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tv   America in Primetime  MSNBC  December 24, 2017 7:00pm-8:00pm PST

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instead they're serializing. >> that's what television does best is to present itself in an elongated form. >> tv is becoming literature. it's a new page in sort of our sense of what we need from a show. we're so lucky as actors that television has embraced women so fully. >> she's very in control of herself, and she knows what she wants. >> makes her pretty fierce. >> i think people are mesmerized by tv because they feel they have ownership of these characters. >> she has to be who she is. >> she's not an ambiguous person. there's never really a struggle to find out what she wants. she's making money and providing food and a roof. i think people tend to want to see more that reflects their actual experience of life.
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>> i don't know if we could define independence ourselves. i think it's different for every person. >> an inpendent woman is someone who has control of her life. it's not about marriage or children or work or what you're going to do or what you're going to wear. it's about being able to decide for yourself. television is most certainly here to stay. ♪ >> new eyes. new vision for the world. >> take it easy. just take it easy. you never hear someone say, oh, he's a party guy. you don't want to marry him but you always hear them say, oh, she's a party girl. fun for a laugh but not the kind
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of girl you want to marry. you can play with the bad girls, but you marry a good girl, you know? >> it starts with an image. a man on the stage, a politician, who has just gone through scandal. and we think he's going to be the star of our show. and as he's speaking we back out and see this woman standing beside him just mortified. >> with the love of god and forgiveness of my family, i know i can rebuild their trust. >> all you see is this hollowed out, exhausted woman. >> i pray that one day may serve you again. thank you. >> are you involved with prostitutes, sir? >> but she's still going to get the lint off his sleeve. we kept seeing that one image over and over that press conference of the disgraced
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politician or preacher or whomever with that wife standing by his side. one just kept wondering, what is going through her mind? >> and reality hits her of what she's just put through and the humiliation. it's that feeling of, you allowed me to become that small and unimportant. >> hey. >> and in that moment when she slaps him, it's her wake-up. not -- it's not just about you bastard, how could you have done this to me? it's her wake-up to what have i been doing? >> from that moment oeverything that is involved in that relationship is open for question. >> you spent two years as croshere, abrams and abbott. why did you leave? >> well, the kids and peter's career. >> women are asked -- we're asked a lot of ourselves. just from us.
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i'm not blaming anyone but us. just as a mother myself and a wife and someone who loves to work, the constant struggle of trying to be great at both is exhausting. and there is this tremendous pressure that i think working women, mothers, put on themselves to be everything. and youcan't. you just can't. we don't just identify with being mothers and wives anymore. we don't just identify with being career women. but who are we? >> all colors of what a woman can be are open to her. and she's trying to find her identity. >> she's finally figuring out that playing the good girl all the time has -- hasn't gotten her very far. >> there's nothing i can say. >> that's right. >> showing her flaws is actually a lot more comfortable. than pretending she doesn't have any.
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>> there is nothing wrong with your television set. do not attempt to adjust the picture. we are controlling transmission. >> i think the television kind of trained and brainwashed a whole generation of women. >> society has always put a lot of pressure on women to present a perfect image of themselves physically. the perfect wife, the perfect mom. >> i'm proud to bring my friends over. >> well, thank you. i'm always glad to have them. >> i grew up knowing i would never be a successful wife and mother the way it had been portrayed on tv. >> well, what's this? >> apple juice, sir, for that tired, ankle of a feeling. >> i think those images from television of these model women still make us feel bad. somewhere deep inside. that somehow we're not living up to this ideal of womanhood n motherhood and wivness.
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those women are great. donna rita is so great and mrs. cleaver is such a great mom and i will be a failure. >> that image of perfection was false. >> i don't think anything was deliberate or conscious. >> it was a less complicated time, and there was more -- it was more idealized and aspirational when they portrayed the family. >> the kids are bathed and in their pajamas. the dad walks home and comes home and gets a martini and everyone speaks to each other politely. and everyone goes to bed. often in separate beds. >> on television in my childhood it was still there where it showed mother covering up everything to make the father feel like he was the man or whatever that means. >> i want you to know that your father is a wonderful father.
