tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 2, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
when confronted with these offenses do more than say ouch and forget about it. that's "hardball" for now, for friday, december 2nd, 2016. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i don't want to tell you this. >> billionaires, right wing nationalists and now generals. >> we are going to appoint mad dog mattis as our secretary of defense. >> tonight rachel maddow on the one massive catch in trump's pick for secretary of defense. and the insane implications of trump throwing 40 years of u.s. foreign policy overboard with one phone call to taiwan. the hypocrisy would be really funny if it wasn't so sad. >> bernie sanders on stocking trump's cabinet. and team trump embracing the
post truth era. >> there's no such thing unfortunately more on fact. >> and then they played my statement, and i said, carrier will never leave. but that was a euphemism. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, in 49 days, donald trump will become president of these united states. trump broke with 37 years of u.s. policy, holding a phone call that could lead to a massive diplomatic dispute with nuclear armed china. rachel maddow will be here to discuss that. trump announcing a crucial cabinet pick. comes with a massive catch. trump tapping for defense secretary james "mad dog" mattis. >> they say he's the closest
thing to general george patton that we have, and it's about time. it's about time. >> as the nickname mad dog who imply, he's an extremely colorful character, famous for giving marines like this, be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. in 2005, msnbc news reported on mattis, how he finds it fun to shoot people. >> you have to understand -- guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway, so it's fun to shoot them. >> mattis i the closest thing america has to a tough talking hollywood general. he was featured in "generation kill." >> godfather. >> hold your marines back for now. he's [ bleep ] unfit to present himself. >> trump says he doesn't have
time to read much. mattis is an avid reader of military history, considers reading to be a crucial tool for the battlefield. >> you stay teachable most by reading books, by reading what other people went through. i can't tell you the number of times i looked down at what was going on on the ground or i was engaged in a fight somewhere, and i knew within a couple minutes how i was going to screw up the enemy. i knew it, because i had done so much reading, i knew what i was going to do, i have seen other similar situations in the reading. >> mattis' leadership was cut short in 2013, due in part to his hawkish stance on iran. crucially, mattis has said there is no going back on the iran nuclear deal that trump has pledged to dismantle. in addition, he's a staunch critic of vladimir putin who trump praised on the campaign
trail. mattis sought to talk trump out of the illegal torture technique, known as waterboarding, which trump has vowed to bring back, along with "a hell of a lot worse." >> i met with him at length and i asked him that question. i said, what do you think of waterboarding? he said, i was surprised, i've never found it to be useful. he said, i've always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple beers, i do better with that than i do with torture. >> that's some encouraging news about mattis. there is a massive catch. mattis can only become secretary of defense if congress changes a law to protect the idea of liberal democracy. a person may not be appointed as secretary of defense within 7 years after relief from active duty of an armed force. he retired in 2013. which means he was on duty less
than four years ago. the only other time that happened was in 1950, when harry truman nominated general george marshall for the position. at the time, congress said it was the sense of lawmakers that no additional appointments should be approved. and they had a good reason for that. it's a core idea in the rule of democracy, that the democracy be subordinate to military rule. imagine how this would look to us if it were another country, a populous nationalist candidate, wins the vote and has the law changed so he can oversee a military meant to be under civilian control. fears of what that could lead to prompted kir step gillibrand saying she would oppose a waiver for mattis. i will not vote for an exception
of this. joining me now is rachel maddow. i feel personally, i'm impressed by a lot of things people say about mattis, and also, persuaded a bit about the core reason that we have this. >> right. and it's not -- it's a hard and fast principle, the way the rule has been applied, there was a 10-year rule, and they made that exception for george marshall, now it's a seven year rule. he's been out for 2013. it's not like he's coming direct from the military. that's an interesting part of it. the thing that i most want, i would like to hear donald trump alone without anybody else to help him. i would like to hear from him why he believes it is important to have civilian control of the military. i want to know if he understands what's at cost. >> what's at breach -- >> what's the cost of doing this? >> that's a great point. what unnerves me a little bit. this will be the first thing that happens, where it's like,
we're bending the rules for donald trump. >> exactly. >> we have this norm, and we have this thing, but we control all of congress, and donald trump wants this guy, and a lot of people who do not like donald trump are a little relieved. okay, we'll bend this here. >> democrats are in an interesting position, if democrats stood unified on this, they could deny this waiver to mattis. there are enough democrats to stop this from happening. they could keep it from happening. that said, mattis is by far not the most controversial person that trump is appointing. if this were an equivalent of the jeff sessions nomination. somebody who was manifestly inappropriate for the job that donald trump was putting this person up for. i think you'd see democrats line up behind this right away. i don't think they're going to oppose mattis substantively. it's a question of whether they're going to get behind this principal. i would love to hear democrats fight about this. >> an articulation of what the stakes are.
