tv MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle MSNBC July 10, 2017 8:00am-9:01am PDT
a russian who claimed to have dirt on hillary clinton. >> on saturday told donald trump jr. we primarily discussed the adoption of russian children. >> 24 hours later this latest claim he had been prompted dirt on hillary clinton. >> i don't know much about it. it was a nothing meeting. >> no information was received that was meaningful or helpful and no action taken. >> certainly shows a willingness to collude. >> here we're talking about a foreign adversary government working with a presidential campaign. >> unacceptable. this borders on treason, if not self treason. >> we discussed impenetrable cyber security so election hacking and many other things will be guarded. >> having capabilities to make sure we both fight cyber together, which i think is a very significant accomplishment. >> it's not the dumbest idea i've ever heard but it's close. >> that might be putin making vicious fun for him knowing he'd fall for it. >> i'm sure vladimir putin could be of enormous assistance in that effort since he's doing the
hacking. >> the meeting with putin was a big disappointment. that meeting with putin was a problem. donald trump has pressed fast forward on the decline of the ups as a global leader. he has no desire and no capacity to lead the world. >> that last voice, a true mic drop. australian reporter chris joining us live on velshi and ruhle. >> let's begin with the bombshell revelation the trump campaign was willing to accept help from russia. >> donald trump jr. himself, now 24 hours later changing his story admitting he met with a russian who claimed to have damaging information on hillary clinton during the campaign. the meeting taking place at trump tower on june 9th, 2016 just after trump clinched the republican nomination. as first reported by "new york times," also at the meeting the president's campaign manager at
the time paul manafort and the president's son-in-law jared kushner. for kushner that now makes not one, not two, but three previously undisclosed meetings with russians. >> previously undisclosed is the important part here. donald trump jr.'s story about the meeting, as stephanie said, has changed dramatically over the weekend. we heard from him again a couple of hours ago in a tweet. obviously i'm the first person on a campaign who ever took a meeting to hear info about an opponent. went nowhere but had to listen. >> except, of course, donald trump jr. saying i'm in the the first person to take a meeting about an opponent. yet 24 hours ago he said he was meeting to talk about russian orphans, adoptions. meanwhile also on twitter today president trump is accusing fired fbi director james comey of leaking classified info to the media. before he posted that, the president retweeted a segment from fox news this morning that discussed a report in the hill
newspaper that more than half comey's memos detailing his conversations with the president had classified information. peter, this story has been changing through the course of the last few hours. our colleague brad jaffe summed it up in a tweet earlier. in march, never met with russians on campaign issues. saturday, it was about adoption. sunday, she said she had info about hillary clinton. she being the lawyer from the kremlin whom donald trump jr. and jared kushner and paul manafort met. >> actually, just information that would help with the campaign. it wasn't until today we learned damaging information about hillary clinton. this isn't just opposition research, this is meeting with a russian. >> let's break this down if we can quickly the changes in the last 24 hours. initially on saturday i received
a statement from donald trump jr. saying there was a meeting as you noted on russian adoptions. the statement then changed on sunday that we received from him talking more broadly about the fact he didn't know he was going to be meeting with but told this person would provide helpful information for the campaign. ultimately he said that information was vague, that he realized the intent, as he described it, was to talk about russian adoptions. the bottom line, we know from that meeting we're told he would view damaging information about hillary clinton. he's pushing back. one of his tweets, on twitter saying no inconsistency between his statements. again, he insists all he did was provide important details about that meeting when he released that new information on sunday. ultimately he says this was about russian adoptions. but be clear, what's important here is that this indicates for the first time real indications that at least some members of donald trump's campaign were willing to accept help from
individuals with ties to the kremlin. >> there is a difference here. donald trump jr. said earlier they thought they were meeting about russians, russians and adoptions and he didn't know what the meeting was about. they might not have known the dirt, information on hillary clinton they were getting but those are two very different things so say we didn't know what we were getting, talking about adoptions. in the middle of june, heat of campaign season, paul manafort and jared kushner have time to tag along with a meeting they know nothing about. does that make sense? >> when this happened, days after the president had locked up the nomination. he still have the long slog ahead of him. the fact jared kushner who did not initially reveal the meeting took place in his disclosures and paul manafort, the campaign chairman was in attendance is raising a lot of eyebrows as well. the initial reporting from the
"new york times" that came out over the course of the weekend, really on sunday, was attributed to three advisers to the white house. where this information is coming from is raising a lot of eyebrows as well as we've been reporting infighting in the white house. you know about all the factions that exist right now. it's not entirely clear who is looking out for who's best interest. it the family trying to do its best to defend themselves and they have the president as their enforcer. >> the president has been on a tweet storm about unrelated matters this morning. >> yeah. >> i just want to remind people about what donald trump said at a rally in iowa in january of 2016 months before this happened just to give context to what the president tends to think about damaging information about him. let's just play this. >> i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay, it's like incredible. >> there's a sense the white house is trying to put this off -- at least donald trump jr.
