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tv   MSNBC Live With Hallie Jackson  MSNBC  July 11, 2017 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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have you learned? >> well, she, we had a long interview, a long conversation. i guess i think what i learned was that she was investigating a number of things and including talking here in moscow about having some information she thought she had about the clinton campaign. and that knowledge appears to have reached the trump campaign and that at some point there begins to have a point of having this meeting. certainly by her account she gets a phone call in which she is told to go to trump tower and there she is met by a publicist called robert goldstein and she's taken upstairs into the room where she is there with then candidate trump's son,
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donald trump jr., as well as jared kushner and paul manafort and then she says that donald trump jr. conducted the meeting and that she was talking about trying to change legislation and they seem to be interested in whether she had information about hillary clinton. take a listen. >> they had the impression, it appears, that they are going to be told some information that you had about the dnc. how did they get that impression? >> translator: it's quite possible that maybe they were looking for such information. they wanted it so badly. >> and i asked her directly whether she had work and was pushed to do this by the russian government. there have been allegations of that. she denies that completely that this is in any way connected to the kremlin, hallie. >> keir, can you give us a little insight into what it was like to be conducting this
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interview. i don't know if you can give m.d >> yeah, i'm always very cautious about trying to give my opinion about whether somebody who does an interview is genuine or not and whether they're telling the truth or whatever that is. and, obviously, of course, not least because all you're doing really is trying to get one person's recollection of events that started a year ago. she describes the meeting as pretty unproductive and in that sense her account tallies with that of donald trump jr. so, in a way you can imagine from her account at least it's not something that she, you know, there are parts of it that she doesn't remember so well. but, you know, look, she does certainly appear to be trying to set out the facts of the events as she saw them.
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and that does seem to be some confusion in this meeting over why she was there and on both sides. in the end, it looks as if that is where they landed. that's how they concluded this meeting. the question then is now whether the characterization by donald trump jr. fits with her characterization. and i think i'll leave other folks to figure that out for themselves. >> keir simmons live from moscow. thank you. by the way, you heard keir reference that lengthy interview. much more tonight on nbc "nightly news" with lester holt. i want to go to kristen welekr over at the white house. giving very different recollections of that meeting back in june. don jr. is out talking about the e-mail story from overnight in "new york times." walk us through some new pieces of the puzzle here. >> donald trump jr. is digging in not surprisingly. let's get to some of the developments by "new york times"
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reporting overnight. i think this critical piece before the meeting that you all talked about. mr. trump was informed in an e-mail that the material was part of a russian government effort to aid his father's candidacy. this is really the first time that we are learning about someone within president trump's then campaign's inner circle. not only meeting with the russians, but being given information that pointed to the russian government. trying to interfere. and intervene in the 2016 race. now, part of the problem for donald trump jr. is that his story has continued to shift and change. initially he said he took that meeting because he thought it was about russian adoptions and then he says he was given a promise of information, damaging information about his father's rival hillary clinton. he is digging in today, though, dc defending him on twitter. take a look at the tweet he sent out early this morning. media and dems invested in the
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russia story. if this nonsense meeting is all they have after a year, i understand the desperation. and then this from his newly appointed attorney who says, in my view, this is much to do about nothing during this busy period robert goldstone who helped set up this meeting, contacted don jr. a and also important to point out that a spokesperson for the president's outside legal counsel said that he wasn't aware of this meeting. that's what donald trump jr. is saying, as well. he is also insisting that he didn't get any information. there is no follow through from this meeting. bottom line, this continues to raise very difficult questions and you have mounting calls on capitol hill now for him to testify. he says he's willing to cooperate. hallie sn hallie? >> kristen, thank you. i want to bring in the folks sticking with us for the hour and one-time lawyer for president george w. bush, thomas
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dupree and josh barrow thomas. let me start with you. normally we're on the same set. walk me through the interview that keir laid out with the lawyer linked to the kremlin though she says yet no connections to the russian government in this interview. what is your take away from that? >> hallie, my take away is this just underscores that we are in the shadowy world of espionage. i think it is going to be very difficult for anyone to pinpoint exactly what led to this meeting and then exactly what happened during this meeting. we've gotten conflicting stories from the participants in the meeting. some stories have evolved over time and the lesson here is that this is a meeting that donald jr. should have stayed away from. nothing good is going to happen when you meet with russian, potential russian operatives. >> so, what is more concerning to you? the lack of understanding that
