tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC January 20, 2018 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
that's it for this special saturday night edition of "hardball." join me every night at 7:00 p.m. monday through friday. ali velshi, great guy, picks up our coverage right now. >> excellent show, chris. thank you very much for it. have a good rest of your weekend. tonight on the one year anniversary of donald trump's inauguration, instead of attending a high-dollar party at his property in florida, he's in washington dealing with a government shutdown as hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets in women's marches across the country. on capitol hill, lawmakers have been working on a deal to reopen the government, but with partisan tensions running high, the end is nowhere in sight. good evening from mississipmsnbc headquarters in new york. i'm ali velshi. we're 20 hours into a government shutdown. we are no closer to a break through. not long ago, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell took the
floor at the senate to point the finger at his democratic counterpart chuck schumer. >> the democratic leader took the extraordinary step of fill bustering th eri -- filibustering this bipartisan bill and initiating his own government shutdown. he wants to keep the government shut down for hundreds of millions of americans until we finish negotiating on the subject of illegal immigration. >> schumer, for his part, didn't fire back. he cast the blame in a different direction, holding a formal press conference to describe how his direct talks with the president fell apart. >> negotiating with this white house is like negotiating with jell-o. it's next to impossible. as soon as you take one step forward, the hard right forces the president three steps back. so here we are. on the first anniversary of the president's inauguration, mired in the trump shutdown.
>> nbc's garrett haake, who has been working triple duty, joining me live from capitol hill. garrett, you and i were together in the early hours of the morning when this began. there was some sense of potential momentum. the house got into order at 9:00 this morning. the senate at noon. there was some sense that maybe this will be short-lived if they can come to a deal. that does not look like it is on the horizon tonight. >> reporter: no, it doesn't, ali. for all intents and purposes, things are almost exactly as we left them when you and i last spoke on television at 1:00 this morning. this evening, the house has primed the pump by changing the rules on their end, so if and when the senate passes something, anything, the house could act on it quickly. but today, the minority leader in the house, chuck schumer, did not speak in any serious way with mitch mcconnell about a deal. he did not have any conversations with the white house about a deal. democrats and republicans at the top level remain as far apart as
they were the moment last night's vote failed. beneath the leadership level though, there have been some developments. a bipartisan group of senators spent several hours holed up this evening in susan collins, the senator from maine's, office tonight, trying to work out their own deal, their own agreement. potentially, their own off ramp for democrats to say yes to something to end this shutdown deal. think of it as these middle of the road senators trying to manage up to a certain degree and find something that they could then go back to their leaders and say, this is what we have agreed upon. the key figures in this, as they were last night, remain the leaders, of course, but also republicans like lindsey graham, who has been a go-between between the democrats and republicans, trying to broker a deal, extract perhaps even just a promise from mitch mcconnell to get some kind of movement on an immigration deal.
the piece of legislation that is on the table right now looks exactly like the one that failed last night. it would extend government financing, in this case, to february 8th instead of the 16th. beyond that, it is exactly the same. funding the children's health insurance program for six years, delaying some obamacare taxes. as of right now, that's the only vehicle out there. whether something will be rewritten or something will be added to that, we have yet to see. for the moment, it appears almost -- well, it appears, in fact, a certainty that americans will wake up on sunday morning with their government still shut down. right now, there is a vote scheduled for 1:00 in the morning monday. it is possible by monday morning, there might be some kind of deal. for now, tomorrow morning, first thing in the morning sunday morning, americans will wake up with their government shut down for a second day, ali. >> rare to see you or anybody in that hall with nobody behind them. looks like representatives have gone home, senators have gone home. garrett haake, i hope you get to go home. >> reporter: thanks, ali.
