tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC December 5, 2016 6:00am-7:01am PST
on want to attach something negative immediately. >> as harold said, the carrier story is a great example. it's something we need to look at and analyze it. we may be talking about something new. i understand why economic conservatives, libertarians would be very angered by this move but for the press to be reporting it the way it is and bending over backwards to talk about how this is the worst thing that ever happened, they need to look at the steven pearlstein column in "the washington post." >> it's a new world. >> just think. be open minded and see. >> by the way, vice president elect mike pence will be our guest tomorrow morning. and that does it for us this morning on "morning joe." ali velshi picks up the coverage right now. >> with no negativity. i'll keep open minded. i'm ali velshi in for stephanie
ruhle. >> a devastating fire in oakland. survivors are speaking out. >> i woke up in my room, it was filled with smoke. >> just a fog of smoke. i looked over, i could see an orange glow coming through the window. >> now the search for answers. >> our district attorney did activate a criminal investigation. that team is on the site. >> officials set to give an update any minute. we will bring that to you live. breaking this morning, ben carson named secretary of housing and urban development amid questions about his kwa qualificatio qualifications. and this as a search for secretary of state expands. form were utah governor jon huntsman now in the mix. taking on china after a precedent-smashing phone call to the leader of taiwan, donald trump now going after china on twitter. is there a diplomatic strategy at play? and victory.
protesters and nate of americans celebrating this morning after the army corps of engineers refuses to allow a pipeline through native lands. but the protesters saying they're not leaving, defying the deadline set today. we begin out west where a news conference is scheduled to begin any moment on that horrific warehouse fire in oakland, california. 33 people are confirmed dead. officials say that number could rise. eight of those victims have been identified. no word yet on what sparked the fire but officials have called in a criminal investigation team as they search through the ashes and debris for more victims. >> we have people around the clock and we will be here for days and days to come. >> nbc's steve patterson is live in oakland. what are we expecting to hear from officials that the news conference we're waiting for? >> ali, the first thing that has
to be talked about at the press conference is the breaking news, we just got a text message from the fire battalion chief. they are now confirming there is a work stoppage at the site, that they're going to stop clearing out some of the debris that's in that warehouse, that the teams are going to be pulled back because the warehouse right now is just too structurally unsound -- >> steve, i've got to stop you. the press conference is beginning. we'll be back to you. >> last friday, december 2nd at about 11:32 p.m., a fire broke out in the warehouse at about 2:30 a.m. in oakland. last evening the victim loss was 33. that's 33 families who have lost a loved one, that's 33 of our loved ones who here in the city of oakland we have lost as a
community. this morning we'd like to update you regarding additional information regarding our losses, not only to families but to our community. we have deputy sheriff modest, who is going to provide you additional information regarding victims lost and families that have been notified. we also have battalion chief drayton who will be able to update you regarding the work that the fire department has done along with other agencies who have been assisting. i'd like to turn it over to deputy modest. thank you. >> good morning. my nay is tya modest. since our last update, we have located and recovered 36 victims. >> reporter: can you speak up, please?
