tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 21, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PDT
headquarters here in new york. >> tonight on all in. >> how do you take a job and recuse yourself. >> mu fallout from the new york times bombshell. >> would that be a breech of what his actual charge snchts i would say, yes. >> tonight the white house responds to a report that the special counsel is following trump's money. >> i sell a lot of condo units and somebody from russia buys a condo, who knows. >> how seriously are you considering possibly resigning. >> as the president turns on his own, new details of a white house in crisis. then the alarming implication of trump's version of that undisclosed meeting. >> actually, it was very interesting. we talked about adoption.
>> new subpoena threats for paul manafort and donald trump jr. >> i was just with a lot of people and said who wouldn't take a meeting like that. >> all in starts now. >> good evening from new york i'm joy reed in for chris hayes. last night donald trump said his family's finances were off limits to special counsel robert mueller. today new reporting suggests robert mueller is going there anyway. the white house says there are no plans to fire him, quote, at this time. first the new york time has posted audio of what was the most shocking exchange in their latest interview with the 45th president. >> mueller was looking at your finances and your family finances unrelate today russia is that a red line? >> would that be a breech of what his actual charge is. >> i would say yes. by the way, i don't -- i mean, it's possible a condo or something. i sell a lot of condo units somebody from russia buys a condo, who knows. i don't make money from russia.
i put out a letter saying i don't. i don't have buildings in russia, they said i own buildings in russia, i don't. they said i made money from russia, it's not my thing. i don't do that. over the years i looked at maybe doing a deal in russia, but i don't do that. other than the miss universe pageant. >> if he was outside that lane would that mean he'd have to go. >> no. i think that's a violation. look this is about russia. >> but a full investigation of the trump/russia relationship would almost have to look at the finances. the rights to host the miss universe pagt were security by russian oligarch agalarov. for the miss universe deal trump sr. was paid a $7 million license fee.
after the pageant the washington postsaid agalarov signed a preliminary deal to build a trump tower. telling forbes, if he hasn't run for president trump we would be in the construction face. eric once told him they financed their golf courses with russian money saying we don't rely on american banks. we have all the funding we need out of russia. eric trump denied the claim. donald trump jr. in 2008 touted the ties to russia at a real estate conference. saying russians make up a disproportionate cross-section of our assets. saying we see a lot of money pouring in from russia. then there's jared kushner. the postreports mueller is investigating jared kushner's finances.
as kushner's company was seeking financing for its troubled $1.8 billion purchase of an office building at 666 fifth ach in new york. "the wall street journal" says they're investing possible money laundering by p.m. who's reportedly in debt to prokremlin interests for $17 million before he joined president trump's campaign. >> the ongoing probe by mueller says he's finding the strike zone, and is continuing to gather documents relevant to his choirry. and those include records and business dealings close to the trump campaign. we don't know what's happening in mueller's investigation but according to to a new report in bloomburg, which is based on an unnamed report, and has not been
confirmed. mueller expands to look directly at trump's transactions. that would seem to cross the red line laid out by trump yesterday but the white house claims his comments should not be viewed as a threat. >> the point he's trying to make is that the clear purpose of the russia investigation is to review russia's meddling in the election and that should be the focus of the investigation, nothing beyond that. the president is making clear that the special counsel should not move outside the scope of the investigation. >> joining me now is richard blumenthal a member of the senate judiciary committee. who has preapproved subpoenas to force paul manafort and donald trump jr. to appear before the committee. do you have any reason to believe they will refuse to testify and you will have to use the subpoenas.
