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tv   MSNBC Live With Velshi and Ruhle  MSNBC  September 15, 2017 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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irma's devastation. we'll hear from her in a while. let's get started. >> a fire ball in the london subway during the morning rush hour. >> metropolitan police announced they're treating it as a terrorist incident. >> people including children being trampled under foot as people rushed from the cars in panic. pictures from social media show belongings abandoned and what may be a crude explosive device. >> we have to be smart and very tough. perhaps we're not nearly tough enough. >> a new missile launch by north korea. again flying over japanese air space. the stakes of a nuclear stand off higher than ever. >> this was a very bold and defiant step by the north koreans. the regime defied the world. >> it's a longest flight distance wise for north korean ballistic missile. >> overnight japanese sirens sounding for the second time in three weeks. >> warning people to take shelter inside or go underground. >> they meet again later this
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afternoon and another emergency session. let's start with the breaking news from london. what authorities are calling a terrorist attack. that would be britain's fifth this year. london police say a homemade bomb, a so-called bucket bomb burst into flames on a packed train during this morning's rush hour. it happened at about 8:20 a.m. london time. at least 23 people were injured. although they say none of the injuries were thought to be serious. they were mostly superficial burns. pictures from inside the subway car like this show a white bucket on fire inside a supermarket plastic bag with wires trailing on to the train floor. a commuter post third down video of the burning bucket. last word, no arrests. london subway stations are well equipped with surveillance cameras. the police will be looking through hundreds. the aboveground area.
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president trump reacted on twitter. another attack in london by a loser terrorist. these are sick and demented people in the sites of scotland yard. must be proactive. he added loser terrorists must be dealt with in a much tougher manner. their internet is their main recruitment tool when which we must cut off and use better. then on camera. >> it's a terrible thing. it keeps going and going. and we have to be very smart and be very, very tough. which perhaps we're not nearly tough enough, but that is just an absolutely terrible thing, and i'm going to call the prime minister right now. >> keir simmons joins us live in the scene in london. keir, i'm just -- the tweet that the president said people who were in the sites of scotland yard.
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do we know anything? does the president know something the rest of us are not getting right now? >> that's a good question. >> reporter: the police here at scotland yard are searching for whoever was responsible for this going through security footage from the subway car. they aren't saying they have that kind of information. that tweet, though, that you mentioned from the president has caused quite a stir here. it has not been received well at scotland yard. the prime minister herself was asked about it at the house of parliament today. take a listen. >> prime minister, donald trump intervened to say this was carried out by people who scotland yard had in its sights. does he know something we don't? >> i never think it's helpful for anybody to speculate in an ongoing investigation. the police and security services are working to discover the full circumstances of this cowardly attack and to identify all those responsible. >> and that comes pretty close
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to a rebuke from the british prime minister. so far from the police we know that they haven't arrested anyone. in fact, the crucial focus here is not that kind of politic political argument. it is trying to find who this was. a man hunt underway. this looks like a crude bomb n something put together perhaps on their own. we don't know it for certain. if they've done it once, they might be able to do it. u.s. intelligence officials saying they believe it did not detonate -- detonated earlier than perhaps what was intended. it makes the hunt for whoever was behind this more urgent. >> keir, the police are asking for people in video or pictures to send them in. britain has a lot of cameras all over the place. the subways all do. the threat level in britain is at severe, and there's some discussion about raising it to critical. what do we know about that? >> reporter: yeah. look, they changed the threat level depending on the intention they have and whether they have
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a specific knowledge of a specific attack being planned or getting ready to be played out in the days ahead. i'll tell you about something that's happened here that's unusual in. it is unusual that there are no witnesses talking about seeing somebody or someone perhaps shouting slogans. that suggests maybe this thing was left on a subway car. if that's the case, that's different from the kinds of attacks that kind of suicide attacks we've seen in the past. that is the kind of evidence they're going through. it may suggest this is a lone wolf inspired on the internet that we've seen before, attacks carried out by people who are mentally ill. there are many possibilities here. this does not have to be a coordinated or planned attack by a terrorist cell if you like. but, again, the nature of the fact that someone tried to do this means it's crucial that police here find them quickly. >> all right. keir simmons in london. we'll stay with you as you learn
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more. joining me live now from london from the london school of economics, and political science professor, a new book titled isis, a history, good to see you again. it's early to know what these things are, and increasingly every time these happen, we struggle with the idea of whether or not these are inspired by a group like isis or al qaeda which remains active or whether something new happened and people read things that said conduct an attack. when you look at the attacks lately in great britain, they seem to be of the latter sort. >> i mean, 2017 has been a bloody year in the uk as you just mentioned. five attacks. 38 people have been killed. dozens have been. you have different kind of attacks.
