tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 25, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
given the message, leave now while you can still walk out the door with a minimum of grace. thanks for being with us. all in starts right now. tonight on all in -- republicans advance health care in the senate. and the final fight begins. >> we're going to try to come up with something that is really spectacular. >> tonight the historic republican jam job. and what untold damage could it cause. >> i don't think that will work in the end and probably shouldn't. >> i'm very disappointed with the attorney general. >> donald trump starts the clock on his own attorney general. >> time will tell. time will tell. >> the latest on the president's human i will yagss of jeff sessions and what it means for the russia investigation. plus, what we learned from jared kushner in a second day on the hill.
did paul manafort cut a deal to get out of testifying many public? >> that's what he said. that's what i said. that's what our position is. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'll chris hayes. at this very moment there's a bill on the hill that would effectively kill obamacare. this after the republicans passed by a very thin margin. this was the scene this afternoon as that motion came to a vote. sergeant at arms will restore the chamber. despite those protests and
others, and approval numbers in the low teens, the motion passed by two men. vice president mike it's pegs who was forced to cast a tie breaking senate vote and senator john mccain, now battling brain cancer and only ten days out of surgery who trournld washington to a standing oh frags his colleagues and then on a deciding vote to move it to the floor and further trump's agenda. he gave a speech in which he described the legislative process that he himself called bankrupt. >> i voted for the motion to proceed to allow the debate to continue. i will not vote for this bill as it is today. we tried to do this by coming up with a proposal behind closed doors. then springing on it skeptical members, trying convince them that it is better than nothing.
that it is better than nothing? asking to us swallow our doubts and pass opposition. i don't think that will work in the end. and probably shouldn't. why don't we try the old way of legislating in the senate? the way our rules and customs encouraged us to act. if this process ends in failure which seems likely, then let's return to regular order. >> it has violated every single norm and unlike the senate consideration of the affordable care act eight years ago, which had 53 meetings, 44 hearings and public events association far nonof that has occurred in the handling of its own bill. senator mccain says it is a no. do republicans as whole ratify a process they themselves decry every chance they get? it will permanently alter
governance. it would ultimately reduce the number of americans insured by as much as 32 million. legislation that could very well cause a catastrophic implosion of every single individual health insurance market in all 50 states while raising premiums. are they prepared to own what comes after a yes vote? earlier -- do you think it is a good idea to restructure a sixth of the american economy without holding a single hearing? >> what we know is that's the only only available to us right now. we're proceeding from where we are today. there's a lot of us that would have thought earlier that hearings would have been appropriate but became a matter of timing. we have until the end of september in which to utilize this particular reconciliation
vehicle. so we can argue about whether it is the right move now. it is the position we find ourselves in. i don't have the power but you do. it is very strange to me to watch members of the senate complain. john mccain, i want to read a portion of. this he said it is coming one a proportion behind closed doors. and then trying jam it down throats of the senate. you can stop that. you can hold hearings. >> you have the power. you and your colleagues who complain about. this you have the power to stop it. but no one seems to want to stop it. >> we don't have it right now. we're stuck with the system in place now. then we know la the result would have been. it would have been a
continuation of an obamacare product that next year will go up between 20 and 40% in premiums. that's if the president agreed to continue the subsidies to the insurance company. we recognize that is the worst-case scenario. it is a failing system. what i've seen right now, i like the proposals that have come up so far. i like the idea of having 77,000 more south didakotaians. i like that they have a chance to get a tax advantage for the america they don't have today. >> everything we've seen of the various options, whether it is the house bill. would it mean tens of millions with less insurance. premiums going up and
deductibles going up. those are the major xlanls people have. >> that's incredible. >> that's true. >> no, sir. we've actually got the budget. the cbo report, that under the senate bill, without even the amendments we want to put on it, will reduce premiums by 30% by the year 2020. this is 122 pages in length. i've read it. you are correct that it suggests there will be a decrease in the number of people insured. question already know it was off. we already lost 5 million more people in the last fiscal year that didn't keep the insurance under obamacare. >> here's what is so maddening.
