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tv   MSNBC Live With Steve Kornacki  MSNBC  March 28, 2017 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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what kinds of jobs? i mean -- >> so the definition -- >> hesitate to say robot anchors. >> i don't think we're there yet. the definition of robots in this paper, it's machines that can run auto matted and can be reprogrammed to do different tests. we're seeing that in car manufacturing other heavy-duty manufacturing and -- which is why maybe we're seeing when ford announced investment they're investing billions of dollars but not laiden to a ton of jobs. >> elon musk has a scary piece in "vanity fair" about robots being the end of all of us. it's a brave new world out there. >> interesting stuff. >> christopher, thanks so much. >> thanks a lot. >> christopher mathews. that closes out this hour for me. up next my colleague steve kornacki. >> good afternoon. live here in new york, day 68 of the first 100 days. topping our agenda right now, sally yates. >> i hope she testifies. i look forward to it.
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>> the former acting attorney general was supposed to testify today in an investigation into russia's meddling in the election until her hearing was canceled. we will take you through what we know at this hour. also on the agenda, the status of chairman devin nunez. >> he has to step down. even if it were only the appearance of what he has done. >> it's not just the issue of sally yates. every hearing of the house intelligence committee this week on russian meddling has been canceled as chairman devin nunez faces calls from democrats and even some concerns from republicans now to step down about his leadership of that committee. can he survive? also this hour, debate and switch. >> we've never had anything like this happen in any of our elections before. >> that was a great pivot off the fact that she wants open
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boarders. >> we never had anything like this happen in any of our elections before. >> ta was a great pivot off the fact that he wants open boarders. >> you saw the real debates last fall but a re-enactment of the trump/clinton debates with the genders reversed what you see and how you respond to it may surprise you. it certainly did for me. some experimental theater right here in studio 3 a. you are not going to want to miss that. that is ahead in a little while. we begin, though, with our top story, i hope she testifies, that the official line from the white house press secretary today. at issue here, letters from the attorney for sally yates that were publicly revealed by "the washington post" early this morning. now in the letters dated from thursday and friday of last week, yatess' lawyer first reveals she's been asked to testify in front of the intelligence committee on tuesday of this week. in other words, she was supposed to testify today. now in its response, the trump
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justice department informed her that any such testimony could include privileged information and, therefore, she needed to run her appearance by the white house. yates' lawyer wrote to the white house, explained she was going to testify and added if the white house isn't object by monday, by yesterday, that she would assume they took no claim of privilege here. that letter to the justice department was sent thursday. the letter to the white house was sent on friday. friday was also the day that the chairman of the house intelligence committee devin nunez announced that the hearing with yates was going to be postponed. in its place nunez said a closed door hearing with fbi director james comey and director of national intelligence mike rogers would, instead, be held. now since then, since that announcement last friday, there have been democrats and even some republicans expressing concerns about nunez's leadership of the committee and claims he is using his chairmanship to assist the trump administration.
