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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  March 23, 2017 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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>> that's a rap for us. i'm alex witt alongside ayman mohyeldin and luis burgdorf. "morning joe" coming your way right now. >> do you feel vindicated coming over here? >> i somewhat do. i must tell you i somewhat do. i pretty much appreciated the fact they found what they do but i somewhat do. >> the committee has still not received the intercepts off on other information that the chairman was referring to and, therefore, it is really impossible for us to evaluate any of the merits of what the chairman has said. but i can say this, the chairman will need to decide whether he is the chairman of an independent investigation into conduct which includes allegations. potential krooncoordination or s a surrogate of the white house because he cannot do both. >> welcome to "morning joe." you are taking a look right now
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at the capitol of the united states which is the center of so much attention. i've got to say in my most quarter of century involved in american politics, i can't remember outside of the beginning of a war or an election or even impeachment. i can't remember a day when so much happened in so many different directions. we are going to be here all morning, three hours, to sort it through. willie, i think this is -- i think we are going to need a bigger boat. i think we need six hours to cover everything that was going on there. you heard the president saying he felt somewhat vindicated. why? i'm at a bit of a loss, because last night, they trotted out a lot of people on fox news in o'reilly's show and a lot of them still believe the president's was just false. they are trying to sort through,
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but that is something completely different than what barack obama, you know, going over and tapping trump towers. but that said, you have that story. you have the president's lowest approval ratings ever. you've got trump care on life support. boy, we have got hundreds of things going on today and it's tough to sort through it. plus, the big news that cnn broke last night about the trump principals that are now being investigated by the fbi. >> and a terrorist attack in london yesterday on top of all that. a wild day and all of those stories continue this morning. >> did we mngs thaention that? the terror attack in london which is awful. >> we have boris johnson with us this morning so we will talk a lot about monday. it is thursday, march 23rd. mika has the day off. with us is mark halpern and washington anchor for bbc world news american katty kay and
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former director for ted cruz 2016 presidential campaign and msnbc political contributor, not that man. rick tyler. harold ford did not work for ted cruz, i don't think. harold ford jr. is also with us. nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt and reporter for "the new york times" mike schmidt. cnn has a report that sources anonymous u.s. officials claiming the fbi has information that indicates associates of president donald trump communicated with suspected russian operatives, possibly to coordinate information to hillary clinton's campaign. cnn is the only news outlet that with information. the cnn story is exaggerated is told and nbc news cannot confirm the store one way or another. this comes as new polling from
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quinnipiac university shows president trump's approval rating at 37%. 56% disapprove of his job performance in that poll. among the republicans the president's rating has dropped two points the last two weeks to 71%. >> the biggest impact has to do with what is happening tonight. when the republicans decide whether they are going to stand by a president who, right now, is under a cloud. his administration under an investigation on russia. and you already see in those poll numbers, mark halpern, a ten-point drop even among republicans there. we had the gallup poll out the other day that showed even down to 37%, 38%, 39%. "the wall street journal," his no faithful follower since he was sworn in, now saying that he's acting like a drunk, talking into a bottle of gin.
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you have the wall street supporters collapsing. business people being concerned. how does all of this play in to what is going to be, we think, the big story tonight which has to do with the president's health care plan and the support on the hill. >> to be clear i think the journal said an empty bottle of gin. >> an empty bottle of gin, i'm sorry. >> so much what we knew -- we knew if trump won, a lot of unorthodoxed things would happen and what is happening, for instance, with the intelligence committee and the chairman we will talk about that. you have interest groups weighing in on both sides and you have got an administration working with the readship to try to get the last few votes and they seem to be casting their lot with trying to get the conservatives won over. they will lose more moderates if they do and have already lost some. no doubt that the president's approval rating, as well as the questions of his credibility, are making this tougher. the leadership says he is a strong closer. but the appeal to say my
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presidency is on the line, this has to happen, i think, is not winning people over. they are actually having to make changes which is going to make it tougher in the senate if they do get it through the house. >> so we will be, of course, talking about that entire vote, willie. again, all of this happening yesterday. a continued distraction and you can see the damage that tweet, that original tweet caused and even some of the shenanigans that went on yesterday with nunez doing something that no intel chief -- intel chairman has ever done. with don't we get that that story right now. republicans and democrats alike that i talked to, john mccain last night, everybody said the man just blew apart any hopes of an independent review of the trump/russia ties. >> mccain and others calling for a select committee because of the actions that david nunez took yesterday. the man leading the
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congressional investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election held a news conference yesterday to reveal what he called some significant developments alleging he had received information about intelligence surveillance involving the president-elect's inner circle. >> i recently confirmed on numerous occasions, the intelligence community collected information in the u.s. citizens involved in the trump transition. details about u.s. persons associated with the incoming administration and details with little or no apparent foreign intelligence value were widely disseminated in a community intelligence reporting. i have confirmed that additional names of trump transition team members were unmasked. none of the surveillance was related to russia or the investigation of russian activities or of the trump team. >> is the president also a part of that [ inaudible ].
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>> yes. >> they were? >> so, wait, wait. when we talk about intelligence products here, we got to be very careful. from what i know right now, it looks like incidental collection. we don't know exactly how that was picked up. but we are trying to get to the bottom of it. >> the president of the united states has personal communications were collected in incidental collection, not in specific targeted collections? >> it's possible. we wents knon't know until we g information on friday. look. i think the nsa is going to imply. i am concerned. we don't know whether or not the fbi is going to imply. >> chairman nunez then went to the white house to brief president trump on the information he had received before discussing it with other members of the intel committee. nunez spoke with reporters again. this time on the other end of pennsylvania avenue.
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>> why is it appropriate for you to brief president trump given its hin own administration or campaign associates that are a part of this investigation? doesn't it appear to be interference of some form or have the potential for that? >> because what i saw has nothing to do with russia and nothing to do with the russian investigation. it has everything to do with possible surveillance activities and the president needs to know that these intelligence reports are out there and i have a duty to tell him that. what i've read bothers me and i think it should bother the president, himself, and his team, because i think some of it seems to be inappropriate. >> was the president personally involved? >> is it directed to what he tweeted? >> it is possible. i think the wiretapping if you use it generally like the president has said, he clearly used it differently than what i think a lot of people took it
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which was did obama actually wiretap turump tower, i think te president is clear to that. no, no. in the dozens of reports i was able to see, i was able to determine that it was -- it looks like it was legal -- legal connection, incidental collection, but made itself into intelligence reports. so it has to deal with fisa and multiple number of fisa warrants out there but there is nothing criminal at all involved. >> mark halpern, this is one of the most staggering things i've seen. donald trump tweets something outrageous about president barack obama. he said that he was sick. he basically committed a felony. he tapped trump towers. barack obama did, specifically. and it was illegal. a good lawyer could get a case against him. and then the past three weeks,
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he has trashed his administration because he has done that. he trashed, of course, barack obama. he trashed great britain, our closest allies. now he is trashing the intel committee. because you heard the house intel committee chairman saying that obama didn't tap donald trump, that there wasn't any specific surveillance of donald trump, and that what was intercepted is what we have all been saying could have happened now for three weeks, incidental collection. this just continues. and now any hope of an independent investigation on capitol hill has been blown up. nunez blew himself up yesterday, as did -- i mean, he also blew up his house intel committee. he feeds right into the hands of republicans like john mccain saying we now need an independent investigation. have you seen anything like this before? all of your years of covering politics? >> i haven't.
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i haven't. it's hard to find the right words to describe this because it's against so many policy things that are important. for the chairman of the intelligence committee to have these two high profile press conferences make a big show of briefing the president on executive branch intelligence information, it's inexplicable. the people on capitol hill are looking at this and says not only harms the house intelligence committee but undermines people's confidence in the entire process. the notion of congressional oversighted and notion of confidentiality. no reason to do this that serves the public interest. everyone i've talked to in both parties are stunned by what he did. >> if there had been anything new here and, so far, there ising in new here, mark. but if there had been anything new here and if you were to believe what people inside the trump white house, what they are saying, that it's going to come
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out that there were incidental -- there was collection from incidental targets, but then they were used improperly down the road. let's just take the white house's argument. trump still was lying about barack obama. but let's just say they have a good argument that the intel community played fast and loose and then used the information they incidentally collected improperly. even if that were to be proven down the road and they had an argument that the intel community played fast and loose with the information that they gathered leltgally, which everybody is saying you still go to your ranking member and say we got something that i feel like we are going to have have to hold a hearing on friday and we need to call the committee together and get them the information. that's how it works. even if he had anything. >> correct. you don't hold press conferences. literally the last person should
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be doing this is the chairman of the intelligence committee. the standards that he used to do this were inexplicable and kasie hunt, let me ask you. what happens next with the intelligence committee? what happens today now that the chairman has done this and created a break between him and the rank this member? >> i think the first question here is, honestly, the chairman raised way more questions with this than he even came close to answering. and the way -- i talked to him after he came back from the white house trying to clarify before the ranking member adam schiff was about to go in front of the cameras whether or not he is showing this information to the ranking member. he told me he doesn't have it in his possession. he had gone somewhere to see it and look at him so it was unavailable for him to provide to democrats. in order he still briefed paul ryan and the press and the president on this before talking to adam schiff. the way that nunez chose his
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word, i think, created a lot of confusion as well. i've talked to a couple of intelligence experts behind the scenes who were confused about the basic terminology he was using to describe what he was seeing. i asked adam schiff about it age he had had a conversation with nunez, where nunez had described some of what he had seen. again, reminder, adam schiff has not, as far as we know or hadn't when i left capitol hill late last night, seen this information but i pressed him on what it was that nunez had described to him he had seen to try to get a sense where democrats might be on this. take a look. so did he explain to you more about what exactly it was that he had seen, he didn't see names? this list? >> well, it appeared that most of the names were masked and the issue the chairman took was that he could still figure out who the people were even though the names were masked. that's not an indication that they were improperly masked. so, you know, the issue may be
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that the chairman needs a briefing on the masking procedures, but nothing what i heard from the chairman indicates there was any kind of improper foreign surveillance. >> reporter: did the chairman say anything to you about the source of the information that he was provided? is it credible in your view? >> he did not want to disclose -- >> michael schmidt, mark halpern noted any reason to give two press conferences would be to protect the president of the united states. we should point out it's just interesting that david nunez was on trump's transition team as he moved into the white house after he was elected president. can you think of any other justification for the actions he took yesterday? >> no. it doesn't make sense but if you look at the larger picture, it's even more curious. on monday, director comey drops the bombshell opinion a counterintelligence investigation into the trump campaign.
