in an arena and bask in that. to look for a parallel, bedid see back in 1992, bill clinton that year he loved getting out and campaigning in bus tours. they went around the country. he and his wife, al, tipper gore, went into the heartland and liked it so much in the weeks leading up to his inauguration, january '93 he took one more bus tour into the capitol for the inauguration so i guess -- >> it's been done. >> maybe a parallel there. >> with bill clinton and interesting sort of historical
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-- >> each had the favorite type of campaigning. >> thank you very much for being us, ann thompson, kasie hunt on capitol hill. want to update you just in the last minutes. senator bob corker entering trump tower. the tennessee senator under consideration we are told for the position of secretary of state. and we are just learning that the british prime minister spoke with president-elect trump today with downing street giving a brief readout of the call saying they talked about establishing a regular dialogue between both of them and talking about nato and the importance of nato which is particularly interesting so we'll break it down later on in the show with a favorite favorite guru. men time, also asking you this microsoft pulse question. speaking of that short list of secretary of state, mitt romney is on it. is he a good choice? what do you think in weigh in. we want the know your opinion. coming up, the president-elect tweeting this morning that burning the american international shouldn't just be illegal but punished by taking
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away someone's citizenship. so this is the constitution versus the next commander in chief. we will hash it out in the daily debate later. but first, wildfires out of control in tennessee. update on why first responders are struggling to get a handle on the flames today. world ugly and messy. they are the natural born enemy of the way things are. yes, ideas are scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful.
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we have breaking news out of tennessee where strong winds and unprecedented drought adding fuel to wildfires in the great smoky mountains. lock at the video. threatening towns, cities, tourist spots. 12 people are in the hospital. all of them expected to survive. but thousands of other people are still out of their homes and the popular resort towns of gatlinburg and pigeon forge and under mandatory evacuation
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orders. of those fortunate enough to stay home, 12,000 don't have power. in the last hour, u.s. senator bob corker of tennessee said, quote, so many wonderful families call this place home and millions around the world visit the great smoky nationmou national parks. we are committed to helping them rebuild. joining me is lieutenant bill miller of the tennessee highway patrol. lieutenant, talk to me a little bit about the worst being over. that's what we're hearing s. that your assessment on the ground? are people safe? >> we want to make sure that we get everyone out of area and that no one else enters into the area. we believe that we do have everyone out. we evacuated over 14,000 people last night. that's a joint collaborative effort of all local agencies, state agencies. fire and ems. everyone who could respond to the area. we have about 100 troopers that are deployed and working around
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the clock to make sure that safety is the number one goal. we believe the worse is probably behind us and our hope is. we were very blessed to get some rain last night that did, you know, calm the fires down somewhat. but it's very serious situation. >> so you say the worst is behind you. what is ahead is just a massive recovery effort. major clean-up. rebuilding. are you prepared? is your community prepared for that? can anybody really prepare for that? >> you know, you know, these situations, the state, the department of safety, homeland security, the tennessee emergency management office, the governor's office, this is something that all emergency officials prepare for. and mitigate for. are you ever really prepared for this? probably not. this is a very devastating, tremendously horrific fire that has damaged hundreds of buildings. there's been hundreds of structures that are lost. there's been parts of the parks
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and that are just devastated by this fire. will they rebuild? will gatlinburg rebuild? i hope so and i believe in my heart they will. it's a beautiful part of the state. it is a very historical part of the state and it means so much to so many people that come to gatlinburg and said their vows and got married in this historical city. we believe that it will rebuild. it will take time. it's probably going to take a lot of assistance to get this to happen but we do know that the strength of the tennessee people is very strong, the strength of our nation is very strong. and we will come back and it will be bigger and better and stronger than ever. >> lieutenant, very quickly, looking at the images, i'm reminded as my time in los angeles covering wildfires like these and hearing about wildfires out west not in tennessee. any explanation hof how the fires started and spread? >> you know, that's all under
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investigation. >> okay. >> really is a state -- unethical and not professional on my part. i couldn't say. but the fact is they started. and they have caused tremendous damage and millions and millions of dollars have been lost due to this devastating fire and we are just so blessed and thankful no lives have been lost. >> lieutenant bill miller, thank you very much for joining us of the tennessee highway patrol. good luck to you. >> thank you. scott stevens, director of university of california for fire research. wildfires happen all the time, every year. not in the coldest parts of the country and not often in november there. right? so explain how this happened. >> well, you are right. if you look at the burning in the east now, unprecedented. certainly the drought sets up the stage for fuels to be available to burn. but normally, we don't see this activity in the east and maybe we see more of that if climate continues to change and be less unpredictable.
