tv Morning Joe MSNBC February 5, 2018 3:00am-6:00am PST
that report. >> that does it for us on this monday morning. congrats to the eagles. "morning joe" starts right now. you're about to witness a live television event. >> this memo is going to be released. i'm told it will shock the conscious. >> a massive concrete vault has been discovered. >> we have not seen the document, but the charges are strong enough to shake public faith. >> this is an adventure you and i will be taking together. >> we're talking about potential crimes, people being charged, going to jail. >> before we do that, let me show you what we may have in here. >> the biggest political scandal in american history. >> the most consequential no question political scandal in american history. >> we searched for four months for some connecting link. >> remember, why was america created? it was about tea tax. this, this is 100 times bigger. >> after hours of digging we got a sense of being on the verge of
a discovery. >> this is earth shaking. it's far bigger than watergate. >> more troubling than the underlying crime in watergate. >> what's the classic phrase? fire in the hole. fire in the hole! we had no real idea what we would find inside. as it turns out, we haven't found very much. >> i actually don't think it has any impact on the russia probe. >> this memo has frankly nothing at all to do with the special counsel. >> it seems, at least up to now, that we've struck out with the vault. i'm disappointed about that, as i'm sure you are. >> wow. is the new republic put it, quote, it would be easy to compare nunes memo to opening al capone's vault. >> let's talk about that first of all. >> poor geraldo. >> you've got to have like great respect for a guy that would do that. i mean, on national television. fire in the hole.
>> geraldo goes there, you know what i mean? that's what we tell our kids to do, take a chance. step out. >> go big or go home. >> no. how often? go big or go home. just looking back at that footage, geraldo went for it. >> he did. >> good for him. but, you can't say the same for the republicans. >> no. the memo finally came out. and despite president trump's insistence that it vindicates him in the russia probe, the timeline, the memo hurts the president's claim, you just have to read it. we'll know today just how partisan the gop's memo may have been when that same committee decides on whether democrats can release their rebuttal. welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, february 5th. with us we have national affairs analyst for nbc news and msnbc john hyalman. national political reporter for nbc news carol lee. political writer for the new york times nick confessore.
former justice department spokesperson and now an nbc justice and security analyst matt miller and get it ready, nbc news capitol hill correspondent host of kasie d.c. on msnbc. >> we reviewed some material from the game last night and saw nothing worth actually showing, so my first question to you has to do with the markets. >> does anybody have nick foles -- >> seemed to be suggesting a slightly lower opening on wall street. what say you? >> i would like to talk about nick foles, joe. do you have a minute for that? >> kasie hunt, eagles fan. that was from start to finish that was probably one of the greatest super bowls ever. and nick foles' story is a story that will be talked about for as long as they talk about super bowls. take it, kasie. >> whoa. >> look, he stepped up in just so many ways.
coming in wentz hurt in december. nobody expected this guy to be carrying the team. the defense, they hung in there. he's really -- he is why we won this game it was kind of epic troll tom brady screwed up his own pass back to himself just a few plays later. foels, i'm not sure if we have that highlight. >> here he is. touchdown. >> there it is, touchdown. yeah. with his wife and baby after the game, i think it was just -- this was a great way for the eagles to finally win a super bowl. i mean, this was a great game from start to finish. >> yeah, it really was. you know what, i didn't understand -- and i spend most of my life trying to explain to grand moms or to little kids and i've got 47 of them, rules of whether it's soccer, football, or american football. and for the life of me i can't figure out what they were replaying 30 times going into the end zone on the touchdown that was plainly a touchdown. they kept saying was he a runner
o or a receiver? whatever that rule was that they had to think about forever, carol, i don't understand it. they need to get rid of it. >> big eagles fan. >> huge eagles fan. born and raised. >> she's in her eagles green today. look at her. >> play that again. what is the controversy here? the man, he has possession. it crosses the goal line. it's a touchdown. >> because if you're a receiver, you have to -- you can't be diving into the end zone in that way. you have to be running. you have to be a runner to be able to do that. so the question is whether he became a runner after he caught the ball. >> but he had control of the ball. long enough to be a runner? he's running? i didn't understand that. so huge eagles fan as well and you're wearing your eagles green. >> i wore my eagles green, yes. it's a huge, huge thing for the city. >> yeah. now, i went to sleep after the game. how much of the city is still
standing? >> not much. i was wondering if those pictures were live. >> here are the things that will affect you most in addition to street lamps and telephone poles, the awning of the ritz carlton in downtown philadelphia collapsed. brought down not under his itself own weight. we have problems. here is the thing -- >> i don't know where -- i don't exactly know where that is. when i go to philadelphia, i stay in super 6 lodge? >> i stay in a place where dan aykroyd stayed in "trading place mrs." sometimes the dupe brothers invite me back to their house. they get it back. >> if i told you before the game that tom brady would pass for over 500 yards. >> yes. >> and that the eagles would still win the game, you would told me i was mental and yet -- >> i still will. >> i know you. that was an incredible thing. it was a fantastic game.