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lone wolves, al qaeda and isis, coordinated networks. @@. >> according to security forces you have about 3,000. what's the good news is that no one hurt today. even though we have 22 people injured, burned by this particular attack. >> you mentioned an interesting point. let's say we have a high number of radicalized individuals. what we tend to talk about is the security the surveillance, the speed of response. all those types of things and the new security measures that go into place. the enough being done? president trump said we have to do more. his implication is we have to be
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tougher. is the correct response tougher or different? >> my take is that donald trump does not really know what he's talking about. with all humility and respect for the president of the united states. the british authorities are extremely tough. for donald trump, he should realize the security forces have prevented six major attacks in 2017. six major plots that would have killed dozens and injured hundreds of people in the uk. just for the president's knowledge in the past one year, the british authorities have been arrested more than 600 suspects related to terrorism. 65% increase in the number of suspects arrested as a result of terrorism. so the police and the security forces are doing a great deal. you cannot prevent every single plot, because you have lone wolves. you have individuals who are
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radicalized or inspired by the islamist ideology of al qaeda and isis. more can be done, but this does not mean that the idea of being tough will prevent all attacks in barcelona or belgium or california or france or london as we have seen today. >> smart as opposed to tough. always good to see you. thank you. a professor of international relations at the london school of economics. we're following breaking news involving north korea. i want to show you what's happened. the rogue nation launched another missile overnight. it's the 19th missile test this year. this one was fired from near the capital of pyongyang. and it flew once again over the northern japanese island of hokkai hokkaido. this one travelled the farthest of a distan of any missile launched so far. 2300 miles. the last one went into the water
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just past japan. 2300 miles into the pacific. why is this 2300 miles relevant? let me show you. guam is just 2131 miles from pyongyang. this one went this way. if you want to get to guam, you could go that way. pyongyang threatened early last month to fire missiles toward guam. this comes as the united nations approved new sanctions on north korea on monday. that in response to north korea's suspected hydrogen bomb test on september 3rd. the security council now scheduled to meet again in an emergency session this afternoon. we have a great team to help us break it down. let me start with hans nickels joining us live from the pentagon. hans, you are always good at telling us the differences. what's the relevance here? >> well, in terms of capability, we don't know whether or not they can tip this with a warhead
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that weighs down and still hit guam. that's one key question we still have here at the pentagon. what was the load factor? the other thing we're hearing is the importance of context. the context is it's pretty clear and we just have a top general in nebraska saying they detonated something close that looked like a hydrogen bomb. not only did they have that capability, but this is after what was some pretty biting sanctions, and you remember, administration officials were crowing about how successful those sanctions were. here at the pentagon there's always been a little more script schi skepticism in seeing what the u.s. does, not the u.n. that will be a measure on how biting the sanctions are. one other final point, the president is going to andrews air force base today. when he gives his remarks, he'll be flanked by a b 2 bomber, an f 22 and f 45.