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nunez spends the next several minutes talking about leaks and complaining to them to the administration. on wednesday he stands up citing anonymous sources and begins to talk about very sensitive fisa information that is classified. it really doesn't make any sense that why else he would be doing this than diverting attention from the other things that have gone on with mr. trump in the past few days. >> so harold ford, you served in the congress. what would you be thinking this morning if you still there? >> i think today paul ryan will give a press conference and it will be interesting to hear if kasie hunt's chronicle on this is correct, that he briefed paul ryan first. i think paul ryan is going to have a tough question and probably will come from nbc reporters saying did you keep him on the intelligence chair? before that, why didn't you stand with him if he was going to vindicate the president of the united states in some way? two, there is now there has to be an independent counsel now for the intelligence chair, to
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joe's point, i'm only 46. i only served in congress ten years. i never saw anything like that and reading of history never seen anything like that. he has to step aside. if he believes firmly in what he has he should produce information and step accede and let an independent council look into this. it should come out is this normally when you have this kind of intercept. there was someone gathering this information in trump tower who was under surveillance and must have been some incidental collection but does this happen if you're in a building or place like this and someone is under surveillance? you don't want to leave an impression in the public's mind this was intentional when it was clearly not. i will be watching ryan's press conference whenever it may be. >> today. >> for two questions. one, what did you think when you heard this? and when devin nunez said he was going before the press to make this clear and go to the white house to share with the president, did you give him any advice? and if he did give him advice to do that, perhaps paul ryan
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should be called into question. i know paul. i doubt he suggested this because he didn't stand with him. the second question has to be are you going to remove him from the intelligence chair position? and/or are you going to recommend an independent counsel yourself? >> you tweeted what harold said yesterday, joe. you said at this point, all of the appearances are that he cannot be nunez impartial in this now that he has briefed the president of the united states and that he should step aside as chair. >> i completely agree. even if something is found down the road, rick tyler, that the masking of the names were not done in accordance with how things have gone in the past, this is yet another embarrassment for our party, the republican paerlt. you now have people on tv. i heard somebody last night saying none of the republicans -- that's not true. john mccain is stepping up calling for an independent counsel. lindsey graham has been calling
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for an independent counsel. chuck grassley told comey he was not going to approve somebody for his department until he came and testified and told them the truth about the obama tweets and the russian investigation. you have -- there are good republicans that are standing up and saying we want to gept to the bottom of this, but what happened yesterday in the house of representatives with nunez, i mean, it's an embarrassment for the entire party. we always look at 2006 and people think the republicans lost 2006 to nancy pelosi just because of the iraq war. there were a lot of things going on like this. a lot of improprieties going on that denny hastert was mishandling at the time which, of course, led to our defeat. this is just something else that just doesn't smell right and it's never happened before and it hurts the party.
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don't you think paul ryan and republicans need to step up on this maybe after the health care vote and say this was inappropriate? we have got to get confidence back in our intel committee. >> i would absolutely say that, joe. what is interesting to me and what kasie hunt just reported is nunez seemed to have gone to ryan first and i don't quite understand why ryan would allow him to go to the white house and why this would be played out. the way this looks is terrible. it's very difficult to discern what the motive was because everything he says -- i understand it's intelligence but it's sketchy. he had to know and going before the press. either ryan should remove him or remove himself. >> one thing about this incident is that it does reveal how damaging this credibility gap, the president has caused in the white house over the last two months has become for him. the fact that we are all thinking that this must be for political reasons, that this was to give the president some kind
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of face saving off ramp is an indication of how we are now thinking about this white house. maybe he is aiming directly at that 10% of republicans who are starting to disapprove of the measure and hoping this face saving measure will wash with them and think the president is right and his approval ratings amongst his base will start to pick up again. it really points to this white house's credibility that created by this president. >> but the thing is, willie, again, let's underline here are the facts. even if you listen to what o'reilly said last night with bob woodward on, seeming to carry the president's brief for him, and then you listen to pete king who was on supposedly in defense of the president and then charles krauthammer coming on and talking about their concerns about what was going on. concerns were legitimate.
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i totallynd them. let's have the investigation. we can't have it through the house committee now because nunez blew that up. even if that is the case it doesn't change the fact that everybody on o'reilly's show last night, everything that nunez said still says, bottom line, donald trump lied about barack obama when he said that he tapped his phones in trump tower. he lied about that. he's never come off of that. nunez and everybody else around him are suggesting that the president has come off of that claim. he hasn't. donald trump called obama sick. and he said a lawyer could build a case against barack obama. none of that has changed by anything that has come out yesterday. so i'm not exactly sure what nunez thought he was accomplishing when he blew himself up politically, when he blew up the intel committee and the house politically.
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and by extension, i think damaged paul ryan and the credibility of the entire house of representatives. >> yeah. as a face saving measure it wasn't a very effective one because it didn't prove anything that donald trump had said in that tweet where he does explicitly say that president obama had wiretapped trump tower. we have only scratched the surface of this. we want to get to the deadly terror attack in london. officials carried out a series of raids in london and birmingham, england, in connection with the attack. seven people have been arrested there. police say the attacker struck pedestrians on the city's westminster bridge before crashing his vehicle near parliament. the man they say armed with a knife and tried to enter the government building before he was shot and killed by police. in the end, an additional three people, including a 15-year veteran of london's police force, were left dead. about 40 more were injured. joining us from london is nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely with the latest. bill, good morning. >> reporter: good morning.
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from london, a city shaken, but defiant people, parliament. the prime minister demonstrated this attack will not change the way this country works. that is westminster bridge behind me. a new footage has emerged of the man in the vehicle accelerating across that bridge. you can actually see a woman jumping off the bridge and into the river before he crashed into parliament behind me and stabbed an unarmed police officer. as you say, there have been raieds this morning here in london but mostly in birmingham, that is about 200 miles north of here. it is a city with a large muslim population. we don't know anything more other than seven people have been arrested. as for the man, himself, police, anti-terror police say he was on their radar. they do know who he was, though, they haven't released his name yet. and that this was islamist
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inspired and low tech terror using a car and a knife as a weapon. now, he was a lone attacker is what the prime minister said. we don't know any more about him. we don't know whether he had returned from iraq or syria or whether fs a lone wolf. intelligence officials will tell you here and elsewhere, there is no such thing as a lone wolf. someone must have known what he was about to do. we believe he may have hired that 4x4 suv in birmingham, but we don't know if he was from there. people have sealed off this area and helicopters in the air and prime minister will give a statement in parliament later this morning but the mood is one of defiance here. back to you guys. >> strike at the heart of london. bill neely, thank you very much. this is a technique we have seen over the last two years or so in berlin at christmastime, in nice as well ramming the vehicle first and creating mayhem in the
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process. >> it shows how difficult this is for intelligence services with one car and a couple of knives, an individual. even if you had people who knew about it, it seems an individual carried out the attack can bring one of the great cities in the world to a standstill and strike at the heart of the democratic institutions in london. we were unbelievably lucky the numbers of people killed were not much higher in london yesterday, but it shows that these kinds of attacks, we are never really going to be able to stop them totally, we are not. as they get attacked in raqqa they will launch more of these attacks and the london mayor was criticized by donald trump jr. said it ride this is a fact of living in a western city at the moment and yesterday, the they responded brilliantly in london and went in with the police forces and shut it down very quickly. they stop attacks like this all the time that we don't hear about. every now and again they don't get lucky and this is what happened in london.
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still ahead on "morning joe" this morning, we are going to get reaction from british secretary boris johnson before he chairs the u.n. security council this morning he will join us here on set with an exclusive interview to talk about what happened yesterday in london and a lot more. plus how will the health care vote end? we get house insight from steny hoyer and thomas massie changing his vote from a no to a hell no. is truth dead? we will talk about the trump presidency's precipitation with the facts. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. knowing where you stand has never been easier.
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seven years ago today, president obama signed the affordable care act into law. as of this morning, votes are still scheduled for today to repeal and replace much of it. while the president and house leadership team appear to be
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short of the votes they need right now, there appears to be movement toward a deal. the last nbc news vote count had 29 republican no votes. if 22 republicans vote no, the bill is dead. the president and vice president met with members earlier in the day yesterday and speaker ryan and his leadership team met late into the night with skeptical moderate members like charlie dent of pennsylvania who earlier in the night, announced he was a no. congressman dent, by the way, will join us on "morning joe" at 7:30 this morning. and conservative member thomas massie will be our guest in the 8:00 hour. he tweeted out yesterday that he is changing his vote from a no to a hell no. but last night, mark meadows, chair of the house freedom caucus, indicated after speaking with the president by phone, that the log jam with his caucus members was beginning to break. >> i'm really optimistic that we can get there. i mean, there is still a lot of details to work out. the president and i came to an agreement in principle. i think what we are trying to do now is to make sure that -- that
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our agreement is actually something that can be executed in a way that passes the senate. so there is still work to be done but i can tell you that the president is all engaged. >> the president is set to meet with the house freedom caucus again today. majority leader kevin mccarthy says they plan to walk off the floor with a bill passed by 7:00 p.m. today. >> ha, ha. >> that is mark halpern's laughter and he'll explain. koch brothers american for prosperity and freedom partners are offering up millions of dollars in a reserve fund to republicans who vote against the house health care bill. freedom partners has branded it obamacare 2.0. joe, that pits the koch brothers versus the president of the united states and paul ryan who are trying to get this bill done by 7:00 tonight according to kevin mccarthy. >> you can't say whether you're working with the trump team that, hey, if you don't support this bill, we are coming after
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you. and we will make sure nobody gives you money. the koch's sort of "trump" all money that trump could raise against any of these people voting against this bill. mark halpern, you laughed at them getting this bill done by 7:00 tonight. it seems mark meadows sounded yesterday like he was folding like a rusty lawn chair last night. >> i think it's more the accommodation they are making and substantial changes in the bill make it impossible to get through the senate and, obviously, be difficult. i'm only laughing at the 7:00. i suspect this will go further into the evening as they don't have the votes. harold you and i focused on can they get the votes or not. i'll a little bullish on their chances than you are. explain in the end how members are on record saying they are no and how do they spich to yes if the white house needs some of them? how do you do that?
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how do you make that switch? >> you explain something you want or something you didn't want was accommodated. i heard mark meadows. it took him a long time to say yes. when you ask somebody aes or no and they give you a 750-word answer they are ill figuring out how they are going to get there. the koch saying they will fund those who vote against it i think is going to be interesting. we will let the day play out. i think the news this morning with david nunez, i think the questions the speaker will have today and i think play into this somehow. the bottom line is the freedom caucus is opposed to the medicaid expansion. what have they won from the president or heard from the president to change their mind on that? then you have to wonder when it gets to the senate, what happens? i'm still not convince the defendant gets out of the house today and for the leader mr. mccarthy who i like and respect say it's out by 7:00 p.m. is something to note. if you have the votes why wait until after the evening news?
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we will have to wait and see but i'm not at buggish llish on thi >> kasie hunt, that deadline set by senator mccarthy is 12 hours. what will change between now and then to get that freedom caucus vote? >> it's going to be a busy 12 hours. the main policy discussion they have been behind the scenes are called essential health benefits and rules in obamacare that require insurers to cover certain things, maternity care. i think one you want to focus on as we try to count these votes is substance abuse because of the opioid crisis. it is something that a lot of, in particular, senators are concerned about, essentially the freedom caucus wants to strip this away and say insurance companies don't have to cover these things they could offer cheaper plans and cover fewer things. look. i think two key dynamics here. one that relates to the president and these conservatives, can the president break the backs of these conservative groups? heritage action, the koch
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brothers, all of these. this is the dynamic has frustrated and why boehner resigned abruptly one day and a real problem for paul ryan and what the president grappling with. the moderate members charlie dent from pennsylvania is somebody who wants to be with the speaker, but at the end of the day, if they change this too far, it's basically going to put all of these moderate members -- these are the people who are really at risk of losing their jobs if they vote for this and suddenly people in their district can't get health care. frankly if they let too many of them go, this bill is still going to fail. so they could cut this deal with the freedom caucus and still potentially have a big problem. >> here is a message. first of all, if you are a moderate like charlie dented and you vote for this bill, you know and i know that people in your district are going to lose health care coverage and you're going to lose votes. moderates, there is nothing they can do for you.
