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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  June 22, 2017 6:00am-7:01am PDT

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the documentary is called "nobody speak: trials of the free press." and it's out on netflix tomorrow so get it. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. we'll all be watching. that does it for thus morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. we've got a lot to talk about starting with the big reveal happening this hour, senate republicans finally releasing their health care plan. new details on what exactly is in it. as the president rallies his base overnight, his favorite thing to do, but then he says this about his rich cabinet. >> in those particular positions i just don't want a poor person. >> i'm sorry. what? everything is on the table. what one key republican says about how far the investigation into president trump may go, how about obstruction? >> everything's on the table. plus, more toxic than trump.
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some democrats calling for nancy pelosi to go. >> do you think nancy pelosi is more toxic than donald trump? >> in some areas of the country, yes, she is. minutes away from the republicans' health care reform. garrett, set the stage for us. >> reporter: stephanie, we're in the basement waiting to catch senators as they go to this meeting on what will probably be the most consequential legislative day in the senate since donald trump became president. today is the day senate majority leader mitch mcconnell will unveil the health care plan they've been putting together behind closed doors set to try and repeal and replace obamacare. this is probably closer to the beginning than the end of this process because they still have to get 50 republican votes for this bill and that won't be easy. there's some opposition to
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whatever the majority leader will put out from both sides of the republican caucus. i want to show you some of the senators that they have to win over with this thing. on the right, they've got senators like ted cruz, rand paul, and mike lee who are very much focused on keeping their promise to repeal as much of obamacare as possible. root and branch was the term from the campaign if you remember. and then on the other side you have some moderate senators who want to make sure that things like the medicaid expansion put in place by president obama happened much slower. they want to make sure there are protections for people on issues like open roids. you have rob portman, lisa murkowski, susan collins, people who want to pump the brakes slower. between the lot they have to get to 50 votes, a challenging task in the senate. last night for really one of the first times we heard president trump on the stump in iowa weighing in about what he'd like to see from this effort. take a listen. >> i think, and i hope, okay can't guarantee anything, but i hope we're going to surprise you with a really good plan.
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you know, i've been talking about a plan with heart. i said add some money to it. a plan with heart. >> reporter: a plan with heart, stephanie. we will find out sometime in the next probably hour, hour and a half exactly how much heart, exactly how much money senate republican leaders decided to put in that bill. >> all right, garrett. i have to bring my panel in. josh earnest was president obama's white house press secretary. he's now an msnbc political analyst. steven kornacki and nicholas kristof, a columnist with "the new york times." josh, republicans, mitch mcconnell republicans would say this is cutting spending, improving efficiency and giving states more control. what's wrong with that? >> it will take away health care from more than 24 million americans based on what we know about it. >> fair point. >> and it will take that money and plow it into tax cults for the wealthiest americans.
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it's not saving money, it's giving more money to wealthy people at the expense of working people and people lower on the income scale who are again oede on the affordable care act for their livelihood, for health care. one other element that's not gotten as much attention but is worthy of our attention, which is we talk a lot about people who benefit from buying their health insurance through the obamacare marketplace. but there are also people who get their health insurance through their employer who are in a position where they're going to have some consumer protections taken away. even if you don't get your health care through obamacare, you are in a position where you could see an annual cap placing the amount of benefits you receive or a lifetime cap placed on the amount of benefits you receive. there are substantial consequences not just for people who are on quote/unquote obamacare but for every american who's participating in our health care system right now. >> all right. according to "the washington post," and this may change, i just want to share what we believe or what they believe is in the bill. the individual mandate is gone.
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medicaid expansion phased out. deep medicaid cuts after 2025. obamacare taxes on the wealthy gone. and planned parenthood funding ended for a year. nick, you have written that these deep medicaid cuts, what they could do to people who are wrestling with this opioid crisis. i want to walk through the math for a minute. we can pull up the graphic. 20% of all americans are covered by medicaid. nearly half of births, more than 40% of kids, more than 60% of people living in nursing homes. what happens to all of these people tied to medicaid? >> essentially this threatens the safety net the u.s. has had for half a century. i wonder if we in the media have miscast this in part as simply a repeal of obamacare and, you know, it would indeed be that but more fundamentally it would be a repeal of medicaid as we know it.
