tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC August 22, 2017 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
candidate rally in phoenix. the very month he first began running for president two years ago. he is back there tonight and we'll see if he revisits the greatest or most infamous hits. that's it for "the beat." "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. in unity there is trump? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the prince of division is pitching a message of unity. that's right, prurm addressed the country to outline his new afghanistan policy. it began with a call for the country to unify and catch this, to heal. >> when one part of america hurts, we all hurt.
when one citizen suffers an injustice, we all suffer together. loyalty to our nation demands loyalty to one another. when we open our hearts to patriotism, there's no room for prejudice no, place for bigotry and no tolerance for hate. we cannot remain a force for peace in the world if we are not at peace with each other. let us find the courage to heal our divisions within. but candidate trump stoked those divisions. he ran as a man who divided the conquered. >> why doesn't he show his birth certificate? i wish he would. i think it is a terrible thing that's hanging over him. when mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best. they're bringing crime, they're bringing drugs, they're rapists
and some i assume are good people. >> do you believe as punishment? >> yeah. >> donald j. trump is calling for a complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> had hillary clinton would rather provide a job to a refugee from overseas than to give that job to unemployed african-american youth in cities like detroit, who have become refugees in their own country. >> president trump has spent his first seven months in office as president, attacking as are liars and sleazes. just last week he called some of the people marching with nazis and white supremacists fine people. >> it would be nice to have democrat support. but really, they're obstruction. is. they have no ideas.
they have no thought process. all they want to do is obstruct government and obstruct, period. >> they're trying to treat you out of the leadership you want with a fake story that is demeaning to all of us. what the prosecutors should be looking at are hillary clinton's 33,000 deleted e-mails. >> i think there's blame on both sides. you look at both sides. i think there's blame on both sides. you had people that were very fine people. on both sides. >> tonight the president set to speak at a rally in phoenix. the site of some of his most raucous speeches. the atlantic white house correspondent, rosie gray, and for the "boston globe," i want to start with you. you've been on the show many times and i think you and i look
at this. is this dr. jekyll and mr. hyde? i would bet on mr. hyde. >> i would as well. we've seen two different types of mr. trumps. we've seen on teleprompter and off. we've sustain person he's talking about in many sides is saying things that he seems to believe. when we see him in that element where he can feel the interwax the crowd. that's when we've seen his most baseless statements. that's who i would expect. >> his bread and butter has been division. he's been at the edge of the wedge. right throughout on issues of race and immigration. every issue he's played brilliantly for his 40% of the population. when will he become mother teresa and st. francis? >> i don't think he's going to. the thing makes him different pr
other presidents is he hasn't shown a lot of willingness to reach out beyond his base. >> what's if rationale? why not grow? >> part of it is is his power drives from his base. part of why republicans are still wary about creating distance between themselves and him is he does have a lot of support in the republican base. >> why doesn't he grow? addition is better than subtraction. we all grew up, i did, you did too, reagan started with a core on the hard right. then he won the battle on the republican party. then he got big enough to bring in the democrats and the party vote it's doable if you come from the hard right. why doesn't he build? >> with a democratic congress for most of it is --
>> that's when we had very -- >> the truth is that a year ago many of us were making the kind of comment you made earlier. it seemed like strategy for electoral suicide to divide the country the way he did with his rhetoric. and yet he won. that has succeeded for him his entire career. both in business and now in politics. leaving aside the moral issue, there's a real question on a narrow political basis whether it is not the smart thing to continue to play to his base. it is who he knows and what he's good at. >> i interviewed him when he said women should be punished for abortion. they all pulled back. but his instinct was, i'm making
my stand with pro-choice women. he thought of that at the moment. what kind of a guy says i'll unite the country by punishing women for abortion. i'm not sure what punishment ned mind. >> his instinct is to lash out, a punitive attitude toward people. i think after charlottesville we saw him reversing, talking about many sides being to blal for the violence. they got him to walk it down. and then the trump tower conference, they got him to go back. >> his only tolerance has been toward the supremacists. >> maybe this is what he believes.