i hope so, too. >> have a good one. garrett haake at the united states capitol, where everyone else has gone home. let's go to the white house with jeff b geoff bennett. he's not at mar-a-lago, where he desperately wanted to be for a very, very high-dollar party, celebrating his first year as president. >> reporter: that's right. the white house says if there is no deal, as long as there's no deal, the president will stay here at the white house, working the phones and doing what he can to bring both sides together, ali. i want to go back to something you played at the top of the show. the remarkable moment in which you had chuck schumer recounting that meeting he had here yesterday at the white house with president trump. you don't normally see a lawmaker of chuck schumer's caliber, a party leader, one, you know, publicly speaking about a private conversation he had with the president or, two, suggesting that the president is in some way an unreliable negotiator. it underscores all that is at
stake here. but to the point, schumer says he left the white house on friday with the understanding that he and the president had arrived at the broad outlines of an agreement that included funding for president trump's border wall. at some point, senator schumer says, the president changed his mind under pressure from the far right. earlier today at a hastily arranged white house briefing, i put this question to president trump's budget director, mick mulvaney. here's a bit of the exchange. what's your account of the meeting? i know you weren't in the room, but what is the white house account of the meeting? >> i was in the meeting. i did talk to the chief about it this morning. give an example of how mr. schumer is mischaracterizing the discussions. one of the things, according to the chief, mr. schumer told the president was that i will give you all of the money that you want for your wall. the president said, that's great. i need $20 billion to build the wall. mr. schumer said, no, only 1.6.
>> reporter: our colleague, kasie hunt, who along with garrett has been traversing the halls of the hill all day caught up with schumer and asked about his response to what mulvaney said. >> who said mick mulvaney was not in the room? he doesn't know the truth. i do. >> reporter: how much did you offer the president for the border wall? >> he put a number on the table and we took it. >> reporter: what i think we're seeing in real time, ali, the unintended consequences of having a president who has no real fixed policy positions. the upside is that it allows for more flexibility. the downside, of course, is it leads to the chaos we're seeing and confusion among democrats and republicans about just what the president wants and what he will agree to. meanwhile, the white house tonight, ali, has put out pictures, it says, of the president hard at work during the shutdown. i think we have some of the pictures. we can put them on the screen here. you see the president working the phones. he's walking the west wing. in one photo, he's meeting with
staff, who you also see along in the room, jared and ivanka. these pictures were not taken by independent photo journalists. the white house pool of reporters was not informed of, nor allowed to take these images. these are all images of the white house's doing and releasing to the press. >> wish my desk looked as clean as the president's desk looks now. >> reporter: don't we all. >> we'll check in with you throughout the course of the evening. joining me live now from the cap top, we stopped congressman dan c donovan from leaving. >> good to be with you, ali. >> are all your colleagues gone? >> everybody is on the hill. we adjourned until 2:00 tomorrow. we took votes this evening. one of those votes garrett spoke about, allowing us to disband the rule that wouldn't allow us to vote on something the same day. if the senate sends something over, the house will be able to take up the bill in the same
day. >> the point being, if there is a resolution to this, either a short-term extension or longer-term extension, you can vote on it. if the senate votes on anything different from the continuing resolution that you and the house passed, you have to vote on it again. >> that's correct, ali. >> congressman, let's talk about the leadership. what i'm not understanding here is who is supposed to solve this problem? we have conversations going on between chuck schumer and the president. we have conversations between mitch mcconnell and the president. who is supposed to solve this? is this a mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer thing, or is this the president and both of them? >> the problem seems to be with the democrats over in the senate. we passed the bill on thursday evening that everyone agreed to. it had the normal continuing of government running until february 16th, with the addition of a six-year extension for child health care insurance program. something that some statd state going to run out of money
shortly. my understanding, the senate tried to put things in there that weren't agreed upon. we have to solve the daca program and the immigration problem. >> congressman, you're good about talking to us a lot. there aren't a lot of problems in this country that that many people agree upon. >> right. >> depend oing on the poll numbers, 80% or 90% of people think we need a path of citizenship for daca. i understand the argument, it is not part of an appropriations bill, but it could have been solved. >> it needs to be debated. in the meeting from the senators on both sides of the aisle, it was agreed that any solving of the daca problem would include daca, border security, ending the visa lottery and curtailing, somehow or another, chain migration. those things were agreed upon and need to be debated. ali, not at the point when our government is going to shut down over it.
