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tv   MSNBC Live With Kate Snow  MSNBC  March 22, 2017 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT

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traveling to the uk or actually born and bred in the uk who may have verged off and sympathized in some ways with radicals, somehow made contact with people who have traveled to syria and iraq, somehow become inspired through their online content or other ways by attending sermons or public lectures of people who are trying to inspire or radicalize people. mi-5 is really good at this. they have identified a lot of people who would fit that category and they have stopped many attacks. it's important to note, brian, that isis has not conducted a successful attack in the uk, if today's attack turns out to be isis-directed or isis-inspired, this would be the first. brian? >> and that investigation is proceeding. jeremy bash, thank you very much. the 3:00 hour has arrived here east coast time. you see nighttime has fallen in london, as we are covering this ongoing aftermath from what is certainly being treated as a
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terrorist attack involving a car. so far, a single assailant, a knife and so far, including the assailant, four dead, three not including the assailant, 20 injured. we know from the government of france that some of them were high school students. at the same time, we are covering this story in this country here's devin nunes, chairman of the house intelligence committee. >> to keep you fully updated on what's happening with this investigation. today i briefed the president on the concerns that i had about incidental collection and how it relates to president-elect trump and his transition team. and the concerns that i have. as i said earlier, there will be more information, hopefully by friday. the nsa is cooperating very, very well. and lastly i'll say that the reports that i was able to see
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did not have anything to do with russia or the russian investigation or any tie to the trump team. with that, i'll take a couple questions if you have them. >> a quick question. why is it appropriate for you to brief president trump given his own administration or campaign are associated as a part of this investigation? is there -- >> because what i -- because what i saw has nothing to do with russia and nothing to do with the russian investigation. has everything to do with possible surveillance activities and the president needs to know these intelligence reports are out there. and i have a duty to tell him that. >> will you be drawing colusions before it was completed, chairman? >> i'm not drawing any conclusion. i'm just telling t president what exists in intelligence reports. >> the subjects of surveillance under fisa orders? >> it appears so. i don't want to get into too many details. these were intelligence reports. and it brings up a lot of
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concerns about, you know, whether things were properly minimized or not. but i will tell you, i've only seen some. it's in the dozens. but i don't have addition we don't have the full scope of all the intelligence reports that were produced. or who ordered the unmasking of additional names. >> are you -- >> we're hoping to get that. yes? >> are you saying the surveillance, if it wasn't related to russia or anything like that, that it was political surveillance of political opponents as the president has suggested in his tweets? >> what i -- what i've read bothers me and i think it should bother the president himself and his team because i don't -- i think some of it seems to be inappropriate, but like i said, until we get all the information to the committee, it's hard to -- it's hard to really say until we see it in its -- >> mr. chairman, we knew there was some incidental collection
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because lieutenant general michael flynn was caught up talking with sergey kislyak. does this go beyond that and does this qualify as the sorted of wiretapping the president was tweeting about? >> well, it definitely goes beyond what happened to general flynn. now, of course, we don't actually know yet officially what happened to general flynn. we just know that his name leaked out but we don't know how it was picked up yet. that's one of the things we asked for in our march 15th letter, was for the nsa, cia and fbi to get us all the unmasking that was done. i'll tell you, nsa is being cooperative. un, so far the fbi has not told us whether or not they're going to respond to our march 15th letter, which is now a couple weeks old. >> again, does this seem to sdwrib what the president was talking about, talking about, quote, wiretapping, which they then said was breerd suoader surveillance. >> what i've read seems to me to
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be some level of surveillance activity, perhaps legal, but i don't know that it's right and i don't know that the american people would be comfortable with what i've read. but let us get all the reports and -- >> chairman, was the president correct in what he tweeted? >> it is possible. >> mr. chairman, the president that president obama tapped his phones. >> no, no, no. that didn't -- that did not happen. i've said this for many, many weeks, including the day -- the day after, a couple days after in front of the press, that never happened. so, that never happened. >> did president obama order any kind of surveillance of the president, president-elect? >> well, we don'ten who sent the taskings. if the taskings were changed into what went into these intelligence reports but we're going to try to find that out. >> mr. chairman, did you have
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permission to put out this information today? did the justice department give you the being on to talk about this? >> the justice department doesn't have anything to do with this. this is information additi-- th information that was brought to me that i thought the president needed to know about incidental collections where the president himself and others in the trump transition team were clearly put into intelligence reports that ended up at this white house and across a whole bunch of other agencies. and i thought it was important for the president to know this. that's why i briefed the speaker this morning. and i came down here as soon as i could. >> mr. chairman -- >> hold on, yes, sir. >> how many people are you seeing in these reports? and do any of them currently work at the white house for mr. trump? >> yeah, it -- i don't want to get into the specifics of it. look, we only have -- i was only able to see a few dozen. of which i think a lot of it does have foreign intelligence value. so, let's not -- >> reports or --