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campaign officials were making themselves potentially vulnerable or people of the presidential campaign back in june of last year who didn't know they were meeting with. there were these questions at the time even walking into the meeting. >> look, no question that trump ran an unconventional campaign that didn't quite have the management procedures that you would see in republican or democratic campaigns. i think what underscores or what is evident here is that this is the sort of meeting that would not have happened if they had had kind of a more campaign structure in place. wouldn't take a meeting like this nor invite senior campaign officials or people like kushner to come to this meeting without knowing exactly who you were going to see what the purpose in the meeting was and why you were bringing all these hay-level campaign officials into the room. >> let me tell you what jeremy bash said this morning over on "today" show. he had this interesting comment and then holly and josh, i'll have you jump in. >> not only should he have not taken the meeting, but should have alerted the fbi. i was involved in the 2000
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presidential election working for vice president gore. we received some damaging information about the opposing candidate bush. we immediately alerted the fbi and that's what you have to do. >> holly? >> i mean. all of this is so surprising. but, you know, we covered trump. and we covered the trump campaign and we remember the disarray and how conventional they were. yesterday i was thinking about the period of time in which this was in. and there was disarray about who was managing the campaign and who was in charge and there was a moment when the kids' influence were rising and you wonder, okay, did don jr. say i'm having this meeting and you had manafort and kushner jump in. so many questions about what is happening here and what the motivation for this was. >> they're using this basically like i was so naive i took this meeting and we never ran a campaign before. >> literally calling it it a nonsense meeting. >> paul manafort was in this
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meeting. very seasoned campaign operative and paul manafort knows how and sort of like that russian lawyer and plays and paul manafort did not work for these entities in the ukraine worked for business people linked to putin-linked interests. this is how it works in russia and you these businessmen who are closely aligned with the government and you don't work for the government but you are aligned and paul manafort and you have this broader thing where paul manafort and working for free for donald trump. paul manafort is a very wealthy man. made millions and millions of dollars and paul manafort is not working for free. if he isn't being paid by the trump campaign, one wonders who he was being paid by. you don't have this defense i don't know what was going on. paul manafort would have known what was going on.
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>> interesting question in the news letter. if "new york times" knows all this. what does bob mueller know? >> i expect bob mueller is one or two steps ahead of "new york times." he has access to documents that "times" doesn't. i suspect we'll see mueller pushing ahead and building his case and he is doing this in private. and i hope we don't see this reported in "new york times." media is one or two steps behind. >> holly, when we look at the e-mail story that came out overnight that potentially donald trump jr. had been notified that this was russians looking to essentially help his father. that sort of landed with an explosion, right? that's another huge piece to this story. we haven't heard the president tweet about this. i expect at 2:00 p.m. today when sarah huckabee sanders holds her off camera briefing this is question number one most likely. what is the white house needing to do here? >> i think the silence of the president says a lot. this is a president that tweets about everything.
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the fact that he's not tweeting about this is telling. the question is, the white house continually has the same answer of sort of stonewalling on this. and you have to wonder how long that can continue in some ways. >> i want to pull this up and i'm looking at my e-mail. we're getting word in from kasie hunt from senator tim kaine who is leveling this accusation. we are now beyond obstruction of justice in terms of what is being investigated. this is moving into perjury and even potentially treason. this is some of the strongest language we have heard yet and potentially treason? >> i don't think we're there yet. i don't see how we're anywhere near treason charge. i think what happened here is an you had an ill-advised meeting and i think the e-mail disclosure that trump jr. may have known the purpose of the meeting puts things in less light for the administration and they're going to need to explain why they don't need to report it
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and i don't think we're anywhere near treason at this point. >> i don't think you need to get to treason. the thing about this mueller investigation and the way trump operates all sorts of various wrongdoing and financial stuff that mueller is looking into. why is the white house so about this? there is some very serious wr g wrongdoing that they don't want discovered. doesn't have to be about the fact that trump is sensitive that he didn't win the election fair and square. a serious cover up can indicate very serious wrongdoing underlying. >> holly and josh, i'll make you hang out with me a little longer. much more to talk about. we're heading to the hill after the break because mitch mcconnell is working to get his health care bill and could drop it as soon as thursday. is that enough for some republicans? >> i don't think that we can fix this bill by doing a tweak here and a trim there.