there is no deadline right now. right now, our military is working overseas to protect our freedoms. they're not getting paid. government has shut down. we have people on the hill who are on furloughs now. this is not what people sent their representative down to washington to do. no one sent us down here to shut their government down. they shut us down here to make it work better for them. >> in the end, as i like to point out, the constitution only has one requirement of members of congress, and it is appropriations. everything else you guys do is not a constitutional requirement. >> right. >> when your phones ring at your constituency office, what answer do you give people? they don't -- you and i care about the politics of this. regular people want the government to work. the statue of liberty is shut down as a result of this closure. there are all sorts of services in the country that are shut down. they need you guys to do your job. >> absolutely right. we passed something on thursday night we thought would solve all of these issues. it was something everyone agreed on. all the continuing resolutions -- and we can debate whether or not it is a good thing to run government in three
or four-week intervals. it isn't. but this is what we have right now. while we debate even that, you have to keep the government open. we have to be able to pay our bills. we have to pay for those children's health care, and we certainly have to pay the brave women and men who protect our freedoms, particularly right now overseas. >> congressman, good to talk to you as always. i hope this gets resolved quickly. dan donovan, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> senator jeff merkley is a democrat from oregon and still on the job, as well. good to see you again. >> very good to be with you. >> great talking with senator donovan, but the bottom line, the solve for this thing is coming from your part of the government, from the senate. it does seem like we're dug in on two sides. democrats seem to be definite about wanting a permanent fix for daca, as do 80% or 90% of americans, and republicans seem definite they'll fix daca but not as a condition of re-opening the government.
>> donovan needs to call up mitch mcconnell and tell him to stop the trump shutdown. last night, we tried to put forward a proposal to keep the government open for three days and mitch mcconnell vetoed it. he has the power to do that under the rules of the senate. we put forward a proposal to stay open for one day to keep the conversations going. we feel like the best thing to do is have the government stay open, do it in short increments in order to create high pressure to get people to the table and get these core issues resolved. we have been pushing since last summer for funding to address the opioid crisis across america. there's bipartisan support. we've been pushing since last summer to reauthorize our community health clinics. there's bipartisan support. we've been saying, let's settle the issue of the status of the members of our community who have lived here since children, are contributing members and need to have that resolved. there's bipartisan support. >> let me ask you, and i get the argument because you heard me make it with donovan, that this
could have been solved. everybody had a lot of time. there are these six senators who have come up with a plan that seems to have some broad support, at least a basis for having the conversation. but in the end, how do you answer the republican argument that this hasn't got anything to do with an appropriations bill and a continuing resolution which is your obligation as members of the united states congress? >> well, two things. first, any significant continuing resolution or appropriations bill generally has some policy elements in it. people always make that argument. it's a little like states rights. they make it when it is convenient. the second is we offered a straight continuing resolution last night. we did it in order to keep the government open. the republican leadership shut it down. so it's ingenuous to argue this is the result of democrats because we tried to keep it open. mitch mcconnell said no. >> what happens? when does this end, in your opinion? >> well, really, here's the
challenge, you've got a president who says, i want to solve daca. i want it to be part of it. he is supportive and says, bring me a bipartisan solution. the bipartisan team goes to the white house. he says, i've been talking to the right wing. >> it is incredible. the whole country heard it, he invited the cameras in to where he said, if you bring me a bipartisan bill, i'm good with it, and then he wasn't good with it. >> he wasn't good with it. he had a positive, constructive conversation with senator schumer. a few hours later, if you talk to the right-wing republicans in the party, they didn't want him to move forward and he bailed. there's no there in terms of what he is willing to stand up and fight for. despite the fact just the week before, he said, bring it to me and i'll take the heat. turns out he can't take any heat. >> the president -- chuck schumer says he's like dealing with jell-o. you're pointing out it is the right wing of the republican
party doing this. is it jell-o or is this conservative policy? >> well, jell-o is a good representation of the fact that there's no firm spine about how to take on the issues we're facing. here, the president has a set of bipartisan proposals so, therefore, it should be an easy deal to close. he is essentially terrified of the breitbart wing of the republican party. so he doesn't have the courage to take it and say, let's be the closer and close the deal. here's the right thing to do. >> senator, thank you very much. i hope this ends soon. senator merkley. we're going to check in on the massive marches that took place on the anniversary of the president's inauguration. and the anniversary bash at mar-a-lago. trump can't go thanks to the shutdown. we'll go down to florida and tell you what's going on at the party. even if you're healthy.