and donald trump the president are trying to put this off as nothing to see here. >> i mean, i think that's right. the bottom line donald trump jr. trying to say the heat of campaign season, if there's information coming in about an opponent, obviously i'm going to take that meeting. what's different here is these types of meetings might happen with republican party chair from a state that would know details about the democratic candidate hillary clinton. these do not traditionally come as meetings with an individual, a lawyer from another country, most notably russia, one of america's biggest adversaries here. this as we learn more about the individual appears to have ties to the kremlin, even though on this day a spokesperson for the kremlin says that's simply not true. >> to make the leap. we've heard richard painter in the last few days on tv say this could be treason. could it be treesinous when donald trump jr. is a private citizen. it's not like we're at war with
russia. >> let's stop right there. receipts talk about what happened, what was going on in that meeting, who was in it. on that meeting june 9th, 2016, you had donald trump jr., he's the one that's been talking now. paul manafort, long established ties to russia. we know this. he worked for russian-backed president of ukraine. jared kushner invited along with paul manafort. >> one more time, how many meetings has he not disclosed. >> the third. >> i'm not great at math but wow. >> the lawyer, all you have to do is a simple google. you can sort of say i don't know who it is, put the name in google. you want to take meetings, you google it. you know she's got remarkable ties to the kremlin. peter, false hoods about meeting russians. this is the thing everybody has to remember, vice president of the united states mike pence, mike flynn, jared kushner three times, donald trump jr. and carter page. these are people who have said they have not had certain
meetings and it's not been proven they had. guess what, they just remembered they had these meetings. three nondisclosures just talking about by jared kushner, one with ambassador sergey kislyak, one with ceo of a bank closely tied to vladimir putin and another one now with this russian lawyer that we're just talking about. so peter, with that context in min mind, this isn't a random meeting that happened to be about the adoption of russian or faps, they have a history of these meetings. >> donald jr. in 2008 saying at a real estate conference the vast number of russian investors they have. i think he cited their soho project and doing an interview with a golf reporter talking about saying we don't need u.s. banks, we've got the russians. how does all of that square off with the white house who has continued to say, nothing to see here? >> at the very least they are not doing themselves any favors right now. obviously this white house, these aides, these relatives at
a much earlier date could have been much more transparent about these meetings that wouldn't allow for what's become the huge cloud of smoke around this russia story and this white house. now it appears in the eyes of critics there may be some flames there as well. notably the president's son and the president's outside counsel are cutting themselves off saying the president did not know about this, was not in attendance. strikingly for his tweet storm today the one thing we have not heard president trump weigh in on is this meeting and his sons putting it together after being told about it. we will have a press briefing today we're told. it will also be off camera held by deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders. a lot of these questions will be posed to the white house, with the white house as has been the situation through much of this has been redirecting questions and trying to cut off from having to directly respond. >> at the meeting our own katy
tur that covered donald trump on the campaign that donald trump was in the building, not the meeting, at least for part of the day on june 9th. here is my takeaway, robert mueller and his team are canceling their summer vacation. >> they have a lot of work to do. president trump seems to be giving president putin some easy victories on several front. for one donald trump is tweeting he did not talk sanction wall street putin when they met at g-20. is he letting russia get away with election interference with no punishment? >> coming up, at this hour, we'll be speaking with chris ullman, his scathing review has gone viral around the world. >> the president of the united states has a particular skill set that he's identified an illness in western democracies but he has no cure for it and seems intent on exploiting it. here's to the safety first...