>> you mean hyde is the real guy. >> he is. this isn't a political plan. it is something folks haven't dealt with. >> certainly. >> the reporting on the escalating tension between him and mitch mcconnell. he has expressed uncertainty that mr. trump will be able to salvage his administration after a series of summer crises. the "times" goes on. in a series of tweets, he criticized mr. mcconnell publicly and then berated him in a phone call that quickly devolved into a profane shouting match. during the call, mr. trump
initiated from his new jersey golf club, the president accused mr. mcconnell. this very well written, very nobly written. this is amazing that they are yelling back and forth at each other. even i can be accused of having chutzpa. he was fighting with the president because the president had ticked him off. he doesn't seem to have unity at the top. >> if you follow trump's business career, things how he behaved with all of his business partners. it is why so many people in new york, in the real estate industry, refused to have anything to do with it.
is t and tei have to say as a never trump republican, they assumed he would be an empty vessel into which they could pour the sweet wine of whatever legislation they wanted to pass. it turns out the character of the president, he is decisive is that he has ideas of his own and he won't just go i know what the paul ryan republicans. i think what they're getting is richly deserved. >> are you to the right or left of trump? can you give me a position? is that too difficult to answer? are you to his right or left? i can't tell. >> i think i'm to his left. it's hard to say with trump
because he is such a malleable morphous figure. that i believe immigrants, that they country does better immigrants, this country does better with a more open society. nibble free trade and i believe in an engaged america. i think that puts me as a center moderate republican the in the spirit of ben sass or marco rubio. certainly not this guy. >> it sounds like eisenhower. mike pence backed up no, surprise, president trump's response to charlottesville. he did it today. he called the violence by both people and that offended the vice president. >> the president and i were very clear in the wake of the very tragic events in charlottesville, that we denounce bigotry and hatred and violence in all its forms.
>> the president specifically denounced white supremacists, neo-nazis and the kkk repeatedly. >> i know why he picked him vp. he gives him a churchy overlay. anyway, ambassador nicki haley was asked about the response to charlottesville. >> were you shocked, do you believe the president did that when he needed to last week in. >> well, aid personal conversation with the president and i will leave it at that. but i will tell you there is no room for hate. this guy needs to learn from and you then she was smart by saying i had a personal conversation with him. it was about this and i'll leave it at that. she didn't leave it at that. she said she had a personal
conversation with him. they're all separating themselves from him. >> in this era of neo-nazises, we don't know which conversation that was. there's the political us which here and the moral one. we have these people making choices and they're based on their own political futures. what is the moral calculus? >> let's talk about tonight. we've seen it. we know what it looks like. he is like a nightclub comic. lock her up! how can we do that after the oprah winfrey performance, we're all in it together? he won't do that tonight. >> we tend to see these two versions of the president. one, they get him to stick to the teleprompter speeches and
then he lets loose at the campaign rallies. are the more com bustible hulk thing. >> he does that. it will actually be tonight. we'll talk about it later. there's a crowd growing and it is not too pro trump. it looks like people who really don't like him. thank you so much. coming up, president trump does an about face in afghanistan. this is not doing well. didn't he run to sit behind that desk? what do military leaders think? we'll talk to them.
and will trump come out swinging? i keep thinking about glen campbell. the protests are already taking place and the phoenix mayor, by the way, has blasted the president in a scathing op ed piece today. the numbers are staggering stuff that's unbelievable and shouldn't be believed. over a thousand statements that are not true made by the president. this is "hardball" where the action is. is on. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc. and the versatile midsize lincoln mkx. or go where summer takes you in the exhilarating mkz. hurry in it's the final days of the lincoln summer invitation sales event. ending september 5th.
