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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 4, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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campuses, in part because many students feel that going to an elite undergrad institution is not going to improve their chances in the economy. >> eli stoeblckoles, heidi przybyla, and jason johnson. tonight on "all in." >> i got the white supremacist, the neo-nazi, i got them all. >> what the president did this summer. >> kkk, we got kkk. i got 'em all. >> response to charlottesville. >> very fine people on both sides. >> the response in north korea. >> they will be met with fire and fury the response to ht hurricane. >> the intensifying russia investigation. >> my son is a wonderful young man. he took a meeting with a russian lawyer. >> the fights with his own disa.
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>> where america stands after its first summer of trump. >> i don't think anyone is interested in having a shutdown. >> no chance, we won't raise the debt ceiling. no chance. networ america's not going to default. >> we have to close down our government, we're building that wall. "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. this is normally the time of year, right after the labor day weekend, when congress returns to washington, after a slow and sleepy recess, and the news cycle finally starts to crank back up again. but this year, with this president, hardly a summer day passed by without some big bombshell story. huge developments in the russia investigation, a near crisis with north korea, the infamous two sides response to the violence in charlottesville, steve bannon was fired, transgender troops were banned, sort of, and sheriff joe arpaio was pardoned. and that was just in august. most presidents head into their first september hoping the wind at their back can help drive a
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busy legislative agenda. this president ends the summer setting records with his dismally low approval ratings, including the lowest park ever for a president in his first year. by the end of last month, the president was at 34%. to help with the summer of trump in perspective, i'm joined by harry enton, senior political writer for 358, tara dowdel, and jess mcintosh, a former adviser for the clinton campaign and current executive editor of share blue. good to have you here. let's start with a snapshot of where the president is political my. maybe i'll start with you, because you do a lot of analysis of polling. how would you characterize where the president is politically? >> lowest i've ever seen. those numbers tell the story, don't they? look at the president's disapproval rating. already in the high 50s. his net approval rating, more than 20 percentage points of the country disapprove than approve of the president. we've simply never seen that. i guess if we had polling back with warren g. harding we would,
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but the fact is, this is the most unpopular president ever through this point in his first term. and more than that, his numbers keep getting lower. >> explain that. i thought -- there's one way of looking at the polling that looks relatively stable. and anytime there's a real particularly bad poll, people who particularly don't like the president and want to see him do poorly, trumpet that poll. when you aggregate it a altogether, what do you see? >> we're seeing a steady climb downward. the president started in the mid-40s and now is down to the mid-30s. every single month, he's losing about a point. sometimes it goes up a little and a little bit down. but the steady, if you run a simple regression, you see it's a slope downward. >> do people believe that? >> absolutely. >> you believe the polling? >> i absolutely believe the polling. i think we can't see the kind of -- remember what summer news used to be like? there was no freakout over sharks. there was like no massive murder trial that we all covered. like, nobody got obsessed with anything, because they were all
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watching the president. >> there was literally one day of an eclipse -- >> that was the one slowdown. >> and i remembered watching the eclipse news cycle play out, i was like, this is what news cycles used to be like. >> but instead, we're all tuned into this. and of course, a small piece of his base is eroding every time he does something massively unpopular, really racist, really bigoted. every time he fails to enact some piece of his agenda that his base was excited about doing. he hasn't done anything that they wanted and he's done so much that the rest of the condition didn't want. i think the polls are more important than usual, because america has this -- we need to know that there are more people who don't like this than there are. >> but i want to ask you this as someone who worked in the clinton campaign. because i feel like -- i'm not saying this is not true. the polling is what the polling is. he's clearly very unpopular. he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes. so it's not surprising in some ways, right? but there was also this sense that people said very similar things about him during the
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campaign, which he ended up winning, right? >> yes. >> that his approval ratings are in the 30s, he's incredibly unpopular, ya dada yada. are you haunted in some part of your mind? like we maybe got it wrong that time. >> i am haunted regularly, always. but, it was a hypothetical then and now it's real. >> so you're saying that's the difference. the difference is between, i'm going to vote for this person and what i'm going to do is vote and then we'll see what he's like to this is what he's like. >> how many people voted for him because they thought he would drain the swamp. how many people voted for him because they thought he would keep out muslims and build a wall. that's what they thought they would do, but he's not doing that. >> and it's negative polarization. that is still with us. people are motivated by the people they don't want to see in the office. so the support that he retains, i think, when he has those flashpoint moments, that's when he retains it. that's when the media is ganging
