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tv   For the Record With Greta  MSNBC  January 25, 2017 3:00pm-4:01pm PST

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♪ you're going to make it after all ♪ >> now all we're missing is meow. anyway, i'm not going to meow to greta. "for the record with greta" starts right now. greta, it's all yours. >> thank you, check. "for the record," my special one-on-one, and a rapidfire news day from president trump. what does speaker ryan say about president trump's call for major investigation into voter fraud despite a lack of widespread evidence? also trump's controversial border wall promise. speaker ryan speaks out. does he support it? and who does speaker ryan think will pay for it? and they had some tough words for each other before the election. hear what speaker ryan says about working together and how often they talk. good evening. live from independence mall in the great city of philadelphia,
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where the republican retreat is under way just blocks from here and they have a lot to talk about. and so does speaker paul ryan. i sat down with him today and asked him about all the news and some of the controversies inside the trump white house. mr. speaker, nice to see you. >> great to have you back, greta. i'm glad you're back on the air. >> it's fun. i'm glad. this is an adventure. always fun to start a new job. >> absolutely. >> i want to ask you a few questions about news of the day, since we're at your retreat in philadelphia, i want to find out about your plan for the next 200 days. legislative plan. we start with the news of the day. president trump says he wants an investigation into voter fraud. for or against it? >> i think it's fine. i think if, first of all, i'm sure there is some fraud. we passed voter i.d. in wisconsin because of our concerns about this a few years ago. if he believes there's a rob to be looked at, the right thing to do is get the evidence, the facts. i haven't seen evidence of
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widespread numbers we've been hearing about. the thing to do is an investigation to get the facts and make a judgment based on the facts. >> he's made it sound like that's why he lost the popular vote. do you believe that? >> he's ft. of tpresident of th states. that speaks for itself. >> are you going have an investigation an capitol hill? >> we haven't been discussing that. not sure what nature of an investigation he wants. if there's a concern here, the right thing to do is investigate and find the facts and act accordingly. >> today he announced he wants to begin building that wall. who's going to pay for it? >> well, first off, we're going to pay for it. i think there are various ways of -- as you knows, i know your follow-up question, is mexico going to pay for the wall? there are a lot of different ways of getting mexico to contribute to doing this. and there are different ways of defining how exactly they pay for it. point is, he has a promise he made to the american people which is to secure our border. a wall is a big part of that. we agree with that goal and will be working with him to finance construction of the physical
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barrier including the wall on the southern border. the law is already on the books. it's been sitting there for years. i voted for it, like, ten years ago, but nothing has gotten done and now we have a president who actually wants to secure the border and we are all in favor of doing that. >> i think a lot of people are in favor of securing the border, both sides of the aisle, but the estimates are $8 billion to $14 million. >> that's about right. >> the question is whether or not that's an effective way to really seal the border. >> absolutely, i think you do have to -- there's more things than just a border security on the border. i think you have to have interior enforcement, a long conversation we can have about how to enforce immigration laws. physically securing the border is essential. look, we have a massive heroin opioid epidemic in america, drugs coming from the cartels from the south. we have national security concerns. there are lots of concerns which must be addressed by actually securing out border and so a physical security barrier on the border is something we've all -- i voted for it, like i said, in 2006 or 2007. chuck schumer, my friend, voted for that as well. back in those days. so now we have to get on with
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twha actually doing it. >> what does the mess sage sendo our allies we're building a wall, mexico is not too happy, mexico's president says they're not going to play for it. >> sovereign countries have the right and responsibility of securing their borders. all sovereign countries have that right. we have not exercised that right. we're going to now. >> what about the dreamers? the president i don't think has touched on that. he has seemed to indicate he wants to go after people who are likely -- >> correct. >> -- to cause, you know, crime in this country, terrorism, but we got this whole category of dreamers. what about the dreamers? >> yeah, i mean, that's something i think he wants to make sure is handled compassionately, that we don't pull the rug out from under people because of the situation that they're in. so this is really an executive order and the ones i think that are coming are focused on national security, on the border, on whether terrorists are trying to infiltrate the refugee population and that issue is thing that we're going to be dealing with later and we believe legislation is the way to fix this problem. >> so, dreamers today, can they