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utah governor mike levitt and epa administrator in the george w. bush administration. back with me holly and josh borro with "business insider." garret, you have been running around and doing a ton of reporting on the hill. fill us in on what you got. >> sure. i think we're seeing senators start to come back today and they're facing essentially two big political realities. the number one they went home and heard from their constituents and they know the bill they left town with is not popular and not going to get popular. it needs to be changed. the second reality is republicans say they know they need to get something passed. you hear this most acutely for people from ted cruz and they have run on this promise for so long and they know they have to get something done and this sense of crunchtime on the hill to get a bill in front of the entire senate before they go home again at the end of august. right now, a lot of these senators are holding their cards very close to their vest because they don't know what will be in
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this new draft. i spoke to rob portman who said we have to wait and see what will happen on thursday. some of the senators who have been noes or not yes yet this amendment that ted cruz and mike lee put in is something that might get them there. >> are you optimistic you guys can get this done before august? >> we certainly should be able to. we have information. i received some studies that hhs has been sitting on that caused premiums to the increase. they can utilize to fund those high-risk pools or, you know, really kind of address other members' concerns. i think we certainly have the maneuvering room to get this done and we should get it done. >> so, hallie, you're watching thursday. i'm watching monday. because i think as many of these senators said they have
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problemed based on what they saw thursday will tell us about what is in this bill and when we find out what the top line numbers are and the medicaid spending and things like that look like on monday and if the bill comes out thursday it might lag a few days. that is extremely telling of where this thing goes next. >> monday it is. that is the day we're watching. thank you very much. i want to bring in now former governor levitt. let me ask you this. you heard garret talk about this cruz amendment and the freedom choice that would allow certain states or states to drop out of certain provisions to drop out of this act. you push the cruz amendment which will bring on the ted cruzes and the mike lees without ailiating the susan collins of the world and are they saying, we're not going to get susan collins so we'll move on and go in a more conservative direction? >> this is a balloon and you push on it and it goes in another place.
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the republicans can pass something and what we're seeing is a lot of negotiating. if you want to get something changed, you have to hold out. they have to give it to you. as was pointed out by garret. they have campaigned on this for seven years. to a large extent, this boils down to a discussion about whether or not we're going to claim this as repeal and replace or repair. and of the affordable care act. there is a lot of areas where there is agreement that things need to be changed. and the question for mitch mcconnell is do i have to go to something that is bipartisan or can i fulfill the republican promise of "repealing and replacing." >> how do you get there? you were the health secretary. where is the room for compromise. what do you put in so the balloon doesn't pop from your analogy from earlier? >> we don't know what cards and
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it is hard to know how that shuffle will look. but i do think that in time they're going to find a 'll see. it will not be the profound version of repeal and replace. but there will be change and the truth is there needs to be change and both parties acnology that. >> i want to get holly and josh in here. mike, does the president need to be jumping in here more? do you want to see something more proactive from him on health care? >> i think the president recognizes that this is a delemma on the hill and he's having to count on mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. my judgment is donald trump will sign anything that has the words repeal and replace on the top of it. >> holly's laughing here. you agree, i assume. >> in some ways. endlessly astounding to me. i covered two white houses george w. bush and barack obama
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and the lack of travel we've seen from donald trump out there trying to sell this to his supporters. >> president obama held a news conference tapitch it to the american public. >> i think people are too lost in the weeds on this bill. the headline is the bill cuts -- >> would never think you would hate being in the weeds. >> cuts a trillion dollars on spending over a decade. the bill will require individual americans to spend a trillion dollars more out of their own pocket on health care over the next decade. of course, that's unpopular. you can make changes to like, oh, we'll tweak the age rating rule on premiums and make it more expensive for young people. little less expensive for old people and still that trillion dollars that americans will have to come up that they'll pay in bills to hospitals and insurers over this period. they're going to hate that. the only way to make them not hate it is taspeo spend more mo. over little elements of the bill, none of it is going to
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work to make the thing nontoxic. >> nonpartisan and it's been out and i want to quote you from this. basically says obamacare is actually not collapsing. the quote is. this new data offers new data that the individual market has been stabilizing and insurers are regaining profitability. for months republicans are saying obamacare is in a death spiral and how does this play into the debate? >> look, you can find studies that will say about anything in washington, d.c. >> this is a reputable one. this is kaiser. the gold standard when it comes to health care policy. >> highly reputable, but there are think tanks that are highly reputable on both sides. this is going to boil down not just to $1 trillion coming out of the budget of health care and a tax cut implication. these kind of decisions boil down to who matters, who pays and who decides. and those are the struggles that are going on right now.
