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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 11, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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person that i deal with does. >> after months of denials and admission tonight. >> don jr very clearly said that he was told there would be some kind of information helpful to the campaign. >> trump campaign did meet with russian dose get dirt on hillary clinton. >> can you imagine what they're hacking? >> former clinton campaign manager john podesta joins me tonight. new questions of possible collusion. >> why aren't more of these people coming clean? >> as undisclosed russian meetings with the trump campaign pile up. >> i can't think of bigger lies. >> then the senate returns and so do the protesters. as republicans hatch another plan to ram through a health care bill. and what miss universe and a billionaire wannabe pop star have to do with possible collusion? >> i'm really tired of you. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york.
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i'm chris hayes. we now know that despite countless assurances to the contrary some of the most senior members of the trump campaign did meet with the russian national before the 2016 election. since the possibility was first raised of potential coordination between the trump campaign and russian efforts to interfere in the election, the president and his team denied having any contact with russian individuals. >> are there any ties between mr. trump, you, your campaign and the putin regime? >> no, there are not. it is absurd and in basis for it. >> did anyone involved in the trump campaign have any contact with the russians trying to meddle with the election? >> absolutely not. and i discussed that with the president-elect just last night. those conversations never happened. >> was there any contact in way between trump or his associates and the kremlin or cutouts they had? >> i joined this campaign in the summer and can i tell you that all of the contact by the trump
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campaign and associates was with the american people. >> none of that was true. because last summer, not long after donald trump clenched the republican nomination, his eldest son and campaign adviser donald trump jr add meeting at trump tower in new york on a day that donald trump was there. with a russian lawyer connected to the kremlin. also in that same meeting which was first reported by the "new york times" were the president's son-in-law, jared kushner, now white house adviser, and paul manafort. then the campaign chairman. that meeting arranged for june 9, 2016 directly contradicts what trump jr told the times in march. did i meet with people that are russian? i'm sure i did. but none of that were set up. none that i can think of at the moment and certainly none that i was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form. after the "new york times" confronted trump jr about the meeting he then explained its purpose was benign. that they were merely discussing
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a program for american families to adopt russian children, which was suspended a few years prior. within hours that explanation was revealed to be at absolute very least woefully incomplete. trump jr's real reason for meeting with the lawyer according to five different advisers to the white house who spoke with the times was to collect dirt on his father's general election owe poen shl, hillary clinton. that prompted trump jr to issue yet another statement. i was asked to have a meeting from an acquaintance i knew from the 2013 miss universe pageant. i was not told her name prior to the meeting. i asked jared and paul to attend but told them nothing of the
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substance. after please an tries were exchanged, she said -- it quickly became clear she nod meaningful information. she changed subjects and began discussing the subject of adopting russian children and the magnitsky act. that act opposes sanctions on russian officials and infuriated vladimir putin so he froze adoption of russian children. obviously i'm the first person on the campaign to ever take a meeting to hear info about an opponent. went nowhere but had to listen. white house like wise insisted nothing inappropriate took place. >> i've been on several campaigns and people call offering information. as i know many of you receive similar calls of people offering information. don jr took a very short meeting from which there was absolutely no follow-up. the only thing i see inappropriate about the meeting is the people that leaked the information on the meeting after it was voluntarily disclosed. >> senate intelligence committee is already interested in
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speaking with donald trump jr about the meeting. he hired a new lawyer who is formally represented the mafia. i asked john podesta for his reaction. >> it is drip, drip, drip. we keep learning more information. the story keeps changing. now it is clear that they had a specific meeting to gather dirt on hillary with a russian lawyer, with close ties to the kremlin. and you know, the story again, keeps changing. we never knew about that meeting that mr. kushner attended earlier. donald trump jr said that he was -- specifically went to the meeting with the hopes of the soliciting negative information about hillary. it is starting to smell more and more like collusion to, i think, the public. but most importantly we need to great facts straight on this. >> one of the defenses today has been, hey, look. someone comes to you, they say you have damaging information about your opponent. you go, you hear them out. what do you think of that?
