tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC December 1, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
they always know more than they say they know. now it's time for "the last word." kushner to go ahead and as a private citizen negotiate on behalf of the united states with foreign countries and where was president elect donald trump when that conversation was going on? did he hear jared kushner say that? did he tell jared kushner to say that? >> and we've got these two different points that are raised in the statement of the offense and in the plea deal. we got that discussion that you're talking about there, which is reportedly jared kushner advising flynn to have those conversations about that u.n. resolution. then we've also got flynn
talking to mar-a-lago, talking to somebody from the presidential transition team about his conversations with the russian ambassador over sanctions and nbc news is reporting the person he was talking to on that matter was mcfarland and the reason that ends up being important is because whale it is conceivable that mike flynn might have thought he had to answer to jared kushner on the u.n. resolution thing, there is no chance on earth that he ever thought he had to answer to fox news personality mcelderry mcfarland, it wasn't to get instruction but the person that nbc news reports she was staffing at mar-a-lago when the conversations were happening is the president himself. flynn has a lot to say and i have a feeling the prosecutors know almost all of it already? >> they wouldn't have gone through the deal. they first of all get a very clear outline of it in the proffer from his lawyers as we know and before they get to this stage today, they have to sit with him and get it all down and michael flynn risks committing another crime if he lies to them when he's telling them what he's willing to testify to. and so this is the scariest night yet in the white house. >> yeah, you know, the agreement
-- paul fishman was the u.s. attorney from the bridge gate case, talking to him about that negotiation, he said what really stood out for him in the court filings today was how there was basically no room to breathe for mike flynn in these filings. what he's agreed to cooperate for and about is limitless and the only thing that he's given a break on in terms of knowing what his fate is is on a very tiny slice of what they might conceivably charge him for. he's got to cooperate up to taking a polygraph if they want him to and engaging in target operations on behalf of the prosecutors. he has to do everything and the only thing they promised is
anything they want. >> his son is sitting there liable for criminal charges if michael flynn doesn't deliver. >> we, i think as a country, it's important right now to watch for how the president weigs his pardon power and not just push other people but individually personally try to end this by going after muller and if he does either of those things this is becomes a very different situation for the country. >> well, it's a little too late. you've got someone charged with
that crime and that case is filed. i think the president is learning tonight if he hadn't learned already how limited those powers are when it applies to this case. rachel, thanks very much. former prosecutor, bet si and nbc's kendall will join us on the flynn guilty plea and the muller investigation and the turn it has taken today and also we'll be joined to discuss what's happening with the republican tax cut bill on the senate floor tonight and if it pasts the senate tonight, what will have to happen to pass again in the house and senate in identical form because right now they are different. that's what it will take, at least one more big round for it to get to the president's desk for him to sign it. but first, it is too late. sometime today an enraged and
very likely panicked president of the united states no doubt had to be told that it is too late to use his ultimate power. the only seemingly absolute power granted at the president of the united states in the constitution, power to pardon. a close reading of the constitution shows that there is an exception to the pardon power written right into the constitution. he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the united states except in cases of impeachment and so no, the president cannot pardon himself to avoid impeachment. the president cannot pardon the vice president to avoid impeachment of the vice president if for example michael flynn were to offer testimony to special prosecutor now that he's cooperating that would implicate donald trump or mike pence in crimes.
but today, president trump had to be schooled in the uselessness of his pow tore pardon michael flynn. before michael flynn was allowed to plead guilty to the felony of lying to the fbi in exchange for a light sentence or possibly no sentence at all, michael flynn had to tell special prosecutor robert mueller everything michael flynn knows. that begin with his lawyers making what they call a proffer, the legal term for what they call the special prosecutor what michael flynn, their client could tell them if the special prosecutor offers michael flynn a plea deal. before robert mueller and his team heard a word out of the mouth of michael flynn, they had already heard from michael flynn's lawyers and what michael flynn had to say, something very helpful to the prosecutors and then when they questioned michael flynn, michael flynn
knew lying to them would be another crime that he could be charged with so robert mueller took in everything flynn had to say about donald trump, donald trump junior, jared kushner, jared kushner's wife, ivanka trump and jeff sessions and paul manafort and everyone else working in the trump and only after michael flynn every question honestly to the satisfaction was he offered a deal announced today in federal court or michael flynn showed up to plea guilty after walking through spectators on the sidewalk shouting lock him up in echo of michael flynn having said this about hillary clinton at the republican convention last year. >> lock her up. lock her up. >> lock her up! lock her up! lock her up! >> you guys are good.