>> there is no reason to believe they will not appear. they said they have nothing to hide. but personally, having talked to the chairman of the committee, he is intently serious on a bipartisan investigation and uncovering the truth. >> why do you want to talk to those two? what elements of the russia investigation would you personally want to probe with them. >> what i want to know from them is the background of the meeting that occurred in early june. one of the really shocking revelations in the "new york times" interview was the president acknowledging that he saw the e-mails offering -- in fact, promising dirt on hillary clinton before that june meeting. although he claims he didn't know anything about the meeting. i want to know what he knew and when he knew it. and they can begin to describe it. what's more, what happened after that meeting?
what kind of documents were exchanged? what kind of e-mails and what kind of additional meetings producing dirt on hillary clinton and possible promises to lift sanctions, which is what was at the height of putin's agenda. >> in the interview with the "new york times" he drew a red line saying any investigation into his personal finances would be a step too far and would not be related, and there was a threat he could fire mueller is, get rid of him if he crossed that red line. can you imagine doing a thorough investigation of the russia affair without looking at donald trump's finances. >> absolutely not. and robert mueller is absolutely right to be pursuing those financial dealings. they are integral to this investigation because one of the standard russian tactics and we heard about it in the judiciary committee is to, in fact, cultivate financial ties as a first step. and here they were offering those ties and -- in the form of dirt on hillary clinton.
so this kind of tactic is standard operating procedure for russian intelligence and robert mueller is absolutely right to explore it. and what's more, the president drawing a red line, these threats are powerful evidence of obstruction of justice. more evidence. >> if donald trump were to follow through on that threat, what mooilgt might on capitol hill? what would happen with your republican colleagues? >> as much as he's saying robert mueller might be crossing a line, i think president trump would be crossing a clear line and would provoke a fire storm, bipartisan, my republican colleagues i think would be outraged, along with the country. and what we'd see, i would help to lead it, is legislation creating a special prosecutor, much as happened in watergate, appointed by a three-judge panel that would be independent of the president of the united states.
so he would be unable to draw any lines. for him to say it is improper, unethical and probably illegal. >> if you think trump would find a way to fire mueller. which would include the recusal of rod rosenstein or firing him too, do you think the republicans would join in a special law for a special prosecutor. >> my conversations with colleagues lead me to believe there would be a substantial number if he would fire robert mueller who would join in this effort. we're one country, we want the rule of law for donald trump to implicitly threaten to fire a special counsel appointed to find the truth, an experienced person like bob mueller, i think they would join us. >> you had a twit errant about the jeff sessions where he said he regretted hiring jeff sessions and said had he known he would recuse himself from
russia he wouldn't have hired him. what if jeff sessions would be pushed out? what are your statements about jeff sessions? >> i posed jeff sessions. i was the first member of the judiciary committee to speak against him as the nominee for attorney general. but i believe that firing him for doing the right thing, which was to recuse himself, really would be wrong. in other words, he had no choice but to recuse himself having, in effect, told an untruth to the judiciary committee about his meeting with russians implicating himself in the investigation. and there's some question about whether rod rosenstein should recuse himself as well. so i think that the president, in effect threatening the present attorney general, as
much as i opposed him is absolutely wrong. maybe there's no legal recourse to it, but i was interested to see that the attorney general said he's staying. >> really quickly i want to ask you as a prosecutorial matter, donald trump established his own red line of what's too far to go into with the russian investigation. in your view, how do you expect mueller to go and how deep will the committees go? is there a red line that you wouldn't look at in terms of his business dealings in the past. >> as a former prosecutor, joy, i can tell you, there are no red lines. follow the evidence, follow the money. that's what robert mueller is doing. and the same is true of our investigation. he is looking at possible criminal charges.
which we cannot bring. we are looking at ways to improve the department of justice and prevent the kind of firing that occurred with jim comey among other factors and he can't do that. so we both have our separate independent purposes and neither of us should be drawing lines or setting off limits facts we need to do our jobs. >> senator thank you for being here. joining me now on the phone is nbc intelligence and national security reporter den delaney. he has a new report that robert mueller is finding the strike zone. ken, what does that mean? >> it means there's been some reporting out today that the investigation is widening to include trump financial transactions and our reporting at nbc news is that it's always been in part about that. and that, you know, from day one in this inquiry, robert mueller and his team have been looking at financial transaction by donald trump and his associates, and paul manafort. for example, we know the senate
is pouring through thousands of records from the treasurer department, from its money laundering agency regarding transactions of donald trump and his associates. and the investigation is building steam and mueller is gathering records. but we're not sure there's anything specifically new today that wasn't true yesterday. >> we learned yesterday from "the wall street journal" this is the story they did about paul manafort and what's being looked at, it says the snal committee has received reports from the treasury department's financial crimes enforcement new york to learn of any of donald trump's businesses may have ties to russian interests. and this is according to people who spoke with the "the wall street journal." trump claimed he has no such ties. do we have any reporting on that? >> the request has happened maybe four or more weeks ago. so this is not a new thing that they were going after the records. now they've gotten then.
