tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 2, 2018 12:00am-1:00am PST
and thanks to you at home for giving us a chance. we're glad you watch sometimes at 6:00 p.m. eastern. have a very happy new year. 12 months of trump. let's play "hardball." good evening o. i'm chris matthews in washington. this year in politics a series of explosive headlines, most of which have been generate order at least fuelled by president donald trump. like many politician, trump was elected on the promise he would shake up washington. yet none of his predecessor have delivered such a steady stream of controversy and chaos in their first year in office. we begin tonight with the biggest story of 2017 so far, or by far, the investigation into russian meddling, potential collusion, and possible obstruction of justice.
we've seen an ever growing mosaic of trump associates, there they are, advisers and affiliates who have been drawn into the unfolding congressional and federal russia probes. piece by piece, investigators have been connecting the dots between them and their possible links to russia over the course of the last year. among those with the most clearly defined russian contacts are some of the highest ranking former campaign officials, many of whom currently serve or previously served in the white house itself. so far, four people have been charged with crimes in this special counsel's probe. two plead guilty and two agreed to cooperate and two are under diet. all this comes after president trump said last february he didn't know of anyone aside from michael flynn who had contacts with russia. >> can you say whether you are aware that anyone who advised your campaign had contacts with russia during the course of the election? >> no, nobody that i know of. >> so you're not aware of any contacts during the course of the election?
>> how many times do i have to answer the question kirks you just say no on it? >> russia is a ruse. have i nothing to do with russia. to the best of my knowledge, no person that i deal with does. >> i'm joined with susan page washington bureau chief for usa today. michael steele is the former chair of the republican national committee. and mara teresa kumar is a msnbc contributor. thank you for this great group of people to explain a year of politics. let me ask you this for the big question. you're right, front pang coverage for usa today who has gotten very opinionated at the end of the year i must say. >> the editorial page. >> the wall is still there let me ask you about this comparison the watergate. i see it step by step the way people come forward. michael flynn seems to be coming for ward in a john dean way. there seems to be parallels. we haven't found a tape yet of the president cutting deals with russia. but comparisons. >> i think it is potentially much more serious than watergate because it involves a foreign
government, a hostile foreign government affecting our election. and that is a more serious set of circumstances that than we had with the watergate affair. what we don't know he is what role the president himself exactly played in this. and that is what we're going to find out i bet in this next year. >> just the most simplistic level, the republicans broke into the democratic national committee headquarters after watergate. in this case, what happened? what is the parallel? >> in this case russia actively tried to affect who we elected as our president. >> and they broke into? >> and they broke into e-mail systems and they affected the national debate through facebook and they repeatedly reached out and tried to form contacts with the republican candidate's campaign. >> firing people was no way for richard nixon to defend himself. are we seeing the same pattern here? >> thing is an attempt at that. and firing people will be no way to get out of this particular mess for the administration as
well. in fact, what you've seen at the end of this year is more and more republicans have sort of hunkered down, even though they're still throwing stones at robert mueller, they know they can't have those stones actually land in the area of actually pulling his investigation. >> is that what you're hearing, that they think that's almost a firing offense for the president? >> yes, they do. a lot of republicans, a lot of the ones i talked to both on the staff level and at the congressional level, they don't want any parts of a firing of mueller because not just the optics and the politics, but the legalities of it, the cushion nalt of that. all of the things come together given all the other big messes they have had to deal with next year. that's not one they want the start next year with. >> murray a powerful comparison to watergate is nixon. of course he was pardoned by gerald ford, his successor. people always wonder was there something there in that back room in terms of the
relationship. this time around everybody is talking about president trump, he going to pardon his son-in-law? is that something we're going to see in the beginning of the year here? >> i think that was part of the calculation when the president said well, i haven't looked at everything right now for flynn. but he may be pardoned. so he is basically dangling this maybe if you cooperate with me. >> this is a horse out of the barn there? he is already talking. >> he is already talking. but that's it. he has been talking the whole time. he is basically, while nixon tried to cover up, this president is tweeting out, right? and every single thing that he says, he has actually sat down with lester holt and admitted why comey was really fired because of the mueller investigation. he tweeted out and said the reason flynn -- distancing himself is because he lied to him and he knew he was tlieg the fbi. this president does not know what's good for him. and i'm sure it's driving his lawyers bananas.