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up on him and he can just say, it's all fake news and we're against them. but if we wipe away all the crazy headlines and the fog and the nonstop news soik here. what we're seeing with the trump administration from the get-go is the same thing that republicans and libertarians criticized obama at in his second term, which is, it's just a pen and a phone. there isn't a lot of legislation happening. >> which is usually not what's happening in your first hundred days, first year. particularly when you have congress, that's when you do it. >> and he has spent a lot of his capital burning his capital. he's going after jeff flake and dean heller. he's trying to primary people and reshape the republican party to be more trumpy. and this is making a lot of republican senators really unhappy. that's not going to get tax reform done. >> do you think that matters? so, there's two issues, right? there's the general sense of how popular he is. and then there's how that connects to whi s ts to what ki influence, power, and capital he has to spend on capitol hill. how do you think those two relate at this moment? >> i'll play devil's advocate a little bit here. i think with respect to trump's
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base, while maybe there are portions of it that have evoed roded, there's a lot of talk about sort of the working class people that voted for him. but a lot of very wealthy people in this country, a lot of educated people this this country voted for donald trump. >> the best one-word summary of who voted for donald trump is republicans. republicans voted for donald trump. like, if you're trying to figure out -- republicans voted for donald trump by overwhelming margins. particularly a slice of people that didn't like him in the primary and maybe aren't crazy about him now. >> so i think those people are eroding, but with respect to his core base, and i call them fans, he has a cult-like following in this cub. and he is putting on the greatest reality show he's ever put on. this is what he's doing. he's entertaining these people, they like the fact that some people actually like the fact that nothing's happening. because they wanted him to quote/unquote blow up washington. and that's exactly what he's doing. so some people have sort of bought into that rationale and they use it to justify
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continuing to support him. so i think that we shouldn't underestimate the strength of who he's performing for. he's performing for those fans and those fans still support him. >> i think there's an important distinction there. there are some people who support trump or support him in spite of the antics and the personality. and there are some people who support him primarily because of that. and it's the latter category that i think are the fans and the base that are the 30% or what. it's the more marginal voters who are the people that are where a lot of the political leverage is, particularly when republicans on capitol hill are thinking about it. >> i'll say two things. number one, trump's approval rating among republicans in the latest gallup weekly poll was below 80%. that's amazing. you would expect your republican base to be overwhelmingly support you, not just four out of five. the other thing i pointed out, the pew research center had a great question. how do you approve of the president's not just his performance, but his attitude and conduct in office? and only 14% of americans said
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they liked it. in fact, the plurality of republicans said they had mixed feelings. they do not necessarily like this show. there are some people who certainly do, who want to burn everything to the ground. but most people who voted for donald trump were hoping that he would actually do something. and if you look at the legislation passed so far, i think the opinion is he really hasn't. >> and that brings us to whether he has any sway on capitol hill. we saw he really didn't during the health care fight. he did a little bit in the house, i think they're a little more responsive to him, those are gerrymandered districts. those are districts where a primary from a trump-backed perp could spell the end of your political career. but in the senate, not only does he not have any sway, he doesn't appear to have the tools or comprehension necessary to make a policy argument to people, which actually do matter. >> he didn't try. like, he never tried to have policy sway. every time he gives a speech or a rally, it's about himself. he's never -- i mean, he tried to give a tax speech just last week and it was about himself and eventually an attack on claire mccaskill. i did not walk away from that speech knowing what his tax plan
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was going to be. and i think that the republicans on the hill had to have been really disappointed in that. he's just not -- he's not able to and he's not willing to learn how. >> but let's separate the legislative trump agenda and what tara is saying. the guy has control over the kpes executive branch of government. and he's doing things or trying to do things, some of which i like and the rest of you may not, in terms of reforms at the food and drug administration. he's got people who are working on regulatory reform in a lot of different places -- >> you were right the first time. i saw you catch yourself. >> but, so, that is happening apace and some of the only legislation that's opinion passed by kopg ththe congressio review act for the second and 14th times in history. that's different and a real thing that's happening. it's gotten way undercovered because we pay attention to flash grenades. >> and to me the most significant is what's happening with dhs and i.c.e. and what's happening with immigration. it's very different in terms of
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who's being detained and how often. >> and doj with jeff sessions, who hasn't done every terrible thing he wants to do, but wishes he could. >> but ultimately, you get judged by legislative accomplishments, both at the ballot box -- that's not true. you get judged by how people's lives are going. and right now the economy continues to hum along. do you -- if you had to make a prediction about whether he can get people onboard for any big bills passed this fall, what do you think? >> i think he's going to have a really tough time doing so. because trump's worst enemy is trump, right? so he -- he misses -- to your point, he misses opportunities. when he does have the bully pulpit, but he can't help himself and he has to use it to attack someone. i want to make another point, though. with trump supporters, because i think that we have to not underestimate trump, as a democrat, i think we have to be very careful that we don't underestimate. there also was a poll that came out that said a massive number of republicans think that the media is a bigger threat than -- >> white supremacists.