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instead of in florida at mar-a-lago. interesting because it is january and cold in washington and warm at mar-a-lago. there's more to it. he really didn't want to be in washington. trump was supposed to be headlining a gala fundraiser tonight to mark the one-year anniversary of his administration. this is a party. tickets for the party started at $100,000 a pair, which pays for dinner and a photograph with the president. for $250,000, the couple would be able to take part in a roundtable with the president. because of the shutdown, trump decided not to go to the fundraiser, maybe because he had to be in washington to negotiate, maybe because it would have looked bad. he is still in washington, as geoff bennett was saying, but the party is still on. we turn to nbc news white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, who is in palm beach, florida, close to but not at the party. would have been a fun way to
spend an evening. the party is going on. $100,000 a couple or $250,000 a couple, and the president isn't there. >> reporter: well, disappointment probably for those who wrote those big checks, which fund both the trump re-election campaign and the rnc, the republican national committee jointly. instead, the party chairwoman, mcdaniel, and the president's sons, don junior and eric trump, will be stepping in as headliners. of course, it's notable that the two sons are also in charge of the trump organization while they're father is president. so they try to keep that separate from government business. campaign work they tend to take part. there have been other events at mar-a-lago that have been celebrating the inaugural anniversary, but no-show for the president tonight for the reasons you mentioned. we got down here anticipating the president's trip and then stayed, waiting to see if he might be able to make the trip if there was a resolution to the government shutdown. for that photo line opportunity,
$100,000 a pair, to sit at a roundtable and have a discussion with the president, $250,000. we have reached out to campaign and party and white house officials for more details about what's happening. we're not getting many answers. that's not unusual for high-ticket fundraisers at a private club. of course, mar-a-lago is that. either party, they tend to keep the high rollers behind closed doors and not open that to the media. had the president been there, we might have had a better chance of seeing him. he did request coverage. that was turned down. i can tell you from being in palm beach, they also released some of the traffic constraints for those who live or are visiting the area because the president did not show. traffic is flowing a little better. mar-a-lago is also often a target of those who want to protest. we saw some of that again today. although the president is not here, in some ways, his presence is felt, as those who supported him are celebrating one year here in florida, not d.c. >> there was a party earlier
this week for a lot less money where you could hang with eric trump. so tonight -- it was $300, you could go to a party and hang with eric trump. tonight, $100,000 a couple or $250,000 and couple and you get to hang with eric trump and don junior. >> reporter: the one earlier in the week was put together by a group of ladies who call themselves the trumpettes. they've long been supporters of the president. they rented the space or leased the space, however they describe it, at mar-a-lago for using event space. that was -- for bapalm beach, $0 is a low ticket number. eric trump spoke to young republicans in west palm beach, part of the activism each party does to try to get young people to sign up to be a part of reaching out, working in campaigns, that kind of thing. that also happened. so there is sort of a constellation of political inaugural activities in palm
beach. a little glitz and certainly a lot of trying to attract people to the campaign. it's early. the one-year anniversary of being in office already working on a re-elect, it's a hyper sort of schedule. so many things about the president and his organization have been different than we've seen in the past. a no-show tonight for obvious reasons. will there be a rescheduling? we don't know. will we be back to cover the president while he's in palm beach? that i feel confident about. >> kelly o'donnell, good to see you, as always. with me now is jim manley, 21-year veteran of the senate. six of those years as spokesman for former democratic majority leader harry reid. thank you for being with us. jim, what happens next? how does this get solved? garrett haake says the next vote in the house is scheduled for 1:00 a.m. on monday. i suppose that could change. but how does this now mechanically get solved? >> well, i mean, one way to answer it is that i have simply no idea. this is just a hot dumpster fire
of a legislative mess, the likes of which i've rarely seen. no one is able to cut a deal. i hate to sound sorry for senator mcconnell, and to be clear i don't, but he has a real problem is no one knows what the president wants and, more importantly, the president isn't willing to put his thumb on the scale. >> let's talk about this for a second. go back to your days with harry reid. when things like this happen, who, if your opinion, is supposed to be in charge of this? you'd think if the log jam is in the senate, it'd be mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer. but it actually seems to be the president sort of negotiating individually and independently with both of them. >> well, yes, that's true. but the answer to your question is when the big deals were cut, it involved the active involvement of the president of the united states and the house and senate leaders. here we have a situation where this president simply doesn't know how to cut a deal, nor does his team, quite frankly.