right. exactly right. there is nothing wrong with that. you know why? you know why we're saying that? if i, a guy that knows this business, if i did a tenth, a tenth of what she did, i would be in jail today. >> a guy who knows this business. it is too late to parten michael flynn because he's told the special prosecutor everything he knows and for president trump, the whole point of pardoning michael flynn would be to save him from having to tell the special prosecutor everything he knows but even that would not have worked. the fbi has known pretty much all year that michael flynn committed the crimes that he admitted to today. if donald trump had pardoned
michael flynn on the day that he fired him in february, that would have done donald trump absolutely no good. that simply would have met michael flynn would have been forced to tell his story to the special prosecutor even sooner. if the president pardoned michael flynn on the day he fired him, he would have saved michael flynn from being indicted and pleading guilty today but a person cannot -- but a pardon cannot save you from having to testify under oath after being subpoenaed to robert mueller's grand jury. if michael flynn had been pardoned when he was -- and then sworn in as a witness for robert mueller's grand jury, he would have no fifth amendment rights because then michael flynn would not be able to incriminate hill himself with his testimony because he was pardoned so the problem with issuing a pardon to michael flynn early in the year
that would have freed michael flynn up to immediately become an under oath witness for the special prosecutor knowing that the special prosecutor could still indict michael flynn for any perjury he might commit while testifying to the grand jury and so today was probably the day when donald trump was finally told by his lawyers that he cannot pardon his way out of this investigation and it seems very clear that the trump lawyers do not try to give donald trump any of the bad news before they absolutely have to. it even seems that donald trump's lawyers try to communicate with him and only with him in the press releases that they issue about this investigation because only donald trump could believe a word of those press releases. here is what the white house lawyer ty cobb said today. a former national security advisor for 25 days during the trump administration and former obama administration official entered a guilty plea to a single count of making a false statement to the fbi.
the false statements involved mirror the false statements to white house officials, which resulted in his resignation in february of this year. nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than mr. flynn, the conclusion of this phase of this special counsel demonstrates again that the special counsel is moving with all deliberate speed and clears the way for a prompt and reasonable conclusion and so that is clearly what ty cobb is trying to say to the president today in the oval office. ty cobb is just showing us his notes of what he tried to tell the president to calm him down today. only donald trump. maybe donald trump junior and sure, eric trump and other people who spent too much time in the bubble could believe anything and ty cob's statement today.
a former obama official was president trump's idea. michael flynn is the lynch pin in a case of obstruction of justice against donald trump. michael flynn may have told the special prosecutor that donald trump knew that michael flynn was illegally negotiating on behalf of the united states with foreign countries while still a private citizen working on the trump transition team and told him donald trump ordered him to do that directly or indirectly. we do know that the acting attorney general sally yates made emergency trips to tell white house counsel that michael flynn was in big trouble with the fbi. she discussed the possibility of michael flynn being prosecuted for what she was reporting to the white house. she was in the white house discussing the possibility of michael flynn being prosecuted
for what he had done and donald trump chose to do absolutely nothing about that, nothing at all and then "the washington post", days later revealed michael flynn and the white house had been publicly and michael flynn had no contacts with foreign governments other than to exchange please sentries and after "the washington post" exposed that, only then did president trump fire michael flynn, allowed michael flynn to call resignation 18 days after the white house was told by sally yates that michael flynn had been caught up in an fbi criminal investigation, 18 days. what were they going to do? was president trump going to do if the washington post did not report that? the day after president trump fired michael flynn, knowing michael flynn was under investigation, donald trump asked the director of the fbi james comey to let the investigation go.