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nunez has postponed all hearings this week, public and private, on the issue of russia by the house intelligence committee. nbc's halle jackson is at the white house. so we've got this from a number of different angles here, but halle, the white house is saying, absolutely no connection here between those letters that were sent last week and the decision to postpone or maybe even cancel this hearing? >> they're saying no story, non-story, 100% false, they don't want sally yates to testify. as you played from sean spicer at the top of your show, and i want to play you a little bit more of what he had to say about this exact topic. remember this was fairly early on in the briefing and the press secretary was strong about it. listen. >> i hope she testifies. i look forward to it. it was never -- let's be honest the hearing was never -- was actually never notified if they choose to move forward great we have no problem with her testifying, plain and simple, the report in "the washington post" is 100% false. the letters that they frankly
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publish on their website all back up everything i just read. all of the letters are available on their website, i hate to give them the traffic, but the reality is, that they specifically say, if you don't respond we're going to go ahead. we didn't respond. we encouraged them to go ahead. but to suggest in any way, shape, or form that we stood in the way of that is 100% false. >> reporter: sean spicer trying to be as clear as he possibly could be at the briefing. that, of course, has not stopped questions from some democrats who are wondering about exactly what spicer was talking about. additionally there's still a question of when sally yates will answer questions in front of these committees and potentially doing it in an open setting, as opposed to behind closed doors, steve. as you know, she is sort of one of the most sought-after folks in washington, at least right now. people have a lot of questions for her. and the big question is when will she answer some of those? >> halle jackson, at the white house, thanks for that. another piece of this story, devin nunez, the republican
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chairman of the house intelligence committee, what are his motivations? what is his status as that investigation by his committee proceeds. kasie hunt is on capitol hill. kacie, a couple different questions to get to with you here about dev vig vin nunez. he has been facing for the past week these accusations and suggestions he's essentially doing the white house's bidding. you had last friday the decision to postpone the hearing involving sally yates. that initial decision to postpone the sally yates' hearing the claims that are out there that he's doing the white house's bidding, suggestions there's a connection, what does he say to that? >> there are essentially saying at this point, steve, that there's no there there, this is not something that the white house had any influence over, that this is all related to them wanting more testimony from jim comey, the fbi director, and admiral rogers of the nsa. those two, of course, the ones
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who appeared at that hearing a week ago. and so this came according to nunez after he read this new information from his source that we haven't identified that he read, met with on the white house grounds to read new information that he he then took out to the press. he came back out and said i want to hear more from these people we've heard testimony from. of course, democrats have cried foul about that. >> then there's this question or this issue about the indefinite postponement of all hearings public and private by the intelligence committee. does that say anything about the status of devin nunez? democrats have been calling for him to step down. i know paul ryan gave him some sort of endorsement there, but does the fact that they're now postponing all these hearings say something about his status? >> well democrats have been calling for him to recuse himself and there's been one two or two who want him to step down entirely as the chairman of the committee. i asked the speaker this morning should he recuse. speaker ryan said no, implying and if you ask his spokesperson they'll give you a little longer
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one sentence instead of a one word statement about the fact that they still have confidence in him, but the reality is, this investigation is not proceeding as it was. nunez's has been insisting today this is going to keep going forward. they've canceled all not just anything related to the investigation but reagan meetings. this is a committee that meets once or twice a week as a matter of course and all of that has ground to a halt. this committee usually is bipartisan. the top two people on it are friendly go gotten along well, the staffs get along well. this is still a little bit of an unusual situation but it's really gotten very difficult quickly here. >> and quickly, do we know if and when the committee might still hear from sally yates? is that something that's definitely going to happen and if so when, or is that up in the air whether they hear from her at all? >> we don't know, steve. we think that they want to reschedule. it's been, you know, described to us as having been postponed but there is no date set and now the chairman is saying that he wants to hear again from comey
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and from rogers before he hears from these new witnesses and the latest bit of confusion is over whether he even invited officially the fbi director to come to capitol hill for tuesday. that, of course, was the pretense for the cancellation of the yates' hearing. his team telling us they were in discussions with him over the weekend but the fbi saying behind the scenes that there was no formal invitation ever extended. so again, another point of confusion with a lot of different answers coming from the chairman of the intelligence committee that don't all line up with one another. so we'll keep you posted on the latest, steve. >> kasie hunt on capitol hill, thanks for that. we have the white house side of it, we have the capitol hill side. what about the justice department? they are also involved in this story. msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber is here. we know the lawyer for sally yates first wrote to the justice department last week and the justice department in reply said
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if she testifies some of the things she said could be, quote, covered by the presidential communications privilege, and possibly the deliberative process privilege. said she then needed to check with the white house. can you translate that and is that a normal message from the department of justice to deliver in a situation like this is this. >> it's normal, almost certainly true, because any acting attorney general is going to know things or have worked directly with the white house about things that are potentially privileged, meaning the white house says don't talk about it, or potentially deliberative, meaning at a policy level that's not for public consumption. that doesn't mean you can't show up at all but doj raising the flag and her lawyer is trying to say we'll double check whether they want to exercise the privilege. this is what i've been saying and reporting this. sean spicer is certainly technically correct that the white house did not formally intervene and the lawyers for sally yates said hey, tell us by such and such date whether you want us to stop. and they didn't do that. so they didn't tell them to stop formally. the rubber hits the road in the
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conversation and the questions you were posing to kacie, is this just a scheduling snafu or did the thing they might have tried to stop her testimony, become itself moot because there was no hearing? >> this is one of those where everything that we see on the record, at least from what i can piece together, everything that's official and on the record suggestses hey if you want to view this as a routine thing, they canceled it, something else in mind you could read it that way and somebody who already thinks hey, there's some kind of a coordination between nunez and the white house, you could create an interpretation too. what's on the record here isn't clear either way. >> right. you pick your words carefully and used the word of alleged coordination which would be potentially bad if you're independently overseeing it. but we do know the word communication is in the ballpark. we know that nunez, who ought to be sort of the independent overseer according to his role, was in this kind of reaggular communication about the wiretap claims and had to reverse himself.