the eagles' defense did not stop tom brady and yet today we have a super bowl champion. >> look, i'm happy in this time of partisan division the country has something to be happy about which is the patriots losing. >> okay. >> come on. there's some people that like the patriots. >> are you familiar with the loyalties of the hosts here? >> oh, yeah. >> the patriots -- mika was for the eagles last night. joey has always been a patriots fan. i always quietly root for the patriots. mika was telling me something -- >> mika is moving on. >> the patriots have been to ten super bowl, which is incredible. their record in the super bowl 5-5. there you go. >> fascinating. >> its is. let's get to the news now. despite the president's deck lor tlags the memo vindicates him in the russia probe, the associated press reported that several white house aides cautioned the president that the memo did not contain convincing evidence of a conspiracy. and other advisers inside and
outside the west wing reportedly questioned why his administration had allowed the memo to become the dominant talking point during the week when he gave his first state of the union overshadowing the well received address. the republican memo ended up containing a sentence that undercuts a central claim the president's defenders have made against the russia probe, that it grew out of an unverified dossier prepared during the campaign. the memo states -- that information about russians and trump foreign policy adviser george papadopoulos, quote, triggered the opening of an fbi counterintelligence investigation in late july of 2016. the memo also revealed that a fisa warned against the trump foreign adviser carter page was caught and received in late october of 2016. that was a month after multiple trump campaign officials had said it had cut all ties with him. doesn't seem helpful.
>> so, matt miller, it doesn't seem helpful at all to donald trump's cause, in fact, it hurt's donald trump's cause. it may bring up a question of this one fisa warrant. and i say may because, again, the central argument for all of these stooges in conservative media i've got to say unfortunately a lot of places that i have respected greatly in the past but a lot of the stooges in conservative media are saying, look at this fisa memo. and it looks like, you know, we have evidence that it was, you know, that they put it out there, the fisa warrant was issued without adequate evidence. well, they know that the central argument, that the intelligence community has been giving, that the fbi has been giving, that the justice department has been giving is we can't tell you the underlying information that justifies the fisa warrant
because, guess what, that's classified information. and again, they know it. but "the wall street journal" is now parodying national nunes. they came close to excusing or parodying devin nunes, all of them knowing better. all of them knowing that it's the underlying information that is classified that the fbi and donald trump's own justice department says we can't show the public. they're taking -- they've become the party of wikileaks and edward snowden. i guess it was only a matter of time until donald trump's thinking affected the entire republican party, even on intel matters. >> yeah, you're exactly right, joe. when we saw this memo, i was ready by the time it came out to sort of be disappointed in the claims and we just found out that we knew that it was going to be -- had a misleading by omission. i was surprised that it was such
a flimsy document on its face. that the argument -- they rested all this argument that somehow the surveillance of carter page was illegal and we found out within minutes that, in fact, the court had been told that the dossier was paid for by a political opponent of donald trump's. it didn't say it was the dnc or hillary clinton campaign, but it was a political opponent. it knocks out that in fact the entire investigation began because of george papadopoulos, not carter page. so it's one thing for devin nunes to pull another one of these stunts. i think we've gotten used to it from him. what is so shocking is the behavior from paul ryan. he knows what he's doing here. and he has -- you have to conclude he has the same goals as devin nunes, he just dresses it up in kind of more principled sounding language where he'll say this isn't about an attack on the fbi. this is about making sure the fisa process is being followed
fairly and he knows better than that. he knows what this is. and if he didn't, the president has made clear what this is all about because he keeps telling everyone this for him is about ending the russia investigation. >> i guess that's the most revealing thing, john. it's not that devin nunes is a hack for donald trump. and it's not that donald trump doesn't give a damn about america's national security classified information as it pertains to him. he will throw anybody or anything under the bus, including the best interest of this nation, if he believes it will give him any advantage whatsoever. and if there's anybody throughout that questions that, i can't wait for you to grab your cheetos and put on your tighty whites and go down to your mom's basement and start typing that blog away. >> join the bots. >> that will be interesting. and by the way, order up your russian bots and you're off to the races.