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what's the role of health care in the federal government? what role will the states play? and where's the money going to come from? whose pocket? >> secretary levitt, we'll leave it it there. thank you for that perspective. we're talking about this, again, if you can believe it after the break. first, back to donald trump jr. and russia and how that preelection and the campaign election went down. the two stories we have do not seem to match up. what is congress going to do to get to the bottom of it. republican congressman chris stewart is joining me next to talk about it. she's nationally recognized
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we are now back with more information denying she had dirt on hillary clinton. she tells nbc news in an exclusive interview the trump campaign wanted it so badly. happening right now the nypd officer who was shot can killed on duty last week. the service is being held at a church in the bronx here in new york city. governor cuomo, mayor de blasio and james o'neil all attended familia's wake last night. looks like the olympics
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could be headed to the u.s. the international olympic committee is meeting in switzerland and award the 2024 summer games. an official announcement is expected in september. remember, the last time l.a. hosted the olympics was back in 1984. so, within just the last hour or so here on this network, ranking member on the house intelligence committee congressman adam shift responded to that tweet from donald trump jr. where he wrote media and dems are extremely invested in the russia story. if this nonsense meeting is all they have after a year i understand the desperation. here's what congressman shift had to say. >> there's an awful lot more even in the public domape, bin. but the events don't inspire a lot of confidence. >> chris stewart of utah a member of that house committee. thank you for being here with us. we appreciate it.
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>> good morning. >> let me get your reaction to what adam shift had to say. do you think the shifting accounts also do not inspire a lot of confidence to you? >> well, i think there's actually a lot of things about this investigation and people's reaction to it that don't inspire a lot of confidence. we have been looking at this for nearly a year now. i was in moscow last august and i came back and said, they're going to mess with our elections. we just knew they were. as you know, we have two committees and mr. mueller who is looking into this. there are some different accounts and, honestly, i know there are some people who go to bed at night and they dream that donald trump is going to be impeached over russia. i think they wake up again and again disappointed. i think this story probably is going to be an example of that. i don't think there is much there right now. >> so, an adviser to the president was on this network and called this a massive nothing. >> i think there is some fair questions to ask about this but we have talked to natalia and
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said i had no negative information on mrs. and mr. trump jr. said this was a conversation primarily about the russian adoption issue. so, i mean, that's kind of what we know now and unless something really dramatic is revealed after this, i think that's probably where we left off. >> first of all, you said we talked to the lawyer. did the house intel committee, have they spoken with this lawyer? >> no, no, i'm just talking about press reports. >> that's fine. but it is conflicting accounts, right? donald trump jr. said he was contacted regarding the hillary clinton information. the lawyer says she never had any of that information. that wasn't the premise of the meeting. two different accounts here. >> as i started out the interview, that has been fairly common as we've gone through this process. sometimes you do hear conflicting accounts. i think in this case neither one is very meaningful. you could take either one of them and at the end of the day you have two people who agree that we talk about the russian adoption issue and smee sahe sa
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didn't have any information on secretary clinton that was negative. she didn't share any information on the secretary that was negative. that's where we are. >> you've had campaigns and you've run for congress. if somebody comes to you and say i have damaging information on your opponent and, hey, by the way, they're linked to the russian government. >> i think i would probably ask him, look, did you really have that information and prodded a little bit. if they did, then i would say, you need to talk to the fbi. >> should don jr. have reported this to the fbi? >> i think if he had a meeting and some of that information was shared, they probably should have. and i think he probably would have. but, again, there wasn't any negative information that was shared and she said i didn't have any negative information. so, again, there we are. >> do you want don jr. to appear before your committee? >> i think there's probably some fair questions to ask. they've indicated that they're willing tame ing to meet before committee and i think for the american people, this is one of those examples where there are
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some questions, let's ask these questions and then lets include that in our report. >> i want to play you something that we talked about a few minutes ago on the show. that is what senator tim kaine is saying about all this. i would like to get your response or your take away on the other side. here it is. >> we are beyond obstruction of justice in terms of what is being investigated. this is moving into perjury, false statements and even into potentially treason. >> potentially treason the senator says. do you think that is a -- he has a point? >> oh, my heavens. i think it's silly. i think the american people look at this and say, show me the treason. show me the obstruction and collusion. those kind of statements that really betray the american people's confidence and their faith. they want this investigation to go forward but, meanwhile, when people say there is treason, most americans go, i don't know. where is it? we have been hearing that for a long time and we don't see any evidence.