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that hangs over all this as well. there may be nothing wrong with this committee trying to take a pause having learned about this blockbuster disclosure that's unusual, the fbi doesn't usually disclose ongoing investigations, right, so they might take a break or pause to get their ducks in a row. the problem is they're doing this in a piecemeal manner with talking and politicizing, nunez trying to embrace parts of trump's baseless wiretap allegation felt political and now everything is being called into question, even if it may be unfair. may be things were potentially unscheduled. i don't think we as journalists at this hour have a dispositive answer to that. the last thing i'll say that is the bigger picture we are unlikely to learn a bombshell from sally yates. even if she is cleared to testify she's a careful lawyer who has obtained counsel. it's a show when the lawyers have lawyers. she's not going to be disclosing anything that could be potentially be privileged or classified. all she might give a picture into is nonprivileged dealings or prep around the russia case which could be interesting but i
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wouldn't call that a blockbuster and why does the white house seem so edgy about this. sean spicer attacking back, he even said at one point in the hearing this has been asked and answered, it's over. the answer could be yes or no, we don't know yet because the inquiries aren't over. >> important to set the expectation level at a reasonable level for what sally yates -- >> we like to be reasonable. >> if she does sometimes. ari, thank you for joining us. >> let's bring in susan page, washington bureau chief at "usa today." i have no idea here if this whole sally yates story adds up to anything at all. i guess, though, one way of looking at this, is this is an illustration of how the slightest development on this case on this issue of trump and russias has all of washington on edge? >> well, you know, also illustrates the cost of the loss of trust in chairman nunez by democrats and by independent critics of how he's proceeded so far because he has certainly raised at least the appearance
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of a conflict of interest and independent oversight, independent investigation into the alleged ties between possible cooperation between the trump campaign and russians trying to meddle in our election. so, you know, he's kind of lost the benefit of the doubt that he might have otherwise been getting from adam schiff and others who are closely tied to this. and that's one of the things that has made this schedule that -- scheduling issue on sally yates so suspicious in some people's minds. >> do you think, just you know the politics of washington pretty well, do you think nunez can put this behind him? we've got the hearings all canceled this week. can he put this behind him and continue or is this just one of these situations where the pressure is going to mount and mount and mount and he will have to recuse himself at some point? >> i think that's hard to answer now while speaker paul ryan backed him up today, backed him up with one word, no. that's not exactly kind of the full-throated defense that the
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chairman might have hoped to get. you know, i think the way that chairman nunez could move past this is to reschedule these hearings to apologize to adam schiff, to tell us who his source was when he met with someone on the white house grounds, and to stop seeming to cooperate with the white house in this investigation. those are big things to do. he would have to behave in different ways than he's behaving now. >> and also, we put this up. the gallup daily tracking poll on presidential approval rating. donald trump the most recent read out, 36%. he's not been doing -- he's not exactly been lighting the world on fire in this thing since the beginning of his presidency but this is down about 5, 7 points since a couple weeks ago. hard not to link this to the wiretapping controversy and this ongoing issue of russia. >> it's down 5 percentage points since friday and he was already at a historically low point in terms of approval ratings for a president this early point in his tenure. he has a lower approval rating than either bill clinton or