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are particularly interested in the funding and sources behind the dossier which contain salacious and so far unverified information with the president. the committee's chairman, senator chuck grassley, has not ruled out calling on simpson to testify before a public hearing at a later date. we'll be right back. yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ 40 million americans are waking up to a gillette shave. and at our factory in boston, 1,200 workers are starting their day building on over a hundred years of heritage, craftsmanship and innovation. today we're bringing you america's number one shave at lower prices every day.
we will no longer use american military might to construct democracies in foreign lands or try to rebuild other countries in our own image. those days are now over. >> that was president trump of course last night addressing the country about a new path forward in afghanistan. after months of internal debate, the president announced to the american public that he would reverse course on a campaign pledge to end what he called crazy wars. let's listen. >> he arrived at three
fundamental conclusions about america's core interests in afghanistan. first, our nation must seek an honorable and enduring outcome worthy of the tremendous sacrifices that have been made. second, the consequences of a ram i had exit are both predictable and unacceptable. third and finally i concluded that the threats in afghanistan is the broader region are immen immense. >> president trump's modest increase in troop levels is an incremental shift that will likely not change the current course. he refused to outline specific details, nor would he outline what would it cost americans. >> i've said how many times it is for the united states to
announce in advance the date when we intend to begin or end military options. we will not talk about numbers of troops. >> the presses was loektd a pretty clear promise that the country would not stop these wars. he settled on a strategy that keeps him from losing. lieutenant general dan bolger, why are we lost. thank you both. what is the president's goal in afghanistan as you heard it last night? >> his stated goal is to win a victory. that won't happen given the name of the war. it is a protracted war, aer watch attrition. oftentimes they're generational.
nothing new. an incremental increase in troop levels or a large increase in troop levels, it doesn't matter, this war will creep along perhaps for generations. >> what did the president mean by victory? >> i wish i could tell you. wlatss the general said is correct. it is a long term effort and it is quite likely that none of us will be alive at the end of it based on the open ended statements last night. >> i did hear him say the goal is to prevent the taliban from taking over. that seems to be the. but we won't annihilate the taliban if it is even humans
possible. how would reduce it, i'm trying to think of something where the big guy is winning. maybe to the level of korea where we have a hot armistice that never really cools down. will we ever find a 38th parallel, some line that's defendable. can we ever get there? >> i think you could. but that line in afghanistan is actually demographic. the pashtun people are the majority of taliban. and we might end up drawing a line through their land at some point. as the president correctly said, it is very difficult to could not eve the taliban-the conceive the taliban coming to negotiation. why should they? they think they're winning. >> it seems the me we've beaten the countries we thought were
bad. we thought they were evil. and the japanese government was brutal. we said they're teefl. we're going to kill them. i don't think that's the way if he fight was the mujahideen. now trump says they're terrorists. will that make them, to an american, an evil worth losing men over? and women? >> i don't think so. if there's a lingering thing, it's 9/11. it is not that the taliban are our enemies. it is that they harbor the terrorists who brought down the
twin towers. another thing is the long shadow that 9/11 has on our society. we have kids going to college next year who were born 9/11. and it is very, very difficult to erase that stain. that's why i think they're so tolerant about casualties about, protracted war. it is not that they want to make afghanistan free but they want to return the terrorism. >> let's watch this switch here. >> my origin stinct was to pull out and historically, i like following my instincts. but all my life i've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk. >> i think about the general in the scary situation, he may be
isolated. he doesn't know what's coming. he is there for his country. and he's committed to that fight. does this word about the politics affect the ability of that soldier to do what he has to do? >> the home front affects every army. we're a people's army. we come from every county and town in the country. when you're at work and when you're out in the field or afghanistan or a place like that, your focus is on doing your job and taking care of the men and women next to you. but certainly, you do always pay attention to what's going on back home. the american people have clearly soured on the war and i don't know if it is the long shadow of 9/11 or whatever. but there is no doubt that they back the men and women who fight for the country. they look out for us. and that backing has been strong
throughout. to some degree we turned down the people who fought there. and they were doing the task they were sent to you. >> i'm reading the book, the horror they went through. you're sitting next to a guy and all of a sudden, he has both legs gone, he's crying. horrible. thank you for coming. on up next, a live report from phoenix when the president is set to hold a campaign style rally. a rally. do you think that will be loving our neighbor? there are already massive protests taking shape. you see them now lye ahead of the rally. when i first started working with capital one, my dad called them up and asked for "the jennifer garner card" which is such a dad thing to do. after he gave his name the woman from capital one said
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look at the protesters ahead of the rally. it is spegtd to revisit a topic he repeatedly campaigned on. the issue of immigration. let's listen to that. >> i didn't think that the immigration thing would take on a life like it has. to make our country great again, we have to create borders. otherwise we don't have a country. >> they want to see people that love our country come into our country.