>> this is the president speaking, you're letting this go, letting flynn go. he's a good guy. i hope you can let this go. those are his exact words, correct? >> the reason, i took it as a direction. as the president of the united states with me alone saying i hope this, i took it as this is what he wants me to do. i didn't obey that. >> that's the clear line of the obstruction of justice case against donald trump and now there is one more fact we know about michael flynn. he was guilty.
the president of the united states was trying to stop an fbi investigation into someone that worked for him, someone who was guilty and when that fbi -- and when that fbi investigation did not stop, the president then fired the director of the fbi and when he talked about his reasons for firing the director of the fbi he said this. >> what i did is i was going to fire comey, my decision. >> you made the decision before they came -- >> i was going to fire comey. there is no good time to do it, by the way. they -- >> because in your letter you said i accepted their recommendation. you made the decision. >> i was going to fire regardless. >> he made a recommendation. he's highly respected. very smart guy. democrats like him. he made a recommendation but regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. >> he said he was thinking about the russia investigation when he fired james comey.
special prosecutors investigation has now landed just one person away from donald trump. michael flynn is that person, one person away from donald trump. donald trump has to be more worried about the muller investigation than anything he has ever worried about in his entire life. because donald trump doesn't understand the law himself, he may be wondering tonight if he said anything to michael flynn that constitutes a crime. donald trump might be wondering tonight if he ordered michael flynn to do anything that is a crime and donald trump is definitely wondering tonight exactly what michael flynn has already told robert mueller. jeff sessions is wondering tonight what michael flynn has already told robert mueller about jeff sessions. donald trump junior has the same worry. jared kushner has already been exposed today as the person who might have the most to worry about in michael flynn's testimony because nbc news confirmed the transition
official referred to in documents filed today is jared kushner. it was jared kushner that told michael flynn to break the law and negotiate on behalf of the united states with foreign countries while michael flynn and jared kushner was private citizens. so it is already publicly clear michael flynn has given up jared kushner in his plea deal with the special prosecutor so tonight jared kushner should wonder what does he have to give up to the special prosecutor get him out of trouble? if jared kushner needs a stay out of jail card, whose name is on that card? who can jared kushner give up to the special prosecutor? we'll be right back. patrick woke up with a sore back.
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jared kushner's role in the legal filings that the special prosecutor filed today. >> that's right, lawrence. nbc news is reporting that jared kushner is the very senior transition official who tasked mike flynn with going about this united nations security counsel resolution condemning, that the obama administration would let pass and ultimately did pass. the israelis hated this resolution. the trump team is very public and opposing it and what hike mike flynn is doing is try to derail it and pieces of evidence here that the trump team was essentially negotiating before it took office with the russians on foreign policy. and what that looks like according to one person i talked to today is a conspiracy to violate the logan act. a law that says you're not supposed to do that. that's never been prosecuted and
no documents have mentioned it but an interesting idea and we know as a matter of tradition, we have one administration at a time and not considered proper for the income to be negotiating in the current administration? >> david from, as we close out this day of coverage on this, i want to get your reaction to everything that has unfolded today and whatever order you'd like to give it. >> in your opening monologue, lawrence, very powerful describe the walls closing in on the president but there is one other piece of the wall closing in today and that's a different track and that is the senate tax bill a lot of people watching your show have not enthusiastic about the bill but the thing to keep is mind that's the devil's bargain and struck with donald trump.