they're a money laundering agency so they track financial transactions. they're looking to see if there's anything untoward between trump and his associates in russia. and that's what you would expect him to do. after all this whole thing got started in part with a dossier by a british's intelligence officer and that alleged the way russia tried to get in good with donald trump was to offer deals. we know they deemed parts of the dossier to be uncredible. nothing has been proven in this regard yet but it's not a surprise they're looking into it. >> thank you very much. joining me now is david kay johnson, author of the making of donald trump and jill winebanks. thank you for being here.
>> i'm going to start with you, david kay, just on the almosts that we learned in the last 24 hours of what bob mueller may be looking into with regard to the bloomberg report. it reports to three transactions that may be of interest to prosecutors one is the trump soho, the second was the 2013 ms. universe pageant in moscow, and the third was a sale of a mansion to a russian oligarch in 2008 which donald trump sold for 40 million, sold for 90 million, never livid in. are any of those relatable to the fact that is we know about russia gate? >> yes, donald is very vulnerable about his financial deeings with the russians going back to the 1980s.
that's the reason he said what he did yesterday. you don't get to pick your prosecutor and you don't get to tell your prosecutor what he can and cannot do. but back in may when mueller was appointed i wrote a column warning that trump would do exactly what he's done. suggest that it's improper to look beyond into the financing the russians have put into the trump family and businesses, even though intimately connected, they are, in fact, meddling in the election. and trump has made it clear in the interview with the "new york times" he thinks that's a line that shouldn't get crossed boy i hope mueller digs deeper. i hope he digs deep into his relationship with an international drug trafficker that he tried to get lenient treatment for in the 1980s. >> in the statement stay away from my money, it seems clear now that robert mueller is not
staying away from the money. how close are we headed to a nixon moment where he tried to fire the special prosecutor in that instance back in the 1970s and if donald trump did fire mueller, what do you expect to happen next? >> first of all one would hope that donald trump learns something from history and the reaction to the firing of arch bald cox was a jie nor mouse outpowering of support for the special prosecutor. it was that that led nixon to appointment a second special prosecutor and turn over the tapes that ended up being his doom. so if donald trump learns anything, my advise to him is don't fire the special prosecutor. but it'sry dig yous because there are so many parallels to watergate that he needs to be aware of and he seems to be completely unaware of them. >> as somebody who has gotten ahold of donald trump's tax
returns, in donald trump's reaction to bob mueller in straying into his money and businesses, a fear that bob mueller might actually subpoena the tax returns that you might see inside the trump organization in a way that might embe rasz him? is that what we're seeing here a president that is afraid of what might be found? >> i would assume mueller and his crew would get the tax returns. but you're supposed to keep books and records. donald has been known in the past to keep two sets of books and records, and not have books you're supposed to have. i'm sure bob mueller is going to look at them closely and the irs people do a good job when sifting through, when given a target to look for, they know how to find needles in hay stacks. >> we're hearing the word money laundering, not just with paul
manafort but the questions of what happened with the german bank that was the last lender left that would lend to donald trump that's been indicated to money laundering. how wide and extensive do you expect this to go? we're also now talking about a major global bank. >> when you start an investigation, you follow it wherever it leads. it seems obvious that the finances are an integral part of finding the truth in this matter and that the investigation will have to cover all of this, his tax returns, his books and records. all of his dealings with foreign banks, the money laundering is targeting right now mostly paul manafort but it could easily expand because once you start you don't know where it's going to end and you have to follow the road.