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and i couldn't have asked for a better husband. but he's still a man. >> well, naturally. >> and a male likes to feel that he thinks up all the ideas. so the tactful wife by various justifiably devious methods plants the idea in his mind and then lets him go ahead and think it up, and everyone is happy. >> it's just so freaky.
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dry mouth has been a problem for me. i just drank tons of water all the time, it was never enough. my dentist suggested biotene. my mouth felt more lubricated. i use the biotene rinse and then i use the spray. biotene did make a difference. [heartbeat]
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finding mary was the tough thing. i saw really 60 girls. >> i had had one failure after another. i'd go in and read for something and think it went well and then i wouldn't get the part. >> i said i dont know what i'm looking for. they said you will when you see it. >> i got this call from my agent and he said carl reiner. my heart started pounding. >> she walked in my office one day and read two lines. >> and he got this look in my eyes like i'd never seen before opinion. >> i grabbed the much to her head and said come with me. she thought i was going to accost her. >> i walked her into sheldon's office. you're right. we found her.
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we found our lady. ♪ >> that a girl. >> we wanted her because she had a style about her. and she was a very modern lady in those days. she wore capris. >> somebody from the network said you have to let them out. >> they said i was shocking people. i had been an actress who did very small parts on dramatic shows. i had no comedy background. all i could think of when i first got to work with that raft was, what would lucy do? lucy was the queen. >> laura's thrust in the show was to be the independent woman, which was -- started to happen at that time.
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>> he says right from the begin, you are not going to be the kind of wife who says, here's the cream and sugar, darling. and how was your day? >> not only did mary play an incredibly forceful character, but she had a true presence and identity, and she just wasn't the beautiful wife, which she could have so easily been. >> hi, honey. >> wow. >> some of the shows she wants to go out dancing and be a dancer again and at the end she decides, oh, i just want to be a mother. >> i wonder if i could take the strain of the daily classes and rehearsals and the exercise. and now i know. i can't. >> you can't? >> no, rod. there isn't a bone in my body that isn't screaming for heaven's sake, lie down in a hot tub. >> when we look at that now, i feel remiss about that. that was not exactly what i would say is a forward looking
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thing. she could have done both. >> there was still that hangover of, oh, well, the husband works and the wife stays at home. and that's the way it is. >> my wife worked at home, but it was more aspects to a woman than just being a housewife, which is good enough. if you can bring up kids and send nontoxic human beings into the world, that's about the best thing you can do, actually. but a lot of people don't feel fulfilled. if the don't feel fulfilled, they should be able to fulfill themselves however they want. ♪ ♪ jericho jericho ♪ ♪ the walls came tumbling down >> it's a terrible thing we're doing to american women in the name of femininity. we're preventing them from reaching their goals as human beings. >> women have caught onto the game. we don't know it completely yet. we haven't discovered the total
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anatomy of our oppression and what they're doing to us. but it's happening. >> women are delightful persons, and i hear a strange and strident voice that is attempting really to stop some of this progress being made on behalf of women. that's the one i call that person. >> divorced? >> no. >> never married? >> no. >> why? >> you type? >> there's no simple answer to that question. >> yes, there is. how about, no, i can't type or, yes, i can. >> no simple answer to why a person isn't married. >> how many different reasons can there be? >> 65. >> we were very fortunate in our timing. the concept we came up with, the show we came up ith, the idea of the career woman started just asyou know, the woman's revolution was kicking in and it gave us lots of stories. >> you've been asking a lot of
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very personal questions that don't have a thing to do with my qualifications for this job. >> you know what? you've got spunk. >> well -- >> i hate spunk. >> the original idea that jim and alan had was that i was a recently divorced woman. and cbs said no. you can't have her divorced because everyone will think she's divorced from dick van dyke. >> she says there are three things you can't do a show about. jews, people with mustaches and divorced people. >> jim and alan wanted to write a show about a woman who was working in a newsroom who was newly on her own, independent, but terrified. it was not about women's lib.