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and, you know, as you say, 40% of american kid depend on it. you know, 60% of adults in nursing homes. this is really a pillar of life in the u.s. and at a time when we have a national emergency with the opioid addiction, more people dying in any one year of drug overdoses than died in vietnam, afghanistan, and iraq combined, then pillaging medicaid simply undermines our ability to respond to that emergency. >> are you listening to those numbers? steven kornacki, you know, president trump's best line since being elected, health care, who knew it would be so complicated? but is this not this goldilocks moment for mitch mcconnell in terms of the rand pauls of the world, it's not enough and moderate republicans, it's too much? how do they break this cycle? what do they do here? >> right. this is fluid right now, and we'll see what actually comes out today. you put some of the framework that's been reported as potentially in this.
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the basic trade thauf i see and the reporting that's out there right now that looks like the senate republicans are aiming for is this. they want to change the formula on these subsidies, to help people pay for coverage. in the house version it was based on age and what that meant, there was a lot of attention paid to, hey, if you're 61, 62, 63, 64 years old, you could be paying four or five times as much as you're paying right now. i think as a sock to the moderates, somebody like susan collins, who might be wavering, i think the reporting is emerging right now suggests they want to switch to an income-based formula instead of an age-based formula. they think that could bring moderates on board. the risk to moderates talking about here with medicaid. there's a key feature emerging in the this reporting about medicaid. it's not just the deep cuts. the change it look like they're aiming for on medicaid is the timing of that. instead of having that happen in three years it looks like they want to delay that to six or seven years. >> why would they do that? >> a senatorial term is six years. >> ding, ding, ding.
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>> if you want to talk about the politics of this and a difficult vote, if it doesn't take effect for six or seven years, that's different than taking effect in three years. >> then it's not my problem if i'm looking to get reelectricitied. josh, i want to add the white house into all of this. politico published an article saying the president's role in all of this is that president trump might not have one and an aide to a senate republican said that the trump white house doesn't participate in policy. what role should he have in trump care? >> well, obviously, when president obama was working very hard to pass the affordable care act, the white house was playing a chief role in trying to bring democrats and, yes, even republicans to the table to negotiate a workable framework for legislation, for a policy that would reduce the growth in health care costs and greatly expand coverage. and we succeeded in doing that. i think what is true, stephanie, is republicans on capitol hill don't trust this white house and don't trust this president to be making authentically
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conservative choices. they don't trust the president to be disflipped enough to help guide them through this process. and if you think back to the house bill, president trump convened a rose garden ceremony, something that's basically unprecedented, fot overnot over that passed the congress but over a bill that passed the house. just six weeks later in conversations with senators he called that piece of legislation mean. so it's not surprising that republicans on capitol hill would not trust the white house to be an active participant in this process. i think the challenge for them, stephanie, and the risk they're taking is that any member of congress, when they vote for a controversial piece of legislation like this, is going to be looking for cover. and the best way to provide typically is to have the president of the united states out there advocating for you making the case that the bill you voted for was the right thing. and republicans in congress cannot depend on this president to do that for them. >> all right, josh. i have a twofer. you forget if you say unpresence dented in this hour, you owe me
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$2. what the president does have is renewed enthusiasm and it's because of the elections that took place two days ago. none of the drama on capitol hill, all that we've been talking about, seemed to cast a shadow over the president. last night in iowa he was right back to campaign-style trump, feeling it in iowa. just take a listen. >> we are making progress like nobody can believe. all we do is win, win, win. we won last night. i can't believe it. they say what is going on. >> he's obviously talking about karen handel's win in georgia in that special election. i myself spoke to someone inside the white house last night who said president trump had a nine-page speech, yes, he completely went off the teleprompter, he was, you know, letting it rip, but the president has renewed energy. he's saying the media is out to get him and they're wrong. americans don't care about collusion and russia. . they care about the
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administration getting to the agenda. even members of his staff who have been miserable, i spoke to one who said if we get to the agenda, we could really prevail here because democrats, they're not mentioning anything except we hate trump. does president trump deserve in any way to have this new enthusiasm or confidence? he had it on the podium. josh. >> yeah. look, there's no doubt that he is very susceptible to the sort of latest ebbs and flows of the news cycle, which is ironic for somebody who claims to so dislike the media. but, look, he is looking for every straw that he can grasp on to to try to boost the prospects of his administration. the truth is he doesn't have much to show legislatively for the first 150 days or so of his administration, the one accomplishment they can point to is appointing a conservative to the supreme court and that is of course an accomplishment that they got done. but other than, that he continues to languish in the polls. he continues to be in a position where as i was saying before