so i think that's what needs to happen. we need to know what the did the president know and when did he know it? i said from the beginning following the money may be the thing that will lead to the downfall of this presidency. >> i'm going to give you the last word david kay, how likely is it in your view that donald trump makes good on the threats to fire mueller and how much jeopardy is jeff sessions of losing his job, in your view? >> donald is always out for donald. he will throe members of his own family under the bus. he can't directly fire mueller. he has to find somebody to be his robert bork. he should have said to richard nixon, no, fire me i won't fire arch bald cox. >> i think you see republicans who in private are uncomfortable with trump begin to move to being publically uncomfortable with donald trump. >> we shall see. thank you both for being here. appreciate it. coming up donald trump turns on his own cabinet, disparaging his attorney general. tonight jeff sessions is
this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens. we have a great politician here. we have a man here who really helped me. he was the one person i sought his council because he's been so spot on. he's so highly respected. has anybody ever heard of senator jeff sessions? jeff come up. where's jeff. get over here jeff. >> nearly two years ago jeff sessions was a sitting republican senator from the state of alabama when he stood next to donald trump at a campaign rally sporting a make america great again hat. five months later he became the first senator to back trump. and trump called him a man of integrity, principal and resolved. yesterday trump questioned his judgment and basically said he
wished he had a different attorney general. >> so jeff sessions take it is job, gets into the job, recuses himself. i then have -- which frankly, i think is very unfair to the president. how do you take a job and then recuse yourself? if he would have recused himself before the job, i would have said thanks jeff but i'm not going to take you. >> the white house's deputy press secretary insisted today mr. president has confidence in mr. sessions. and he has no plans to resign is what jeff sessions said today. >> i have the honor of serving as attorney general is something that goes beyond any thought i
would have ever had for myself. we love this job, we love this department and i plan to continue to do so as long as that is appropriate. >> joining me now is political analyst robert kos ta and mckay cop pins. >> robert, i'm going to start with you. how much jeopardy is jeff sessions in? >> we've seen him move from being a close ally of the president to an ally at a distance. he is still in step with the president when it comes to hi agenda, his priorities he has this streak that trump has. but at the same time since that recusal has happened my sources inside the west wing told me the relationship has truly frayed. the president's frustrations in the "new york times" interview are revealing about the reality that's been ongoing for week. >> is that frustration because donald trump expected jeff sessions to cover him on russiagate?
to be his shield against any real movement of russian gate? >> i know my sources told me that the president does feel more vulnerable to attack. whether he expected jeff sessions to act as a sure, i'm not sure. he does feel sessions was a loyalist to him as a campaign. trump functions and thought of loyalty as the core quality he wants in some of his lieutenants in the recusal to the president seemed, as he said, unfair and leaves his administration, in his mind, under siege on russia-related matters. >> i think many commentators have used the word supine to describe the general reaction to donald trump. people say this is odd but don't do much about it.
you did a very interesting report on members of capitol hill and their sort of attitude of what can we do? but jeff sessions also has seemed to take this in stride. although he's gotten this vote of no confidence. ben whitty said this of jeff sessions if attorney general jeff sessions does not resign this morning it will reflect nothing more than a lack of self-respect on his part. how do you explain this disloyalty being shown to him by the president. >> there's a general sense among the people i talked to in trump's administration, this includes people in the justice dependent who say look we knew what we were getting into when we join it had administration. we knew what trump was like. they didn't think he would actively throe the attorney general under the bus and musing he wishes he could hire somebody else. that said, i think the general response is trump is trump and
he acts the way he does and he's a known quantity. what we have to do is figure out how to survive and move the ball inch by inch in the direction we want to while kind of dealing with this constant hurricane coming out of the west wing. >> we just had senator richard blummen that will on earlier who said he believes if bob mueller were fired the republicans might change from being privately uncomfortable to publically uncomfortable. do you agree with that? >> that's an interesting point. over the past week and a half or so i've been talking to republicans on the hill asking them, where is this investigation going? is there a point which you would break with the president? what would that look like? what would that take? overwhelming the response was we feel we're doing all we can to hold the president accountable. that is what i heard. the one thing i will say is all of them, every one i talked to brought up the mueller investigation as kind of a rhetorical shield.