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>> i left my fire out west. you study fires. what are the biggest differences? are they different or is a wild fire just a wildfire? >> there are differences. the fires in the east oak woodlands and leaf litter burning with flame length and moderate in terms of size. three, four feet but huge amounts of smoke. when you get that burning you get so much smoke and that certainly causes health impacts. in the west drier periods as you say in l.a. and other places, the fires to cause damage quickly so they there are some differences and differences at also commonalities. >> and the common point is drought. >> it is. if you think about the interface, california and southwest u.s., but if you look at the number of houses in the nation actually near wildland areas to burn, it is highest in the east. in the appalachian mountains, happening today. even though they have had less fire there, there's potential to impact a lot of people more people living in the urban
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interface there. >> do you try to fight them differently? >> probably do less aerial stuff. doing a lot more ground work, burning out trying to contain the fire of burning out fuel in front of it and trying to deal with the houses. we heard that the houses are a loss. tragedy. luckily no one's killed and i think the east set up for more fire in the future and people probably haven't realized it. >> as an east coast person, when i moved out west, you don't realize as an east coaster how prevalent the threat is. is this a new reality for people living in places like tennessee? >> i think it's potential. places where there's pine, pine is natural part of the ecosystems. burns much better in terms of the litter. less hardwood, more pine. some areas more prone to fire like this but i think we're headed where the east is more different in terms of its ability to deal with fire and probably going to be some things to mitigated and thought of to try to prevent it. >> like what? >> i think maybe you start to
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think about defensible space. defensible space idea in the west is better about the house, vegetation clearance. rake your leaves. trees away from the house and works. probably think of that more in the east. >> when you look -- last one for you before you go but looking at gatlinburg and pigeon forge, you heard the lieutenant of the tennessee highway patrol looks like the worst is behind them but the wind, look at the dry conditions, even with some of the rain they have got, are you concerned that there are more places that could be in danger? >> well, i think you can. i think the big deal is the rain. i saw on the forecast this morning that maybe rain is headed that way and didn't have rain for months. unusual for them. rain is the issue. getting on the ground, it's not going to burn like it is now but i think we are probably set for more conditions like this in the future with more variability in the climate. >> scott stevens, thank you very much for that perspective and good information there. appreciate it. >> good to be here. classes back in session at
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the ohio state university right now. just one day after a former student attacked people on campus with a car and a knife. new today, attention on the facebook posts right before the attacks. so we're going to look at what they might tell us about why he did it and whether he was acting alone. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is literally crawling, but there is some movement
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♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. we are taking another look at the attack at ohio state university that left faculty members and staff and students hurt. officials identify the suspect shot and killed by police as 18-year-old abdul razak artan. authorities are investigating a motive, why he did it, trying to. they haven't ruled out terrorism. in about 90 minutes from now we just learned that osu will have a briefing on the status of the victims of the attacks. nbc's kevin tibbles on the osu campus with the latest. what have we learned? what new information do we have
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since this began to unfold yesterday around this time? >> reporter: well, if i could pick off where you started there, there's a news conference by the hospital. two of the victims of the 11 that were injured yesterday remain in the hospital. and they are not suffering from life threatening injuries so, of course, that's a positive note after what yesterday initially started off appearing like something that could have been much more tragic to this community here. the ohio state university community here in columbus. the police are and the fbi now, obviously, are investigating at his residence. and obviously, trying the find out what has been going on with this young man via the internet. yesterday, it was determined that he had posted a bit of a rant on facebook and but prior to coming over here and using a relative's car to jump the curb, run into these people and then come out brandishing a knife