it's what you're saying. he is literally creating a trail of obstruction of justice. >> the president is going further than denying collusion. he has consistently rejected the intelligence, showing that russia was responsible for meddling in the 2016 election. let's watch him. >> it might be russia. it could be china. it could be if you remember sony, it could be -- it could be north korea. it could be a lot of places. >> it also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay? maybe there is no hacking. >> you don't think it's phony that they, the russians tried to meddle in the election? >> that i don't know. >> i think it was russia. but i think it was probably other people and/or countries. and i see nothing wrong with that statement. nobody really nose. i said it very simply. i think it could very well have been russia. but i think it could well have been other countries. and i won't be specific. but i think a lot of people interfere. i believe that president putin really feels, and he feels strongly that he did not meddle in our election. what he believes is what he believes.
>> it could have been the japanese at pearl harbor. what do you make of that? i think years from now historians or archaeologists are going to say who is this 400 pound person somewhere? what is he talking about? >> it's vladimir putin in a fat suit. but here is the -- i think if you are looking at the mist relatives donald trump, the biggest mystery is why he has from the start he has had this odd attitude toward russia. that he won't criticize russia, that he praises vladimir putin. that he is delighted when vladimir putin praises him. it's not like it's the leader of great britain or germany or one of our allies. it's one of our biggest adversaries. and i think that is an answer to a question that we don't know yet. why this persistent effort to excuse russia, or praise russia or --
>> i think part of that sans transactional. >> exactly right. >> a transactional relationship that has been well established now that has gone back a good number of years. his sons have come out and admitted to it. you know how they get their golf courses built? well, the russians finance them. the big projects that he wanted to get done, the beauty pageants, all of that is a very transactional relationship that donald trump has established. and i think that's the underbelly of this whole thing for him. because he is not just thinking about right now. he is thinking what he wants to do when he leaves the white house. this is business interest, his brand. and the last thing he wants to do if he still wants to get that hotel, that trump moscow built is have the guy who could kill it pissed off. >> i also think -- i think that's why so many folks at least here in washington are really watching the mueller investigation as it relates to deutsche bank. >> yes. >> because we know that deutsche bank is the one that has actually lent the trump administration, the business, a lot of money. and it will be interesting to see what they actually uncover. >> and they gave money to jared for his operation. >> and to the trump organization as business. and that is why the mueller
organization is actually subpoenaing them. that's why people are holding with baited breath. >> go ahead, marie. you have the hot hand. connect that to refusing to acknowledge the russian meddling. connect that to all the meetings about, well, they're dumping all the bad stuff about hillary clinton, which is obviously helping trump. he is talking relief on the sanctions, helping them. that the big quid pro quo? or is it something that michael said, a deeper personal relationship in terms of transactions with this whole presidential campaign has been tainted by something of a business enterprise going on all through it for later years? >> i think it's two. one, it's definitely his business enterprise, that basically he recognizes that nothing happens in russia without putin's approval. but also, the fact that donald jr. met with the russians in that hotel room about repealing the sanction. that sanction act specifically is what gives putin power. because it's what basically allows his cronies to come into the united states and launder money. without that, he does not have power within the russia oligarchy. and that is why we peeling that
is so important. >> the mix of business creme nalt and kleptocracy, the whole works. ever since it first arose in the summer of 2016, the president and his allies have repeatedly and adamantly denied any collusion, coordination with russia took place. let's watch some of those denials. >> so they're investigating something that never happened. there was no collusion between us and russia there is no collusion. you know why? because don't speak to russians. >> i did not collude with russia, nor do i know of anyone else in the campaign who did so. >> the suggestion that i participated in any collusion is an appalling and detestable lie. >> i would certainly say don jr. did not include with anybody to influence the election. >> so no collusion whatsoever between anybody involved with trump and anybody involved with russia in the 2016 campaign?