they said, look we can do only do so much until the investigation is completed. we have to find out what comes out of that investigation. they all pointed to it as why they're not taking a more aggressive substance. i think if mueller is fired there are going to be a lot of unhappy people. only because it shifts pressure back to them. frankly, the republicans on capitol hill don't want this. they want the special prosecutor in charge of this. >> what has been the response inside the west wing? give us the state of play over there. >> this is a west wing that does not want drama. there was no strategy, i'm told, for the president to make this kind of declaration in the "new york times" interview. it's really just the president himself operating as his loan strategist, his loan advisor and spokesman. there was some triage today and last night inside the white house to deal with this
situation. if sessions was isolated would he stay on? not stay on? was the president calling for his resignation or just venting? you have people in the white house trying to figure out in real time what the president's statements really mean in terms of consequences and personnel. >> really quickly to stay with you on this, robert, is there anyone inside the white house who knows donald trump's thinking not just regarding what he'll do with mueller but what he'll do with sessions? is he taking any advice or bouncing ideas off people regarding sessions and mueller and now there are these statements about rod rosenstein and andrew mccabe? >> my reporting bears out the top people still remain, jared kushner, steve ban non, and they've known for months that the president has been unhappy with sessions' recusal. he's not had the same kind of rap port he's had with the president in the past. there's always the sense that the president could erupt at a moment's notice and decide to fire sessions or make a decision
to engage with mueller or get rid of mueller even. these are the questions that hover over the white housen if they haven't been acted upon. >> thank you very much for joining us. appreciate it. up next, donald trump's undisclosed meeting with vladimir putin what does it have in common with don junior's undisclosed meeting with a russian lawyer? you'll want to haefr what donald trump told the "new york times" about that.
we learned this week of a previously undisclosed second meeting between president trump and vladimir putin on the evening of july 7th at the g20 summit in germany. in trump's interview with the "new york times" he gay his version how it came to be. trump's wife was sitting beside putin and he walked over to talk to her and boom instant pull aside. he also offered what they discussed. >> she was sitting next to putin, and toward dessert i went to say hello to melania and i went to say hello to putin. really pleasant tris more than anything else. not a long conversation, it could be 15 minutes, you know. actually, it was very interesting, we talked about adoption. russia adoption. i always found that interesting because he ended that years ago, and i actually talked about russian adoption with him, which is interesting because that was part of a conversation that don had in the meeting that i think as i said most of the people --
when they call up and say we have information on your opponent i think most politicians -- i was with a lot of people and said who would wouldn't take a meeting like that. >> if you're talking about russian adoption with vladimir putin then what you're talking about is one thing, the magnitsky act, which means sanction. the magnitsky act was signed by president obama in 2012 after a russian lawyer who was investigating russian government corruption died in a russian prison. the law imposes sanctions against individuals in russian, certain government officials and business men who committed human rights violations. it's the worst sanctions because it's against wealthy businessmen who are beholden to vladimir putin.
vladimir putin hates the magnitsky act. it was putin's retaliation to the magnitsky act to ban american families from adopting russian children. >> how surprised were you to hear donald trump openly admit what he was talking to vladimir putin about was adoptions, which means magnitsky act? >> first and probably the most disturbing part is the gesture, i don't know where that came from or what that means. the second thing is you're absolutely right. the act goes back to what i believe was a dangle that the russians put in front of don junior so clearly it's a narrative they want to push. the russians reciprocated when he signed this law into effect by suspending adoptions. but again joy at the end of the
day why are we discussing offering anything to russia, whether it's the compound, easing of sanctions or adoptions? the russians clearly had an involvement in the election and our president should be taking a strong line not strolling into having pleasant tris for 15 minutes and then not disclosing it. >> from the russian point of view, the american president coming over and striking up a casual conversation about adoption, what does that get vladimir putin? >> look, even if it was at president trump said, a casual conversation, there was nothing of substance discussed although he did -- >> for an hour. >> right. exactly. even if there was nothing of substance, again this is something -- this is optics, this is basically saying to the russians you have leverage over me. the fact that he walked over, he initiated it, that is a clear
signal to the russians that he is interested in starting a dooig dialogue. at the very least if you're going to negotiate with the russians you ceded the high grounds by doing that. >> he said it was a red line if robert mueller was to go into his finances. explain how these lures work when russian agents want to influence an american, how is money used to do that? >> there's four pillars of recruitment in the spy world, money ideology, coercion and ego. those are the corner stones why someone would commit treason or spy for another country. money can be used -- it's a great door opener. that's why when you fill out the simple form 86, one of the things they look for is if you are in severe debt because that is viewed as something a foreign intelligence agency can build on.