we are back. this is velshi and ruhle. we're talking whether the president discussed sanctions with russia in the high-profile meeting with vladimir putin. >> we heard they discussed russian interference in the election. remember that tepid statement from secretary of state tillerson. >> that was off camera. >> where he said he brought up the concern of the american people not the administration. president trump himself, however, tweeting sanctions were not discussed at my meeting with president putin, which did seem to contradict what secretary
tillerson said. he was one of only six people in the room. here is his voice. >> the president took note of action that is have been discussed by the congress. most recently additional sanctions that had been vote out of the senate to make it clear as to the seriousness of the issue. >> which was it? they talk about sanctions or didn't talk about sanctions? >> hijacking his own team, undercutting rex tillerson who joined the president three days ago. why do this to your top lieutenants. >> we don't know what it is. joining us in studio, director of global research eurasia group, advises political and geopolitical risk. they study this very carefully, particularly russia. it doesn't get weirder than this. >> okay. that's not true. >> everything gets weirder. >> we've seen weirder. >> how do you reconcile this. rex tillerson says out of the gate they talked about
sanctions. president trump says not only did we not talk about sanctions but we are getting together to talk about cyber security. >> there's two things here, one whether he went into the meeting prepared to raise the question of election meddling and raising sanctions. the other thing is the existing sanctions already in place on russia as a result of russia meddling in ukraine, which are sanctions that are the prerogative of the white house to lift if they want to. the problem for trump congress is about to pass a bell that would require congressional approval to lift those sanctions. >> the white house is working overtime to make sure the white house wants sanctions to get lifted. what kind of power does the white house have to get that done? >> i think it's very difficult. look, the gop accepted trump's excesses on a number of thing. russia looks like one thing they are not willing to go so far. you saw sanctions will pass 98-2 in the senate.
looks like it's headed for veto proof majority in the house which will tie trump's hands on concessions. the interesting thing is what that looks like from putin's perspective. he will see trump is too weak to coral his own party, gop, not a problem putin has at home. >> putin doesn't have a media party, he doesn't have a lawmaker's problem, he runs the show. >> interesting to see how it affects the dynamic between putin and trump, right? putin will see trump couldn't get his own party to give him room. this isn't about lifting sanctions but about giving trump room to do so if he wants at some point in the future. looks like congress is going to close off the possibility. >> we saw a comment from lindsey graham and john mccain saying they that the the meeting didn't go well, doesn't make sense, the discussions they had. you also saw pat toomey who really wants tax reform to go through and health care to go through, the senator from pennsylvania. there are more and more republican senators saying this is not a road, as you said, that
we're prepared to go down, lifting sanctions on russia. many of them want greater sanctions. >> that's right. as i said, it seems to be the one area on which the gop is not going to trade horses. this is a firm issue for them. the other interesting thing that happened, of course, are tweets about cyber security. i think there, you know, look, there's certainly a need for russia and the united states, the two greatest cyber powers on the planet to have some kind of rules of the road. we did it for conventional warfare a few years ago, conventional war gar. >> when you could count the weapons and knew where they came from. >> we definitely need rules of the road of some kind. the idea of forming a unit with russia it guard against election hacking, foxes and henhouses come to mind. >> even if the ultimate goal is for the two to create rules of the road, is it not premature to say let's move forward, create
rules of the road, when we have yet to get to the bottom of what actually happened. >> we. remember in trump's mind as he explains it, the issue is solved. didn't happen. right? so i think it's important to try to understand how the white house itself is looking at an issue. it's an issue they want to go away. one way to make it go away to say, okay, certain things happened, may have been a 400 pound guy, may have been other countries, russia, let's look ahead and move forward. >> is the reason the president doesn't want to go down this road, let's say there isn't collusion, is the reason he doesn't want to go down this road, it runs the risk it delegitimatizes him. >> if this was hacking -- >> he doesn't want to get personal italy attacked. i talked about this earlier. richard branson said the first time he met president trump he harped on the five people who didn't help him in business. he holds grudges against people. for president trump he takes this thing so darn personally. >> i think that's right. i think he doesn't want to delegitimatize his own election.