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>> there were dozens of reports that i was able to see that we're hoping the nsa, fbi, cia, will provide, because i know they xis, so i want them to provide them to our committee so that all the members have an opportunity to see what i've been shown. >> chairman -- >> yes, sir. >> what did the president tell you after you briefed him? >> i think the president is concerned and he should be. i think he'd like to see these reports. i hopefully -- hopefully when we get them, hopefully they'll get them to the white house also. >> mr. chairman, do you believe the president appropriately used the word wiretapping? was it used correctly in his tweets based on the information you have seen? >> well, look, i think the wiretapping, if you use it generally, like the president has said, you know, he clearly -- you know, he used it differently than what a lot of people took it which is did obama wiretap trump tower, which we know didn't happen. the president has been clear on that. >> the physical act of wiretag,id youee that -- >> no i said that on day two.
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>> mr. chairman, can you rule out the possible senior obama administration officials were involved in this? >> no, we can't. >> chairman, given you said there was a fisa warrant approved by a judge, are you concerned essentially you're saying members of the trump team were in contact with people who were the target of a counterintelligence or some form of investigation? >> no, i think you'd be -- no. i think you're reading too much into that. what this is, this is normal intelligence reporting. it's just normal intelligence reporting. the question is, is should he himself or others, should they have been put into these reports? and i don't know -- i don't know the answer to that yet but we're going to try to get to the bottom of it. >> your issue is the unmasking, not that there was this monitoring? >> there's two issues here. there's the -- there's additional unmasking of names, which i think is totally inappropriate. but we have to get to additi-- t
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know how many names are unmasked but i know there are additional unmaskings that occurred. then you have the additional names put into these intelligence reports that we have to get to the bottom of. this is why we sent the letter two weeks ago and we need a response to. >> can i just clarify and ask three things. are you suggesting mr. trump's communications are in those reports, first? second, are you saying that you're concerned enough that this would trigger a different, separate investigation? third, why did you not discuss this with the ranking member before you came to the white house? >> so, yes, no, and i'm going to be meeting with mr. schiff at some point to talk about where we go with this investigation. but i had to brief the speaker first. and then i had to talk to the cia drishgt, tirector, the nsa and i'm waiting to talk to the fbi director because he has not told us how he's going to get this information and then i
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talked to all of you, not you yourselves, but those that exist at congress, then i voted, and en i said i was coming here to brief the president. and i'll be glad to -- >> mr. trp's communications, you believe, are in the reports that were -- >> incidental -- >> by fisa, you're concerned enough about it but you're not calling for an additional investigation? >> we are investigating it. >> you said, no, no -- >> no, incidental -- because we're already investigating. we're not opening a new -- >> it has to do with russia and you're folding this addition. >> it has to deal with the unmasking of names and whether this was gathered properly. >> an ongoing investigation you thought it was appropriate to come and talk to the president about? >> just remember, we have had an ongoing investigation into russia for a very, very long time and all of their activities. we have the scoping document of the russian investigation. and we will continue to investigate anything and everything else that might be caught up in this because, clearly, we are concerned about what ends up in intelligence
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products, why, and whether or not there was unmasking. >> mr. chairman -- >> i'm going to have to get back to the capitol here. >> monitors can you say what he was communicating about or who -- >> no. no, i can't get into that. i'm sorry. >> you also said somebody brought you this information very recently. can you tell us who brought you this information and -- >> i can tell you this, that we've been asking for people to come forward. and it was addition they came through the proper channels. they had the proper clearances. and i'm just going to leave it at that because we have to protect people who came forward in the right manner and got the information. >> to be clear here -- >> i'm not even going to say it's one person. >> you talk about this being collected incidentally but has nothing to do with russia. are you saying these could have been conducted as part of a criminal investigation, a criminal warrant? >> no. >> how do you -- >> because i read -- in the dozens of reports i was able to see, i was able to determine
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that it was -- it looks like it was legal collection, incidental collection, but then made itself into intelligence reports. it has toeal with fisa and there are multiple warrants but nothing criminal. i have to go. hold on, i'll take one more question. >> was the information looked at in real time or information that was collected, held, stored and then allowed to be looked at later? >> it was -- it was -- it was fairly quickly, from what i -- from what i've seen. you know, we have to -- once we get the reports, we can ask more questions of the agencies that produced the reports. i have -- >> legal collection, what is it that you find inappropriate about it and are you -- >> because -- >> are you attempting to give the president political cover for his wiretapping? >> because we -- the reason we do this, and we have all these procedures in place, is to protect american citizens who are incidentally collected.