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republicans on capitol hill don't trust him and aren't that interested in including him in the process. he just doesn't have a lot to show for his tep your here in the early days of his presidency. so it's not surprising to me that one special election he's eager to seize on. i think the american people are expecting a lot more, though, from their president. they're expecting somebody to produce and looking for somebody who will be looking out for them and passing policies that will benefit them. and the truth is this republican health care proposal that's going through the congress right now is one that would be particularly bad for those communities that voted particularly strongly for president trump. and that is going to be a difficult thing for president trump to reconcile in terms of his standing in the polls. it's also going to be a difficult thing for republicans in congress to defend when they're up for re-election in november 2018. >> in terms of the truth, steven kornacki, what does one do in terms of fact checking the president? he stood at that podium last night and said things that absolutely weren't true. he said he put a clause in the
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xl and dakota pipeline saying it must be built with american steel. that's not the case. the majority of pipes were already purchased. it had nothing to do with using american steel. paris agreement, people say it's not binding, it absolutely is. that is untrue. he also said he insisted before going to the middle east an agreement had to be put in place that billions of dollars would be spent by those countries on american-made good. also not true, but it doesn't stick. people hear that and they're going right on, man. gary cohen they say gave up hundreds of millions of dollars. the didn't. he got to sell his goldman sachs stock and not pay taxes on it. it's deferred indefinitely. eventually he will, but the president gets to have these sound bites out there that just get to exist and people are going right on, man, i'm listening to you. well, they're not true. >> i think one of the things with donald trump, and this has been true from the campaign, but i think it's been especially
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true since the election and something they've been -- for my own part trying to figure out. i don't think we have a good sense for all our talk about what trump voters expect from him or what the people who voted for him expect him to do. i don't think we have a really good sense right now of exactly what it is that binds his coalition to him. but i think it's strong. i think it's powerful. i think it's different than past presidents have had. and i think a especially election result like georgia's -- chris matthews talked about it last night at the end of his show and i thought he was on point. we can point to his polls right now, donald trump's polls and say he's at a 37% approval rating. nobody's ever dropped below 50% this early in their presidency, this is a disaster. does any of this sound familiar? he ran the most disastrous presidential campaign we'd ever seen. >> and he won. >> his favorable rating was 35% on election day. that was supposed to be so toxic that he wouldn't just lose, he would lutz in a landslide and he won the election. now democrats can say in these special elections they made
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progress, republican districts all that, you look at this georgia six district, this was the closest thing we've ever seen in a special election in one congressional district to a national election. national money, national personalities, national coverage, national level turnout in that district. and the result in that district, karen handel and jon ossoff was basically like donald trump/hillary clinton in that district. trump looks at that and says for all the noise, the bad poll numbers, things haven't changed with my political standing. >> steven kornacki is speaking the truth. next, special counsel robert mueller returned to the hill yesterday. why at least one republican senator thinks obstruction of justice is now on the table. but before we go, i want you to check this out. pay attention. put your coffee down. capitol police officer crystal griner, who was injured in last week's congressional baseball practice shooting, threw out the first pitch at the annual congressional women's softball game. she bounced the first one but given a second chance she fired a strike.
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is obstruction one of those areas? >> i think that everything's on the table. >> that's of course senate judiciary committee chair chuck grassley talking about the russia investigation, just one of three fast-moving developments we're following this morning. senator grassley made those
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comments before he and leaders of the senate judiciary committee met with special counsel robert mueller on wednesday. also new, acting fbi director andrew mccabe says his agency is providing a, quote, substantial number of personnel to support special counselor muler in the russia probe. and democrats on the house oversight committee are questioning why the white house has not suspended the security clearance for top adviser jared kushner after he failed to disclose his contacts with the russian ambassador on his security clearance forms. joining me now, a man who certainly knows about these kind of laws, attorney bob bennett. he faced off against special counsel when he remitted bill clinton during the paula jones and monica lewinsky scandals. also the author of this, read it this summer, perfect timing, "in the ring,: the trials of a washington lawyer." washington lawyers working overtime right now. when you hear senator grassley say everything is on the table, how do you read that?