i feel like i'm at a sidewalk in manhattan playing three card monty. the bill keeps flashing up. it will reduce the number of people that have nshls. and deductibles will go up. that's not disputable. >> the deductibles won't go up but the premiums will go up. >> the president promised that he would not cut medicaid. he promised it multiple times. he distinguished himself by saying he wouldn't cut medicaid. can you say the bill we'll pass will not cut medicaid? >> i can tell you the bill under consideration, medicaid, would go up by 24% between now and the
year 2024. >> we're talking about a smaller increase than -- >> senator, if you're a baseball player who signs a three-year contract for $9 million and they come back and say here it is for $7 million, you've taken a $2 million pay cut. everyone understands that. >> if you already had it. if we don't do anything to control costs within the program, the program very well might not even be sustainable for the next generation. what we're trying to do is to actually make medicaid sustainable. not just for the rest of this generation but the generation to follow. >> all right. thank you. >> absolutely. >> lisa murkowski and susan collins, they were united on the motion the proceed. they are vowing to fight
both the bill and the process that
brought it about. >> we will not stand for the rooss that they went through to try to move
it along. we will fight and fight and fight and fight until this bill is dead. >> our job is to make sure all americans have health care. not throw 22 million people off the care they have. >> joining me now, sherrod brown of ohio. your colleague says it is the first step toward lower premiums, deductibles. i assume you don't think it is true. >> i don't know that anybody believes that. they said to pick the bill, either 18 or 22 or 30 million people lose insurance. premiums in ohio for a 60-year-old will go up over
1,000. the republican from nevada said there's nothing in this bill would bring costs down. this bill is a tax cut for the people who helped write it. the drug companies. wall street. it is a tax cut for them and an attack on medicaid. he said if we didn't have medica medicaid, we would be dead. >> part of what is remarkable about this process, mitch mcconnell keeps hiding what is happening and getting feel buy in on these incremental yeses. so far, it's working. but at a certain point, you guys in the senate will have to vote on an actual thing. >> well, that's exactly right. they seem to be avoiding that
date. which door? behind door number one? number two? number three? behind which door of the magic show? higher premiums and less coverage for ohioans or kentuckians. it is the same in everyone of his bills. it is tax cuts for the drug companies, the rich in our country and less coverage and higher premiums. >> so the question is what can democrats do right now? there's very much all eyes on the country are on this. it is life or death for a lot of people. you're in the minority. what can you do? >> we talk to people and listen to people. i've talked on literally three or four dozen hospital administrators. if they're small hospitals, they tell me they can very well close on these medicaid cuts. they're cutting back on services. they're laying off people.
people are lose go insurance. i talked to people, to children's hospital people. and they're all talking to their u.s. house members all over the country. that's why it has about 15% public support. >> go ahead. >> they're going to vote for it anyway. >> at this point, the public support. >> i guess my question is will they? >> well, i don't know. >> fundamentally you have final%. members of congress, all of whom have insurance paid for. health insurance paid for by taxpayers that are about to vote to take away insurance from millions of people who have 10 and 12 and $15 an hour jobs. people were jobs but don't have insurance like we do. i can't believe frarkly morally that thatle of my colleagues will stand up and vote for tax cuts and take insurance away from so many who work hard but
simply aren't lucky enough to have health insurance. >> i think the idea is you're in for a penny, in for a pound. is anyone going to have the wherewithal to back out? >> i don't know. i think they're listening to their biggest contributors. a republican senate colleague of mine said he was raising money for another senator and he called one person after another who was saying, i'll not going to help that senator unless he helps president trump repeal the affordable care act. the pressure of money is so great here. the public pressure is greater. democracy has worked so far. it has taken seven months to do this. when you and i talk in january, none of us thought this bill would be anything with you quickly moving through senate and the house and the affordable care act would be repealed. it is because of public pressure in yungdstown and toledo and dayton and all over my state that has made a lot of house and
senate members sit back and say i'll not so sure we should take insurance away. >> thank you. next the president continues publicly berating jeff sessions. apparently he has no plans of resigning. that everybody ignores me when i drive. it's fine. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. because i don't use my cellphone when i'm driving. even though my family does, and leaves me all alone. here's something else... i don't share it with mom. i don't. right, mom? i have a brand new putter you don't even know about! it's awesome. safe driving bonus checks, only from allstate. sometimes i leave the seat up on purpose. switching to allstate is worth it. [ light music playing ] you've wished upon it all year, and now it's finally here. the mercedes-benz summer event is back,