>> i would love to hear democrats talk about why it's important that we don't have the military as a potential source of a hunta in this country. and why we don't, i believe that the founders really structurally disinclined us toward war when they set up this country. part of that was giving the military to a civilian leader who could use then the military as one of -- only one of the tools that he or she had for solving the nation's problems. if the military is hived off from that decision process, then every problem looks like a nail, and that hammer is all well suited for every one of them. >> since we're talking about military solutions, i want to also talk about the possibly slow moving diplomatic crisis that was initiated today? >> a new war with china? >> yeah, so, okay, we have -- china has a one china policy, in which they don't recognize taiwan. the u.s. also does not recognize taiwan, although we sell them weapons there's this weird wink,
wink, nudge, nudge. we have not talked directly with the chinese leader in 37 years, and we found out today, in the middle of the afternoon. oh, yeah, donald trump statalkeo the elected president of taiwan. which is a huge, huge, huge, huge change in the posture of american diplomacy. >> and there's a couple ways to see this, and i honestly don't know which one is scarier. i'm going to have chris murphy on my show later on. he's very johnny on the spot on this right away. either donald trump has no idea what a big deal it is that he just called the president of taiwan, and that's because he just -- you know, hither and thither called the president of taiwan, or someone else who recognizes he doesn't understand the implications of it, used him as a vessel and got him to do this. talked him into it. those ideas are very scary, that he unwittingly did this.
the other possibility is that he willingly did this. he knew this was going to be one of the biggest changes in american foreign policy since you and i have been alive. he wanted to do it as a surprise to everyone with no warning, with no support, no notice to either the state department or the white house. >> they're not talking to the state department, they're not taking as far as we can tell, we don't know if these phone calls are happening on secured lines. we don't know if -- >> if his kids are in on it? >> we should note -- he tweeted the president of taiwan called me all caps today. to wish me congratulations on winning the presidency. we should note, the u.s. officially doesn't even say the government of taiwan. it says the government on taiwan. is how carefully. people could watch this and be like this is ridiculous, on a certain level it 1. it's the kind of ridiculousness that keeps wars from happening, frankly. it's the kind of wink, wink,
nudge, nudge. we should also say this, the taiwanese press reports that the phone call was originated by him. >> i am resistant as a person to personality driven analysis of different foreign leaders and american leaders. i just don't buy it, one thing i have to say i'm worried about is, if donald trump doesn't have preferences, knowledge or curiosity about a lot of person things, there will be people around him who do. who use him as a vehicle to accomplish stuff that he may not even understand the magnitude of while he's doing it. >> this feels like the first thing since he's been president-elect. even him just saying that the president of taiwan called me, like that changes at all the fact that he's hoping the president of taiwan -- >> what's the big deal. >> if he doesn't get it and other people around him do, john bolton was at trump tower today. there's a reason he was never confirmed even under george w. bush. he was too radical and unstable
to hold a position of power. he has not been nominated to anything by donald trump. if by being around the transition, he's just caused the most powerful rift around us, we have a structural problem with the ignorance of the president-elect that's not going to get better when this is cleaned up. >> you hope they're going to start talking to people. at state, and we should say also, the white house needs to walk this back. there is a o president at a time rule for a reason. so that you don't have situations like this, in which the president-elect is conducting foreign policy that is directly correctly to the president of the united states. >> not only did the white house have no heads up about this, the state department not only didn't brief about this, the united states in terms of our foreign policy has just been compromised. now we have taken two public substances on something that is honestly -- i'm not overstating
it, one of the most radical shifts in foreign policy in a generation, nobody had any warning, nobody is ready to start to clean this up. and nobody knows what the implications of it are going to be on ongoing stuff we have under discussion with china. literally today while obama is supposed to be the president. >> rachel maddow, it's great to have you, i'm going to watch your show, and i'm -- chris murphy was tweeting today, and is a singularly level headed voice on foreign policy. >> he's the new voice of the democratic party on foreign policy. he's north -- i would call him centrist and moderate, while -- on those issues, with a progressive heart, and he's been very smart on this issue, very -- i think reserved and i really want to hear what he has to say about it ton. >> i do too. still to come, donald trump admits he was surprised, people took a campaign promise at his word. a trump surrogate says, there's no such thing as facts, literally said that. more from my exclusive interviews on bernie sanders,