money in many cases is the easiest way to recruit someone. we do it, the russians do it, it's the easiest way to recruit an asset. >> so it's not surprising that robert mueller is following the money. >> absolutely. and, joy, the craziest thing about this the investigation started with russia, but what if bob mueller discoveries another crime through innocent investigation here, whether it's money laundering, whatever it might be, is he going to turn a blind eye? absolutely not. he has to turn that back. so if there is other instances of criminality, not directly related to russia, that may come up. i think that's the likely course for charges and things like that. i have to say dealing with espionage and things with intelligence, it's so hard to prove these cases if you look at the history of it, that in many instances is a federal government basically keeps, you know, putting these cases out and eventually they have to plea bargain.
i think that's why it's going to focus on money and things like that. >> to quote ben whitty, tick, tick, tick. thank you very much. coming up, how does the president's six-month report card look. here's a hint, it doesn't include any legislation victory. plus some awkward into trump's latest policy push in thing one and thing two.
whuuuuuat?rtgage offer from the bank today. you never just get one offer. go to lendingtree.com and shop multiple loan offers for free! free? yeah. could save thousands. you should probably buy me dinner. no. go to lendingtree.com for a new home loan or refinance. receive up to five free offers and choose the loan that's right for you. our average customer could lower their monthly bills by over three hundred dollars. go to lendingtree.com right now.
>> it's beautiful. that's really nice. so these are wood? >> yes, sir. >> did you do the aluminum as well. >> we do. >> how are they doing? i read there were problems. >> they're doing well. >> even today after he was told it was not a test of manhood he tried to crush a glass vile and the vial held strong. but after days of product displays how well did made in america week convince businesses to manufacture in the u.s. and hire americans? maybe not so much especially when those businesses are owned by the trumps. that's thing two in 60 seconds. against styling damage... g ...with pantene 3 minute miracle daily conditioner. a super concentrated pro-v formula makes hair stronger*... ...in just 3 minutes. so it's smoother every day. because strong is beautiful.
d.c. to find many of the items were made in china, vietnam and pay rue. they revealed the extent to which ivanka trump's company relies exclusive on foreign factories. but when pressed this week, the white house would not say if trump's companies would adhere to the made in america week push. meanwhile we learned that one of trump's most cherished businesses won't follow the challenges. trump's mar a la goe club hired 70 workers. >> we will buy american and we will hire american.
nine years, the second most famous criminal trial of his year for armed robbery. >> i came here and spent nine years making no excuses about anything. i am sorry that things turned out the way they did. i had no intent to commit a crime. >> he could leave prison as early as october 1st. and donald trump who had simpson on his wedding guest list celebrated six months in the white house. so how has he spent that time? so far the 45th president has no major legislative accomplishments he's signed filler bills. his vow to repeal and replace obamacare has staled. he hasn't even started on two other major legislative priorities big tax cuts and infrastructure. not even during infrastructure week. he's reportedly had 54 meetings with leaders with awkwardness.
he's visited states to hold campaign rallies. trump has done one thing consistently he's spent 40 days at golf courses, he spent 25 days at his mar-a-lago $200,000 a year membership club in florida. he did deliver neil gor shish to the supreme court. so six months down, 42 to go, how do you think it's going? don't go away. trump spoke often on the campaign trail about how easy governing would be. it's not a quick fix.