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the those are all fighters and bombers with stealth capability. >> that's right. when we talk about north korea, we're always talking about conventional war versus nuclear war. there are important matters to discuss on that front. is there a pentagon response in what are people at the pentagon thinking about this endless small pro vags. it doesn't top north korea can't win a nuclear war or conventional war against u.s. allies, but think keep doing it. >> they would say they're incremental advances toward a final goal. they demonstrated part of the goal that they can hit guam. the other question is how much resources do they actually have in north korea? you look at how expensive it is to launch missiles from this country. north korea is a country with finite resources. they're burning through, 19 missiles in a year. how much gas is left in fact
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tank and what is ultimately the end game, and at what point do they stop? those are the questions. they keep saying this is now back in the diplomat's court. that's why we need to watch the white house briefing today. >> hans is our nbc pentagon correspondent. thank you. i want to bring in gordan chang. gordan is sitting with me. let me go to matt bradley in tokyo first. this becomes relevant because tokyo and the united states are allies. sirens sounded in japan for the second time in a couple of weeks as the north korean missiles flew entirely over japanese air space. as if a missile flew over the west coast and then out through the east coast. this is a very big and worry somematter for the japanese. >> that's right. a lot of japanese saying they're lucky there weren't any
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injuries. the no results resulting. they always raise questions that maybe the missiles might actually divert off course and could very easily fall into the japanese mainland. but the fact is that this missile only spent about two minutes over japanese air space before as you mentioned it crashed into the north pacific ocean a couple of hundred miles off the east coast of japan. but the japanese did decide they weren't going to shoot down this missile. that's because they have that technological capability where just a few minutes after the missile was launched they knew it was not going to be flying into the japanese mainland. it was going to be crossing over. but they did activate the j alert system. it's the sending of text mess e messages to individual japanese citizens alerting them to find shelter and posted messages on japanese television telling
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people to find shelter. there were sirens blaring. a lot of people scrambled. but here in tokyo, if you walk around on the streets, people don't seem worried. there's not a pressing sense of alarm. remember, people here have been living with this missile threat for more than half of a century. so there's a little bit of a boy who cried wolf element going on. people here don't get upset when they hear about these things. this is the sixth time the north koreans have lobbed a missile over the japanese mainland and the second time they've launched an arm missile over the japanese mainland. people here aren't going to be all that upset, but the chattering classes, they sat up and paid attention. the prime minister shinzo abe mentioned he gave a press conference where he condemned the attacks and said it wasn't to come to a good end for the north koreans. he called on the international community to renew their pressure on north korea to give up their arms.
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he was one of the japanese statement was one of the reasons why the secure council is going to be meeting within the next couple of hours. now, remember, of course, that this is all sort of falling into this same sort of ritualized response that we keep seeing in response to these north korean missile tests. now, we see the missile tests. we see the meetings of the security council, the condemnation, and the sanctions. this missile te was in response to sanctions passed earlier this week that so enraged north korea, because these sanctions, they were really just an incremental increase in the levies penalized against north korea, but they did sanction north korea on their oil which is a major issue. they basically docked north korea by 30% of their oil imports. and they actually cut off most of their textile exports. and that's a major source of foreign exchange currency for the north koreans. so this is a big issue for the north koreans. and that's why they really decided to retaliate in such a strong way, and one of the
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reasons why they did what they did after their thermonuclear attack this month is to send a message to the word that they can miniaturize a nuclear weapon and put it on top of an icbm or an intermediate range missile and send it maybe as far as the u.s. mainland. that's the threat we'll be looking forward to in this horrifying set of events coming up. >> thank you. matt for us in tokyo. he's brought up a lot of issues i want to discuss with gordan chang. he's the author of "nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world". let's change tracks. let's assume that our allies in asia are thinking this might be the boy who cried wolf. let's assume that kim jong-un's not crazy, he's provocative and there are a lot of other things involved, but he doesn't want to get involved in a nuclear war with the united states.
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let's assume conventional war is going to be bad around there. america and the allies could win a conventional war in six months but the number of dead around would be horrible. what does north korea want to achieve? what are they going for here? >> well, of course, they want regime preservation. they want two things. one of them is they sell this stuff around the world. they sell missiles and nuclear weapons technology to the iranians. the iranians pay them an estimated 2 to $3 billion a year for koormcooperation. that is completely unacceptable. the other thing is that the core goal of the kim regime is the takeover of south korea. and i'm worried that when kim jong-un is confident about his arsenal and that could be in just months, that he is going to try to blackmail the u.s. to break the mutual defense treaty with south korea. get our troops off the peninsula, and then you have a
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real possibility of miscalculation. that's what is driving fear. >> so kim jong-un's grandfather had the patronage of russia and china. kim jong-un's father had the patronage largely of china. but when you look at kim jong-un, and his relationship with china, the chinese premier has met ten times with the leaders of south korea, not north korea. they've never taken an official meeting with kim jong-un. at some point there isn't going to be a reunification of south korea and north korea where north korea is the boss. and china doesn't want south korea to run an unified north korea. kim jong-un has to know that. he's not cut off from the world. the rest of the nation is. >> he looks at the world differently. we view ourselfs as the world's strongest military power. it's true.