we'll see what comes out of the fbi investigation. that seems to be the most methodical and painstaking thing going on, politicized. >> they canceled their summer plans as you said. >> someone on twitter moments ago said, move on, lady, nobody cares about russia. well, sir, you're mistaken on that. >> great to see you as always. >> thank you for having me. >> iraq says it's taken mosul back from isis. how much does that matter to the terror group? we're going to speak with generally wesley clark. >> dozens of wildfires burning out west in california. thousands of people forced to evacuate because of two major outbreaks. one fire has burned 8,000 acres thus far. stay with us. we're going to get into it.
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hot spots and the end is near for isis. let's bring in retired four-star general and nato commander wesley clark now a senior fellow at ucla. general, good to see you. >> thank you. >> i'm always worried when anybody declares victory, liberty, success, or mission accomplished. >> what does that even mean? >> we know there's isis, they have done terrible thing welded people in homes with the iron gates. f we know they are trying to rescue people. battles still raging. what's your thought on this? >> my statement it was primarily for domestic news coverage in iraq, it is a big triumph for iraqi government to be able to hold consistency, a purpose. it's been a month, nine months, ten months effort doing after mosul here following six months of preparation. so they want to take domestic
red for this. of course, we know what happened with isis. basically they got their key leaders out of mosul a long time ago. they distributed isis cells elsewhere across north africa. libya alive with boca haram in nigeria. relationships with al shabaab, so forth, working in yemen. they are many different places. also forcing the end of the caliphate headquarters in raqqa. so they are doing to a different model of operation. it's a good thing we have mosul almost cleaned up but there are tremendous issues. reconstruction, the role of the militias, sectarian strive that is following this. what's the future role of the united states and iran who have sort of worked on the same side in this. so big issues to be resolved in mosul and we know it's not the end of isis. >> if it's not the end of isis,
what does it mean for mosul and iraq? we know they have an unsafe government. even if isis fires are out, could mosul be a vacuum for the next terror group? >> right. they have got to have the loyalty of tribes and the internal security to work against terrorists. that's a very, very tough proposition in any society because it only takes a very few people operating in secret cells to inflict a lot of damage. so this is a very high bar that the iraquis have to reach. don't forget in the meantime you've still got the kurds operating in syria, the kurds, groups of kurds pushing for independence. concerned about independence. this is one step of a 1,000 step journey to try to restore stability in a region. >> general, you brought up syria. let's go there for a second.
an announcement of a-fly zone. i'm just putting on the screen so they under the region that is cease-fire. the white house is complaining media is not giving this coverage. i don't know, my rough guess it's 5%, 4% of syria, an area not particularly prone to fire. >> a cease-fire agreed on by united states and russia, takeaway from the meeting. >> not the party's president. what is your view on this cease-fire. >> well, you know, i would welcome any cease-fire that had any strategic significance. it's not clear it does. if the united states and jordan are able to use this cease-fire for humanitarian purposes and groups in the region that protect the security of jordan, that's a good thing. my guess is, it was a cover -- sort of an insignificant event
tossed out by putin to give president trump something to take away from the summit but it also provides relief for the assad regime. my concern will be that the assad regime, of course, has a strategic purpose. they want control of all of syria. so they are coming back after this region at some point no matter what because it's not under control of the assad regime. so i'm sure jim mattis and our commanders in the region understand this. the question is does the white house understand it and what will be our response to this. russia has had -- they don't have our interest at heart, not even in syria. they want assad to stay. they want a long-term relationship with iran, and they want to be able to keep their presence in syria. what we want is stability in the region, deweaponization and a move to democracy.