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there is nothing they can do for you that will save you from your voters if you vote for this bill. now, rick tyler, on the conservative front, i have been -- i spent most of my time in back rooms trying to stop people from waffling and folding the pressure, and i know the sound of somebody's resolving broken in half sounds like. and it sounds a lot like mark meadows last night on i'm not scared by the president threatening me, but we are really close here! >> joe, can you give us that imitation one more time? >> meadows -- gwynne i have been -- harold was there when i was fighting gingrich day in and day out and those who were trying to keep taxes down and we could tell when guys were groh going to break and do the
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breaking to the speaker and bow down to the speaker and the president. after hearing meadows crack last night, it sounds like this thing is going to pass. >> it may pass and you're right. i think this is an opportunity where the freedom caucus, if it's going to -- what is the reason to have a caucus, right? is to have political weight on capitol hill to get something done. what are they actually going to get done? it's still in the end the whole thing is a muddle. this bill, even if it does pass and even if it goes to the senate and they change it, which they are likely to because otherwise it won't pass the senate, and then it's going to come back and what are they going to go back and say? in the end, it's obamacare and that is what they are going to end up with. >> and they have already called it, rick, how do -- we say this is conservatives that have run conservative districts or have run campaigns for conservatives. if you call something obamacare light enough and then the president threatens you, and
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then you fold the next night and you vote for something that is obamacare light, you're right, it's going to go to the senate and it's going to come back even worse from the senate than it is now. if they fold here, mick mulvaney already folded and stories of how mulvaney betrayed the freedom caucus. now if meadows betrays the freedom caucus and they fold again, you're right. what is the purpose of having a freedom caucus? >> not much. look in the end. this is -- if -- look. this president doesn't have -- in other words, when speaker gingrich goes up you would be in the room and he said i've been for you and in your district and this is what we work for and the vote i need. i don't think this president has that. he has not been in the trenches. >> doesn't to hm price and mike
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pence have that? >> they don't any more, mark halpern. when you're inside that room -- i know. when you're inside that room, you can tell you're either working for the machine or you're working for the cause. and the second tom price goes and works in the white house, he is on the other side. the second, you know, mike pence, as much as they love and respect mike pence, he doing donald trump's bidding. he is doing the bidding of a lifetime democrat. and so for these guys in the districts that they are in, there's nothing those people can say to them, other than maybe threaten them like trump threatened meadows last night or yesterday. those guys can't speak to him. they just can't do it. it's either the bill is either obamacare light or it's not obamacare light. >> joe, this is what i don't understand. how does he threaten meadows and get the squeaky voice response from meadows when meadows is in
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one of the safest seats? it seems to me the freedom caucus in the safest seats and the people who have to worry is the truss group and you can't propose something that will satisfy both of those. you can't satisfy tuesday and freedom caucus at the same time. >> let knme tell you something. i'm sitting here today in -- what year are we in? 2017? >> ruffoughly. >> a quarter of the way. >> in 1993 when bill clinton needed one more voteor his tax increase, he called the guy that represented my district from air force one. and my guy knew it was the guy that was representing my district. the democrat knew that if he voted that way, that it was going to be bad news for him. but he couldn't say no to the president. and so he voted for the tax increase. it passed by one vote. and he started campaigning for congress as a 29-year-old. and i was outside of his office every day because of that vote.
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and i just -- i always wondered through the years, willie geist, if that phone call from that president was really that -- was really worth it. and that is what all of these freedom caucus guys have to proif is just because the president is calling asking for something that betrays what you have told your district you were going to do for them, i mean, is it really worth it for them to go back on everything they believe in? it was obamacare light yesterday, it's that today. >> they are not trying to convince them it's a perfect bill. the argument they are making vote this down today and what do you think is going to happen tomorrow? because tomorrow the affordable care act is still the law of the land. >> but that is the stupidest argument. that is the last refuge of the desperate speaker and president. you know what happened tomorrow if you vote it down today? you go to committee! you make a better bill! you go through the process!
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and instead of trying to rush this through the way they tried to rush this through, you actually listen to the conservatives and say, let's build a better bill. this is not an all or nothing choice. why, there are how many days? there are 400, 500 days until the next election. that is just the dumbest choice that political leaders make. we have to vote for it today or else we fall off a cliff tomorrow, it's the end of the world. it's not. there is always tomorrow. there is always a committee hearing. they can actually stop, slow down, do this the right way, and pass tax reform and regulatory reform while they are working on a better bill. they won't do it but that's what they should do. >> jim jordan on the show yesterday, the founding father of the freedom caucus and he said he couldn't voted for it as matter of principle. it violates everything he believes about government and the way it should take care of people. hard to believe that in 24 hours, enough could be changed
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to sign that bill and have him compromise his principles or that would meet his principles that quickly. we will talk to a lot of members who have to take that vote today this morning on the show. also ahead, developing news on yesterday's deadly terror attack in london. the prime minister theresa may just addressed parliament and confirmed one american was injured in the attack. we will keep an eye on that story. boris johnson will join us on set for an exclusive interview. joe biden returning to capitol hill. we will have some vintage biden for you ahead. "morning joe" back in a moment. it's an important question you ask, but one i think with a simple answer. we have this need to peek over our neighbor's fence. and once we do,
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give me a grade on president trump so far. >> oh, semester is not over. i think he's got a lot of makeup work to do. >> did your administration wiretap the trump tower? >> five or six times. are you joking? are you serious? are you serious? >> what is your reaction of the allegation from president trump? >> a great deal of humor lately. so one of the things that president obama and i have decided, we still keep in touch with one another is, you know, we have to give this president
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an opportunity to just sort of get his sea legs and, you know, give him a chance. but it's getting -- you know, it's getting down to -- it's getting down to the wire here in term of whether or not he is going to really take charge. the idea that i'm told i'm not sure this is true, you would know better, but i'm told that secretary of state decide he is going to go visit putin before he goes to the nato conference? what the hell are we doing? >> that is former vice president joe biden returning yesterday to capitol hill to rally against the republican health care bill, talking to mark halpern. john heilemann, among others. fighting the trump administration on not one but two, but three fronts. health care, immigration, the white house budget proposal. democratic governor of washington state is jay inslee
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joining us here. >> good morning. >> we have heard from republican governors like john kasich and john brewer and rick snyder that the medicaid expansion rollback the next couple of years proposed in this bill would be devastating to their states. how did is it it hit yours? >> it hits states led by republican and democratic governors. in my state, 600,000 people would be thrown overboard on health care. these are people with cancer, respiratory problems, veterans, seniors, kids with long-term chronic disabilities. and they would be simply thrown over, 600,000 people and that is six super bowl stadiums full of people that today in the house might be tossing them off of kor coverage. i think the governors understand the personal consequences of this and the financial ones as well because it will bust our budgets. >> what would you have to do to make up that gap of the uninsured?
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>> we would have to win the lottery in an irish football league or something. it's 6.5 billion out of our budget and we don't have that right now and states across the country are having tough times. this is not only a personal disaster for 600,000 people but an economic disaster for our state and a betrayal of the trump voters because this is essentially taking money out of the pockets of lower income people over a thousand dollars for those who are in the lower echelons, and giving thousands of dollars of tax relief to higher income people. when trump voters find this out, when they find out about that betrayal, there is heck to pick and i hope some of these republicans are thinking about that tonight. >> governor, fountain bill goes down in the house there is at least some discussion of the notion maybe the president should work with democrats in congress and democrat governors should try to fix it. what are two things about the status quo you think need fixing? >> there's always things to fix.
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we have had such robust success and cut our insurance rates in half and 150 plans being offered. we have cut the medical inflation rate from 16% to 6% so we have had so much success we don't want to displace that but some things we think we could do to produce more predictability for the carriers so their bidizing more stable over time and we don't have a roller coaster approach to premiums. there might be things we can do to provide more stability in those markets but, again, i will say in my state, we have had stability. we have had significant reduction of cost and the coverage is amazing. 750,000 thousand people between the exchanges and medicaid who, today, if you get cancer, it's a big deal. i spoke to a small businesswoman in washington, never had affordable care and finds a lump in her breast. goes in and gets it check because she had insurance and she is a cancer survivor today.
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she basically said, yeah, maybe this is not a perfect bill, but i'd be dead without it. so the fact that this is not a replacement, it's a displacement. they are displacing 600,000 people in my state and we will speak vocally against it. >> governor, good to see you again. one insurer in most states and it's like a monopoly in 33, 32 states. first of all, how many insurers do you have in washington state in the exchanges? >> we have actually gone up the last couple of years from 130 plans to over 150 plans in our state. and as i've said, we have been successful because we have integrated mental and physical a little bit and found savings getting people out of emergency rooms and into preventive care. we are now tackling this opioid epidemic that we will be severely damaged if this republican plan goes through. everybody in the country now are
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suffering. >> right. >> we are now having some successes with people -- these are beautiful kids who are becoming addicted. the fact that those families no longer have coverage, boy, that's not acceptable to us. >> and i understand all that. i guess my question is if things are going much better in washington state than they are in many other states across the country, even if this bill goes down tonight, actually, even if it passes, as you know, this they are going to take it over to the senate and be negotiating there. what could washington, d.c. learn from washington state if, as you say, obamacare has worked in washington state, as they create a new health care system? what can they learn from the fast few years in pennsylvania state? >> i think that if people learn that you can bring innovation to health care just like you can in software that we have done at microsoft and like in aerospace at boeing, we have brought innovation in the practice of
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health care. we have integrate physical and mental health and makes no sense to divide those. we have emphasized preventive care and now we have coaches to help you improve your weight, your activities, your use of alcohol, and these preventive cares have allowed us to drive down the cost of care. i mentioned this before. we have gone from a 16% inflation rate down to a 6% statewide. this is maegs amazinamazing. 2% inflation rate in our medicaid population. what we have shown if you bring a dose of innovation to the system, you can get better outcomes at reduced costs and washington can show you how to do that. >> i know you have to run. i used to play basketball with harold ford. especially he is not here to defend himself, what kind of player was he? >> as we talked about, as long as you have two balls, one for harold and one for everybody else, then you're fine. just bring an extra ball. >> good defender too, was he? >> he does the wave defense.
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he waves as you go by. >> washington state governor jay inslee, thank you for being here. appreciate it. much more ahead on a very busy thursday morning. accusations that the chairman of the house intel committee is trying to give the president cover on his wiretap claims. we will talk to democratic congressman eric swalwell of the intelligence committee about that. three lawmakers who say they will vote no when the obamacare repeal bill hits the floor later today. not surprised that democratic steny hoyer is against it but charlie don't and thomas massie as well. and boris johnson will join us for an exclusive interview following yesterday's terror attack. "morning joe" is back in a moment. but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. oh yes.... even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee!