>> yes. since our last update, we have located and recovered 36 victims. of the 36, 11 have been positively identified and their family members have been appropriately notified. that number is inclusive of the eight that was given last night. at this time we won't be updating this morning the list of names of the located and identified victims. we are giving the family members an opportunity to update other family members, to notify them and give them an opportunity to grieve together before we release those additional names. >> good morning once again. can you hear me? the fire department last night at approximately 10:00 was asked
by atf and our local investigators to stop our recovery work in the back of the building based on the fact that we now feel very strongly that we have the section of the building that was the area of origin of where the fire started. the investigators will be here in just a few hours to start building out their team and really getting deeper into that area of the building. again, it's the back of the building. so when we enter and go straight back to the back wall, center of the building, we've got a square footage area that has been quarantined off for additional investigation. and just after midnight we had some crews doing some surveilling and reconnaissance on the next door roof and noticed a slight lean in the parapit on the a side of the building the front of the warehouse at the very top of the exterior wall we have about a
three-inch lean going into the center of the building. for us as firefighters working under a wobbly, potentially collapsing exterior wall is extremely dangerous. we will not put our firefighters in danger at this point and we will not put almeida county sheriff in that precarious situation with us. so we did a full work stoppage at approximately 12:18 last night and have not been continuing with body recovery since. all of the structural engineers and contract workers will be here at approximately 8 a.m. to develop a game plan. we hope that we'll be back in the building between 12:00 and 2:00 today to continue the recovery effort. >> we know you'll have some questions. we'll go ahead and start over here and work our way to the left. >> can you describe what a
parapit is? >> at the top of the exterior building, if you imagine where the roof meets the wall, there's about a five-foot unreinforced section of the exterior wall. it's leaning in three inches. it should be straight. we're concerned that that unreinforced area potentially could collapse. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> absolutely. at this point we are using the number 70% as the area of the building that we have searched and efficiently and effectively done recovery on. again, the small area in the back for the area of origin and the front area based on the safety concerned has not been searched yet. >> reporter: do you believe that there's still more victims? [ inaudible ]. >> we are no closer to finding a
cause and we absolutely believe that the number of fire fatalities will increase. >> reporter: 70%, when you get to 100%, will you then conclusively say there are no victims in there or will it take more after that to go through the remains of this building to say for sure? if you get to a hundred today or tomorrow, will the search be over at that point? >> can you speak up a little bit louder? >> when you get to 100%, the search, once it's done at that point, will the search for remains be done at that point or will they have to sift through the remains of the building? will it be completely done at 100%? >> once the search is completed, the primary focus has been on the location and recovery. that's what we've been talking about for the last three days. we're going actually on day four. this started last friday, december 2nd. so we really on our fourth day.
our primary focus to answer your question, sir, has always been on the search and recovery. once that is completed, then we'll start having the conversations and shifting this investigation to which ever direction is appropriate. right now it's a little too early. as battalion chief said, atf has been here. they need to do investigative work to determine which direction this investigation is going to go. very good question. we'll certainly keep everybody informed. again, we have right now 36 families not only grieving for their lost ones but also they want to have answers. and we as a city collectively are working to find those answers. we want to provide answers not on for the family but for our community. and also, what can we learn from this? to prevent this from happening again, if there are lessons learned. amy, go ahead.
>> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> right. so we anticipate based on the weather reports that rain will start on wednesday and increase by friday. the fire department feels very reticent in getting in too quickly today obviously. the natural desire for firefighters and anyone in public service is to quickly get in, mitigate a situation, mitigate an emergency, in effect rescue and in this case recovery. we will not be going faster to get ahead of the rain. so we're going to be just as comprehensive, just as methodical and just as analytical to make sure that we're successful in a full recovery in the next few days. >> reporter: [ inaudible ].
>> so as we stated for the last few days, the majority over the last two days since i've been on scene were in the center of the building. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> go ahead, sir. >> there's been a lot of talk about how inspectors have not been able to gain access to the building. we know police had been in that building and at some point even this year. would they have been required if they saw something in there to let the city know that it looked like people are living in here, maybe you guys should go check that? what would be the policy? >> that's a very good question and we anticipate a lot of those answers come in ns daext days a maybe next months.
i'm going to answer your question. any time first responders go into situation, if they notice any criminal activity, we record it and report it. we're one of the first agencies to have body-worn cameras. so a lot of activity we do is recorded. let say we came to this location and there were concerns, whether it's a criminal concern or whether it's a violation. we may have captured that on our own body-worn camera footage. again, this is a very large not on incident but a tragedy. and so we immediately working with other city services collectively everyone has been working through the weekend and rightfully so. we have a lot of answers to provide to families and to provide to our community. and as we're looking at those
answers, we're looking at everything from our body-worn camera footage, what types of calls, documentation. we're working with our planning and building department, with our almeida district attorney. so we have a lot of moving parts to this and we'll certainly find answers to all of these questions. we do request patience and time. we want to do a very thorough investigation, which ever direction that takes us, whether it's criminal or remains right now as an investigation. we want to be factual with our information. yes, ann, you have a question. >> reporter: can you tell us more about the point of origin that being investigated by the atf? >> i think her question was more information about the potential point of origin, is that correct? >> reporter: yes. >> based on the significant
charring and damage in the building, we've got some damage where the steel is twisted in the building. atf feels very strongly they have identified the section of the building that is the area of origin. >> was that a kitchen or -- >> it appears to be a back of the building where we can imagine the artist collective was on the first floor and potentially during this concert the dance floor was just above. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> hot. extremely hot fire. extremely hot fire. no way of telling the cause. >> [ inaudible ].
