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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  July 6, 2017 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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presidential or he shouldn't have done that. it doesn't change ultimately the force donald trump is trying to put in play that is building up this relationship between putin and himself, united states and russia. >> former rnc chair, michael steele. and former clinton campaign jess mcintosh joining us on this hectic day. it is 9:00 p.m. in hamburg, germany. that's where donald trump is. he is there at g20. he just met with angela merkel, german's chancellor. there are a number of violent clashes between protesters and police have have been ongoing for about the last hour and half. this all comes right before donald trump has his very first face-to-face meeting with the russia president tomorrow. all ice will be watching that. i will hand it off to my colleague. ali, take it away. >> this is not how i thought the
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day would go a few hours ago. hamburg, germany, center of the universe ooze every major world leader is showing up for the world summit. chaos in the streets. about an hour ago, tension boiled over. water cannons and some sort of gas tossed into the crowds to get them to disperse. let's get right to the action this afternoon. pair of first-rate journalist is for us. kier simmons has been in that mess for a while. kier, let me start with you. we have pictures on the left and right of the screen. different shots of what has become a much, much calmer protest than it was a little over an hour ago. people were running, police running beside you. people on the ground. give us an update as to what is happening and what's happening now. >> still what seems like tear gas in the air, but there is a
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lot less tension here. protesters have been allowed to move in this direction which we think is the direction of trump, that the march is always allowed to go in. there was an agreement with police there would be a legal protest but as you mentioned, what happened while we were standing between the protesters and riot police, who lined up across the street, some way in that direction, and what happened as far as i could see was that the police fired tear gas into the protesters and the protesters then began to dispurse as you would imagine. my face is still stinging from it. then the riot police pushed forward the water cannon came in, began firing intermittently and then there were running back between protesters an police. i should say, you know, this protest has been titled "welcome to hell."
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and a group of protesters, dressed in black, covering their faces, standing in a military style in front of the riot police. again we are seeing the police move in. it is hard to tell. >> yes, we see them back in your shot. >> it is as if they are redeploying to prevent demonstrators from going in that direction. i think can you see in the distance here some of the hamburg port, which of course this city is a major trading city. also a city where a large left wing community. many of people did not want g20 to happen here. many other protesters have come to demonstrate. and among the 100,000 they expected, around 8,000 came in order to stage this kind of violence, see this kind of
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violence, to see clashes with the police as we have seen in so many of these g20 gatherings. g20 summits. if i just take you in this direction, i think there is now another standoff with the police. a little more calm than we saw earlier. they are relatively relaxed and happy at this stage. i will take you to the police front line where they again appear to be again not wanting this demonstration to move any further. you can see a fairly substantial line of riot police. behind them, water cannon, in position which have been firing when they considered it
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necessary targeting protesters. the police seem know who they are looking for. we have seen people arrested, kind of out of the blue a little bit. so they seem to be pinning down particular groups and at the same time, letting the main protest, which demonstrators estimate is about 10,000 people continue in thety re direction d been planned. it had planned to start earlier than it did. >> let me just remind our viewers and you are looking at two sets of pictures. on the left an armored vehicle behind a line, very deep line of police, with water cannons standing off against a group of protesters. that looks caught at the moment. but this started in 19 the 6, the g20. and they used to be finance ministers and central bank governors. in 2009 after the financial
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crisis it became a meeting of world leaders. in 2009, in london and pittsburgh, we saw large, large scale riots almost. this became something different from t the usual protesters. this erupted in violence. but what you see here is a crowd of peaceful protesters. they are given permits in protest. what happen said a certain crowd who has in some fashion engaged police. they told kier that police engaged them. but the bottom line is police and protesters came into conflict. this is in the commercial city of hamburg where the g20 is being hosted. it is more than 20 countries. 19 plus the european union representing european members. all leaders are there. kelly o'donnell is there as
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well. kelly, has any of this spilled over into the area that you're in? >> only in that we can hear it and see it. i'm across the river from where kier is. it is a tale of a couple of different images in hamburg. at the airport, prime minister of india is aarriving based on the air india super liner that just landed at the airport. i can tell that you president trump in his motorcade is now headed to where he will spend the night. meaning his dinner is concluded with the prime minister of japan. and president of south korea. the pool of white house journalists remain close with the president and within his official delegation motorcade say if it were not for twitter they would not know the protests are even happening. that gives you a sense of where president trump and chancellor angela merkel and other leaders are holding their meetings,
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having their dinners, conducting the official business of the g20 quite different than the experience here on the ground among protesters. i believe kier may have reported but let me repeat, the police took away the permit for the protest. we are hearing from angela merkel's spokesperson that meeting she had with president trump covered issues you might expect from north korea to trade to ukraine. it was a constructive one on one closed-door meeting that happened a couple of hours ago. of course angela merkel, host of the g20 here in hamburg. a very different experience. we have been hearing bangs throughout the hours where this has certainly gotten much more active. we've seen smoke in the air above the area of hamburg where kier and others have been reporting from.