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we'll see what happens. time will tell. time will tell. >> the president of the united states continues to publicly high school i will great his attorney general. in addition to those comments, the president tweeted this morning, the attorney general jeff sessions has taken a very weak position on hillary clinton crimes. the president unloaded in the "wall street journal" saying he is very dispointed at jeff sessions and looking at firing him. sessions was the very first senator to support donald trump with his home state of alabama. trump is playing that down saying he was a senator from alabama. i won the state by massive numbers. he looks at 40,000 people and says what do i have to lose and he endorsed me. it is not a great loyal thing about the endorsement. sessions recused himself from the russian investigation after it was revealed he had met twice
with the russian ambassador while working trump's campaign. meetings that he did not disclose during the confirmation hearings even though he was asked about it under oath. now the mueller investigation appears to be threatening the presiden presidency. you have a story that just went out with some of the latest developments. >> this is just an extraordinary spectacle playing out in washington over the last couple days and especially the day when the president tweeted about his attorney general's weakness and went out in the rose garden and made disparaging remarks fast jeff sessions doesn't know already that he is disappointed in him. keeping him twisting in the wind. i was at the justice department all day today. no indication that the attorney general will resign.
in fact, quite the opposite. i asked him last week when the first disparaging comments were made by the president whether he would resign and he said no. i love this job. we are doing the work of the department. he is moving forward on his conservative agenda. and at the end of the day, the attorney general announced a crack down on so-called sanctuary cities. the justice department will withhold some funding from cities who don't cooperate with federal immigration officials. and tomorrow or the next day, sessions will announce leak investigations. exactly what trump was complaining that he hadn't been doing. >> jeff sessions is a hero, i would say, to the kind of breitbart publication that was published by steve bannon and works in the white house. it was a platform for the alt
right. they have rushed to sessions' defense in a spirited manner. >> i have to tell you, of all the cabinet heads, jeff sessions is the one who has done the most since he came in on february 9th until now, to push forward the conservative agenda of president trump. in terms of criminal justice, civil asset forfeit you are, down on immigration, he has been moving forward methodically undoing the policies of president obama and former attorney general eric holder and putting in his own. it is not really a surprise if breitbart or rush limbaugh would come to his defense. he represents the base. >> exactly. going back to the sort of model of the war on drugs, escalating sentences for nonviolent drug
offenders. your property can be taken even before you're convicted of a crime. he pursued all those agendas. what is remarkable. the president was very open about the fact that he was explicitly thinking about russia when he fires his fbi director after telling him to basically back off flynn. the president is tell graphic, he doesn't like jeff sessions because jeff sessions recused himself in such a fashion that he could not control gt direct or manipulate an investigation into the president. >> and what is so interesting here, he complain that's jeff sessions didn't tell him about this ahead of time. but jeff sessions wouldn't know ahead of time that there was this kind of russia investigation going on before he came in. and that he would have to recuse himself. career justice department lawyers came to him when he first got there and said, this would be a violation. you were on the campaign. it can't oversee this investigation. and seriously, all lawyers would agree that this would have been
the right thing to do and it was the right thing for him to recuse himself. and that is the thing the president is criticizing him about. >> we should know the part of that recusal, the nominee under oath said he didn't have any dealings with russians. he had to revise that statement. he met twice with kislyak. he then said he didn't talk about the campaign. there's reporting that intelligence intercepts indicate that kislyak said he did talk about the campaign with sessions. so sessions has his own in terms of the veracity on this matter. >> exactly. the "washington post" reported last week that according to intercepts and information from kislyak to his russian superiors, he said he had substantive conversations with jeff sessions. and jeff sessions has said publicly, and testified before the senate intelligence committee that he doesn't recall the conversations. it is a cloud hanging over him. and let me point out that this
issue about the recusal happen in march. i think he recused himself march 3. so since then, the president has been basically freezing him out. he's been disappointed, annoyed with jeff sessions all these months. we are just hearing about it but this has been an issue for the attorney general. >> what is so sfwrank this, the titanic levels of passive aggressiveness. the power hresident has the pow fire him. it seems that jeff sessions recognizes, the cold truth about the president is, he doesn't actually like firing people. >> correct. what we've been told is that people at the justice department close to jeff sessions made it clear to the white house that he is not resigning. and so it is a situation where he is kind of, if the president wants to fire him, he will have to fire him. when the president was asked today, are you going to fire him, he said, we'll see. time will tell. time will tell.