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before he was shot dead by a campus police officer, but now today there is also another document that also seems to have been posted on facebook by this young man. one that talks about america saying america, get out of other countries and then makes reference to muslim countries, muslim communities. so clearly, he seems to have been upset about that sort of allegation. he then goes on to talk about reaching a boiling point and also suggesting lone wolf of attacks. well, of course, this is presumably what happened here yesterday. seeing that the authorities are now saying that he acted alone. but it also sort of falls into line with the things we have been seeing in other countries. in fact, including rather that people using their automobiles as weapons. >> all right. kevin tibbles, thank you very much. we'll check back with you after the news conference and expect
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to learn more just after 3:00 p.m. let's check back with the microsoft pulse question today. here it is. mitt romney is on donald trump's short list for secretary of state. so, is he a good choice? take a look for the results. 80% of you say, yes, he is. just 20% of you don't think so. interesting stuff. keep it coming. open for 90 minutes. in the meantime, we are taking a look at two big trials happening this hour in charleston. we're watching jury selection in federal court for dylann roof. and then an officer is taking a stand in his murder trial. we'll talk to chief legal correspondent about all of this next. ♪ ♪ ♪
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state of texas now looking at the first case of zika,
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probably spread by mosquitos there. the texas state health commissioner said in a statement only a matter of time before this happened. texas remember is just the second state after florida to report a local transmission of the virus, obviously, a concern for pregnant women or women hoping to be pregnant soon. in chicago, workers on strike gathering outside 0 hear. they're protesting for a pay raise to $15 an hour an they're not the only people in chicago with that goal. employees of northwestern memorial hospital and their supporters, check it out, marching through the city this morning in what they call the fight for 15. right now, we are in the middle of day two of jury selection in the charleston church shooting. dylann roof representing himself in this federal case. but interestingly, defense attorneys are still at the table with him. to help basically give him counsel, advice in the selection process and literally across the street, former police officer
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michael sleigher taken the defense of his shooting of a 50-year-old man who took off after a traffic stop. let's bring in chief legal correspondent ari melber to talk about both the trials. let's start with former patrolman michael shlager. talk about the advantages and disadvantages of him taking the stand. does he have to? >> we are seeing him take the stand in a case followed all over the country. caught on tape. you advise someone in this kind of trial not to take the stand. there's a lot of things to come out that can be adverse. >> could damage them? >> damage them. they get into a lot of details and the jury has reasons to try to, you know, look for reasonable doubt and the burden on the prosecution and that's the typical example. here he's done something different and i would say as an outsider probably the right call because you have something very unusual in any case of manslaughter or murder, video of
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the underlying killing. that's a product of the world we were in. this is a citizen created video and because you have what looks like the elements of an intentional killing, mr. scott running away, shot in the back. all of that on video. you have the desire here by the defense to have him tell his side of the story and that basically hinges on a claim that's not shown on the video, a claim that somehow mr. scott got the taser and made him fear for his life and the justification you need and not shown in the available evidence. >> were you -- if you were to be advising him, this is the right move? talk about this in your own voice? >> yes. because when the jurors see that video, they say, that looks like an intentional killing that was unnecessary. even though officers get extra benefit of the doubt and he's allowed to basically add evidence into that and try to humanize himself, trying to show he didn't have, you know, any kind of depraved heart or
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negative intentions. that's the arguments to make and he is always presumed innocent until proven guilty. >> talk about the dylann roof trial. a federal judge granted him the motion to basically represent himself and this is -- talking about facing the death penalty here. why would he want to do this? what's the trial strategy there? >> i'll be very clear. this is a bad idea. it is very difficult to represent yourself. even if you know what's going on. a lawyer representing themselves in a capital trial is like a doctor trying to perform surgery on themselves. the fact you know something isn't enough to pull it off. it's dangerous and then you have what you see in the cases and especially where there are belief or reports of mental instability. you have people who have no knowledge of the law and no ability necessary to make the right decision. he reached the decision. he had to basically argue for it in court yesterday. the judge was very clear saying, look, this is a bad idea. it makes it more likely you lose and it is your right and that goes to the other piece of this.