>> that's correct. a couple folks are having a hard time hearing your question. yes, work stoppage, absolute concern for the structure and the safety of the workers that are going in there and additionally i know we want to get into a lot of the questions about cause of fire, where it started. i think that the fire department is doing an excellent job facilitating a lot of complicated situations but we also want to talk with atf and have them have their opportunity to come in and do a full inspection where we can provide you more information. i'm going to take one last question. sir, go ahead. go ahead, sir. >> for the fire official here, you just said something i wanted to follow up. did you indicate the area they're looking at for the origin would be on the first
floor more likely than the second floor? >> it's hard to determine based that we've got fire damage all the way through to the roof on the back wall. it's in of the rafters, on the steel beams and until we have an absolute, i don't even want to speculate on whether or not it was a first or second floor. >> reporter: it seemed in the first answer you may have been entertaining the first floor as -- >> no. >> again, we'll provide more information. we would like to have atf on board, have that opportunity to determine causes, areas, things like that. we're going to conclude this portion of our media briefing. throughout the day we will continue to provide information to you. we'll send out a media availability for the next time and location. right now because of the work stoppage, because we have other crews that will be coming back and joining us, it's very difficult for us to set that time. we want to come back to you with
more information. again, as the almeida county sheriff's office has stated, we'll provide names of the lost loved ones later today. we'll make sure that you do have that information. thank you very much for your patience. >> that is oakland police department public information officer johanna watson, in which they did tell us that 36 people have been identified as dead in that tragic fire. that's up from 33. of the 36 who have been recovered, 11 has been positively identified. that's up from eight. we won't get that information as to who they are until later on in the afternoon. i want to go back to steve patterson who was listening in with us. he's at the scene. steve, as we broke away from that news conference, you were mentioning something that they confirmed, that there has been a total work stoppage as a result of something that they are worried about in one of the
walls in the building. tell us what you know about that. >> reporter: yeah. a couple big bomb shells in that press conference we just heard. obviously any time there is an increased loss of life, 33 to 36. and they are sure that there are more bodies inside that warehouse. number two is you mentioned is the fact that there is now a work stoppage in place and it could last for another six hours. they're concerned about the front parapit, which is that front protected lower wall in front of the building. it's only leaning about three inches. that's the information we got from the press conference but that's enough of a lean for them to be concerned about their workers. f from minute one we heard safety is the biggest concern when you're dealing with a structure of this size. workers getting into the nooks and crannies and identifying
bodies safely and respectfully and removing them but again, doing it in a safe manner. we, again, have said from the very start of this, this recovery process is going to take a long time. we were already expecting maybe another 24 hours. you hear they've gone about 70% through the building but there's still a whole lot more to go and this could really hamper their effort. the third thing is that we heard a place of origin, at least preliminarily, that in the back of that building they saw significant charring going all the way up to the roof. so that's where they think the party on that second floor was concentrated and then below that where the artist collective was, they have identified a possible place of origin. they're going to section that part of the building off. that's where the investigation team is going to center their efforts, ali. >> you said they are expecting the death toll to rise. i assume that's because they've got people who they've identified as missing, whose
families believe they were at this event or friend believe they were at this event and they have not been accounted for? >> from the very beginning they started building a list. that was one of the first things done when this fire broke out. the list at the beginning of 25. there was 25 unaccounted for. they didn't know whether those people were missing, if they had self-checked themselves into the hospital or they were in the warehouse. since they've been talking to families, doing the hard work of finding who is missing, who is unaccounted for and they've continued to build that list. so you're right. based on what they have, they know there are more people likely in that building. now the work stoppage, they have to fact that they need the workers safe. >> they even canvassed areas and found cars that hadn't been moved and ran the license plates to see if those people might
have been there. steve patterson for us in oakland. coming up, donald trump names his new hud secretary. what qualifies ben carson who run the housing department? and cheers rang out as the pipeline is rerouted. er that uses technology once only available in doctors' offices. its wireless remote let's you control the intensity. and helps you get back to things like... this, or this. and back to being yourself. introducing new aleve direct therapy. find yours in the pain relief aisle. check your sunday paper for up to $13 in savings.
