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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  June 26, 2017 6:00am-7:01am PDT

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that's not something any of us would talk about easily in our own names. >> he does it all the time and it makes us uncomfortable. you do have the license to go other places. thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. come back. >> i will. >> let's make this a monthly habit. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage. thanks for watching. >> thank you, mr. scarborough. i am chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. race against the clock. five days to get a health care bill done. can the republicans get the votes? >> there's no way we should be voting on this next week. >> and president trump criticizes president obama for stealing his word for the bill. >> actually used the term mean. that was my term. >> that's not all. the president blaming obama for the russian hacking as well. accusing him of collusion just moments ago. >> he had the information, why didn't he do something about it?
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>> is that president trump admitting the russians did the hack? plus, supreme watch. standing by for big news this hour from the supreme court. will they take up the president's travel ban? but we begin with this make-or-break moment for the senate republicans' controversial health care bill as opposition to the plan erupts on both sides of the aisle. any minute now the congressional budget office could release its analysis ahead of a vote expected to take place on thursday. we have an incredible team of reporters and analysts to break it all down. we want to start with msnbc's garrett haake on capitol hill. mitch mcconnell has made it clear he wants to get this done this week. where do things stand right now? >> well, chris, mitch mcconnell starts with a math problem this morning. he needs 50 of his 52 republican senators to vote for this bill and already five of them have said they can't support it as is. many more than that may be on the fence. >> this is an immoral piece of
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legislation. >> on stage before a crowd of thousands in columbus sunday, bernie sanders reaching for an audience of one. ohio republican senator rob portman. >> if senator portman votes no, the strong likelihood is this bill will go down. >> reporter: his speech part of a targeted campaign to pressure senate republicans into opposing their party's obamacare repeal plan. just three no votes would kill the bill. so far, there are five republican senate noes. >> they promise too much. >> reporter: conservatives rand paul, ted cruz, and mike lee say the final product bears too much resemblance to obamacare. they want it to go further to repeal the affordable care act. >> they say they're going to fix health care, premiums will go down. there's no way the republican bill brings down premiums. >> reporter: while wisconsin's ron johnson wants to pump the brakes on a process that has the senate hurtling towards a vote by friday. >> that's my first point right now is we don't have enough
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information. >> reporter: the information johnson wants could come today. a congressional budget office analysis of the senate's draft. the cbo score on the house health care bill revealed 23 million people would likely lose their health insurance within a decade. many moderates susan collins among the republicans waiting for the cbo score before backing the bill. >> i'm very concerned about the cost of insurance for older people with serious chronic illnesses. >> reporter: president trump setting the stage for success or failure. >> health care is a very, very tough thing to get. but i think we're going to get it. we don't have too much of a choice because the alternative is the dead carcass of obamacare. >> reporter: chris, it's not just democrats using high-pressure tactics to try to swing votes here. there's a pro-trump superpac that's pledged to spend at least a million dollars to try to convince moderate republican
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nevada senator dean hill to swing from a no back to a yes on the bill. >> garrett, thank you. so much at stake. msnbc analyst steven brill, senior writer for politico jake sherman, and my panel, msnbc contributor, former vermont governor and former dnc chairman howard dean and republican strategist noelle nickmore. jake, at least five republicans are a no on this. nine more are expressing some concern. how does mitch mcconnell convince them to vote yes? >> he puts out another bill or does something incredibly drastic to change the dynamics. i'm very bearish today about this passing. >> why? >> given the information at hand. because start out with this opposition of five, the cbo score is going to come out today. everybody that we talked to does not expect the cbo score to look great for senate republicans. and then let's take a step back. the house has to pass this bill. the house needs time to kind of look at this, to absorb it, to -- >> who has suggested they need time to do it?