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count on you? those would be the people who are brought -- >> that's what we've been saying all along. >> they don't have to worry? >> they don't have to worry. focused on the border, those coming to do us harm and things like that. that is our focus, on criminal aliens, people who are violent criminals who have not been deported. those are the things the president said he's going to focus on, that's the legislation he's asked us to focus on for the moment and that's what we're dealing with. >> he says he's going to do away with the catch and release, he wants to build more detention centers. >> always been in favor of that, long part of our immigration policy, part of our national security policy we as republicans ran on through 2016. >> are we going to get a comprehensive immigration plan out of the congress? we have people overstay their visas. that's a huge problem. >> i never believed that one big bill is the way to go. those things collapse under their own weight. massive legislation, you always get ugly provisions tucked into it so we believe the smartest
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way to do this is do it in a piecemeal step-by-step way to get it right and the first focus has got to be security. so the first goal here is security, internal security, interior enforcement, external security, border enforcement, get those right, make sure violent criminals aren't roaming our streets. those are the things we're focused on right now then when we have confidence that we've actually figured that problem out, then i believe we should fix this broken illegal immigration system which isn't working for anybody. image and visa tracking is very important as far as our security. about 40% of people who are undocumented are people who came and overstayed. they came legally but overstayed their visas so this is a complicated problem we want to fix on a step-by-step basis, prioritizing national security and border security first. >> today, there was a report that the white house has a memorandum floating around there that says that there will be black sites -- >> it's a bogus deal.
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>> let me say, sean spicer said it is not a white house document. >> right, right. >> but other news organizations, i think nbc, confirmed that the document exists, that perhaps it's the trump administration -- >> no, it's not the trump administration. >> so it doesn't exist, you're saying it doesn't exist at all? >> no, i'm not saying it doesn't exist. this was not written by the trump administration. >> okay. who was it written by? >> i don't know the person's name. >> does it exist? >> you have to ask the administration. my understanding is this was written by somebody who worked on the transition before who's not in the trump administration. this is not a product of the administration. that's the point that i think is noteworthy. >> where is this? >> i don't know. i'm in the congress. i'm not in the administration. >> i've seen all these reports, everyone seems so -- talking about it today. >> this is not something the trump administration is planning on, working on or we're talking about. that's point that i think matters here. >> so, what about the companion issue, enhanced interrogation, that's currently against the law, is that going to be brought back into the discussion? >> that's not something we've been discussing. . i think this came up in mike pomp pompeo's confirmation hearings. we're a humane country.
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we got to make sure we find the intelligence, do it in a humane way following the law. >> can you work with president trump? >> of course, i can. no, i do work with president trump. not can i. i do work with president trump. i work with him quite closely, actually. >> how often -- >> i spent more time talking with this president in the last few days, i think, than i -- on a limb here, than i probably talked with this last president in the last six months. so this is something that he is working very closely hand in glove with congress. >> what about the executive actions? is that going to be a problem at some time? does he understand sort of the division between executive actions and the job of the congress to legislate? >> i think he does understand that. we talked about it a great deal. we're very excited about what he's doing because what he's doing is pulling back what we see as unconstitutional executive actions from the fast presidents. so what he is doing is taking away the executive overreach that president obama did which we thought exceeded his powers. so we see president trump actually reclaiming the proper role of the executive, and
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undoing a lot of damage that was done to the economy through excessive executive action by president obama. >> you raise the economy, is free trade over in the gop? >> no. we want free trade but we want free trade that is good. we want free trade that levels the playing field. what i keep telling people is, getting trade agreements that are good for america is good for everybody. that means we get other countries to play by our rules. you add up all the countries we have trade agreements with, we have a sir plaurplus with them. add up the countries we do not have a trade agreement with, that's where a massive trade deficit comes from. our goal is to get free trade agreements and get other countries to play and live by our rules so we can level the playing field. what donald trump has been concerned about, what he's talked about, is when we get deals that don't level the playing field. when we get deals that aren't the kinds of best deals we can get. we want good deals and those are free trade deals to lower the barriers between trade between two countries but more importantly, we're the generous country, we're the ones that open our doors to other countries and in many cases we get taken advantage of because
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of that and we want to have trade agreements that give us a level playing field, get other countries to respect the rule of law, intellectual property ri t rights, lower their taxes to our barriers and those are things president trump agrees with. >> were you in favor of tpp? >> i favored the idea of tpp but did not support the obama administration. two, three things they did that were terrible agreements that were not worth supporting. >> with us pulling out does that the create a void that china is going to move in? >> i have a concern, we say no tpp, we're done, ignoring the region, yes, we're creating a void for china. that's not what the president is saying. he's now talking about end gauging gauge i engaging in countries in a bilateral basis. we had boris johnson in the other day, we have theresa may coming tomorrow. talking about starting trade talks with great britain, bilateral agreements with other countries in asia to expand our