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this is an individual who has all but publicly confessed to the crimes. heinous mass murders. racism. just abhorrent and he is entitled to certain rights. one of those the right to represent himself if he chooses and found mentally competent and this judge said he was. >> and advice from the defense counsel at the table with him? >> that's what you were showing and the court paintings, they don't have cameras inside and we see he represents himself and the people next to him, lawyers there as advisers to help a little bit and now this is on him an i'll tell you in watching the case and a hate crime shocking the country, you will have the spectacle of him basically interviewing his own -- the families of his own victims according to his confessed crime. >> wow. ari, thank you very much for that perspective. appreciate it. we'll talk about politics and specifically about elaine chao. the wife of leader mcconnell and a source confirms to nbc news
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she will be joining donald trump's cabinet as transportation secretary. this is not her first time working for a white house. she served as labor secretary under a george w. bush. all of it by the way as president-elect trump continues to have rumors swirling all about the pick of secretary and state and set to meet with mitt romney for dinner by the way outside of trump tower tonight. joining me now is political editor and reporter and msnbc contributor sam stein. at the white house. on the north lawn today. hi, sam. >> how are you doing? >> let's talk about elaine chao an your thoughts on her as pick for secretary of transportation. when's the big takeaway about her selection? >> it is not exactly draining the swamp. >> right. >> she worked in department of transportation. mitch mcconnell's wife, obviously. it suggests an area donald trump wants to have legislative success. infrastructure bill has been on top of the priority list for a while now. exact details of it remain to be
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seen and talking about what he described as a trillion dollars potentially. certainly probably not that big but big and one way to get it done is work with congress to make sure that all the details are legislatively permissible and have the wife of the senate majority leader. so there is a lot of, you know, potential back room dealing here. and certainly elaine chao knows washington and how washington works. >> sam, you said something right at the beginning of your answer there about drain the swamp, right? >> yeah. >> so far the president-elect trump picked a non government person and what happened to that message? not seeing it play out yet? >> may have been just that. a message. in that when, you know, came time to actually fill the positions, staff up an administration, the universe of people able and capable of doing it is fairly limited. you can have insiders but they don't give you the knowledge and
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experience to get the mechanisms of government churning and running again and not surprised he's turned the people who have experience in washington or experience in politics or potentially experience on wall street. they tend to be the elites and tend to have a better insight and understanding and certainly better access i should say to the people who make the types of decisions. >> nine minutes ago the meeting between tennessee senator bob corker and president-elect trump supposed to begin. corker, of course, under consideration of secretary of state and so is a handful of other folks, as well. what is taking so long? about builting anticipation? sorting through and ask the questions and multiple meetings like with romney? >> sure. i think there's two factors here and you know probably better than i do inside trump world. i think part of it is that you have these duelling elements inside of his universe that likes some people. mitt romney, for instance. and that's part of it. but also one of the thing this
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is's fascinating is trump doesn't really have a necessarily coherent foreign policy ideology. he changes positions. one of the things that's defining is that he's never been the type of interventionist that's defined republican foreign policy e thos over a couple of decades and coming to secretary of state, it eels tough to find someone that's sort of melds with your world view and why you see giuliani and romney who are more interventionists, tougher on russia be floated for the position and it's causing some friction i guess. i have talked to a couple of lawmakers, democrats primarily, who are sort of harkened by the floating of the name david petraeus. they recognize that david petraeus with issues of his own handling of classified information saying that measure next to rudy giuliani and they feel more comfortable with that pick like that and factors weighing into it and causing a bit of a delay here. >> sam stein from washington, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me.