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listen to mitch mcconnell, they have six, seven years to look at it. you should know it by now. >> but that's not true. they've had six or seven years to consider consider replacing obamacare. republicans took many years to put out their own alternative. why? because this is tough stuff. and the opposition that you're seeing illustrates that, it illustrates that the health care system that democrats passed in 2010 is baked into the economy and baked into a lot of people's lives and republicans haven't really figured out how to get this done. one last point. democrats took a very long time to get this done. months, years. republicans have spent really just five almost six months trying to get this together. >> it's their central campaign promise, they feel the pressure, noelle. if you're mitch mcconnell, is your strategy i'm going to give them a deadline of friday, we have to figure this out? or is it just this is it. take it or leave it. >> this is our health care. this is what americans are
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fepding on. americans don't want change and they're already fearful. you have to realize if you look at party politics, you have to realize for four elections we have been campaigning against obamacare, whether it's been midterm or presidential, one of our key campaign promises is -- >> absolutely. >> how do you walk that line between kefbs, you listen to what consistently rand paul has been saying about the cost of this, the premiums are going to go up, the moderates who say i got constituents screaming bloody murder in my district, how do you walk that line? >> that's why we're under the gun. that's why the pressure is on to do this before their vacation in july, which is basically cramming it down their throats to do it yay or nay. the problem is you have people in states where it doesn't make sense for them to vote for the bill, so unless they come with something different, these guys, nevada, look -- >> talking about dean heller who on friday decided he was against the bill, howard. >> free state. >> then you have america first
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policy saying we're going to spend a million bucks, we'll come out and really make this difficult for you, more difficult than it is. you add to that's what's going on around the country this is a core promise that they made. where does that leave you? >> when the election started the last round and trump was running and nobody thought he was going to win, the democrats were always talking about the civil war and the republican party. it was postponed and here we have it. you have the hard wright, which is very out of step with where the american people are going after their own. dean heller cannot win re-election if he votes for this bill. he cannot and will not win re-election. now what do you have? you have the vice president of the united states going after his own guy and making his situation worse. so this is a civil war inside the party. if they were smart, what they would do is change obamacare around a little bit, a little bit, and call it a victory. >> yeah, but is a little bit going to do it? >> let me just remind everyone. let me just remind everyone, the reason they're having so much
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trouble is that obamacare was a more conservative version of the republicans' health care proposals. the guy sitting on my left here, dr. dean, was heavily critical of obamacare. >> true. >> because it was so conservative. so what obama did was he proposed the republican plan. so now the republicans don't have an alternative because their alternative for the last two decades was obamacare. so they're stuck. that's why they can't come up with anything. the only reason they opposed obamacare was that it had the president's name on it. >> one of the central concerns about this when you listen to what the people who are going to vote it besides the cost, when you -- when they look at the deficit, deep cuts to medicaid. kellyanne conway was asked about this just yesterday. here's what she said about it. >> these are not cuts to met cade, george. this slows the rate for the
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future and allows governors more flexibility with medicaid dollars because they're close toast the people in need. >> so to her point, the senate bill does wind down the expanded medicaid program under obama after 2020. the house bill would reduce medicaid spending pi $800 billion over ten years. is this semantic, reduction, cuts, call it what you want? >> it's just false. it's just not true. the amount spent per person on medicaid will go down in anyone's version of ip inflation adjusted dollars and there will be more people on medicaid because the population grows. so it is a deep cut. the idea that you could take $800 billion out of something and say ohitis going to be just as good and it's not a cut, you know, that's about as accurate as the president saying he saw thousands of muslims cheering on 9/11. fiction. >> you have the president weighing in on this and he's not
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happy with what he heard from president obama. let me play that. >> what do you say to the former president -- >> he used my term, "mean." that was my term because i want to see -- i want to see -- and i speak from the heart, that's what i want to see. i want to see a bill with heart. >> i saw the look on your face. strategically, what's he saying there, noelle? >> i do not know. no. i mean, you know -- >> veto the bill if it passes. >> oh my god. >> i mean, they have the victory in the rose garden. i was there. >> yeah. >> it was a victory. >> right. >> unlike very many i saw covering years of the obama administration. and now it's mean. >> you've got to realize he's preaching so to speak to his base. >> so that's it. >> he's preaching to his base. these are the people that got him elected. but here comes the trick. the people that got him elected are going to be maybe the people that are going to be affected by this health care policy with