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>> part of her character was that it was very tough for her to stand up for herself. that she was a pushover. that she seemed a pushover. >> mary, come in here. come in my office. >> mary, come into my office. >> we did 300 scenes that started with, mary come into my office. the batting average was amazing because of that quality she had when she was called on the carpet. >> did i ring? >> i think mary tyler moore influences everybody. she was the first woman who we really saw in the workplace, i feel like, who was single and wasn't interested, you know, wasn't interested in not being single and was pursuing her career. very exciting, actually. >> we had a daring joke at the time where her mother says to her father -- >> don't forget to take her pill. and mary and her father say, i
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won't. she was on birth control. it was a daring joke at the time. >> it's all a big joke to you, isn't it? well, a woman doesn't have to have a baby if she doesn't want to. >> i say a man is entitled to have a baby if he wants to. >> well, mr. grant, on behalf of women everywhere, let me say we'd sure like to be there when he has it. >> so many people wanted us to step on a soap box with that show. it was very important we burned all the soap boxes. we there were to do a good comedy show butur heroine existed at a very good time for women and that got into the show. >> i was pretty much born married. i married when i was 18. three months after the end of that divorce, i met my second husband, grant tinker. and when we separated going to new york for me was terrifying because i'd never been on my
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own. the only real sure thing i had inside me that said you know what you're doing, you can do this, was mary richards, really. i remember thinking, what would mary do? women would say to me, i watched that show, and i so identify with you. you know, i became a writer because of you. i became a producer because of you. and when they say you, they mean that whole wonderful production. it's a very lightweight mantel. i'm grateful for it. ♪
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the women's movement really helped shine a light on those old stereotypes. women were reading betty friedman's and what she called the problem with no name. you were sent to college and prepared for something great and then weren't allowed to pursue it and had to worry about yellow waxy build-up on your floors. and what came out of that
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ultimately was an opportunity to create a character who flew in the face of all of that. >> you want to know something? i've been in over my head since the day i invited joel shaw to my junior prom. he was 35 at the time. you can't always play by the rules, miles. taking risks is how i got here. >> to play murphy was just so much fun. it was so liberating and it sort of freed my inner pest. >> getting along with other people is a reflection of getting along with yourself. >> i've got your reflection right here, pal. >> i remember reading the pilot of murphy brown and i thought that was the coolest thing in the whole world that she just got out of rehab. >> during the pitch that kind of stopped everybody in their tracks. they didn't open with that. >> i havenad drink in over a month. i haven't had a cigarette in --
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>> and the reaction was, that's not really a very attractive trait in a woman. someone who has had problems with alcohol. >> she got to be lou grant. that was a big deal. executives in television, the buttons got pushed because those were traditionally male traits. >> you know, sam malone on cheers had come into the bar as a recovering alcoholic. why can't the same thing apply to a woman? >> what cbs said that they would like instead of her being a 40-year-old who was just coming out of betty ford, couldn't she be a 30-year-old who had just come back from a spa. diane says, no. that's not the point. >> it was so exciting to see a woman character be starchy. >> i'm beginning to find your attitude extremely offensive. >> perch and rotate. >> people, they want interesting. they don't want likable.