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. yesterday in that capitol, you had a lot of members debating what was going to happen with the president's health care plan. that, obviously, on life support. but the president so desperate to stop his political bleeding and slide into the polls, which we are going to be reporting. now down to 37%. that he appeared to get the chairman of the house intel committee to go to the other side of pennsylvania avenue, will willie, and actually blow up the intel house intel committee by holding a press conference in the capitol and holding a press conference outside of the white house and making himself look like a little more than an agent of the president of the united states, which, of course, is something nobody on capitol hill has seen. today lines up as an equally momentous day. >> the chairman of the intel
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house committee david nunez giving a press conference and disclosing that information without first consulting the ranking democrat on that committee adam schiff. adam schiff then gives a press conference and extraordinary day and continues into today, march 23rd. mika has the morning off. with us is mike barnicle and katty kay, msnbc political contributor rick tyler. former democratic congressman harold ford jr. who plays no defense according to governor inslee and the wave defense. joining the conversation is nbc news correspondent katy tur. >>. cnn has a report that anonymous u.s. officials claim the fbi has information claiming that associates of donald trump communicated with suspected russian operatives possibly to coordinate the release of information damaging to hillary
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clinton's campaign. cnn is the only news outlet with that report. a senior law enforcement source says the story has not been confirmed. this comes as new polling from quinnipiac university shows president trump's approval rating at 37%. 56% disapprove of his job performance in that poll. among the republicans the president's rating has dropped two points the last two weeks to 71%. the health care bill that paul ryan and trumped have backed. >> it really does and so much that depends on the president's support and some of the reddest districts across the country. mike barnicle, you see those poll numbers. the president dropping down to 37% this that poll and down 10 percentage points for republicans and down four percentage points since march
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7th. no doubt that the obama tweets and the lies about great britain and all of the chaos that has been going on just to try to defend the president's false tweet about barack obama is starting to have a real impact even among republicans. the gallup survey had him at 39%. the "the wall street journal" yesterday said donald trump is like a drunk talking into an empty gin bottle. wall street numbers are collapsing and about the chaos that is happening in the white house because the president just can't back off his lie of barack obama. >> joe, you just outlined a tsunami of events almost unparallel, certainly in recent american political history. it's overwhelming. yesterday was nearly overwhelming. when you get the chairman of the house intelligence committee, nunez doing what he did people
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listening and watching this morning is tantamount to a prosecutor in a capital murder case and leaning over and telling his co-counsel, hey, i just got to go across the hall and talk to the defendant. i have a couple of tips that might help him out. it's just staggering beyond belief! >> so the man leading the congressional investigation that mike just referenced into russian interference in the 2016 election is chairman of the house intel committee devin nunez. he held a news conference yesterday to reveal what he called some significant developments alleging he had received information about intelligence surveillance involving the president-elect at the time, his inner circle. >> i recently confirmed on numerous occasions, the intelligence community collected information in the u.s. citizens involved in the trump transition. details about u.s. persons associated with the incoming administration and details with little or no apparent foreign intelligence value were widely
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disseminated in intelligence community reporting. i have confirmed that additional names of trump transition team members were unmasked. none of the surveillance was related to russia or the investigation of russian activities or of the trump team. >> yes. >> they were? >> so, wait, wait. excuse me. let me just clarify. the president of the united states, his personal communications were intercepted as an -- >> i think we have to -- yeah, i think -- when we talk about intelligence product here, we got to be very careful. from what i know right now, it looks like incidental collection. we don't know exactly how that was picked up. but we are trying to get to the bottom of it. >> the president of the united states has personal communications were collected in incidental collection, not in specific targeted collections? >> it's possible. we won't know until we get the information on friday.
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and that is why -- look. i think the nsa is going to comply. i am concerned. we don't know whether or not the fbi is going to comply. >> chairman nunez then went to the white house to brief president trump on the information he had received as i said, before discussing it with other members of the intel committee. nunez spoke with reporters again. this time on the other end of pennsylvania avenue. >> what i've read bothers me and i think it should bother the president, himself, and his team, because i think some of it seems to be inappropriate. >> was the president personally involved? >> was it what he tweeted? >> it is. i think the bottom line president trump ended up in intelligence reports and he didn't know about it. >> how is he right when ed
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president obama wiretapped him at trump tower? >> he is not right about that, jake. as you know, i've told you that, i think, many times. >> right but you just said he was right. what is he right about? >> in terms of it does appear like his name and people and others ended up into intelligence reports. so, i mean, look. you can make what you want of it. but most people would say that is surveillance. >> harold, i'm dumbfounded here. i don't know what he is trying to prove. all he said yesterday is what we already knew, that there was incidental surveillance of third-parties that may -- i mean, people have been saying this for months and i'm just curious. if he thought he had anything of significance, why would he blow himself up, blow the committee up, hold a press conference, run over to the white house and go tell the president of the united states?
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it's day trading of the worst sort because if you've actually got something, play it through the system properly. talk to the ranking member and then hold -- hell, if you want to exploit this, hold three weeks, four weeks of hearings on this, leak it out to the press what you may have, and you would get a month of headlines. instead, he just blew himself up yesterday because he is, obviously, doing the bidding of a president who is a political day trader. >> so i couldn't agree with you more. i want to make sure i understand and everyone understands. director nunez, the chair of the committee mr. nunez saw some information. he then apparently according to kasie hunt told speaker ryan who evidently we don't know what speaker ryan said and we will find out today. he then held a press conference after talking to speaker ryan to lay out these anonymous source he he heard about. he was then asked was the president specifically targeted? his answer was we will have to wait nell the end of the week to get information on that.
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i don't want to respond to that because that is sensitive information and while he is doing a press conference stating what he learned about anonymous sources relating to the president's comments he might have been wiretapped and gave no info to the community. this is the intelligence community. not the education or ways or means or commercial committee but the intelligence committee. he then traveled to the white house to share with the president an anonymous sources he had seen or read and had not shared with anyone else that suggest that the president communications might have been intercepted. then he gave another press conference to say he told the president this. then he goes on shows in the afternoon to say that he can't share any more than what he has heard. it's unclear if him the president was right or wrong but he thought the president was wrong saying evident specifically target but he would have information at the end of the week. this is why people have no confidence in government and losing confidence in the congress. i hope speaker ryan can answer the questions what he suggested to the chairman whether or not he should share this publicly. >> we do, actually. we need to know what speaker ryan knew, what speaker ryan was
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told this. and what speaker ryan suggested ahead of the intel committee. >> exactly. >> was going to do. at the end of the day, willie, the bottom line is still the same. donald trump lied about barack obama ordering wiretaps on trump tower. he lied about obama being like nixon, this being like watergate and obama being sick, that a lawyer could hold a case against barack obama for tapping trump tower. they proved absolutely nothing yesterday, except their political incompetence. >> as nunez, himself, said in that interview we played with jake tapper, no, the president is not correct that he was wiretapped by president obama so that was disproven despite all he put out with two different press conferences yesterday. katy tur, let me bring you in on this. can you, we have been trying for now an hour and 12 minutes to think of a justification for this other than to try and in some way to protect the president of the united states, why so so many levels he would
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do it on its face but he would do it without telling, say, adam schiff, the ranking member of the house intel committee. >> i think you would take -- take you longer than an hour and 12 minutes to figure out any motivation than the motivation you just laid out which, in some way, to vindicate the president of the united states. there is no other reason to do it and not to bring that evidence first to the intelligence committee. or to your partner in the intelligence committee, whether or not he is on the same side of your aisle. adam schiff. so this is an effort on behalf of the republican party or at least many in the republican party to try and find a way to give the president of the united states some cover. you see this a lot of times when you're trying to interview a member of the gop on television. a congressman or a senator. you ask them was the president correct in saying that the former president, president obama, wiretapped trump tower and they twist themselves into
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pretzels to try to find a way either to not answer that question or to go around that question and say there is still more investigations to be done, when the fbi director, the nsa head, the former dni, both devin nunez, a coupled and adam schiff, everybody has all said there is no evidence to prove what donald trump said, which was that, to remind everybody out there, president obama wiretapped trump tower, that he did it, that he ordered it, not somebody else in his administration, but that the president, himself, did that. they are trying to find a way to give donald trump some cover on this. >> and that he was a sick bad guy doing it writing about president obama. our next guest speak to president trump yesterday and joining us from washington "time" magazine bureau chief mike sharer. this week's cover asks the question "is truth dead?" can trump handle the truth for
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your title story this week. you talked to the president 20 minutes after the revelation came out and nunez press conferences. what did the president tell you beyond what we heard quickly where we heard him say i feel somewhat vindicated by this. >> he said to me, "it shows i'm right." he did that a number of times. he mentioned "the new york times" story that mentioned the word wiretapping story and not that trump tower was wiretapped before the inauguration. ed he read that headline to me again and says that shows i'm right. he said, again, what sean spicer has said which i used wiretapping in quotes. so suggesting that means something else. it was part of a broader conversation about how he uses falsehood or contested facts to spread information and at every point, he maintained that he had done nothing wrong and would continue to do it. i brought up him saying that ted cruz's father had consorted with
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assassin of john f. kennedy. he said it's in the newspaper and nothing wrong with me saying that. i brought up the claim 3 million undocumented immigrants voted illegally in the last election. he backed off and said they were registered improperly but i'm going to have an investigation and we will find out if it's legal and still standing by that. you know, at every point, the conversation moved from the binary of is this true or false to a much squishier standard which he sees in his own statements and his underlying point was on many occasions, he has said things that people of the press have said are unlikely and proved to be correct. he listed them off. he predicted in a tweet that anthony weiner's sexting would be a problem for hillary clinton and turned out to be one. he listed off a bunch of others. >> you point you about his tweet
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of president obama wiretapping he is incorrect about the information. "the new york times" didn't say what he thinks it said. brett bair did not say what the president thinks he said. another quote he gave you. he said, quote, i can't be doing so badly because i am president and you're not. was he talking about you, specifically, not being president? >> yeah. well, yes. or his critics. he was addressing me, yes. it came at the end of the interview. i come back several times to the question of whether he risked losing credibility as these things that he said were exposed as being false. and i think he was a little frustrated. he didn't say it in an angry way at all but i think he was a little frustrated. previously in the interview he had gone back to the idea that he is not losing credibility because look at the crowd i had in kentucky a couple of days ago. i think he was returning to that same idea here, that he will not admit he has a popularity or confidence problem and his best evidence for that is that he was elected last year. >> he dismisses the polls now.
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another one quinnipiac shows him at 37% and a rasmussen poll has him at 50%. >> let's be absolutely clear and complete here, rick tyler. if everything that nunez says is accurate, or that he implies, end up being accurate, that trump associates and the transition team were swept up in incidental intercepts, incidental surveillance not aimed at them, and then for some reason, the intel community did not mask their names the way they should have and put them in reports, that actually is a significant story and that is a story that we need to get to the
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bottom of. but that still doesn't prove anything close to what donald trump claimed three weeks ago. and so, again, it seems that you have a president holding our british allies, the former president, now the intel community hostage to a lie he told on twitter three weeks ago in a rage. it's just unspeakably bizarre. >> if he did it to cover up look at the extraordinary length that he actually went through and the foolishness that has happened. he brought it out in the cnn interview you saw earlier with jake tapper. nunez mentioned the word surveillance. that fits the definition that sean spicer and the white house has been trying to get us believe that this wiretapping in quotes and another tweet that wasn't in quotes was all about surveillance and this could be the surveillance. now, it could be as simple as the fbi had a fisa warrant on the north koreans who are
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stealing money out of the bank and they mentioned donald trump's name. now the question is why was that name unmasked if it was unrelated? we don't know the answer to that but that could what incidental collection is. incidental collection is simply someone that they had a fisa warrant on and had surveillance on, mentioned somebody's name. that is incidental and he's right, it has nothing to do with the russian investigation, but why nunez would put himself, his credibility, the intel community and the president's credibility at stake is baffling. >> and paul ryan's credibility. >> yeah. joe the other thing that nunez did by coming out like that and not speaking to other members of the committee and you heard him there, questioning whether the fbi is going to comply with this. he hasn't made relation with the fbi any better for the white house and hasn't done that because he is effectively saying we cannot trust the fbi to handle this information correctly. they have unmasked it.