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influence and get countries to play by our set of rules. if we write the rules of the global economy, we will succeed in the 21st century. we have to write those rules, have to engage. the president said tpp is not the way to do it. getti inting good birat ll agres is the way. i'm fine with that strategy. i think that strategy can work as well. >> much more of my interview ahead. let's bring in mark allen. and mike halperin, co-author of "game change. ""let's talk about the document floating around, everyone in the media was talking about it today. the white house says it is not a white house document. speaker ryan says it was done by someone on the transition team. can you help me at all with this? >> well, greta, first congratulations on a very meaty, chatty interview with your fellow cheesehead there, and greta, the speaker was very clear there that it was not -- he was very legalistic in the
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fact that it's not an administration product but this is clearly something that had been considered and both you and mark and i have all been getting a lot of documents out of the transition that give a very good sense of where they're headed and it's not necessarily a formal document. a lot of people involved in the transition who were not a formal part of the structure going to the west wing but getting a very clear picture of where they're hided and what we've seen from the president in the last five days is very much a reflection of all those administration and transition plans. we're really seeing trump in full including this speed ate o announcements today. >> mark, we saw during the campaign he oftentimes talked about how isis would chop people's heads off, he was very concerned, this is donald trump, about how we responded and enhanced interrogation which is code for torture is against the law. senator john mccain has been opposed to it very, very vocal about it. is this -- is something that --
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is this really about to be debated, do you think, or is this -- we just followed -- we're just following a document that's going to go nowhere? >> well, no one should be surprised in the balance between national security and civil liberties, president trump like candidate trump wants to be more a aggressive. a lot of people were surprised how barack obama made that balance as president. on some areas he went for national security, including the drone program, including targeting american citizens overseas in ways that put the balance on national security more than civil liberties. this president made it clear he wants to put the balance back more toward a dick cheney view of the world, and while speaker ryan in your interview with him wanted to disown the document, the reality is most of the ideas raised in there are things i'm certain have been debated not just in the transition but as they go twhaoward making policy. john mccain and others are outspoken against these kinds of things but the base of the republican party, my guess is most of donald trump's followers, would find these things to be, if not acceptable,
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at least things worthy of discussion. >> i think our new secretary of defense said he's going to follow the law, mike, so i think, you know, that pretty much ends the discussion unless the law changes. >> that's right, and there's no way that this debate can be avoided and they can put aside the specific paper, but i think that mark is right, this is congruent with what we're hearing out of this white house and it's an unavoidable conversation. >> mark, what about mexico tonight? what do you think that president of mexico is thinking? he's supposed to be here soon. >> well, there's at least one report that he's reconsidering whether he should come and certainly public opinion in mexico, there's a lot of people there who would like him to cancel the visit. donald trump is going to put a focus on this relationship. i think the mexican government is going to be forced to at least be more aware of what goes on in the trump administration than they were in the obama administration. you saw in your interview with speaker ryan, though, an echo of what the whousz and the president have started to say, which is, well, we're not going
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to get a check from mexico to pay for the wall on the front end. we're going to fwiind some way get the money back but initially will be paid for by the u.s. i think, look, donald trump is a master of moving on from losses when he suffered them, and if he can't find a way in the short term to get the wall paid for by mexico, i think he'll trumpet the fact that the wall is being built. speaker ryan made is clear the republican congress agrees with him that's something that should be done. >> mike, he made a lot of promises in the run-up to the election and moving licke lickety-split through with the executive orders. i imagine the people who voted for him for these reasons are quite pleased with him. >> yeah, greta, this was a very trumpian announcement today about the wall. i talked to a bunch of republicans on the hill after the president's announcement, and what he announced is long and it's call. he's talking about a thousand miles which is very much the way president trump likes to frame