>> no. >> did any adviser or anybody in the trump campaign have any contact with the russians who are trying to meddle in the election? >> of course not. >> paul, let's go back to this question of russia and hacking. can you tell what's you know about the relationship and what the campaign knows and what donald trump believes? >> we have no relationship. >> so what's the explanation? mike, you lead off here. saying no, no, no, no, no, i won't give an inch. that trump's character, his personality that doesn't give anything? >> i think it's a lot of that. he does not like to cede any ground on any issue because in his mind-set, he is right
wherever he is, he is right. but for me, this has always been i always thought the losing argument was rabbit hole. it was something people kind of went down and got lost in. and it was easy for trump to push back on the collusion thing because how do you prove it? what does it look like? where does it show up? for me it's obstruction of justice. >> what's he hiding from? >> well, that's what mueller has his fingertip on right now, which is why you see the nervous nellies around the white house. because when you start having flynn, papadopoulos and others start to go down, manafort who is starting to sing a little bit, talk a little bit, fill out the scenario. >> let's try something. >> what's that? >> jared kushner is one of the people fingered as one of the people giving orders to flynn to go talk to the russians.
your son-in-law, you know, let's just speculate here was one of the people giving orders about what to talk to the russians about. that's bringing you in. >> i think they've had a two-part defense. one is deny everything. even if you have to later make concessions that you didn't report. for instance, contacts with russia. the other is to muddy up the waters by attacking the people who are going to come out with the reports. the mueller investigation, congressional investigations if necessary and the news media. >> what's more likely as we get to the end of the year here? pardons of the people he cares about like his son-in-law, jared kushner, or firing mueller? >> or both? >> are they both causing both big trouble? >> i think they both caused him a problem, personally. >> will the republican party, your party break with him in any sizable percentage if he does one of those things? >> i think it will be a real breaking point, particularly in the senate. that would be a real breaking point on both of those fronts, starting to pardon people like flynn thinking would be a test of greatness -- >> i think he is more concerned -- i think the republican party would be more concerned with mueller and the pardons. they want to make sure they don't take that away from future presidents as well. >> coming up, 2017 will be remembered as the year the country went through a reckoning on issues of sexual misconduct. many high profile men lost their positions of power. but one notably did not lose his position of power. his name is donald trump, and that's ahead, and that is "hardball," where the action is. if your moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's symptoms are holding you back, and your current treatment hasn't worked well enough,
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women are very special. i think it's a very special time because a lot of things are coming out. and i think that's good for our society. and i think it's very, very good for women. and i'm very happy a lot of these things are coming out. and i'm very happy, i'm very happy it's being exposed. >> welcome back to "hardball" that was incredibly president trump on the other big story of 2017 as the country grappled with a national reckoning on sexual misconduct by powerful men, like him. "time" magazine named the silence breaker, the women who spoke out about sexual assault and harassment as their person of the year. and what started in october with a big "new york times" report on multiple allegations of sexual assault and harassment against hollywood mogul or former mogul harvey weinstein quickly spread as charges of sexual misconduct took down high profile men in politics and public life generally. the issue came to define, by the way, the alabama senate race after "the washington post" reported on multiple allegations against republican senate candidate roy moore involving
teenaged girls. one said he molested her when she was just 14 years old. charges moore denied. here goes. >> we've been intimidated. other people have been intimidated, and we're tired of it. "the washington post" put out this terrible, disgusting article saying i had done something. and i want you to understand something. they said these women, two, had not come forward for nearly 40 years. but they waited until 30 days before this general election to come forward. actions are going to speak louder than words. >> it's a referendum not just on the issues that we've got, but it's who we are and what we're going to tell our daughters. and is alabama going to stand with our daughters and our granddaughters, that we will believe them, we will respect them, no matter when they come
forward. >> on capitol hill, minnesota democratic senator al franken resigned after multiple accusations of inappropriate sexual behavior led more than 30 of his democratic colleagues to call on him to leave the senate. >> i will be resigning as a member of the united states senate. i, of all people am aware that there is some irony in the fact that i am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the oval office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the senate with the full support of his party. >> well, alabama voters ultimately rejected roy moore, the me too movement and trump supported more revived allegations against the president himself. >> women who accuse anyone