once they have his signature on that bill, they don't need him as much as they do. their business, that's another piece of closing in wall he has to contend with. >> i want to go to the question that has been vexing me all day, why would he lie? he had to know lying to the fbi is a crime. he seems to also be aware that the conduct he was being asked about, if admitted to, constitutes a crime. so do you -- can you -- do you imagine he was sitting there staring at these fbi agents asking them these questions realizing if he admits to this, he's admitting to violations of the logan act, if he doesn't admit to it, he's taking his chances on getting away with the
violation of the logan act and getting away with lying to an fbi agent, which just seems, i don't know, inconceivable to me. >> yeah, it's difficult to know. one thing that it's important to understand is that when fbi agents are interviewing somebody as part of an investigation, it is part of the protocol to tell the person that it is a crime to lie to the fbi. part of that is just sort of fair notice to the witness but the other part of it is, it's an element of the crime they have to prove that the person knew it was against the law. the very first thing they do, show them badges and make sure that everybody knows that this is for real and serious and it's a crime to lie to the fbi. so with that, this is not a passing moment of laps of judgment. you have to think very carefully about whether you want to tell the truth in this situation and so to decide to lie, it is -- it's hard to know exactly what was going on in his mind but a
number of possibilities. one is that i knew i was violating the logan act. i'm not sure you did. it's a fairly obscure law. maybe he did or didn't know there was a crime on the books. i have to think most people understand you can't undermine the foreign policy of the united states and that he was protecting not only himself but others higher in the administration and the stakes were high. >> barbara, when you say the fbi agents announced it's a crime to lie to them, in your experience, does that function as an incentive for more people to tell the truth, some whom might have been thinking about maybe shading things a little bit? >> you hope it causes them to make a sober assessment. you can't blow smoke. you can't exaggerate. this is serious business. the time is now. we'll ask you questions and we need you to answer them truthfully and it's a crime if you lie to us. you would hope that sends a message to most you need to take this seriously and answer questions truthfully and if you
don't, there could be serious consequences. >> you worked in government. i'm not sure any one government from the interns up have to be told that the worst possible thing that can happen to you is to discover that the fbi has some things they would like to ask you about that they have been doing. it should be enough straight into what you need to do which is tell them the truth. >> also, all the other things you might be in trouble for easier to defend. the name was never prosecuted because the fbi and special prosecutor asked them but he told the truth and the truth was the actual underlying act was not illegal but the people who lied to the fbi got in trouble. i mean, if all that michael
flynn had done is violate the logan act and the fbi, looking bark, i probably violated the logan act and i don't feel sorry about it, nothing would have happened. nobody has prosecuted for violating the logan act and that makes me think it has to be more than that because for the logan act, why would you lie? >> what does this tell us about where we are in the investigation? there have been those utterly silly comments out of ty cobb at the white house saying that, you know, it looks like it's wrapping up soon. those are comments that he must be trying to convince donald trump of because nobody else can believe that. >> yeah, it wasn't a good day for mike flynn and not a good day for ty cobb for that position he's been espousing for weeks, lawrence. clearly, there is a long way to go but i'll say this, these court documents today did not really speak to the central issue of this muller investigation, did the trump campaign collude to intervene in the election?
there coordination over the leaked e-mails? you know who would know whether that happened if in fact it happened, mike flynn would know because he was in every significant meeting around national security. he was in every important meeting in the first three weeks of the trump administration. you can bet that, you know, robert mueller is expecting to hear everything that mike flynn may or may not know about the campaign's contacts with the russians and don't forget the wall street journal story that robert mueller is investigating whether mike flynn was part of an effort to find the missing hillary clinton e-mails during the campaign. so i think there is a lot left to learn about what mike flynn may know. >> ken dilanian, appreciate it. a look back at the person that tried to save donald trump from this day. president barack obama. ( ♪ ) as a person who loves the finer things,
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well, i just had the opportunity to have an excellent conversation with president elect trump. it was wide-ranging. we talked about some of the organizational issues in setting up a white house. we talked about foreign policy, we talked about domestic policy. >> and that was the day, that was the meeting in which president obama warned donald trump not to hire michael flynn for any job in the trump administration. joining us now, betsey woodriff and advisor more mccain and max boot, the president of the united states has to be regretting tonight he did not take barack obama's advice. >> that's for sure. although we also read that he's regretting that he didn't continue pursuing the
allegations that president obama wasn't born in -- >> yes. >> in kenya. he has a lot of regrets. >> a life of regret. >> it was obvious, anybody that knew mike flynn and you remember in december 2015 he went to moscow and accepted a payment and of course in the fall of 2016 while he was the chief foreign candidate for trump, he was an unregistered agent. the trump with mike flynn goes well beyond the fact he lied to the fbi and knee-deep in complicity with the russians. he was doing all sorts of stuff that would set off alarm bells in any normal campaign. for trump it was business as usual and the disturbing thing is perhaps the fact that flynn appeared to be so corrupt was part of the selling point for trump.