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that might be what comes out of this, but to say it prematurely before you've had that investigation and before the facts are all out there he has tossed a bomb into the relationship. i can't believe for a moment they are happy at the fbi this morning. still ahead, british prime minister theresa may confirms this morning that yesterday's attacker in london was born in britain and known to mi-5 and he previously had been investigated over concerns of violent extremism. this hour we are joined live for an exclusive interview by british foreign secretary boris johnson. last night, republican congressman charlie dent voted no on the republican health care bill, along with three other moderates. said he was going to vote no. is the president's quest to win over conservatives jeopardizing centrists in his own party? the congressman will join us ahead. you're watching "morning joe." this is the story of green mountain coffee and fair trade, told in the time it takes to brew your cup. let's take a trip to la plata, colombia. this is boris calvo. that's pepe.
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spend a lot of time he wouldn't agree with president trump. but this is very interesting. listen to him talk about the founding father john hancock. >> they know that is a signature, because he wrote his name so big and boldly. >> you just said bigly. >> i know. >> ed bigly. that's right. then gore pulled off his mask and said, i told you, it was me all along! >> senator sasse said i just won five bucks that you would say bigly somewhere in this hearing. katy tur, to you. the leader kevin mccarthy says the vote will happen by 7:00 tonight and that might be optimistic. is there a chance in those 12 hours some freedom caucus votes move and the bill gets through? >> certainly a chance. the freedom caucus is going back to the white house today. the white house is giving the hard sell and tasked with trying to get conservatives on board with this bill.
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by our nbc news count i believe 29 no's on this bill right now. that is a mix of both freedom caucus members and moderates. they need anything more than 21 votes means that this bill is going to be sunk. so whether they are going to be able to bring this to a vote on the house floor remains to be seen. i was speaking with representative brat the other day. ed it was optimistic to think this would come to the floor on thursday. he believes there is more negotiating that still to be done. as we saw mark meadows said he was ready to go down with the ship. we will see if he changes his mind, though. after all he will be meeting with the white house and president trump. president trump tried to make his tough sell on this just the other day. a couple of days ago. that did not work. and it's remarkable, guys, to see members of the house walk out of that meeting with the president saying that there's still a no vote on this health care bill, while, at the same time, trying to, again, twist themselves into pretzels to try
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to defend him on the wiretapping claims. there is clearly an area, when it comes to health care, at least, they are willing to break with this white house. >> we did hear mark meadows last night on fox and played the clip earlier sounding a little more open perhaps to voting on this but we don't know what he heard from the president or paul ryan perhaps that might have moved him in that direction but we will see tonight. katy tur in washington, thanks so much. our next guest on the fence about the republican health care billion nil a few hours ago. republican congressman charlie dent emerged from a meeting with speaker paul ryan and other moderate republicans at 11:00 last night only to announce he'll be voting no. congressman dent joins us next to say why. grown man now. i don't want to pry... dad. but have you made a decision? i'm going with the $1000 in cash back. my son...
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now to yesterday's deadly terror attack in london. we are learning new details about the man who carried out the violence there. speaking just a short time ago to parliament, prime minister theresa may said the attacker was born in britain and known to mi-5 and previously investigated over concerns of violent extremism.
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they had no prior knowledge of the attack. overnight a series of raids were carried out in london and birmingham, england, in connection with the attack. so far, eight people have been arrested. police say the attacker struck pedestrians on the city's westminster bridge yesterday before crashing his vehicle near parliament. they say the man armed with a knife and tried to enter the government building before she was shot and killed by police. in the end an additional three people including a 15-year veteran of london's police force were left dead and 30 more were injured. may delivered a defiant message to the lawmakers and the people of britain. >> yesterday, an act of terrorism tried to silence our democracy, but, today, we meet as normal, as generations have done before us and as future generations will continue to do. to deliver a simple message -- we are not afraid and our resolve will never waiver in the
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face of terrorism. and we meet here in the oldest of all parlments because we know that democracy and the values it entails will also prevail. >> she announced an american was injured in the attack as well. in a few moments we will speak with boris johnson who will join us on set for an exclusively interview. back to today's schedule vote on the health care bill. joining us is republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania. following a meeting of moderate republicans last night with speaker paul ryan, congressman dent came out as a no vote on the american health care act. congressman, we appreciate you being with us this morning. why couldn't you get to yes on this? >> well, i feel that there has been too much of a focus on arbitrary time lines and artificial deadlines all to improve the budget baseline. we are talking about the health care for millions of americans here and i think that has to be our focus. i have some concerns about the
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policy in the bill. i've been very up front about that. i felt the tax credits are insufficient for too many americans. i have concerns about the way the medicaid issue is being handled, particularly in the expansion states. i've talked with governor kasich, as well as my governor and i have a proposal from republican governors, you know, saying they need greater flexibility, better resources to serve their populations. and i think we just have not built the necessary coalitions and had the stakeholder support that we need to advance a reform like this. i voted against obamacare seven years ago. so many problems. we need to partially repeal and replace is and retain parts and reform and overhaul parts but i feel this bill misses the mark. >> to your point on the time line a lot of people have asked what you just asked what is the rush. about speaker ryan give you an indication why this vote has to take place tonight without building the coalitions you talked about? >> well, it's been a source of frustration to me.
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. i never quite understood the mad rush. what i believe the issue right now is that the plan is to send this bill over to the senate so the senate can rewrite it and then tell us what is in it and send it back to us. i mean, it seems we are vending much of our authority over to the senate at this point. i think it's important that we get this right rather than get it done fast. >> joe? >> charlie, what is the likelihood this bill passes tonight if mainstream republicans like you have the concerns and conservatives also have their concerns as well? >> well, i don't know. i haven't done a whip count. i suspect if you looked at the numbers now, they are probably a little short. i can't tell you how many votes. but i think it's important, though, we get it right and, like i said, you know, i have said all along that the senate was going to -- was not going to accept this bill as is and pass
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it and what many of us were told a few weeks ago. i didn't believe that one second. we all know the senate is going to overhaul this so i'm not sure why there is this mad dash. i guess today is the anniversary of the enactment of the obamacare and that is more symbolism to me than substance and we ought to get back to the substance of this issue. >> do members that are being whipped, how many of themnd what you understand that whatever you pass out of the house, if it's passed out in a mad rush tonight, it's going to be torn to shreds by the senate and then going to be sent back over and whatever they voted on the first time, they are going to have to -- they are going to be held to account in 2018. do they understand that? >> i sure hope so. because, you know, one of the other frustration i've had too because i'm constantly hearing people over here saying the senate is taking our bill as is
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and consider it and likely pass it. >> no, they are not. >> of course, not. we all know that. it's ridiculous. if i have one more is not tell me this bill is dead on arrival, i think my head is going to explode. >> katty kay, they don't call in the house of representatives, at least we didn't call the senate, the house of lords for nothing. they -- john mccain, i think most concisely summed up how the senate looks at the house. i remember in an interview in the 1990s the house doesn't mat he said and none of the business starts until it gets over here. all of the house republicans running around the senate can take it or leave it. they are going to leave it, right? >> i don't see any way if the president is going to try to satisfy members of the freedom caucus during the course of the next 12 hours, that there is any way they are going to send a bill to the senate that is going to satisfy those senators who
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are worried about peek losing coverage under medicaid expansion and it's not going to happen and why on earth would they vote for something that is going to cause them so much trouble at home? they don't need to. in fact, if they do vote for it, it's going to cause them a serious issue with their own constituents. >> can i interject one issue on the senate? the senate, let's face it, it's a very slow moving body. they have two speeds, slow and glacial. on rare occasions they can move at lightning speed. every day is the same. start slowly and wind down from there. if anybody they are going to move super quickly on this thing, i just don't buy it. >> you should trip the house of lords, congressman. >> congressman, at the risk of making your head explode, you indicated in your statement that you're going to vote no against the current bill because it's going to lead to the loss of coverage and make insurance unaffordable for too many americans, particularly for low to moderate income and older individuals.
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so my question to you is about the internal philosophy of your caucus, specifically a minority within your caucus, the freedom caucus that every time they indicate they might vote against this bill, you go back in to try to mallive them and it's always with a more draconian aspect of the bill. let's hurt more of the poor and let's hurt more of the elderly and hurt more of the people who live in central pennsylvania. what is up with that? >> well, it seems that the movement at the moment is try to offer an amendment that would eliminate the essential health benefits provision under title one and that gets to drug and alcohol and mental health, materni maternity, pediatric services, et cetera. eliminate that and then maintains one of the higher income taxes. but this is a big policy change. and we are voting on this bill today and, for me, this is a big deal. this is going to affect coverages and could affect premiums. i don't know what those impacts are to be perfectly candid with you right now.
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but i said what i said in my statement last night, because i know that when -- i'm in a medicaid expansion state. when that ends for a lot of people and if those tax credits are not sufficient, those people will not get into the exchanges because they won't be able to afford insurance and they will go naked, that is, they won't have coverage and i think there is a problem with that. i had consider conversations with john kasich who are speaking to other republican governors and they have a lot of concerns. they are saying to me that they don't have the flexibility or the resources to do what they need to do to make it right. by the way, they are okay with per capita allotments and block grants, but we have to understand what the baseline will be and what the inflation factors will be going forward. there are a lot of big issues here that i think in my view have not been properly processed. >> charlie, good morning. harold ford. there has been some question and concern, at least it's expressed in the media, that many republicans, including those in the white house, want to see this health care bill advance so
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they can get to the tax issue and if they pass health care, it advantages them in dealing with tax cuts before the congress. first, is that -- has that issue been talked about or discussed within the republican caucus? one. two, whether it has hor not, do you agree with that assessment it is critical to pass health care for congress to get to the tax cuts bill or legislation or proposal in an acceptable wait? >> i agree with what you raised there. there is too much focus on arbitrary deadlines and time lines to improve the baseline to tax reform. no question about that. that seems to be the motivation. i want to say, harold, i always enjoyed playing basketball with you. you would be a evening better player if you ever learned to pass. >> that is tough! charlie, final question here. i'm curious. are you concerned as a lot of republicans in the senate are? were you concerned that the
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house intel chairman held a press conference, ran to the white house, held a press conference outside of the white house with intel information that he had without first going through all of the proper channels and talking to the ranking members and other republicans on the house intel committee? >> i have not spoken to devin about it. i intend to. all i can say is that i was former chairman of the house ethics committee and i have conducted some very sensitive investigations on a nonpartisan or bipartisan basis. the way i always operated is i always worked with my democratic counterpart because i never -- didn't want any surprises and i guess that is probably what i guess raised some concerns is that there was not that dialogue with the other side of the aisle prior to him going to the white house so why i need to talk to devin to find out exactly what happened. but as i said, when i ran investigation, they are very nonpartisan and i really didn't do anything without talking to my democratic counterpart
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because i couldn't resolve the issue without them. >> does the move yesterday, holding the press conference instead of going through proper channels, does that undercut the house intel committee's ability to conduct a fair and impartial hearing on the ties with russia? >> i suspect it will make it more difficult because based on some of the comments he heard from some of the democratic members i think on that committee, that, you know, that's what they are going to charge and so i think it will -- i think the investigation will take on, based on their comments, an increasingly partisan tone and tenor and that is unfortunate because we all are very much upset and disturbed by the russian meddling and hacking in our election and unacceptable and want to get to the bottom of it and if there was any collusion, or whatever the word they are using, we want to get to the bottom of it and if it turns into another big partisan fight, that's not going to advance any of our interests. >> congressman charlie dent, republican of pennsylvania.