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and so there's certain thresholds that have to be met to make it into foreign intelligence products. if something else happened where it looked -- it appears to me like there were things that maybe they didn't meet the minimum qualifications, i don't know. but there are things to me that don't meet the level of foreign intelligence value. if that's the case, you have to ask yourself, why did those end up in reports? >> just to clarify, this is not intentional spying on donald trump or anybody in his -- >> i have no idea. we won't know that -- >> you've said it's incidental -- >> we won't know that until we get to the bottom of did people ask for the unmasking of additional names within president-elect's transition team. >> when you said legal and incidental, that doesn't sound like a collective effort for spying. >> i would refer you to -- we had a similar issue with members of congress that were being picked up in incidental
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collection a little over a year ago. we had to spend a full year working with the dei on the proper notification for members of congress to be notified, which comes through the gang of eight, and that's -- i would refer to you that because it looks very similar to that. that would be the best way i can describe it. >> was his name unmasked? >> i won't get into tha but i have every indication it's clear who's in these reports. >> i have to get going. have i to vote. >> the unmasked names, would it be people within the intelligence community -- >> we don't know that yet. we don't know who the unmasking and then it would it would have been disseminated to. thank you, guys. [ inaudible ] >> i'm fine with the health care bill so i don't have to talk to him for a while. >> that was devin nunes, the head of the house intelligence committee. let's go ahead and show you the
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people we're about to lean on to explain to us just what it is we just saw. kelly o'donnell, kasie hunt, jeremy bash, malcolm nance. malcolm, of the four, you've probably gathered the most and dealt with the most intelligence reports of anyone. we what did we just witness? >> well, i'm not sure. i mean, you know, i've spent many years wearing headphones and i've been involved in incidental and targeted collection. but i was quite confused about the terms he was using. at one point he was saying names were involved addition were seen in intelligence product. well, that's true, because if your name is donald trump and you're running for president of the united states, your name's going to be mentioned in just about every document in the world. that product can be unclassified. that product can be confidential
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all the way up to top secret if they collect it from another source that's not a united states citizen. that does not -- that's part of collection. your name is part of a foreign product which can be a newspaper or news report. it will be left in there. where your flame is masked is if there's a fisa warrant or intelligence product coming from another nation or another source and it says, you are a person "a," u.s. persons one, u.s. persons two, and then they strip that off and put your real name into a surveillance report. i think he was talking about two entirely different things here. someone can go to our little intelligence internet and type in the word "trump" and come up with 500 products that mention donald trump as part of the election coverage and collection by foreign agencies and diplomats, which is difference from surveillance where we put a mark on you. surveillance aspects are
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collecting against you or another target and your name comes up and we put u.s. persons one, u.s. persons to. two different subjects all together. >> let's speak english here. he could not have injected more suspicious into his remarks. he wanted to be on television because if not, there are ways of getting you into and out of the white house. he took five, six questions after saying he had to go. so, what do you think this is all about? >> well, again, i'm quite confused. i'm sure everybody who's watching is confused. what i notice right off the bat was he was telling a person --fy listen to his words, who may have been an intelligence collection target or incidentally collected by an intelligence target that they were caught in traffic. you do not do that. you don't go and tell someone who might be collected under a fisa warrant because he appeared to say that there was a fisa warrant. but by doing that, he is sort of spoiled the entire game.