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i'm not going to let wall street get away with murder. they've caused tremendous problems for us. we're going to tax wall street, we're going to get rid of certain things they should have. i've been talking about it very strongly. certain things they want, and they want them badly, it's not fair to give it to them. >> candidate trump criticized wall street. but president-elect trump just picked a wall street executive for one of the most powerful positions in his cabinet. he spent 17 years at goldman sachs. senator bernie sanders had plenty to say about that, when i had the chance to ask him about trump's cabinet picks. senator, we're starting to see the cabinet come together, and you have betsy davos, who's worth about $5 billion. wilbur ross, worth about $3 billion.
todd rickets. >> only $40 million? and he got into the cabinet. i'm quite shocked at poor people being able to get into the cabinet. >> it's pretty remarkable. i mean, this is pretty unprecedented, this plutocratic titans being named to these positions. >> what's more -- we're in trump world right now. what you said during the campaign. you said that we are going to not cut social security, medicare and medicaid. and then you appoint the congressman price the head of hhs, who has made his life's work cutting medicare. you're going to be tough on wall street, then you appoint a wall
street insider to be secretary of the treasury. you talk about being tough on the establishment. we're going to take on the whole establishment, and you appoint the entire establishment to your cabinet. the hypocrisy would be really furnitureny if it wasn't so sad in terms of the implications of what it means for working people in this country. >> steve mnuchin was at goldman sachs. he bought a distressed property, renamed it and foreclosed on a lot of people. which i suppose is one's right in the world of american financial capitalism. what would you like to hear -- would you like to hear him explain himself in those confirmation hearings? >> i think there will be some members of the senate who will demand that he explain himself. trump talked about, as you'll remember, chris, re-establishing glass steigel, holding wall street accountable. we are going to demand that this nominee explain to us exactly
how he intends to do that. but the hypocrisy of what trump said during the campaign and the kind of appointments he's making now is really quite laughable. >> do you see this -- i mean, i -- i've been talking to people, sources of mine, i've reported on finance for a while, and i know people on wall street, i mean, there's this kind of -- people sort of looking around and saying, this is looking pretty awesome. we weren't quite sure, but there's a sort of mood -- i mean, you see it on business networks, you hear it from folks on wall street. like the -- good times -- good times are here. >> they're catching on to what mitt romney said a kwil back in describing mr. trump. he said, donald trump is a fraud, and a phony. and now i think the folks on wall street and in corporate america are giving a sigh of relief, because it turned out to be true. forget about everything he said
during the campaign. how he's going to take on the establishment. he's going to reward his billionaire friends and middle class and working class of this country is in for some very very rough times. >> how do you -- >> when you set it against the backdrop of this carrier -- sort of victory tour, right? how -- are you confident that you can communicate the reality of what's actually going to happen if people are getting medicaid cuts, if medicare's being privatized. if the corporate tax rate goes don to 15%. can you communicate the reality through the spectacle? >> well, this is why we need to radically reform the democratic party. because i would say that yesterday the democratic party would be unable to do that. because they're grassroots approach was negligible. what we have to do now is create a strong grassroots movement, which is why i'm supporting keith ellison to be chair of the
democratic party. the american people have to know that right now, medicare is in danger. they want to privatize medicare, workers have got to know that despite all of trump's rhetoric about raising the minimum wage or standing up to corporate america in terms of outsourcing, that was just campaign nonsense, he's not going to do that. so we have got to rally many, many millions of people to tell mr. trump that we are going to hold him accountable. he's not going to get away with double crossing the middle class of this country. >> all right, senator bernie sanders of vermont, thanks for your time tonight, appreciate it. thank you. coming up we'll talk to a woman who voted for trump, because she thought he'd do something about the moneyed interest. turns out trump's appointee ran a bank that foreclosed on her home.