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once again, a no vote tonight on the health care bill. congressman, thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. next hour talk to another member of the republican congress who plans to vote no. congressman thomas massie has moved to hell no. first, boris johnson will join us in the studio following yesterday's terror attack in london. the city where he was once mayor. that is next on "morning joe." when my doctor told me i have age-related macular degeneration, amd, he told me to look at this grid every day. and we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression,
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joining us now in the studio british foreign secretary and former mayor of london, boris johnson. mr. secretary, thank you for being with us. our condolences to and all of great britain this morning. what more can you tell bus the perpetrator of this attack? >> as prime minister theresa may said recently in house of commons the last few hours this is somebody who has been known to mi5 and the police but at this stith i don't think there is much more we can say. i think the matter is under investigation. and i think what i can say about the individual concern is the prime minister has said is that
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his values, what he stands for, the thing he attempted to do, his idea of the world will not prevail. and he launched an attack on our democracy as the heart of our democracy as this has happened many times in the last decade, and the values incar nated by that callpalace of westminster continue to triumph. whatever he thought he was doing, will not succeed. obviously, our thoughts are very much with the victims, the families, and with palmer who behaved with absolutely heroism. i think the prime minister got it very well this morning when she said that the house of commons was going to continue its business and around her in that great city, which i would say is the greatest city on earth. the lives of millions of people is continuing absolutely as normal. >> the city of my birth.
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>> you understand my chauvinism of the former mayor of london. >> of course. the prime minister said something interesting that points to a problem with intelligence services, this figure had been a per i have yale figure. they have to prioritize and they clearly did not prioritize this individual. it's happened before with the leader of the 7/7 attacks and leaders under surveillance and not under surveillance. how do we make the choices? >> i understand where you are trying to go with this. this is not something i can get into. suffice it to say that we have in london, as i think is almost
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certainly the case in new york and many other great metropolises, there are a number of people under surveillance and people who are objects of concern. the important thing to realize is that the kind of extremism that they have is dangerous. it, all too often leads to their involvement or would be involvement in terrorist acts and i'm afraid they require a huge amount of surveillance, of monitoring and they move up and down the hierarchy of risk. you'll be familiar with the triage system that intelligence services have. they look at people. they try and work out whether they pose a minimum threat and then they concentrate on those they think pose the greatest risk to the public. i can't comment on that. what i can say is we have superb
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security services and we rely greatly on our cooperation with the united states. that, believe me is a relationship that is very, very intense at the moment. >> mr. secretary, joe scarborough has a question for you. >> sure. joe? >> mr. secretary, the prime minister talked about the great resolve that needs to be shown by the british people. i loved reading the churchill factor. at the beginning, you talked about how so many people were disconnected from britain's greatest prime minister. didn't really know who he was, younger people in great britain. what is the lesson that you can apply from winston churchill's life, what you wrote to the british people this morning? >> the lesson that winston churchill wanted the british people to take from his life and what he stood for, germans
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never, never, never surrender, never give in. we will go on fighting this with our american friends. yesterday, i was in washington at the counter isis and it was very impressive to see the whole, including the muslim world, getting together to tackle this. if we are going to defeat these guys, we are going to have to engage not just military and syria and iraq as we are. crush the dark star that they have created, that absurd, pompous statement they have created, but also to win in their hearts and minds and to stop the stuff on the internet that is corrupting and polluting so many people. you know, i really -- this is something i think the internet companies and the social media companies need to think about.
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they need to do more to take that stuff off their media. the insight mlts, the information about how to become a terrorist, radicalizing sermons and messages. that needs to come down. >> you just said about the intelligence agencies of great britain and the united states, cooperation and it's very intense at the moment. you just came from this conference by rex tillerson. could you talk tohe current state given the recent spat between charges that british intelligence was used to tap into conversations here in the united states? >> i don't want to, in any way to minimize or depry kate the stories you are covering today about the activities of the intelligence but let me tell you this, the relationship between our services and your services is historic, it is massive and
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continues to be of vital importance to the safety of both our countries. it is a very -- it's an intense and intricate and intimate relationship. there are virtually no secrets between the u.s. and the uk. the corporation is very, very intensive. it will go on. >> mr. secretary, you have to run and get to the u.n. in a moe moment, but before you leave, the current mayor of london was criticized widely for saying this is now a fact of life of living in london. this is the fact of life of living in a major international city, there will be terrorism. do you agree with that assessment? >> as i said, there are always a certain number. all the time i was mayor we had people we were monitoring and we were watching and we got to be vigilant. the message is the one the prime
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minister gave this morning. this is a city that is now getting on with its business. all our transportation systems are running. parliament is continuing its work and it is business as normal. that is the -- that is the way to defie these people. the worst weight on terror is to be terrified for a second. we are not terrified and we will go on. >> that's what's happening in the city of london. boris johnson, we appreciate you stopping through on your way to the u.n. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," did the chair of the house, devin nunes kill hope for a bipartisan probe on russia? we'll talk about that on "morning joe."
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which makes his neighbor, gustavo, happy. that's blanca. yup, pepe and blanca got together. things happen. all this for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee. packed with goodness. i recently confirmed on numerous occasions, the community collected information about u.s. citizens involved in the trump transition. details about u.s. persons associated with the incoming administration details with little or no apparent foreign intelligence value were widely disseminated in intelligence community reports. confirmed additional names of trump transition team members were unmasked. none of the surveillance was related to russia or the investigation of russian activities or of the trump team. >> you admit all you have is a
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circumstantial case? >> actually, no, chuck. i can tell you the case is more than that. i can't go into the particulars, but there is more than circumstantial evidence now. so, again, i think -- >> you have seen direct evidence of collusion? >> i don't want to go into specifics, but i will say there is evidence that is not circumstantial. it is very much worthy of investigations. >> this just shows a tremendous chasm between the two senior members of the house intelligence committee. what we need to address this issue of what the riussians did how they did it and the impact belongs in the hands of a select committee. >> not an independent commission, but done on the hill? >> i would agree to a commission. i would probably prefer a select committee, but either one.
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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 out west. bizarre behavior by the house intel chairman. as you heard, even has republicans calling for an independent investigation. new reports coming out that the fbi's investigating the trump-russia alliances, the collusion, now naming specific targets of the fbi, according to cnn. the president suffering through record low poll numbers, 37%. we'll get to that in a minute. also a countdown on capitol hill to a showdown on a vote over trump care. moderates are moving toward no. conservatives are waffling on the fence, feeling the pressure of donald trump. the question this morning is whether they will listen to their constituents, as they said they were going to do or whether they are going to cave to a man
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who is a democrat his entire life, who now, willie, happens to be the president of the united states and trying to push a replacement bill for obamacare. a lot going on today. >> yeah, if we go by leader kevin mccarthy's schedule, he said the vote will happen at 7:00. we are 11 hours away from that. a lot of votes to swing if the republicans are going to push it through the house. mika has the morning off. with us, mike barnicle, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. rick tyler and joining the conversation msnbc anchor and political correspondent steve kornacki and senior political editor ond white house correspond for "the washington post," sam stine. welcome. a new poll shows president trump's approval rating at 37%. 56% disapprove of his job performance. among republicans, the
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president's approval rating has gone down ten points in two weeks at 81%. those numbers come as the chairman of the house intelligence committee, devin nunes held a news conference to reveal significant developments, alleging he confirmed the intelligence community incidentally collected information about american citizens involved in the trump administration. >> the president also -- >> yes. >> wait, wait, excuse me, let me just clarify. the president of the united states, personal commune cases were intercepted? >> i think what we have -- when we talk about intelligence products we have to be very careful. from what i know right now, it looks like incidental collection. we don't know exactly how it was picked up. we are trying to get to the bottom of it. >> the president of the united states, personal communications
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were collected in incidental collections, not in specific targets? >> it's possible. we won't know until we get the information on friday. that's why, look, i think the nsa is going to comply. i am concerned that we don't know whether or not the fbi is going to comply. >> by the way, i said going into that sound, the trump administration, i should have said trump transition. it took place during the transition. heads exploded when i looked around the set. he said to casey hunt to slow down, talking intelligence products as he was holding the first of two press conferences talking about intelligence products. >> he said we don't know this, we don't know that, we are not sure what was targeted, we are going find out more on friday. he went out there without knowing exactly what he was talking about. he went out there without talking to the other members of the committee. willie, it just looked like and
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sounded like from reporting i did yesterday that you had the white house desperate to do anything to change headlines this morning because, again, from the reporting i did yesterday talking to people in the white house, they were so desperate to change the narrative that it looks like they shoved him out with this information, just any information, anything to change the headlines and blow up the investigation in the house. it looks like that is what they did. >> they thought to vindicate president trump's tweets from two saturdays ago. he said that explicitly. this has not done that as chairman nunes said, this does not prove anything true in that tweet. >> right. so last night on fox news on bill o'reilly's show, he has concerns about the unmasking of
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names. charles having the same concern. our friend peter king from out of long island expressing the same concern. these were legitimate concerns. did the intel community collect names properly, legally, through an incidentally but then did they unmask them improperly? that's a legitimate question to ask. if it is a legitimate question, nunes under cut it by the way he trotted out yesterday and willie, as you just said, and as woodward said last night, as charles said last night, as pete king said last night, guys defending trump here, even if that's the case, donald trump was still lying about barack obama. oec even his supporters were saying
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that and nunes who did this bizarre thing to help donald trump change the headlines, even he admitted, as you said, it doesn't change the fact he still lied about barack obama when he said he was a bad man who tapped trump tower. why did he do it? >> it's important to underline that. chairman nunes went to the white house to brief president trump on the information he received before discussing it with other members of the intelligence community. nunes spoke with reporters, again, outside of the white house. >> what i read bothers me and i think it should bother the president himself and his team because i think some of it seems to be inappropriate. >> was the president personally involved -- >> was he correct in what he tweeted? >> it is possible. >> look, i think the bottom line
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here is, president trump, to some degree is right that, you know, he did intelligence reports and i don't think he knew about it. >> how was he right if he said he was president obama wiretapped trump tower? >> he's not right about that, jake. as you know, i have told you that many times. >> right, but you said he was right. >> it does appear like his name and others ended up in two intelligence reports. look, you can make what you want of it but, you know, most people say that is surveillance. >> so, willie, willie, if you are keeping score at home, when he was in the householding his press conference, he said trump wasn't right with his tweet. when he was at the white house -- >> right. >> he said trump may have been correct. when he went back to the house, he said to jake, oh, no, no, no, i said all along trump wasn't