we're opposed to russian interest and directives. they know it, do we? >> the takeaway vladimir putin wanted president trump if he thu him a bone to say he has a win and at the same time had relief for assad, that certainly sounds like a win for putin. >> it's the way it looks to me, because this is not so far from the area. we've got lots of u.s. firepower and protection for jordan. we're covering that border with jordan to protect our ally. so really they are not doing there anyway right now. >> that's right. that's exactly right. >> they will. they will. this is part of the larger plan. this is a plan to sort of desensitize the united states to what russia is really doing. i mean, the public, the american public. >> general, good to talk to you. you know a lot about these things. general wesley clark was a former nato commander. that brings up the point the
largest refugee camp for syrian refugees is that one, the zaatari camp on the jordan border with syria. a lot of other reasons for this. we've been covering this actually since it happened at the meeting and putting that map up on tv since friday to show people that's a teeny, weenie weenie part where not much fight is going on where apparently this great cease-fire is taking place. >> let's hope it's a sign of progress. we'll take a break. president trump makes a pitch for joint cyber security unit for russia. more on that an other times "triumph" suggested collaborations with russia. extraordinary. and very soon we'll speak with australian reporter chris uhlmann, took on president trump in a report that's gone viral around the world. >> it's the unscripted trump that's real. a man who barks out 140 characters, wastes his precious days as president at war with institutions like judiciary, independent government agencies and the free press. ♪
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this easy-to-understand guide will answer some of your questions and help you find the aarp medicare supplement plan that's right for you. (upbeat dance music) (bell ringing) welcome back. you are watching "velshi & ruhle." it's time to get you back to our big story. the meeting we learned about donald trump jr., the president's son and a russian lawyer last year. let's take a look back at all that went on in the heat of the presidential cam paper. let's take a time line. june 7th, nominees.
june 9th, donald trump jr., jared kushner and campaign chairman paul manafort meet with a russian lawyer. tweets about missing e-mails. july 18th, day one of the gop convention, the trump campaign changed the gop platform to ensure it depend call for giving weapons to ukraine to fight against russia. on july 21st, gop convention concludes with president trump giving his speech accepting the republican nomination. on july 27th, wikileaks releases stolen e-mails from the democratic national committee. july 25th, democratic convention begins. july 27th, trump asks russia in public, quote, if you're listening, i hope you're able to fin the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. august 4th, obama cia director john brennan confront his russian counterpart about russia's speaker feerns.
october 4th, wikileaks says they will publish the 2016 missing campaign e-mails. october 7th, homeland security and the director of national intelligence say russia is interfering in the 2016 election. october 7th, wikileaks begins releasing clinton campaign chair john podesta's e-mails. on halloween, october 31st, trump says, this wick is like a treasure trove. november 4th, trump says, "boy, i love reading those wikileaks." wow. >> wow. >> when you put it all together like that, certainly starts looking like something, stephanie. joining us jane harmon director and president of the woodrow wilson center, former nine-term member of congress. good to see you again. thank you for being with us. this business of undisclosed meetings. jared kushner now on his third meeting. the number of people associated with donald trump who took meetings that were previously
undisclosed. you've been involved in foreign affairs you're entire career. what is one supposed to make of all this. >> well, what's one supposed to make of that time line you just read. my answer to that is a time line is not an indictment but it's a good thing we have a special counsel looking at all this. i'm going to wait to conclude what it means until i hear from bob mueller. but on this point, if you're a candidate for office, and i certainly was many times, donald trump was not, but he was the presumptive nominee, as you just said, you have to be careful. he had some sophisticated people in his campaign by this time. paul manafort is one of those people. if people came to me and they wanted to share some negative information about my opponent, i wouldn't necessarily turn it down, but certainly no one close to a foreign government ever did that. that i think would have raised red flags for me but i certainly
would have checked out who the source was and then been very careful about who met with that source. also looking back on the thing if i were involved in the meeting fully disclosed, if you have to, to get a clearance o if you're making a statement under oath what occurred. >> i want to talk a bit about this idea president trump floated out there yesterday, the united states coordinating in a cyber security joint effort with russia. he put out this tweet yesterday morning. putin and i discussed forming an impenetrable cyber security unit so that election hacking and many other negative things will be guarded. >> you saw marco rubio's response to that, right? >> yes. >> tweeted out, partnering with putin on cyber security unit is akidnap to partnering on assad on a chemical weapons unit. >> i saw that. >> lindsey graham said it's not the dumbest idea i've ever heard but close to it. >> president trump said, no, not something i'm going to do.