. now to politics. ben carson is donald trump's choice for hud secretary. he grew up in detroit and has no experience in the field. kristin welker is live at trump tower. two words -- why carson? >> reporter: well, i just spoke with a transition official who said a couple of things, ali. one, this is someone who has a close relationship with donald trump. they were, of course, former rivals but he then became one of donald trump's top surrogates in the general election campaign. and this is also someone according to this transition
official who they feel has the skills for this because he's traveled extensively around the country, not only during the campaign but throughout his career as a neurosurgeon. but the fact remains he doesn't have any direct experience in this area and it's something that dr. carson himself has expressed some concern about. in fact, he was tapped for this position several weeks ago and was mulling the decision over the thanksgiving holiday. we were reporting on that throughout the holiday weekend and clearly he's come to the decision that he is ready to take on this challenge, something that he himself has called a challenge given his lack of experience. undoubtedly this will come up during the confirmation hearings but again one of the central qualities for the president-elect is loyalty and dr. ben carson has that and has proven that in that final chapter of the campaign, ali. >> kristen, we tend not to pay so much attention to the housing and urban development secretary, but everybody knows the
secretary of state. seems like the pool for that job is expanding as opposed to narrowing. >> reporter: it is. and we are learning this morning that jon huntsman, former ambassador to china, former presidential candidate in 2012, also former governor of utah is now being eyed for this position. jon huntsman giving an interview earlier this morning saying so far he has no meeting scheduled with president-elect trump but he's honored to be under consideration. let's take a look at some of the other potential contenders for secretary of state. of course mitt romney, rudy giuliani, who we've been talking about for quite some time, bob corker. david petraeus, who has that challenging background because he pleaded guilty to mishandling classified information, josh bolton and rex tillerson, who is the ceo of exxon mobile. so the list is long and i think the bottom line here is that the
president-elect is going to take his time to make this decision because it's an important one and he's not going to rush it so don't expect an announcement any time soon but something he's mulling very carefully here at trump tower. >> kristen welker outside of trump tower. >> the proponents of the north dakota pipeline are celebrating after the army corps of engineer said they would block plans to run pipes through the land. a lot of celebration, but a lot of folks thinking this is the obama administration's army corps of engineers doing this
and that may change after donald trump takes office. >> yeah, i think that's one of the big concerns. yesterday was really a great day for the people, thousands of people including the thousands of veterans who have been camping out here at the standing rock camp. and there was an immediate fear after the celebrations had broken out that this could all be reversed on january 20th. those fears were compounded as shortly after midnight the energy company which is building the pipeline released a statement. we have that statement. we can put that up. what they basically say is that this is more of the same from the administration and that they are not going to stop construction on the pipeline. that leaves everything as an open question now once again. i can tell you there are people in this camp who are itching for a fight. there are veterans in this camp who are looking for a confrontation, there are various tribes in this camp who are looking to face off with authorities.
of course now one of the big questions is what are they going to do with this energy pipeline statement? do they protect the pipeline? do they protect the protesters? where do they fall in this after they were supposed to stop construction. apparently now that is not going to happen, ali. >> the protesters had a deadline. today they were supposed to leave. and many are saying they're not leaving. has that got to do with what you just said about people looking for a confrontation with authorities? >> reporter: yes. and the other thing that's happening here is you have this overwhelming feeling, especially from the standing rock sioux tribe that they've been betrayed by the government before and that this will be much of the same, that this is just another example of the u.s. government making a decision and then it being reversed, whether it's the energy company or the administration, this was almost expected by some of the elders in the tribe when this news broke out, the elders in the tribe almost immediately said let's take this with caution.
we've been down this road before. so i think it's a combination of people wanting to stay today for the original deadline. now i think we're going to see more people coming to the camp. i do want to say, however, that tomorrow the temperature is supposed to drop drastically with a wind chill minus 20 degrees. that's a very dangerous situation for people not prepared for this kind of weather. >> thank you very much. and reports that donald trump's unprecedented call to the leader in taiwan may have been months in the making. is this a key shift in u.s. policy? a member of the trump transition team joins us next.