should be heard. they should be heard and they should be dealt with. and i think we heard from them prior to the election. and i think any woman who has felt violated or felt mistreated in any way, they have every right to speak up. >> it became apparent that in some areas, the accusations of sexual aggression were being taken seriously. and people were being held accountable, except for our president. and he was not being held accountable. >> i asked that congress put aside their party affiliations and investigate mr. trump's history of sexual misconduct. >> well, trump has denied the allegations against all of them. but several democratic senators have called on president trump to resign over these accusations. that includes new york democrat kirsten gillibrand. trump lashed out against her in what i might call a sexually suggested tweet saying the
senator went to his office, beg herd for campaign contributions and said she would do anything to get his money. back with marie therese kumar and the panel. i think the president has gotten off on. this the 37% who like him don't seem to put this into their head at all. name within person who likes trump except for this. maria? who is out there saying if it weren't for that misbehavior with women and that "access hollywood" bragging thing and the awful thing he said about kirsten gillibrand, coming in and begging for his money, i'd like him. nobody seems to care. why it is that this isn't grabbing on to him the way it grabbed on to all the other people who have been accused? >> because i think what he has been able to do is sow such division in the country that they'd rather see him win on everything else. even though doug jones won, it was still 48% of republicans still went out and voted for roger moore. he -- excuse me, roy moore. what we're seeing is, and that
is the question we have to ask ourselves, the me too movement more powerful than partnership? what happened in this past election it is was not. we have to see what's going to happen, whether or not the congressional members of both party. >> the me too movement helped doug jones, didn't it? >> it did because you got a flurry of much more people coming out and voting than they do historically in midterm elections. >> look at the women shift. the women shift down there. >> absolutely. >> we did a poll. we asked if you agreed with the candidate but he faced a credible allegation of sexual misconduct, would you be less likely to vote for him? more than eight out of ten democrats said less likely.
but 2/3 republicans said less likely. i think this is a bipartisan movement. >> how come it didn't work with clinton? all those allegations were all pretty credible. they're credible and ghastly accusations. and all i heard was move on, missouri on.org. that's all i heard during that. >> there have been two huge cultural shifts in the last years. one was on gay marriage. and the one just this year is believing women. i think we have donald trump to thank for that because he got elected. >> what about harvey weinstein? >> i think donald trump changed the landscape and made people much more willing to say we've
got to listen to these women who are making allegations. >> would there have been a discussion about al franken or any of these guys? would there be a discussion if it weren't for the weinstein disclosure to come out? >> i think the weinstein disclosure sort catapulted the discussion forward. i think what happened going back to the 2016 cycle was when this came out, that "access hollywood" tape hit. there were a whole bunch of other things that distracted the way the conversation could go. you were still dealing with hillary clinton, comey, e-mails and then this. now people have had a chance to step back. weinstein happens and all of the sudden refocus the conversation can. that's the president's problem
going forward. because these women now have a second bite at that apple. you didn't pay attention to what we said in 2016. now can we replay the story for you so you understand exactly what we're talking about. and the difference between now and then is the american people are willing to listen. >> or taking cover. >> the majority of folks that have broken the stories have been men. and i'm thinking obviously of farrow right now. but he and the others have taken the lead. my question, though, is if this is what is happening at the highest levels of power, what are women in the service industry who can't have the power, who cannot decide to go and not work because minimum wage, what are they facing? and how do we make sure we're creating policy that they too are safeguarded? >> let's hope the labor unions are doing their part. go to the shop steward, the business manager for help. you got to do that. that's why you're in the union. collective strength. up next, 2017 was also a year in which president trump injected himself into hot button issues involving race. we're going to take a look at everything from his comments on charlottesville to his war with the nfl players. this is "hardball," where the action is.
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and it even let's you take a timeout. nooooooo! yes! amazing speed, coverage and control. all with an xfi gateway. welcome back to "hardball." president trump inserted himself into multiple culture wars this year that eclipsed the national conversation, ranging from charlottesville to the nfl players to gold star families. when a 32-year-old woman died while protesting the white supremacist group's marching on charlottesville, which included of course the kkk, neo-nazis and members of the alt-right, the president didn't outright condemn the groups. let's watch them. >> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious
display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides. on many sides. >> i'm not sure many sides was written in that script. anyway, he changed his tune a tew phew days later about why he was drawing a moral equivalency between the white supremacists and the counterprotesters demonstrating against them. let's listen to his more scripted remarks. >> racism is evil. and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs. including the kkk, neo-nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans. >> but just one day later, the president doubled down on his original claim that both sides were to blame, and claimed that some of his white supremacists were -- love this phrase -- fine people.