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>> murphy became that person we all wish we were. you know, all the things you should have says or wish you could have says. well, she said them. >> she never felt that she had to please anyone or be polite. and that was such a break for women to see that. >> we do spend a lot of time trying to be liked and wanting to be liked. at least at that time, you know, it was unusual to see somebody who really didn't care about that. >> she's a housewife from denver, colorado, who started appearing in a local nightclub in denver about three or four years ago. and she hufd out here to hollywood where she's been working at the comedy store. this is her very first appearance on national television. would you please welcome roseanne barr. >> so, i'm fat. i thought i'd point that out. >> i was raised in salt lake city, utah. i was a jewish girl from a poor
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family. so everywhere i went, i was the opposite of everybody. and i have a waist, and i was fat and i just talk like i talked and i was funny and that was really frowned on to be a smart, funny girl in salt lake city, utah. i was always, constantly corrected by everyone who came in my path. where they would say, you should do this. well, don't do that. this is not the way a young lady, blah, blah. but i realized early that i would never have anybody's approval. maybe that helped layer protection against the constant onslaught of correction and really humiliation that fat girls get in schools where everybody is thin and blond and capitulating. >> it's a note from my history teacher. you have to meet with her at 3:15. >> today? >> uh-huh. >> why do you always wait until the last minute to tell me these
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things. i've got a life, too. it's not like i don't have nothing to do. >> i'm sorry, what do you want me to do? throw myself off a bringe. >> yeah, and take your brother and sister with you. >> when i first was a young mother and would sit home watching television with my kids, and i was just appalled at television. i had the fantasy like a lot of people do of, man, if i ever had a chance to get ohere's what i would do. here's what i would say. it's all bs. there was never any -- any woman like me on there or my grandma or my mom or my aunts. nothing like that. so i always wanted to kind of get inside the stereotype and punch the walls out of it. >> we're going to be at the bowling alley and chip's going to be at the bowling alley. we're bound to run into one another. >> please don't embarrass me. please! >> oh, honey, there's no way
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we'd embarrass you. >> the first network we took it to rejected it. they said who would want to watch that? who would want to watch her or a show about this? who would want to? no. ♪ >> it was the first realistic representation of a mother i had ever seen on television. it was a woman who couldn't necessarily hold on to a job and physically, roseanne was relatable. she was just this sort of big shrill midwestern housewife. >> everybody knows that women run the family. that was never on tv. that's the thing that i liked. >> the story of a real mother on television, i thought, it was just so important. >> every detail of that set spoke volumes about how hard it was to have enough money to put food on the table. >> this is a character who is paid by the hour. a character who is not getting
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enough health care benefits, who is struggling and trying to balance the needs of being a good mom with the needs of bringing home a paycheck. >> you're overworked, underpaid, overweight, and to be laughing at that, making edgy jokes about that, that was new. that was different. >> i think in the same way that roseanne was always fearless in her stand-up act, she seemed fearless about what her own personal issues might be. >> what do you mean going and getting plowed? what is your problem? >> you poo-poo everything in my life. >> yeah, and you go right for your addictive behavior. because you cannot have a conflict. >> and my character said back to roseanne -- >> well, have another shot of pancake, roseanne. >> you've got to have a pair to be able to allow, you know,
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another character to say that to your character, knowing full well that you are your character. i don't know who else was getting down and dirty like that. >> all this time you tell me if i'd work hard and got good grades and everything, i could make something out of myself. >> you still can. >> wogoing to night school and working at the buy and bag, i'm going to end up just like you. >> you apologize for that. >> it was a battle every single day, and it was like because they -- these people who make television just, they don't have any -- they are like aliens or something. they don't have any real-life experience or any values or anything. >> becky, i'm working two jobs here. >> i was working class enough myself to, you know, do the things that working class people do when you come from the elitist people, which is a lot of outrageous things when i look
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back, but it worked. worked for me. >> she was pissed off and meant everything she says. she lived that life and then became this big star. but in her heart, she still was the person struggling with her life. >> can't believe you let her talk to you like that. >> dan, the fact that she doesn't want to end up like me just proves she's been paying attention. >> all of it was real life. things that, you know, i tried to make sense of by making it funny on television. >> there's so many red flags, you know, for a network when you put somebody like that on tv who is so raw and interesting. and you know, not eye candy for male viewers. i can't think of a show that pulled off something that impossible. >> i really wanted to show, hey, you can be different and okay. you can be fat and okay. your husband can be fat. you can be unemployed. your kids are brats. you're still okay. as long as you have honesty n
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integrity and some measure of intelligence. it's all okay. what isn't okay is to be okay with how bad things are. just to throw some mud in the eye of the beast was fun. i saw the change in rich when we moved into the new house. but having his parents over was enlightening. ♪ you don't like my lasagna? no, it's good. -hmm. -oh. huh. [ both laugh ] here, blow. blow on it. you see it, right? is there a draft in here? i'm telling you, it's so easy to get home insurance on progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. patients that i see about dry mouth. they feel that they have to drink a lot of water. medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. i like to recommend biotene. it replenishes the moisture in your mouth. biotene defitely worksbiotene.