you know, he's making promises that he's not following through on. he talks to senator schumer and sends his chief of staff back to tell schumer there's no deal. you know, i think there is a possibility something can get worked out, to be quite honest about it, but i also felt that last night. of course, it fell apart in a spectacular mess. but this is legislative malpractice, the likes of which i've rarely seen. there's a lot of blame to be had by not only this president but speaker ryan and senator mcconnell. >> but half the country -- i'm making it up -- but a big part of the country based on the news they consume thinks this is the schumer shutdown. they think it is a democratic shutdown. they think it is about illegal immigration that has been appended to a continuing resolution about money. that's what they believe. >> yeah. >> what's the argument to say, this bill, this daca thing most americans overwhelmingly support, including most republicans, isn't part of a
continuing resolution? >> the reality is, it takes 60 votes to get anything out of the senate and compromising is a necessity. the reality is, house and senate republicans promised repeatedly to try to deal with the daca issue. they promised repeatedly to deal with the chip issue. that hasn't happened. republicans keep on kicking the can down the road because they can't cut a deal. democrats finally said enough is enough. to be perfectly clear, ali, i'm telling you, the politics of this thing going to work out just fine for democrats in the end. it might be rough going for the next couple days. the ad the trump campaign put out tonight regarding illegal immigrants was absolutely beyond the pail and vile and gross. it is going to get rough before it's over. but in the end, the politics will work out just fine for everyone involved. >> jim manley, thank you for being with me.
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morgan radford was at the march in new york city. there was evidence of it all over the city. what was it like in the center, morgan? >> reporter: ali, this was the second annual women's march. people who filled the streets of new york said what they wanted was simple, equal pay, equal access and equal representation for women. organizers across the country say this fight is just beginning. an army of marches taking over streets in hundreds of cities. calling for change in washington. demanding inclusion in chicago. >> this is what america looks like. >> reporter: and fighting for equality in new york. >> we're out here because women have decided that they want to take back the conversation. they insist on being part of it. >> reporter: today's march takes place a year after organizers staged one of the largest protests in american history. a day after president trump's inauguration. >> people wanted to run toward something, and they ran toward the women's march.
>> reporter: would you have organized this march if president trump hadn't been elected to office? >> we were going to protest regardless of whether it was hillary or donald trump but, of course, donald trump just was a line that had to be drawn for all of us. which helped us harness these millions of people across the world. >> reporter: this year, they say, is about harnessing the momentum and getting women to the polls and into office. >> tell me what democracy looks like. >> this is what democracy looks like. >> reporter: women like kelly fowler who came out today with her daughters. >> last year i marched. then i ran. then i won. >> reporter: fowler marched in last year aes r's rally and was inspired, she ran for state office in virginia and won. >> it was the week after the march. i felt it. i said, i looked at my husband and said, i have to run. i said, i have a responsibility. >> reporter: now the house
delegate for virginia's 21st district, she joins several other women in the state holding office for the first time. an inspiration for millions of women. hoping to change the face of politics. >> we want everyone to know that when we win, it was women who led us to victory. >> reporter: in new york city alone, police estimate more than 200,000 people took to these streets. meanwhile, president trump took to twitter, saying that today was the perfect day for all women to march. celebrating unprecedented economic success and the lowest female unemployment rate in 18 years. these marches aren't over, with more scheduled tomorrow. ali? >> morgan radford in new york city, thank you so much. joining me now is congresswoman of illinois, who has worked with the democratic congressional campaign committee to recruit women to run for office. thank you for being with us. tell me about where you think we are a year after this
inauguration that so animated the women's movement in this country and around the world. have we been able to sustain the energy throughout the course of the last year? >> absolutely. i think the report you just aired showed that. i was at the women's march a year ago in chicago, and i remember arriving there and one of the organizers came out and said, we are expecting 50,000 people today. just to my astonishment, a half hour later, they said, now we think there's 100,000 coming. by the time i hit the stage there, there were 250,000 women in that audience. today in chicago, i don't think you -- your reporter mentioned the size of the crowd, but there were 300,000 today in chicago. so to your question, ali, the momentum is building. we have a record number of women candidates running all over the country. i think that we have a potential to have a very good year.