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>> i take senator grassley literally. it's all on the table and mr. mueller is nothing if not thorough. i think all of the major issues that have been raised are going to be looked in in great detail by bob mueller, who i know. >> you told "vanity fair" you didn't' obstruction a possibility, but chuck grassley told politico it was something they could pursue. >> what i said, at least what i thought i said was at this moment in time, i did not see obstruction of justice as something that was easily proven. you know, the intent is what is critical here and when the president has the power to do what he did, it's very hard to prove an obstruction case.
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i certainly think there's a possibility of it. but i think the whole russian thing and the connections of mr. trump, if any, or his team and relatives with russia sl a much more serious, serious threat. mr. mueller will follow the matchup. he'll certainly eventually get all the tax returns and that's where i think the greatest threat to the president is. >> given the seriousness of that threat, give us some perspective. you know first hand what it's like to represent a president who's facing a special counsel. what is it like to be on the opposite side of that? because as serious as this is, it's extraordinary that republicans continue to win these special elections. >> well, you know, i had one advantage in certainly representing president clinton.
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while he didn't always agree with me, he didn't undercut me. when i made a public statement he asked me to make. it's out of my sweet spot to talk about political ramifications except that i do believe the president and his legal team thus far have been making a lot of mistakes and are certainly giving the appearance they are guilty -- >> such as what? >> -- of something. well, i think you don't attack someone like bob mueller right off the -- you know, as soon as he's appointed. he is the one who's going to be making the most important decision in president trump's political life. and you should take advantage of
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that investigation to get it off the front page and say let's wait to see what he finds. and so i think that's a mistake. i think the strategy appears to be attack, attack, attack, and i can't think of a worse strategy in a situation like this. i don't know what's to be gained. >> president trump's attorneys may agree with you, but it seems that there's no holding him back. do you believe the president, his twitter action, his attacking, the things he says on the podium, do you think he's his own worst enemy here? >> well, yes, stephanie, i think that's what's going on around the country's right. it makes no sense for him to say he's under investigation and it's a witch-hunt and then his representatives go out and say he's not under investigation. i mean, of course he's under investigation. his conduct is under investigation. i mean, it's clear.
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and what he does, stephanie, is -- i don't mean to equate mr. mueller with count dracula, but count dracula needs fresh blood every day. and mr. trump, president trump, with his tweets and statements, just provides the media with fresh blood every day. >> well, that is quite the comparison. here we go. count dracula and fresh blood. bob, thank you so much for joining me this morning. i sincerely appreciate it. >> my pleasure, stephanie. >> all right. up next, any minute now, republican senators will get their first look at the health care bill. we'll have live reaction including details of what is inside of it. but before we go, how about this rock star moment? a quick update on congressman steve scalise. doctors have upgraded his condition to fair and he is beginning rehab.
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hugely positive sign. yesterday he had a special visitor, u2 front man bono stopped by the congressman's office to meet with the staff and sign a get well card. might be time for bono to sing a little "one" because washington with this health care bill, they need some one love. when this bell rings... starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and. "how to win at business."