but for paul ryan, for mitch mcconnell to stay quiet, for "the wall street journal" editorial page to write the kind of editorial that they wrote on saturday, attacking the fbi and lending support, aid and comfort to devin nunes and donald trump when they know better, when they have reporters that have been advancing this story and doing a good and honorable job, for them to slander the fbi and the justice department is just shocking. and "the wall street journal" editorial page, it's an editorial page i have been reading my entire life. >> yeah. >> i could go on. the list goes on. but i sensed something last week, there is a shift, a slight shift, but there is a shift among conservatives who were
honorable toward the fight against donald trump's worst successes, they're starting to buckle. and there are so many who i have great respect for i don't even want to mention their names because i read their columns, i heard them on tv and i was heartbroken. i'm keeping my mouth shut and i'm hoping this week they will find their conscientious again, but it was shameful last week. >> look, you wrote a column hammering paul ryan last week in the washington post. i spent a lot of last week criticizing ryan on television for this very thing. andrew sullivan talks about this moment where we have total tribalism in our politics and the dominant frame for how people now behave, it is now to much greater degree than has ever been true before, it is you don't care about the facts, you don't care about the other interests of the country, it is just tribal leader is at risk
and we must now rally to the tribal leader. "the wall street journal," you know, on friday had a piece, incredibly good piece one of their good reporters looking at the struck e-mails, text messages. >> by the way, it's funny, that was one of the most fascinating stories i've read in a very long time. >> guy sat down and read all 3,000 of the text messages and comes to the conclusion, there was no anti-trump conspiracy here. that's in "the wall street journal" on friday. nobody paid attention because of the nunes memo. i'm looking at it on a plane, the wall street is still doing good reporting on this. >> "the wall street journal" is pushing this forward. i said that on saturday. >> then on saturday, the editorial page was weighing in on this way, they're behaving in this tribal way, it's all just to protect trump. >> by the way f you're at home, you may not understand this, but there is a chinese wall between news reporting and the editorial page. what happens in the editorial page happens on the editorial
page. what happens in the reporting is completely different. and there always has been a division, especially at "the wall street journal," a very conservative editorial page, but you've had reporters for 25 years, even during the clinton scandals when the editorial page was hammering away at clinton, "the wall street journal" played it straight down the middle on clinton's administration. >> what is the disconnect for paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, who i guess i must add's wife works in the administration. maybe that plays a role, but don't they read? these are people who were elected to be leaders who i think democrats and republicans thought they could count on to do the right thing at times like this. >> look, i find it baffling and it goes back to the election. if you recall when harry reid asked for the fbi to release information about an investigation into trump and it was phrased in very general
terms. >> right. >> and mitch mcconnell said no and now we have a sense i think of what reid was speaking about because he had some access to this information a long time ago and the investigation into carter page and george papadopoulos. look, this party is made an alliance with donald trump. but they have a lot at stake and they have decided to be invested in shaping his presidency and protecting it even at the expense of these other institutions of law enforcement and government. >> the incredible thing, carol lee, is again everybody is tribal, everybody has been tribal. i've been -- i was deeply disappointed in other administrations that people that i knew that went into the administrations, it's almost like they put their brains on neutral and just did what fearless leader told them to do. that happens across administrations. but this is a war on law. this is a war on justice.
