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tv   Meet the Press  MSNBC  August 6, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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this sunday, another tumultuous week in washington. >> anthony wants anthony wants general kelly to be able to operate fully with a clean slate. >> congress gets nothing done. the russian investigation expands again, this time include as grand jury and president trump continues to call it a hoax. >> the russian story is fabricati fabrication, it is just an excuse for the greatest loss of history in american politics. >> it sounds so familiar.
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why do we keep on having weeks like this? this morning, broken politics. two parties searching for identities. >> the republicans. >> to be conservative you cannot be to embrace conspiracy theory or talk about alternative facts. >> i will talk to senator jeff blake of arizona, who took on his own republican party for not sticking on his principles. >> you have to say leadership is not strong enough or visionary enough. and up next, my interview with jerry brown and how the democrats managed to become a minority party. we agreed with washington is no not working. what can we do to fix it. joining me are andrea mitchell. dan balz, heather mcgee and d d david french, senior writer for
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the national review. welcome to sunday, a special edition of "meet the press." >> the longest running show in television's history celebrating its 70th year. this is a special edition of "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. the russian investigation heated up again. there was a shake up in the white house. congress could not get anything done. there is healthcare rewrite again. president trump's rating hits 33%. that was the lowest. >> the russia story is a total fabrication. it is just an excuse for the greatest lost of history of
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politics. it makes them feel better when they have nothing else to talk about. >> this is where we are. our poll if i caitics is broken. there are a lot of suspects and gerrymandering and growing cultural divides. today we'll focus on our broken political parties specifically. republicans have never seen more. more governors in multiple generations cannot get anything done. g demographics are moving relent lessly and yet ta cannot win their election. >> they are about persuading people to eventually agree with them >> jeff blake of arizona took after his own republican party and his own, it was we conservatives who pond obama's election stated that our number
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one priority was not advancing a conservative policy agenda but making obama a one-term president. could his words zridescribe dr democrats? we'll get to that. >> joining me now is senator, jeff blake. >> thank you for having me on. >> your book feels like a two prong to statackle. first on the character of the president and then more on the issue of what's happening to conservativeti conservatives here. we observe the unfolding drama along with the rest of the country passively. all but saying someone should do something without seeming to
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realizing that someone is us. a lot of conservatives warned the country that donald trump was not one. >> take a listen. >> donald trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservativism, it must be diagnosed and disguacar. >> i am not afraid of losing the election, i am afraid of losing your souls. >> it bothers me that someone come to hijack that cost. donald trump is not a conservative. i will go anywhere to speak anyone before i get a con-artist gets a hold of the republican party. >> why did conservatives listen to all who laid it out startling on the issue? >> well, i what i do in the book, he felt to put in a
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blueprint for conservatives. people may say, well, we have the house and senate and the white house and republicans do. not long ago. we have that. and not in 2006, we lost it. i don't think we are conservatives with all the spending and everything else that's going on. we cannot rest easy and we cannot say that popularism is a governing for philosophy because i don't believe it is. >> donald trump's character or this issue with conservativism that you are making tg argument and others have made to me before that it goes back in 20 years >> well, i started writing this book before donald trump became president. i am concerned of the direction
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that the party is going, protection is in particular and anti-immigra anti-immigrant. >> those kinds of things, i don't think it is going to propel republican in the future. we got to do something different. >> but i guess i go back, if donald trump, you thought he was a man of character but was still touting the same populists, pop pullistism. >> would you have written this book with the same tone? >> to be a sticonservative, it not just following principles and free trade but it is conservative in terms of compartment and behavior. i don't think we have seen that out of the white house.