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>> well i think when it is -- when it is a foreign national person who, when the meetings been set up, by the son of donald trump's partner in the miss universe conference in moscow, someone who's known to be very close to vladimir putin, and when a foreign national is coming in with that kind of information, you have to ask your lawyers, and i think one of the things they would say to you, is that you cannot receive something of value from a foreign national. so i think you have been -- you know, if we had asked that question we would have been waved off it and i wonder why donald trump jr thought it was perfectly okay to go ahead and take this meeting with someone who's been operating on behalf
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of russian interests, a lir in this country, under those circumstances. seemed inappropriate. and i think the house and senate intelligence committees will want to get to the bottom of it. >> you just mention what your protocol is if you offer something similar. you ask the lawyers, did you meet -- just for i guess comparison's sake, part of what is strange is to figure out what's normal, what's not normal. did you have meetings with foreign nationals or lawyers representing, you know, foreign entities to discuss the campaign. >> not about trump. it is a cottage industry for foreign representatives in the country to try to figure out what's happening, what's the likely result. >> sure. >> so that they can report back to their foreign offices overseas. and we never met with the russians. i didn't. jake sullivan, our senior policy adviser, laura rosen burger with the foreign campaign never met
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with the russians. we met with others. but those were what's going on in the campaign. what are you predicting. how is it going kind of meetings we weren't getting information from them about donald trump. we didn't ask for it and i don't think it would be okay to receive it. . >> you're obviously the center of all this. you are the person in some ways the victim of the most egregious , with private correspondences and personal correspondences. what do you think happened to you? >> i think what happened to me is straight forward. russian forces got into my account. gave them to julian assange at
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wikileaks who tried to maximize damage to our campaign by 30 minutes following release of the access hollywood tape. began releasing them everyday for approximately 30 days of the campaign. so i think they, as the 17 u.s. intelligence agencies ended up putting out a statement, and concluded, they tried to do what they could to interfere with the u.s. election in order to help donald trump get elected president of the united states. and the reason they did that is because donald trump as we saw over the weekend at hamburg, seems to have a special rapport with vladimir putin and adopted russian foreign policy breaking rank with bipartisan foreign policy with the united states for the last years. >> you said something about the
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timing of the access hollywood tapes. also the same day the u.s. government released its first official finding that the russians had indeed penetrated your e-mail. you don't think that's coincidence? you think there is some direction about what would be politically most sell yent? >> look, i think that you know, if, i would say two things. one, if wikileaks was just interested in getting the informs out, they probably wouldn't print friday night to do it but it it in the wake of the access hollywood tape release. and secondly, if they cared about transparency they would have put them all out at once. instead they dribbled them out over the course of the last 30 days of the campaign or to keep the topic of e-mails. there wasn't anything particularly sexy in my e-mails,
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by by the way. but to keep the topic of e-mails alive. that's why it is critical that intelligence committee investigations go on and that robert mueller is friday to do a full and thorough investigation of what happened, why it happened, were there contacts? and i think that most importantly, why do they keep not telling the truth about it? that may be the ultimate vulnerability. which is they can't seem to get a straight story out. >> right. all right, john podesta, thanks for joining me. >> okay, thanks, chris. >> joined by former assistant water gate investigator. nick, let me start with you as former water gate investigator. hearing this information and particularly hearing the information in the context of them donald jr not telling the truth, what are your investigative impulses and instincts?
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what would you want to know? >> i would go absolutely crazy here. i want to know everything. it's not just in the context of his lies and his changes his stories but in the context of everything else that's happening. look what happened to paul manafort three weeks prior to that meeting was appointed the chairman of donald trump's campaign. >> which was itself a somewhat surprising move at the time. >> look who brought him to the dance. roger stone. >> right. >> this is the same roger stone who a couple months later admitted that prior to that time he was having conversationes with both ends of the group hacking mr. podesta's e-mail. >> individual named gucifer who many believe -- >> a russian. >> right, russian intelligence. >> and julian assange. he was able to predict when things would happen here. we have a real web of collusion that has to be followed up. e-mailes have to be subpoenaed. people have to look at computers.