inner cities. >> that was dr. ben carson explaining what he knows about housing and urban development. not much for someone picked to lead the agency. it's also a sharp reversal from where he was in november when his clothes friend, armstrong williams, told the hill "dr. carson feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency, the last thing he would want to do is take a position that could cripple the presidency." right now i'm joined by republican congresswoman, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> i am having trouble getting past the wording, he was worried about crippling a government agency. how does he become the best candidate for a cabinet
position? >> it's pretty simple. leadership skills are a transferable commodity. you take those leadership skills from one arena and you apply them to the next. one of the things that the public sector has needed at the local, state and federal level is the ability of individuals who have excelled in other fields to bring all of that talent and that energy and that equity to bear on fixing what's wrong with the public sector. >> i don't disagree. i'm curious why he said that he wasn't qualified to do that and it would cripple the presidency. >> i think that was a quote from mr. williams and not from dr. carson. >> true. let's shift gears and talk about the phone call getting a lot of attention between president-elect trump and the leader of taiwan. there are all sorts of different theories about this that he's the president-elect, he can do whatever he wants. i think a lot of americans
probably don't know of or care all that much about state department protocol but do you think this was deliberate? do you think he was really trying to send a message to china or was he just making a phone call? >> my understanding is it was a call from a duly elected taiwan official and that was made to mr. trump. also, i do not think that it is something that signifies any great change. the one china policy has not changed in mr. trump's comments about china have been consistent through the campaign and as he is into this transition. >> let's think about this. they have been consistent insofar as china's a problem for america in terms of currency, in terms of how much we depend on china. so there are some saying it might be a good idea to shake up that u.s.-china relationship. is this the way to do it, to be
more openly supportive or at least communicative with taiwan, even if that end up upsetting the chinese government, which for better or worse we do have an important relationship with? >> we have important relationships with china. yes, they're one of the top five holders of our debt. usually they're at number two and they have more than a trillion dollars worth of our debt. yes, you have to look at that and you have to look at the geo political implications that are there in that entire region. i think also we have to look at the fact that china wants to be a market economy and they want to be considered as such. but then maybe they don't always want to honor our intellectual property rights. so, you know, we've got some things that are certainly on the table with china. taiwan does some trade with the u.s., we all know that, and many
individuals, myself included, have been to taiwan, have been to taipei, have been through meetings. so i think that it is good for our allies and our enemies to realize that our focus is going to be on america first. >> donald trump sent out tweets threatening a 35% tax on american companies which leave the united states or establish factories elsewhere and then try and sell their products in the united states. now, senator ben sasse tweeted "president-elect trump means well but won't his 35% tariff idea raise prices on american families? how would it not be a new 35% tax on families? can you answer that? >> i will leave that to those that are working on trade policy. i think it is important to note that we want to see these american manufacturing jobs stay here. at the committee i vice chair, energy and commerce, we have a
subcommittee which is commerce, manufacturing and trade and for the past four years we've been doing little symposiums where different manufacturers from around the country come in. some of them are working in 3-d printing, some in auto manufacturing. all different areas, ali. what we want them to do is to show us what they're doing, talk with us about what the impediments are and then also lay out what their ideas and hopes for expansion will be if we can get some of this regulatory burden, litigious burden, taxation burden off their backs. what we want to do is bring many of those jobs back and keep those, retain those jobs so that we don't have to count quite as much on some of our trading partners but also that we have things to export so that we don't see the imbalances that we have in our books when it comes
to trade. >> yours is a much more fullsome answer than the little tweets about 35% tariffs that don't explain it so i appreciate your explanation. congresswoman blackburn, our thoughts remain with those in your state recovering from those remarkable fires. >> we are holding them close. >> joining me is p.j. crowley, author of "fractured politics and failing states." good to see you. our relationship with kmn is much bigger than trade and currency, it's about regional stability and military activities in the south china sea and possibly most importantly it's about the influence that china has over a nuclear armed and belligerent north korea. with all that in mind, give me your assessment with donald trump's phone call with the leader of taiwan. >> well, you're right. all presidents -- all candidates