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i think it's regretful he would say something like that. honestly, it's not helpful to the investigations when we have people who draw conclusions that the evidence just simply doesn't support. >> you have indicated in this report that there is less than meets the eye in this meeting between the lawyer and donald trump jr. let me ask you this. the white house, the president himself, they have repeatedly said no collusion. no interaction even between russian operatives and the campaign. now, it comes to light that don jr. did, in fact, meet with someone who had ties to the kremlin. do you trust what the white house is saying regarding this? >> i have a question on one thing and that is i don't know. maybe you have information that i don't have. i don't know any evidence that she has ties to the kremlin. in fact, she says that she doesn't. >> vladimir putin also says he didn't interfere with the election. she was asked directly by keir simmons if she had links to the government. >> when vladimir putin says he didn't interfere, that's
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laughable on his face. we all know that's not true. when she says we don't have ties to the kremlin, we don't know if that's true. an absence evidence and fair to say she is an agent of the russian government when we don't know. heard so many times and so many reports come out and people think this is a bombshell. this is a game changer. this is going to lead the resignation or impeachment of mr. trump and again and again it turns out there is not much there. it seems to me. now, look, maybe i'm wrong. maybe we'll find out more about this. but based on what we know now, this seems to me just another example of that. >> this lawyer is connected to the russian government, but i want to get to something that is coming your way in the house and that is the sanctions bill. one second, congressman. i want to ask you. the sanctions bill that has gone through the senate and passed
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with bipartisan support. currently tied up in the house. i want to get where you are on that bill. do you support that? >> absolutely. absolutely support that. >> do you want to see it come to the floor? >> absolutely. russia is going to mess with our elections. they clearly did. they should be held accountable. vladimir putin is a kgb thug. we should treat him like what he is and that is an adversary to western values. i think the sanctions are a good way of doing that. >> congressman chris stewart, thank you very much for joining us here. coming up next, talking about that deadly military crash in mississippi. more than a dozen people have been killed. more information we're learning this morning about what happened. mmmm.
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investigators right now are at the scene of a military plane crash that killed all 16 people onboard. hans nichols following all the developments live from the pentagon. what else do we know about what happened here in this horrific crash. >> it's puzzling to investigators because initial assessments are that this plane landed upside down and crashed in that way. a lot of reports coming in not furly confirmed. it's not officially from the pentagon, but they saw a fire in the back policiy. not in one of the engines. remember, this is a kc130. it is a workhorse and been around for a long time.
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officials keep stressing what a safe airplane this is. just how rare. it's got four engines and a turbo prop. if there is a fire in engine, you can shut it off. little more information of those 16 deceased. 15 of them were marines. one of them was a navy sailor. we've learned the wing, the aircraft wing and they asked us to hold on to that information until next of kin is notified. >> hans, the president tweeting about this today. >> you saw president trump and mike pence offer their condolences. marine plane crash in mississippi is heartbreaking. melania and i send our deepest condolences to all. karen and i are praying for the families of the marines who lost their lives. these marines will be in our hearts. just a reminder the c-30 does. it's a refueler. used since the vietnam war. it does have a very safe track record. they're refueling planes that are part of the u.s. mission helping the saudis.