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we've seen police boats and vehicles and helicopters overhead. quite calm except for sensory aspects. knowing it is happening not far from us but hamburg is operating tonight. there is this very visible protest we are seeing these extraordinary pictures and at the same time diplomacy and international trade talks and relationship building is also happening. seemingly unimpeded. ali? >> yeah. since these large scale protests began in 2009 at g20, before 200 the, as a business reporter, i used to cover these. no one cared. no one went to them. but since leaders started showing up they learned to have car doors and perimeters. the leaders won't encounter this. they keep the leader entirely separate from it. thank you for pointing out where
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you are. the g20 is going on as planned. hans nichols, i think he is at the pentagon, hans, you lived in hamburg. tell us what you are seeing and learning. >> i lived in berlin for three years. i know hamburg well. what german police are saying on their official twitter feed is that the protest spread to st. pauly's. the german police are claiming the protest has been cancelled. the demonstrators that applied and had their permit pulled that permit and that the demonstration is cancelled. at the same time one of the main organizers of the protest, is in hamburg, she is claiming the police started the violence. they initiated it. they started these attacks. very difficult to report this from afar. least on social media what we are hearing from the german police as well as organizer is that the protests have indeed
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spread. hamburg is a very wealthy, perhaps the wealthiest city in germany but also has a strong tradition of the left. you look at government in power there. 45% are the social democratic party. left got about 12% in last elections. greens around 13. this is left of center city that is also very commercially prosperous. i should also note that hamburg was upset about brexit. like a lot of cities in northern germany they look towards england for trade for long-term commercial stability. ali? >> this is contained at the moment as we expect usually han hans, you're not getting any reports of this tiech thing breaking out anywhere else in germany? >> it hasn't spread. on most may days you will usually have an audi in some
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neighborhood set affaiire. ikea in downtown has been damaged. as well as porsches that may have been damaged. when there are left of center holidays, may day is a big holiday in germany, there are protests that get violent. not however, on this scale. >> thanks. you will stand by and continue to cover this. we will keep a very, very close eye on the protest. we are also talking a lot about what is happening at the g20. the meetings and the fact trdond trump is meeting with vladimir putin. david, good to see you, thank you for being with us. >> good to see you, ali. >> in the backdrop of all of this there is a meeting that will happen tomorrow. first ever between donald trump and vladimir putin. vladimir putin has some very key
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objectives that he needs to achieve whether it's at this meeting or just generally with the united states. but the united states led a series of sanctions as a result of russia's incursion into crimea and the ukraine. and these sanctions have been crippling to russia's economy. >> right. after the russianis went into crimea and ukraine in spring 2014, we put in place a series of sanctions. some on individuals. but the powerful ones focused on russian financial institutions and russian ability to exploit their energy resources. that along with the decline in oil prices that occurred at about the same time, has add very powerful impact on the russia economy. and has caused significant pain in the russian economic situation. and you can tell, by the way, how important that is to president putin because he
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sought to have these sanctions relieved. that's the best indication that these sanctions have real bite. >> you know, by some estimates, the total value or the total benefit to the russian economy of oil is maybe 60% of the economy. 50 to 60% of the economy. sanctions and low price of oil for the last several years have done a great deal of damage. and yet by some perspective, vladimir putin goes into the meeting over donald trump because donald trump won't acknowledge what others, include something intelligence agencies acknowledged, that russia meddled in the 2016 election. >> it is not just some intelligence agencies. it is the cia, nsa, fbi, all operating under the dni, who concluded that last year at the