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kim's father and grandfather shot down the navy ec 121, 31 dead. we didn't do anything. so they think of us as weak. and so they think they can do things and get away with it. i'm not saying he's right, but that's how he views the world. that's the reason you can have miscalculation. they're going to cross lines where everybody in the united states or virtually everyone is going to think we can't let this continue. >> and can we solve it with sanctions before we can solve it militarily? >> i think we can. we have sanctions now which are ineffective and people say sanctions don't work. >> sanctions do work if you have the right ones. >> ineffective ones don't work, but strict ones do. we don't have sanctions on china which has been supplying equipment, semi process material. we have to start shutting down that trade. >> gordan, thank you. gordan chang our asia expert.
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he's a columnist with the daily beast. it's been ten days of deal making between president trump and democrats. that's got some republicans on edge. have conservatives actually been pushing the president into the arms of democrats? i'll discuss that next. for 100 ,
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i think you could see the e her skrens of a primary candidate from the right challenging donald trump. >> i think somebody is going to have to be reversed from the president's policy or it will blow up his base. this was a straight up promise all the way through his campaign. >> he's going to get creamed on this, and this -- if this goes down the way i fear it will go down, mark my words, this will be an electoral nightmare for republicans. >> the president's far right supporters are outraged over his recent conversations with top democrats over immigration and border security. breitbart showed supporters burning their make america great again hats. the right wing website calling it a, quote, protest against his big amnesty for no wall deal with democrats. there's confusion over what's
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happening with the d.r.e.a.m.ers program and the wall. the president insists he's working with republicans to find a solution. nancy pelosi and chuck schumer say they have a framework that will work in their favor. republican congresswoman claudia tenny of new york joins me. he's also a member of the financial services committee. thank you for being with us. let's start from the comments you heard. is this really the idea that the president is talking to republicans, is this really the end of everything for donald trump and the republican party that there's bipartisan? >> the democrats on the left are going insane too. they are both -- they're screening in fact i was reading an article about how upset they are that congresswoman pelosi and senator schumer are negotiating with this horrible president. everyone on the extremes are up in arms in. >> but actually this might be the way politics is supposed to work, right? >> yeah. aren't we supposed to be arguing
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and debating and finally coming up with something. there's nothing wrong with it. everybody rings their hand. we need a deal. everybody has to smile. no. we have to battle out our ideas. >> i had great conversation with one of your colleagues from kansas, roger marshal yes. they're big agricultural folks. in your part of new york state, he wants a congressional solution to daca. he doesn't think it's a good idea to get rid of these almost 800,000 daca workers, many of whom are agricultural workers. what's your take? >> i think daca is going to be a great bargaining chip for the president. i think he needs to use it to get the things he would like to have. i don't think you're going to kill your base with daca. it's one element of a very broad immigration policy. remember, we have over 4 million people waiting in line to be legal citizens of this country. >> right. >> millions more are waiting for visas. we have refugees we've taken in
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who we've given safe haven to. it's a complex issue. i think the president needs to negotiate for the things we haven't gotten. we want to get obamacare repealed and ri place -- replaced. we want tax reform. all the hysteria is not talking to the problem. i'm sympathetic to young people who were brought here, but we can't continue a policy where we encourage people to come across the line, put them in front of, first in line ahead of the legal residents, but at the same time i think there's a bill, there's a bill called recognizing the children act that's out. it's very interesting. i'm looking at co-sponsoring knit. -- it. i don't think it hurts the immigration issue. i think you need a build a wall. for a while i was not sure so much about the wall, but i've spoken to a number of people who think we need to do it. even our speaker said he went to the border and the people on the
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border think it would help. >> but the language is changing. for trump supporters and breitbart, it's build the wall. for democrats it's increase border security. >> we put the funding in appropriations for the wall. remember, we just passed 12 appropriations bills on order. the first time since 2009. we've done pretty much the president's entire agenda in the house side except for the tax reform. so we're getting to that. i think the president can use daca. it's something that i think a lot of people agree on. i don't think we should continue the policy of daca. i think that people should be coming here legally. i want to encourage people to come across the border. and also the idea of giving them citizenship, i don't support. guess what happens? we go through the family plan. you go through the getting everybody else in. it isn't just 700,000. it becomes millions. many of them are -- probably most of them are great citizens and students.