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if there is a target amongst that group that is part of the investigation, they have now just been given ample early warning that they need to get lawyers. >> jeremy bash, the president is at the top of the intelligence food chain. in this case the administration is also, by the way, under investigation. how can the chairman of a congressional -- a house intelligen committee be in receipt of something, and he used words that made it sound like almost a whistle-blower act, talking about more than one individual, using phrases like come forward. what do you think this means? >> brian, i served as chief counsel of the house intelligence committee, and i think in 40 years of their existence, since post-watergate with the church and pike committees that emerged from those scandals, i have never heard of a chairman of an
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oversight committee going to brief the president of the united states about concerns he has about things he's read in intelligence reports. the job of the committee is to do oversight over the executive branch. not to bring them into their investigation or tip them off to things they may be looking at. and i've got to believe that other members of the committee are horrified at what they just witnessed. this is a chairman who is supposed to be doing an impartial, bipartisan investigation of the president and his inner circle. instead, he goes and basically tells the president and his team everything he knows. it's very concerning, particularly when what he is saying is that the collection was lawful, court ordered by lifetime federal judges against valid foreign intelligence targets, that the reports generated by the nonpartisan, nonpolitical intelligence community were of foreign intelligence value. and then he goes and tries to make this into a political cover
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story for the president's tweet storm two saturdays ago and potentially reveals to the president things about the committee's existing investigation. this is a true breakdown, brian, in the entire oversight process. >> kasie hunt on capitol hill, i'm invoking the shiny object rule because this -- where is schiff? where is comey? where is admiral rogers? i imagine people are going to react across the spectrum, to jeremy's pot, starting with fellow committee members, starting with the ranking member from california. >> reporter: i think, brian, it's very clear that the ranking member, and i have not spoken directly to him at this point yet, but those around him were rattled by what they saw today. and it is, as we were talking about a little earlier, unusual for the intelligence committee to -- in either the house or senate, to conduct business this way. it's typically something where it is designed to be bipartisan. and it is, as jeremy bash was
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saying, an oversight responsibility that came out of scandals that had occurred throughout the intelligence community. so, that role is much different here in congress than the typical kind of partisan breakdown of many of the other committees charged with writing legislation. so, we'll see what schiff has to say once they have processed this information. it sounds like nunes had indicated there that he was going to at least share this with congressman schiff once he comes back here up. may see members of congress walking behind me. they're about to start another vote on the house floor. so, that will be our first chance to catch up with some of these members about what we have learned from devin nunes. it really does sound as though -- i don't want to say this report appeared from thin air, but it came through channels that are not typical or have not been typical in the course of this unfolding investigation into russia, the meddling in the election and also related any trump contacts with russia and that counterintelligence investigation. that has been something where you have had bipartisan members
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sitting in a room talking to jim comey or bipartisan members demanding that jim comey show up and talk to them in a room. devin nunes does seem to be frustrated based on this new information he's received. with comey for not being forthcoming. it was initially democrats who had that frustration. but the reality here, this is a lot of innuendo. it kind of muddles a story that's already very muddled. brian? >> kasie hunt, here's the president's comments on this. >> with that, let's get going. thank you all very much. [ inaue ] >> i somewhat do. i very much appreciated they found what they found. but i somewhat do. [ inaudible ] >> what did they find? >> thank you very much. >> all right, so let's explain what we just saw. that's the cabinet room at the white house. the president was asked kind of
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an unintelible question as the press was being escorted out. the best we have is he was asked if he feels somewhat vindicated by nunes, what he had to pass along by coming to the white house. you heard the president say, i somewhat do. this is important because if you're going to attach a partisan moment, a partisan motive, rather, to the chairman of the house intelligence committee for coming down to try to help out the president and the white house, which has been hanging out there, having made an accusation, using the term of art, wiretap, saying they were wiretapped by the previous administration, nunes injected a lot of suspicion. nunes gave a kind of motive to this. nunes appears to have information that others don't have. we're curious to hear about the director of the fbi, the director of the national security agency, we're curious to see if nunes has shared this
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with other members of the committee. so, kelly o'donnell standing by at the white house. anything we're missing or you would add from what we just witnessed? >> reporter: well, brian, i think its also important to remember that devin nunes is new to this role as being the chair. he's also been out front in support of donald trump, a member of the transition team, and certainly a supporter of the president. he has raised so many questions that will now draw out others in the intelligence community to need to respond to them. so, far from putting this to bed, they've opened up new tributaries of this story and have given the president a bit of lift, however clouded it may be, that's something that is really remarkable. also noteworthy it was nunes standing alone, without the typical situation where the bipartisan ranking member would be side by side. brian? >> kelly o'donnell at the white house. let's speak further english on this. the effort at the white house is
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to find enough to vindicate what the president said on twitter that he was somehow, and he used the word wiretapped, that he was somehow wiretapped, and they're trying to make that mean incidental intelligence by the previous administration. a quick break. our live coverage continues. ♪ ♪ everyone deserves attention, whether you've saved a lot or just a little. at pnc investments, we believe you're more than just a number. so we provide personal financial advice for every retirement investor. (singsong) budget meeting. sweet. if you compare last quarter... it's no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with no artificial preservatives, flavours or dyes.