late breaking news. the former trump campaign chairman, paul manafort, narrowly avoided publicly testifying before the senate judiciary committee in the 2016 election. mafrt was making plans to speak in the future leaving the committee to drop the subpoena they had issued him earlier this week. earlier in the day, he and jared kushner spoke to congressional
investigators on that same issue. he spoke to the staff of the senate intelligence committee. kushner to members of the house intelligence committee where he was questioned nearly three hours. on monday he made a public statement denying collusion with any foreign governments during the campaign speaking with senate staffers. crucially, those conversations have not been made public even as questions are piling up. in homes of finding dirt on hillary clinton for the election in 2016. shifting explanations on who was preblt and what went. on president trump today called the investigation a witch hundred and said kushner did very well yesterday. why the people in trump's orbit are so eager to avoid public testimony is next.
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811 is available to any business our or homeownerfe. to make sure that you identify where your utilities are if you are gonna do any kind of excavation no matter how small or large before you dig, call 811. keep yourself safe. congressional investigators are pressing trump associates about russian interference, including any potential ties. three separate congress at committees. there's also of course the investigation by special counsel robert mueller even as speculation has occurred. the president could try to remove him. attorney general jeff sessions kushltly appears to be in peril, precisely because the president is upset he recused himself from the russian investigation making it harder for the president to
quash his efforts. so far it continues to peal back the players. bob, let me start with you. i'm kind of confused about the back and forth that's bhapg the subpoenas. congress can issue subpoenas to whoever they want. they have to take the fifth is my understanding. what is the substance whereby they cut these deals where they don't have to testify? >> congress is primarily interested in getting the information and depending on the witnesses, they are interested in doing so under terms that are most favorable to their clients. so there's often a negotiation. and it is prelim fairly obtain in the closed door settings without scrutiny. there's an advantage from the investigation's point of view. witnesses are not absorbing what
others are saying out loud in public and on television. >> i've heard other folks say the same thing. from a journalistic perspective, i like people to testify so we can report on it and talk about it. from an investigative perspective, it is better if they're not doing that. do you agree? >> there are two things. one, as a citizen, i like you as a journalist want to hear what's going on. i want to know what's happened so i know how to vote and what to do. so that's withone side of it. in terms of of an investigator, it doesn't matter one way or the other. you're getting the information that you need. if a witness is more comfortable in a secret setting, that's okay too. eventually, the congress may want to have this public so that the american people know. the prosecutor will always do it in a private setting, in grand ,
jury, where it will never be public. >> we're in a slow saturday night massacre in this respectful james comey was fired. he was fired in the president's own words while he was thinking about russia. that led to the appointment of special counsel. the president is now room nighting about removing the attorney general precisely because he recused himself. what would it precip indicate were the attorney general to be removed. >> at that point, it is not clear which scenario the president would pursue. either a new attorney general or an acting attorney general. conceivably he would pursue both at the same time. i think this comment is correct.
not necessarily only to terminate mr. sessions so he may have that in mind. but to say there are people who are answerable to him who will do more to control the investigation, to oversee the mueller investigation. the conflicts that have been on the team or to pay attention to some expansion in the mandate. >> i keep thinking, were i mueller in this investigation, you would have to be could not yourself fast every day might be your last. could not straukt dead man's switch. a time capsule that can be pre served in the event the thing that the president has signals, get you out of your job. that whatever findings you had would be preserved, right? >> yes. and i have two things to say about that. during watergate, we actually
faced this. >> we didn't know what president nixon would do. and we were worried that what happened would happen. the fbi seized our offices and barred us from taking any documents out. but we have done something. we have removed copies of every single important document and purr lined them in a way to our own homes where luckily we never had to face ethical dilemma of what we would have done if we had to disclose information. that would have been a horrible, ethical dilemma. it was something we felt we had to do to protect america at that point. so maybe he's thinking of that now to protect our government. >> i believe you were there.