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direction of putin, the russians tried to undermine the faith in the u.s. democratic process and at the same time trying to den grate secretary clinton and assist donald trump. but the frankly incomprehensible aspect of this is that donald trump has not been willing to acknowledge what his intelligence community concluded. concluded with high confidence. that's that vladimir putin himself was trying to undermine the public's faith, american people's faith, in the u.s. democratic process. he should be going into that meeting tomorrow and the first thing out of his mouth aught to be, i know what you did. it was totally unacceptable. and if you try anything like that again, you'll have hell to pay. that ought to be where donald trump start out that meeting. but not having acknowledged what the u.s. intelligence committee concluded, csi, nsa, fbi, all
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working with the -- >> you're in a second part of hamburg than what leaders are. this areas designated for protest. we are trying to determine if that protest, the police say is cancelled, but no one is moving from where you are. >> yeah. yeah, good question. i can tell you what we are skpeering here, which is that police have now allowed while it looks to me like thousands of kem demonstrators. let me show you first. can you see the police line, water cannon, riot police, still fully fitted out. then in this direction, can you see better than i can from the camera, i can't get as high as they can with the camera, it looks like thousands of demonstrators still on the street here. what is happening is that police
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are steadily allowing them to make their way along the streets. it does seem as if the protest is continuing even though the police say the protest is no longer taking place. they will want it remove the protesters from the area they were gathered and generally like to try to do that before nightfall. as you witnessed in earlier hour we, there were running watt els between protesters and police. there was a tear gas. can i still feel it. there were water cannon fired intermitt lint. . so that continued i guess for 45
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minutes. it was kchaos, really. then as it they decided to disperse, many dressed in black and covering their faces and standing off with the riot police, once that happened, they then began to allow this march to make its way along the street here. as you can see, there is a wide dwr fwrup group of peaceful and relax proed testers. >> when you say different points to make, i've been listening to your interviews with a lot of them. this is tradition of g20 going back it link 2,0000. some of the point is they don't like the g20 and that it represents a very concentrated, you know, concentration of wealth and power that they say doesn't benefit a lot of the working class around the world.
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>> yeah, that's exactly right. while we talk, let me move us in this direction a little bit. so i can give you a better view of what the protesters are seeing. that this is the police front line. to answer your question, there are many, many different groups here. they always do gather together at these meetings to make their very different points. so i guess this has added cogency, ali, because of the tension we see surrounding this g20 meeting with president trump here. with the conflicts that he is having a with a number of world leaders. we have talked about many times the difficulties in their relationship even between the german chancellor, angela merkel who the police officers work for, and donald trump. so all of that tension within the meeting and particularly of
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course the much-watched meeting of putin and now all of these g20 protesters. >> we will keep coming to you and following this. it is 9:19 p.m. in hamburg. sun sets at 9:50 p.m. they have a half an hour of daylight. this protest is not in the same vicinity as the meetings that are going on that president trump is with along with the couple of leaders, couple of dozen countries. i want to go back to david cohen. with me, former deputy director, undersecretary of the treasury. we are talking about an important meeting that happens tomorrow between donald trump and putin. and david you were saying though not expecting that donald trump should go in there and say this is what's happening.