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i'm richard lui. they are investigating this morning's plane crash that killed five people near tampa. the sheriffs say there was no chance of survival. rescue helicopters lifted stranded skiers from broken gondolas in the french alps. local media say between 150 and 200 people were rescued. they were trapped for about two hours. now back to "america in primetime. ♪
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the 30-minute television show is down to 22 minutes. >> almost half the time you're watching, you're watching a commercial. >> it is a business, and it is a business that we are there to on broadcast television to sell products to america. >> stop, you're both right. >> a lot of the executives in regular network television are tied to advertisers. there's a lot of fear >> the whole deal was really to sell products. and so the shows that you made were things that wouldn't disturb you too much or make you think too much or even pay attention that much. >> paid cable wasn't worried about that. they wanted interesting. >> once you can stop worrying about getting 20 million people to watch your show, then you have a lot more flexibility. >> the gods are punishing me for having casual sex. >> it does represent freedom. there is an inherrent
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understanding that in cable, there's less restriction. >> i have come from doing a lot of network television and felt like, well, i wanted to do the network tv equivulealent of the independent film. and it was going to look at sex and relationships in a way that no television comedy had ever looked at them. and would never be able to look at them. >> we didn't have to answer to advertising dollars and didn't have to respond to nielsen ratings and worry about that. >> oh, god. oh, kurt. >> the challenge of creating a character like carrie was creating a character who was having sex with a number of different men unapologetically and you wouldn't think she was a bitch. >> all righty. my turn. >> oh, sorry. have to go back to work. >> mary tyler moore shook up television in the '70s.
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carrie was going to be a mary tyler moore for the new millennial. >> she's one of the ultimate independent women living in new york when that show was in its hey day, that was our bible. >> this is the first time in the history of manhattan that women have had as much money and power as men, plus the luxury of tweeting men like their subjects. >> so many women stopped me on the street and said, this is my life. this is how i communicate with my girlfriends. this is how i share my life with my women friends. >> to me what is most exciting about "sex and the city" is that the focus on the friendships and the strength of the friendships. the relationship between those four women is always paramount, regard fls what's happening around them. >> a simple you're so hard is quite effective. >> sometimes men just need encouragement. >> such as, yes, that's right, uh-huh. don't stop. just like that. come on.