>> you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. i think there is blame on both sides. and i have no doubt about it, and you don't have any doubt about it either. and -- and if you reported it accurately, you would say that. >> we're back with our panel. this was a -- what it is used to say, an unearned foul you used to say in sports. why did he dig into this? who was he gaining here? >> i think it reflects his actual point of view, an unforced error, a self-inflicted wound. when we were trying to figure out how trump got elected against all odds, we looked at a lot of economic pressures on some american voters. but the fact is cultural discomfort with an increasingly diverse society, one that allows gay marriage and transgender bathrooms and all that, i think that was a big force behind the voters went to trump. and that is part of what -- that is a card he continues to play in keeping the support of his base voters as president. >> i agree.
i think a lot of people were not comfortable with all the changes going on. too many too fast, older people especially. and i also think the democrats were a little frisky. they seem to like the changes. they want more and more and more, and the people said enough. slow this train. even in the burbs people would have changed their minds. >> well, on race, as i've looked at it, and sort of about a sooshd lot of this, particularly the charlottesville period between that saturday and tuesday, what i saw the president do effectively, and what he did throughout the campaign is pick at the scab of race. picked at it, picked at it, picked at it until it became a wound again. the heals process that had begun in the '50s and '60s, the marches, the great speeches by king, certainly involving the assassination of leaders, all of that came flashing back for a
lot of people. and now you saw young men in their early 20s and teens in nicely tailored suit, not hoods, not with torches, but with tiki torches, out saying and protesting and claiming the same thing around issues of race that our parents and our grandparents had to deal with. and that for a lot of people was just very unsettling. and the one person you go to in that moment, as we have, we turned to reagan. we turned to johnson. we turned to our presidents to sort of help us process and deal with this, he was the man who was picking at the scab. >> he was going the wrong way. >> he was going the wrong way. >> what do you make of the fact that roy moore, the recent candidate for senator from alabama saying he liked it back when the families reunited during slavery. the one thing everybody knows about black families, the way the money business of slavery worked, if this guy, send him out to oklahoma some where. this guy, they divided up the
families like they weren't even a family there was no unity of family. i'm talking about the slave trade. >> and at a bigger level, and i don't want to get too much into it, there is a problem right now where you actually have school books that actually want to sanitize the history of the united states. in texas particular, they want to say that slavery was actually an economic gain for the folks that were involved in it. that is not true. >> you mean the slaves? >> yes. that it was benefit. >> they got free food. they had a roof over their head. i've heard this. >> this is like the original american plan. >> exactly. >> you get three squares a day with your job. unfortunately somebody is whipping you and you're in shackles and the boss is having sex with your daughter or your wife because he feels like it. >> they tried to delegitimize an actual american experience. the bigger problem with the republican party is he is basically betting on that brand to continue getting him elected. but how are they going to basically rise from this if he is continuously polarizing the american people along race. >> the suburban voter is embarrassed by. this they may have left the city as part of white flight a generation ago.
they're embarrassed by racism. they are embarrassed by it. they don't want to vote for a president they believe is a race guy. >> the fact even after charlottesville, you had tillerson come out you. had mattis telling the troops, hold the line, because stuff is going a little bananas back home tells you not nerve his cabinet actually believes this, even republicans. >> doesn't believe what, maria? >> they don't believe that the divisiveness that the president is propagating when it comes to race. >> they don't support it that. >> don't support it. they don't believe in it. >> the suburbs are increase leg diverse. the suburbs are no long -- >> and the ultimate -- >> but -- [ overlapping dialog ] >> we still sanitize race. we still sanitize the conversation around race. and that's something that has to change in order to effectively deal wit. >> that conversation will not be led by mr. trump. a year marked by fierce battles with fellow members of the gop. you're watching "hardball."
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and he has not risen to the occasion. i think the worst of it is going to be just the whole debasing over our nation. >> welcome back to "hardball." those republican senators warning about the threat posed by donald trump. it can't be more clear than that. trump responded of course with his own attacks. he called senator corker a lightweight and incompetent, neither which i think are true and somebody who couldn't get elected dog catcher in tennessee. he has been elected senator a few times. here is what he said about senator jeff flake. >> he came out with his horrible book, and i said who is this guy? the first time i saw him on television, i assume he is a democrat. he a democrat? they said he is a republican. i said that's impossible. so look. his poll numbers are terrible. he has done terribly for the great people of arizona, a state that likes donald trump very much, as even you will admit. and he would have never won. >> well, the republican party has never been so divided. certainly not in the television age. senators openly defy their party's leader now.