>> yes. i think he's moving away from it because there is total condemnation of the idea. here was the better idea, at least i think it is. hindsight is always better. why didn't he propose that to europe? why didn't he come to the g-20 with the idea he is president working with other presidents would collaborate on a fact-finding mission or policy mission to prevent hacking by russia and to europe and european elections. we think it's still doing on in germany. it definitely happened in france. it is a slam-dunk it happened in the united states in 2016. that idea would have gone a long way to keeping his allies close and overcoming obviously the discord because we are fulg out of the paris climate agreement, and he has different views on trade. i think that would have gotten endorsement from most people in
congress. >> there wasn't complete and total condemnation about this idea. we saw some of the president's closest advisers, h.r. mcmaster, steve mnuchin on tv yesterday touting coordination like this on cyber security partnership is great progress. what does it do to their credibility that we've seen a complete about face and attack on this idea from senior members of the gop? >> well, i think i'll leave it with trump is backing away. so i think the conversation by them endorsing this idea probably is now on hold. but i think had it been focused on, and i'm not sure it was focused on by them as a preliminary to the putin conversation, i think a lot of people would have said timing is terrible. maybe in some future universe when things are different with russia might be different. talking to putin was a good idea. don't let me walk away from that. putin victories like this i
think was not a smart idea. >> to your point walking back, president trump then tweeted after he tweeted the first one, the fact that president putin and i discussed cyber security unit doesn't mean i think it can happen, it can't. a cease-fire can and did. we were talking to general wesley clark about this. the cease-fire, a bit of a misrepresentation. we can put that map up to show our viewers. a tiny cease-fire, something that amounts to 3 or 4% of land in syria around which there isn't a great deal of fighting to start w there are bombings going on across syria, all sorts of things happening. they have got this cease-fire and donald trump gets to walk out and brag he got a cease-fire. either a bit of a misrepresentation i would say. >> it's a bit of an overstatement is how i would put it. any effort to bring some peace to that tragic situation is a good thing. by the way, there's not enough coverage of the fact with the iraquis in the league there's pn a victory at least in the war on
mosul by isis, a victory over isis. that's just the clear part. now they have to hold and rebuild mosul, which some estimate will cost a billion dollars just to get electricity in there. it's a huge problem. all i'm saying is these things do add up and it is a good thing. what the solution to syria is is going to take a lot of work. it certainly isn't lining up with assad, russia, and iran. >> can you give usa quick history lesson as it relates to president trump meeting with vladimir putin. you said it's a positive they met. let's talk about the fallout. rex tillerson's recollection of the meeting did not square off with what sergey lavrov went over in the meeting. to make matters worse, president trump said what went on in the meeting was quite different. how common is that that the takeaway read out to be so different. >> three out of six people in the meeting are different. >> first of all, it was a closed meeting. this really does seem like it was a closed meeting.
there weren't mysterious people with cameras and other readouts that we didn't anticipate, like the meeting in the white house with lavrov. so you know, it's going to be a he said, he said moment no matter what. putin -- >> is that normally the case? >> putin has an election next year, which he's predicted to win but this playing well in russia for him. trump had to know that. i think with trump's base this meeting is playing pretty well. i think some of the messages delivered in poland are playing pretty well. depends which audience you're talking about. >> thanks very much. jane harman nine-term congressman and director of woodrow wilson center. up neck, speaking to australian reporter chris uhlmann about his scathing review of president trump at the g-20. >> we learned donald trump has pressed fast forward on the decline of the united states as a global leader.