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you have to look at ip addresses. determine where things went. when they went. when they came in. there is going to be a very boring investigation but you need lots and lots of documents. >> so here is what i -- you and i have talked for a while and you had a -- you had a specific experience working with russian counter intelligence and trying to suss out someone trying to recute you and you yourself was a double agent. it just seems unlikely to you, from what you know about how russian intelligence operated, to lay your cards on the table and say, hey, let's work together. what is the new information we are getting doing to the belief of yours? >> we look at peter smith, when you look at nick just mentioned, gucifer, and now with don junior, sophisticated human, using dangle. with peter smith, russians dangled out hope of 33,000 missing e-mail possess. with don junior, dangling out
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possibly information on hillary clinton. and now when do you that chris, what you are attempting to do, gaining intelligence from human sources but also the target aeng recruiting of individuals with the eventual goal of directing them. >> this is a clear attempt by the russians to essentially try and recute u.s. persons. perhaps collusion is down the road. it seems very clearly that they were trying to gain access with the attempt and this is why there woman sat down with donald jr and at the end of the day had nothing to offer in terms of hillary. it was a clear card move there with a dangle meant to get a meeting. >> are you confident -- we have three stories, i didn't meet with anyone, we met and talked about adoption.
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i went into it thinking i could get some dirt on hillary clinton. there is possibly illegal there, it is illegal to accept anything, not just money. do we know the whole story about what happened with that meeting? >> absolutely not. not even close. have you three liars involved in this thing. three people who don't even know the truth. jared kushner who remarkably had amnesia when it came out time to fill out his form -- >> under penalty of perm ji. omitted key meetings with russia. >> right. we won't get the truth from these three people. i can guarantee that. what we need is good old-fashioned gum shoe investigation. going after e-mails and computers and trying to put this together. >> to your point, this is
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important, just for context, you mentioned peter smith, a wealthy republican trump-backing financer guy who raised money for republicans who had sort of started his own operation to try to require what he thought were hillary clinton's deleted 33,000 e-mails. interesting note. first tweet that donald trump sends about that, this is a tweet, where are your 33,000 e-mails you delighted? that's june 9. this is the same 33,000 e-mails he looks into the camera and tells him to hack. perhaps with the russians had those e-mails. >> i think that's absolutely right. clearly, look, human intelligence at its core is manipulation, chris. i think what you are seeing is how the russians frankly manipulated donald trump. this idea that putin would call trump directly and say do you want us to help you throw the election in your favor? that didn't happen. cutouts to communicate indirectly with trump. i think you are seeing the actual apparatus used to do
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that. at the end date of, what i'm concerned about here, nick mentioned security forms. what i'm concerned with lying an covering this up is indication of someone recruited by russians and attempting to cover their tracks. that's a clear indicate eer. when you lie about those. even if it is not a crime to meet with these people. when you cover it up, that is a serious indicator you are attempting to hide a relationship. >> famous phrase in water gate, when did the president know and when did he know it. nixon read into the whole thing as revealed on the tapes. the president's lawyer, one of them said, the president doesn't know with this meeting. do you find it credible? >> not even close. first of all, they had lunch together that day. paul manafort and -- >> yes. in trump tower all day. >> his son, campaign manager and son-in-law all go to meeting.
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>> and no one talks about it? they don't know what's going on. the same thing that jeff sessions did. jeff, i don't recall, sessions. over 21 times. did you go to lunch with godzilla that day? i don't remember. did you go to the park? >> i don't know. >> thank you boning. >> thank you, chris. >> coming up, how donald trump jr ended up with a meeting with russian lawyer with kremlin connections and how it is connected it this music video. that strange deal after this break. these days families want to be connected 24/7.