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things. 35 to 60 feet high. he says it will cost $8 billion to $12 billion. axia has a report up saying that estimates go as much as three times that. so it's going to cost more than he thinks, but he has the down payment from this congress and he'll go on to pay for -- this congress certainly will, as we get to the fall, pay for more if they need to, i'm told, and the mexico part of it is an i owe you, and who knows. >> mark, we have 30 seconds left. the speaker made very plain that the people who are so-called dreamers need not to be worried tonight. i don't know, he seemed quite convinced of that. >> donald trump appointed people from goldman socks s tock sach government. this is big issue he ran on and i believe he can buy some time. your interview with speaker ryan suggested, i think they're threeithree
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i trying to go back to the republican dodge, going to focus on border security first, focus on criminals in country first and punt down the road issues like the 12 million people who are here illegally. maybe the issue of what employers do. they think they got the ability to get a comprehensive reform. barack obama although he wanted comprehensive reform had less a good chance of getting it than donald trump because of the nixon goes to china factor here, where trump can secure the border and get people on board, i think he could see comprehensive reform. not this year but maybe next year. >> jegentle help, thank you, bo. ahead, much more with speaker ryan including news he made on repeating obamacare. can you make the pledge to the american people, if they like the current doctor they have now they can keep it and the prices aren't going up over the new gop? >> that promise was already violated. that promise was already broken. >> all right. >> you want to hear what he said next. and as we mentioned president trump calls for the immediate construction of a
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border wall. we're live at the border. hear what locals are saying about who will pay for it. you're watching msnbc live from philadelphia. ♪ ♪ after becoming one of the largest broadband companies in the country. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast. these are the places we call home. we are centurylink. we believe in the power of the digital world. the power to connect. and that's what drives us everyday.
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we're back in philadelphia where the republican retreat is under way and we now have more with my interview with house speaker paul ryan on how republicans plan to repeal and replace obamacare. obamacare in the next it200 dayi hear from the democrats they want to repeal obamacare. when i think of repeal, i think of all of a sudden one day we wake up and it's gone. is it repeal obamacare or are you making adjustment s refinements, amendments, change? >> repealing and replacing with better law. >> it's going to completely go away one day and replaced by something the next day? >> i think what the democrats are trying to say in february it
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goes away and you won't have your health care plan tomorrow. >> is it a phaseout, one day it's there and -- >> passing the legislation that repeals and replaces obamacare with a patient-centered system that brings down prices and expands choices so people have more -- better access to more afos affordable health care choices and options. that takes time to put into place so we will once the administration gets up and running, they don't even -- they haven't even processed tom price who's going to be a phenomenal hhs secretary, or sima verma, a medicaid expert, they haven't put them in place yet. we have to wait for the administration to put in place, work with the administration, passing legislation, repealing and replacing obamacare. when that actually takes place will take some time and the administration will help determine how we phase one out and replace and phase in its replacement. the whole point of this, though, is to make sure we don't pull the rug out from underneath anybody in the meantime, but the reason we're acting now is because obamacare is collapsing
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under its own weight. >> when obamacare was passed in 2009, the republicans were very upset because it gave so much authority to the secretary of hhs. which was sebelius at the time. and something like 2,500 references in a 2,. 3 -- 2,300 document. it's almost as show now you got the situation where you guy, price is going to be hhs. could you achieve that what you're trying to do with the power in the secretary of hhs in the obamacare -- >> i think it's a combination of things. this will take a lot of legislating because there are a lot of things that obamacare legislated which contributed to the massive premium spike that's occurring. we got five states with only one insurer left. one out of three counties in america only have one insurer left. i really think that's because of the legislation. that legislation we're going to replace and replace it with something better, but we also believe in conjunction with this legislation, hhs, as you just mentioned, has an enormous
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amount of discretion that they have so far used to make it harder to get affordable health care. to make you buy what the government insists you must buy. that doesn't work. >> can you make -- >> so we think -- we think the administration can give us a lot of regulatory flexibility which will bring more insurers in the mark place which means more competition, more choice which drives down costs so that can work in a good way or bad way. he's worked heretofore in a bad way in my opinion. legislation is going to be critical. >> can you make the pledge to american people if they like the current doctor they have now, they can keep it and the -- >> that promise was already violated. that promise was already broken. >> all right. okay. in light of that -- >> obamacare broke that promise. >> what people have today, so it's not going to get worse? for those who are really feeling hurt by it. >> here's the problem, greta, already going away. balm. obamacare is leaving. >> people are terrified. it's the most confusing law. i've struggled through that law. very difficult.