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it is not foreign policy. a conservative is steady and measured and sober in terms of implementation of diplomacies and used of force. >> we got to change course in that regard. >> well, going in hien sight now. what should the conservative movement should have done than 2017? >> mit romney spoke out. endorsing anybody but, none f it seem to work. in hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently as a conservative leader? >> well, i am not denying that populism is not popular. that's why it is called populism. the duty of the conservatives is to tell the truth of
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constituents. and say hey, if we negotiated better trade deals then those jobs would be there. it is automation and productivity gain. it is much more complex. my concern is a this populism is a sugar high. i wish that we would have and be more fut full in terms of what we can or what we cannot do. >> the move. was split, right? >> you had some that's stuck to their guns on this, others you are calling zr willing accomplic accomplices. yes, we are proud of republicans. we were afraid to do that? >> right. >> is tp conservative movements
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still afraid. >> we are seeing more people ready to sand up. i wish that be we as a party, a lot of people did stand up but not enough. >> did you do enough snr. >> on that, i think i did and on other things as well. in our party, i wondered, you know, during rallies when the chance lock her up, we should not be the party for jail in your political components. >> anybody in the rally should ought to stand out and say that's inappropriate and we should not do that. fake news, stuff that's false and we have to stands up and say hey, that's not right. >> what if more leaders in your
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par party don't. >> i read this book and again, i go back, much of an indictment of the republican leadership as it is on donald trump. it is more than an indictment and i am curious did you think about leaving the party? >>. no, no, not at all. i am from arizona. so i am doing what i think my voters are expected of me. >> i think for example in 2006, when the party in particular given way to -- a couple of our colleen odegaa colleagues ended up in jail. a man draining the swamp was employed publicly. had we stood up last time, we would not have lost majority in the house. the senate may fear that we may
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do the sam thing again. >> at this point, you voted more with the president than even some in the senate have taken the president. >> is there a point where you will vote against your own id ideology. when does character trump for you? >> what we have done nor senate so far, the first six months, we are in the personnel business. all we are doing is approaching of cabinet picks. i was glad to support the supreme court justice. tax reform, he has good instinct. we'll probably be with him. >> trade, i expect to vote against the president.
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i will stand up just like i said when push was there and t. i will do the same here. it vote with the president when i believe he's right and against him if i think he's wrong. >> the tone you are taking here does not sound like the man who wrote this book. things are so broken in the conservative movement, we cannot stand it anymore. you sound like you are figuring out how to tiptoe around it. >> let me just say during the we have not voted much. having said that, some of the executive order, he's taken for example, the muslim ban. it became the travel pan. i don't think that's the direction to go. the immigration proposal, lets put forward last week.
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>> i think it is fine to move to a point system, we did that in the pipe san bill. you cannot cut immigration in half. >> and so i will stand up against that. and the behavior in the white house as well >> you are referring to our colleagues across the isle as losers or clowns is not the direction to go if we are going toing solve the problem in a conservative way. i will stand up every siem. and -- in terms of votes. we have not had that many to english ourselves either way. >>. thow should mitch mcconnell
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rond to yo rond respon sibl. i am not following mitch mcconnell again. >> i do think that we'll fix the figure thing we need to fix and deficit, what that is hob done with democrats and not republicans. >> that's what it is s so -- broken about our politic that is we cannot get together on the big things and as sfif extensives, we cannot have a conservative policies. if we continue these. i have toll leave it there. we'll discuss the lost middle in american politics. up next. senator jeff blake, republican from arizona. thank you for coming. >> i appreciate it. >> up next, we'll look at how the division within the gop are hand cupping and frustrating right now.
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>> later, we'll look at the double the democrats are showing. you will see some trends and statistics about how politics have changed in the last generation. >> first up is the red and 44 where the they involved. from 26-january 2016. at? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. you're in the match app. now tap on the new missed connections feature. it says i've crossed paths with kate six times this week. that is a lot of times.