this is a war on the justice department. this is a war on the fbi. this is a war on investigators who are investigating the white house. this is a republican party taking part in obstruction of justice. at least on a political level. >> and it's all -- it's like short -- everyone is thinking in the short term. everything is done on the short term. it's political short-term benefits. the president thinks that way. you see the republicans adopting that. the idea that this is not going to have a long-term effect on the party particularly when it comes to, as "the washington post" wrote over the weekend, this law and order, the party of law and order is now being reshaped by donald trump. donald trump is reshaping it in a number of different ways. if you add them all up together, the one common denominator is for a short-term political gain. how do you hold on to this majority? but there are going to be very long-term consequences.
>> the party of law and order, the party that talked about the importance of protecting classified documents, that talked about the importance of classified information that preached to us through the entire hillary clinton campaign and through that investigation, there's a c on that. oh my gosh, how many classified information. oh any god. they went on and on and were breathless and now, now they're the ones, kasie hunt, who are attacking the fbi and attacking the justice department and are ignoring the pleas of the head of the fbi, a republican appointed by donald trump. and republicans in the justice department who are saying, don't release the info. if you release the memo, it gives an incomplete picture. the only complete picture that can be given is by releasing information that is so classified that it would hurt
our sources. then this weekend, there were republicans and conservatives saying, let's have total transparency. let's just release everything. they have adopted edward snowden and wikileak's view of national security. how do they go back to the voters in the fall and justify this? >> it's an astonishing turn of the events, joe. and i was very struck by what trey gowdy said over the weekend because he -- and you have to keep in mind that paul ryan views trey gowdy kind of his man on the intelligence committee. that's the relationship there. remember it's a select committee. paul ryan chooses the members. and gowdy was one of the only ones who was out there saying this memo from devin nunes has no connection to the mueller investigation. and what you saw him doing instead was ticking through all of the reasons why that investigation is legitimate, all of the other data points that
have the -- that underlie these investigations in some ways making the case against the president, which i thought was remarkable. it's also an astonishing breech -- >> casey, it's almost as if oh my god, it's almost as if trey gowdy is an officer of the court. it's almost as if he is an attorney that understands the importance of the rule of law because he did. he actually talked straight on "face the nation "". >> he was one of the only republicans who did, joe. the house intelligence committee was supposed to be bipartisan. it was created so that the american public knows that there's an independent body overseeing the intelligence community. that's an incredibly important function, but it's also based on the idea that the intelligence community has to trust that they are not going to act for partisan gain. >> right. >> that completely screws the entire system up. and this rule that they used to
put this memo out has literally never been used before and is basically supposed to be designed as a siren from congress over the intelligence community in a major breach of trust. that's clearly not what's going on here. >> i still don't know what the alliance is based on. >> what do you mean? >> you usually have to trust someone for that. >> they're just scared. >> it's amazing. >> they're just scared of their base, i guess. they're scared of crossing their base. they're scared that they will be primaried. and they are guaranteeing their defeat in the fall. >> this does not end well. still ahead on "morning joe," more on how devin nunes is somehow coming to define the republican party. >> oh my lord, i'm so glad i left that party. >> fisa judge would allow such a thing based on an unverifieds do ya, it sounds very nunes. >> that's now an adjective? >> there's a history, chris. you can't ignore history when you're talking about the present. you can't.