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>> white supremacy! yes! that is clearly trump's influence. >> 40% total thought the news media was more a threat than white supremacists. and for trump voters, it's 75%. >> look how much stronger trump is against the news media than he is against white supremacists, of course they think that. >> and i want to talk about that. stay with me. because in two minutes, i want to talk specifically about the president's response to charlottesville. that's right after the break. coming up later in the hour, we have a special retrospective, a look at the incredibly shrinking administration. >> the era of the pajama boy is over january 20th and the alpha males are back. i'm milissa rehberger with your top stories. ahead of the president's expected announcement tomorrow on 800,000 young immigrants, some republicans in congress are calling for him to keep the daca program. republican lawmakers like james langford of oklahoma say it's wrong to hold children accountable for their parent's decision to bring them to this
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country. and aaa says average gas prices this holiday weekend are up about 12 cents a gallon after hurricane harvey knocked refineries offline. "all "all in with chris hayesai after this.
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last month, white supremacists descending upon charlottesville, virginia, for a unite the right rally. they were greeted by counterprfcounte counterprotesters and later the rally was canceled. later, james alex fields allegedly drove a car into a crowd of protestcounterprosecut killing 32-year-old heather heyer and injuring dozens of others. a few hours later from his golf
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club in new jersey, the president gave his first remarks on the attack, saying he blamed for both sides on what unfolded. the comment drew swift criticism. a day later, he gave another statement, a scripted condemnation of the hate groups involved. but then tuesday came, and in an impromptu prmess conference, donald trump reached what may have been the lowest point of his proteesidency. >> i've condemned neo-nazis, i've condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-nazis, believe me. not all of those people were white supremacists, by any stretch. you had some very bad people in that group. but you also had people that were very fine people on both side sides. >> why -- that -- the post-charlottesville moment, more than any moment, of all we've talked about, the news cycles of trump, seemed to hit something. it seemed to strike some core
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nerve in people. and there's evidence of that. there's some evidence in the polling, but also in terms of the business groups leaving and being denounced. why? >> he sympathized with nazis. we've never had an american president do that before in our lifetime. i think it's that simple. those aren't american values, any can quote the secretary of state, his own secretary of state. america does not condone those values. america fights nazis. and here we have this person who is giving the exact inverse of what he said about mexicamexica that first day that he announced his candidacy for president, he said, they're sending racists and some, with i suppose are okay. he said the exact inverse about nazis. there are a lot of good people in there. some are obviously bad, but overall -- >> i think some people on the right kind of scared themselves. i think some even who identified in the alt-right scared themselves. there's a good piece in the "new york" magazine about the end of the nazi is over because they
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actually marched and actually had arm bands on there, like, oh, i've got a tiki torch and outside a black church, what the hell am i doing? >> scared themselves. that's a very interesting idea. >> this harkens back to a speech in warsaw, it was really weirdly apocalyptic about how the west will never ever, ever fall. and he was going to defend us against this sort of imminent fall. and who were the people that were going to undermine this apparently fragile west that's been pretty successful over the last 250 years? it was obviously islamic terrorists. but it was also faceless bureau cat accurates who don't understand our value or in the language cherish our history. so they're trying to make us all this kind of one person. that kind of sense of apocalyptic clinching of a narrow view of what western civilization is, he has that in common with the protesters in charlottesville, even if that's -- i'm not saying that, well, he's a racist or a white supremacist, but that's a common trope on the white, at this moment. and a lot of people who realize
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that and have, including a lot of republicans, like, oh, crap, this is where we're going with all of this. >> i think -- i'm curious to get your feedback, too, on one of the things that was so revealing about it was, the initial reaction, he ad libbed both sides. he had a prepared statement. he ad libbed both sides, and then came out with the scripted statement, and then that tuesday press conference. and another breaking point was, i think in people's imaginations, like, don't believe anything anyone writes for this guy. like, don't just -- don't chalk it up to him. >> right. >> just only listen to what he says when he's unscripted. because that's when you're actually getting him. >> exactly. and here's the thing. he was so angry that he did not get a positive reception to his remake of what he had said. and that's why he came out. because he didn't want to make -- those scripted remarks, he didn't want to make -- >> against his will, that's right. >> he didn't want to make those remarks. so then he felt justified when he wasn't given it will adoration ande edand adieulatio giving those remarks.