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welcome a back. panel is here. dan welcome back. our panelists is here. our andrea is here and david french, our senior adviser for the national review. >> david, i want going to let you start here. i am struck by senator flake's of the two prong attack on the party. trump's character and
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conservative. >> lets keep this very real. we focus awfully a lot on politicians and what are politicians are doing. there is the people. i live in the middle of trump's country. >> what i can tell you is there is a market for what trump is selling. we cannot ignore that and we cannot just focus on washington. what we are over run right now is negative polarization. people are supporting republicans not because they love what republicans stand for but because they're so hostility to democrats. that's what it is about, it is about fighting and fighting. >> listen to mitch mcconnell. i think we have audio of this now. here is his explanation for the
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upside of not getting healthcare done. >> even if we came one point short of repealing obamacare. here is the person i talked about. hillary clinton. >> you saw that with president trump in gvirginia of the same r time. >> i don't think and we know this did not start ws donald trump. this condition that we are in. but, that's what's driving. if you look at the statistic on how people feel of their own party over the last 25 years. it is the same. >> when you look at the opposition of party, that body is gone. >> i am going to show you a married stats. >> the republican party problem,
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trump or the in fact they don't know what the deaf nation of activity activities that way. >> i think it is a conversation. they have this republican president who's not really a republican and conservative o. >> what jeff flake is he voted against the george w bush perez as a whole. he viewed himself as a rue activity activities. >> i think that's a good conversation to have for republicans as well as democrats. what you are seeing in your p zinc. >> you see the state, the stats on anger against lead colleges and among those who were college educated. it is extraordinary. if anger of all of us, the media as well and trump tapped into that. >> i appreciate that jeff flakes
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said "lock her up." those pride at the convention by michael flynn no less, the columnist respond was a -- >> heather, i want to put up this issue of the, 50% of the students believe that, it was a startling. i thought we all agree that college is good. >> we can have a debate on open idealology from university. but, when do we go all the way there? >> you have to follow the threat of this narrative. more folks are stretrending fol why it is illegal. >> others may say it is the more
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you study and america's history and the world, you understand how much we fall in short. >> the fault that we want to attend to work more. if you look at right. >> that's with where that's coming from. >> there is been a real dis distoration. >> you were just telling me the the story of someone being you being conservative issue? >> yes, because i was talking of the characters and politics and in an id laeg, law school students was telling me i was conservative in a power. >> that's okay. >> you are in a wraek. >> but, i will say this about the college and university
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piece. i am sure we'll get to this later. nobody made up the berkeley riots on attacks on charl. these things are actually happening and they do really cast a horticulture. >> it is happening and young people of first generation. are they are going college but they are getting so much that the party. and a distortion. . they are free speech. mandate to prermt these speakers. >> it is as heather points out. we gets focused. >> it feels. >> reporter: debate about. >> it would be one thing. if trump's character, that's complicates the debate for the ride. >> well, it does.
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although i think there is two problems. there is the debate that was occurring prodonald trump. which in a sense of ted cruz viewing the world searsing, sesnior. >> trump's behavior and time and operating style changes the while a lot of people think of all of those aspects. >> i think senator flake has done a great service to the debate >> i think what he's doing right now is extremely pornts. >> he said the republican party created donald trump. i think he's prescription what to do is cosmetic.
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basically, donald trump is not a threat to republicans. ong the congress could stop him. and then we falls a little bit of short. you are stit waiting with him. >> if y >> you critique him when he's right or wrong. you make the overall larger critique of something very broken in our political culture. he's a big part of that. >> you can vote for lower tax rates. but bont lose site of the bigger picture. >> donald trump is doing something of the american party of american politics that's really negative. >> while i promise, we'll get a minute on the other side. >> coming up though, the man who embodied in many of the changes of the last four governors.
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welcome back. welcome back, we have been diving into the fractures of the republican party. we'll look at those fractures that democrats are left. what about those in the middle? >> how did we get here? >> we are going to start by looking at the red\blue map after the 1998 midterms. the last congressional, election in the 20th century. it looks like a fairly split map if you will. you see there of the border state, upper south, barely competitive. look at the changes inless than 20 years when you move over to the 2016, congratulationessiona. the border is solid republicans. >> the more steves or democrats that was before.