go through this evolution. they rail against china on the campaign trail only to discover that it's perhaps arguably the most important bilateral relationship the united states has with anyone in the world and there's an evolution over time. i think we are learning that there was, in fact, a conscious decision and a strategy behind the phone call that was in the works for some time. and it has two elements. first is gaining leverage over china. you know, on the campaign trail donald trump is asking a lot of china. he wants better deals on trade. he wants china to use its leverage over north korea. it wants to stop building artificial islands and increases tensions in the south china sea. so now the question is wading into the difficult and complex diplomatic waters of taiwan, a major issue perhaps how china defines itself, is this the best
issue to gain leverage over china? we'll have to wait and see. >> so let me ask you this. premier xi is going to be going to davos, to the world economic forum. it's the first time a chinese leader has ever done that. you were at the state department. if you were trying to send china a clear message that america means business, which we've been doing with battleships in the south china sea for some time and tpp, evaluate the strategy. if there was a premeditated strategy, was this tit a good o? >> that leads to the second question, if you want to help taiwan, is a one-off gesture like the phone call going to do it? on the one hand it's going to feed beijing's existing -- about taiwan, particularly about a president who is a member of the tpp, the party that the mainland
does not trust. tpp is an area where taiwan was angling to get included in the tpp. tpp is not part of the trump play book but if you wanted to help taiwan over the long term, help build its economy and integrate it into the regional trade structure, tpp would be a far better vehicle to do that than a one-off phone call. >> thank you for joining us. coming up, has fake news gone too far? a man opens fire on a d.c. pizza parlor because he apparently saw fake stories that claimed hillary clinton ran a child sex ring out of the restaurant.
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incident because of so-called fake news. police say the man claimed he was investigates a false conspiracy theory involving a child sex abuse ring supposedly run by hillary clinton. nbc's halle jackson is live in washington, d.c. halle, this would be maybe funny if it didn't involve a gun. >> reporter: here's the thing. it's fake news, ali. it's a fake conspiracy theory with real life consequences. police say the suspect, 28-year-old edgar madison welch armed with an assault rival walked in this comet ping-pong piz pizza restaurant and fired a shot. he said he came to self-investigate what we're talking about here, pizzagate, this fake online conspiracy
theory that made the round during this presidential co campaign was the center of a child sex ring run by hillary clinton. since this went viral, the owner said he's received hundreds of death threats. at this point police believe it's only welch that was involved in this incident. >> halle, it defies belief. what a story. ali jackson for us in washington. coming up, cheers and celebration. it's announced that the standing rock pipeline will be rerouted. but a new president is coming in in a month so is this simply a delay? scary, and messy and fragile. but under the proper care, they become something beautiful.
so this company was trying to pretend that this pipeline qualified for that half acre exemption. the corps finally said no. >> why do companies do this? in 2016 when you know there's going to be opposition to this or any other pipeline, i get the argument there are millions of miles of piepeline in this country, why not do it differently?
crossing permit but before you do that, you have to do the full looking at alternative routes. as you know, the pipeline was originally routed through the waters of bismarck. you had white people at that point who protested, so the company moved the project on to indian land. >> thinking they won't have the political clout to get the sh t shutdown. >> exactly. so what the eis process is to look at all the alternatives but it is not a denial and that's one of the reasons a lot of the people are protesting out there. >> good to see you. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. coming up, the country trying to wrap its mind around the saga of sherry papini. the ransom expert and then reward for sherry will be here.
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that wraps up this hour. i'm ali velshi in for stephanie ruhle. coming up, more news with chris jansing. >> thank you so much, ali. i'm chris jansing. right now live on msnbc, mass casualty. chilling new details about the moments that deadly oakland warehouse went up in flames as the number of victims killed in that blaze continues to rise. standing rock victory. after months of protests, a polarizing pipeline set to run through north dakota is put on hold, but for how long? team trump has a new member. former rival ben carson in housing and urban development. new clues about the foreign policy plans for china but let's begin with breaking news on that deadly warehouse fire in oakland, california. we just learned from officials that 36 people died in that blaze and they expect the number to rise. the cause of the fire still unknown.