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it is hard in just a sentence or two to sum up what we've been witnessing these past few hours. we are in special coverage, breaking news converage because of what happened in london. late today our time, this afternoon our time, and that is being branded and treated as a terrorist attack. three dead, in addition to the perpetrator, 20 injured. what appears to be a solo driver of a car who took a sharp left turn on a bridge across the river thames, crushed some people there, injured a number of people there. exited the vehicle, took off on foot, was taken dow by poce, by guards, as he tried to enter the grounds of parliament. all of it happening underneath the tower there of big ben.
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that's the london eye ferris wheel on the left. that was stopped in its tracks earlier today. but night has fallen in london. as you see there, about 7:30 local time. then we were in our last hour of coverage when suddenly the republican who shares the intelligence community in the hou house, the focus of our attention all damon as the head of the fbi and nsa came to testify before that committee, he says he is now in receipt of information. it's intelligence information that he found alarming enough to go down to the white house and brief the president. not traditionally the role of the chairman of the house intelligence committee. he has a lot of other people he reports to, republican members, ranking members, the democrats, mr. chschiff from california, t congressman we've come to see a lot of. he has an fbi director and nsa
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director who are going to be real interested in what he came to tell the president about, what the president or the president's people were caught up in that's part of some incidental intelligence gathering. central question, is what he has discovered at all confirmation of the president's tweets? is there wiretap evidence? we use that word as the president did. wiretap evidence. he was asked that question and answered no, but he could not have injected more suspicion into what he's discovered in the few minutes he strolled outside the northwest portico and addressed the white house press corps outdoors. kasie hunt is following all of this, at least i hope she is. this is getting tough to follow. up on capitol hill. kasie, to extend and amend our conversation over the last hour, thing of the number people just where you are who are really anxious to hear what devin nunes
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has discovered and told the president. >> reporter: i think that's right, brian. foregive me if you caught me looking at my phone. we're trying to get a sense here of what in particular the -- i'd like to hear from a democrat who has seen this information. because i do think this seems to be one of those situations where there is a filter, and you've seen this particular kind of pattern play out with adam schiff and devin nunez at the same microphone, they take the same set of facts and interpret them differently. that's the political layer to all of this. while the investigation has been bipartisan, and they both at this point said they have faith in the other one. schiff has said he still has faith in the bipartisanship in the investigation. i wonder if he'll still say that after learning the chairman went to the microphones, the
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president of the united states, the all republicans before he shared this information with the chairman. and i think we will learn from what he has to say. it's possible the suggestions that mr. schiff will make upon seeing this information could be similar to the ones we're hearing from mr. nunes. but i think that it's a critical piece of information we understand from a different point of view what exactly is included in these documents because i think mr. nunes -- we tried to nail him down in his first lengthy press conference on the hill. he was initially asked, were the president's communications swept up in -- bit intelligence communication in these fisa process. he said yes. i pressed him and said, are you saying the president's personal communications were swept up in this? and then he said, well, we don't actually know that. 's possible. so, we still, i think, are at a stage where even the chairman, who is offering this new information, doesn't necessarily
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have complete information. and as you know in this world we have been living in since president trump was elected and then took office, this is a tinderbox we're living in and he has certainly lit a fire, brian. >> kasie hunt on capitol hill, where things are moving fast. thanks. jeremy bash, former chief of staff at dod and cia is with us. so, jeremy, is what you're saying that this looks like a member of congress is trying to gather up air cover for the white house and the president and is what you're also saying this should not be the role of the republican chairman of the house intelligence committee? >> yeah. i'm also saying the intelligence community conducts surveillance of foreign targets based only inside the united states on a court order. so, for the chairman's allegation, which is essentially that it's political surveillance to be true, everybody would have to be in on it. federal judges would have to be in on it.