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medicaid. so i think it's a slippery slope. >> i also think appealing to the base, it was very instructive for me. i was in iowa and talked to a lot of the people who were at the rally there late last week for donald trump. and i had multiple people tell me basically they didn't care what he said or did that they were going to stick with him, nothing was going to change their mild because he was a disrupter. so, jake, the one thing that we haven't talked about yet as we're waiting on this cbo score, and obviously when it came out on the house version it said it was going to leave 14 million more uninsured next year, 23 million by 2026. this bill, cbo score, could come at any moment. what about the eight or nine people we haven't heard from yet? >> i don't know about them. i think a lot of trump supporters obviously stick with him in this early phase of this presidency no matter what. but i do think this is going to be a problem as you guys mentioned earlier for people like heller, people who are up for re-election in states that
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have been, you know, helped greatly by the health care law. and when it gets back to the house, again, this is a very narrow plank to walk. you have a big problem with conservatives, a big problem with moderates. and i want to add one thing to the last point you made. i spend a lot of time in the capitol and that comment about the bill being mean has lit a lot of people on fire on capitol hill who are just wondering plainly why a president of their own party is dumping on something that they twisted themselves into knots to pass. i think it's going to be a big problem if the president keeps that kind of stuff up because people are going to lose faith in him and lose trust in him very quickly. >> jake sherman, thank you very much. nbc's garrett haake, steven brill, thank you. howard and nicole will stay with me. up next, president trump admits russia interfeefred in the election by pointing the finger at his predecessor for failing to act. then this morning he accuses president obama of collusion. first, as we have just talked about, the senate health
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obama knew about russia a
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long time before the election and did nothing about it. if he had information, why didn't he do something about it? >> president trump reacting to the "washington post" that the president saying president obama knew about russian election meddling as far back as august. just moments ago, president trump tweeting this -- "the reason that president obama did nothing about russia after being notified by the cia of meddling is that he expected clinton would win and did not want to rock the boat. he didn't choke. he clulded or obstructed and it did the dems and crooked hillary no good." let's go to nbc's peter alexander at the white house. a very busy president on twitter this morning. >> definitely a tear. five tweets on this topic alone in the last 50 minutes. let's put up the most recent tweets on this topic. "the real story is that president obama did nothing after being informed in august about russian meddling. with four months looking at russia under a magnifying glass,
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they have zero tapes of t, presumably trump, people colluding, there is no collusion and no obstruction. i should be given apology." this is sort of a political equivalent of a countersuit from the president right now from the president of the united states. some points that are worth making here, one, nbc news has been reporting over the course of the last couple weeks a few things. first of all, during the testimony of james comey, he made it clear among other things that president trump really showed very little interest in what would have taken place in terms of the russians' interference in the 2016 election, frankly their capability to do it going forward. the same holds true for jeff sessions, the attorney general, when he testified before the senate intelligence committee. he said he'd never been a part of any conversation, private, classified briefing about russian interference in the election. and nbc news independently has spoken to state officials in many states that say they have received little information from the federal government in terms of their efforts right now to
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try to crack down on the potential from foreign interference and future elections. even as the president is attacking president obama, the former president of the united states, there's still a lot of questions being directed twartd this president and his administration in terms of what they are doing. also notable how much this president as candidate trump used the russian information provided to wikileaks to his advantage to help defeat hillary clinton, praising wikileaks routinely in the final days of the campaign. chris? >> ah, yes, we all remember that. thank you, peter. joining me is former assistant u.s. attorney mike ackerman along with howard dean and nicole. one of the things the president tweeted, in context. he didn't choke, meaning president obama, there was a part of this "washington post" story where they quote a senior administration official saying basically we choked on how we responded to this. but here, nick, is what president trump said. he didn't choke, he colluded or obstructed. >> this is total hypocrisy.