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don't stop. >> seeing those women sit around a table and talk frankly about relationships, that, to me, felt really revolutionary. >> in the past, a lot of male shows objectified women and in this case, we were always objectifying the men. they didn't have names. they were mist are this or that. they came n went. >> i always felt bad for the men who came on. you know, they really don't get to say much. there's a brief introduction and then their trousers are off. >> if i were to do a show about a bunch of guys sort of talking smack about women in an explicit way, it just would not be funny. >> we never considered the show to be political. we never -- we weren't that subversive. i think it was subversive because we weren't trying to be. >> we weren't necessarily thinking about making a social statement. we were thinking about what was going to be funny. >> i was influenced when i created the show by "sex and the
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city." but those women told each other everything. and my experience with women is that, you know, a lot of them will share a lot, but they don't give away everything. these women are going to be desperate, it's because they can't share everything about their lives. >> i wanted a very pretty universe so that the kind of dirty, dark, wicked goings on would have a lovely pastel background. >> you never know what's happening behind closed doors. you never know what is really going on with your neighbors. >> a couple of months before i came up with the idea of "desperate housewives," i went to a reunion. one of my friends asked this gal we all knew. so do you just love being a mom and she soaid, no. i was kind of stunned because i didn't think women could say
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that out loud. >> what i felt about lynette was it gave voice to the difficulties and challenges of motherhood. >> how about you? >> four at home. two on the way. >> oh, big family. you're so blessed. >> i just can't imagine anything better than being a mommy. >> my experience when my children were little is there wasn't a whole lot of room for, wow, i hate this. what happened to the old me? and i am not one of those women that went into motherhood with ecwin imity and grace. i went in going, oh, my god, this is so hard. >> you know, linnet hates being a mother. she doesn't enjoy it. and has a breakdown on a soccer field. susan and brie go out to comfort her and confess to her that they understand they've been through it, too. >> and that's when lynnet turns to them and says, why doesn't anyone talk about this? because part of the pain is the shame of it. >> when you think back to "leave
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it to beaver" or any of those women, the whole idea was that you had to be perfect. >> same way women were fighting against the icon of the perfect wife in the '50s and '60s that led to women's lib. the new icon is motherhood. the perfection of motherhood. >> when people say, oh, she's just a mother, i'm like, do you know how hard that is? it's a lot easier to get up in the morning and go to work when someone offers me a cup of coffee. >> the first thing i came up with was the title "desperate housewives." the woman running the testing group says, a lot of women aren't going to like that. that meant they departmeidn't r women who just stayed in the home. you have to become the ceo of a fortune 500 company for us to respect you and care about you. i find any woman who wants to be a wife and mother and devote her life to creating a home, i find
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there's something quietly and beautifully heroic about that. and i'm attracted to write about that. ( ♪ ) ♪ one is the only number ♪ that you'll ever need ♪ staying ahead isn't about waiting for a chance. ♪ because one is... it's about the one bold choice you make that moves you forward. ♪ ...that you ever need the one and only cadillac escalade. come in for our season's best offers and drive out with the perfect 2017 cadillac escalade for you. get this low mileage lease from around $899 per month. ( ♪ )
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to remind you to go see a real doctor. go, know, and take control of your health. it could save your life. doctor poses! dad! cigna. together, all the way. dad! but on the inside, i feel like chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i'm glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. common side effects: dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery
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until you know how lyrica affects you. those who've had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. with less pain, i can do more with my family. talk to your doctor today. see if lyrica can help. ♪ there are many women out there, you know, who are very successful, independent women for whom love has always been elusive. >> you know that they're dying to connect. and i think that's what we all are. we're just dying to connect.