he liked the fact that this guy had this entree with the kremlin and dealings you take money from the kremlin for somebody like trump would be a recommendation. it would be a reason to judge him instantly. >> i had not considered that donald trump could have been hearing the reasons from barack obama why he shouldn't hire michael flynn and that sounded to him like reasons to hire him. >> right, i can't speak to the conversations that current and former president had but what we can say and know without a doubt is that this just highlights the extent to which the trump presidency has over seen a dramatic and potentially irreversible shift in republican foreign policy just about any other serious republican candidate that ran in 2016 all those folks shared one basic
view about russia, which is that this country was a geopolitical threat and unlawful and threatens stability throughout eastern europe and on the russia and vladimir putin would be viewed with a high degree of step step tim mism. the thing that struck me today looking at the statement of offense that came out this morning, is the fact that just four days after trump became president on january 24th, michael flynn and his national security advisor sat down with an interview with the fbi and the lies he told the fbi he admits to telling agents were specifically about two efforts that the trump transition team under took to influence the russians and we focus on russian efforts to influence american politics but a case where it's a flip. the opposite. americans trying to persuade russians to take certain
actions. that's a massive shift in the way the republican party operates and it's a change that republicans will have trouble potentially reversing if they like to. >> i want to listen to what president trump said about michael flynn just three days after flynn was fired. >> regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire -- mike flynn is a fine person and i asked for his resignation. he respectfully gave it. he didn't have to do that because what he did wasn't wrong. >> we know that donald trump knew that what he did was wrong because sally yates made those two emergency trips to the white house to tell the white house exactly and saying what he did wasn't wrong and that same president fires jim comey because he doesn't go easy on flynn. >> trump has an inverted moral
code. what everybody else thinks is normal he thinks is wrong and vice versa. he attacks everybody on -- elizabeth warren and everybody in washington but he has nothing bad whatsoever to say about mike flynn and even in the last few months, he's made comments that indicates he has a lot of affection for mike flynn. he was really doing what trump wanted, which was to reach out to the kremlin and one of the spins that you hear today from some people today that are friendly to trump is, you know, what he's pleading guilty to is basically something that any normal national security official would do reaching out to the kremlin. there is a reason he was lying because they were under cutting american policy and i suspect this is part of quid quo pro and the deal he was communicating with him. >> the day will come when priebus mcgann will be under
oath and tell the president what they did and that got the president to fire michael flynn and we heard michael flynn tell america, we heard donald trump tell america that michael flynn didn't do anything wrong. >> right and there are certainly some perplexing disconnects in the public statements that senior, current and white house officials have made about flynn's short tenure and the statement that flynn signed on to this morning only exacerbates the disconnects that exist. one thing that's important here is that the vice president has been emphatic and consistent and that he did not know about
conversations that flynn had before he apparently learned of them, he said he didn't know about them. probably about the same time, the statement that flynn said indicates that he was talking with very high-level transition team officials while pence was running the transition team. how is the transition team operating? kind of leadership is in place there? we have learned raises a lot more questions. >> max boot and betsey woodriff. >> donald trump tweeted a word with michael flynn with the special prosecutor. next. regardless of recommendation i was going to fire comey
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knowing there was no good time to do it. when it was time, i said to myself, this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story. it's an excuse by the democrats for having lost an e lex. >> joining us is jonathan and msnbc contributor back with us. the lester holt interview remains possibly the most important televised presidential interview ever done. other than possibly david frost's interviews with nixon
msnbc. the votes and they finally locked them in earlier today. we had senate majority leader mitch mcconnell come out of a meeting with republicans saying they had the votes they've opinion writing the bill ever since. one fortunate things democrats have been complaining about here predominately is they at any time get to look he actual text of the legislation until 11:00 tonight they've only been able to see the bill a couple hours. republicans argue they've seen the vast majority of the bill.