what i've really been focused on is being a roaming nall banker for the last eight years. i know we have what it takes to make loans to small and large bismarck ets. we make sure the banks are lending. >> treasury secretary nominee has zero public policy experience, but when asked about his credentials this week, he tauted his experience running a bank. that bank indymac was the second largest failure behind washington mutual. he bought it, while executed 40 million foreclosures. that same year, a florida resident who had taken a reverse
mortgage, the company foreclosed on her after a 27 cent error. another woman, was stripped of her two homes, one which she rented as a source of income. joining me now, is tina colebrook. miss colebrook, can you tell me, did you -- when you went through the foreclosure were you familiar with the bank and who was running the bank? >> yes, i was. >> did you know who mnuchin was? >> yes, i did. >> did you develop a feeling about how you were treated by the bank during that process? >> appalling, like most -- all of us were. it was just one flat out lie after another. we weren't treated like people. we were just a number to them, who they wanted to foreclose on in every which way they could.
they just would not work with any of us after false promises, after leading us into foreclosure, saying that we had to be three months behind in our mortgage payment before they would -- >> thousands if not tens of hundreds of thousands, millions of people were told by banks that you had to be late on payments so that you could qualify for loan modification, and then once you went late on a payment, they foreclosed on you? >> they foreclosed on us, added hundreds of thousands in fees. illegal fees. they had sloppy accounting. the amount they stated i owed varied in three months by 130,000 in three months. >> let me ask you this, you voted for donald trump. tell me what drew you to him, why you voted for him. >> like many of the people i'm in touch with, who were foreclosed on by mnuchin, we
voted for trump because we were fed up, like most of america with the politics as it is, we're fed up with the government, and all those elected officials who were elected to serve the people, but they really only are serving themselves. they vote in special compensation for themselves, everything. they're not really working for us. it's all lip service, and we believed is trump would be an outsider for the first time who would work for the people like his campaign promised. he said he would -- my only special interest is to you the american people. not major donors, the party or corporations. now we want him to prove it. he said he was going to drain the swamp. now he's filling it with alligators like mnuchin. we want him to prove he will drain the swamped. >> what was your reaction having voted for him and having gone through this with mnuchin. when you saw the news, what was
your reaction? >> i was sick, disgusted. i talked to a lot of other people the same way, they just couldn't believe that he would hire someone who's known as a foreclosure king, who's committed so much forgery, fraud on the people -- you know, the working class people, he's foreclosed on far more than 40,000 homes. and he labels us vixacious litigants. even the press has labelled us deadbeats, we're not. i talked to a vice president of a bank they foreclosed on and stole over $4 million in equity. i talked to lawyers, doctors, dentists, all taken in. if a banker can be foreclosed on by a bank, that's incredible and disgusting. >> do you feel like you were played? do you feel like you were
hoodwinked? >> i think yes in some instances. i understand that he's got to bring in a good team. but this one? there's plenty of qualified people out there who are not wall street insiders who are not billionaires, that were made billionaires off the backs of the working class people. the alternative wasn't great either, and there's no way i would have voted the other way for hillary, but mr. trump needs to follow through on his campaign promises and prove to the american people that what he said he will follow through on. no billionaire insiders and no goldman sachs people, this is wrong 37 we're angry, and we're watching him. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up, a lone juror says he cannot convict the former police officer facing charges for the shooting death of walter scott. the latest on the apparently deadlocked jury after this