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>> the president unvailed the raise act through steven miller. it's -- there are a lot of countries that use a merit based system. we're talking about reducing the number of legal immigrants. it's strange. if the president is talking, he's reliant on this increasing gdp growth to finance the tax cuts he wants to put in. the math doesn't work. we're a country that doesn't replace its own workers. i feel like this administration doesn't have a strong handle on what you have well described as the complex problem of immigration. it's not simple. >> i think what the president has done is say you need to do something about this. what he did on daca, we knew it was coming you should attack by attorneys general. they were going to sue and probably win. the president said okay, congress, this is your job. you deal with this immigration issue. come up with a solution. you haven't done it in years. we've been through how many administrations? and back to congressman marshal,
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there is an issue in thing a world. we have more and more people who need employees to work an family farms. family farms are the larger you get, you don't have as many children to work on the farm anymore. >> dairy farms. there's a lot of labor involved. >> yeah, and we have a program for seasonal workers. what we don't have a year around program for dairy farmers. that's something i would consider. i want the people to be legal. we want to provide legal path to citizenship with them without being amnesty. making sure the people that want to come in prove that they want to be american citizens. they want to assimilate. i think a bill does a lot of that. and i don't think it would be offensive to the trump supporters. i think there's a lot of overreaction on it. we need to have borders. we need to protect our sovereignty. this is the distinguishing faech of our country to preserve the way of life. i think the president gave all of us and a mission to congress on both sides, get this done. get it done. and i think it's going to be interesting to see what happens.
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>> we run out of time to talk about the stuff we never get to talk about. but thank you for coming in and talking to us. claudia tenny of new york. she's on the 22nd congressional district in new york. breaking news. protests in the streets of st. louis after a police officer was found not. an officer was charged with first degree murder in the first of a man. stockily shot smith five times. he said he saw the man holding a gun. prosecuters say he planted the gun in smith's car after he shot him. court documents say the state did not prove beyond all reasonable doubt stockily did not act in self-defense. heart breaking conditions in the caribbean as people try to survive after losing everything
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during hurricane irma. my colleague joins me in a few minutes live from st. john u.s. vin g virgin islands. and jose which is expected to turn into a hurricane tonight is moving west inching closer to the eastern seaboard of the united states. say they people from the carolinas up to caped to should keep their eye on the storm. it would cause a storm surge if it tracks closer to the close.
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legal help is here. we continue to follow breaking news from london and north korea. london what british authorities are calling the fifth terrorist attack this year. fishes say at least 23 people were injured when a crude bomb exploded aboard a crowded subway train in west london. it happened during the morning rush hour. the good news, no one was seriously hurt. a brazen new act of defiance by north korea, a new missile test. it's the 19th one so far this year. kelly o'donnell joins us live from the white house with the reaction to both of the issues that the president has been referring to this morning. kelly, what's going on at the white house in response to a couple of major urgent international issues. >> reporter: a couple of things will probably develop as the day goes on.