and it's been finished wore phoenix and plenty of time to look at it. but at the moment there is a lot of complaints from democrats and also some republicans as well who feel they didn't have enough time to be able it look at the bill before they voted which is happening right now. >> frank you bring aup good point because this happened quickly. i know it's been in the works for months. it did happen quickly. we have a lot of republicans on their side. this is by far over. tell us what is the next step if it passes the senate? >> right, if it does pass the senate which we expect to do here momentarily, what happens is that the senate and the house will have to negotiate a compromise. the house passed their version. they did so last month. and so what happens now is that the ideas that the republicans on the house side and the republicans on the senate side have to get together and figure out a compromise between the two
bills. there are some major and some minor differences between the two bills. predominately the largest difference in the senate bill there is repeal of the affordable care individual mandate which was added as a sweetener for some republicans, some conservative republicans hoping to add that in there. not only does it raise revenues that they're able to make the tax cut larger but also hits at a major campaign promise they've been trying to get at for years now is attacking the affordable care act. that's something they'll have to figure out a compromise with the house whether or not that can pass in the house. another issue involved child tax deductions and local and state tax deductions. these are things that have to be worked out between the house and the senate. this is far from over. this is a major step forward. and the process and this is a major win for republicans, a
major win for president trump who has been really pushing this as a major policy priority. but at the same time i mean this is -- this is by far from the end. we still have a ways to go before they're able to claim this as a crossing the finish line victory. >> right and frank we are looking at a picture obviously the senators standing around as the vote goes down. we know they need 51 votes to pass this. have there been any lass minute gop holdouts? are there any holdouts you know of. >> there is one. and senator i think we're about to hear the vote taly called now. they're handing it to vice president pence. but bob corker the one no vote for republicans. he is the one holdout. he had issues with the amount of money that this is adding to the deficit. there was a bipartisan congressional review of how much this -- or how this bill affects the economy and the deficit and it was going to add -- hold on
here. >> the nays are 49. the tax cuts and jobs act as amended is passed. [ applause ] >> there you have is vice president mike pence saying the gop tax bill has been passed. we are looking at the 51 yea votes. 49 nay votes. this goes to some sort of reconciliation with the house bill which is already passed. and you mentioned earlier it's like a rubik cube thing as they o forward with this how long is it going to take for them to come to agreement between the two bills do you think? >> well, there was a hope they were going to try to do this by year's end. but i think that's highly optimistic. as we saw on the senate side we saw on the house side as well. it's not a process that goes
quickly. and so i think that republicans are hoping to be able to go into the new year with this as a done deal, as a finished product. but i mean there are like i said there are a lot of major differences that they're going to have to figure out how to get to a compromise on that are not going to necessarily be so easy. and -- there is also just the general facts that congress moves slowly, particularly the senate. not only do they -- they now go, they have to name the negotiators for who is going to be negotiating between the house and the senate bill. they have to negotiate the differences. >> right. >> to get to a compromise bill. and then actually take it up in both the house and the senate and then have the president of the united states sign it. if they were to be able to get a compromise that can pass both chambers. >> you mentioned gop senator bob corninger was the holdout for the gop discussing the possible tax bill because the reports say that it adds a $1 trillion
addition to the deficit. is that what bob corker was disagreeing with. >> right. and so -- yes. and that was the issue is that what happened is that this -- this bipartisan congressional review from the joint center for taxation came out saying that what republicans had hoped this entire time was that by looking at this dynamically, look at the effect of the tax cuts were going to be that it was going to pay for itself. it wasn't going to add to the deficit. and this analysis came out saying we've done this analysis we have look at what the possible effects of in bill could be and we still think it's going to add $1 trillion to the deficit. bob corker held the line on that. granted bob corker is in a position to do that. he is announced he is not running for re-election. he is -- he is retiring. so he no longer has to toe the
party line so much. but he was the one holdout, the one republican who decided to vote against it. but it's interesting to see whether or not that analysis has an effect on these negotiations. and that also has an effect on the house. and whether or not the house will -- whether or not there will be republicans fiscally conservative republicans who will look at that and say listen, i don't feel comfortable with voting for a bill that adds $1 trillion to the deficit. but you look at senators over on the -- lawmakers here on the senate side, republican on the senate side like ted cruz notoriously fiscally conservative who is onboard with this saying they don't believe the analysis. they think the tax cuts will pay for themselves they'll make the economy grow more than they think this analysis projects. they feel comfortable with the idea that this is the right bill for this time. i mean what this is, though is
that from the -- at the very bottom line level, republicans need this win. republicans need this legislative win. they failed on the ability to repeal the affordable care act. president trump wants a legislative win. they want something under their belt showing the republican congress and republican president can produce something. that's what they're trying to do here today. >> right and frank just we're taking a listen in. >> the ayes have it the the court will report the nomination sfl nomination of homicide kirstin nielsen to be secretary. >> frank i want to ask you there were some late sign ones for this. we know that john mccain came late into giving his approval saying he would vote the party line. you bring up the important point saying that president trump really needs a win going forward for the republicans. and this is what he has focused on to get this gop tax bill passed.
