tv Dateline Extra MSNBC November 5, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
welcome back to "kasie dc." the president is traveling in asia. we expect to see him coming up soon, but first we want to bring you back to our top story. there are now vigils under way for the victims of today's attack. it was the most deadly mass shooting in a place of worship in american history. 26 people are confirmed dead, including the shooter, after an attack on a church in sutherland springs, texas, a small town outside of san antonio. the victims range between the ages of 5 and 72ier. one of the victims was annabelle pomeroy. she was the daughter of the church's pastor frank and his wife sherry.
they were both traveling when this instance unfolded. the gun mast is identified as devin patrick kelley. record checks come that kelley was previously a member of the air force until he was discharged. nbc news is working to confirm what kind of discharge he received. that could tell us whether or not he was able to buy the gun that was used legally. the gunman walk into first baptist church and berth gan firing a semiautomatic weapon while wearing a bulletproof vest. texas governor greg abbott tried to offer soothing words in the wake of the tragedy. the tragedy, of course, is worsened by the fact it occurred in a church, aplace of worship, where these people were innocently gunned down. we mourn their loss, but we support their family members. we appreciate the first
responders and what they have done to help respond to this challenge. they are continuing in their efforts, as they put all pieces of a complex pussed together to try to provide their community all the answers they need a deserve. >> president trump addressed the tragedy while speak in tokyo. >> we join hands, lock arms, and through the tears and through the sadness we stand strong, oh so strong. my administration will provide its full support to the great state of texas and all local authorities investigating this horrible crime. president obama tweeted just a bit ago -- we grieve with all
the families in sutherland springs harmed by this act of hate treads and osteowith the survivors they recover, and may got also grant all of us the wid com to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst. as we mentioned before, congressman was born not tar from this location. thank you for talking to us. talk to us about this community. it's a very small place. it seems like it would be heart to overstate the impact of 25 people dies in just a few -- >> this is a rural part of texas. it's a conservative part of texas culturally.
it's also people from austin and san antonio who have moved away from the hustle and bustle of the big cities, and really have a quiet life and existence there. so, of course a mass murder is a big deal anywhere, but even any kind of serious crime, other crime would be a big deal. this is a neighboring county. evident the peanut festival and the strawberry festival. these are very tight-knit communities. >> and we are still learning about exactly what brought this gunman. he was from a few counties over. can you kind of explain for our
viewers, sun you're. how star away is comal county. >> it's slightly northeast of san antonio up i-35 on the way to austin. wilson county is a bit southeast of san antonio, sandwich between two major highways. i would imagine it would have probably taken him between 45 minutes and an hour to get there, depending on where he lived. three generations of texas have been haunted by mass murder. in 1966, we had the u.t. tower shooting. when i was a senior in high school in 1991, we had what at that time was the largest mass murder in u.s. history, which
was the shooting in kaline, texas at luby's, and now this generation has experienced this. >> one thing that -- you saw a bit of this in the second of president obama's tweets, the idea that thoughts and prayers are no longer enough and concrete action must be taken. you've been a member of the house, you've seen some of these debates unfold. we have spend the last several weeks covering tragedy after tragedy. there was las vegas, there was what happened in new york when a man used a pickup truck to run over pedestrians along the west side highways. and yet it seems when it comes to a gun crime like this one, it seems to be a conversation in congress and then nothing changes, even if there is
widespread support for, for example, background checks in the way of newtown. do you think it will be different this time? >> i hope so. unfortunately we're gripped by this idea, first, that the second amendment is absolute, and also by the nra's subtle argument that puts us into this false choice, this binary choice, where if you're going to pass a gun law, it has to make sure that it prevents every gun death. if it doesn't prevent every gun death, we shouldn't pass any law. the fact is there are two strategies here that we need to take on. first, we need to do everything we can for prevention. that means supporting background check legislation, and americans overwhelmingly support that, but also doing what some republicans have talked about doing, even though they're not doing it now, which is increase support for mental health funding. their proposed judgment slashes mental health funding, doing