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you the case gained nationwide attention showing is layinger shooting scott from behind as scott ran away. the jury watched the tape during the trial and we're going to show you the key part now. the first time we aired it since it originally went public. be warned, the video is disturbing. [ gunfire ] >> the jury has asked for more time to deliberate and will reconvene monday morning at 9:00 a.m. >> it's been a long day. it's been a tough day, it's not ov over. and we do believe within our
heart that we will see justice for my brother. >> i'm joined now by paul butler, i guess -- let me start with this. i never heard of a juror writing a letter saying they can't in good conscience vote gore a guilty verdict. >> i've never heard of a lone juror communicating with the court. that's the work of the foreperson of the jury. when we think about the evidence in this case we have a video of a man running away from the officer, the officer shoots him in the back. and then says it was self-defense. that's not plausible. which is why 11 jurors, 10 of whom we need to note are white. one african-american say there's no reasonable doubt. what should happen? they're having a conversation. it's not about your conscience, it's about the law. >> it was a really compelling moment in the courtroom earlier
today, they all convened, they came back -- and the law in south carolina is that the judge can't send them back a third time, he can send them back twice. i don't think they can send them back a fourth time. clearly they think they're able to convince this person who has communicated they're unconvincible. >> maybe they can. mad propses to these jurors. no lawyer wants to have a jury out on friday night. what they say is, let's just decide this case. you know what, in our system, 12 people have to agree, we think that's still possible. and statistically, it is. we have this myth about one angry man holding up a jury. that's very, very rare. the jury system is one of the shiny parts of our democracy. there's something about these 12 people coming together, it may take a while. often they reach a unanimous verdict. >> that's interesting here, you say that. i also have to say folks
watching this, who have been following police and police shootings of civilians there's a broad spectrum of these cases, some of which, we really don't know what happened. some of which, we can understand why a police officer would be terrified, and then at the furthest end of the spectrum, all the cases i've covered is this case. we have video evidence of the officer shooting a man. and then apparently trying to plant evidence afterwards, what does it say to you that this is not -- that we're at this point of the possibility of a hung jury? >> if prosecutors can't get a conviction in this case. on tape, from 18 feet. no plausible defense, when will an officer be brought to justice. this is as close as it gets to a slam dunk.
>> what happens when the president elect doesn't always mean what he says. there's no such thing as facts any more. a super secret surprise visitor at trump tower today. we'll explain, thing one and thing two next. g new cars. you're smart. you already knew that. but it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. now you're even smarter. this is truecar.
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thing one tonight, an unexpected appearance from governor chris christie at trump tower today. still no word on exactly what he was doing there, considering ever since he was booted as chair of donald trump's transition team, and it looked like he would not be in the running for a cabinet post. he had embarked on a campaign of sorts to let new jerseyians know he is absolutely fully committed to them. >> i have no reason to believe as we stand here today, that i will do anything other than
serve out my full term as governor. >> i have said to the president-elect, reminded him that i have 14 months left in my term, and it's my desire to finish my term. >> in a press conference on tuesday, christie hammered home his decision to focus on the attention of the state where he presides as governor. >> i want to tell you, i have said and for some reasonable, people think i'm equivocal about this, and i'm not. >> i am completing my term. everybody take a deep breath. i have told you all from the beginning that it was my intention to serve my entire term. i told you that after i got out of the presidential race. that was the job i really want ed after this one, that was not made available to me by the voters of iowa and new hampshire i came back to work and i've been at work ever since.