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barack obama had during eight years of their presidency. now an approval rating isn't everything. he continues to have pretty solid support among republicans. but this is a worrisome sign as he tries to get things done here in washington. >> all right. susan page from the "usa today," thanks as always for the time. >> thanks, steve. we have some good news to let you know about from the world of the stock market today. the dow breaking its eight-day losing streak today. it closed up 150 points. this as new reports show a surge in consumer confidence this month. we're going to check in with cnbc just a few minutes from now. always on top of these things. still ahead, the president touting his sweeping new executive order this afternoon, essentially dismantling president obama's policies on climate change. trump signing the order flanked by coal miners at a ceremony in washington. next, we are going to head to west virginia to the heart of coal country, for reaction from some of those who could be most
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affected. plus, who could forget the fireworks from the debates last fall. >> my social security payroll contribution will go up as will donald's assuming he can't figure out how to get out of it. what we want to do is to replenish -- >> such a nasty woman. >> he would rather have a puppet as president. >> no puppet. >> and it's pretty clear -- >> you're the puppet. >> well you remember that moment. you remember whatever you made of it at that moment. the election is over but now here's a new twist. a new way to get you to think about it on what went down during those debates. it's getting a lot of attention and raising plenty of questions ahead this hour. we are going to present to you a different way of looking at the debates that maybe made donald trump president. stay with us. grown man now. i don't want to pry... dad. but have you made a decision? i'm going with the $1000 in cash back.
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my action today is the latest in a series of steps to create american jobs and to grow american wealth. >> that was president trump this afternoon taking aim at president obama's legacy on climate change. trump signing an executive order that rescinds a moratorium on coal mining on federal lands. also, trump calling for a review of obama's signature environmental initiative, clean power plan. trump saying today that the measure takes a step towards energy independence and fulfillment of his campaign promise to revitalize the coal industry. and nowhere are they more eager to hear words like that than west virginia, that has historically been the heart of
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coal country in the united states. west virginia where donald trump won by more than 40 points. get that, 40 points. over hillary clinton. so do the locals there believe this means their jobs are coming back? mariana is down in charleston, west virginia. what are they telling you? >> so, president trump signed this executive order rolling back key obama administration environmental protections, hoping that that will bring coal mining jobs back to west virginia. here in charleston we spoke to someone whose family has been in the coal mining business for generations, and this is what he told us. let's listen. do you think president trump can actually bring coal mining jobs back? >> i do. i definitely do think he can bring coal mining jobs back, just by lifting the regulations. there are a lot of hungry people out there. i watched it go from a boom town to ghost town just taking coal away, especially from the small towns. like i said, it brings money,
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businesses, jobs and i think trump is the man to bring back the coal industry in the state of west virginia. >> we've also been talking to other locals and they tell us they fear time is running out for west virginia. there's a sense of urgency here that this needs to be turned around quickly, and all eyes on president trump to do that. >> all right. mariana down ins west virginia, thanks for that. meanwhile, as the white house pivots away from their defeat on health care in congress last week, president trump finds himself -- we showed you this a second ago -- down at 36%. his approval rating in the latest gallup daily number. is it a blip or is this the start of a dangerous long-term trend for this white house? our panel joins me next. once there was a little pig that had built his house out of straw. one day a big bad wolf huffed and he puffed and blew the house down. luckily the geico insurance agency
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and welcome back. here now are the headlines at the half hour.