not people that hate us. >> we take anybody. come on in, anybody. just come on in. not anymore. we will build a great wall along the southern border. and mexico will pay for the wall. we will end illegal immigration, deport every last criminal alien, and save american lives. and we'll do it quickly. >> in the wake of trump's response, the phoenix mayor greg stanton asked the president to delay the trip. he wrote, america is hurting largely because trump has doused racial tensions with gasoline. with his planned visit to phoenix on tuesday, i fear the president may be looking to light a match. while thousands are expected to protest, it is live pictures of the president's appearance which is coming up at 10:00 eastern. three of the state's he republicans, jeff flake and john
mccain as well as doug deucey are all skipping the event. they don't want to be near this trouble. you're the reporter on site. a lot of noise there. cut through flois and tethe noi us how it is shaping up. will there be violence? >> i don't know with violence but there are huge crowds, a lot of protesting and shouting outside. a lot of anti-kkk anti-fascist slogan earring going on. on the other hand, you have the gop challenger to jeff flake who got some support from donald trump last week with a tweet. i think they're hoping they would get some kinds words from the stage as well. >> i remember during campaign, remember when he went to chicago, to an urban area, it seemed to me what he was could go was trying to stick a fight.
get protest out out there and it helped him politically. that's what he was up. to do you think he picked phoenix because he influence would be opposition in the streets? >> certainly the talk about possibly pardoning joe arpaio certainly did stoke emotions. probably the announcement faye there wouldn't be a pardon announced. sarah huckabee said that it was a responsible decision to maybe ease tensions. i think if you put him on the stage, it might really erupt. >> i've rikd him over the years. he's been very careful about handling the issue. how did he get away with being elected with a republican constituency at the same time, not stoking trouble.
not making it worse. there's a wing of the party that can't stand mccain or flake. and that's actually donald trump's base here in arizona. so they mesh together well. mccain and flake, they talk up the security aspects during the primary and during the general election. come out for more comprehensive immigration reform with benefits for the millions of immigrants who have jobs and are raising families. >> thank you. i've seen that before. you're a little different in the primaries than the general and that's how you survive. thank you. up next, trump versus the facts. the numbers are in and they don't look good for the
president. this is all factual. he is making five false claims per day. do his party care? helping keep shoppers safe. this is a financial transaction secure from hacks and threats others can't see. this is a skyscraper whose elevators use iot data and ai to help thousands get to work safely and efficiently. this is not the cloud you know. this is the ibm cloud. the ibm cloud is the cloud for enterprise. yours.