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welcome back. you're watching msnbc. i'm stephanie ruhle. time for your "morning primer." everything you need to know to get your day started. tropical storm cindy made landfall in the southwest last night in louisiana near the texas border early this morning where residents could face up to 12 inches of rain and winds over 40 miles an hour. the storm has taken one life so far, a 10-year-old boy in alabama on wednesday. and the fbi opened a terror investigation after a police officer was stabbed at a flint, michigan, airport on wednesday. the 52-year-old suspect allegedly shouted ay eed allah and blamed the u.s. for deaths in sereia, iraq, and afghanistan. u.s. officials say isis blew up a historic 800-year-old mos income mosul overnight as iraqi forces closed in on the militant group in efforts to take back the city. the leader of isis first spoke
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publicly in that mosque back in 2014, announcing the group's creation. and right now family and friends of otto warmbier are gathered for a funeral service in his home tounl of wyoming, ohio. the 22-year-old young man passed away on monday less than one week after returning home from north korea. and the congressional black caucus has rejected an invitation for a second meeting with president trump at the white house. the committee chair wrote in a frustrated letter to the president saying their first meeting in march, quote, fell on deaf ears. many people say a lot of those meetings are photo opportunities and the cbc wants more. well, republican senators are meeting at this moment to finally get a look at that health care bill after weeks of secrecy. and new details about the proposed legislation could start trickling in any moment. we're expecting a full draft of the bill to be released in about an hour and a half. our stellar team of reporters and analysts are here to break down what it means for you, your health care, and your wallet.
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this matters. kasie hunt, you first. live on the hill. what have lawmakers been telling you head into this meeting? >> reporter: hi, steph. a lot of speculation about what this final package is going to look like. we sort of have a sense of the broad contours of the bill and of what we're going to be looking for. i think a key focus here is going to be medicaid. we're getting a sense that the senate bill is going to have deeper cuts to medicaid over the long term, although they may be phased in more slowly. what does that do? it helps the politics of this for the people that mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader, wants to be able to vote for. and i think we need to underscore here, steph, that this policy -- we talked so much about what's in that house bill, doing a lot of comparing what's in the senate bill to what's in the house bill. all fair and good. but the reality is this bill, if, in fact, republicans are going to successfully make this push to repeal and replace at least parts of bom obamacare,
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this is what it is going to look like. this is the policy that is most likely to actually become law. what we're going to be looking for today, we'll be talking to key moderate senators and key conservative senators. this medicaid situation would indicate that they are leaning in a little bit towards those conservatives to who they think may be more likely to jump ship. that's mike lee. that's ted cruz. rand paul who of course has called this obamacare light and said recently he wants to start the whole process over. the other question will be what's in there for the moderate senators like senator rob corbin of ohio concerned about protecting opioids, lisa collins, lisa murkowski, susan collins, et cetera. >> peter alexander at the white house. the white house is somewhat distancing themselves, the president saying this thing needs more heart. what are they really saying about the bill? >> reporter: notable, the president has beenless involve behind the scenes in the process this go-around with senate republicans than he was with house republicans several weeks back. remember then he made all sorts
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of phone call, had numerous meetings at the white house. he met with 13 senators here last week. and last night we heard from the president on the road back in his comfort zone at one of those campaign-style rallies basically saying he hopes we're going to, quote, surprise you with a really good plan. again, he said he wants a plan with heart. he said he told the senate republicans that they need to add more money to this right now. again, he put the blame on democrats as being obstructionist throughout the course of the process and like this administration has been doing for months now, as republicans have been doing for quite some time, he really laid in on obamacare saying it was dead, it was over, that it was dying. but one of the things worth considering here is that some of those insurers, anthem among them, that recently pulled out of the obamacare exchange, in ohio says in part that it's the uncertainty created by this administration that is in effect making their decision to pull out. they say since they don't know if the administration is going to help pay for those subsidies
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for the americans on exchanging in those states it wouldn't be reasonable for them to stay involved. >> one thing anthem is not doing is losing money. those health care companies do extraordinarily well as do their ceos. page whitfield cunningham from "the washington post," what stands out to you the most? what is your biggest wow from what you've learned of what's in the bill? >> from the details e've gathered for the last hour or so, it's mostly a play to moderates to get them on board with a few goodies for conservatives. the medicaid expansion is phased out more slowly, something a lot of the moderate senators asked for and deeper medicate cuts but those wouldn't take effect for about seven years. the biggest thing is this bill would basically retain the subsidies available under obamacare with just a few tweaks. that's a huge difference from the house bill. i think by doing that, you can see mcconnell is trying to provide a softer landing for some of these people who would stand to lose coverage under a