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we expect to hear from hr mcmaster and nikki haley. they'll be talking about the meeting in new york, but this kind of can content, the attack of london the more bellicose provocative actions from north korea is in their portfolio. so far the president acknowledged he's been briefs on the issues. when it comes to london he's tweeted about it calling them ludsers. also provoking a little bit of an eyebrow raising response from the british prime minister. we've not had a read out of a calling. by saying this was someone in the sights of british authorities. she did not respond but called it unhelpful. the president is also trying to sort of project this we've got to get the bad guys response. we've seen that before, but we don't have a specific readout of
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any particular steps or any intelligence sharing that's been going on. but the president has over time when it comes to north korea, himself engaged in some of the colorful provocative language that fire and fury comment from the summer. at the same time trying to tamp down some of the anxieties, especially with an important ally like japan that had to take some action to warn its own citizens about sheltering in place with this latest firing off one of their military displays. >> kelly, got to ask you. early today when i was doing stephanie's show earlier, we had a picture of a picture mowing the lawn with the president apparently supervising such mowing. i think this was someone who wrote a letter. >> i got a chance to talk to the young man a little bit. 11-year-old frank. his family calls him fx for frank xavier. the white house keeps track of
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the correspondents, the letters. a couple of times they've singled out a letter from a child making a request. this young man who must have this duty in his own backyard pushed the mower through the rose garden. the president talked to him. he also had a chance to make behind the scenes frank and his father with the president, and we also saw him for a moment in the briefing room where he stood behind the lectern. frank has a lot of ambition to write to the president. this is a lighter fair that they sometimes include where the president gets a favorable photo op with a youngster. >> nothing wrong with that. i just hope my wife isn't watching. she's going to say that kid can moe the lawn better than you can. good to see you. thank you. kelly o'donnell at the white house. still ahead, it is the worst data breach in the history of the world. affecting about half of all americans. most american adults. there's a sweeping new call to
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everything i did circled smaround that cigarette when i started taking the chantix that urge just slowly diminished and it was a great and empowering feeling. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which
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stephanie is not here with me. she's in the virgin islands. she moved to st. john in the u.s. virgin islands today. she's been sending us video of the devastation. she joins me now on the phone. you've had a few more hours to get a feeling of what's been going on. you've been looking around since the sun went up. what are you finding? >> reporter: i wish i could get you the video now. the connection is so poor here. with this part of the world, what they need is to be reconnected. they need information and resources. just as we're about to leave, i ran in to the congresswoman who said to me she's had calls
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already with speaker ryan, with nancy pelosi, and their concern is they get their fair share when the relief comes in for harvey, from irma and the federal government. they need it. you asked me earlier today in the near term what do they need? supplies, food, sweater. in the long term, it's different here than the continental united states. across the virgin islands there's practically no wi-fi connection or cell phone connection, it's essential to make that happen. we were told the biggest change for economic impact improvement in far regions of the world is getting that connectivity. and they need it. my biggest concern and worry walking away is the hotel industry. i just spoke with a woman who works at a hotel, a hotel that has its own water, has its own power system, but still, they don't think they'll be open for a year. we talked about this after
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harvey. if you're an hourly worker, if you work in a restaurant, if you work in a hotel, if that restaurant isn't hope, if the hotel isn't, you won't have work. other people are working feverishly to get their kids off the island indefinitely because they don't think schools will reopen. think about that. you lose your home. you're going through that. sending your kid to another country and people looking to evacuate permanently or at least for the next year or two to find work. in new orleans people left the state and didn't come back. i did also see today just coming in, people returning for the first time to see the city, to see their homes since the hurricane and they're devastated. people who have been here their whole lives saying it's never been like this before. they call it the city of love. you can feel it. >> you were talking to a member
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of congress. >> yes. i ran into her on the street. >> you and i had been talking to her about whether or not she is getting satisfactory military government fema response. is she? >> i think she was being careful in her answer to me. she was cautious. she said people are aware and getting some support, but she did not give me a full-throated answer. i don't see it here. >> all right. stephanie -- >> i see some military presence, but standing at the ports, saw them here at the banks. but in terms of -- they need real organization. at the distribution center where people line up to get food, we see some of it. yesterday a big tanker came distributing everything from medical supplies to generators, and they brought their own sort of military team. but yes, stacey said they're getting support, but she didn't say it with any sort of gusto.