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it's me and it's you. don't stop now, it's easy to add to the routine. join energy upgrade california and do your thing. when i make a statement, i like to be correct. i want the facts. >> do you believe that? i want the facts. that was president trump last week claiming that he waits for the facts before he makes a statement. but according to the "washington post," president trump's list of false and misleading claims has already topped 1,000 since inaugural day. the post fact checkers note at the present current pace, he averages nearly five claims a day. many are repeats of xlams have been deburninged. we also include statement that's
are unacknowledged flip-flops from previous held positions. he takes credit for business decisions that happened before he took the oath of office or had even been elected. here some of the sometimes he used alternative facts. >> here's a picture of the crowd. now, the audience was the biggest ever. >> i guess it was biggest electoral college win since ronald reagan. >> when you look at the people that are registered, dead, illegal in two states, in some cases, maybe three states, we have a lot to look into. >> we're spending a lot of money on the iner cities. we're fixing the inner cities. doing far more than anybody has ever done with respect to the inner cities. you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent. they're investigating something that never happened. there was no collusion between us and russia. in fact, the opposite. russia spent a lot of money on
fighting me. >> do you like the caliope music? heidi, senior politics reporter, and gene robinson, i should have said, save your political analyst references. it's all true. >> you've been editor of your paper for many times. does he belong on the style page? >> i don't know. look. i never dealt with a politician like this. we've all dealt with politicians who stretch truth, they put everything in the best possible light. who occasionally tell something that flat out isn't true. i don't know if we've ever dealt with a political figure who as he breaths, he lies. >> and it is all checkable
today. in the old days it was huey or earl among would say in one part, talk about my baptist grandmother. then it would be my catholic grandmother and nobody caught it because we didn't of the internet west didn't have fact checks. today all facts are checkable immediately. >> they are. >> that pace, five a day, is not checkable. a lot of things go by and they don't get checked. the reason why is it is just too much. we as the referees for the american people need to prioritize what we go to town on. we have to go to town on those things can have the most potential to impact public policy. like the claim about fraudulent voters. that has led to an entire government commission that will come up with recommendations that may be based on a wholly false premise with millions of illegal people voting. for example, the bogus crime statistics.
that could have an effect on justice department policy. so we as the ref to zero in on those things which threaten to change our public discourse and policy. >> i think that's different. i think the creation of the creations, the bogus realities, it is not just lying about your weight or your age. it is creating this notion. i'm sorry. o.j. saying i'm going after the real killer. i mean there is a real killer out there. whatever you think of the police department. but this idea of creating a bogus reality like the millions who voted illegally. so that he tells republicans, we didn't win the popular vote? oh, yes, we did. because there are millions of illegal voters. and that feeds their self-delusion. >> this alternate reality just builds on itself. you have the president putting out blat an false hoods every day but you have a media organization, breitbart and others on the right that are fueling this and creating this alternate universe in which many
trump supporters live. so passionate supporters of the president don't believe he's lying because they're dealing with alternative facts. >> can you tell? when he's making it up? >> whatever he says, you sort of question it. literally, whatever he says. you want to look it up. but phil is right about him creating this alternate reality. i do a live internet chat. somebody wrote in with a question that was just totally based on lie after lie. just saying things about things that aren't true. statistics under the obama administration. so he's created a lot more jobs than obama.
that's not true. job creation slowed. >> does anyone believe he will build a big 16, 20-foot law without ladders? does anyone believe the president of mexico can survive for one second if he agreed to pay for the thing? and yet people say build a wall. even if you're totally right wing, alt right, whatever, do you believe he will take a wall? >> don't take him literally. spnlt what his staff said? >> it's not even. so about trump. bits the american people. when you look at the exit polling from when he was elected, people elected him knowing, or believing that he was dishonor. those were the numbers. it was something like 60%. that's why we sit here scratching our heads and fuming. and wondering why people aren't more upset. >> i think most people know there won't be a 30-foot wall
along the border. they think he'll do something. but just the misstate of basic facts. i keep saying, we need a common chronicle of events and a common encyclopedia of events. we don't have that now. >> it started with that crazy thing about size and the hands and the crowd size. everything is size. sean spicer will 97 be forgiven for those idiotic statements towed make. you get out there and you tell them i had the biggest crowd in history. and did he. >> it is and not the just the misstatements that trump is making but his staff is making them too. >> let's revisit something we talked about. the escalating tensions, mr.