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the professionals at the nsa would have to be in on it. what i suspect this really is, when looked at by the committee, this is really going to be regular collection of targets due to lawful surveillance orders that have foreign intelligence value that has incidentally references to or some communication of some americans. that happens all the time. i guess i would say, this is a nothing burger, brian. in is really regular order for the intelligence communication. when it is disseminated its only disseminated when there's reason to know. everyone who gets this information has to have reason to know if it has foreign intelligence value. if it were so sensitive, so important to national security, he would have shared it with his democratic colleague and they would have decided what to do about it. instead, he goes down to the white house, tells the president about it and says, hey, president, i just served you up
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something you can use to politically confuse and defend yourself from your tweet storm two saturdays ago. in is shameful. this is a breach of the hallowed tradition of the intelligence community as overseer of executive branch activities. they're the eyes and ears of the american people. most of what the intelligence community does is in secret. the american people rely on this committee to give them a sacred trust up. learn our secrets and you watch the executive branch on our behalf. >> jeremy bash, thank you. malcolm nance, our intelligence expert, is there an effort under way to take advantage of the ignorance on the part of all of us, on the subject of intelligence collection and what it looks like at the other end? >> well, it's serious -- that's a very clearly political question, but with regards to the intelligence community, obviously, there is. donald trump made a statement two weeks ago where he said the former president of the united states carried out wiretapping on trump tower. that was a very specific language. i know people don't want us to
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use specific language. but within our world, that is a very serious charge. it is very serious accusation because systems and people and laws must be in place or must be broken to do that. but to say that, perhaps, you know, went on our little intelligence internet and saw a reference to donald trump, an intelligence product, which could be coming from all oefrt world, including news media reports, i mean, at the end of this program, i'm sure brian williams will show up in someone's intelligence report. >> so will malcolm nance probably. >> yes. but that is not collection. that will not validate or give you coverage for wiretapping. there was no wiretapping and certainly this report of intelligence product with donald trump's name or his staff's name on it is just exactly what we would expect to see in everything. barack obama probably has about
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20,000 references in our intelpedia and all the rest of our products there, too. i think he is doing this to give him cover and i think he's just disqualified himself from being involved in any investigation. >> how to put this in household rms. y sll fireplace ashes on your rug at home and vacuum them up, you're probably goingo get those ashes back in the vacuum. you're probably also going to get carpet fibers and anything else that may be in your home. >> absolutely correct. >> i didn't know how else to put it. we'll take another break and our coverage will continue, both this story and the scene overseas in london that took us on the air in the first place. every tv doctor knows that when preparing for surgery,
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we are back. nighttime has fallen in london where our attention was yanked there this afternoon with word of what is being treated as a terrorist attack. it began with a single vehicle veering across lanes of traffic on a bridge. it hit several pedestrians. three people dead, one of them another addition the assailant
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was killed. from there what is believed to be a single assailant ran around the corner and tried to gain entry through a gate, beyond which houses the members of parliament. brian dillon is with us from london. former operational head of scotland yard's firearms command, involved in counterterrorism and contingency planning and developed strategis for exactly this type of thing. mr. dillon, considering that, considering the drills you oversaw and all that london has been through, did everything work today? >> well, yes, i think from what we've seen in the reporting so far, we can have a degree of confidence that all of the plans of the emergency services operated as anticipated. i think we should take some comfort from the fact and on this difficult day, if there is such a thing as comfort to be found, in that london is
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prepared. probably one of the most well-prepared cities in the world to deal with terrorism. only in the last six months the mayor of london commissioned an independent review for preparedness of a terrorist incident and that found the services were geared up and prepared to respond to all types of eventuality. what we've seen today is a very swift response to a very difficult, demanding and sadly tragic incident unfold on our streets. >> we keep saying, swift response may undercut what happened here. this was a car until it became a weapon. and the difference between those two things was a swift turn of the wheel. that's all. >> yes, that's absolutely right. what we have seen in recent times is terrorists still have an aspiration for the large, spectacular events such as 7 slash 7 in london, the madrid bombings and, of course, the