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we know you've been doing in the election. you need to stop or there will be hell to pay. is there more hell to pay for russia? is there more that if the president of the united states would agree with the intelligence agencies that russia was behind the hacking and directed by vladimir putin, is there more america can do to put the screws to russia? >> for sure there is. when we impose the sanctions, for russia's activity in ukraine, we did if in a way that left a lot of head room effectively. sanctions we imposed on the financial institutions were calibrated in a way we could dial up the pressure on russian financial institutions if that's what we wanted to do. we could dial up pressure on russia's energy septemberor. there is a whole host of things we can do just following through
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on sanctions we have previously imposed. and there are a range of additional sanctions that we've never imposed on the russians we have used elsewhere. that could also inflict in some substantial pressure on the russia russians. i will tell you, one of the things that i expected when donald trump took office and presented with the findings from the intelligence community, is that he would stand up as the american president that point in january and follow through on actions we took at the end of the obama administration. clearly he took a different tact and that was terribly disappointing. it sends exactly the wrong message to the russians that they effectively got away with what they did in the -- in our election last year and could get way with it again, which is the most disturbing aspect. >> and continue to get way with
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it if the united states doesn't hold them to account for it. david cohen, stand by. we will take a quick break. we will continue our live coverage of the protest going on, on the left side of your screen. president trump is meeting with the leader of south korea. looks like another tear gas canister may have been fired into the protest. we are talking about this. also talking about north korea. well cover all this when we come back. stay with us. >> as far as north drkorea is concerned, we will see what happens. i don't like to talk about what i have planned. but i have some pretty severe things that we are thinking about. doesn't matt mean we are going to do them. this
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live pictures here of hamburg, germany. for hours protesters have been clashing with police outside the g20 summit where nearly every major world leader is in attendance. keir simmons is there. kelly o'donnell is nearby. world leaders are focused on that meeting and on north korea after the launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile on tuesday. james mattis said, quote, i do not believe this capability brings us closer to war. this is president trump has had harsh words for north korea
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today when he was in poland. listen. >> president and i calling all nations to confront this global threat and publicly demonstrate to north korea that there are consequences for their very, very bad behavior. >> let's talk about the nonmilitary options available to the united states to confront north korea. i want to bring in kelly, former assistant secretary for asian affairs for the department of defense. bring back david cohen. was a deputy director of cia and undersecretary of treasury for terrorism and financial intelligence in the obama administration. he knows about all things sanctions related. kelly, let me ask you about this. if military options are on the table, but not the likely option, not the preferred option, this is a country that has signalled and a willingness to get into it with the united states, south korea, allies in
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our region, what is it that we know about korea where we can apply leverage? >> i think it is a good sign that secretary mattis went out and tried to turn down the volume a little bit on the rhetoric. i think that's important that potential for miscalculation on kore korean peninsula is pretty high. thousands of u.s. troops and korean troops staring at north korean troops on the other side of the border on a daily basis. they are already on a hair pin trigger. it is good that mattis chose to turn down the volume on that. i will say keeping options on the table is smart tactically. i think options need to remain on the table as tool but as a last resort. >> david, as we have pictures up, police in hamburg are advancing slowly. police have told journalists
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that the protest is over and cancelled but clearly we have keir simmons in the middle of it so it is clearly not over. there are people in the street. we are 20 minutes from sunset in hamburg, germany that police are moving to clear the streets in a very slow manner. . david, you and i had a conversation about the way to put the screws to russia in terms of financial sanction. it seems it is much more logical to put pressure on those patrons of north korea, clearest of which is china. do we have, as you described it, head room to do that? >> we do. the mechanism for putting pressure on north korea is principally to go where koreans are are doing most of their international business and that is in china. doing their legitimate business and illicit business.