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white house press secretary sean spicer pushing back on suggestions that the white house sought to prevent former acting attorney general sally yates from testifying before congress. spicer today saying that the administration has no problem with her testifying, plain and simple. his words. more democrats calling for house intelligence committee devin nunez to recuse himself, or even step down, over questions about the source of his information, claiming the trump transition communications were incidentally intercepted. nunez maintains the material came from an intelligence source and not the white house itself. when asked if nunez should recuse himself house speaker paul ryan today simply said no. the house will vote today on broadband privacy rules approved by the fcc earlier this year. those rules would allow service providers like at&t, verizon, and nbc parent company comcast to sell browsing histories to marketers without consumers' permission. and ford pushed back on
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president trump's claim their $1.2 billion investment in michigan is tied to his rollback of obama era environmental regulations. the company executive confirming to fox news that the investment was, quote, in the works for quite some time. to politics now the trump administration may be setting their sights on something even more ambitious after that bruising health care fight. tax reform is officially the next issue on the docket in d.c., but, of course, as the trump administration just learned it may not be possible to pass a tax reform plan with just republican votes alone. this morning, senator lindsey graham from south carolina, floating an idea of interest to democrats. >> i think it could be the infrastructure really will entice democrats to vote for whatever its paired with. if you pair that with tax reform or anything else you're likely to get democratic vote. >> and white house press secretary sean spicer was asked about potentially pairing tax
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reform with infrastructure. >> what we want to do is keep a lot of options on the table in terms of do we put infrastructure in, is there another vehicle to drive that. >> so could adding infrastructure and tax reform together be a combination that could attract democratic vote and get a package through congress? joining ne to dig into the politics republican strategist matt and corerin with corerin, this suggestion of infrastructure, donald trump campaigned talking about it, he won some traditional democratic voters over in the rust belt. would the addition of infrastructure to a tax reform bill make democrats stop and say, maybe this is something we want to listen to? >> well i have to tell you, sounds more like desperation than a reality. donald trump has no political, at all, any political pull. his republican conference is
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completely fractured as we saw with the health care. he completely has lost his other signature issue which was a muslim ban stopped by the courts twice. and the other thing to think about in the last 70 days or less, he's been the great divider in chief. he hasn't done anything to show democrats that he is going to work with them at all. if anything, he keeps pushing policies that are hurtful to the most vulnerable. there's nothing there for democrats to want to work with him on. >> if he did reach out to democrats right now, because we had a poll yesterday that showed among democrats his approval rating something like 5% among democrats right now, you've seen big protests, if he reached out and said i want to talk to you about infrastructure would democrats even have the conversation with him right now or is it just opposition from democrats? >> i would like to think that they would not. if anything, democrats should feel emboldened by just what happened just a few disago, four days ago, where something -- a signature issue they should have
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passed easily after seven years, they couldn't get it through. they voted to repeal obamacare 60 plus times and cooperate get this done. i just don't see how that is at all possible. as you mentioned earlier in the show, he has 36%, the lowest approval rating that you could have at this time in his administration. so he has no political collateral at all. >> so let me bring matt in here from the republican side of things. matt, is this administration in a bit of a jam right here? you just saw with health care they tried to do with this republican vote alone and got holdouts from the freedom caucus and moderates as well. indications democrats maybe are not going to be willing to compromise. are they going to be in a jam here moving forward on tax reform? >> yeah. i'm not convinced democrats are not going to be willing to discuss this with president trump with capitol hill republicans. i'm not convinced of that. look at an issue like infrastructure where democrats want to see something happen.
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even on tax reform there's moderate democrats and some business centered democrats across the country in washington that do want to see tax reform happen and know it's important to lower the corporate tax rate. we have the highest corporate tax rate in the country. to try to use repatriation to bring the profits back onshore. i would differ with corrine on one point. while there was fracture on health care there's not fracturing on tax reform right now. remember house ways and means chairman brady passed a blueprint through the house committee last year. there's broad agreement among republicans on what they want do. this has been moving on a parallel track during the health care debate. ways and means working on this package. i think in a weird way, while they wanted to get health care to try to make tax reform easier the fact that health care failed, makes tax reform all the more necessary and urgent. >> has the president, has this white house, been weakened by losing on such a big fight early on? see the approval rate at 36%. has to be some political cost for losing that big this early?