and this is more of a win for him. are the senators really onboard for in is it more of we just need a win for the gop. >> well, i think it's both. i think that there are republicans who truly feel like these tax cuts are what they ran on. they feel like this is what will help jump start the economy. they feel like they want to continue to increase growth in our economy increase the gdp and the amount of money that goes into people's paychecks. they don't want the money going to the government. from add fundamental level tax cuts are a very republican priority. it's always been a priority. but you also republicans who are very honest about the idea that if they don't pass -- if they don't pass tax reform. if they're unable to do this it will have a -- a terribly -- a terrible effect on the party as a whole.
the perception of the republican party as a party that's unable to actually govern. lindsey graham said himself listen if we don't pass this we're not going to have any donors giving us money. we are losing in primaries. we're going primaried by conservative members. we're going to lose majorities in the house, lose in the senate. if we don't do something now we're going to be in a very bad place politically. there is definitely a practical calculus here. but i mean there is a political one as well. and you know going back to the idea that what president trump wants to do here. he has not really gotten a big political priority under his belt here. he needs to be able to show that he has control over congress and the presidency and he can actually do something. so this is a big priority not only -- for the only from like a perspective of economic policies
but also just because the politics requires it. >> right. and frank we are looking at the senate floor right now. and we had mitch mcconnell up earlier they're still cussing this. what is going on now in the senate. >> right now are they are discussing what they're -- well i believe that they're discussing what they're going to be doing next steps in terms of the conference committee. and how they're going to do the negotiations going forward. we're actually about to hear from senator mcconnell. he is do ago press conference here soon hopefully. but but, yeah, i mean -- what they're laying out now is the process. i mean this is -- and this is a victory lap for them. this -- there was a real chance the bill wasn't going to be going -- wasn't going to be passing this. they've been wrangling the votes for weeks. and whether or not they were going to get some of those -- those votes that were on the
fence, those votes that needed a little bit of the sweeteners, the provisions added so they would come onboard. right now you have senator enze the chairman of the budget committee the outleting next steps they will come become next week and the house and senate will both have to vote to go to conference once that process is finished then they'll start the negotiations. >> right. and this is as you said before this is a big win for mitch mcconnell too. this has been -- he has been presiding over this. i know you mentioned he will have a news conference soon we are waiting and taking that. we're taking that when we can get it i know we are speaking right now. if you can fill us in on that as we go along that would be great. talk about this now. we are going right now we have senator orin hatch and we are listening in. >> this will help millions and millions of youngpeople in our
society. our society as a whole. i'm very grateful to all the people who made this possible who worked so hard to make sure that we passed bill. it's a great achievement i'm grateful for everybody here. >> well, mr. chairman orin, thank you for your leadership on finance and in tackling title one. incredibly important for our country when we think about the growth opportunities that now stand before us. i was proud to be able to shepherd title ii, five pages of your provisions, sir. >> great job, you did. >> but a measure that has been an issue now for even longer than the last rewrit of tax reform. we've