the president backed a senate candidate in alabama accused of mistreating teenaged girls against the will of nearly every republican in washington. he battled a sick war hero john mccain. he reportedly fought to keep mitt romney, 2012 nominee for president out of the senate. and steve bannon mocked the majority mitch mcconnell with more venom than he showed democrats. what's going on in the gop? susan, it's really interesting. there still a non-trump republican party? >> no. i think what's interesting is the republican party is deeply divided. it's really fractured. and yet the only people willing to directly take on trump are people who do not plan to run for reelection like senator flake and senator corker. this is the party of trump. they are tied to him. and i don't think there is any getting away from that. >> why, michael? is that true? >> i ask that question, why. >> where they won't even wink at somebody and say i don't really like this guy. >> because the real bottom line is when they go back to their congressional districts and they
look at their states, they see that a significant portion of that base republican vote is still with the president. so that 32, 33% is made up of largely 75 or 80% of the republican party. and that is -- as long as that number is where it is, you're not going see the kind of movement away from the president that people talk to you and all of us about in the shadows of washington. with the low whispers and the rolled eyes. >> yeah. >> you'll get more of that next year as the campaign for 2018 heats up and they start looking at their poll numbers and they realize it's either me or him. and the reality for a lot of republicans is right now the him, the donald trump is winning in their districts and their backyards, and they're caught in this hot spot. >> but i actually think where we're seeing the republican party is really rea reflection of two me. what i mean by that is the established republican party has always been the party of big business and small government. the nationalist wing is all about rural america. and rural america has been left behind.
they're battling an opiate epidemic. they feel that trade and globalization keeps them further behind. and their communities are changing rather quickly. and the republican party, the establishment has not actually addressed that in any meaningful way. and so what you're going to see i think you're going to continue to see is this push-pull. if you were to ask, all things being equal, let's just forget what happened in alabama, steve bannon and his wing of the party is going to continue to get stronger because he is part of a bigger apparatus of misinformation that the republican party, the established republican party has yet to figure out. they're playing by the old rules -- >> let me try the suburbs, which i think is happening. i think the suburbs have been shifting not just in virginia but certainly alabama.
the suburbs gave trump his victory. we were all shocked by it. we thought especially suburb women would be completely against. they weren't. they went trump. i look at peter king can, a classic. an irish guy. i know about this good night. he is from long island, i guess, outside new york. not rich suburb, middle-middle. he took a hard shot at steve bannon this week. he said he looked like a disheveled drunk. that's pretty strong. could bit the suburban guy, meehan, fitzpatrick are at least willing to take on bannon and bannonism, if not trump? >> yes. and they're in a better position to do so because they're less at risk of being knocked off by a bannon candidate in a primary. if you look at the results -- >> i just love not being the smartest person on the show. you're always outsmarting me. >> not true. >> that is so smart. yeah. the alt-right means nothing in the burbs. >> if you look at not just alabama but new jersey and virginia, where we had elections recently, all of them showed this kind of shift in the suburbs and college educated women. >> they see bannonism as a proeshs loser, a person who is going to bring their party down. >> that's what he is trying to do. the fact that he went to alabama so many times, even though trump was not supporting him more originally, for bannon, nationalism is much more
important. and what we're seeing right now is a fight between -- usually it's between the north and the south of the republican party. right now it's actually rural and the elite, the urban. and that's actually a different calculation. >> here is trump ally steve bannon has spent the past year campaigning against leaders of the republican party, especially mitch mcconnell. and mcconnell has hit back. let's watch the two of them go at it. >> mitch mcconnell and this permanent political class is the most corrupt and incompetent group of individuals in this country. we are declaring war on the republican blem establishment that does not back the agenda that donald trump ron on. there. >> is a time and season for everything. and right now it's a season of war against a gop establishment. >> you have to nominate people who can actually win because winners make policy and lose goers home. >> what he is a specialist in is nominating people who lose.