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>> you can see the democrats are close stal and republicans are dominating. >> the piddle there from literally all across the country. >> lets look at two districts that tells you this kind of story >> let me explain. look in texas second congressional castle rock struck. >> jibe it a gem traffic dog won the seat for 17 points. >> republicans one last government by 25 points. the reverse is true. connecticut is 4th in 1998. they won that sit by a whopping 39 points. 2017, a democrat came to go to the same area, by 20 poinds. >> 60 points swim in less than
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two decades. >> the ideology diversities is gone in both party >> 132 members fell in what was described as a eyology center. >> those members of congress have voting records between some where. in 2013. that number was down four members of congress falling. this trend over the last twelve years have eliminated the party between the two parties. >> probably, only depends on where they live. when we come back, governor jerry brown of california and what's ailing the democratic party? rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief uses unique mistpro technology
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ism li like it or not like it, the democrats walked away from me. today i will tell you as west we virginian, i cannot help you anymore. >> and if they're against trump, it is not clear what the democrats are for. the culture left is fighting the economic left. democrats managed to bridge those divides. governor brown reinvented himself as a pragmatist. >> joining me now is the democratic governor of california, jerry brown. welcome back to "meet the press"
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>> thank you, i have been doing this for a long time. >> i know you have. this week, the ranks of governors shrank by jim justus. we can debate the authenticity and how long he was a democrat. the number starts. we are up to a record number of 34 for the republicans. how do the democrats get into that? >> certainly the republicans had something to do with it. s the barrage and drum beat of oppositions and the well financed, that's what affects it. the affordable care act were stig stigmatized and large and new. when lyndon johnson won over goldwater, people were writing.
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and i read it at the time. the republican party was gone and then it comes back and the democratic party comes back. the nature of our business is that -- it is swinging back to a non republican future. >> you just outlined that some of this can be sickle in nature. it was an interesting survey though. >> conducted on behalf of house democrats leadership in the survey noted that there is a lot of work to do and a lot of distrust if you will from these white working class voters who work democrats 20 years ago or 30 years ago and do not trust the democrats even on the economy now. how did that happen? >> it happens because the global economy is changing and america is losing manufacture jobs to foreign countries but no technology and automation and innovations and all of that.
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we are going through a real transition. if you look at democrat countries around the world whether it is south korea or brazil or europe. college education is going from free to now we have a trillion dollars of debt. home prices are reaching many people and jobs and mobility and insecurity and the rest of it. there is a global phenomenal. democrats have not been able to deliver in the face of the global trends. you have to say leadership have not been clever enough or strong enough or visionary enough. >> you mentioned about how you thought maybe the national democratic leadership have not been clever enough on the economic issue. >> or visionary enough. i don't want to make the point because it is not true. it is just a matter of clever. you know it takes values believing and right and wrong in
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a sense of what america is all about and it takes a certain vision, how the hell do we get out of it and some political skills. >> one of the reasons i want you to be on the show to talk about this specifically. you have seen so many of these moments inside the democratic party. some what argues that you symbolized them. >> i am going for play clips from two different announcements, one is for the president of 1992 and one for governor in 2010. take a listen >> our democracy has been a object of corruption and careerism and campaign consultants. democrats and republicans have failed their duties. >> republicans and democrats and oil companies and environmentalists, unions and business, we need to work together as californians first.
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>> you can look at that, the first one sounds like bernie sanders and the second jerry brown sounds like hillary clinton. what's your take on that? >> you are wrong, the first one is the banking of washington and the second is the solution and leaderships can work together across various interest groups. one is the problem and the other is the solution. >> there you have the rub. how do you tell the democratic base that says look, sometimes you got to compromise. the issue of abortion. we talk about cultures. you got some inside the democratic party and major leaders and others who think the democratic party should not support democrats who are not pro-choice on abortion. you have people like nancy
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pelosi and chuck schumer, you know, democrats have to be a 10. you got to learn how to compromise. >> i don't know who the democratic basis. it shifted. the segments of our party are highly differentiated and environmentalists and they're pro-choice people and religious fundamentals, they're there. it was not long ago that the neighbor of catholic democrats were opposed to abortions. the fact that some believes today of what most people believed 50 years ago, should not be the basis for the exclusion. and america, we are not ideology cal. we are not like a marxist party. we are not ideological.
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you cannot let hot button issues that work great one way or the other to be the guiding light for a national party that covers a very wide spectrum of belief. >> you don't believe there should be a litmus test, is there an issue or should be one for the democrats? >> it should be intelligence and has harry truman and roosevelt used to call it as a common man. running in san francisco is not like running in mobile, alabama. if you want to be of a diverse and i say ideologically, off party that rises above of the more particular issues to the
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generic. the general issue of making america great if i may take that word. >> going into the 2018 midterm, somebody that's close to you for a long time. nancy pelosi, i believe that was yo your maryland state chair back in day. >> that was a high mark of my political career. >> fair enough. >> her image and unpopularity was among the reasons why some democrats believe that they lost the georgia special election, that was high profile at the time. somehow democrats are saying, she's just too much, she's too much weight to carry in order to win back the house that republicans will be able to successfully use her against democrats >> what's your advance to nancy pelosi to deal with this? >> i also hold the candidates responsible.