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republican repeal and replace bill. so there are white quite a lot of elements here i think could go a long way towards getting some of these moderate senators on board. conservatives will like the medicaid cuts, they'll like how it repeals some of the individual mandates. i think at the end of the day, those guys are probably going to vote for this. we're still watching -- i think the thing to watch is whether these changes really sway moderates and bring them on board. >> you know who doesn't see any goodies or a soft landing? the millions of women that get their health care from planned parenthood. they would lose its funding. what would the impact of that look like? >> the context is reproductive health care is already a disaster area in the u.s. american kids as far as we can tell have sex at about the same rate as european kids based on surveys, and yet get pregnant and have babies three times as often because they don't have the same access to family planning that european kids do. planned parenthood every year prevents 575,000 unintended
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pregnancies. and i guess more broadly, we had this misperception in the u.s., reproductive health is about abortions, and it's so much more than that. >> yes, yes. pay attention to what he's saying. >>, for example, cervical cancers. every two hours in the u.s. a woman dies of cervical cancer which should not happen in 2017. it's unnecessary. and, look, planned parenthood is 275,000 cervical cancer scre screenings a year without the support for planned parenthood. the upshot is you'll have more unwanted pregnancies, more abortion, and more women dying of cervical cancer. >> steve knows a heck of a lot about all this. msnbc political analyst. we haven't mentioned one stakeholder here that has a lot of power. speak to us about the power and influence of the health care industry, the lobbyists, for example. >> well, when obamacare was being considered in those two years, the health care industry, the hospitals, the drug company,
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the device makers, spent 3 1/2 to 4 times as much on lobbying as any other industry in the united states. and they still spend the most. that's why what was interesting to hear last night that apparently senator mcconnell and his staff met with health care lobbyists before they even met with their colleagues in the republican caucus to go over what's in the bill. now, let's remember, this bill does not repeal obamacare. what it repeals are the taxes on the rich that paid for obamacare and they simply get that money back my take health care away from the poor through the medicaid cuts. obamacare is still there in part because the health care industry likes obamacare. the american hospital association loves obamacare because people show up in the
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emergency room who have health insurance, which they didn't have before. the drug companies like obamacare because more people can buy prescription drugs at the ridiculously exorbitant prices they pay in the united states, because more people have health insurance. so that's why it's staying in place. except they're cutting the subsidies which will affect the middle class and the lower middle class and of course will decimate the poor. >> so, josh earnest, what should democrats' strategy be here or republicans who have to go home and face their constituents over the fourth of july break? >> well, stephanie, i think what democrats have to do is focus on making the argument on substance and making sure that the comparison of the senate bill is not to the house bill but that they're comparing the senate bill to the affordable care act. making sure that people understand the real world consequences of what the senate is poised to do. and i think there's some
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evidence we're having some traction here, stephanie. i want to quibble a little bit with the way we're talking about some of these republican senators that appear to be on the fenls. lisa murkowski, rob portman, shelly moore capito, these are not moderates. they're conservatives, but what they're indicating at least right now is some concern about what impact the bill is going to have on their constituents. lisa murkowski understands that in alaska there are thousands and thousands of people who depend on the affordable care act for their health care. shelly moore capito understands there are hundreds of thousands of people in west virginia who benefit from medicaid expansion so they can get treatment for opioid addiction. so they are in a position where they're susceptible to changing their votes because they actually care what impact the bill will have on their constituents. all these other republican members of the united states senate right now are demonstrating a commitment to ideology and giving tax cuts to the wealthy over the interests
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of their constituents. >> all right. we'll take a break. it's extraordinary. i spoke to a member of president trump's team last night who said we need to focus on our agenda, our agenda is what is winning these special elections and they said we want president trump to focus on the agenda, not on russia. they didn't want him to mention russia in a speech last night. didn't hear much about it, but guess what, he's back. president trump lashing out on twitter just moments ago over the russia investigation, pointing the finger at guess who? president obama. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪