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that's why at comcast we're continuing to make our services more reliable than ever. like technology that can update itself. an advanced fiber-network infrustructure. new, more reliable equipment for your home. and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever. one that keeps you connected to what matters most. during an appearance on hugh hewitt's radio show two years ago donald trump bragged about the great contacts he made when when he held miss universe pageant in moscow in 2013. >> i really loved my weekend in moscow. but i was with the top level people, both old oligarchs and
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generals and top of the government people. i can't go further than but i will tell that you i met the top people. >> a pop singer in russia, and in 2013 he add music video with miss universe contentants and cameo of the future president. >> evan, let's get with it. you're just another pretty face. i'm really tired of you. you're fired. >> he said he and the trump family stayed close. he said he spoke to donald trump on numerous occasions. now that he ran and is elected he doesn't forget his friends. also saying he exchanged messages with donald jr around the time inauguration. donald trump senior cared enough to record a video for emmon's p 35th birthday. >> emmon, i can't believe you're turning 35. but you're a winner, a champ, you're great at real estate and boy can you entertain. >> this is john jr with a kremlin lawyer who promised damaging information over hillary clinton.
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that is former british tabloid journalist rob goldstone who worked on the miss universe pageant. he said he set the meeting up at the request of who? putin agovernment has awarded aross's company numerous contracts and buildings. putin personally awarded him the honor, russian federation 2013 and as my next guest reported for the post aras served as liaison between trump and putin and involved in a planned meeting between those two men in ms. could you one day before the miss universe pageant. putin personally awarded him the
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honor, russian federation 2013 and as my next guest reported for the post aras served as liaison between trump and putin and involved in a planned meeting between those two men in ms. could you one day before the miss universe pageant. ultimately telling the post putin cancelled at last time but sent a decorative lacquered box. a traditional russian gift. and a warm note. it is a somewhat complicated story here. you have the father and son who are both close to putin and have a relationship with trump. there is one degree of separation there. >> true. you have the meeting set up by the agent for emmon. the russian would-be pop star. his agent called donald trump jr who he knows through past negotiations regarding the miss universe pageant and asks for a meeting at trump tower and he gets it. >> and this meeting, this is
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what the lawyer who has was sort of the kind of kremlin's point person on this piece of legislation. back when the u.s. was going to pass it p. is that correct? >> yes. natalia vessel was a lir if russia representing, worked in lawsuits for individuals who are challenging the magnitsky act or charged in violating rules and charged with money-laundering. in the course of doing that she became a fairly well known figure advocating for basically the repeal of the magnitsky act saying it was doing harm it russia and it was established under false retenses, false claims. >> what's important to me is strikes me here is two things that sort of come together in this meeting, right? we add lot of reporting about possible connections between the trump family and trump connections in russia and what russia wanted, right? here those two things seem to have been put together. connections were operationalized
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in favor after woman with a clear policy agenda that is connected to putin's policy which is getting rid of the magnitsky act. >> this does seem to have been her priority in court and arguments she presented from washington. she attended a house foreign relations committee hearing just four days after that meeting in trump tower. in which u.s. and russia relations were discussed and sanction possess. that evening there was a showing after film that criticized william brouder who is the financer, active in russia, who helped argue and make the case for the magnitsky act honoring the company hired no russia p who died in prison under mysterious circumstances. >> so as a person who knows don jr, he also represents rob goldstone who represents emmon
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the pop star also real estate heir. so that is something they have there. do we know from him if he told don jr the nature of the meeting? it seems o strange, hey, will you take a meeting with a person whose name i won't give you? bring media to the campaign and sat down with her. >> as you and the guests have described this evening there are changing stories about the nature of this meeting. including statements from rob goldstone. he told rosalyn as he was boarding a cruiseship that he was setting up papers to do a prohibition on russian children that he implited and in response to the magnitsky act because he did not care for those sanctions and wanted to create a sort of political op skigs to those sanctions.
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so rob first told us that's what it is about. today he sent an e-mail to the washington post and other news organizations explaining that in fact his initial appeal was made on behalf of emmon and the appeal was to donald trump jr and the appeal was related to offering information, negative information, about hillary clinton and democratic donors. >> we should note that both these stories, the goldstone story and trump jr story both evolve in the same way. both had their stories straight with each other. this is an adoption meeting then move to the story they have now. >> an evolving story.