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and i don't see it. >> all right. we'll check in with you later today. thank you for the great reporting from the virgin island. >> but i am disappointed in the attorney general. he should not have recused himself almost immediately after he took office, and if he was going to recuse thhimself, he should have told me before taking office. i would have picked somebody else. i want the attorney general to be much tougher on the leaks from intelligence agencies which are leaking like rarely have they ever leaked before. i told you before i'm very disappointed with the attorney general. but we will see what happens. time will tell. time will tell. >> that was just a month and a half ago. that went on for a long time. the president's frustration with jeff sessions was on full display in july. that series continues with new details on the fury. a new york times report says the
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president told sessions that choosing him to be attorney general was one of the worst decisions he had made calling the former alabama senator an idiot after he recused himself from the russia investigation back in march. the report goes onto say in mar. the report goes on to say that sessions was reactional and later emotional, saying that the way the president addressed him was one of his most humiliating experiences in decades of public life. tillerson told somebody he has never been spoken to in his life the way donald trump has spoken to him. and we heard john kelly saying after the meeting in phoenix, he's never been spoken to the way the president spoke to him. but people don't walk away after he demeans them like that. why did sessions quit?
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>> i think jeff sessions thought he had a unique opportunity to be attorney general. remember, he gave up a senate seat in alabama to join the trump administration, and the issue nearest and dearest to his heart is immigration where he believes he can have a big impact. now, he looks like he may be losing that argument in that debate, but that's one of the things that kept him in there throughout the summer as the president humiliated him in proo private and in public. >> so one wonders. there is a sense in confidence when the president put him in that position. the president went on for weeks in which he said he seemed to not have confidence in jeff sessions. is that rehabilitated now? a does jeff sessions have the power and fortitude that an
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attorney general should have? >> i think this is the president wanting him to go and talking about it. the president had already fired his fbi director and acting attorney general, his acting security adviser, and getting rid of the attorney general they believed would be incredibly damaging. the president has shown that he can survive a lot of things and go forward, but they thought that was too much. with the president it's not as much about confidence as it is about loyalty. he did not think sessions had been loyal to him. that's the most important thing that the president prizes in the people that work for him, and he thought that sessions by recusing had basically turned his back on him. and to the president, it's incredibly important who is running this investigation. remember, he didn't feel comfortable with the way comey was running it, so that is a theme that we've seen throughout, loyalty and who is running this inquiry. >> michael, good to talk to you. thank you for your great reporting as always. michael schmidt from the "new york times." we have new information on the massive, massive equifax
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hack that has an impact on virtually every adult in america. she called for an investigation into the greatest hack ever made, calling for a bill to protect customer information during a reporting freeze. this as mastercard and visa reported the hackers also took more than 200,000 credit card numbers, making it even more likely that your information was stolen. as nearly 40 states' attorneys general took the breach now, chuck schumer took to the floor saying what action they had to take immediately, including a full bore step-down if nothing is done in the next week. by the way, we haven't heard from the ceo. we've invited the ceo to appear on nbc and msnbc. no dice. joining me now is congressman warren davidson and mike licht is joining us as well. he's a consumer advocate for the
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u.s. public research group. congressman, i'm going to start with you. i don't know how many different ways i can say how outraged americans should be. no matter where you are on a political spectrum, you have no choices about credit reporting. nobody chooses equifax. nobody chooses the information that goes to equifax and everything about me they have, they profit off of. then they lost my stuff and they made me try to swear off some rights in order to find out about it. it just doesn't get worse than this. >> sadly, it could get worse, and we need to make sure that it doesn't. frankly, these guys have been very irresponsible and their actions immediately after the discovery of this have created a lot of suspicion. i heard you earlier saying that you've extended an invitation to their ceo. i'm positive he's getting lots of invitations, including soon from the house of financial services committee. we are going to begin with hearings on the regulators and find out what has gone on.