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president trump during that campaign was doing exactly what vladimir putin wanted him to do, call into question the efficacy of the entire electoral process. if you recall, it was at that point in the campaign when president trump was talking about a rigged election. he was asking that the russians actually hack hillary clinton's e-mail. for president obama to come out and done anything more, particularly when he was obstructed by mitch mcconnell, who did not take this seriously in the first instance, would have just created a political storm that would not have gone anywhere. it would have been very partisan and would have just erupted in finger-pointing, even though all the intelligence agencies confirmed that there was this russian intrusion and that it was done in order to get donald trump elected. this was like a perfect storm of bad situations, all of which came together at the same time.
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>> the bottom line question, though, a lot of democrat are asking this, howard, is whether the president should have done more and you saw in that quote from a former senior administration official who said we choked on this. did in some sense the administration in agonizing over this for five months and saying what should we do, how should we do it, essentially play into vladimir putin and to donald trump's hands? >> well, first of all, when trump tweets you should assume the opposite is so. i had this wonderful teacher when i was at yale who was a political science teacher and had defected from the east german politburpolitburo. he said lies in such a way that not even the opposite is so. you read trump's tweets, almost every single one is something that he's done that he's accusing somebody else of doing. it's fantastic. it's kind of fun. he's a master propagandist. so should obama have done more? probably not. i think i agree with mick. here's the problem he's up against. if he says something, he looks partisan. i hate to say this, because
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we're not tough enough on our side, we're just not tough and mean enough if we want to win elections. the way to do this was to have the intelligence communities leak it to "the new york times" and have them write about it so obama's fingerprints weren't on it. obama never would have dope something like that. for whatever faults barack obama had, he was probably the most ethical president we've had in a very long time. >> off sitting president of the united states, noelle, accusing him of collusion or obstruction to what end? >> well, here's the thing. if you're a republican party leader, if you're a trump follower, you're going to believe the narrative of anything that comes out of trump's tweets or trump's interviews. >> what does that buy him? if that is already there no matter what, what does that buy him? >> loyalty. a continuation of loyalty. you know, it's almost -- it validates what he thinks -- either the people want to hear or what he's thinking.
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oh, you've got to realize when republicans ran, they ran on anti-obama. everything obama did, his policies from, you know, abroad to immigration was a big deal, health care was a big deal. everything that obama stood for or did republicans ran against. and i mean, you know, trump won. you know, the bigger question in this whole thing is we're all sitting here as a panel and discussing this, the tweets. >> right. >> are these tweets -- is this an official white house -- is this -- >> the white house press briefing they have said nobody speaks for the president as well as the president. this is a statement of what this administration policy belief is. this is what the president -- does anybody on this panel have a belief that president trump doesn't think that president obama either is guilty of collusion or obstruction? >> i don't think he thinks anything. i think he just makes up -- >> whatever works for the time.
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>> i do think he believes -- >> i had a 20-minute conversation with the director of the republican party in iowa and every challenge that i gave to him, even about the polls, the polls which clearly show even in iowa, even in places in iowa, he won strongly against hillary clinton that his support was going down. they just say the polls are fake, that the polls -- that we as the media are picking and choosing the polls. having said that, over the weekend, donald trump tweeted, going back, and i'm quoting him here, "since the obama administration was told way before the 2016 election that the russians were meddling, why no action? focus on them, not t!" he feels as though he is being unfairly targeted. where are we with this investigation? >> that's ridiculous. i mean, first of all, this president has no sense of what ought to be done with
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cybersecurity. look at his record. in 2014, seven of his hotels were hacked. they were hacked over a two-year period. he brought in experts to look at the thing. he didn't wind up telling the consumers within the required period of time that they had been hacked. the experts brought in, certain things had to be done. he didn't do any of those things. the hotels were hacked yet again and he was fined $50,000 by the new york state attorney general. this is a man who just doesn't care about policy. he doesn't care about cybersecurity. all he cares about is coming out with whatever strikes him at the moment might be worthwhile politics but it always contradicts whatever he said in the past. history means nothing to this president. >> let's wait and see. there could be more tweets to come. peter alexander standing by at the white house, thanks to all of you. coming up any minute now, we could hear if the supreme court will take um president trump's travel ban. frightening video from the
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skies. passengers aboard a flight from australia to asia reported hearing a loud bang, then the plane began to shake for two long hours, the pilot asking people to pray, twice. >> our survival dpinds on your cooperating.