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>> sure thing. developing news of colombia on the overnight plane crash that killed 76 people, including members of a brazilian soccer team. what investigators are learning about what happened and how six people managed to survive the crash. later, donald trump raising eyebrows of flag burners losing citizenship. it's protected by the first amendment. should it be? we're going to hear about it in the daily baebt in a bit. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain...
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go long. tmom didn't want another dog. she said it's too much work. lulu's hair just floats. uhh help me! (doorbell) mom, check this out. wow. swiffer sweeper, and dusters. this is what i'm talking about. look at that. sticks to this better than it sticks to lulu. that's your hair lulu! mom, can we have another dog? (laughing) trap and lock up to 4x more dirt, dust and hair than the store brand stop cleaning. start swiffering. today is now the start of three days of mourning in brazil where officials are looking into a plane crash that killed 75. carrying the brazilian soccer team chapecoense going to brazil for the first continental finals game. tom cosell lo has more.
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tom, the emotion behind this, i mean, this was a -- you look at the soccer team. like a dream team. you look at the soccer community here. i mean, this is just devastating on a lot of levels. >> absolutely. now appears that all but three members were killed. they were on the way to a match in a championship series they called the fairytale team. the rest of the team along with the rest of the team i should say, journalists, managers, they all died in this horrific crash on this dense jungle hill top outside of colombia 10:00 last night. the charter flight from bolivia arriving and described as a torrential rainstorm making rescue extremely difficult. the daylight images show the impact zone. pieces just thrown across the landscape. in all, 81 people on board the plane. originally seven people found alive including the team's 31-year-old goalkeeper.
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marcus danilo and reportedly called his wife from the hospital before passing away. another player, 31-year-old defend elio found alive but skull and chest injuries and a defender with very serious spine injuries and another goalkeeper, jackson ragnar fullman. they're all in area hospitals, some with surgery. the plane was a regional jet, a british aerospace 146 an see it commonly in europe as a city hopper plane and the pilot said he was having trouble -- electrical trouble on board and a surviving flight attendant thought they may have run out of fuel. the team was supposed to take a direct flight but the flight cancel sod they had to take a charter flight and go through bolivia. as you mentioned, this was really a dream team. two years ago, nobody believed they would go anywhere but they were headed to the first leg of a final series in the important
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south american club competition. that play now suspended and, in fact, the president -- rather, the colombian team they were going to play has now asked that they forfeit that game and award the competition to this chapecoense team from brazil and almost all of them gone now in the horrific plane crash. back to you. >> tom, from washington, thank you. up next, it is the tweet that's ignited a firestorm tomorrow. president-elect trump suggesting americans that burn the flag should lose their citizenship. the supreme court says it's a valid form of free speech but should flag burning be punishable by law? we are posing that question to the members of our daily debate up next. bill assumed it was a costume party. bill assumed his mayo was the best choice. assume nothing. unlike hellmann's,
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the arguments about banning flag-burning with a single tweet today. quote, nobody should be allowed to burn the american flag, he says, and if they do, there must be consequences. perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail. a lot of folks seeing this, upset about the idea, upset about the penalties, but if donald trump can win the presidency, what are the odds of a flag-burning amendment come up? we'll talk about this now, liz smith, democratic strategist and former deputy campaign manager for martin o'malley. thank you for being with us on our daily debate. steve, let me start with you here. speaking about this proposition, if you will, from the president-elect that flag-burning should be illegal and anybody who does it should have their citizenship stripped. are you comfortable with that from somebody that you backed all during the campaign? >> no, hallie. it never came up, that i know of, during the campaign. i would mildly disagree with my