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>> yeah. i'm not going to pretend that losing their first major legislative fight on capitol hill is a good thing. i think it weakened them and weakened the speaker to some extent. now they're really back in their groove i think on tax reform. this is something that really can grow the economy, they can make our businesses more competitive. this is something where they're not starting from a standing position. they've been working on this for years. tax reform only happens once a generation. it's very complex. but i think they do have some good momentum. high level meetings at the committee and white house for some period of time and so i think there is some momentum and hard work that still needs to be done. i would be surprised if they don't get tax reform this year. >> and corrine, from the democratic standpoint, is it -- is there an issue if it's not infrastructure, some other issue out there, some other policy tim you could see the -- item you can see the party to at least reach out to this administration or are the democrats looking at this right now and saying look,
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we can score political points for the next 18 months and we can win back the congress in 2018? is that where the thinking is in the party right now? >> i think that that's where the thinking should be. look, these are not usual times. we have a president who is -- whose under investigation by the fbi, the trump -- his trump associates are under investigation. this should not be business as usual here with this administration. and also, just to step back for a second on the 36%, if you look at those numbers, there's a softening there with his own supporters. he's losing independents by double digits. there is no momentum amongst his base right now and he -- they are really hurt by what's been going on the last 67, 68 days. >> matt, i'm trying to figures out, here's my thing when i see the 36% number from gallup, i don't know if we have the graphic, but i was thinking about it earlier, if you look back at the campaign donald trump seemed like in the bad weeks of the campaign like when the "access hollywood" video came out or something he had
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fallen in the race at hillary clinton in the high 30s, sitting at 37, 38, 39. on a good week would hit 43, 44. we thought that's where the ceiling is. he got north of 46% at the end. i'm wondering when i see the low approval numbers how much of this is an extension of the campaign where he will lose about 10% of his base every few weeks and then somehow find a way to get it back up there, versus how much of this is him permanently losing? how do republicans think about things? do they think this is the campaign all over again and he has a base that's going to be with him or do they think something is changing here? >> yeah. it's a good question, steve. he's had a high floor and low ceiling in the primary and general election and even in the first two and a half months of his presidency. you're right to point to that. going forward i don't think it's necessarily about the base, he's been in the 80s, low 90s among republicans. it's independents. democrats are solidly opposing him no matter what he says or does. going forward, this is going to be about the midterm elections here. you have a number of red state
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democrats in the senate, 25 democrats, up for re-election, more than half of their conference, and some of them will look to see not where trump is in the polls but state morse red than blue. his numbers nationally don't necessarily translate in a state like montana or north dakota or missouri or indiana. i think his numbers have to improve, but i think he's going to be looking to combine democratic issues like infrastructure with tax reform and doesn't need a large number of democratic votes. he just needs a handful in the senate. >> we started to talk about this yesterday and i warn you you will be hearing a lot about this over the next few weeks, the special election in georgia, a house race, couple weeks from now, will be an interesting barometer. >> that's right. >> both parties looking and saying yes looking at it already too. >> that's right. >> we will give it a lot of coverage in the next few days. thank you both for joining us. >> thanks, steve. >> thanks, steve. >> the house intelligence committee sorts through a week of postponed hearings the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, the ranking democrat
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there, mark warner, stepping to the microphone to give an update on their progress just in the last few minutes. warner telling reporters his committee is still, in fact, gathering information stage and no closer to calling witnesses, including t including the former acting attorney general sally yates. asked if he had further information on devin nunez's claims last week mark warner said his committee is still in the dark on that issue. >> the source and the content of mr. nunez's claims a week ago, we on the senate side still have no idea what he's talking about. >> still ahead, as promised, we have a new twist on what went down in the presidential debates and the presidential campaign in general last fall. that question, how did donald trump win? what did he tap. >> here's an interesting way of trying to figures out a gender reversal of sorts. it's getting a lot of attention. the team behind it, thea actors who did this will join me in
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studio. you will not want to miss this. before that let's take a quick look at wall street. it had been a pretty rough eight days. was it a ninth day of a slide or a turnaround? here's hampton peterson with the market wrap. >> hey, steve. we did have the markets shaking off that losing streak, ending in positive territory. the dow higher by 150 points. the s&p up 17. the nasdaq rising by about 34 points. and that is it from cnbc. first in business worldwide. i mean wish i had time to take care of my portfolio, but.. well, what are you doing tomorrow -10am? staff meeting. noon? eating. 3:45? uh, compliance training. 6:30? sam's baseball practice. 8:30? tai chi. yeah, so sounds relaxing. alright, 9:53? i usually make their lunches then, and i have a little vegan so wow, you are busy. wouldn't it be great if you had investments that worked as hard as you do? yeah. introducing essential portfolios.