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>> i want to show this, when he was in phoenix, like, he's the victim. what more do you want of me? i've gone after all of them. take a listen. >> i hit 'em with neo-nazi, i hit 'em with everything. i got the white supremacist, the neo-nazi, i got 'em all in there. let's see. kkk, we have kkk. i got 'em all. >> just literally checking boxes. >> he's checking boxes. and it's all about him. this is the thing, right? if you look at the pre-election polling, over 50% of the american public thought that racist was a correct adjective to describe donald trump. and i think there were so many people -- >> pre-election polling? >> pre-election. and he was still able -- most of the people who voted for him didn't think that. but remember, he lost the popular vote. >> although, let's be clear, there were some who did. >> there were some. >> there's a non-statistically trivial percentage of voters who thought donald trump was a racist and voted for donald trump. >> and voted for him, anyway. >> not necessarily, "anyway." >> right, both ways. >> right.
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>> but i'll just say, this just confirms the worst thoughts that many americans had about him. and that's why this was such a turning point. oh, my god, he's doing what we thought he might do. >> tara? >> and i also think it was hard -- trump couldn't use his bully pulpit and his rhetoric to get himself out of this. people saw the video foot animal of of a car driving into a crowd at top speed -- >> a young woman was murdered! >> -- and bodies flying up into the air. they saw a young woman lose her life for saying that she was standing up against hate and bigotry. they heard people marching, with torches, saying "the jews will not replace us." >> "blood and soil, blood and soil," which is a nazi chant, which they were doing on the friday night march, which is the one that he went out of his way -- i mean, that was to me the most mind boggling statement. that march, the tiki torch march -- >> was the one he said -- >> he said, the night before, there were some very fine people. those people, who were swarming outside the synagogue in charlottesville, i mean --
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>> and no matter where you got your news from -- because remember, there's also this bifurcated selection news problem that we have in this country. and so, so it didn't matter where you got your news from, you couldn't miss all of that. it was just everywhere. and so that's why i think he took a real it h hit on this, deservedly. >> and there was no pretense. i looked through the information. the information leading to the unite the right rally, all the iconography and their posters was fascist looking. the people on record were on record saying a lot of racist things. the monument protection society wouldn't join the protest, because they were like, these people are creeping me out. >> thank you all so much for your time. still to come, the is intensifying russian investigation. what we've learned. what we still don't know. where the investigation is headed this fall. plus, how many people in this picture still work at the white house? the numerous administration officials who are gone but not forgotten.
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>> i like mr. bannon. he's a friend of mine, but mr. bannon came on very late you know that. but we'll see what happens with mr. bannon. but he's a good person and i think the press treats him, frankly, very unfairly. and i'm still not ready. the reason i'm telling you this is that there will be moments in your life that... you'll never be ready for. your little girl getting married being one of them. ♪ ♪ the whole country booking on choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom... let it sink in. shouldn't we say we have the lowest price? nope, badda book. badda boom. have you ever stayed with choice hotels? like at a comfort inn? yep. free waffles, can't go wrong. i like it.
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in the first seven months of the trump administration, people have come and gone. well, mostly they've gone, at least 20 significant members of the mrngs have administration hd or been fired, the national security team, but some of the most high-profile firings
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happened this summer, when backstabbings played out in public and the ax started falling left and right. >> last week, somebody said was like the red wedding in "game of thrones," with people coming and going and getting -- i'm going to fire everybody. and it was really wild. >> before we head into the fall, here's a look back at the summer exodus. ♪ i will remember you >> photographs of the inaugural proceedings were intentionally framed in a way to minimize the enormous support that had gathered on the national mall. >> in a stunning staff shuffle tonight, a familiar face stepping down, this shake up, the sixth, just six months into this young mrnadministration. >> this was the alarmest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period. >> sarah huckabee sanders is going to be the press secretary -- oh, you can't hear me? i'm sorry. better? better now? better now? you guys heard me in the front, though?