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>> thank you for your time tonight. filling separate offices in the hauflt campaign. what hups are planning to pass and when they are landing to vote, that's ahead. don't kill me!
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don't kill me! kill the mail! >> kill the bill! or lose your job! >> senate is back to work today.
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welcomed by a fresh round of protests against the republican health care bill there in capitol hill. he is not yart majority leader mitch mcconnell failed to rush through the bill before leaving for the fourth of july recess. we went back to the drawing board and decided to do it all over beginning. write up a bill, drop it on the public and aim for a vote. still haven't seen the will. we will bring you the latest right after this bill. . it delivers a whole mouth clean with a less intense taste. so it has the bad breath germ-killing power of this... [rock music] with the lighter feel... of this. [classical music] for a whole mouth clean with a less intense taste... ahhh. try listerine® zero alcohol™. also try listerine® pocketpaks for fresh breath on the go.
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senate can see a revised health care bill as early as thursday. "politico" reporting that there could be a vote by the end of next week. if that process sounds extremely rushed and very familiar, there's a reason. mitch mcconnell tried the same thing last month. they now that senate is back from recess, majority leader armed at it again. except tore senator mark lee with much more limited. it is unlikely to appeal to senators collins of maine. herl of mf. portman of ohio. and moran of connecticut. all all expressing concerns.herl portman of ohio. and moran of connecticut. all all expressing concerns.eher portman of ohio. and moran of connecticut. all all expressing concerns.lher portman of ohio. and moran of connecticut. all all expressing concerns.lher
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the bill needs at least 50 of 52 to pass. with pence as tie breaker. he is doing his part to get the call to the floor, going to rush limbaugh today to rally the base. >> i have one message for your tens of thousands of viewers around america, this is the moment, now is time. if you are one of those wanting obamacare to be repealed and replaced, we are are days or just maybe looks way as historical objective. >> covering health care battles all the way back to the clinton campaign, the clinton presidency. my understanding is this attempt to attach to something pb i lou to sell plans that don't qualify now as a way of getting conservatives. >> well this has been really the effort all along, conservatives both in the house and senate don't like the insurance regulations and in the affordable care act. their big problem is they can't get at most of them because of
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the budget process they are using. they went through the house to get possible waivers. this is what ted cruz is trying to do to allow states to get out of insurance regulations. it is not at all clear this would make it through the parliamentary process. but now we are waiting to hear what congressional budget office said about it. they might not be able to score it. apparently they don't know how long it'll take. senate has about three weeks before they are supposed to go out on august recess. it could get retight. >> we are back to the same process, right? keep in secret, don't know what it is. get a score back then pacically try to vote before anyone can digest the score, right? i think the score comes out on friday or something and let's vote on wednesday. he still has, he can evenly
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afford to lose two votes. what is your read of that group of senators who aren't in the sort of cruise lee group but first like this, what can be down bring them on board? >> apparently they are sort of becoming more firm about this. they are having trouble with cuts and redoing of medicaid program. that's one of the things that's critically important to the conservatives. so if he doesn't anything that's going to get those moderates back on by the medicaid cuts he could lose con sefb tifs even if they do get the amendment. remember not only does it have to pass the senate with 50 votes but presumably the house has to pass the same bill. they don't want to go to conference that could take months. >> what about the deadline here? a moving target to me. this idea of introducing and hammer it through.
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that doesn't work. largely because of constituent pressure. the bill is building at 14%, somewhere around there. going to try it again. what happens if you hit the recess? >> if you hit august recess? nothing good. going back to opposite 2009 when the democrats went home. we had all those very disrupting town hall meetings that i think we were there. i think the democrats got hammered and the same thing would happen and this time republicans. this is a bad case scenario. going home for august recess without a bill would be much, much worse. >> quickly, donald trump said today they should get rid of recess and stick around washington.