away with. aca would hurt mental health, but the other part is we have to face the fact when we look at massacres there have been folks who have legally purchased guns and gone out and killed many people. even if you put the prevention measures in place, there will be people who legally get guns and go on and kill people. that's why you have to do something to limit the damage of these firearms. that's where you get into an assault rifle ban or limiting the number of bullets in a cartridge. it's both of these things that we have to work on in congress. >> texas congressman joaquin castro, thank you for your time tonight. we appreciate it. >> thank you. let's go to colonel jack jacobs. thank you for taking time out of your sunday night to talk to us. i want to ask you specifically about this shooter's military background. we know the air force has
confirmed that devin kelley was a member of their service. he served in logistics readiness at hole oman air force base in new mexico starting in 2010. he was discharged. they're not sure yell of the nature of the discharge. pete williams was explaining he was trying to figure out if there was a dishonorable discharge, that would mean he would not be able to obtain this weapon legally. >> in order to get a dishonorable discharge, you have to be convicted in the military for a crime for which you can be imprisoned for more than six months. it has to be a general court-martial, not a summary or a special court-martial. in order ton a disafter which you serve your sentence and given f. would that be the
equivalent of a -- is that an accura accurate. >> no, no, it's 100% accurate, though there are other articles in the uniform code of military justice that are crimes in the military, but they're not necessarily felonies in civilian life. nevertheless those people who wind up getting general court-martials and sent to prison for more than since months, the only ones i can -- i can't remember any in mire experience that weren't felonies both inside and outside the military. >> colonel, what is the kind of training that this man would have received in the military? clearly this is a weapon that can cause the kind of casualty rates that we are seeing in texas, the economy automatic
rifle that we used. would they have been taught how to use that as a member of the air force? >> yeah. he would go through boot camp. every service members, you go there basic trainings, yes, he would have been -- >> i want to expand this conversation to our panel. sitting on set with me, msnbc national security analyst evelyn farkas, ken delaneyen, who actually started his career in san antonio. national political reporter for axios jonathan swan, and john
laughlin. sir, i want to start with you. what is your sense of how federal authorities will approach this, and you notice you worked on the intelligence side. what will they do to look for a terrorism connection or anything overseas in this regard? i'm sure thee checking to make sure. >> of course, the first question, and it may have been settled already, who has jurisdiction here. the president, as you heard offered federal assistance to local authority. at some point we will get our hands on evidence connected to this man. so all in all cases, they will be looking at they cell phones, if had a computer, talking to the neighbors, just as we did in the event in new york, what is the background of this individual? the instinct you have right at the beginning here is that
probably not connected to terrorism, based on not very much at all, except that it's happening in a small southern town at a church. it doesn't feel like a terrorist act, but could be. >> in the case of new york city that happened quickly. >> and we don't have the identity of the assailant? >> well, we do know that the shooter in this case was devin kelley, previously a member of the air force. >> of course, yes, and he lived in a nearby county. we know that he had relatives who lived near the church, but we're not sure of any connection to this town, and it seems like that's the next step. motive here. >> exactly. and i think the question of how he got the gun. it's being widely reported, those nbc news has not confirmed it, that he was court-martialed and dishonorably discharged, but as pete williams was saying,
there was a question whether he could have purchased it before it happened. he still would be ineligible to possess it, but it's unlikely that law enforcement trying to take an i a an assault rifle -- that will be an interesting. did people know this? >> and clearly we know he was wearing a bulletproof vest, he was prepared to go into the situation, though we're learning of the details -- we know he died of a gunshot wound. there was an altercation with a neighbor who had lived across the street, picked up a gun, at least fired it at him, but he may have had a second weapon in the car. >> i think it does -- the fact he had service in the air force, the fact that we've had service members deployed repeatedly, to iraq, afc, obviously afghanistan is our longest war in american history now, in modern history.
that does raise some questions of his mental state, whether the military was aware he had problems, if he was indeed court-martialed, why, so that does raise a question whether there was awareness on the part of the authorities, how they handled him, whether he sought any help, whether he received help, all these questions, and then of course how you protect the civilian community. >> i want to change gears just a bit, because we are trying to cover two breaking stories at once. the president is on his trip to asia, that's why we are on the air an hour longer than originally bland. you can see him there at the imperial palace with the japan, with the emperor, and also with t the empros, though we don't see her necessarily in that shot.