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what'd i say, john? >> reporter: tonight, a major staff shake up in the embattled west wing. chief of staff reince priebus is out. >> he intuitively determined that it was time to do something different. and i think he's right. >> reince priebus is a believe paranoid skitz freng and what he's going to do, maybe if i leak something and see if i can [ bleep ] these people. >> the president certainly felt that anthony's comments were inappropriate for a person in that position. >> reporter: scaramucci, originally praised by the president, targeted white house staff with a profanity-laced rant. >> i'm not steve bannon. i'm not trying to suck my own [ bleep ]. >> and that's what the mainstream media won't report. they're absolutely dead wrong about what's going on today, because we have a team that's just grinding it through. >> i like mr. bannon. he's a friend of mine. >> reporter: the now ousted chief strategist telling bloomberg he's leaving the white house to fight for president trump. >> mr. bannon came on very late. you know that.
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>> reporter: bannon now becoming one of the last west wing originals to leave the picture. >> you know, the message i have, it's a very simple one, bumper sticker, the era of the pajama boy is over january 20 skpth ane alpha males are back. >> you know, you made news last week by resigning from the white house. they have a different take on how you left. >> so this does not prove that kirk was fired, but he's definitely not allowed back. >> don't test donald j. trump. >> it seems the era of seth gorka at the white house is over. ♪ and i will remember you ♪ sailin' away on the crest of a wave, it's like magic ♪ ♪ rollin' and ridin' and slippin' and slidin' ♪ ♪ it's magic introducing the all new volkswagen tiguan.
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oscar mayer deli fresh. sweet! it's easy to lose track of the many developments in the russia investigation or just the last few months. remember, in july, when news broke that donald trump jr. took a meeting with a russian lawyer during the presidential election, a meeting that was pic pitched as the russian government's explicit interest in helping the trump campaign. don jr. came out with a statement on the intent of the meeting that we later learned left out basically every key detail. and now that statement is reportedly a matter of interest to special counsel, robert mueller, because, it turns out, the president himself had a hand in crafting it, a fact the president's attorney initially denied. then in august, we learned the fbi had conducted a surprise raid of the home of former trump campaign chairman, paul manafort, and robert mueller issued grand jury subpoenas for the testimony of p.r. executives who worked with manafort. now there's the latest
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revelations about efforts to build a trump tower moscow during the campaign. as the bigger picture starts to come into focus, the question becomes, where does the investigation go from here? we have just the people to talk about that, former watergate prosecutor, nick ackerman, who's been following the russia developments with all summer. rebecca trayster. maria hiddnojosa, and josh barr, senior editor at business insider. nick, let me start with you. you've been very clued into this and you also have been around, done this rodeo before. how big are the developments of this summer? >> huge pip mean, the biggest development, i think the key one is the meeting that took place at trump tower, on june 9th. i mean, that is going to be the focal point of every investigation. >> when we learned that, i had a great moment in the "snl" skit of lester holt interviewing donald trump, where he like admits he was thinking about russia, with james comey. and michael shea playing lester
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holt was like, did i get him? like, is that it? like, you just admitted it. and that e-mail felt like just, okay, did we -- we have it, right? we have the evidence here? >> not completely. not completely. i think there's more to it. the question is the documents that were promised to be brought to that meeting. interestingly, nobody has fessed up to those documents. but we do know that two months -- >> the dirt on hillary clinton. that was the idea -- delivering dirt on hillary clinton? >> and we do know two months prior to that meeting that go z guccifer and the russians had hacked into hillary clinton's campaign office and had retri e retrieved e-mails and documents. >> that's a great point. >> we also know that two weeks after that meeting, all of a sudden, those documents appear on the internet and then appear on wikileaks, and we also know that roger stone, the president's chief kind of dirty tricks guy, was in contact with julian assange and guccifer, immediately after that meeting on june 9th.
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i think there's lots of questions there. >> rebecca, you covered the clinton campaign. and one of the things that strikes me when i go back and look at the campaign footage is how much they were talking about this, from the beginning. it is striking to go back to debates and realize, like, it was all happening in realtime and the clinton campaignrealtim. >> yeah, hillary clinton was talking about so many of the details. i saw a clip of her talking about joe arpaio. she was talking about so much, but especially about russia. they clearly were keeping track of this as best they could and trying to piece things together as best they could. but it wasn't sinking in. they weren't listening. i wasn't listening. as someone who was covering the campaign, i wasn't thinking about russia's role. i was listening, but i don't know, it was a claim of an opponent against another opponent. it wasn't -- it didn't feel real. you know, i was paying attention, but trying not to get sucked into a conspiracy theory, you know? and that was the dynamic in play, because lots of people on the left were also saying, this is crazy conspiracy theory.