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>> millions of people, millions of people already lost the plan that they liked. millions of people -- >> the ones who like the new e one, whatever they got. >> you have 11.5 million people in what we call exchange subsidy plans. supposed to be 28 million this year. 11.5 million people in plans. by the way, those plans are going up double digits every year. the deductibles in the plans are three times as high as they are in what we call the large group market. people get health care from their jobs. so these plans aren't working, either. our point isn't to give them the same thing. the same thing's bad. it's getting worse. >> so they're going it get better. under your plan. >> yes. our point is we don't want to sit in the government and tell you what you have to buy. we want to make this work so that you have choices. so that we have more competition. our goal is to make sure that everyone in this country has access to affordable health care including people with pre-existing conditions. so they can access affordable coverage. that is not what you have with obamacare. >> all right. what about the people on medicaid who can't afford any medical care?
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>> you know the reason why? doctors don't even take medicaid by in large. >> what happens to them? >> we need to reform medicaid as well. our plan will be to reform medicaid. we're not going to end medicaid. we're going to give the governors more control and leeway to bring innovative reforms to make medicaid work. my state, scott walker, our governors, reformed medicaid so it actually works so doctors will take the program. mike pence and mitch daniels in indiana, the woman who's coming in to run the medicaid program at the federal level, seema verma, she made healthy indiana work, low-income people in indiana have health care coverage to get access to a doctor. those are what we want to see happen in all 50 states. that's not been happening under obamacare. so we believe we can dramatically improve the way medicaid works by giving governors more control and flexibility to innovate to make it work for people with low income because it's not working in so many states right now. >> with me, congressman john kbrr
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yarma, democrat of kentucky. >> greta. >> i've seen so many estimates on this wall from $8 billion to $14 billion. any time you put a billion on something, that's a whole lot of money. is this money going to be -- is this money going to come out of congress? are you going to authorize this? >> well, i suspect the republicans are in control and they'll be able to authorize it. i think it's a bad idea. i was part of the gang of eight in the house in 2013 that was working on comprehensive immigration reform. we talked a lot about border security and what was effective and what was not. walls are not effective when you're out in the desert and don't need them. walls are important when you're separating two urban areas where if you're actually able to get over the border you can get into the underground network in 30 seconds. when you're out in the middle of the desert, it makes no sense because you have border security people have up to a day to apprehend people who are crossing illegally. so, you know, the only thing i heard speaker ryan say that made
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sense was, we actually really need to look at this and see what makes sense and what doesn't, because electronic detection in those kind of -- and drones and other types of border protecting devices seem to be much more effective in certain places. >> is there a way, if this wall is built, president trump seems to -- he said he's going to do it. he's got the power as the president. is there a way to sort of spread this cost so that, you know, if the taxpayers have to pay it upfront, is there a way to make it so as president trump says is that the mexican -- mexicans will end up paying for it? can we somehow make that happen or is that unrealistic? >> i think it's unrealistic and, you know, countries make policies for themselves and donald trump wants to make -- that's his policy. he wants to build the wall. it would be silly to say we're going to -- we're going to create an army, we're going to have mexico pay for our border
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patrol, our border police. clearly that's not going to happen. i don't think this wall, having the -- there's no way to force them to, but expecting the mexicans to pay for it doesn't make any sense either. >> we have a minute left. i'm going to be speaking in a second with speaker ryan about tax reform. do you anticipate that as ranking member in the budget committee, do you anticipate that in this year, there will be tax reform? >> well, i know we're going to be asked to pass a budget resolution which will have instructions in there that will allow the senate to pass tax reform with a mere majority and not 60 votes. so they'll probably have the power to do it. you know, what i always say with these things, when you're trying to do comprehensive things like tax reform, there will be 20,000 lobbyists in washington trying to work their will on that piece of legislation so, you know, people think it's going to be a lot easier than it will end up being. >> then you need to stick around, see what speaker ryan says about those lobbyists. he said something about those.