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right with his tweet. he can't even -- it is so obvious that this guy is getting bullied by the white house. i have just never known a house intel committee chairman of either party to be -- to allow themselves to be bullied the way this guy was bullied yesterday. >> steve kornacki raises the question, how can chairman nunes continue and be viewed as an independe independent arbitor given what he did yesterday. >> i don't know what his motive is. i have heard democrats speak out on this, like joe said, this is somebody being used by the white house or doing pr for the white house. the point is, if that's the accusation, everything he did yesterday lends credence to that accusation to not tell the top democrat, your democratic counter part on the committee before you hold a press
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conference. it defies the conventions of that committee and opens you up to that accusation. i can't get inside his head. maybe he has other motivation. maybe he thought that was the right way to do it. in terms of appearance, this gives any skeptic ammunition they need to say this is somebody not acting in good faith. >> in the interest of balance, point out what adam schiff did yesterday. you could see the artillery battle. nunes dropped something and schiff fires back with a hint saying there is more than circumstantial evidence, there were links between members of the trump campaign and the russians, but doesn't spell it out. schiff, frankly, shouldn't have been talking about that either. he shouldn't have gone on television talking about what the intelligence committee is doing. >> that's a great point. adam schiff has maintains, i
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thought, control and composure over the past two, three weeks. he's done a great job trying to be fair and down the middle. there's no doubt about it, you are right. when he said we have more than circumstantial evidence, but i can't really tell you what it is, he stepped over the line. so, they in effect, i understand, you are right. it's like an artillery battle. as john mccain said, sam stein, both of them stepped over the line. obviously nunez seemed what he did was far more egregious. they believe this intel committee and the house are going to be able to conduct a fair investigation on the collusion that may have happened between the trump campaign and russia. >> it's such a bizarre trade off. in exchange for nunes giving donald trump coverage on the wiretap claim, trump is going to end up or may end up receiving an independent committee looking
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into the connections into russia. i don't really see how the white house benefited from all this. >> sam, underline that fact. you are exactly right. if nunez was trying to help trump yesterday, he actually -- this day trading actually makes trump stock fall even more and pushes them even closer to the one thing they don't want, which is an investigation. >> it's not only that, think about what was implied in nunes' statement. what he implied was that members of trump transition team were in touch with foreign powers, agents of foreign powers beyond russia. not just russia now. he said it wasn't just michael flynn, it was other members of the transition team. we have multiple members of the transition team. they were caught in this surveillance. he's expanded the scope of a scandal that was already existing beyond russia, beyond flynn and for the purposes of
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covering trump's tweet of obama and trump tower. >> by the way, sam -- sam? by the way, sam, that's what he may have been trying to do, what donald trump thought he was trying to do, but nunes said, oh, no, the obama tweet is still a lie. he didn't accomplish that. >> it was so poorly handled. it's going to end up costing trump in the long run. if you have an independent commission, nunes, if anything, he is a close ally of the trump white house. we can say that definitively now. he is basically forfeiting his power to control the intelligence committee investigation. suddenly, trump is losing an ally, losing control of the investigation and we have expanded the scope of the possible activities beyond russia and flynn. it's crazy. >> let's get closer to the story. joining us, member of the house on intelligence and ranking
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member of the subcommittee, democratic congressman, eric swalwell of california. correct me if i'm wrong, but in 46 minutes you will see senator nunes. what do you want to hear? >> it's time for an independent investigation. i want to know why he betrayed the independence of our work and also a collaborative group. joe knows that the house intelligence committee is a place you can go and work with republicans or democrats. it's three floors under the capitol. most of our work is done in secret. we have been able to do a lot together. this is a sad departure from a long tradition of doing the people's work around national security and doing it without a, you know, loyalty to the administration. doing it with independence. >> congressman, mr. schiff was very clear yesterday saying he
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was not contacted in any way by chairman nunes before he came out and gave two press conferences. did you or anyone else on the committee hear from chairman nunes before he did that? >> i was not given the information. no other democrat was. from what we understand, no other republicans were given the information. he should have brought it to us first. he never, under circumstances should have taken this information to the president. the president's campaign is under federal criminal investigation for its ties to russia during the interference campaign. they are witnesses, essentially. to take it to them conflicts it chairman out of the duties he has. >> congressman, katty kay brought up an important point that the ranking member, schiff went out and said there was more than circumstantial evidence. now, supposedly that circumstantial evidence would be confidential. didn't ranking member schiff do what we are accusing nunes of
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this morning? >> i want to put it in focus. he was trying to clear up more and more smoke bombs rolled into the investigation. sunday, chairman nunes went on fox news saying there's no evidence of collusion. the next morning the fbi director says we are investigating members of the trump team for coordinating russia in a criminal way during the election. he's trying to make it clear, no, there's evidence here. this is not chasing ghosts or chasting conspiracy theories. the american people need to know this is serious. >> congressman, 45 minutes until the committee meets. what do you do? what does the minority do about the chairman of your committee? what do you do? do you try to get him off the committee? >> show us the information. what are the insurances we can go ahead with an investigation. he owes the american people and
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people on the committee an apology. >> eric thank you, we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> we'll talk to congressmen on both sides of the aisle. republican congressman thomas mass massie says he's afraid donald trump could be a one-term president if it passes and what lies ahead if it passes the house and makes it to the senate. we're back on "morning joe" in a moment. untry booking on choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom... let it sink in. shouldn't we say we have the lowest price? nope, badda book. badda boom. have you ever stayed with choice hotels? like at a comfort inn? yep. free waffles, can't go wrong. i like it. promote that guy. get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed. when you book direct at choicehotels.com.
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book now. donai am going to takey's care of everybody... everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now. announcer: 20 million americans gained health coverage under the affordable care act... ...including millions of our most vulnerable citizens - children, the disabled and the elderly. now, under some plans in congress, millions of these americans could lose that health coverage. the women and men of america's hospitals urge congress to protect affordable coverage for as many americans as possible.
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unfortunately, obamacare is making their lives so much more difficult, as we all know. and putting enormous barriers in the way of helping patients who we are going to help and get this thing done and get it figured out. it's a tough situation our country has been put in. itis not easy. >> i'm really optimistic that we
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can get there. i mean there's a lot of details to work out. the president and i came to an agreement in principle. i think what we are trying to do now is make sure that our agreement is actually something that can be executed in a way that passes the senate. there's still work to be done. i can tell you, the president is all engaged. >> a little bit of optimism from the chairman of the house freedom caucus. joining us now, republican congressman, thomas massie of kentucky. i appreciate you being with us. i want to show the tweet you put out last night. it's been retweeted thousands of times. you moved from no to hell on your vote. what's with the move. >> there was a lot of speculation that republicans might be changing their votes, a lot of arms being twisted. i wanted to let people know my vote had not been changed favorably for the bill. i'm still opposed to the bill. i think it's worse than
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obamacare. >> what is at the core of your problem with the bill? we have heard, there are different corners of the republican party that have different criticisms of the bill. what is your chief concern? >> we are replacing mandate subsidies and penalties with mandate subsidies and penalties. it's like a rocket that's lost its fins. it's getting less stable in terms of planning. i don't know where it's going to land. hopefully it lands in the ocean and this sinks. my chief objection is i don't think it will lower the price of insurance or health care for americans. i can't be for that. >> steve kornacki? >> congressman, it's steve kornacki. practically speaking, what are the consequences for the republican party and this republican white house if this bill goes up for a vote and goes down to defeat? you have tax reform. that's the next big agenda item. can you pass tax reform if you
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can't get this through? >> oh, absolutely. this isn't a prerequisite to tax reform at all. the consequences of passing this in the house and senate are worse for the republican party than this bill going down today. i hope it goes down today. by the way, we have two years. we have lots of bites at this apple. we should go back to the table and bring all the parties at the table to the table at the beginning instead of at the end. >> joe? >> yeah, congressman, this is what i don't understand. if you are a conservative republican and you have a chance to reform obamacare, why would you vote for a bill -- not you, but any republican vote for a bill that, as you said, doesn't lower insurance rates, doesn't really lower deductibles, it doesn't really lower the cost curve of health care going into the future and doesn't bring free market forces into the health care system in a
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significant enough way to actually, as we know, lower cost the only way they can be lowered by free market forces. why would any conservative vote for this bill? >> joe, you have been on the hill. you know how this place works. the insurance companies were the ones at the seat of the table when the bill was written. that's why everybody comes out worse except for the insurance companies, if this bill passes. so, they bring a lot of pressure with the money they contribute on the hill. i think, you know, i'm no conspiracy -- >> what we are seeing, there is no, as i understand, cbo score on the revised bill. as i understand it, no one has seen the language of the revised bill and they were run late last night and this morning and you are voting tonight. with that as the context, how
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embarrassed are you with the process of the bill and hasn't this exposed every process criticism about the crafting of obamacare as essentially fraudulent? >> i'm embarrass zzed but not surprised. i have been in congress four years. everything is last minute. they need better planners here, frankly. the american people deserve better. we are trying to rearchitect one sixth of our economy in four hours and vote today. we need to kill it. it's ridiculous. >> congressman thomas massie, appreciate your time. >> thank you, guys. coming up, steny hower should have no problem keeping track of his votes. the democratic whip joins us next. the average family's hectic home:
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thank you so much for that down home welcome. show me female vocalist of the year. thank you so much. thank you so much acm's, i appreciate it. show me acm best moments. i could never have wished for, asked for and dreamt of anything more than this. catch your favorite moments from the acm awards and an exclusive encore performance by kelsea ballerini following the show on xfinity x1. the acm awards. live on sunday, april 2nd 8/7 central on cbs. live picture of the united states capitol in washington this morning. a very busy day there. joining us now, the number two ranked democrat in the house, steny hoyer. thanks for being with us this morning. i know you are not rooting for this bill to pass tonight. you have been around for a couple minutes in washington and seen how this plays outd. do you think it gets through the house? >> my gut tells me, no, but my
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experience tells me, at the end of the game, there's a lot of pressure brought on people who think the bill is bad to vote for it not with standing their judgment that it's not a good bill. i think it's up in the air. clearly, they don't have the votes now because the president is working it very hard on the republican leadership is working it hard. they are making changes that we are not sure what the changes are. we haven't seen the changes. to bring a bill to the floor of this magnitude that is going to put at risk millions of people from losing their insurance, millions more paying much more for coverage and placing substantially additional costs on seniors shouldn't be brought to the floor with this kind of doubt and with the lack of information as to what's in the bill. >> your point about members, congressman, feeling the pressure and voting against their own interest or the interest of their constituents is an interesting insight for people watching at home.