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so if some candidates don't win, don't blame it on somebody else. she's dedicated and works very hard for this party. the answer is you got to get good candidates. as a candidate, we are running in a republican district and you are a democrat, you have to be extraordinary. you have to relate to constituents that we have here in san francisco. i think nancy pelosi has a lot of assets. is she perfect? >> we all have i mperfection. the answer is not to try to replace pelosi but to make sure the candidates can empathize and be apart of the district. >> your term runs out the end of next year. you don't sound like somebody that's done in politics? >> i have to say and collaborate with. i am going back to the ranch
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like cincinnati and rome and back to the plow. i will be on my plow, you can find me there. >> governor jerry brown, always as pleasure. >> we'll be back after the break with end game. we know our politics are broken. are there some realistic solutions? luliberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night. hold on dad... liberty did what? yeah, liberty mutual 24-hour roadside assistance helped him to fix his flat so he could get home safely. my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. don't worry - i know what a lug wrench is, dad. is this a lug wrench? maybe? you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™.
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back now with back now with end game. heather, you get to start on this one. this is your side of the umbrella here. this was interesting to watch jerry brown. this fight and i think you articulate this very well. the social justice woman party verses the economic wing and while i know you make an argument that you can do the two together. there is a split here. >> there is a split and it is driven by consultants and the society of micro target an audience rather than give a unified effort. the millennial generation and younger who are going to be 90 million strong in the election and more than anyone are feeling like they inherited and we, i am
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like a millennial grandmother here inheriting an economy, a multi candidates who say, i'm willing to take on the wealthy and powerful and also, i'm not willing to let the wealthy and powerful divide us from each other, so that they can have the spoils of our great nation. and that is actually, i think, the message that unites identity and class because we've seen frankly the right wing in one breath talk about what's wrong with the economy and scapegoat people of color and immigrants, and i think progressives really need to similarly understand how to weave those messages together. >> the or versus the and. >> uh-huh. >> democrats have struggled with figuring out an and message. >> i think what you have articulated is the ideal, i think a the real at this point is that the democrats are still a long way from there. i think democrats are still trying to figure out exactly who they want to appeal to, do they appeal to the rising generation?
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do they appeal to white working class? they haven't figured out an overall message. i mean, as governor brown said, you havele to rise above certain individual issues to have a larger vision. and i think that's what's been missing in the democrats. >> sorry, andrea, democrats unveiled something -- god, it feels like a lifetime ago, maybe ten days ago, that was saying you know what, we are from, you know, they actually schumer was able to get every democrat in the senate on an agenda, that's a relatively populist economic agenda. this better deal saying we're willing to take on corporations and create a better deal for workers with higher wages, better trade policies, more benefits, that was a huge step forward. i mean, i remember being in washington and trying to convince the democratic party to support big reforms on the affordability of college and it was -- the answer was we to want tweak interest rates. >> well it is though, they've responded to trump. this is their response to trump. >> but, i think that jerry brown, governor brown is on to something when he says the democrats have to be visionary,
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even in better deal, i don't think see anything that's visionary, it's a throwback to fdr and it goes so far back. we're not looking forward as a nation, republican or democratic parties to be more visionary, to more inclusive in a really profound way. he's talking about it as the leader of a very diverse state who has evolved so much since i first covered him in the '80s and '90s when he was first running for president and had a much narrower view. he said you're wrong, chuck, there is no difference. there really is dangerous. >> he's evolved from -- >> successful politicians do. >> and if i could jump in here, look, as a conservative, i live in tennessee now. i've lived in minnesota, cam bridge, massachusetts, and center city, philly. here's something that progressives have to work on. and it's one word, intolerance, at the grassroots of the
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progressive movement, there is an enormous a. intolerance for id logical difference. it's not just my 80% friend is my 80% friend, it's my 80% friend is my 1,000% enemy and monstrous human being. you see that an awful lot on college campuses to go back to what we talked about. you see this on the ground in progressive urban centers. there's a huge amount of intolerance, and people around the country see this, and reject it. they're repulsed by it. >> but one of the things that really strikes me when we talk about college campuses and millennials is the the sort of tuning out of politics, elected politics, and it gets back to what i think we really need to see in both parties, is focussing on legislatures and governors and thinking, and not being afraid of being purged from the rolls, and that is a very effective strategy by, you know, the extreme of the right wing right now is trying to claim that there was election fraud and taking this fake commission and making it into a real fear factor for people who won't tip their toes into elected politics.