>> no, you can't. >> now nunes says he's preparing more memos. >> seriously? >> he is becoming a newman from seinfeld. >> when is paul ryan going to -- >> he is. >> -- going to stop the humiliation of the degradation. the house intel chairman holds a press conference and says he has information to prove improper unmasking. and we're going to get to the bottom of this whole barack obama wiretap thing, right? he has no information. he's lying to the press. and he's lying to americans. he's lying to reporters. he then rushes over to the white house and they hand him information. here, do this. because he said i'm going to go over to the white house and deliver them the information that i've just discovered. and there were some other republicans at the time going, he's got this information. this is most shocking information. he had nothing. >> nothing.
>> he wasn't even holding like a busted straight or flush. he had nothing. >> this is a tease. >> i know. but then he goes to the white house -- >> it's a very deep tease. >> here. they give it back to him. >> he's newman. >> he's newman the courier. then he goes out and holds a press conference still nothing. nothing. there was nothing there. >> absolutely nothing. it's a show about nothing. >> it's the same thing about this memo. they build it up. they build up. they build it up. >> and then it's about nothing or something that hurts them. plus, former c.i.a. director john brennan joins us. >> let me tell you a story. >> please don't. also, senators kamila harris and chris coons when we come back. ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is
what can a president [ do in thirty seconds? he can fire an fbi director who won't pledge his loyalty. he can order the deportation of a million immigrant children. he can threaten an unstable dictator armed with nuclear weapons. he can go into a rage and enter the nuclear launch codes. how bad does it have to get before congress does something?
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call phase two of our investigation, which involves other departments, specifically the state department and some of the involvement that they had in this. >> phase two is where they take off the clown nose. >> as devin nunes previewed, friday's memo isn't the last to target government departments. there could be as much as five additional memos or reports that claim wrong doing ahead. nunes said, this was phase one that resulted with the memo designed to go public. there's not plans of additional classified information that would come forward through the same process. >> oh, how nice, matt miller. he's not going to release a classified information that actually compromises a fisa process or other top secret processes. how comforting. >> yeah. he's a little bit like o.j. still out there looking for the real killers. let's remember what his job is. his job is the chairman of the intelligence committee is to
find out, to investigate what happened, how the russians interfered in our election and whether there's anything we should do to stop it in the process. instead, his entire investigation now seems to be kind of going across various parts of the government to see if there's anyone that did anything to try to blow the whistle to try to help stop russian interference and find out what happened. i mean, he is investigating the investigators. and i think -- i was going to say, i think the worry is the damage he's done to law enforcement here. you see it repeated at state departments and other branchs of the government really damaging long-term consequences from what devin nunes is doing. >> carol, how extraordinary is it really when you stop back and think, you've got the chairman of a house intelligence committee that's always been seen as a bit partisan committee, who is now actually on one witch hunt after another, just swinging wildly at windmil windmills. now he's saying now instead of
focussing on how the russians tried to impact our election, my gosh, all the other intel concerns that we have, maybe an isis attack on the united states, instead he is going to go from cabinet to -- i mean, agency to agency to agency trying to run resistance for donald trump. >> yeah. it's hard to see that as anything other than just trying to undermine the russia investigation. and you know, we've been talking about how underwhelming the memo was, but at the same time, it did have the effect of sewing all sorts of doubt about the integrity of the fbi, the integrity of this investigation. you know, in the end, i think the broader goal here seems to be to just whatever result robert mueller comes out with at the end of this investigation, there's a public, there's a campaign to win public opinion here. that's where the memo and whatever he's headed next whether the state department or somewhere else, that all seems to be designed towards that
agenda. the state department piece is interesting because victoria nuland was on sunday yesterday saying that they had received the dossier. you can see where maybe he's going in that direction, that might be the direction that he's pursuing in the state department. >> it will be interesting to see one of the arguments for those defenders of the nunes process is that this -- there must be oversight. we all agree there should be congressional oversight of the intelligence committee and elsewhere. it's interesting to see what pretext he uses to justify these other investigations because although there is obviously an intelligence under the state department, the state department is not generally conducted by the intelligence committee. so, how nunes justifies going from agency to agency, next thing at the agriculture department and next time at the transportation department, who knows. >> there may be house chairman
or chairwoman that says stay out of my lane. >> that would be good to do that. >> matt miller, thank you very much. >> yeah. >> and before we go to break, we want to mention your band, scarbrough. you should have seen him in boston. >> look at that hair. it helped to raise thousands of dollars and mika came out. i don't know if we have a shot of mika coming out with a guitar. so we got that guitar -- the benefits go for disadvantaged kids scholarships. >> great, great organizations. >> the impact he had with disadvantaged kids in boston, incredible. >> mika got that up to $3,400 and then we got somebody on the other side of the stage to match it. so, at the end of the day, $7,000 there plus tens of thousands of dollars. >> looks like you have that guitar up there effortlessly in one hand. >> okay. anyhow.