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and it's a shoithly different, but helping the saudis in their campaign against the yemens. so, this is a very active plane used all across the middle east and, obviously here in the states where things went badly. guys? >> hans nichols, thank you very much. next up back to the battle over repealing obamacare. leadership behind closed door looking to win over skeptics. there's the senator. he's joining us live just after the break. (baby crying) ♪ fly ♪ me to the moon (elegant music) ♪ and let me play
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i can be more active. ask your doctor about lyrica. >> we cannot wait. and i think the president talking to the american people will help drive those phone calls to those senators and encourage them to get it done this month. >> that's house majority leader kevin mccarthy there when asked whether a speech from the president might help out the republican health care moves. today senate republicans are looking for a plan to repeal and replace the affordable care act and looking forward to thursday when we might see that text and monday when the score comes out. one of the senators who is currently a no is joining me now. senator john hoeven of north
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dakota. >> good to be with you, hallie. >> ted cruz has come out with an amendment tago get more senator on board. are you on board with the cruz amendment? >> i need to see it and understand it and that includes seeing what the cbo score is and an analysis so that i understand what the impact is. >> so, it sounds like you're not ready to come off the fence until at least monday when we get the cbo score potentially? >> we need to see these amendments and an analysis of the amendments so we understand what the impact is going to be. >> are you at least encouraged by the direction that ted cruz and mike lee is moving towards here? making a more conservative bill. is that what you want to see? >> a number of things that i want to see. i want to see, let's start with a goal. that is to make sure that people have access to health care and that means more choice and more competition, no doubt. but it also means that we have to make sure that between medicaid and refundable tax credit that low-income people
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have that access to coverage, as well. >> a slow rollback of medicaid essentially something crucial for you? >> i come from a rural state and we need to make sure between medicaid and the refundable tax credit that not only have access to coverage but it works in terms of health care providers, particularly in rural areas. some of the critical access hospitals and our small communities. >> that is your line in the sand on this thing. who has come to talk to you to get you onboard? what has the courtship process been like for you? >> i talked to pretty much everybody that you can think of. certainly our leadership, the administration. we had the meeting where we all went up and visit with the president. i talked to vice president pence many times. secretary price. sema verma. so, obviously, we're talking to all of them trying to come up with a solution. >> are you there? >> we're not there yet but we
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have to keep working on it. obamacare. we're seeing premiums go through the roof and areas of the country that don't have access to coverage. we have to do something to get health care reform under way. >> senator cornyn wants a vote next week. is that realistic? >> we'll see. we need to see the amendments and see the cbo score and then we need to know what's in them. of course, again, i'm trying to make sure that it's something that works for everybody, including the health care industry so that people have that coverage and access to health care. we'll see. all along i said i'm less concerned about the timing and more concerned about getting it right and that it's going to be a process and not one bill. >> speaking of timing and speaking of ted cruz. here he is on what should happ happen in the coming weeks and months. >> urging leadership from back in january. let's work every day and let's work weekends and let's work
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until we get the job done. >> so, senator, are you onobobo with canceling august recess? is that the right move? >> look, i want to get the work done for the americanpeople. i'd like to get it done sooner have something by the first of august. if it takes working into august, i'm fine with that. >> i talked with mike about the new kiser foundation study that shows obamacare is not actually collapsing and that has been part of the republican argument against obamacare for a while now. how do you see the study playing into this debate? >> there's serious issues that have to be addressed. we're seeing premiums going up dramatically and they will continue to go up significantly and you're seeing parts of the country that don't have insurance carriers that will provide coverage to the exchanges. both sides are making their arguments, but there is no question that obamacare is imploding. we need to address it. >> okay and again, with the
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kaiser foundation is talking about the facts on the ground this year. i've got to get you on record with this, would you support a repeal only move? is that something you would back? >> the concern with that, you'll leave people without coverage, which is why we're trying to do repeal and replace so i have concerns about that. >> senator toomey said i didn't expect donald trump to win, most of my colleagues didn't, we didn't expect to be in this situation, talking about hgt care here. republicans have been promising to do this for seven years, is that why it's so hard to put together the 50 votes? >> remember, you've got different people through the seven-year stretch, including a new president. getting consensus particularly when you're trying to get 50 out of 52, and you've got a range of views there, it is a challenge and again, it's about getting a good product and it's not a one step deal. it's a process. even the administration has said we get it started with legislation and then hhs has to take steps and then we come back
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with additional legislation, which we've talked about being bipartisan all along. it is a process. >> let me ask you to get in the political weeds a little bit. do you feel a little more freedom perhaps to oppose where your party is going on this because of your standing in north dakota, do you feel that's playing in politically to your decision-making, in the sense that you can if the president wants a bill say no and feel comfortable about it? >> i want to get to a good solution for my state of north dakota and people of this country. >> one more before i let you go too, donald trump jr. has been dominating the headlines, we have the news about the meeting with the lawyer we've been talking about here. a massive nothing burger. is it a nothing burger to you? >> look, let's get the facts. once again, we get these different stories and so forth but we've got the senate intelligence committee on a bipartisan basis going through all of this.