>> just days after that press conference. surprise, it looks like chris christie's just found another job he wants. and that's thing two in 60 seconds. a dry mouth can cause cavities and bad breath. over 400 medications can cause a dry mouth. that's why there's biotene. biotene can provide soothing dry mouth relief. and it keeps your mouth refreshed too. remember while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't. biotene, for people who suffer from dry mouth symptoms.
earlier this week, chris christie told his constituents he would be serving on his full term. he'll be back at work in jersey, until january 2018. can you guess what happened less than 48 hours later? christie throws his halt in the ring for rnc chair. one person said the governor had embarked on an aggressive full court press. if christie were to be picked, he could continue to serve as new jersey governor. what would it mean for his day job. the the first full year. he spent a third of the year out of the state. in 2015, christie spent 190 full
days not in jurjz. and if you count partial days, that jumps to 72% of the year outside his state. that's something he's unlikely to change. it almost seems like christie is willing to do anything to avoid his own state. and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis.
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as far as the issue on climate change, the only thing he was saying is after being asked a few questions about it, look, i'll have an open mind about it, he has his default position, which is that most of it is a bunch of bunk. but he'll have an open mind and listen to people. >> incoming white house chief of staff last week clarifying what our incoming president's position is on climate change. most of it is, it's bunk. the hottest in 36 years of data keeping, nowhere is warming faster than the arctic. it's warming twice as fast as the rest of the planet. this year, the temperatures in
the arctic are off the charts. according to the models. here's what the average arctic temperature looked like in 2004. now, here's what it looked like in 2008. you see it creeping away from the average. here's what it looked like in 2012, and here's what it looks like in 2016. temperatures appear to be way above the average. arctic getting warmer instead of colder in october and november. just two weeks ago, the north pole was 36 degrees warmer than normal. it's so warm that right now the sea ice is at a record low. the area of ocean with at least 15% sea ice from 1979 through 2015. here's what it looks like this year. ready for it? the ice levels are meant to steadily rise as winter arises, it's been rising, stalling, even plateauing through the fall.
ice that's existed for four years is on the decline. the difference between 1984 and 2016 is stark. images like this, data like this is how we try to understand what is happening on the planet and what is happening as the climate changes. the same agency that made those images is in the crosshairs of the president-elect. we see nasa in an exploration role and deep space research. earth centric sciences in better areas where it is their prime mission. nasa would be better exploring other planets. more than our planet, what does data matter when you think climate change is a bunch of bunk?
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we seem to be entering a new era in american politics. claiming last night that people from the middle east are currently pouring into the u.s. tweeting recently that millions voted illegally in the presidential election. both of those claims are false, which is to say not factual. in an interview on npr wednesday. scotty nell hughes laid out the principle i've heard to date. >> one thing that's been interesting, is that people that say facts are facts, they're not
really facts. everybody has a way. it's like looking at ratings, everyone has a way to interpret them of being the truth or not true. there's no such thing unfortunately any more of facts. >> we got a different version of thesis from cory luan dow ski. he insisted the media's at fault for insisting trump knows what he's talking about. >> you guys took what trump said so literally. the american people didn't, they understood that sometimes when you have a conversation with people, whether it's around the dinner table or it's at the bar or it's wherever it is. you have to say something and maybe you don't have all the facts to back that up, that's how the american people live. >> trump appears to hold a similarly open ended view of the things he himself says. it wasn't until he saw a guy on
the news who is taking seriously his pledge to keep carrier jobs in the u.s., that trump decided he meant it. >> they had a gentleman worker, great guy. handsome guy, he was on. and it was like he didn't even know they were leaving. he said, something to the effect, no, we're not leaving, because donald trump promised us that we're not leaving. and i never thought i made that promise. i'm saying to myself, man. and then they played my statement. and i said, carrier will never leave. but that was a euphemism. i was talking about carrier like all other companies from here on in. they made the decision a year and a half ago. now, because of him, whoever that guy was, is he in the room by any chance? >> that's my son. >> that's your son, stand up. >> joining me now, former chief