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atrocities in new york in 2001. but all it takes is intent. the intent to use everyday objects to cause fatalities, whether that's a knife or as we've seen today a vehicle. and that's the really difficult thing to mitigate against. because we cannot, in a free and democratic society, liv in a fortress and properly stop all of those types of things. ineffortably, sadly, sometimes these things will strike home and casualties will be caused. >> are you still convinced as to the concentric rings of security around the compound that houses the center of british government? >> yes, i think we've seen in our history, which in this country, sadly, because of irish republican terrorism in london going back many decades now, authorities have developed a very sophisticated security apparatus to keep our people
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safe. the ultimate sharpened of that, it will always be, flesh and blood, police officers on the streets, putting themselves in the front line, really, to deal with harm's way when it comes to them. that's what we've witnessed today. >> final question. do you addition do you applaud the decision of the house of lords and the house of commons to sit as scheduled tomorrow? >> absolutely, yes. london doesn't bow to terrorism. london not bowed to hitler and his bombs in second world war and we're never going to give into people who wreak havoc on our streets. i support what they say, parliamentary is open because that's what we have always done and always will. >> brian dillon served as commander on eu counterterrorism working across europe and extensive experience in the uk. brian, thank you very much for
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being with us. our condolences to you and all there. correspondent matt bradley has made his way to a camera as night has fallen in london. matt? >> reporter: thanks, brian. as can you see behind me, a lot of this is cleared out. there were police officers and other emergency vehicles coming in and out to my left and right when i was here a couple hours ago. all that is gone. all that's left is news media like us and the entire area has been more or less evacted. but as we addition some of our guests have been noting, the sight of so many police officers who are heavily armed is really rather alien to downtown london. if you remember last year, 600 officers with weapons, with actual arms, real, live bullets were and added to the downtown ranks of police. that's unusual for a place where security is not seen. where you liv, in new york, can you see armed men. with military fatigues carrying
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long rifles. that is just not seen here. i think we can expect in the coming days and years that that sort of thing is going to be more and more frequent, especially as the spectre of terrorism kind of -- comes upon london, just as it has across so much of europe. >> matt bradley, if there's any solace to be taken, we've seen the flashing lights come to a halt for nighttime there in london. another break in our coverage. we're back with more right after this. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation if my plans change. visit booking.com. booking.yeah. where's the car? it'll be here in three...uh, four minutes. are you kidding me? no, looks like he took a wrong turn. don't worry, this guy's got like a four-star rating, we're good. his name is randy. that's like one of the most trustworthy names! ordering a getaway car with an app? are you randy?
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higher! parents aren't perfect, but then they make us kraft mac & cheese and everything's good again. we'll take our good news tonight in small shred and a shred just came from london where the lockdown has lifted for those housed in parliament, including camilla tominey from the "express," rejoining us from london. you're finally being allowed to exit the building? >> i am, brian. at moment i'm staring at the scene where this happened. we have benenes courted from whe we were kept and walked into the parliament building. on my right i can see the crime scene all taped up. there's an ambulance here with
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back doors open. i can see scene of crimes officers and forensic officers completely dressed in white from head to toe. the area where the incident happened has been taped off and, indeed, now a large tent over the area. can still see the remnants and paraphernalia of paramedics equipment here, whole area swarming with police, all taped off. there are still some ministerial cars parked here. presumably they haven't gotten out since the happened happened just before 3:00 p.m. london time people. there are hordes of people now being evacuated through the precinct past the crime scene and into another room where the police are waiting to take witness statements . >> and camilla, tse buildings where you were housed, the buildings next to you, more or less survived the blitz, london we know will survive this attack. but it was so odd and so random, i'm sure tomorrow there will be
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echoes of it as people try very hard to go about their day. >> indeed, brian. i mean, as you know in new yorkers know what this feels like. there hasn't been a major incident like this in london since 2007. the motion of the heart of our democracy having been attacked, we call this place the mother of all parliaments. it's where we make our laws and where we try and make sure that justice is done and that strikes fear into erin, not just people in the capital, but around europe and america and around the world. equally hearts going out to the poor policeman. probably a bobby on the beat that we all said good morning to as we came into this place to do our work. the notion shed here and on the streets, apparently that's being witnessed by school children on a school trip from france. and you know, catastrophic scenes have unfolded here in afternoon. that i think will leave london and the country, if not the world reeling.