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obviously, we're concerned about cybersecurity and we're concerned about privacy, but we're especially concerned about fraud here. so there is a lot of things, there is a lot of fact patterns that have become public so far that give a lot of suspicion on when this was discovered, the amount of stock that was traded after the breach occurred, and then the gap between when it was discovered and disclosed. >> you know, your colleague, congressman greg walden, who is the president of the energy committee, had this to say. >> is this a precursor to more regulation? >> it may be. it's a balance between protecting other data and worse events. >> congressman, you can't stop stupidity, you can't even legislate against it, but you can sure hold people accountable for it. >> there are a lot of americans who think there is too much regulation, there are some who
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think there should be more. but financial regulation is not an area that a lot of americans actually want reduced. i get that there are real things that some banks and businesses think hinder their ability to do things. but there's actually a bill in the house right now that reduces the penalties on these credit reporting agencies, that reduces their liability when they've done things that are bad. are you going to take a look at whether or not we should be making things easier for these credit reporting agencies rather than harder? >> i think the choice act is a very good bill. i think one of the key provisions of it is it increases the penalties for fraud. so this is the particular concern here, and then fundamentally, there are other committees dealing with cybersecurity. i think there are a lot of folks that are very anxious to find out what's going on. and aside from congress and aside from what people would think of normally of the justice department, these guys are regulated by the security exchanges commission, the federal trade commission and now
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the consumer financial protection bureau, which has some legal and structural problems with how it's organized, and that's not me saying that, that's the courts. >> congressman, thank you for joining us. warren davidson is the republican from ohio. i want to talk to mike licht. he's a consumer advocate for the research public advocate research group. putting aside the stock sale stuff, the regulatory stuff and even how the breach happened, this is -- there is nobody virtually who is not affected by this, and there is no way unless you're a billionaire that you can get through life without the information that these credit reporting agencies provide to everyone you need to rent from, everything you need to buy, every loan you take, every credit card you apply for. sometimes when you get a job, you get a credit check done. this reaches into everybody's lives. what do you do about it? >> yeah, ali, you're absolutely right. this is so bad in so many ways. what you do is you get copies of your credit report at
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annualcreditreport.com and you place credit freezes at all three credit bureaus. we think equifax should pay for all those freezes, but don't wait on them for that. >> people do this. what's the effect on them. you put credit freezes, if you're the hacker, you can't take out loans and buy cars in my name, but it also means when i need to use credit, it's going to be a few more steps. >> right. all you have to do is temporarily lift the freeze when you want to actually apply for credit yourself. credit freezes block banks, credit card companies, lenders from viewing your credit report, and if they can't see that, they're not going to open the account, so that's how you actually shut the door on the i.d. thieves opening fake accounts in your name. >> mike, one of the things that people have been talking about is there have now been so many social security numbers stolen that maybe we need a new number, maybe we need to start again on social security or have is some other kind of identifier?
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>> i don't know about that, but absolutely what people can do is place the credit freeze at all three credit bureaus and that's really what we're recommending that people do. they're free right now in only seven states. we're working on making that the case in other places like massachusetts and illinois, but really, congress should step up and make them free for everybody in the whole country. >> mike, good to talk to you. thank you so much for doing this. mike licht is a consumer advocate at the u.s. public research interest group. we're going to stay on top of this story until we get to the bottom of all of it. when they knew, why they didn't tell us, who sold the stock, when they sold the stock, what they knew when they sold the stock and whether the expense you have to go through to keep your credit safe is going to be reimbursed by equifax. i promise you personally i'm not letting this story go. i do have to let the show go, though, because i'm out of time and it's someone else's show coming up. thank you for watching "she
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willry & ruhle." i'll be back at 3:00 p.m. join me this saturday 12:30 eastern time for velshi & ruhle weekend edition. right now it's time for andrea mitchell on "andrea mitchell reports." terror in london. dozens of commuters injured when an improvised bomb did he teeto a packed subway car in an upper class residential neighborhood. >> the services are working to establish the full consequences of this cowardly attack and identify all those responsible. >> that is an absolutely terrible thing. in fact, i'm going to call the prime minister right now. >> reporter: have you been briefed by intelligence about the attack? >> yes, i have. on numerous things happening, including north korea. and growing threat, north korea firing another missile over japan, taking tensions to new heights.

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