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why would a congressman or congresswoman do that at the finish line? is the pressure from paul ryan or the white house? >> i think it's cumulative. it's all the above. clearly, trump will see this, if he loses this bill, as a loss. i don't think he knows what's in it. it clearly does not achieve what the president promised to the american people. he said everybody was going to have insurance. he didn't say access to insurance. he said everybody was going to have insurance, better quality, at lower cost. this does not accomplish that. other republicans want to repeal the bill. this bill, does not accomplish that. paul ryan said everybody will have access, then he added a point that they can afford. that's, of course, the problem. we are pricing people out of the insurance market by this bill. that's why cbo says 14 million people are going to lose
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insurance just this coming year. 24 million by 2020. 52 million people without insurance in america. that will cost everybody else who has insurance higher premiums and substantially more cost in deductibles and premiums. this is a bad bill, doesn't accomplish the objective the american people want or president trump said he wanted to accomplish. therefore, they are having great difficulty convincing members either who think it hurts too many people or frankly, members who think it doesn't hurt enough people. >> congressman hoyer, we had congressman mass massie on with us. he was indicating hell no on the bill. he was going to vote against the bill. but, basically, went on to say that he was pretty much in favor of maintaining the aca, obamacare, until they came up with a suitable alternative. my question to you is, you have
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been there a long time in the capitol. the republicans have had seven years of complaining, saying we are going to repeal obamacare and we have an alternative. what do you figure they were really doing the last seven years? >> they were pandering to their hard right, in my opinion. they were pandering to people who weren't really cognizant of what the bill specifics were and they voted for repealing the affordable care act. now we see them saying, we didn't really mean that in terms of staying on until you are 26. we didn't mean that when we talked about pre-existing conditions. we really didn't mean that when we talked about eliminating annual or lifetime limits that drive people into bankruptcy, so, they voted a lot of times to repeal all of those items. when it came down to really doing it and having a plan, frankly, they had none and they still have no plan that has a consensus in their party and
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very frankly, i saw mr. massie as he was leaving, speaking to you earlier. he was on right before me, he said you're still with me, aren't you? for different reasons, we reached the bill. this is a bad bill for the american people. >> congressman, you mentioned the people who stand potentially to lose coverage or see their cost rise under this republican plan. some people have made the point it may be a lot of donald trump's voters who would be -- here is the question i'm asking. there's a sense out there that republicans, the trump administration stand to lose their political standing with these voters by doing that. i'm curious why those same people never embraced obamacare over the last seven years. if they stand to lose something they like in this story, why did they never reward them in the
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first place? >> they don't like obamacare, but don't want to lose the affordable care act. it's a joke, because they are the same thing. when a woman in kentucky was interviewed in a county, 67-69% for donald trump. she voted for him and said surely he's not going to take away my health care, which he has in the exchange. there's not a real awareness. it's interesting. as people look at what this means for the first time since it was adopted now, the affordable care act is above water. that means more people are for keeping it than taking it away. that was not the case for a number of years because the demagoguery, in my opinion, that was said about obamacare made people think it was a socialize zed system of medicine and is not going to help me. in fact, millimeterses and millions of people have found that it does, in fact, help them, their families and children and their mom and dad
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who are seniors. the fact of the matter is, i think we have seen a shift now and you are right, the irony is, the people are going to lose most are a lot of the trump voters in the middle of the country. very frankly, this is a tax cut for the wealthiest in america and as a result they live on the coast, a lot of them, and a lot of them voted for hillary clinton and the fact is, they are going to be advantaged and get a big, big tax cut, but to the detriment to seniors and everyone else. a lot of trump voters are looking saying, hey, this is not what i meant. i didn't want my health care taken away. i didn't want my children put at risk and my mom and dad who are seniors disadvantaged. >> that has to do with the proposed rollback of medicaid. congressman steny hoyer. >> apparently, they are in the
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process of making it worse. >> congressman, thank you so much, sir. always good to talk to you. our next guest believes house republicans made this process harder than it had to be. we'll speak with senator mike lee. that's next on "morning joe." this is the story of green mountain coffee and fair trade, told in the time it takes to brew your cup. let's take a trip to la plata, colombia. this is boris calvo. that's pepe. boris doesn't just grow good coffee, boris grows mind-blowing coffee.
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let's bring in congressman mike lee from utah, our senator.
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mike lee, it's great to have you here. i was thinking about a conversation we had with congressman massie. why are we rushing to do this without a score from the cbo. i asked why would a conservative vote for a bill that doesn't drive down health care costs for americans, it doesn't fully repeal obamacare and i think for people like you and me, it doesn't drive down the overall cost curve by relying on free market forces that you and i both know is really the only way we, in the end of the day, are going to save health care for millions of americans. >> i couldn't agree more, joe. the only way to restore it is through competition. we can add more competition to the marketplace through free markets and federalism. the more we rely on focusing more and more energy and money and power in washington, d.c., the more that's going to tend to
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keep things as bad as they are or perhaps drive health care costs up more, at a time when poor, middle class americans can least afford that. >> senator, i have to repeat the question, why would any conservative vote for this bill as is today without a cbo score and without more free market forces driving down the cost of health care in america? >> the fact is, they shouldn't. they wouldn't. i believe, at the end of the day, they won't. that's why i think this bill is going fail. unfortunately, this bill is being rushed through. with a few hours to go before the scheduled vote, i don't know why we have to rewrite the entire bill to con joel a few people to come along. we have to go back to the drawing board and come up with free market solutions that will actually bring down cost. i agree with the sentiment behind your question, conservatives should not vote for this bill. republicans should not vote for
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this bill. at the end of the day, they are not going to. >> again, let's underline this fact that because they are rushing this through, they have set up a false deadline because they want to pass this on the anniversary of the signing of obamacare but in so doing, they are making the same mistakes that washington insiders have made for decades where they have a bad bill and they rush it through without a cbo score. they rush it through without members being able to read the bill. that seems to violate every conservative principle that people like you have fought for your entire career. >> no, that's exactly right, joe. it would be ironic and tragic if on this, the seventh anniversary of the passage of the affordable care act, we as republicans made the same mistake as when obamacare was passed, to get members of congress to vote for something they little understood
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and too little considered. we should, instead, be undertaking this with great seriousness, with great caution and great respect for the principles we have. to overcome obamacare, repeal it and replace it with free market forces to bring the cost of health care down. >> senator lee, rick tyler. good morning. >> morning. >> this is a bad bill, doesn't keep anybody's promises. with not repealing and replacing obamacare, i just have a question for you. do you think republicans can actually be a governing party? >> well, yes, of course we can. we can be a governing party. part of being a governing party means putting forward legislation that members of our own party can vote for, while maintaining campaign promises. as you alluded to, we have promised to repeal obamacare root and branch, to get rid of
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it. this bill stops short of that and stops short in a way that's going to leave health care costs high. we can't do that, shouldn't do it and aren't going to do it. i encourage all my friends in the house of representatives who are on the fence, just vote no. we'll get it repealed, but get it actually repealed. this doesn't do that. >> what does it do to tax reform and growth and providing better jobs. doesn't a defeat get in the way of all that? >> well, a defeat, actually helps us get to something that can pass. >> i understand that. the fact that this whole health care agenda is a defeat. for the reason i said before this is a bad bill, doesn't keep anybody's promises. >> exactly. this bill would be a defeat if it were to pass. my point is, it's not going to pass. because it's not going to pass, we are going to come back to the table, i hope, with the right
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product. you are right, if it were to pass, it would be a defeat and provide for a loss of confidence on the part of republicans on both sides of the capitol who would be that much more leery to accept the assurances provided by reforms, including tax reform. >> sam stein. >> senator, obviously donald trump is pulling out the stops to get this on the finish line, bringing in skeptics to the white house and basically rewriting the bill in realtime before it's voted. you are a skeptic. you are opposed to the bill. have you heard from the president and the white house about your concerns and what are they offering and promising you and what have they said to get you on board? >> i have had countless conversations with the white house. literally so many that i can't count the number. so far, a lot of what they have been doing has been repeating the same talking points about why i should be supporting this bill. i have explained back to them my
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concerns. so far, they haven't come close to satisfying my concerns. it is going to change because it's apparent hours before the scheduled vote, they don't have the votes to get it passed. that's when things move. i think it's too late to change this bill and salvage this bill for this vote on this day, but i think there's more than enough time to get something passed that will do what we promised to do for seven years. >> all right, senator mike lee of utah. we'll see how it plays out. thank you for your time this morning. we will bring in peter alexander live from the white house with his latest reporting. back in a moment. ♪ ♪
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us from the white house, nbc news national correspondent, peter alexander. you are following the arrests in the bomb threats in jewish
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community centers across the country. >> reporter: this is a bizarre twist that hopefully brings to an end scares of jewish community centers across this country and frankly, across the globe. the fbi says an 18-year-old dual u.s.-israeli person is suspected of being the individual, the only individual behind those threats. the jerusalem post was first to report this. they suggest this individual was not ultra orthodox jewish or member or the israeli defense forces. his home was searched where they found a large antenna. he was using complicated systems to try to make it difficult to find out where this was coming from. suffice to say, it appears they have found the individual behind the scares at jewish community centers. >> any sense of motive here? >> reporter: that's the question. the jerusalem post reporting he may have had psychological
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problems, obviously. we'll keep working to get more details on that. >> thanks for bringing us up to speed on that. peter alexander at the white house. coming up at 9:00 with stephanie ruhle, mo brooks predicted his party will lose the majority if they vote on the bill. they are close to a deal after pressure from president trump. still, more "morning joe" coming up. we are back in 90 seconds.
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a quick look at the ground we have covered so far on a very busy thursday morning. >> the intelligence community collected information about u.s. citizens involved in the trump transition. >> nunes blew himself up and the house intel. >> i want to know why he betrayed the independence of our work. >> he's doing the bidding of a president who is a political day trader. >> president trump's approval rating at 37%. >> he will not admit he had a popularity or confidence problem. the best evidence for that is he was elected last year. >> these kind of attacks, we are never going to stop them totally. >> we launched an attack on our democracy. whatever he thought he was doing, he will not succeed. >> the president and i came to agreement in principle. >> he sounded like he was folding like a lawn chair last night. >> they could cut the deal with
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the freedom caucus and still have a problem. >> after hearing meadows crack, it sounds like this is going to pass. >> if i have another senator tell me dead on arrival, my head is going to explode. >> it's worse than obamacare. >> trump will see this, if he loses the bill, as a loss. i don't think he know what is is in it. >> i don't know why we are rewriting the entire bill to get a few people to come along. >> this is a bipartisan disaster. in my state, 600,000 people, six super bowl stadiums full of people that today in the house, there may be a vote to toss them offer coverage. >> let's get final thoughts here. sam stein, does the health care bill pass tonight? >> i have no idea. does it pass tonight? no. but it passes in the wee hours of the morning tomorrow. >> so, it does pass?
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how does that happen? >> if you have a desire to do something, if that's the prevailing goal, eventually you will get it done. this is not about policy, it's process. they want to score a victory. >> katty? >> i agree, the president gets enough to squeak. eventually from hell no to yes, mr. president, i have to do it. >> pass or fail, it's a major defeat. i don't think it will pass tonight. >> you don't? >> no. >> will it pass at all? >> no. >> steve kornacki? >> my prediction is west virginia beats gonzaga. health care, i have no idea. >> i know what you are watching and it's not the health care vote. >> gonzaga is going to beat north carolina. the intricacies of the health care bill and hurting people, the republicans have more difficulties than a lot of people are thinking about. >> all right. thank you all very much. that does it for us.
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stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, willie. good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle. look where i am. live from washington, d.c., overlooking the white house on a big morning. it is "d" day for the health care bill. the vote set for today as the president works, skeptical of republican lawmakers, hard. are they any closer to a yes? >> the president and i came to an agreement in principle. >> listen to this one. crossing the line. the republican head of the house intelligence committee now telling this to the president -- >> i have seen intelligence reports that clearly show that the president-elect and his team were at least monitored. >> it's creating a fire storm on both sides of the aisle. >> no longer does the congress have credibility to handle this alone. >> that's right. that was john mccain saying that. breaking overnight, eight arrests after the

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