>> you know, i was looking at the costuming of mr. steve bannon. i want to have my friend here who is very good at saying. first he wears the army fatigue. he is sensing he is sort of a revolutionary, he has that look, disheveled look. i should say with the black shirt. but he did have it on. what do we make of all that, the costume? >> it's the common man thing. its rumpled clothing. it's the green fatigues or whatever to show that i'm -- >> the black shirt. >> i'm the bad guy. i'm the guy who is willing to be the bad guy for you and all that. >> i was thinking more of the '30s. >> all of that works. but here is the problem. going back to what maria said, this is something that has been going on inside the party since reagan left office, this internal frustration over what is conservatism versus what is republicanism. and what bannon and trump have been able to do is come in and say that's not really important that is important is what we say is important. and with absent some clear
definition of those two principles, conservatism and republicanism, they've been able to come in, to go back to those folks who have been frustrated about the economy and their station in life and play that particular card. as long as they're able to do that, they'll be successful. i think you'll see next year candidates come up and begin to push back against that narrative because the party's futureston line. >> i don't disagree. but we are underestimating the power of misinformation. the fact that breitbart news right now is part of the official federal clips that every agency receives should concern us. >> that's because of this government, this administration. >> but that is seeding misinformation. what they suns that currency. by creating doubt in the american people that anything that the government is doing, or that anything that might be true is the maybe false, that is the -- that's unfortunately the game that the republican party or the democratic party has yet to figure out how to win. they're playing by a completely different set of rules. and for them it's not about 2018. they're here for the long haul, for the long game.
>> let's talk about the long haul. you have -- i have a sense that when i'm 90 years old, i'm going to be seeing mitch mcconnell as senate lead over the republican party, minority or majority. i'm going see john cornyn waiting for his turn. this pecking order doesn't seem like -- they're like certain kinds of insects that survive all kinds of changes. >> wow. >> all kinds of changes. i think they know how to do it. i think mitch mcconnell and roy blount, a bunch of these guys are skilled at reelection. they know how to save themselves politically. that's one great talent they have. and trump doesn't have that. trump could wear out -- he could be a sell by date by next month, for all we know. we don't know how fast this thing is wearing out. >> mitch mcconnell had this battle before. he had it in 2010 when the tea party rose up.
>> yeah. >> managed to out -- >> who outlasts? >> mitch mcconnell is the one with the history of surviving. >> i think that's exactly right. what mcconnell understands is he plays long ball. trump thinks he plays long ball. >> but we're not playing by their rules. for bannon, trump is just a vehicle of his nationalist agenda. it doesn't matter if he expires in three and a half years. >> bannon? >> not him. >> he looks like he is rung. he looks like a european right wing candidate. anti-immigrant candidate. up next, our panel stays with us. when we come back, three predictions for 2018. one each, and they're going to you wouldn't do only half
woman on steroids. we're going see a record number of women elected to the house and senate. and what's more important, that is going to have -- that's going to help change some of the fundamental ways in which congress operates. >> big women will be like '94. >> but more. '92. >> on steroids. i agree with that. and because i agree with that, i have to say this. the house that steel built ain't going to be there no more. because they've torn up the floorboards and knocked out the windows. and the house will fall for republicans. >> fall to the democrats. how about the senate? >> the senate is a little bit closer.
i think because they have more at stake and in play on the democratic side, particularly where the president won and where he won big. but the senate is now in play. >> michael steele just made news. >> i completely agree. that is going to go through the heart of the latino community. what i mean may be the is nevada and arizona are going to be in play. but what we saw in virginia and what we saw in alabama is not only was it the fierce vote of women, but also the fierce vote of young people coming out. and the fierce vote of people of color for a long time. the work that i do, we talk about this emerging new majority of americans. and that is what is going to flip the house. >> i hope if the democrats get the house back that. >> take a comprehensive immigration bill. pass it, send it to the senate and jam them on it. anyway, make them pass it. i want to thank our panel. because in the senate you can bring it up. >> that's right. >> our panel, susan page, michael steele who made news tonight and maria therese is a kumar. we'll be right back right after this. hi, i'm the internet! you know what's difficult?
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this sunday looking back at 2017 and ahead to 2018. president trump. did he keep his promises? >> i will be the greatest jobs president that god has ever created. >> the tax relief will be concentrated on the working and middle class. >> i will be president for all america. >> we'll look at promises made, promises kept and promises broken. plus, the 2018 political landscape. democrats aimed to take back congress. >> you can smell a wave coming. our republican friends better look out. >> but republicans hope to hang on to power. >> very optimistic about 2018. >> also, 2020. potential candidates are already