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there are ways to go after essentially the nodes of economic activity that support the elites in north korea. supports the regime in north korea, that are residents in china. among financial institutions, trading companies, other businesses. i think that's part of what we should be doing going forward. i think it could be a two-stage or dual-track approach. one is to defend and deter. other is to explore the possibility of some kind of negotiated resolution and part of that is increasing sanctioning. >> let me ask you this, if you're china, if your x ping, you don't want the goal that the americans have of a denuclearized north korea, so what do you want in what
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pressure can you put on china? they have an ally there. they got cheap coal. customer for their oil. what is china's motivation to do anything about north korea? >> china values stability above all else. when trump sees president shee gentlem ski ping, the chinese won't believe we are serious therefore they won't put their pressure north korea. i think tomorrow's meeting with ping is equally as important as the president's meeting tomorrow with putin. >> david, you were puzzled when you realized that trump administration won't be tougher on russia even though it had available tools to do so. why if we've got these options have we done so little with respect to china? i guess president trump was hoping his mara laggo meeting
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with ping would yield for fruit and by now maybe something would have happened? >> right, initially trying to get the chinese do do whaty was saying. put pressure on china to put pressure on the key ingredient track. donald trump now seems it wasn't a fruitful endeavor, to greet the chinese with kindness. so the move i think that is necessary, as kelly says, is to make sure that chinese and xi jinping know we are hold out risk and put pressure on the chinese in order to encourage the chinese to join us in putting pressure on the north
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kor koreians. t we need the chinese to join us in that effort. >> i heard it said, kelly, that the chinese are so interested in the increasing economic role they are playing in the world, all over the world, that they might be inclined to say all right, we can give up a little bit on north korea to avoid these types of sanctions. to avoid the united states getting economically tough on us. the united states is the goose that laid the golden egg for china. >> chinese trade with north korea is not economically a big number. maybe a couple billion dollars in six monthes. it is not an economic question for the chinese. it is a political question for the chinese. i think trump needs to sit down with xi jinping and talk to him about the peninsula. what does it look like if we hit the brink of war. i think those are the conversations we need to have with the chinese and talk about the end game. how we work together to build stability on the peninsula
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rather than where we are now which is on the brink of war. >> i have to ask you, mattis saying this doesn't bring us closer to war, what does? what has to happen to make americans think we are closer to war? understanding war and the korean peninsula is a very dangerous matter. with the defense agreement with south korea, with the japanese, 28,500 troops there. what gets us closer to war? >> a couple of things. one is as simple as provocation. as i said earlier, chance of miscalculation is pretty high. now that north koreans are close to having a full capability of hitting the united states with a nuclear weapon, in their mind that might them think they can do more conventional provocation. cross-border raids. artillery shelling. that can start a conflict quickly. another thing that would bring us to the brink of war is of
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course potential area where they are loading icbm and threatening the homeland. in that case is preemptive strike options which are legal. >> you are making an interesting distinction between tests versus provocative actions. u.s. and south korean response to this last nuclear test was to test fire stuff off the waters into south korea. these tests are meaningful if that they are not actual war prove vagss. not actually against another country that's an interesting distinction. this is not war against someone until it is something that looks like war. >> they are practice exercises. they are legal under international law. so the notion we should suspend them to build negotiation is an absurd argument. >> great and meaningful conversation at a very tense
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time right now. kelly, former acting secretary for asian security affairs for department of defense. david cohen, former director of cia and undersecretary for financial intelligence. thank you for for being here. we are watching the situation in hamburg. it is about 10 minutes from sunset. keir simmons is on the ground in the middle of the violent protest. i think that's his camera on the right. we will take a break and come back and see what is going on in hamburg. so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.