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anyway, thank you, sir. >> okay, greta. ahead, speaker ryan -- speaker ryan, president trump and the issue of tax reform. are they on the same page? and donald trump calling for a, quote, major investigation into voter fraud. where's this going? stay with us live from philadelphia.
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we're back with much more from my exclusive interview with house speaker paul ryan. longtime champion of a conservative vision. but is he on the same page as president trump? taxes. president trump says he wants to reduce the taxes. where do you see -- in your conversations with him, where do you see the tax code? >> we spend a great deal of time talking about this, again, one of our pieces of our 200-pay plan, part of our ambitious agenda. we don't think we can get the kind of economic growth we had the potential to get without tax
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reform. so we're working with the administration on working on tax reform. our plan, our blueprint, we call it, you can go to better.gop and see our blueprint, what we're working off of. we got to get our tax rates down. >> where do you see this going down to? >> he'd love 15 pk f% for busin. >> corporations, too? >> i won't get into -- our plan says 20% for corporations, 25 for s-corporations. s-corporations pay one layer of tax, corporations pay two layers of tax. we basically see equivalent, but here's the point. the rest of the world, they tax their businesses at an average rate in the industrialized world at 23%. our corporate rate is 35%. our top s-corporate rate, small business rate 44.6% effectively. this is killing us. oh, by the way, here's what the rest of the world does that we don't do. they take the tax off of their exports and place a tax on their imports. we do the opposite. we tax our exports and don't tax our imports. so we're putting ourselves --
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we're basically double taxing made in america products. and so what we're saying is let's equalize this so that we're on a level playing field, so that american-made goods and services are on a level playing field with the rest of the world. and let's lower our tax rates on our businesses so we're on par with the rest of the world so we don't keep losing our businesses. more american businesses are being bought by foreign firms or becoming foreign firms or outsourcing. right now the tax code says if you want to make something in another country, reimport it back into macro, america, go ah do that. we want manufacturing to return to america. we want jobs. economic growth. >> how fast -- because businesspeople plan, how fast -- >> our goal is to get this done by the end of summer which is for congress quite fast. >> your tax is a little higher than the president's plan at this point. >> a little higher because that's the way our numbers work. we agree, if you look at the president's plan that he ran on, it's virtually identical to the plan that the house ran on. >> where are we going to get the
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hundre money? we got to think about paying things whether -- i guess you're expecting a robust economy, people are paying more taxes. >> you get it from closing special interest loopholes and carveouts. >> you were one of the voters against the -- what was the tax code a number of years ago, the program, where the 3,300 loopholes are going to be -- >> i'm not sure what you're talking about. >> the bipartisan tax zmi commission, you were on it. >> simpson bowles. >> you voted against that. >> i don't want to get rid of taxes. it hollowed our our military, did nothing to repeal balm beob and -- >> yours is an improvement over that? >> absolutely. >> the point, you're saying, where do you get the money from, close loopholes, close the special interest washington carveouts. that means more incomes subject to taxation to lower the rates on our businesses and be fair. here's the problem with the tax code right now.