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th this couldn't be real. >> and i'm a little bit concerned. as someone who actually had to do the bomb shelter thing when i was a kid in grade school, i've been hyperaware of it. and i am a political junkie, like all of us, right? so everything we're watching, every step, but i do worry, out there. kind of like when i was a kid, watching watergate, and you just heard all the names and they were just kind of flying by you and it just becomes this huge thing. that's what i'm concerned about. that for everybody else, it can continue to be this thing that donald trump will say, oh, you see, it's just them coming after me. and i wonder how we as a country and as journalists kind of flip it. >> well, i think watergate is sort of an interesting precedent, right? it was like all these names, and eventually, it wasn't. >> exactly. >> i think the other thing we don't have yet is an indication of a specific policy action for russia in exchange for this. i think the problem with this as an issue is sort of, did we -- this is a disinformation campaign. if you show, yeah, russia did this, and yeah, trump knew about
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it and mad conversations with him about it, fundamentally the mechanism by which the election was influenced is that americans received the information and decided to vote for donald trump instead of hillary clinton. you're never going to convince people that that was the error that they hacked into american's minds and caused them to vote the wrong way. ultimately, the final decision was made by american voters. so this never ends up adding up to like russia stole the election? because it was american voters -- >> the crime, it is worthwhile to keep in mind, the crime was committed. there's a crime. criminal intrusion of e-mails is a crime. -- >> but that's not a crime committed by the trump campaign. >> but it's a political question. there probably will be indictments of various people. but the decision about whether this ends the trump administration says political question with congress and other actors. >> that's true pip also think that to me, i have had my own journey on this. that that meeting -- to me, that meeting -- the meeting e-mail was an important one for this reason. i did not think the day before that e-mail came out that that
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e-mail would have existed. that seemed implausible and cartoonish and conspiratorial against all imaginings. and it came out and that altered my priors about what i'm expecting to come out. >> but you add to that e-mail exactly the explanation that donald trump wrote for his son, which is so antiseptic -- >> they lied. >> they lied and they put in a statement by kushner, which also dovetails with junior's statement. it's like classic investigation. you get two guys who come in, they give you a totally nonsense story. and then you've got the opportunity to chip away at it. >> right. >> i think there is this psychological issue, though, for a lot of regular americans, and those of us political junkies who are watching this and watching these headlines and being surprised, oh, my god, did we get him? is that it? that's it? right? we now know this happened? which is, is there going to be a point where anybody can say, okay, now a mechanism is going to kick into place. and that's a question, with i don't know, did people ask that throughout watergate and
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suddenly there was a mechanism whereby this kicks in? a lot of people are like, we got him, right? but why isn't anything happening? and we feel paralyzed and passive, and what's going to happen next? >> here's what i will say. i think mueller is going to do something, at some point. that seems to me, and i'm curious what you think of it, that when mueller moves, in whatever direction he moves, if he indicts someone, if he releases some report, that's going to be a forcing mechanism, i think, in terms of the public awarene awareness. maybe not. >> yes, but also what happened just recently is donald trump pardoned joe arpaio. so for me as a latina, as a mexican, i kind of get the message. the president is pardoning someone who specifically targeted people just like me, illegally, and the president pardoned him. >> and he's a political ally. >> right. >> and that's the message. for everybody else, don't worry, we're going to -- i'm going to pardon you, >> and a lot of people feel like
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that pardon was a signal. >> that's what makes the news this week about mueller cooperating with new york attorney general, eric schneiderman, so important. because the president can't issue pardons for state crimes. the attorney general of new york has immense authority to prosecute financial crimes. they're doing a lot of financial investigations around at least manafort, maybe other figures. so i think that gives mueller the threat of prosecutions that the president can't interfere with. >> that also says how advanced that investigation is and how serious it's going to get in the fall. and i think that's when mueller starts to move in public ways is when things are really going to change, i think. republicans head back to the hill to work on the agenda of a president who spent the summer attacking them with key deadlines in the coming weeks. a preview of the major fights to come. >> build that wall. now, the obstructionist democrats would like us not to do it. but believe me, we have to close down our government, we're building that wall.