we just have to keep working. >> that's what i wanted to ask you. obviously, the increased number of women candidates running across the country is a big deal, but what has happened? if the numbers of people who attend the protests have sustained and grown since last year, has there been a tangible conversion into things that benefit women in society and economics? >> well, i think the tangible benefits that still need to come, you know, we have the me too movement going on. we have the times up movement going on. but the real and lasting change comes when places like congress -- and i'm sitting right -- or standing right outside the house floor right now -- is when the makeup of congress, or for that matter, the makeup of state legislatures or city councils, reflects the makeup of america. that'd require about 51% of the elected bodies to be women. i think the real change will be as we elect more women and people who appreciate the
importance of equality for any level, whether it's communities of color or women or anybody who feels underrepresented, including rule america by the way, that's how we're going to bring about real change. when we see those people running for office, getting elected to office. >> congresswoman, thank you for being with us and good luck in resolving the issues you have to work out at congress. congresswoman bustos. after the break, how daca came to be the central fight in this government shutdown, given that last week, the president said he'd sign any bipartisan bill put in front of him. he didn't. that's next. in. hey, dustin. grab a seat. woman: okay. moderator: nice to meet you. have you ever had car trouble in a place like this? (roaring of truck) yes and it was like the worst experience of my life. seven lanes of traffic and i was in the second lane. when i get into my car, i want to know that it's going to get me from point a to point b. well, then i have some good news. chevy is the only brand to receive j.d. power dependability awards for cars, trucks and suvs
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president said. he invited the media in to sit in on a meeting with lawmakers to hear him say, if lawmakers came to an agreement on daca, he'd sign it. a group of bipartisan senators led by dirk durbin on the right, lindsey graham on the left on your screen, did that, and the president dismissed it, calling it, quote, a big step backward, in this tweet on january 12th. now daca sits at the center of the government shutdown, meaning any talks about getting the government up and running again are likely going to have to include what to do about immigration. joining me now is erica andiola, lead organizer for our dream campaign and a daca recipient. you've been tweeting last night, as the government shutdown began. you thanked the democrats but also jeff flake and lindsey graham for standing with you, meaning d.r.e.a.m.ers, i suppose, in this vote. you feel that the pressure that you put on members of congress has born some fruit.