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>> camilla tommy, our thanks, we're sorry for what you and that city have been through today. thank you for getting back in touch with us. kiir simmons, a question for you as london base correspondent who happens to be visiting here in new york. ka mill laughs talking about the bobby on the beat. the ark typical london cop. are they still to this day unarmed? >> mostly. they are still unarmed, yes. there is a unit of scotland yard who are the armed officers. and they would have been plenty of them around parliament as there always are because this is such an important place. and frankly, such a target for something like this. and then, there are roving units if you like of that same team, that same scotland yard team who are ready to move in case there is a terrorist attack. and they areost ready in the exact area where this took place. so, on the face of it, you could
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walk through london and see what looks like a kind of traditional british policing. and that's part of the way that britain is policed. is you know, not -- don't make it obvious. you know, look as if it's a very passive way of policing, but honestly, this particular place where we've been discussing, there's downing street, there's buckingham palace with the queen, who was there. there's the houses of parliament. the list of potential targets goes on and on. and just, just the very fact that this attack itself was witnessed by one of the most senior police officers in london. he just happened to be there. that tells you how high risk this was and how much -- how much concern and fear and panic there would have been in the early stages as this played out. and they tried to figure out whether this was one person or more than one person. i just wanted to comment, the discussion erp having earlier, brian, about how much protection should there be? there is a lot of protection,
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but what this demonstrates is that a lone, if it is that, and it looks like it is. a lone attacker can just target innocent civilians around a place that is high risk, and if that person manages to injure and kill a number of innocent people in this area, it still gets the headlines, even though this person wasn't able to get into house parliament, wasn't able to attack british lawmakers and british democracy. >> here's what else we know about this, the streets of london are among the most photographed in the world, a, by the people who visit every day, and b, by surveillance cameras. they have really set the modern standard for urban surveillance. so we'll know a lot more. there will be imagery we're not allowed to see, but investigators will have. we can assume that at some point in the next few hours, police will be entering an apartment, somewhere in europe, someere, perhaps in london, with a battering ram. with the assistance or not of
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the landlord because they'll have an identity. they'll have a phone. they'll have electronic records, they will know before the close of business tonight whether or not this person, this suspect, this perpetrator, has been to websites, has received electronic orders or at least was influenced by an outside entity to do what he or she did today. single suspect dead. three others dead. the number of wounded put at around 20. we'll be back at the top of the hour. our live coverage will continue. (vo) love. i got it. i gotcha baby. (vo) it's being there when you're needed most. love is knowing... he's the one. (vo)...it was meant to be. and love always keeps you safe. we're fine. (vo) love is why we built a car you can trust. now and for a long time to come. the all-new subaru impreza sedan and five-door.
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and then, out of nowhere, what is being pursued as a terrorist attack in london, overseas today, three dead, 20 wounded, not counting the attacker. to cover all of it and take over the next hour of our coverage, i'm joined here in new york by steve kornacki, steve. >> thanks were brian. good afternoon, everybody, i'm steve kornacki. again, live here in new york. it is day 62 of the first 100 days for donald trump as brian just said a particularly busy day today. topping our agenda right now, new intelligence. >> this is information that was brought to me that i thought the president needed to know about incidental collection where the president, himself, and others in the trump transition team, were clearly put into intelligence reports. >> within the last hour, the chairman of the house intelligence committee going to the white house with what he says is new information about surveillance and to members of the trump team in 2016. a very big story developing as
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we speak. also on the agenda, only plan a. >> there is no plan b. there is plan a and plan a, we're going to get this done. >> the clock is stiticking to a vote on the house. would that bill be pulled before it even gets to the floor? also we are following the latest on the attack in london. >> all i could hear is bang, bang, bang. like loud. >> there was bodies literally -- must have been about ten. >> at least ten. >> 10, 12 bodies. >> it was horrendous. absolutely horrendous. >> at least four dead and 20 injured after that attack outside of parliament in london this morning. is it terrorism? all of that, much more, a lot we are following throughout this hour. we begin though with our top story, the clock ticking to that vote in the house. do republicans have the votes to pass their obama carrey

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