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coming up on half past the hour, welcome back. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. time for your "morning prime," everything you need to start your day. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is pushing for a vote on the health care bill this week. five republican senators have expressed their opposition. nine more are undecided or haven't said what they'll do. at least six people are dead, dozens more missing after a colombian tourist boat sank sunday. local reports say the vessel was overcrowded, carrying more than 150 passengers with not enough life jackets. but colombia's president denies overcrowding. japan's air bag maker takata has filed for bankruptcy. of course that company has been steeped in lawsuits and recall costs for producing faulty air bags that are linked to the deaths of at least 14 people. a new report from "the washington post" says jared
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kushner's real estate company got a $285 million loan from deutsche bank right before election day. the news comes as special counsel robert mueller continues to look into kushner's business dealings as part of the overall russia investigation. and professional golfer jordan spieth hit the shot of a lifetime sinking an epic blind bunker shot on the first playoff hole to win the travelers championship. he goes vertical to celebrate. meantime, right now, all eyes are on supreme court and a decision that will directly impact millions. any minute now, the court could announce its decision on president trump's controversial travel ban. this is the last day of the current term before the justices break for a long summer recess. joining me is msnbc's chief legal correspondent ari melber. go over for us how the court could potentially rule on this. >> this is a big case everyone's watching and we think of the final decision day of the term as one where we learn where the court stands, are our laws good
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or struck down. this is a little different because we're not this yet. this is the last day and the court could say whether it's going to hear the travel ban case or not, which would just be a scheduling matter or what a lot of folks are excited about and what the trump administration is really hoping is what you see on the top bullet, take up the case and potentially deal with the stay. that's the blocking of the ban, so the biggest potential news this morning, which i guarantee would rile up the whole country, is they could lift the block on the travel ban, translation, reinstate it while the case moves forward. >> so the trump administration could move forward on it while they rate waite to see what the overall ruling on it is. >> exactly. that would be the biggest thing. we in the news, i'm sure sometimes people a come up to you and talk about what we cover or don't cover. if it happened, everybody would say why haven't i heard about this before 9:40 a.m. if this is going to be the biggest thing in the day? >> hold on. pete williams just told us that the list came out for today.