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i can't imagine them leaving washington without a fully new health bill. ready to go. >> one time in my 30 years they violated the august very says was when they were trying to dot clinton health care plan in 19 the 4. that doesn't go so well. they stuck around for a bit. >> accidental meetings between russia and trump world, record of under oath. putin, trump and the cyber. >> there are barricades. . thing 1 tonight, the president has habit of sawing the limb off the tree after his
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thing 1 tonight, the president has habit of sawing the limb off the tree after his surrogates have clamored out on to it to defend him. remember what happened after comey was fired? that message as pushed. president trump fired the fbi
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director based on the advice of the attorney general. >> in giving the recommendations, the president made a decision to accept their conclusions and remove director comey. >> he took the recommendation of rod rosen steen -- >> and yikly afterward the president made the decision to let comey go. >> see it was all about the recommendations until it wasn't two days later. >> he made a recommendation but beside recommendation, i was going to do it. i said to myself, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. >> this is become a kind of pattern. i think of it as ritual humiliation the president put his sur surrogates too. it happened again and again. when can you guess how it story ended for mnuchin? that in 60 second.
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early sunday morning president trump declared on twitter, putin and i discussed forming an impen trabl cybersecurity unit. to prevent hacking and many other things be regarded. after receiving widespread condemnation, including from republicans -- >> it's not the dumbest idea i've ever heard but it is pretty close. >> i'm sure that vladimir putin could be of enormous assistance in that effort since he is doing the hacking. >> since it was so ridiculed just 12 hours later president trump with a tweeting against it. the fact we discussed a cybersecurity unit doesn't mean it can happen. it can't. there was time for one cabinet member to defend that very same idea partnering with putin on cybersecurity.
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>> i think this is a very step forward that what we want to make sure is that we coordinate with russia, focused on cybersecurity together, make sure that they never interfere in any democratic elections or conduct any cybersecurity. this is about making sure we both fight cyber together. which i think is a very significant accomplishment for president trump. >> . are there any ties between mr. trump, you or your campaign and putin and his regime? just g. go to and shop multiple loan offers for free! free? yeah. could save thousands. you should probably buy me dinner. no. go to for a new home loan or refinance. receive up to five free offers and choose the loan that's right for you. our average customer could lower their monthly bills by over three hundred dollars. go to right now.
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are there any ties between mr. trump, you or your campaign and putin and his regime? >> no, there are not. that's absurd. and you know, there's no basis to it. >> did anyone involved in the trump campaign have any contact with russians trying to meddle with the election? >> absolutely not. and i discussed that with the president-elect just last night. those conversations never happened.
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>> i'm not aware of any of those activities. i've been told a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and i did not have communications with the russians. >> i have nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge, no person that i deal with does. >> no collusion whatsoever? >> anybody involved with trump or with russia in the 2016 campaign. >> no. >> did any adviser or anyone in the trump campaign have any contact with the russians who are trying to meddle. >> well. course not. >> of course not. >> from last july to early march of this year, the trump campaign made at least 20 denials of interaction with russians. they just this weekend over the course of 24 hours donald trump jr gave two different with the russian meeting with connections to the correct lin. former national security adviser, michael flynn, did not disclose meetings with kislyak
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and reportedly lied to his phone conversations with kislyak. attorney general jeff sessions said he had not met any russian officials last year when asked about the possibility of such a meeting under oath during his confirmation hearing in january. it later turned out that in fact he had. and then there's the president's son-in-law, jared kushner russian paper trail next.
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an detail that jared kushner met with a russian lawyer for damaging information about hillary clinton. the meeting was closed when jared kushner filed a revised version much a confidential form required to obtain a security clearance. that form reads have you or any member of your immediate family had any contact with a foreign government or its representatives. the reason kushner had to filed a revised version of that form is not only did he fail to disclose the meeting with the russian lawyer. he also managed to omit meetings with russian ambassador sergey kislyak in secret at trump tower and a meeting with the head of a sanctioned russian state bank. now, false declarations or omissions on that form can be punishable by fines or imprisonment. joining me now, betsy woodruff. sam, there's this interesting theory floating around that the sources behind this story, putting things on donald, jr., are actually people around jared kushner.