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i'm wondering what you can
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tell the people of texas to expect in terms of long-term recovery efforts? and in particular, you have been feuding with some key congressional leaders. you've also threatened a government shutdown, potentially, next month over border wall funding. are these going to hamper long-term, the funding that will be needed long-term for recovery? >> no, jud. ping that you're going to see very rapid action from congress, certainly from the president. and you're going to get your funding. >> hurricane harvey could end up being one of the most costly natural disasters in u.s. history, but when congress returns tomorrow, one of the things on the table is a $1 billion cut in disaster funding in order to fund donald trump's border wall. a wall the president is threatening to do battle with his own party over. >> build that wall. now, the obstructionist democrats would like us not to do it, but believe me, if we have to close down our government, we're building that wall. >> still with me, nick ackerman, rebec rebecca, maria hinojosa, and
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josh barrow. they're already basically signaling retreat on the wall fight. they're going to blame it on harvey. but there's two ways to think about the wall. it's the symbol they'll never deliver on, because all that matters is the symbol and the thing they'll never do. which do you see it as? >> i think that this is going to continue to -- we're going to talk about it, but i'm not so sure it's going to get done. i just don't -- i was on park avenue and i saw the picture on the "daily news," i had just come back from being out of the country, and it was like, build the wall, it was trump's face, on park avenue, on the "daily news." build the wall or i'll kill this government. and that's a point where i think some people are just going to say, i don't -- this is not the way -- >> right, exactly. and they've already indicated they don't like the politics of it. now they have the excuse, sort of, frankly, of harvey. and they're already saying, let's just kick the can on the shutdown fight. >> my best guess is that this is where we could see the true
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explosion or implosion of trump's relationship with congress, which has been a really interesting dynamic for these very long seven or eight months. because they keep supporting him, they won't, you know, the republican leadership is supporting him in these really antidine ways when he's done terrible things. you have paul ryan say things like, racism is bad, but not mentioning donald trump. and the idea is they're getting something from him. they have majorities, a republican president, this unprecedented amount of power and that they should be getting something because they're working as a team, so they're supporting this guy that most of them clearly can't stand and he's a real -- >> piece of work. >> he's a real piece of work. but we look weak, in fact, because we're continuing to support this guy. but his frustrations with them have been building, obviously, were building through health care. he's now pretty open about his loathing for mitch mcconnell. i mean, there's been good reporting on that, too, that they openly hate each other now. and i think that's coming through on ryan, too. and what happens when that -- when those bonds of, well, we all have -- we have these majorities because we want to get our tax cuts for the rich, if that doesn't happen, and if those bonds break down, then what happens? if trump is cut off from his
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party as in congress -- >> do you think that's make or break? so the setup there being that basically the last big legislative achievement and the domestic policy version of the go gorsuch appointment, which is like the thing that all of us normal conservative and republicans want to see, tax, tax, tax, if that doesn't happen -- >> i think it's different from health care in that if you don't do tax reform today, you can do it tomorrow. they had to move on from health care because the bill was so unpopular and so politically damage to even talk about that they had to move on from it to try to get to something that they thought was more plausible and a lot of them were more interested in in the first place. i think they'll continue to hold out hope they'll eventually pass something. and the other thing to keep them from breaking out into total warfare, it's a disaster in the midterm. if you have them angry with each other, normal republicans who are furious with the president and trump supporters who don't like congress not sticking them, it's a turnout disaster for republicans and they all lose. >> but isn't the dissent already in the open at this point? like, the fact that they're sort of in shambles, going into the
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midtermses, is becoming ever-manufacture evident, right? >> well, i don't -- i mean, the generic ballot polling is ugly for them, but not like total disaster range yet. i think they're complaining more openly. people are less afraid of the president. rich lowry made a really great point in the column this week, the president by going after jeff sessions and not doing anything to him demonstrated tremendous weakness. even if he was furious with someone, he would complain about them but not really do anything. that's emboldened other members of the cabinet to rebuke him and other members of congress, as well. >> he'll tweet about you, but that'll be it. >> i want to remind people, because we are talking about houston, houston is a majority/minority city. the head of the police department, the head of the fire department, it is selina country. you also had i.c.e. and border patrol keeping open their checkpoints. so it's almost like -- like, oh, you want to a build a wall? build the wall 60 miles from houston, actually, which is where that checkpoint is. and that, by the way, for many
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latinos who probably voted for trump, in this area, i think this is going to be another moment where, again, it's another test. and -- >> because it's a good point. there are -- he did not do a do against latino voters. >> and by the way, there are those in houston who supported him. what's going to happen to them. it's the chipping away if you will of the potential voters who will come back to reelect him. >> but this is all a situation where it's just reflective of the fact that when it comes to policy, this president doesn't know anything. >> right. >> this wall is ridiculous. >> the basic foretex at the heart of it all. i want to ask about his relationship to congress, more pointedly what that relationship is particularly in reference to what nicken's relationship with with congress. stay with us. we're going to talk about that after this break.