addressing business leaders, having to top those remarking with words of condoledens and a discussion of the shooting in texas, i should amend my statement, that melania and the empress were in the frame. >> they've been talking about with this trip, mr. mcloughlin, your view of how the president has been proceeding, especially around north korea. this is clearly -- this is -- our strongest ally on this trip, but a high-stakes meeting with president xi coming up, and a lot of questions how 'impressively we are still pursuing diplomacy. >> well, i think this is a very important trip to the president and if the country. there is two things going on. first is how did the region perceive him? what's their impression of him?
right now i would describe their view of him as somewhere between confusion and concern, and maybe obsession at the same time. frankly i think they see him more as a movie star than as a president, is the way i think they see him. s if you look at the they show rather startling contrast, whereas in 2015, 88 percent of south koreans said they trusted the president to make the right decision, only about 17% now. the contrast is similar in japan. so, i think on -- so that's the first thing. the impression that he makes is very important, but then the second thing, what you're referring to, is there's very concrete things he has to
accomplish. on north korea, he really does have to get diplomacy on track. everyone talks about north korea as having lousy options. diplomacy is the least lousy of those options at this point. >> jonathan, is it your sense that there really is a good-faith diplomatic effort being driven by the president? it almost seems like you see it from rex tillerson, but not necessarily from the president himself. >> the interesting things is the difference between the public receipt riggs and the private receipt ricks. when you talk to senior administration officials, it really does son -- they don't i don't believe they really do have a plan from stopping north korea. i still believe their thinking is this is not a suicidal
regime, and we will shoot whatever they fire at us out of the sky and that's a deterrence and containment strategy. that was what i'm picking up. they have to disagree pulley for the region, for america, but that seems to be the only -- >> do you agree? >> i hope you're right, because every once in a while i actually have a private conversation that makes me worried. so without attributing that -- inside or outside? >> inside. i still hear this, they cannot be allowed to get that capability, the capability to basically hit the united states mainland, the west coast primary. >> and mcmaster kind of says that -- >> i'm not saying who i talk to -- >> publicly. i'm note talking about privately. >> i think privately sometimes you also hear this hard receipt ricks, and that concerns me.
i agree with what you're implying, which is the right way to do is deterrence, containment and focus on the diplomacy to make sure that it sticks. >> in their public comments they're all about denuclearizing the peninsula. hard to know how they'll get there. it's conceivable to have the goal and to plan on getting there through diplomacy. it's just going to take a long time. in other words, if you look back at the history of this, the only time we got them to move back from a nuclear commitment is through sitting down around the table. he he really -- people have talked about how much do you need china? he needs china on this. he really needs china on this. not that they will push some sort of button and get it done, but we don't have, the chinese and we have a way to arctic late why it's bad --
>> do you really believe you can completely denuclearize that. >> over time it's possible, but i'm talking a long time if i was design ago plan, you would go through a freeze, go through gradual reduction, trading a lot of things for that. they would have a very high proo is, and you might not get there, but the process would be worth going through, as opposed to the alternative. >> it does seem like a long shot. we have to leave this conversation here. coming up, we'll continue to stay on the breaking news, and still to come, my interview with chuck schumer, and at 10:00, a bombshell new report we have barely even touched on tonight by nbc on business ties between a member of the president's cabinet and russians in vladimir putin's inner circle. don't miss it. it's the sleep number semi-annual sale
ever since we moved out, we've been hearing gunshots. it feels like a war zone sometimes. one time we could hear the bullets whizzing by our house. sometimes we hear loud explosions, make from targets or something like that. >> that was a neighbor of the man now said to be dead. he's accused of killing more than 20 people in texas. the latest on the deadly mass shootic there. 26 people killed, through the shooter at the first baptist church, just outside of san antonio. that number confirmed by governor abbott in a conference earlier today. the ages range from 5 years old to 72. tonight vigiling are being held for the victims. the gunman has been identified as 26 years old ditch patrick kellie, his house broadband
searched by law enforcement officials. nbc learned that kellie fired a semiautomatic weapon wearing a bulletproof vest. he was a member of the u.s. air force from 2010 until he was discharged. we don't know if he discharge was dishonorable or not. that would help us decide if the gun he had was purchased legally. president trump addressed the attack, saying, quote, these are dark times. joining me is tony poletski from "the austin statesman journal." thank you for joining us. >> reporter: that vigil wrapped up just a little while ago. the crowd has begun to disperse, but you can imagine unbelievable grief here tonight by the people