columnist let me start with you, today we got a bunch of economic news and -- >> facts. >> facts, right. i think there's -- there was always this sense the obama administration had, what is that reality will out. if the economy performs and people get back to work, if manufacturing jobs increase from where they were at the lowest point as they have in in the state of indiana, that will ultimately be what controls. it's not clear they were right about that. >> yes, the unemployment rate hit 4.6%. that's a nine year low. donald trump during the campaign said the unemployment rate was 40%. so, you know, i got to say, what cory luan dow ski was just saying actually is worth listening to and parsing a bit. some of what donald trump says when he lies is actually his his version of a truth that is
incorrect. but b, resonates with people in a way that's worth appreciating. the unemployment rate is below 5%. a lot of people feel like they face a very tough economy. and in fact they do. where they are, the unemployment rate could easily be twice that. it is twice that for many minorities. one type of donald trump's lies are actually him sort of communicating a sentiment with people that we would do well to listen to. the problem is there's a set of policy lies, and they are ultimately not going to work for him. i predict. >> when donald trump says, i can get rid of the affordable care act and your health care will be better and cheaper, and you'll have more affordable coverage or we can voucherize medicaid. we can voucherize medicare. turn medicaid into a block grant and it's going to be great, it's going to be much better for you, if that's the path they go down. those falsehoods will come back and stair them right in the face, because now you're really
hurting a lot of people. and the media's going to have to do its job to find these people and put cameras in front of them. >> sabrina, the interesting thing about what lewandowski said, you get the impression, he says a lot of stuff, and maybe some of it doesn't check out with your fact checkers. he won the election and in some weird way, it makes right. that stuff is true because he won. >> well, look, i think that we are going to need accountability journalism now more than we have before. the media is going to have to take measures 37 you have to learn some lessons with the past campaign. it starts with doing some introspection, about where we could have done better. you have with donald trump, someone who for the first year of his candidacy, benefited from $2 billion in earned media, his rallies were played unfiltered.
you had surrogates who were able to make air time and made baseless claims. yes, they were challenged, but the fact that they were without any credentials other than supporting donald trump, there were people watching at home, thinking, that trump surrogate makes some good points. there may be headlines that have to be published now that are donald trump falsely claims x. i think we have to be willing to do that -- >> there was a lot of that in the last few months of the campaign, it's hard to see what good it did. >> it was a little too little too late, you could argue. it was baked in he built the idea that the media's not to be trusted. perhaps if there was more accountability drills from the beginning. when you're talking about someone who ran a 17 month campaign. the last few months, you could argue it was too little too
late. >> it was important to see, the banner headline on the times that trump's accusation about the voter fraud was in the headline portrayed as a lie. that actually was a pretty important barrier that they crossed there, and i -- we need to see more of that. >> let me ask you this question, jared. i keep thinking about a world in which millions of people get kicked off the affordable care act. do they believe that's because -- is there a world in which that happens and they still think that's because barack obama screwed them? >> not if we do our job. me as a policy analyst, and folks in your seats as well. and -- the likelihood of that being obama's problem in my view is very low. the president gets blamed and gets credit for a lot of things. and let me say, once obama leaves the room, and these guys start voucherizing, privatizing medicare, block granting medicaid and get and repealing
the aca. believe me, there's no way that you're going to be able to make that -- they're going to try to make that obama's problem, i don't see how they do. >> thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> thank you. that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> thanks, chris. thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. so world war ii ended in 1945. five years later the civil war ended in china. and in that civil war, the communist side won. and it was a terrible war and it was a messy ending. but in the end what we ended up with was china run ruthlessly by the communists under chairman mao. and here at home for 30 years after that, we refuse to recognize that commu