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>> i want to pivot to we've been talking about the problems. let's try to get some solutions. there are some structural issues here. as we said at the top of the broadcast, many reasons for the broken current politics, you could stay started with gerrymandering to to help the party, then it became more precise as technology made it easier to draw the perfect political map, then legislation designed for representation actually you could say accelerated political segregation. why they help the gop take the house in '94 for the first anytime 40 years. and yet, all of those white voters meant they haven't learned how to talk to minority voters. then mccain fine gold was toezed to take money out of politics and it shifted the money to interest groups and political parties lost control of the party and the interest groups have more purging power. the point is dan balz, there isn't one answer people will say, it's better districts, it's this, it's that. we are in technology has messed us up. there's an entire structure of
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our politics that no longer persuades. all of it led to we do not try to persuade and win, we try to find people to agree with us in order to win an election. >> this is not a solution, but in one way or another, if you eliminated many of the committees like. democratic and republican campaign committees from the face of the map, you might begin to get a different dialogue in terms of campaign. so, the industry of politics over the time aye been in washington, which is a long time now, has grown and grown and grown, there was a full-time industry -- >> it's an industry. the fact that it's an industry. >> it's an industry designed to demonize and destroy the opposition as opposed to talking about what we were talking about which is providing a more visionary or more -- >> money is the root of that. mccain-finegold was part of it. >> it's not all money. >> industries are based on finance. >> here's what we're spiraling toward. i'm going to end with this,
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2040, this self-segregation that was started with gerrymandering, 70% of the country is going to be represented by 30 senators. >> astounding. >> if we continue to have a geographic split in this country that goes along party lines, that is a disaster in the making, is it not? >> yeah, i mean, i've categorized it this way. we're heading for a national divorce. not any time soon, but the trends are we're separating from each other and we don't like each other, and we don't watch what each other watches on television, increasingly we don't even watch the same sports except for the super bowl. i mean -- we're beginning to self-segregate, and then also, we're losing that sense of individual responsibility that says i'm in primary control of my life -- >> no, blame somebody else. >> yeah. well, it's the politicians, they're going to help us. >> heather, your response? >> what is a big solution that could change and fix our broken politics. i think we have to realize that democracy is a pretty radical idea that each generation has to recommit to. and that fundamentally the system of our democracy is not
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working, that is, you know, we need deep money in politics reforms and we need universal automatic voter registration. we need everybody in. and then that point of are we a demos? the people of a nation. are we a people who feel like we are united by a shared fate. and that has to do with the discourse. >> i will end it there, what a great discussion. you guys did your job on this. thank you. that's all we have for today. we'll be back next week, as you know, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." know, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." i make it easy to save $600 on car insurance, so being cool comes naturally. hmm. i can't decide if this place is swag or bling. it's pretzels. word. ladies, you know when you switch, you get my bomb-diggity discounts automatically.
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hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit this is humira at work. on this side of the world, we're waking up to the news that the state department officially notified the u.n. just hours ago that the u.s. is formally leaving the paris agreement. formally because under the terms of of the agreement, the u.s. can't depart until november 4th, 2020, the day after the next elections. so this is really just another chance to tell the president's supporters in the coal belt, the ones he addressed yesterday at a rally in west virginia, that he's delivering on his campaign promise. but it's far more important than that. this is about the direction our country is heading in. there are a couple of things that are important to know about the paris agreement that may have been lost in all the rhetoric.


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