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if you have a special carveout for your business, your industry, in you do something washington approves of, then they'll let you keep some of your money back. we don't like that. keep your money in the first place. let's make our companies competitive. let's make good business decisions dominate their decision making, not what's good for washington carveouts. >> i find it bizarre i bet not one member of congress can do his or her own taxes because it's so complicated. >> it's a testament to how awful the -- >> no once understands the tax code. former secretary of defense rumsfeld says he sends his in and did the best he could. he pays account taants -- >> a vast amount of americans can fill out their taxes on a postcard. when we're done simplifying the tax code, lowering our rates and letting people have a simple system, most americans will be able to fill out their taxes on
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a postcard. >> blow up k street, the lobbyists? >> yes. i've been trying to do this for years. i'm so excited we finally get a chance to do this because we had a house and senate and president with us on getting this stuff out of the tax code, cleaning it up and getting this thing cleaned up. if you can clean up the cesspool of the tax code and give us a pro-growth tax code, that is how you grow the economy. that's how you take power and money out of washington and give it back to the people and we are so excited. we have a president that is here to work with us in doing that. >> one of the president's programs is an infrastructure program, and in the 2009 federal stimulus, a big component of it was infrastructure which a lot of republicans fought against the 2009 stimulus, probably didn't like other parts of it. if -- where are we going to get the money for his infrastructure bill? >> first of all, i'd say that stimulus was a lot of other spending that wasn't quite as much stimulus. the thing -- >> did it work? >> no, it didn't work. didn't work at all, actually. just gave us a big debt hangover. the point i'd say is stimulus infrastructure spending is not
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instant jobs and that's the mistake they made back in those days i think. these things aren't so shovel ready. it does take time. i think the real reason the president wants to do this is because we have a crumbling infrastructure problem and you need a good modern infrastructure for economic growth to occur. not just the jobs building the infrastructure, but you need to have a good highway system. you need to have a good bridge system, a good pipeline system, a good canal and waterway system for economic growth to occur. for a modern economy to succeed. and so he sees this and we agree with him, and we've added this to our agenda at his request, we need to upgrade and modernize america's infrastructure, our budget in the spring is going to have to figure out how to balance those priorities and pay for it and our big goal is to leverage private sector dollars as much as possible. so that the public taxpayer isn't paying for all of this. we do think there are innovative ways to get the private sector to pony up money to fix and modernize a lot of our infrastructure. we think that's necessary just as a foundation for economic growth. not the jobs in and of themselves, which you do make by
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building bridges and things like this, but it's the economic growth that comes from having a modern infrastructure that is in dire need of repair. >> one thing you and i always talk about, i know you have to go, i hope you'll come back and talk about -- >> you're going to bring up the packers, aren't you? so depressing. >> i'm not going to bring up the packers. come back and we'll talk inner cities sometimes. you and i talked about that. used to work for jack kemp. the president talked about it at his inaugural address. >> i'd love to do that. that would be great. go, pack, go. >> go, pack, go. president trump vowed to start building that border wall. we'll get a live report from the southern border.
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the secretary of homeland security working with myself and my staff will begin immediate construction of a border wall. our order also does the following. ends the policy of catch and release at the border. requires other countries to take back their criminals. they will take them back. cracks down on sanctuary cities. empowers i.c.e. officers to target and remove those who pose a threat to public safety.
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goals for the hiring of another 5,000 border patrol officers. calls for the tripling, the number of i.c.e. officers. >> president trump calls for the immediate construction of a border wall but will mexico pay for it? i asked speaker ryan what we saw. today he announced he wants to begin building that wall. who's going to pay for it? >> first off, we're going to pay for it and front the money up. there are various ways, i know your follow-up question is is mexico going to pay for the wall? there's a lot of different way of getting mexico to contribute to doing this and different ways of defining how exactly they paid for it. point is, he has a promise he made to the american people which is to secure our border, a wall is a big part of that. we agree with that goal. and we will be working with him to finance construction of the physical barrier including the wall on the southern border. >> nbc's gadi schwartz is in the
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border town of nogales, arizona. >> reporter: hey, greta, we're in nogales, arizona, and that over there is nogales, mexico. both of these communities seem to be on the same page when it comes to their opposition to this wall, in fact, to this fence, too, a lot of them were telling us they don't respect this fence, they see border patrol and the border patrol will apprehend them. they don't see this as a deterrent. one man told us it takes 15 seconds to climb over that fence. now, we were talking to a lot of people down along the fence on both sides of the border. a lot of them telling us that this was about family. they've got family over here in the united states. and family over here in mexico. and they were saying that the fence right now, as it s where you can see through is, serves as somewhat of a meeting place for families. come here, speak to each other, some families come very regularly. other families we saw one woman come here and she hadn't seen her sister in 11 years. he's a little bit about what they had to say.
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[ speaking spanish ] she says that every eight days that her kids come to the wall and then she's able to communicate with them. do you think that a lot of people on this side of the border would work on the wall? >> i don't think so. >> reporter: you don't think so? why not? >> because nobody like trump over here. >> reporter: nobody likes trump. >> everybody hate him. >> reporter: greta, just a little while ago you were asking me that $10 billion, $15 billion question, who's going to pay for that wall? that's a big concern for the people on the mexican side of the border. they say they have heard trump say he wants them to pay for it. obviously, enrico pena nieto, president of mexico, said the united states is going to pay for it, they are not going to pay for it. that is still yet to be seen. greta? >> gadi, thank you. speaker ryan says he's fine with trump's call for a major investigation into voter fraud. that's next.