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it's not on it. maybe tomorrow. >> so that's breaking news. >> big breaking news. so we were hoping to get this decision today. it's not on the list. >> what that tells you according to pete williams, who is, of course, our guy right inside the court, is that they are not putting it on the calendar, that is, they have not granted cert yet. so we will hear presumably later, maybe tomorrow, whether or not they hear the case. basically, to be clear, because the legal stuff can get down the rabbit hole, everything we said applies but we won't learn that yet today. ultimately, they still have to decide if they want to schedule hearing the case at some point and leave the status quo, which is what many people expect. because lower courts block the ban, they might leave that block in place or because of the supreme court, do they change it. >> this is confusing to some people because we said this is the last day of the term and yet they could put this off till tomorrow. >> the supreme court does whatever they want to do. this is the last day of the term for decisions which are what we call merits cases, so who wins
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and loses, the case that have been argued. granting cert means scheduling future cases. sometimes scheduling a case without a big issue like we had with the travel ban, or not at all. the more liberal ninth circuit and the conservative fourth circuit have both said we'll block it as they go. when they decide if they want to hear it, they have to decide whether to continue to block it or not. >> we only have a minute left, but will or will not 80-year-old justice anthony kennedy decide to retire. he has been the key vote on so many critical cases. >> justice kennedy, 80 years old, a reagan appointee, longest serving member of the court, 29 years. that's why there's been so much intrigue. i can only tell you facts. the facts are he has hired the full amount of clerks for next term, he did hold a reception recently with some former clerks and we got little leaks and sbretsing tidbits out of that but no indication he has any
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plans to change. we are all waiting. >> some suggested he talks about it but to you're 80 chances are you talk about retirement at some point. >> one would think. what does a strong supporter of the health care bill who dined with president trump ahead of that vote think of the president calling the house bill mean? first, incredible video from a new york six flags. a 14-year-old girl somehow slipped out of her seat on the sky ride. fellow visitors gathered below and caught her as she dropped 25 feet. look at that. she struck a branch on the way down, was take on the hospital, but only treated for minor injuries. talk about some good samaritan heroes. s nutritional needs... all in one. purina one. healthy energy, all in one. strong muscles, all in one. highly digestible, and a taste he loves, all in one. purina one smartblend is expertly blended...
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don't start humira if you have an infection. just managing your symptoms? ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. an analysis from the congressional budget office on the senate's replacement for obamacare could come any minute now ahead of a vote planned for thursday. the bill is already meeting opposition from republicans. five senators say they're against the bill in its current form. another nine are voicing concerns as well. republican congressmen francis rooney of florida joins me now. he supported the house version of the health care bill. good morning, congressman. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me on, chris. >> if you were one of those senators voting tomorrow, would you vote yes on this version of the bill? >> yeah, i think i would. i think these senators need to remember that they can't paid on repealing and replacing obamacare. >> rand paul says this is in no way a repeal. >> i think this is about the
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most conservative -- particularly the house bill is the most conservative, responsible effort we're going to see to shift the gears of how insurance is provided to people for medical. >> you don't have any concerns about premiums going up? >> i think if we can bring choice, selection, and competition back into the nongroup policy market through this tax credits and premiums will go down and deductibles will go down. it doesn't do any good to have low premiums if the deducts have so high the people can't use the insurance. >> you say you think it will, but what is the confidence level? there is a slew of analyses and you know they're out there, that suggest the exact opposite of what you're saying and in fact those who would be hurt the most are those who would, in fact, be those who have the most difficulty, the poor, the elderly, the people most in need of the help that obamacare provides. >> see, we need to focus on the two distinct aspects of the
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overhaul. one is the insurance for people that will buy -- the insurance that people will buy through the tax credit program who are above the poverty multipliemultiplier there's the medicaid reform. both are too two distinctish shouse and both i think have favorable outcomes under the house bill. >> if the cbo score comes out on this senate bill and suggests the same thing that the cbo score on the house bill showed, which is that millions of americans would lose their health care under this bill, you still would support it? >> absolutely i would. remember that the voodoo economics of the cbo score was faulty the first time around and "the wall street journal" covered that very well. you know, it assumes that nobody will buy insurance unless they're mandated to by a statist system like obamacare. doesn't give any credit for behavioral modification and insensitive through the tax credits. it also takes -- does not take into account the ability of governors to lead and redirect
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medicaid in their states the way medicaid was intended to be as primarily a state-oriented benefit with some subsidy from the federal government, not vice versa. >> you cite "the wall street journal." let me sitecyte the center on budget and policy priorities which says this is basically a program that -- a bill that makes sure that the wealthy get tax cuts. the savings, a lot of it is expected to go in this bill toward tax ut cuts and in fact what the senate on budget and policy priorities have found is that $7 million is the tax cut, a year, that each of the 400 wealthiest families in america will get as a result of this. that's okay with you as people are losing their coverage? >> see, i happen to think that tax cuts to stimulate investments, which is what this tax cut is. obama put in a tax on investments. cutting those taxes are very important to stimulate investments and job creation. sometimes these people don't seem to understand how capitalism works.