of sutherland springs. one of the big questions tonight is who? theft to know, you know, people are desperately trying to figure out who among their family members, their friends, are among the living and among the dead here tonight. >> and where are law enforcement officials providing that information to families? we have started to hear some names trickle out and identified -- but otherwise we haven't had anybody formally identifying the victims. >> you know, i can assume not, because one of the ways we know that is we have continued to see family members coming to the church here trying to ask
enforcement in they're families members. this was severity hours ago i was interviewing a woman who came here. she said her fall is a faithful -- she was here surrounded by other family members she had been trying to call him, and that he had not been able -- had not taken her call. thoughs asked her what she thought was happening. to just a lot of grief and shock. tony, thank you very much for taking some time out of this. this will be affecting your
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welcome back. it's shaping up to be another intense week on capitol hill. democrats are trying to figure out how to handle republicans' tax reform proposal. at the same time they're dealing with their own sort of civil war in their own ranks. i talked to senator chuck schumer earlier this week about the coming fight and how democrats can find a way to win this year and beyond. i want to ask you about the balancing act you have going right now. you have wrapped both progressives -- and moderate democrats -- >> maybe one day moderate republicans, too. >> joe manchin, bernie sanders, elizabeth warner. when i asked you the other day if you agreed with bob corker whether president trump was debasing the country, you wouldn't go that far, but some are demanding that of you. >> i don't think so.
our caucus has been so unified, there hasn't been a single major vote. >> maybe tax reform. >> let's wait and see, but i don't think so. that's because we are unified on mick issues. the diplomating we put together an economic plan. i believe we're going to be united on the tax bill. that's a pretty good indication, and we have amazing unity in our caucus. >> do you think -- should be a member of the democratic party? >> look, the bottom line is we need a presidential candidate who is going to fight for the middle class. >> it doesn't matter if they're a democrat or not? >> donald trump ran ran as a populist, but governing as a hard-right person.
we have to keep in touch with the middle class. i won't get into bernie sanders, i know what you're getting at. he caucuses can our party. he's been a valuable member. he has a big following, so i'm not going to draw red lines in the sand, i want the democratic party to be united. b, we have to do things for the middle class, and our republican colleagues, with this -- their budget -- >> they don't want to do. >> i have read her book, i don't know the details. i won't make a judgment on that. >> do you have any concerns about the dnc being involved in -- >> i didn't follow it. i i will read it.
>> bernie sanders has never complained to you before? >> he's complained all the time. >> do you agree with him? do you think his complaints are legitimate? >> i've never mixed in much with the dnc. i like tom perez, we work together, but he does his thing, i do my thing. >> i'm going to put you down as a nonanswer on that. >> oh, really? >> you and donald trump come from the same state. >> yes. >> difficult boroughs. >> very important distinction. >> in new york it is. >> you have a sense of the man in a way that maybe some of your colleagues don't, maybe some order parties of the country don't. what do you think it will take to beat him? >> i think he's in trouble right now fblgs with 37%, 38% popularity, it's a hard road to get reelected. there are two things that will hurt him badly.
despite his rhetoric, he's abandoned the middle class. i want to him in the first few weeks, i said mr. president-elect, you ran as a populist, if you continue that way, we can work together on some things very well, but if you embrace the hard right, the vice president pence, koch brothers kind of things, you'll be a failure as president. so far he's embraced them. but second, the kinds of things he does, the way he tweets and calls names, changes his mind, is so erratic has gotten in the way of him getting things done and is bad for america. i think lots of people who voted for him last time see that now. i think he's got real trouble. >> is there anyone in the
democratic party who has a penalty as big's donald trump's? >> oh, you will see we can win back the senate in the 2018, but i think we can, but on 2020, let 1,000 flowers bloom. let's get as many people out there and let the crucible of the campaign determine who the good ones are. >> do you think president trump should be impeached on what we know? >> i think it would be premature. i'm glad someone is pointing out the foibles of the trump administration, but ith it would be premature. i think mueller has to go forward unimpeded. if he were to find that the president had broken the law, i think everyone would maybe the decision. so there's a lot there.