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president trump took to twitter today calling for a major investigation into voter fraud, despite any evidence speaker ryan telling me, though, he is fine with it and open to an investigation. annie linsk your for the "boston globe." yamiche alcindor, msnbc contributor. tell me where this investigation is going to go if any place? >> as of now there's no evidence there is widespread voter fraud. i should add that president trump i trump's lawyers in defending him against a recount jill stein asked for, they said there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud. it's going to be interesting to see what states and what he considers voter fraud. >> we're always going to find some fraud in anything. i think the key here is whether, you know, there's widespread,
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and certainly enough to change the popular vote significantly. but i don't know who's going to do this investigation. i don't know if president trump expects it to be capitol hill, doj investigation, a task force. do you have any insight? >> yeah, that part is much like much of the story, very unclear. i mean, the thing, greta, that does seem very clear is that donald trump seems to be able to see things and see enemies where they don't exist or see people where they don't exist. whether it's looking out on the field and the mall and seeing supporters who were not actually there and complaining about his crowd size, or looking at the election results and seeing this massive amount of voter fraud, according to him, that there is no evidence of. that seems to be the pattern with this president is that he is fighting these phantom enemies. meanwhile, there are very real issues to take on. >> yamiche, it would probably be smart at least if i were advising the president, he hasn't asked me, of course, i
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haven't spoken to him, to figure out a way to get away from this. it's always good if the states can examine the secretary of sta states, the individual states can make sure they have votes that have bintegrity. i think he needs to get out of this one. >> i think there are a lot of people who feel that way. i imagine a lot of republicans are thinking, wait, we've been waiting so long to have all this control and now we have it. i was looking at your interview with paul ryan. he really felt -- he looked giddy when he was talking about all the things he could do with the tax reform. this idea the president is talking about crowd sizes on one day then launching an investigation into voter fraud on another day, it just seems kind of bizarre because there are a lot of things they could be doing. they would be implementing conservative ideals and, of course, he is doing that, signing all these executive orders but to have this still be on his plate, to be talking about voter fraud when there is no evidence is just bizarre. >> and of course, we have 20 seconds left, but the media certainly takes the bait on all these stories. >> yeah. no, that's right. although it does make you wonder, i mean, why is he sort
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of undermining the legitimacy of his own win? i mean, it really is head scratching as to why this is a topic that he was talking about. >> thank you, both. and "for the record" tonight a secret service agent, a serious message and what we should all agree on.
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have something to say "for the record." [ train whistle ] wow. anyway, for the record, you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to not know people are saying dopey, careless, emotional things, even insindh ca incendiary. >> i have thought an awful lot about blowing up the white house. but i know that this won't change anything. >> lots of the things said, the dopey, yes, even the incendiary like madonna's comment are protected by the first amendment. i do think it's a stupid thing to say but i don't think madonna will blow up the white house, although it is, indeed, true, there are others who act on things they hear like the guy in north carolina who showed up at my neighborhood pizza joint because he read on the internet the ridiculous conspiracy theory that hillary clinton's campaign was running a child trafficking
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network in that pizza joint. i go there often. i only see families and pizza. while the first amendment is vast, there's a line which brings me to this. secret service agent o grady posted on her facebook page she'd rather do jail time than take a bullet for president donald trump. that's my line crossed. whether you're for or against president trump, that's the job of the secret service. at least for those on protective detail. so, that agent should be fired. yeah, i know. she backed down on it but she crossed that line. not only has she said she won't do her job, but that is the kind of serious message that could taint the secret service. that's very dangerous. p.s., i really hate it when women are bad role models. one step forward, two steps back. thanks for watching from philly, see you tomorrow night right here at 6:00 p.m. eastern. if you can't watch live, set your dvr live and follow me on facebook @greta. "hardball" with chris matthews is starting right now.
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wall power. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in whaug. the cornerstone of donald trump's presidential campaign was a promise to secure the southern border with mexico. and build a wall. in his very first speech back in june of '15, trump drew fire for this talk about the people crossing the border illegally. >> when mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. they're not sending you. they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems.

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