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when you incentivize investment, people deploy capital, create jobs, build companies, and put more people to work so they can afford all these things handle not have to be on medicaid. >> we're talking about tax cuts of $7 million for the 400 wealthiest families. i want to ask you about the other thing people are itching to talk about if i can, and that is, is it possible -- and i know a lot of republicans are waiting for this day, that anthony kennedy might retire, we don't know if it will happen. there have been rumblings. you had dinner with him recently. did he seem someone on the verge of retirement to you, congressman? >> you know, yeah, my wife and i had dinner with the kennedys at an event last week and sat next to them. i have to tell you u i hope i have half the mental agility and physical agility and perspicacity that the justice has if i ever get to be 80. i don't know if he'll retire or not. >> perspicacity at 9:43 in the morning, most people would say your mental agility might be okay. he didn't talk about retirement at all at that table? >> no, he didn't.
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he was talking about a lot of cases and just -- he's got a great sense of humor, very witty. very much alive. i also sat next to him at the friendly sons of st. patrick dinner back on st. patrick's day and had a fantastic three-hour visit with him. >> congressman, thank you so much. we will see what happens with the senate health care bill and what may or may not end up back in your house. thank you so much. >> thanks, chris. up next, breaking news. the supreme court has just agreed to hear an appeal from a colorado bakery that refused to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples. what a ruling from the court could mean.
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many insurance plans cover chantix for a low or $0 copay. we have breaking news from the u.s. supreme court coming to us just moments ago, the announcement it will hear an appeal from a colorado bakery that refused to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples. ari melber is with me along with former governor howard dean and nicole. what does this mean? >> this means the supreme court will weigh into a very big debate in the area of same-sex marriage and rights. this is a colorado baker who said he didn't want to make a cake that was for a same-sex couple because of his own religious beliefs. that ultimately was ruled as a
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discrimination act by a colorado civil rights commission and they're going to take the case. if you ever have a conversation that's difficult and put it off, anyone ever done that? the supreme court put off whether it was going to hear this case over ten times, chris. that is very unusual and it suggests obviously some sort of tension at the court. we don't know what because we don't get into those private conferences. but it took them many times to decide whether to hear the case, the breaking news this hour. they're going to hear it. and it's going to test wh the supreme court wants to set some kind of national rule for these issues. on the one side, people who say i run my own business, free market, free spirit, i can decide who i want to serve, and on the other hand, longstanding rules that say in the area of commerce, we don't as a country generally allow people to discriminate on certain protected classes to say, well, i don't want to serve people in my restaurant because of their race or because of their sexual orientation. >> and this obviously it's about a bakery that was baking a a
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kag, but if you didn't want to look at weddings, there's florists, fracher, all sorts of businesses that would be impacted by this. how important is this? >> it's not just that, it's why should i serve two gay people if my religion says religion says give you an example. until relatively recently, mormon church didn't believe black people could become ministers, they had a different view of black americans than white americans. does that mean i can decide if i am a mormon store owner, does that mean i don't have to serve black people. this is a slippery slope. i think separation of church and state, which is being attacked in other areas that are more difficult, like the case in missouri, whether you want to fund a catholic school playground with state dollars. that's a little safer. but i think this is a tough one if they decide this the way that they might, because it is a very conservative court. i think we're in for a real ride on separation of church and
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state. >> i understand there's another new ruling that's just come out on birth certificates. >> the other ruling is basically rejecting some of what we've seen in what you might call resistance, what some called civil disobedience to recognition of same-sex marriage rights on birth certificates. this is as expected. the court already spoke, talking about justice kennedy, he was the key vote in same-sex marriage decision. since then, some states found various ways to try to push back. this is a very clear and straightforward ruling also coming out of the court basically saying stop messing around, same-sex marriage is law of the land, and that's to all rights, including the subsidiary question of birth certificates, listing parents, et cetera. >> so you have a situation where it's clear, especially in the area of gay rights, this country moved very, very quickly. the problem for a lot of republicans is they do have