mcconnell has expressed uncertainty that mr. trump will be able to sal vandal his administration after a series of summer crises. the fact the leader of your party thinks you may not be able to salvage a presidency at this point in. unsalvageable. >> i think the leader of the republican party in the senate would have a better opinion of the president would stop sniping at him. and haranging him and accordingly by telephone, according to the story. for not making sense of an incoherent policy from the white house. so you can understand why mitch mcconnell would be terribly frustrated and pessimistic. >> all i want you to do is figure out how to win this war and get out. and they go, well, victory won't be like that. >> i think we're at a point where these members, including mcconnell, are realizing the
premise they could use trump, even though he was kind of anathema to everything they stand for, as a vehicle to get everything accomplished, that is now vanishing. he is not only not a vehicle but he is to you, people like jeff flake. it is becoming a bit of a civil war. if he can bounce the mooch, bannon, i don't think he is a republican. i think -- >> mitch mcconnell doesn't think so either. >> up next, these people tell me something i don't know.
visit booking.com. booking.yeah! president trump's son-in-law jared kushner quietly departed for the middle east. they plan to hold separate meetings thursday with benjamin netanyahu and palestinian president mahmoud abbas. so far the headlines do not look promising. the prime minister said he does not understand trump's peace plan and the chaos in the administration is not helping the process. ♪
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tell me something i don't know. >> so the afghanistan decision. president trump deciding to send more troops into afghanistan. and steve bannon, the chief strategist at the white house had been resisting sending more troops telling the president that his grassroots supporters would rebel. once bannon left, it was attorney general jeff sessions who stepped in to the void to make the case in the final days. >> i like that he says he'll keep secret the increment of the new troops. when he'll have to tell them. they'll all know how many troops we're bringing in. >> what would a democratic wave in 2018 look like? it would look line democrats winning a number of the grikts went to president obama. i went to one and i found a pattern in terms of the democrats now raising three
hands. they're the 2018 version of the tea party. they're all outside of the people who have not served in state legislative or congress before. >> will nancy pelosi be speaker again? >> i asked this person that and he would not commit to voting for her. >> very interesting if the democrats got their own tea party. the president said afghanistan and pakistan were the two most problematic and dangerous countries to us in terms of terrorism. so neither one is on the list of countries affected by the travel ban. >> explain. >> they're not. well, mr. president, explain. there's something of a disconnect in the policy process. >> i always wondered about 9/11, that it could have been put together mostly by guys in germany. the thugs they brought on, the 15 thugs who may not have known they were all going to die. they were told what to do. the brains behind it.
the four pilots. they were guys in germany. this didn't steam need geography to be planned. wasn't like we say terrorists with climbing ropes and everything. thank you. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. copd makes it hard to breathe. so to breathe better, i go with anoro. ♪go your own way copd tries to say, "go this way." i say, "i'll go my own way" with anoro.
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he can speak nobly even as he drives a knife into a guy's bike. he can talk about his love of peace even while he plots war. what were you thinking last night when you heard this? when one part of america hurts, we all hurt. when one citizen suffers an injustice, we all suffer together. loyalty to our nation demands loyalty to one another. when we open our hearts to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice no, place for bigotry and no tolerance for hate. finally, we cannot remain a force for peace in the world if we're not at peace with each other. if it all sounds vaguely, weirdly familiar, it is not because these words were spoken by a mother teresa or a dr. phil. what they smack is the saccharine brohmized of a richard nixon. trying to sound like uniter, a sincere human being.
anthony scaramucci said when he was bounced from the white house, he thought he would have lasted longer than a carton of milk. it turns out his sell by date came sooner. but trump's commitment to people like the mooch sealed like centuries compared to the miniscule commitment to the words he speaks. we will see him in phoenix and see if his words survive even the coming of the arizona sundown. that's "hardball." "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> trump are takes his road show to phoenix. tonight the protests in the streets and why the president's war with his own party just got much, much