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candidate here. i think we have -- soon-to-be my president. i think we have much bigger fish to fry when this comes to the growth and security of the united states, the first amendment i'm pretty ab absolutist, libertarian. i think donald trump is touching on something important, which is, a lot of tradition-minded americans have felt condescended to for years by political elites, media elites. those of us who live and fly over country, who honor and might tear up at the american flag, people who go to football games on friday night and church on sunday morning, we feel like we've been ignored and disrespected for a very long time. i think this tweet is symptomatic of that. i don't think we need new laws but we need a culture of respect for patriotism for our sflag. >> i want to eat some crow because last time we were on here today i said there was no way donald trump would win, and you were right. >> very kind, thank you. >> a daily debate first, by the way. >> yes. to your point, this isn't about
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the ee leastists being elite. this is about the president-elect undermining, once again, our first amendment rights. it's a troubling pattern on his part. he said he would black list reporters who write unfavorable things about him, that he would ban muslims from traveling here based on their religion. and now he's saying people who exercise their constitutionally protected rights could have their citizenship revoked. the only crime for which you can have your citizenship revoked is treason. he is de facto equating burning a flag with treason. think about the broader message this sends. he's not just a random citizen anymore. when you're the president-elect, when you're president, every statement you make is seen as official policy. he's sending a message to people across our country, more troubling, to people across the globe, that we will not stand up for the right for people to hold different opinions, the right to
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political dissent. that puts our country in the same league as china, russia and north korea. >> let me jump in here. the lines are not blue and red here. there's that 2006 amendment which fell one shy of going up, that got 14 democratic votes, including harry reid, dianne feinstein, hillary clinton co-signing the statute. does that undercut some of your argument? >> i think it's disgraceful that democrats did it back then. my guess would be if hillary clinton, who was widely chris sized and seen as a pandering move, my bet is if she had a chance to go back or change her sponsorship of that, she would do that. i'm not going to defend that. i think it was completely antithetical to what we stand for in a democratic society that promotes free speech. i don't even know if it's relevant here. we're talking about the president-elect and the
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president-elect doesn't respect first amendment rights. >> i think we both agree we shouldn't have a new law or alter the constitution in this case. i think it's also important, i don't think it's fair for you to broaden it and try to say the president-elect is somehow impinging on people's rights to free speech. that's not the case at all. by the way, burning a flag isn't speech. again, i don't want new laws. those around words. the president-elect has said nothing and proposed nothing that would dilute the first amendment. in anything, i think one of the reasons he got support from a lot of people like me is he really wants to uphold the first amendment, particularly when it comes to religious liberty. the first amendment has been under assault for the past eight years when it comes to religious liberty. i think he's a great proponent and defender of the first amendment in its totality and he will always acknowledge, of course, the right of anyone to hold opinions or to use words in any way they deem permissible or any way they deem effective. >> but this is a problem. it is protected as speech under the first amendment. two, even if it's just in a
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tweet, that is an official pronouncement when you are the president-elect or president. he needs to choose his words more carefully. he's not just a private citizen anymore. you know, throwing out random, incendiary tweets. >> liz smith gets the last word this time. thank you for joining us on today's daily debate. a lot more ahead on msnbc. first today we're putting the spotlight on giving tuesday. the global celebration of giving back. msnbc is part of the movement. we hope you are paying it forward, too. show off your hashtag unselfie side using #givingtuesday. head to or snap chat where i will be sharing my giving tuesday thoughts. i was working in the yard, my chest started hurting
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s ? 85% of you say yes up from 80% earlier this hour. just 15% say no. the pulse will be open for the next hour. get on and let us know what you think. thank you for hanging out this hour on msnbc live. lots of ground covered and more to come with my colleague thomas roberts here at 30 rock. >> great question, too, because guess who's coming to dinner tonight with donald trump? mitt romney. we'll get down to that and lots more. fast-moving developments starting with two new trump cabinet picks today. a new transportation secretary nominee and obamacare's chief capitol hill critic chosen to lead health and human services. this as the president-elect sets off near twitter firestorm. then we go to breaking news out of tennessee. a mass exodus as wildfire force mandatory evacuations in gatlinburg and dramatic video with residents to flee with minutes to spare. plus, a plane carrying what's being called a dream


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