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get help right away for unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you've had spinal anesthesia, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle-related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures... ...and before starting xarelto®-about any conditions, such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. it's important to learn all you can... help protect yourself from a stroke. talk to your doctor about xarelto®. there's more to know™. breaking news. five minutes to sunset in hamburg, germany. that protest is not finished. keir, we have been hearing that the protest is over. i think you're living, breathing proof that it's not. >> yeah. the protest isn't over. whatever the police say. now, look, what might be happening here is the police may be controlling the protest, and
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moving it way from the square. mostly it is a tried and tested police tactic to move protesters, to give them a way to move away. that can be quite effective. as you can see, moving around to show, if he goes higher, you can see, there is a fairly substantial group here despite running battles we saw with police, despite tear gas that our team can feel on our skin and throats, despite water cannon. now just point it that way, you can see the water cannon still there, still able to be used by the police if this gets out of control. slow slowly backing away. oh, someone just -- you didn't see that but someone just threw
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a bottle and just caught me on the head which is why you can see most protesters not wearing helmets. that's why we still wear them. further on, you can see the front line of the police i think we are staying with the front line and giving you pictures. as you know, where you go with the camera and it makes a big difference of what a protest looks like. it is worth being here to give you the view right in the middle of it. right between german police and demonstrators. >> right. this is corroborating what you are say pg. there are are protesters around you. different protesters you were with and who we saw earlier on tv, dressed in black. some with masks and bandanas and their distinction. >> right. >> yeah, let me just show you
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this, by the way. there are fairly dangerous bits of stuff being thrown around. there is a distinction. we can still see some guys, wearing black, who are covering their faces with face masks. this is a different atmosphere to the atmosphere we saw some hours ago prior to those clashes with police. where in those clashes were perceived as wearing black face covered demonstrators and are here to try to have a confrontation with the police. police moved firing that tear gas to disperse that group. here we are again with a slightly more relaxed stand-off between protesters and the police. and what we have been seeing is we've been seeing organizers of this march hold the protesters back while these germ on police move back and then allowing the march to move along. there is clearly now communication between the group
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that are here to demonstrate against the g20 and they are are shouting anti-capitalist. that tells you something about their message. there is communication between that group and the german police that you see behind you. >> let me just ask you this, keir. there is distinction. there are certain specific issues with leaders who are there and some show up in every g20 and protest the concept of the g20 of leaders of developed nations and capitalism. >> that's right. i have seen people wearing sayings against president trump on their shirts. but many people with slogans we have seen outside the summits over many years. so yeah, this is, if you like, a tried and tested demonstration by people who are very much
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opposed to leaders in the world and carving up the future of the world. that said, clearly, these kinds of scenes and context of the g20 that is so tense with these crucial meetings between president trump and president putin between president trump and president xi of china, what we know about the difficulties of the relationship and even between president trump and german chancellor merkel, who these riot police work for, all of that makes this, i guess, slightly more poignant as a setting for this particular g20 summit. >> keir, i want to ask you something. i saw you interviewing people who said they were here for a peaceful protest. they said the police started it. you said a demonstration looks different depending on where you are. what do we know, if anything?
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where did this start? >> right. well, i can only tell what you i saw. what i saw was a line of riot police close off the streets. there was a large demonstration in the square. then a group of protesters wearing black and wearing masks, moved to confront police. i don't know which side confronted each other first, if you like. there was a standoff for a period. then the police fired tear gas. we were right in the middle of it. the police fired water cannon and moved in and tried to disperse that particular group. clearly a hard core group, assumed by the way they were dress and their slogan of "welcome to hell" at the front of their march, clearly here for confrontation. you have to say, the police, german police said amongst the 100,000 protesters, they expected in this city, they
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recon bed 8 wi reckoned about 8,000 were here for a violent confrontation. as can you see, there can be moments where you look around and try and figure out what's going on. if looks, just over there miguel, looks as if there is just a -- just a -- an altercation in the crowd. as i guess moments of tension rise and fall. but again mostly right now this looks pretty peaceful for a demonstration like this. >> all right, keir. stay safe out there. you've had hairy moments the last couple of hours. we will stay on this with you. we will continue to monitor the situation in hamburg. when trump meets for putin tomorrow, just the tip of the iceberg, we need to pay attention to everything else on the iceberg much more closely. that's according to my next guest. hey, hey, hey! you're not taking those. whoa, whoa! you're not taking that. come with me.