at least the public house if i'm not mistaken. and perhaps a republican senate as well. >> this sort of thought experiment can get work out but it is useful in this circumstance. can you imagine if the president fired fbi director because he was investigating, if he mused about firing the attorney general, how a republican congress would have reacted to that? >> he can they would have reacted favorably. it is awfully hard to put ourselves into the thought experiment. no president that i remember, and i did live through watergate, went about, shall we say, the business of dealing with the department of justice and the way this president has. so beginning with the tenure, now drama with sessions that you mentioned previously.
all of them represent precedented behavior by the chief executive. coming up, why are republicans desperately trying to pass a bill that no one seems to want? the baffling strategy and what they talk about when they think no one is listening. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him.
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today collins was overheard saying this. >> did you see the one who challenged me to a duel? >> i know. trust me. do you know why he challenged you to a duel? because you could beat the [ bleep ] out of him. >> he's huge. he is so -- i don't mean to be unkind but he's so unattractive it is unbelievable. >> this is the, by now, infamous photo that she is referencing taken in 2009. the individual in the duck pajamas, that's the congressman currently threatening a duel. this afternoon collins said she received an apology and she offered her own apology. but collins didn't only talk about him on that hot mike. she talked about the trump administration. that's thing two in 60 seconds.
susan collins was caught on a hot mike today talking to jack reid calling the proposal incredibly irresponsible. then they sealed to discuss president trump, at one point referencing the president's speech at the commissioning of the uss ford. >> i don't say that lightly and as a kind of a goofy guy. >> and you know, this thing, if we don't get a budget deal -- >> i know. >> we're going to be paralyzed. >> i know. i don't even think he knows that there is a bca or anything. >> he was down on the ford commissioning saying i want them to pass my budget. >> afterwards, senator collins
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that applause was for managing mccain who flew 2300 miles two weeks after brain surgery who helped his colleagues move one step closer to passing health care. if it passes, mccain will help the man who once criticized his military service by saying, i like people who weren't captured. he will help him score a big legislative victory. just three republican votes could have stopped it. but only senator susan collins of maine and lisa murkowski of
alaska voted against it. there were others who heading into the vote racesed serious concerns about the senate's health care plan. heller realizing it would have a very significant and deleterious effect on the working poor in his state said last month, i cannot support legislation that takes away insurance from hundreds of thousands of nevadans. and another said i have serious concerns about the medicaid provisions. which leads to the question, why are they now moving toward something that could jeopardize health coverage for millions of americans and their constituents and that could cost these senators their careers? we'll try to answer that question, next. olay eyes
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if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar, activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. we ended up with 51 votes. 51 to whatever. i don't know what it is. yeah, 51-50. so we had two republicans that went against us, which is very sad, i think. it's very, very sad for them. but i'm very, very happy with the result. i believe now we will, over the next week or two, come up with a plan that's going to be really, really wonderful for the american people. >> joining me now is charlie sykes. the argument here, and you saw mitch mcconnell say it, it's never an affirmative argument for the law. we promised we'd do this.