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>> "grey's anatomy" was a show i pitched about being about strong, competitive women who worked in a workplace where on a bad day you actually killed somebody. the entire show really, by the way, is a love story between meredith and christina. they are two women who completely bond over the fact that they are cut-throat and competitive and love surgery almost more than anything else. >> which is it? surgery or love? >> i want both. >> that's what i said. >> you can't have both. >> i definitely wanted to play christina. >> doing the procedure is the only thing that mattered. if you don't get to do it, you'll die. >> that's what you have to give up. >> for what? >> love. >> she's competitive, mean, nasty, but she has this intense calling. it's almost secondary that she's helping people. >> part of what makes the show
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interesting and complex for me to write is that i'm constantly exploring how these women are dealing with what they're doing in their work life and how that's going to mesh with having a personal life. >> can i have both? can i be a great surgeon and have a great life because there is this man who just asked me to marry him, and i know you tried to have both but you split up with meredith's dad. i know this is none of my business. >> it is none of your business. and i didn't try hard enough. >> sometimes we find ourselves caught between how do we balance, how can we have a successful, meaningful personal life, work life and find room for a loving relationship? >> the idea that we're all supposed to want this thing which is marriage and babies and
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a husband who, you know, rides a white horse. i know everybody wants the fairy tale, but the fairy tale doesn't necessarily exist for these women. ♪ >> so many women that i knew and myself included were struggling with finding balance. >> to be sexy and look young and make a living. >> how do you deal with not having child care or bringing your baby to work. how do you deal with the fact that your husband is not happy with how much time you are spending or not spending with your child. >> sometimes i think of tv shows that are written by mothers, the scripts that are written by mothers. if a mother have written it, they have been writing other things. >> there is no resolution of the
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problem of finding balance unless you are willing to say that balance is over rated. >> there is no way you can succeed in that all the time, in bits and pieces, i suppose. >> we move pass that moment which we are supposed to be having it all or having it all isra is real or frankly satisfying. that that's the thing that's most interesting to me. ♪
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if we are on regular network television, there is no way this would fly. >> you are okay? >> what do you think? >> she's a drug addict and cheats on her husband. she's deep down, she's so good. >> linda and i both understand addiction and we thought that's a great thing to give a main character, sort of an under tone and always pulling him towards some level of destruction.
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>> she really does think this is what he has to do to get through the day. >> we love the idea that she was this single woman you thought at work with a boyfriend who's a pharmacist. she comes home and there is two kids. >> hey babe. >> and a husband. >> she wants to honor the commitment she made to her patients and honor the commitment as a mother and a wife but she stretched herself so thin that cracks are starting to show. >>. >> you know you have this one life and what a high wire act it is. >> now she's juggling nights on the high wire and this woman has so many things pulling at her think people can relate to that. women especially can relate to that. in order to get drugs from
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eddie, jackie take as ring off when she goes to the hospital. >> there is an episode where jackie could gnat get her wedding ring off and she panics. >> for the record, i am questioning your judgment. dually noted. >> she cannot go home with a broken wed ring, right? >>. >> what do you do? >> i understand at least on some visceral sort of level what it feels like for her. >> i really appreciate this. >> it is what i do. >> she has a lot of good intentions and ultimately wants to be a good person and help other people but she's -- >> people relate to jackie
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because she's flawed. everybody has a darkness and as a writer, it is so exciting to really tell the truth with this stuff. >> she does not care if you like her. she does not care if she looks good. she does not care how she looks from the horrible pants. she's kind of like yep, here i am. >> beneath this addiction, i think it is a pretty spectacular person. we tell intimate stories. >> it is little earthquakes that she walks on and the world that she inhabitants and that's how drama is in real life. >> make me good, god. but, not yet. >> women don't have to be any one thing on television anymore.
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they can be anything and i think what makes it interesting for us is that we knno longer have to turn on television and see an image that no women would behave like that. >> what's off limits. >> it is within the realm of experience that i have had or writers have had or known peo e people, that it is all game. >> women by and large over the ages have needed to be liked and approved because that's all they had. they were not offered jobs. it was pain. am i cute enough for you? the women on television now are in pursuit of other things. yes, it would be nice if people like them. it is not their ultimate goal. >> there is so much more freedom to be all the things that are human and the ones that are sort of ugly. >> you can find somebody that reflects you on television right
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now. not only it is liberating but creative and more fun to play as an artist. >> the key to make great tv is reflect real human behavior and our hopes and dreams and struggles. ♪ this is a tragedy on top of a tragedy now. >> it happens so quickly, here pa parents in the backyard and their mom is in trouble. >> my dad panicked. >> a sudden slip, a fatal fall >> you are losing her mother, you are watching her go, right? >> someone else was watching her, too. a curious neighbor witnessed something astonishing. >> it was scary, theoo


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