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these constituents. one of the reasons they wanted change, especially the strong religious right, nicole, they wanted to believe that their position is this is what i believe, you can't make me do something that i don't believe in my heart, in my faith is against what i believe. >> you know, it is a slippery slope. >> you're agreeing with howard. >> in the case of what she said about the birth certificates, that was my home state, arkansas. the clerk refused to put a female as the father. and i think in that case that's extremely discriminatory. that's law of the land. gay marriage is a fact, it is a law of the land and you have to, no matter what your feeling is that you work for the federal government, you work for the state government, that's the law of the land. you put down the woman's name as the father. end of story. in the case of the baker i think that's a little different because who is being violated? the guy baking the cake that's against, it is not part of --
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are you ignoring his belief or the gay couple that feels discriminated against because the cake maker is refusing themselves. i think that's probably why the court, it is a very slippery slope. who exactly is being violated. >> the other piece to this, you know this is a rich debate in law and politics is the role of corporations, right. we heard that corporations are people. that's a legal fiction as they call it that's been widely debated. these cases echo some of the obamacare case debates about what companies can do and it raises the question whether corporations have a soul. i know that sounds a little far reaching, but that's what this is about. again -- >> certainly was in the hobby lobby case. >> that's the hobby lobby argument. critics look at this and say we're going into a church, and we're going into a home, not going into sunday school, we're looking at the commercial
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marketplace. ultimately businesses are regulated. one of the other pieces of the slippery slope, if you start to say all corporations have a soul, have religious rights and values, can discriminate or decide accordingly, it creates wide corporate loopholes, even if you step out of religion and say wow, what about an environmental issue where a corporation says well, we found that our soul, our religious values of the corporation means we want exception to environmental laws or labor laws. >> what about religions that believe women are not as equal to men. can you decide not to serve women in your business? my view, if you hold out you're a business open to the public, you have to be open to the public. >> we're talking about a handful of cases so critical. how nervous is the left about retirement of justice kennedy? >> i can speak for myself. i'm nervous. kennedy is a conservative but he is a conservative who made a huge difference to every lesbian and gay american in granting
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equal rights. he is the only pure conservative. even justice roberts who is bright, i think i did logically directive in, i think kennedy looks at this case by case. he is the swing vote. we prefer he not retire, but this is obviously not our call. >> howard, nicole, thank you. busy morning. coming up, much more on the republican health care bill. cbo score could come at any moment. but before we go, you have to see this. they say to dance like nobody is watching. if you're the senate minority leader, someone is always watching. that's senator chuck schumer, fill busting a move at a party in brooklyn. for a 66-year-old, he is not so bad. or maybe.
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that wraps up this hour. i am chris jansing. coming up, more news on a busy monday with hallie jackson. >> thanks very much. we are kicking off a jam packed 60 minutes here, with any minute word expected from the supreme court on big deal decisions. we're waiting on that call on the president's travel ban. and we're already getting a preview of some cases the court will hear next term. also headed across the street where it is all about the numbers game on capitol hill. two big numbers specifically. the first, health care head count. five republicans now a no.
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could that change? any other number, how much the new plan will cost. could find out as early as today. lots to get to for the next hour. i want to go to kasie hunt on capitol hill. walk us through where things stand now. voting timing which may be a question mark. some of the senators who may be question marks. what have you got? >> reporter: there's a lot of question marks, including whether or not this week will be what we've been told leadership wants it to be, which is conclusion finally of this health care debate that's consumed the first six months of this republican congress. that's what mitch mcconnell, john cornyn, other leaders went into the weekend wanting. what we heard from senators, ron johnson on "meet the press," susan collins as well, both saying they don't see how this can possibly get done this week. watch the calls for delay from some of the critical senators because that could really have significant impact. as of


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