the band was fantastic. >> there we go. so, john, we're looking at these pictures, you say that you spent way too much time at the paradise. >> it's one of the great rock clubs, music venues in boston and has been for a long time. i'm impressed and jealous that you were there. >> john, they were so good. the crowd loved them. >> if you're an important band and you came through boston over the course of the 24r50st years, that's one of the key places you go to stage. prince played on that stage. >> no. >> among many other great performers. >> if that's the case, then i can say that saturday night at the paradise was a shabby end to a great era. i destroyed it for everybody. nobody will ever play there again. speaking of prince, no justin timberlake with a hologram, no. and no truck selling commercial to mlk and his voice selling what, ram trucks? >> well, yeah. >> i mean, you can't even get
the family to play the "i have a dream" speech. they squeeze the rights to all of his words so much. and then they sell it for a dodge truck commercial or ram? what's ram thinking? >> i don't know. look, it's time for a -- >> later in the speech he talked about how people shouldn't waste their money on cars. >> exactly. it was a speech about consumerism. right? i think it's a time for moratorium on all uses of king speeches in commercials. >> yeah. that's become an ugly -- >> come on. >> that's another story. still ahead, the huge buildup and quick deflation of the memo story. >> hold on one second. can you guys -- can we get that? it's not that hard to get out. wa-wa-wa. can we get that next time we show devin nunes, alex, can you work that? >> congress should have been working on ways to keep the government open with the threat
of another shutdown looming this week, senators chris coons and john mccain are set to introduce new bipartisan immigration bill today. senator coons joins us next to explain the likelihood of whether it will pass given that it leaves out some of trump's priorities. "morning joe" will be right back. >> you have to love q going straight to david jones and the monkees. turn it up. this is laura. and butch. and tank. and tiny. and this is laura's mobile dog grooming palace. laura can clean up a retriever that rolled in foxtails, but she's not much on "articles of organization." articles of what? so, she turned to legalzoom. they helped me out. she means we helped with her llc, trademark, and a lot of other legal stuff that's a part of running a business. so laura can get back to the dogs. would you sit still?
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with just four days to go before the next -- >> by the way, we're talking about the vietnam documentary series. >> it's good. thank you for showing it to me. >> it's as good as anything i've ever seen. >> it's amazing. >> it's one of the most amazing things i've ever seen. >> it stops you in your tracks and makes you think about where we are. >> i'm saying it's -- i'm dead serious here. it is the most important movie film series, tv show, anything i've seen in my entire life. it explains where we are today. >> yeah. >> it explains the divisions. it explains how vietnam created the modern era. and it also shows why people voted for trump, why people are on the other side. i mean, the lies told.