something must be done. so this must be done. right? >> yes. >> at some level, that is -- i guess my question is, why are they doing it? is it because they said they would and now they have to do something? >> yes. i think the dynamic, there are principled objections here but the vote today was really the easy vote. everything gets harder going forward. mitch mcconnell had a good talking point on this which is if you voted against this procedural motion, then you were voting for the status quo. you did not want to do anything. so for a lot of the senators who are going to vote against the senate kill and house bill and the repeal bill, this was the easy vote to at least show that they want to do something, that they want to actually have some kind of a debate. i think we're doing a dance right now. chris, by the way, you've done a good job pointing out that the
obituaries have been -- repeal and replace is dead and now we're looking at this skinny bill, whatever the hell that is. >> so i think you read this differently. >> yeah. and this is how -- peter said today, mcconnell has a short of ingenious strategy. if you get people to take little "yes" steps and build up a chain of "yes"s and then you turn around to dean heller and say, i'm sorry, we already have these yeses. you've got to vote for the final thing. >> yeah. it's like if you've ever bought a used car or this is how it works. you add on 50 bucks here, you're paying 5, $600 more than you thought you were going to pay and that's what is happening. look, this was an easier vote than it will be in the future but the calculation is still the same. mitch mcconnell can still say after a bill comes out of
conference and say, hey, it's either this for you're basically voting for obamacare and folks have to remember, donald trump is still above 50% approval rating in 17 states around the country and when it comes to republicans, the reason they exist is to get tax cuts. if this doesn't happen, the permanent tax cuts that they want, everything else becomes a lot harder to do because the momentum is against the tide and people show that you can buck president trump and there's no problems. i mean, that's why he went to west virginia to talk to those boy scouts. because if capito votes against this -- >> it's dead. >> you're voting against the president. >> that point, charlie, strikes me as important. this would be seen as waterloo. the idea that doing anything would die if this thing dies is how they understand it and probably they understand it properly that way. >> yeah. but understand this.
to vote no today is to vote against this blank but you're going to have a series of votes on very specific pieces of policy and a lot of those senators will say, this is a crap sandwich. i'm not going to eat this. this is not on the menu for me. so i do think, by the way, the analysis that you and sam gave is something to pay attention to. understand that a lot of these senators, when they have to vote on the substance, when they have to vote on the cuts and on the subsidies, the slush funds, all of the games and -- this thing has really become a mess. not to mention the fact that the procedure right now, the procedure, the policy is almost literally indefensible. and i think you saw that from john mccain who voted to advance it and then said this is legislative malpractice. >> the procedure is literally indefensible in the sense that john cornyn -- mitch mcconnell, to his credit, doesn't pretend
to couch an insanctimony. >> this is the next step. it will remove all of these procedures and they go away and all of these processes. charlie is right in that they're going to vote against the next series of bills but at one point there is one thing -- >> that's the big question. >> and the other thing is -- >> you support obamacare. >> charlie, you're someone who -- conservative radio host and a never trumper but someone who is part of the group of conservatives who said we want to repeal the aca and we're on board that agenda. what is happening right now in the senate has nothing to do with donald trump. this is what we'd be getting if we had president marco rubio. this is the core of the republican party and their
agenda playing out right now in the senate. it's not some trump breaking of norms. >> that's true. but part of the problem is after seven years, what became obvious is that the republicans and conservatives did not have an alternative. they were talking about this. it was easy to vote against it when it was a straight repeal but they are unable to say this will actually solve the health care problem. now, maybe it will solve certain fiscal issues and lead to the tax cuts but will it actually improve health care? that's almost not even on the table and it would reflect a significant law in republican and conservative thinking over the last decade. >> that's what is so crazy, the mismatch between -- the thing is, a lot of the critiques are correct. there are lots of high
deductible plans that people don't like. that is true but the bill doesn't solve any of those. >> all of the critiques are from the left. >> it costs too much. right. >> it's the caricature that liberals have had for a long time and they don't care about health care. they don't. they are proving it now because they never came up with a plan. >> do you think, charlie, when it comes down to it, can you imagine anyone not knuckling under? you know, ultimately to sam's point, you're going to get a lot of things that you get to vote "no" on until you get to the thing where mitch says, this is it, dean. we need you on this. can you imagine them saying no? >> yes, i can. although, you know, a lot of people have knuckled over in the past and on the other hand, this
affects people's lives. this has real world consequences. this is not some esoteric budget bill. every single day that goes on, it makes it harder to pass the legislation and if you get to the skinny bill that they are talking about, people are going to say, how does that fix any problems? will we in fact own all of that. >> yes. >> we'll find out relatively shortly. >> that's a good phrase. if it goes to conference, there's a whole other chapter we'll get to as we watch this play out. charlie, sam, thank you. that's all for "all in" and rachel starts now. we are going to dive right in tonight. there's a lot going on.