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commentary on president trump's g-20 trip has certainly gone viral taking the political world by storm for his takedown of america's president. >> we've also learned he has no desire and no capacity to lead the world. the g-20 became the g-19g-20 be the u.s. was left friendless. a deft president could find an issue around which he could rally most of the leaders and he found one, north korea's nuclear program. confuse the speeches written for trump with the thoughts from the man himself. he did make some descriptive
statements. but it's the unscripted trump that's real, a man who -- at war with the west's institutions, like the judiciary, the government and the free press. he was the awkward loan leader. we did find that donald trump has pressed fast forward on the decline of the united states as a global leader. he sought to isolate his country. i think we'll miss it when it's gone. and that's the biggest threat to the values of the west, which he claims to hold so dear. >> joining us now is that analyst, he's the political editor for australian network abc.
stephan stephanie's been hankering to ask you this question all morning. >> you have to start with this, america no longer a leader, an extraordinary commentary, clearly one that was heard around the world. and you were there, was that clearly the take away at the g-20. >> it was certainly the way that i saw it and other delegations saw it as we saw what was going on around the g-20. in the leadup, we all knew that america's position on global warming was going to be different from the rest of the world, and angela merkel wasn't going to accept that. and we knew there would be division, i guess what we were looking for was where this president would decide to lead, and the issue that he had which was ready made on the way in was the issue on north korea. the australian delegation said that there was going to be a strong statement on north korea. he would have gotten 18 nations on his side and he would have isolated russia and china in the
way that the united states has been isolated and then he would have had something to walk away with, and he essentially walked away from nothing. >> the degree to which we need to talk about donald trump's tweets, the unvarnished donald trump that you talk about. the reality is as you know, they hold fewer press conferences than they used to and they don't take questions as regularly as they used to, so that's what we're dependent on. >> a window into his soul, isn't this the unvarnished trump, what the president really cares about. we see in australia, when the president spends any time at all taking issue with a couple of reporterings in the united states, you wonder about what his priorities are. that is a reasonable thing for someone to make a judgment on. we're all making judgments based
on his actions, the judgments we can make based on the actions that we have seen is that he's spending too much of his precious time as president, four years is not a long time in a person's life. four years is not that much time to take achievements, he should be doing thing that would be of value to the united states and to the world. >> do you believe that's going to affect policy decisions made by other world leaders? >> it's clearly already impacting decisions made by other world leaders. we're seeing that now europe has decided it has to go its own way particularly when it comes to climate change and issues on a free press. again, it is not unusual for there to be disagreements, particularly on big things that affect economies, australia has a highly intense economy, that's just the nature of the way that our energy system has been built. that's a painful transition. we have been seen at times to be dragging on this particular
issue, that doesn't mean that we can't be part of the global discussion. >> that's an interesting point that you make, there are lots of people that for various reasons don't subscribe to american leadership or american policies from the leadership. but other countries have acknowledged the leadership that america plays in the free world. your thesis, your essay, your report, in essence that is becoming undone. at the g-20, i had someone say to me g-20 is becoming g-0. because the leadership is going away and no one's there to fill in. >> if you don't lead, then who will? because somebody will lead, and what you're doing is seeding power to someone else. there's not really any confluence of any real ideas or
even your economies are are vastly separated. the one that's going to matter to you in the long run, is china. you step out of the picture, china will step into it. xi jinping's country is becoming ever more authoritarian. the thing we worry about in australia is that the trade routes through with 70% or so of our trade and in fact the vast amount of the world trade comes through the south china sea are being corralled by china. the united states is the only power on earth which can challenge that and keep those sea lanes open. you should be doing this, you should be leading the world because it's in your interests to lead the world, as well as having benefits for other countries. >> really, really good point. >> chris, good to talk to you. the australian network's political editor, the political broadcasting network in australia. >> we should point out, it's their national network, more
like their pbs. >> or a cbc. >> we'll be right back. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing? purchase. let's do this. got it. book the flights! hai! si! si! ya! ya! ya! what does that mean for us? we can get stuff. what's it mean for shipping? ship the goods. you're a go! you got the green light. that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open.
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