different jobs in washington. >> it's interesting some of the people that are most animating or elizabeth warren, that are the same age as chuck schumer. and ken delany, in the timing of this donna brazil book, i think some democrats are besides themselves with fury that she's chosen to po anger these wounds. it's also, you know, very much angered clinton staffers who bonded together and started writing letters and say, look -- we don't recognize this campaign. >> that's really clear. deep divisions. i was intrigued by chuck schumer to say it's proo mature. as you know, i spend most of my days covers the trump/russia investigation. i hear from many people that think there are already impeachable offenses. >> i think that will be a litmus
test. senator schumer had a lot more to say, and you which check our whole interview online. we apologize we had to cut that short tonight. up next, the latest in texas. it's election day on tuesday in virginia and new jersey. we'll dig into one of the key races to watch. that's next on "kasie dc." when heartburn hits fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum tums chewy bites.
he was so good to me. i'm his only daughter. that's how i got all the attention. i was spoiled. he was a hard worker, and very, very good man. very good. >> and i pray, i pray that he was not one of the victims that didn't make it. i prayer that he was injured and he's okay. >> that was the daughter of a
member of the congregation from the first baptist xhurch in sutherland springs, texas. she doesn't know if her father died or survived. the attack that took 26 lives. at this honey we still can't say for sure what happened to him. the victims' names have not been released. joining us is clint van zandt. here we are again talking through another tragedy. >> again. >> talk a bit about -- we're starting to learn more about social media about who this person was, devin kelley. we know he stopped across the street at the gas station, he was wearing a bullet poof vest, and at the maven dishonorably discharged. where does this investigation go? >> one thing we have had her we about 325 million americans and well over 300 million guns.
unfortunater unfortunati the laws won't net keep the -- and keep -- the investigation kins. she was in the air force, he was court-martialed, bad conduct discharge allegedly incarcerated by the air force, and then kicked out of the military. showing this weapon, making statements about the gun, and mae statements, this is currenting -- this is a narcissistic individual who has an incontemplated opinion of himself, and maybe an insult
accumulator. someone who has challenges in life, but unfortunately today people instead of looking in the mirror and saying my life is my fault, they say my life is your fault. we're also told perhaps he has a direct connection with this church, a relative perhaps by marriage attended this churge. the fright thing thing is i've read reports that only about 50 to 100 people attend this church. we know almost 50 were shot. that means if not everyone, at least every other person to include multiple children were killed by this individual who appears to have carried out some type of murderous fantasy, holding everybody else responsible instead of himself. it's a story we here over and over again. clint, we heard earlier in the show from one of his
neighbors who was quoted as saying oftentimes he would hear gunfire or explosions coming from the house next door. >> i think we're going to find he may be a wannabe. we're told he was responsible for logistics in the air force, bud it wouldn't have required him to be around weapons much, yet we find him dressed in black. ballistic vest, like some type of kung fu or special forces warriors similar to the shooter in the colorado movie theater, a fantasy in his own mind that he might have been some type of warrior, where in fact he's just a terrible kill er. we are learning that kelley received a bad contact discharge
from the air force. he was sentenced to 12 months confinement, demoted, and discharged from the air force. "kasie dc" is back right after this. so we sent that sample off to ancestry. my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. whstuff happens. old shut down cold symptoms fast with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels.
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welcome back back. you are looking at live pictures of president trump with the prime minister abe of japan. he is embarking on the first leg of his foreign trip. we will be following and monitoring. we are not expecting to hear remarks from the president at this stop, but we will keep you posted on any development there is. while we have had a difficult night here on kasie dc we want
to bring you a story that we want to cover, the start of the election season. the first wave is tuesday in virginia, where democrats should be ahead. but all of a sudden things have gotten tight. ed gillespie is appearing to make up some ground. >> reporter: the rolling hills of virginia, the backdrop for a race between two seemingly mild man erred men. >> ralph northam weak on ms 13, putting families at risk. is this what donald trump and ed gillespie mean by the american dream. >> reporter: but one year after
donald trump's trip to the white house, they've seen it seep into theirs. >> reporter: there's a photo of donald trump, ed gillespie and white nationalist. do you think ed gillespie is sympathetic? >> he's had over 70 days to stand up and denounce our president for not calling out these supremacists for who they were. >> he has long advocated for a more inclusive republican party and called what happened in charlottesville the result of neo-nazi actions. and now adds like these have taken the election to an unexpected place. donald trump tweeting in his favor.