>> absolutely. right now, we have seen that, you know, it's a moment that none of us wanted to see. i want to make sure that people know and understand that d.r.e.a.m.ers did not want a shutdown. no one pushing for the d.r.e.a.m.ers wanted a shutdown. we wanted to make sure the democrats use the leverage that they do have to make things work, to push trump and to push the gop to do the right thing. it needs to get done right now, the d.r.e.a.m. act, chip and other issues very important to this country. the d.r.e.a.m. act is important in my heart because i am a daca recipient and i'm deeply impacted by it. the fact is, we are now at a trump shutdown. that's just the reality. also, you know, a reality is that the movement and the pressure that we created did have, you know, enough weight on democrats to do the right thing. we're grateful for that. we're really hoping that they
continue and finish the job. they're not finished. >> no, they're not. >> we haven't seen the d.r.e.a.m. act. we'll push until it happens. >> here's the worry, you see 80% or 90% of americans support path to immigration for the d.r.e.a.m.ers and they still couldn't get it done. there are forces on the other side saying these things are too liberal. what happens now, in your opinion? what do you want to happen? what message are you spending to l -- sending to lawmakers? >> i mean, the message is simple. we need to get it done. the fact is that trump ended this program. trump needs to make sure that he, you know, steps aside and actually gets the people like flake, like lindsey graham, people who are trying to get something on the table to get it done. also, the message to democrats is right now, like i said before, we're really thankful this happened. this happened because of a lot of pressure. but we still have to make sure that we are pushing for a d.r.e.a.m. act and it is not pushing the rest of us into the
shadows. i mean, that's not what americans want. when people say, more than 80% of americans say they support d.r.e.a.m.ers, it's not saying they support d.r.e.a.m.ers just so their parents can be deported if the d.r.e.a.m. act passes. that's not what americans want. we are a country of values. we value families. >> yup. >> it is important that democrats keep that in mind and we're not using d.r.e.a.m.ers as bargaining chips at this moment. we have a lot of power. we have to keep the momentum going. open up the government again with the d.r.e.a.m. act, with chip and other issues that americans care about. >> erika, thank you very much for the efforts you've been putting into this. erika is a d.r.e.a.m.er. joining me now is illinois's fourth district congressman. thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> what's worrying me, because everything erika says makes sense, but nobody should need convincing on this one. i'm a business guy. i can see the economics of this. >> sure. >> the bottom line is, there are a couple of congressmen, bob
goodlat and michael mccall, put up a bill called securing america's future act, that even the kato institute doesn't like. it is draconian. it criminalizes almost being an undocumented immigrant in america. >> sure. this isn't about the wall. right? i mean, the wall would be just a monumental waste of money, to build a monument to stupidity. that's what the wall would be. but i just want to make it clear from the outset, if that's what it is going to take, i'm ready to trade bricks and mortar for freedom and dekren cency for d.r.e.a.m.ers. take that off the table. here's what happens, ali, you can say all day long, all night long, you can build the wall. here's what they're doing with goodlat. they're going after immigration.
it's not about the wall. they say, let's build the wall to keep the illegal immigrants out. they're threatening our safety. >> this is an important point. this is an important point you're making. >> what they're coming after -- right. >> on the books it looks like a 25% reduction in legal immigration. most people understand our birthrate is low in america and our population is aging, which means we either have to have a lot more babies or we have to bring people in. kato institute says it might reduce legal immigration by 40%, which is what steven miller said at the white house he wants to do. he wants to cut legal immigration, let alone illegal immigration to the country. >> the american public needs to understand, it's not about the wall. if it were a wall, let's vote for the wall, get the funding and they can have their monument to stupidity. we, in exchange for the brick and mortar, will have a free and decent life for d.r.e.a.m.ers. but they want to come after legal immigration, right? they want to cut the pathway. oh, if they'd only come legally. at the same time, they're stopping people. when you stop legal ways of
coming to the united states, you increase the likelihood of illegal immigration. >> yeah. >> so why are they doing that? they're doing that because it is really smoke and mirrors. so here's what -- >> when you say that, what do you mean? you're saying it is code for the fact that what, they want to keep dark-skinned people out of america or other people? >> yes, come on. let's be clear, the mekkxicans e bad people, murderers, rapists and drug dealers. then he says, what are we going to do? build a wall. who is going to pay for it? mexico. it's not about the wall. here's what the chief of staff, the president of the united states, said to us, oh, you know lindsey graham and durbin, that's not bipartisan. they redefined bipartisanship. like-minded people. you have to go to cotton and purdue, people who do not believe in immigration, and reach a solution. all that is is chaos. that is stalemate.