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the reason for that is this appears to come from someone showing or reading off the new fs 86. the biggest problem is that kushner now has a third meeting left off a form that says at the top if you omit things you are committing a felony. >> yeah. there's a distinct someone's getting thrown under the bus quality to this, because this isn't, you know, unlike the leaks that we supposedly received from the national security apparatus, this comes from the white house. and it's very difficult i think looking from the outside in to get a real sense of the various con tet wen -- constituencies and what they gain. clearly somebody is trying to protect somebody. the idea that three top officials of a campaign would meet someone who they don't know about something that they're not aware of in the heat of a
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campaign is really hard to believe. >> betsy, you seem to agree with that, do you? >> i think -- yes, i think without a doubt. what's important to bear in mind with the jared kushner side of this is that any possibility that he could be prosecuted for omitting those meetings from his form system a bit of a stretch. as of where we're at right now. i spoke about this just a few minutes ago with a former federal prosecutor who explained that just the fact that he omitted those statements doesn't mean any prosecutor would bring charges. to bring charges in a case like this you would have to bring charges beyond a reasonable doubt that he willfully left those off his security clearance forms. he's been adamant that it's been just a mistake and unless a prosecutor can prove other jared can be in the clear.
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>> in terms of practice of how sf 86 prosecutions happen, that appears to be correct in terms of what -- who actually gets prosecuted for omitting things. although i will note that sneaking sergey kislyak into trump tower and, you know, floating the idea of a secret back channel in which you use russian diplomatic facilities is a sort of thing you might remember. but the bigger thing to me, sam s that there's just this unbelievable unity that the mistruths, the falsehoods, the deceptions about this one topic time and time and time and time again. >> well, you know, the real sort of fundamental particular about this meeting which differentiates it from lying is this is the first time we've actually seen -- we've crossed this sort of threshold where we see a willingness to get information from the russians, right? in the past there's always been this sort of like possibility for an argument of well, we were
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making reproach, we were involved in policy, we didn't want to discuss it with the american public because we knew from a political standpoint, maybe it's not that popular and we wanted to have this unfold at our own timing. but this is a situation where donald trump, jr., had this meeting because he thought he was getting some type of research from a lawyer who is both closely associated with some russian mafia type scandals and also the russian government. and certainly paul manafort would have known this as soon as he walked through the door it seems to me. >> that is an excellent point about manafort who is quite ready into all this $10 million contract as a foreign agent for a while also representing as a foreign agent the ukrainian president who was sort of chased out alive at the kremlin. betsy, it seems to me that there's a really interesting shift today where all of a sudden, as soon as don, jr.,
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admitted the meeting everyone led by him came around to so what, it's not a big deal. you meet with a russian foreign adversary. to me it's how they're going to deal with new revelations which is whatever is revealed isn't a problem. >> exactly. that's been the trump m.o. what struck me about don, jr. making that admission is it seems like he's getting some legal advice. i had this meeting. this is what we talked about. she didn't give me any useful information. that's a pretty astonishing statement to make. and he made it in his own voice and didn't have a lawyer making that statement for him. typically if someone is going to give a revelation like that you have your lawyer do it. that's why reporters have to call trump's legal team to get lawyers on this stuff. whoever is giving him legal advice is giving him advice that's quite perplexing. >> or in the case of jamie who is running interference, i will say he did retain a lawyer today and still continued to tweet in
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spite of himself which i found humanizing and deeply relatable. thanks for joining us. >> sure thing. that. >> that is all in. tonight the unfolding russia sag aire now includes the son of the president, the bombshell report out about donald trump jr. and his changing explanation for meeting a russian lawyer with potential dirt on hillary clinton. and the breaking news tonight that trump jr. was told in advance was russia trying to help his dad. among our guests a former republican white house ethics lawyer even before in story was saying it's time to use the word treason. and president trump's plan to work with putin on cybersecurity until he took it back. the 11th hour this monday night begins right now. begins right now. and


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