>> we were brought up, that is a part of our history and it needs to be taught. >> but gillespie has walked a fine line. he's yet to appear with the president and is reluctant to answer questions about him. >> would you go on the campaign trail with president trump, sir? >> the question nationally heading into the 2018 midterms is whether republican be candidate like gillespie can unite the voters like here in virginia along with the more traditional conservatives and independents to pull off a victory. >> virginia didn't go for trump. will it go for gillespie on tuesday? >> we are hoping. >> it's also a race for the democrats. the party has lost millions of dollars on congressional special elections across the maps this year. tightening polls have brought
president obama out of retirement. >> democrats sometimes you all getting a little sleepy. >> democratic turnout is going to be important. the african-american vote is important. >> but north am may be at risk with some minority voters. they may stop funding him because of comments on sanctuary cities. >> if that bill comes to my desk, andy, i sure will. i've always been opposed to sanctuary cities. >> will african-americans get out to vote on tuesday? >> i think they will. i think he has made his message known. i think he's done a good job. >> on tuesday, democrats have a chance to turn the resistance into a victory and for republicans they're ready to prove a fractured party won't
stop them for winning. >> great work there by vaughn hillyard. it'll be telling to see where that race ends up with gillespie in a position to win a race that a lot of people thought he shouldn't win. i want to end on the breaking news we've been talking about. joining me now is nbc's courtney kube. i want to get a thought from you. the military status of the man accused in tonight's shooting it sounds like you have a better understanding of his background? >> we do. he served for about four years in the u.s. air force, he was serving in logistics and we know he was stationed at lest one base, in hollowman air force base. he was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts of assault, one on his spouse and one on his
child. he had confinement for 12 months and reduced in grade to the lowest possible grade and received a bad disconduct charge. it's generally issued out of a court by a court-martial we know he did serve in the air force and he had this court-martial, and he served in jail. he was confined for at least 12 months pch. >> we were talking earlier with pete about what this kind of discharge would mean as far as whether or not he would then be allowed to legally buy firearms and it seems to be a question between a bad conduct discharge and a dishonorable discharge. can you shed light on that? >> reporter: a dishonorable discharge is worse than a bad conduct. with a dishonorable you're generally not allowed to purchase a fairearm. it's not immediately clear, because we just learned this in
in the last few minutes, whether he would have the ability with a bad disconduct or not. he was charged with assault so it's something we're trying to get clarification at on. >> at what point do you think we might have a better understanding of what training he might have received for using the weapons. it sounds like he may have learned by going through basic training in the air force, the skills that ultimately led to this tragedy we've seen unfold today. >> he may have been had basic training. we don't have his service records yet which tell us where he served, what he was doing. just given the amount of time he was served and the fact he was stationed in logistics, i wouldn't guess that he had any overseas deployments, but he had basic training, that would have included weapons training but
without a full-service record we don't know what kind of speci specialized training he had gone through for the air force. >> i know you mentioned this when we first started this conversation, but it was two counts of assault against his wife and one against his child. do we have anymore information about this? >> that's all we know so far. we know he was court-martialed so he was tried under the uniform code of military justice, ucmj, it was two counts one for an assault on his spouse and one on their child. we don't know anything about the age of the child or anything like that. it's all things we're going to try to figure out in the next days. >> thank you for your work late on this sunday night. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> uz that does it for this extended edition of kasie dc. thank you to our panel. we will be back next week at 7:00 eastern. coming up a bombshell new report
by nbc on business ties between a member of the president's cabinet and russians in vladimir putin's inner circle. that's next and that's all for this edition of kasie dc. that's all from washington. >> hello and welcome to "on assignment" we're in new york because a major story we've been working on just broke. we have new evidence this evening that our secretary of commerce, wilbur ross, is in business with a company that has close tied to vladimir putin. that's a big deal, of course. we'll have all the details on that for you in a minute. first i want to