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president trump blaming former president obama for the russia investigation his administration is now facing. just moments ago tweeting this. "by the way, if russia was working so hard on the 2016 election, it all took place during the obama administration. why didn't they stop him?" i want my panel to weigh in. josh, take this one, brother. >> listen, stephanie, a couple important things for people to understand. first is we did stop the russians from succeeding in altering any of the ballot counts or interfering with the ability of americans to cast their ballot on election day in 2016. so from that stand point, and that's what former dhs secretary jeh johnson was talking about before congress yesterday. we did prevent congress from altering those kinds of ballot counts and effectively conducting the election. and the truth is in the weeks leading up to the election, it
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would have been irresponsible for the u.s. government to be warning people or actively worried about russia's ability to do exactly that, because remember, russia's overarching goal here was to try to upset confidence in our ability to have an election. so if you had the federal government actively worried about what russia was doing, that was actually going to do russia's work for them. in terms of eroding confidence in our democracy. >> hold on. we should have been worried. now it's after the fact. the toothpaste is out of the tube so we're going to do an autopsy after when couldn't we have done something more preventative and public at the time? >> stephanie, we didn't do a whole lot publicly again because we wanted to make sure we were instilling confidence in people that we could conduct a free and fair election, and that is exactly what happened. and that happened because of the important work that was taking place behind the scenes. to work with elections administrators in states and local jurisdictions all across the country. that's what jeh johnson was responsible for, what he was
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testifying about yesterday, and we succeeded in that. some of that is also because president obama himself confronted president putin directly back in september when we were in asia at the g-20 meeting in china where president obama confront eed president pun and made clear the united states would not abide russia's interference with that element of our election process. now, what is under investigation right now -- >> except they did. >> what they did do is hacked into the dnc and selectively released e-mails from people like john podesta in an effort to benefit the trump campaign. that has raised a bunch of questions about did the trump campaign know about all of this? there's certainly some indication they did. did they actively collude on all of this? that's something bob mueller and others are investigating right now. and that is worthy of investigation. the real problem we face right now, stephanie, is president trump, because of his fragile ego, refuses to acknowledge that russia was involved in some of these activities, that russia did try to engage in an effort
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to benefit the trump campaign. he unquestionably did that. that is the conclusion of the 17 u.s. government intelligence agencies. so there should be no debate about this, but there should be an investigation to determine what exactly russia did succeed in doing and make sure that when the 2018 elections roll around that they can't do it and we need to make sure that elections architecture, the people responsible for administering elections in localities across the country, they have bolstered their defenses in advance of 2018 to make sure russia can't succeed in interfering. >> nick. >> josh, at the end of the day, there was a fundamental failure here and you said the obama administration was trying to instill confidence in the election results. if that's so, that was a false confidence. the system was hacked. dozens of states had their databases interfered with. more than 100 election officials around the country had their e-mails hacked. and the public simply wasn't aware of scale of that so that
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when loretta lynch canceled jim comey's plan to write an op-ed about this way back in august, you know, i think that the american people was left with a confidence that was simply poorly grounded and may in the end have affected the election results. so i think, you know, obviously we need an investigation to look at what trump did, but i think it's also only fair to look at the mistakes on our side. >> josh, do you want to respond to that? because at the time, people were looking at the wikileaks results. they were looking at john podesta's e-mails. the white house wasn't saying america, stop what you ear doing. this is russia directed to create chaos here. don't pay attention to it. >> well, to be clear as it relates to the podesta e-mails in the first week in october, there was a statement that was worked on by the obama administration that was signed by all of the intelligence agencies of the u.s. government indicating that russia was involved in intervening and trying to meddle in our election process. so that was something that was widely known and actively
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discussed for a month before the election. so there's no mystery about what exactly was going on here, but as it relates to nick's point, look, nick, we did know that the russians were russians were scanning the websites and were trying to find vulnerabilitys in the election systems of local and state jurisdictions responsible for administering these elections. we absolutely did know that. what we chose to do is to work behind the scenes to make sure that russia did not succeed in interfering with the ability of legally registered vehicles to cast their ballot or make sure russia could not interfere to count ballots. we succeeded in that in all 50 states jurisdictions. >> do you think france did a good job to stopping the public's reaction to the narrow street election? >> i think what we saw if france is russia intervened only in the last 72 hours, they tried to capitalize on this unique