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they'll interview him and get the facts. let's get the facts then we can make a reasoned judgment as to exactly what happend. >> any red flags raised for you? >> the red flag for me the russians meddled in our election. we cannot tolerate that. that's why we passed a bill to sanction them and should sanction russia. >> thank you very much for joining us here on this program. i appreciate it. >> i want to come back now to holly and josh. we obviously have heard from senator hoeven, interesting he wouldn't back the cruz amendment. i want your reaction and what you're watching over the next few days here. holly? >> i was surprised to hear him say that. one of the things i'm watching is republicans like him and especially republicans like shelley and rob portman who came out after they delayed the vote to say they didn't support the bill, been all over the place what they are going to do. they represent states that are very rural in parts and states that are very reliant on
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medicaid and dealing with the opioid epidemic. those two lawmakers in particular are going to decide -- we're going to know -- they are going to determine whether we have a vote next week. >> there's all of this other stuff that congress is supposed to be doing. they wanted to get health care out of the way to raise the debt limit by sometime between august and october. they can't agree on when. republicans have historically tried to attach policy riders trying to reduce the deficit. if the government is to continue paying its bills, they have to reach agreement on that and the budget is a nonbinding document so congress doesn't all succeed at that. if they want the tax reform, they need the budget to get that done. those questions are also hard like the health care question and they can't get to them because they are so mired in heg care. >> it seems like the ten republicans exceptical of where this bill is heading. what you're hearing from senator hoeven, these guys aren't fwgoi
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to decide or make a decision until next week. until the cbo score comes out, that's going to be the deciding factor and seems to be problematic. >> i think the political incentives are different than they were in the house. all of the republicans wants to get to yes but as you saw and note, senator hov oxhoeven is v popular, with the ability to say no unless they get what they are demanding, it's very hard to come up with a think that makes 50 feel like they got what they demanded. >> and the longer it goes, the trickier it gets for mitch mcconnell. >> do you think he can pull arab bit out of the hat? >> it's a big question. they've been working towards this for years and years. this is the biggest test of mitch mcconnell's career, quite frankly. >> i don't think anyone has happened in the past two weeks to make it easier. it feels like a repeat of what said before.
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>> josh and holly, you'll be watching it all as it goes down. thank you both for joining us here in new york. it's nice to see you in the flesh. we're going to be back with today's big picture right after this quick break. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes!
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as you know, we've been talking about the new segment we call the big picture on the show. it's a photograph we think tells a story, an important one or funny one or one not covered enough. today's big picture is coming to us from syria. it's a frame grab from a video posted by the government controlled syrian central
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military. these are syrian forces taking position during fighting between government forces and isis. the u.n. special envoy has a cease fire in parts of the country says is generally holding. this is coming from the syrian central military via the ap. i'll post that big picture on my facebook and twitter and snap chat pages and a lot of response to yesterday's photo of the one from california. responding to all of it after the show and hope to see you there. thanks for tuning in this hour. i'll see you back in washington, d.c. tomorrow. for now, more news with ali velshi and stepanie ruhle. >> we were just talking about pilates and scooping out our bellies and that works better for stephanie -- >> we were talking about chair heighth and i think this is how -- >> that's generally how it goes. >> have a great rest of your day. she wants to be out of here as

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