what they're saying is, look, gutierrez, your mom who came here without speaking english, your mom who came here with a grade school education, this was a bad choice, letting her come to america. she didn't contribute to this country. although her son came to the congress of the united states and the chief of staff of the president of the united states said to us, i believe in merit-based immigration, to 25 members of congress. he said, i believe they should come educated, speaking english. i'm looking around the room and i'm saying, almost all of our moms and dads, they did a great job. they made sure we went to school and got to college. voters in 25 congressional districts sent us to the congress of the united states. but that's bad immigration. so it's really about keeping certain people out of the country. didn't the president say that? if we were all from norway, i don't think we'd have much of a problem. that's a really sad commentary. so listen, american public, it's not about the wall. schumer offered them a wall.
dick durbin, to his credit, it must have been so difficult for him, but he went there and b bargained with lindsey graham in a bipartisan way, went to the white house and offered them a wall. what'd they say? no, we want more. we want to deport 11 million people. we want to stop anyone from coming to this country legally as an immigrant. >> congressman, good to talk to you, as always. >> thank you, ali. >> congressman gutierrez. much more on this first day of a government shutdown when we come back. tually, this is good. because um, i've been meaning to talk to you, uh oh. well, you know, you're getting older. um, you might be experiencing some, ah, sensations. ah, it happened to your dad..uh with.. oh, look the tow trucks here! can't wait to be rescued? esurance roadside assistance lets you know when help will arrive. that's insurance for the modern world.® esurance. an allstate company. click or call. you have any questions, uh.. i'm good.
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government has been shut down for almost 21 hours and still no sign of a deal. we want to bring in democratic strategist joy l. williams and mark blazer, and what do you make of this and how does it get fixed? >> well, a lot of the hype about it has been a little bit overblown n. 2013, a poll shoedd
that most people blamed the republicans for the shutdown, but 2014 e llection kind of word out for them pretty well, so one thing about trump being president, between now and november he is going to be saying or doing a million things to put this all in the rear-view mirror i think by the time the election rolls around, so i think that -- >> i hate to agree with you, leon, but you could be right. and we could be talking about something else in 8 or 10 days. and let me bring in l. joy williams, and to a lot of americans, this is not earth shatter or not notice that it is happening, but for those who are getting a paycheck from the government and not military or n nonessential workers, this is central and very important. >> yes, my mother is being one of them and my mother and two sisters work for the military and my mother is a patient advocate at military hospital. >> and is that an essential job? >> well, last time in 2013, she was not essential and there for a day of the week and then
furloughed, so they are trying to figure it out to certainly them, and they remember 2013, and they will remember this one. to your point in terms of moving on the something else, we will, because that is the political climate that we are in at this moment, but what is important for democrats and others who are organizing to make sure that people don't forget and put this in the entire context as this, you know, the something new everyday, and we have to fight for our lives everyday and all of this climate is at trump's feet, and the republican feet, and as long as we continue to remind people of that, and when we come to the election, and when we come to the mid-term elections, we will be able to make choices. >> and when it comes to the dreamer, the republicans are saying that is what is hold iin this up, the fact is so that many americans overwhelmingly support a path for citizenship including republicans and conservatives who say that is the conservative ethos, and they work and don't have misdemeanors
or pay the taxes and either in school or working. and the kind of the immigrants that you probably want, but how do the reps not come out on the wrong side of this, and how do they not end up looking like the people who let the dreamers down some >> and i would lump myself into that, because i do support some form of limited immigration -- >> 9 of 10 americans do. >> and it is to support it and where does it fall on the priority list, and there are iss issues that are 08/20 or outside of certain communities they don't care about it, and so a vast majority of america is in that position, but it is not important enough position, and i for instance a poll was releeasd that was from one of your competitor networks, but most people don't believe a shutdown because of dac asha.
>> well, this did not have to be something that we had to discuss right at this moment, but it became that way, because drtrum made it that way, they changed the rules, and so then -- >> why was trump allowed to do that some. >> well, we are at the space where it is a crisis situation, because you have people, very concerned about their immigration status and very concerned about, you know, i.c.e. and deportation and how to fix it, and so it is a crisis situation that was created by this administration. >> and l. joy, i have to leave, and leon, that is a good question that i want to the leave on, why is trump allowed to do that, but i have to i pay the bills, and so, i thank you both, and i look forward to this conversation, but not while there is a government shutdown i hope. we thank you for watching msnbc.
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