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blackout appearance if france t. tactics were different than the tactics they used in the united states the tactics was smaller the strategy was different. it did not succeed if france because of some of the different rules, what i do hope, stephanie, is that both the u.s. government, that can learn from some of what happened in 2016 to more effectively respond in 2018. but the other thing, stephanie, that has to happen is the media, voters across the country as they consume this administration need to learn the lessons of 2016 and understand when they are reading leaked e-mails on wikileaks, that is not an impartial organization trying to be more transparent. >> that is an organization that is wittingly or unwittingly acting as an arm of russian intelligence, the information should be read that way and reported that way by the news media both print and television. >> to josh's point, yesterday, jay johnson said they released this the same way "access
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hollywood" tape came out. we jumped on that tape. >> we jumped on the ""access hollywood" tape. itself remember it was all over the media, wall-to-wall coverage. >> the media. >> look, it's interesting that donald trump is choosing to tweet about this now. i know you were saying his folks have been encountering him not to talk about this last night. at the moment it's interesting. >> couldn't be held back. >> there is a part of donald trump that likes this conversation, it's sort of baiting democrats. i saw chris murphy, the senator from connecticut yesterday saying you know what, this is not actually getting traction outside our hard core base. the democratic active its appalled by donald trump in the campaign, most detested donald trump, formed what they call the resistance, they're the ones who are taking every liss morsel of russia news and it doesn't resonate outside of that so donald trump i read that tweet as him baiting democrats to spend the next five days talking about russia. >> he specifically said when he is in his home state of
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connecticut, he gets on commuter buses and talks about things they are interested in. they do not talk about russia collusion, they talk about taxes, wages and is bob mueller it's his day job? nick? >> look so my touch down of real america is in theanthill, oregon. i think people there do care about the issue of russia collusion. they do care about whether russia interfered in our election. i think you are absolutely right, there are large concerns in the fundamental issues of jobs, indeed health care not in a wompgish way that those do rank much more highly in the hierarchy of concerns. next, nancy pelosi, is se safe in that seat? we've seen other democrats, including tim ryan saying maybe we need time for a change? she said it before. they seem to be underscoring it now. we will have more details on
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that senate republican health care bill emerging, extraordinarily, we learned moments ago, rich mcconnell before he met with those republican senators, he did meet with health care lobbyists. interesting priority. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you!
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answer is, in some areas of the country, yes, she is. >> after another electoral loss, some democrats say a change in leadership might be what they need to turn around their trend. i want to get one last word with my panel and to those tweeters out there, we're not demonizing anybody, we bought the to ask the questions and see what's next. nick. nancy pelosi, stays in her seat or doesn't if the democrats want to move forward? >> well, she will stay, but there will be more questions about her leadership. >> she stays now, if they don't get the leadership in 2018, i think that's it. >> she stay, the reason she has been a successful leader, she thinks one step ahead, she needs to think, any new organization succeeds, any successful organization succeeds by bringing if fresh voices, fresh legssh fresh ideas into that organization and in leadership positions and i'm sure that's something she is thinking about. >> viewers, i want to leave you thinking about this. did you hear what josh earnest said over the last hour, he had
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the same job that sean spicer currently has. just think about. that extraordinary. all right, that wraps us up for the hour. thank you all so much, big, big day, steve kornacki, josh earnest, i'm stephanie ruhle. coming up right now, more news with the woman who is certainly working overtime my friend halle jackson. >> we all are, thank you my friendsh appreciate it. let's talk spilling senate secrets today is a big day as you we heard stephanie talking about federal republicans talking after weeks of closed door talks. we are talking about what's in, what's out and how your coverage can change. also this morning, nancy pelosi facing a little bit of fire from fellow democrats, blaming her for that loss in georgia. some colleagues now calling her a liability. we are getting to that later in the show. right now, it is all about health care, we are t minus one hour of finding out what is in this thing. our political team is here
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covering all of it. we have people launched all across washington. republicans leaning right now on health care, seeing this bill for the first time. they have been doing that the last 25 minutes or so. it's set to post online or maybe sooner, stay right here. these are our top five questions, check it out here, number one, tax credits, will they be based on income like obamacare and not aids? will they roll back tax cuts for the wealthy, will there be money for addiction treatment and planned parenthood, casey hunt, fill us in on what's happening and what answers we may have to some of these questions. >> reporter: he, halle, we are actually a short train ride from where this meeting is happening. we may not be physically in the capitol. many of them pass through here


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