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befi was active.gia, i was energetic. then the chronic, widespread pain drained my energy. my doctor said moving more helps ease fibromyalgia pain. he also prescribed lyrica. fibromyalgia is thought to be the result of overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. for some, lyrica can significantly relieve fibromyalgia pain and improve function, so i feel better. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain,
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i can be more active. ask your doctor about lyrica. so, this is me trying to get your attention for a minute because we are about to do something here that is very different than what you normally see. this is a totally new and a kind of wild way of looking at a question that all sorts of people are still trying to
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answer. how did donald trump actually win the election. experimental theater. to set it up refresh your memory. the three debates last fall between donald trump and hillary clinton. you remember them. they went something like this. >> so i actually think the most important question of this evening, chris, is, finally will donald trump admit and condemn that the russians are doing this and make it clear that he will not have the health of putin in this election that he rejects russian espionage against americans which he actually encouraged in the past. those are the questions we need answered. we've never had anything like that happen in any of our elections before. >> that was a great pivot off the fact that she wants open borders. how did we get to putten. >> the polls said on point hillary clinton won the debates,
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better command of the issues, policy details and she was more civil, that donald trump was rude, borish, that he was unpresidential. that is what the polls said, that's what the pundits said. and yet, of course, donald trump is now the president. he won the election. so it raises the question, were we missing something in those debates? were we missing something in the campaign? was there something about trump that didn't show up in the polls but was connecting on some level with voters? was there something about clinton that wasn't showing up in the polls but that was turning voters off to her even if they said she won the debates on points. was there more happening on those debate stages than anyone consciously recognized as they were watching it in real time. well, a political science professor wondered about that and came up with an idea. what if you switched the genders of the candidates. what if the trump character, the bombastic character lobbing one
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grenade after another had been a female and the clinton character correcting her opponent's statements and racking up traditional debate points had been a male candidate. that is what they did. they re-enacted the trump/clinton debates with the gender roles reversed. brenda king the overbearing republican nominee. and meet jonathan gordon the super prepared, well studied democratic nominee. they put this show on in front of a crowd packed with people who had voted for hillary clinton. people who detest donald trump. and what they watched shocked many of the people in that audience and caused many of them to say, that now they understand why donald trump won the election and why hillary clinton lost. in a minute, we are going to show you what they saw. the clinton -- excuse me the king/gordon debate right here, right after this break. will your mind be blown? stay tuned and find out. my goal was to finally get in shape. not to be focusing on my moderate
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all right. you ready for this? some experimental political theater. pretend it's the fall of 2016 all over again. the presidential campaign is heating up. it is debate night. this time, though, the genders are reversed. let me introduce you to the participants here. we have the moderator, then we have brenda king, the republican nominee, aka donald trump, and
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then we have on the other side of the stage, jonathan gordon, the democratic nominee, aka hillary clinton. and as we pick things up, it is jonathan gordon who is speaking. >> well, i actually think the most important question of this evening, chris, is finally, will brenda king, admit and condemn, that the russians are doing this and make it clear that she will not have the help of putin in this election, that she rejects russian espionage against americans, which she actually encouraged in the past. those are the questions we need to have answered. we've never had anything like this happen in any of our elections before. >> well -- >> that was a great pivot off the fact that he wants open borders, okay. how did we get on to putin. >> hold on. >> no hold on. this could end up getting out of control. >> to finish on the borders he wants open borders, people are going to pour into our country, people from syria, he wants 550% more people than barack obama and he has thousands of people.