trump spoke often on the campaign trail about how easy governing would be. but now six months into his presidency, well his tune is changing. his trump talking to reporters at the "new york times" about his faltering effort to reform health care. >> i am not in here six months and they'll say trump hasn't fulfilled his agenda. it's a very narrow path winding this way. you think you have
it and then you lose four on the other side because you gave. it is a brutal process. >> with me now are jason johnson
and karl lube dor f. and mr. lubes
dor f i'm going with you first. give us your assessment of donald trump's first six months in office. >> you mentioned all of the issues that made it seem like washington is grit gridlocked and notch much is going on. but there are things going on. you have the justice reversing its on voter rights, epa letting people dump sludge into streams. >> what sort of that set of things do you think is the most alarming. >> the way the president has demeaned the presidency and is trying to demean the government itself. >> you wrote this piece for the dallas news, do people in texas think that? there's a sense when you look at the polls. you look at donald trump from across the street from each other and have nothing in common and in the world of trump
supports this is all great. >> two worlds in texas also our paper which is traditional, endorsed hillary clinton. and the response to my column was interesting. i would expect to get a 50/50 response and it's been overwhelming favorable. the e-mails are running about 10-1 and virtually everything on twitter has been positive. the trump supporters have stopped reading the dallas news or are just holding their breath. >> jason, donald trump one of the things he has done is use social media in a unique way. talk about how many times tweet has tweeted in office and he's
fired off 1, 002 tweets at the time of writing that article, which is about 5.5 tweets a day. he tweets as much as i do, and i tweet a lot. do you think that has in a sense made this president an open book in a way that presidents maybe should be a little more or is it alarming to you. >> it depends on who you ask. i would pass up all of this tweeting if he actually say opened up press conferences again so we could see his spokesperson communicate. if you're a trump supporter he's talking to you constantly. if you're a critic, it's not that beneficial. what he tends to tweet about is not always of what's the greatest importance. it's people he's angry at, people he wants to complain about. ignore when white spremists murder people but attack muslims. not to mention his tweets make the lawyers crazy because he
keeps saying things that are going to investigate him. it may be the future of this presidency, but most presidents choose to speak to the american people. >> carl did mention the fact that trump has undermined the presidency. he denigrated it. do you think donald trump has done that, and has he made a permanent change to the presidency, for better or worse? >> i don't think anything is permanent yet. it's only been six months. if i were to grade him, i'd say a b plus on the economy, he hasn't managed to screw things up. i give him an a in gym, he spends a lot of time on the golf course. a d in african american studies. we don't have a full view of what the president's agenda. he does not have a health care plan, how he's going to improve infrastructure, if he keeps
having these rally weeks but no policy to go with them, we can say this is a failed presidency. because with the amount of power he has. >> presidency is four years, it takes a long time for things to develop. i've been here since 1963 i've seen democrats in control, the republicans in control, i was here for the nixon impeachment. so nothing is permanent. >> jason, one of the other things, of course, donald trump has done is move the country toward the putin view. how -- how does that change strike you? because a lot of the country doesn't mind that, doesn't care about it? >> the disturbing thing is the most recent poll is fewer republicans believe the russians
meddled in our election now than april. they seem to be rallying around him more. i think this is the single most problematic thing in this extremely problematic administration. anyone who loves the united states, i don't care if you're a republican or democrat, should be concerned about a president who does not care about the integrity of elections. should be concerned about a president who seems incapable of establishing good relationships with foreign leaders. a president who seems to be des desperate to be part of the cool kids with vladimir putin. i think that is the long term damage that's been done by this presidency. it took george bush eight years to do something this bad, donald trump's doing it in six months. >> we'll wait and see if red state voters care about it. we'll have to bring you back to talk about it. thank you both very much. that is all for all in this
evening. i'll be back here tomorrow. and you can catch me every weekend at 10:00 a.m. eastern. the breaking news we're covering another right now of blockbuster stories in the paper. president trump reportedly asks about pardons for his family, staff and seven. as the trump white house reportedly is playing defense by investigating the investigators, the lawyers mueller has hired. plus a report senior trump aides were stunned at the ag didn't resign today after the president admitted he regretted hiring him. and the questions being raised six months into this, does anyone in washington fear donald trump? ab"the 11th hour" gets under way. good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. it's another one of those nights mp day 182 of the trump administration and again tonight