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i bet you'd love to be in the room where it happened, tomorrow, president trump meets with vladimir putin. this is the picture now in hamburg. not exactly where the g20 is. the protests are in a different part of hamburg. keir simmons is there on the left of your screen -- well, both sides you can see the protests walking. german officials have said that the protest is over. what it seems to be is that the police are walking behind the protesters and that they are marching and we're not sure where this is going to end. but the sun has just officially
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set in hamburg so you can see it's dusk. the light is disappearing quickly. that's the story. tomorrow, the big meeting is going to take place. in that meeting, there will be six people in the room likely. president trump, president putin, rex tillerson will be there. russia's chief diplomat, sergey lavrov will be there and there will be two translators at a minimum. we think six people in the meeting. russia interfering in the 2016 election is a much bigger tale according to my next guest. he's the "wall street journal's" bureau and jerry, good to see you. thank you for being with us. you wrote a remarkable column about the fact that everything we are talking about, the potential collusion with the trump campaign, the russians hacking into the 2016 election, possibly stuff that isn't going to come up in the meeting because as of this morning
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donald trump hadn't fully embraced the russian mischief if you want to call it that. it's much more sophisticated than most people think. >> yeah, i think that's being lost in the hyper-partisan debate that's occurring here about what the russians did or didn't do, yes, no, they didn't in the 2016 campaign. sort of loses sights of the much broader context, as you say this is going on for years. much more in central and eastern europe. if you go back to 2009, eight years ago, a group of central and eastern european leaders wrote a letter to president obama in the white house and said that the russians are using political and economic pressure to try to dictate events in our region and that included media manipulation among other things. and this is going on for a while. there's even a name for it. the russians call it new generation warfare. it's designed to build influence and to disrupt the internal cohesion of the opponent.
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this is a broad strategy and what we're seeing as you suggest in whatever happened here in 2015 and 2016 is a tip of a much bigger iceberg. >> you know, donald trump again today, he likes taking swipes at either hillary clinton or barack obama. he again on the international stage said that barack obama knew about this, why didn't he do something about it, he choked. it's more than he knew about the hacking but that the intelligence community and the think tanks really have known about the depth of russian involvement in economic and civic affairs for years. >> yeah. you know, doing the column i looked back on a book -- a publication called a kremlin playbook put out by the strategic for international studies in october of 2016 which is to say before the election it was a result of a long year and a half study of what happened over the course of a decade in five central and east european countries and all these steps were laid out. they moved along two tracks.
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one was economic. you use russian investment and energy and use money influence on people who will push for pro russian strategies. then you use a political track to try to build influence and by the way disrupt the democratic processes in the countries to make the whole democratic idea a less attractive one. both to people in the west, but also to people in russia as well. >> the economic patronage is important. the idea that you develop financial and economic relationships with people. so that they become pro russian or at least nonanti-russian. >> that's one of the ideas. if you can't do that, you at least make the process messy enough in the west that it doesn't look messy elsewhere. >> thank you for being with us. "wall street journal's" washington bureau chief. a column you must read. you're looking at the protests in germany. we'll be back. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc.
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all right. protesters continue to march in the streets of hamburg, germany. almost 10:00 p.m. german time. nearly 8,000 protesters were participating. we have reporters there keeping an eye on this situation. and covering the g20 summit that is getting under way tonight, tomorrow and saturday. that closes out this very busy hour for me. "deadline: white house" with my friend nicolle wallace starts right now. >> hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in
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new york and 10:00 p.m. in hamburg, germany, where president donald trump arrived for the g20 summit. president trump and the other leaders assembled for the meeting were greeted by massive protests that turned violent as they often do at the gatherings. nbc's keir simmons was in the middle it and we'll get to him. for a time the protests overshadowed the other dramatic news. we saw two versions of donald trump today. in a scripted address in warsaw, he sought to talk about the commitment to nato partners and offered his toughest language to date about russia. >> to those who would criticize our tough stance, i would point out that the united states has demonstrated not merely with words, but with its actions that we stand firmly behind article 5, the mutual defense commitment. we urge russia to cease its destabilizing


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