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they have no idea where they come from and you see we are going to stop radical islamic terrorism in this country. he won't even mention the words and neither will president obama. so i just want to tell you, he wants open borders now we we ca talk about putin. i don't know putin. he said nice things about me. if we got along well and went after ice sis, that would be good. he has no respect for him or our president and i tell you what, we are in serious trouble because we have a country with tremendous numbers of nuclear warheads, 1800, by the way, where they expanded and we did. 1800 nuclear warheads and he is playing chicken. from everything i see putin has no respect for this person. >> he would rather have a puppet for the united states. >> no puppet. you're puppet. you're puppet. >> the russians engaged in cyber
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attacks and you encouraged espionage against our people and you signed up for his wish list and do what he wants to do and you continue to get help from him because he has a clear favorite in this race. i think this is an unprecedented situation. we never had a foreign government trying to interfere in any of our election. we had 17, 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyber attacks come from the highest levels of the kremlin designed to influence our election and i find that deeply disturbing. >> we have no idea whether it's russian or china or anyone else. we have no idea. >> 17 military. >> she would rather believe vladimir putin than the professionals that are sworn to
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protect us. >> putin applauded him every step of the way. excuse me. putin outsmarted him in syria and every step of the way. >> i need to ask questions and i would like to ask you this direct question. the top national security officials of this country do believe that russia has been behind the attacks even if you don't know if are sure whether they are. do you condemn any interference by russia in the american election? >> by russia or anybody else. >> all right. you heard those lines before a few months ago, but maybe not like that. take a minute to think about what you saw. take a quick break and when we come back, we will talk to the people you heard reenact that debate and the person who created this with us. back after this. ♪ from engineering and manufacturing... to stealth bombers...
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17 military and civilian. >> i doubt it. >> she would rather believe vladimir putin than the intelligence professionals sworn to protect us. >> here doesn't like putin because putin applauded him every step of the way. >> they will be opening and the debates with the genders reversed. let's talk to the cast and this man right here. i have been seeing things they didn't notice. i watched the real donald trump
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and seen the comments from your audience. a lot of people say it's the most comment reaction is now i get it and now i know why he won. >> that's one of the most common things we hear is people can see the technique he used in the debates and people can see how he lands the message. as a female candidate, what did you learn about donald trump in the process? >> i learned that there are certain things that i can kind of tell when he truly cares about something that i had trouble deciphering that when i heard him speak that message and going back and speaking his words. i think i discovered a little bit of the moments where he really is talking about something he truly genuinely cares about. >> how about on the other side.
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during the campaign, this was a delicate issue for people in the media to talk about. hillary clinton. is she likeable? they said don't say that and there is gender issues here. a lot of reaction i am seeing and they look at your character, the jonathan gordon character and they said unlikable. >> they do. it has been a fascinating thing for us to process that as well. as an actor, my job is to do hillary as hillary did hillary. is she likeable or not, but this is the way she delivers this and this is when she talks to the camera and smiles and laughs. >> what are the contrasts in playing her the way you are against a character like this? what are the contrasts that have become clear to you? >> one of the big ones is focus. the debates we are looking at. hillary looks at the camera and
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makes eye contact. that was an interesting thing for us. brenda is always really giving the focus all the way to jonathan the whole time. that was one of the fascinating things. her focus. and the way she reacted or not reacted to things he said. is she stonewalling or laughing it off and diverting to a different direction. what about her tactics as well. >> the moderator here, did your impressions change or understanding of the election change doing this? >> i continuing did and i had a perspective and both of these people and i see it reversed like this. it strips away any sort of bias that you had before you actually watch it and dive into their words themselves. the message that they are speaking about. the preconceived notions that you get stripped away. it boils down to what they are
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saying and what their message was during the debates. >> it is fascinating and this is going to be an off broadway play opening later and people have a chance to check it out. this is a great idea and a fascinating thing to watch. thank you all for coming in and doing this. appreciate it. that does it for this hour. mtp daily starts now. >> if it's tuesday, it's kremlin connections with dressing on the side. tonight, word salad. >> if the president puts russian salad dressing on his salad, somehow that's a russian connection. >> can they breakthrough the ever growing crowd of the kremlin. web of ties. connecting the dots between paul manford and players. will the president throw a lifeline as his agenda hangs in the balance. >> some of those in the no camp


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