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and right now save 50% on the labor day limited edition bed, plus 36 month financing. ends monday! and think, think. we were just one vote away from victory after seven years of everybody proclaiming we peel a -- repeal and replace. one vote away. one vote away. i will not mention any names. very presidential, isn't it? very presidential. and nobody wants me to talk about your other senator who is weak on borders, weak on crime. so i won't talk about him. >> president lashing out at john mccain and jeff flake in their home state last month, two of a long list of republicans the president is publicly flooding
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with. nick, nick faced a democratic congress which is key. because when we talk about the times that impeachment articles have been pursued, it's always been opposition. what do you make -- what implication does the president's relationship with congressional republicans have with how this investigation unfolds? >> it's huge. nicken had a good relationship with congress in comparison to trump. >> really? >> weyes. >> the only reason nixon -- when the tapes came out, that's when they realized this guy really is a crook. and that's when barry goldwater went to the white house and read him to tea leaves and said it's time to get out of dodge and that's what happened. >> i think that -- you wrote a piece that i thought was interesting where you business cli posited that republicans in congress have been checking him more than maybe people appreciate. and i think there's -- i didn't
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necessarily agree with the column but there is something to it. >> yeah. the most significant piece of legislation that's come out of this congress is the rugs sanctions bill taking away what would ordinarily be a prerogative of the president saying we don't trust you to conduct foreign affairs with russian, overwhelming bipartisan margins. and then you've head all of these hearings. and the liberals look at the hearing saying that the republicans don't ask good questions. but they don't have to hold these hearings at all. it's a remarkable thing that we're a few months into the republican administration and republican congress and the senate committees -- the white house committees have been embarrassing. but the senate committees have been conducting a serious damaging investigation to the president and they don't have to do that. >> the other part of this, rebecca, talking about the personal feud building. the president, he's not inventing it. he really doesn't like these people. >> yeah. >> and they really don't like him. and at a certain level
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personality does matter and it's only going to get worse. >> and it fuels for him the tremendous victim concept. i find this moment terrifying. the russian investigation circling in, whatever relationships he had with his own party is disintegrating fast. and he gets scary and unpredictable when he's in a corner. and right now what the setup is everybody is after me. the media is after me, fake news. my own party gets in the way of doing this thing we -- who is we? any and my 30% of people who like me. that's a core base and they want some really scary things. democrats are obstructionists. i'm being persecuted. this is setting up a narrative in which he's the ultimate victim of the witch hunt. he's been using that phrase for months. and i think that is setting us up for whatever his view of the next chapter is going to be when it's the whole world against
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trump. and i think that the departures of bannon and gorka from his inner circle going into the outside supports that. the establishment is emptied of his allies. he alone is there. >> right. so we were talking about this in terms of like if everything is going to explode and you get really worried and i get very concerned and then i happen to be interviewing delores about an hour or so ago, a documentary coming out about her life, supported and created by carlos santana. he's 87. has been around the block a long time. right? so when i asked her, where do we go from here? >> how scared are you? >> she's just like, you know, those 20,000 people that came out in boston to bprotest againt the white supremacists, they were mostly anglo. so he says, that's an amazing organizing opportunity for latinos. i'm just like i never would have thought that. so that is where i think on all of us, there is that question of
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what is this moment. and by the way, we're all exhausted, right? how much more can we do. all of us are exhausted and there are many saying what is the opportunity and how do we engage deeper. i'm still asking the guys at the connecticut at the harbor story, so, who did you vote for? he was like, trump and i'm really regretting it now. without any prompting. >> there's two dynamics. some set of voters who are moving away. i think rebecca's model for the fall is a really useful one. trump against the world increasingly. they're going to pretend to work together for tax reform. i guess the question is -- i have this line about him where it always feels like the last part of the farce where the guy is going back and forth between if two rooms putting on the mustache and he's about to get felt out. and the last part of the farce keeps going and there's never the ending. we'll see the part of the fall
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if the farce actually happens. i appreciate you all coming. many thanks. that is all in for this evening. we'll be back at the desk 8:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow night. be there. thanks for joining us tonight. happy to have you with us. in terms of scandal and potential criminal liability even, the real existential crisis is the russia crisis. the management handling of that crisis and the white house has been an unusual spectacle to report on. the fra frenetic pace of the turnover of white house senior staff, the colorful and profane cast of characters who the president has brought in, various lauswyers on the issue. it's been weird and astonishing to watch in terms of the way this white house has handled this scandal

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