>> how things get out of hand. >> by jfk, by lbj, by nixon, by kissen jer. >> and the seeds of the polarization, right? >> but the seeds of the polarization, people don't trust their government anymore. anything goes back there. i made the comment back in '94 when i was campaigning after knocking on three or four doors. everybody is either on jane fonda's side or john wayne's side. it brought those two sides together and you would have soldiers crying about what happened. you would have war protesters, you know. there's one scene where you just teared up so many times where one protester is crying. he said i can't believe these young men went through hell for five years in vietnam. they got off a bus and i spit on them. i said things to them. the things we yelled at them. she just started crying. she said it haunts me everyday. i was so young. >> everybody looks back. >> but there's so much grace in
there. and what you see is all of these actors, whether it's the soldiers whether it's the protesters, whether it's even jane fonda and you look at them and go, oh my god, they were so young. and as parents of children older than those people, you just sat there and you actually ached for everybody. >> uh-huh. >> and except for the leaders. who knew. kennedy knew said we can't win there. johnson knew before we went in. we can't win there. but for kennedy, he was like, we can't win there but we sure can't pull out before the '64 election. lbj, we can't win there, but i can't look like i'm weak on communism. nixon, we can't win there, but gee, he and kiss enjer, we can't pull out before the '72 re-election. by the time it's over, because they're worried about not losing a war they know they can't win, 58,000 americans die and up to 2
million vietnamese die. >> it was a disaster. >> the north vietnamese leaders, too just kept throwing their people at americans, just getting slaughtered, knowing that we were desperate to get out of their country. there were so many missteps by leaders on all side. but ken burns shows uncommon grace. actually shows this created the modern era. >> it's amazing. everyone should see it. republican senator john mccain and senator chris coons are set to introduce a multi-pronged immigration bill and senator chris coons of delaware joins now. good to have you on board this morning. >> senator, so let's start by talking about the devin nunes memo. sound effects, please. the devin nunes memo. there we go. thank you. we were just testing that out, senator. i'm sorry you had to be on camera when we did it. but a lot was promised. very little delivered. and yet it's significant because a war was declared by the president. >> a lot of time was wasted.
>> on the fbi and the justice department. where are we today? and should the democratic memo be released today? >> well, joe, that sounds a lot like the patriots in the super bowl last night. a lot was promised but not enough was delivered. it's a great morning to be in philadelphia. and i'll tell you, i have the same reaction to the memo by devin nunes that you do. i've got the memo right here. and frankly, if folks haven't read it, they should. because it doesn't provide the vindication president trump is claiming. it makes it clear, in fact, that the investigation was well under way before the steele, dossier was ever brought forward and it points to papadopoulos, another trump campaign aide who pled guilty and is cooperating as the source of the initial intelligence that began the investigation into the possibility of collusion between the trump campaign and russia. i am encouraged, joe, that there are a few republicans like trey
gowdy saying on the sunday shows and in public that this doesn't have anything to do with trying to undermine or derail robert mueller's investigation. my partner in immigration legislation senator john mccain, a general hero of the vietnam war that you were just referencing, said the president is not doing enough to stand up to russia, that the investigation being led by robert mueller should go on and that this memo shouldn't be allowed to distract from it. i think we should be seeing a release of the democratic memo once properly vetted by the doj and fbi. i think it will provide a thorough counterpoint and i think it is rooted in the intelligence that the nunes memo wasn't. >> yeah. >> devin nunes, the chairman of house intelligence, has made it clear he didn't even read the underlying intelligence. trey gowdy did. and i think therein lies the difference between how the two
of them are characterizing this brief and partisan and misleading memo. >> nick confessore. >> senator, good morning. so you have here a bill that offers a path to citizenship for the dreamers and a study of border security, but no money for the wall. so what's the carrot will say this is amnesty, they can't back it? what's the path forward to get this through the senate and perhaps the house? >> first, i'm deeply honored that senator mccain reached out to me, someone who has long been known as a very forceful advocate for full funding for the department of defense. he's trying to join with me and get this immigration conversation restarted in a positive direction in the senate. this is a copy of the bill that has been championed in the house by republican congressman will herd who has 800 miles of texas border in his district near el paso and southern california. it has 27 republican cosponsors
and 27 democratic cosponsors in the house. so in an environment where it's often said oh, this or that proposal can't pass the house, it's important to focus on the fact that this bill that we are introducing today that senator mccain and i are introducing in the senate already has a block of republican cosponsors about the same size as the freedom caucus. you are right in your question, it needs more border investment. it lays out a plan, a pathway, towards securing control of the border by 2020. and i expect that in order for this to be embraced by republicans as the solution that will get us moving forward towards fully funding domestic and defense spending. we will need to add some border funding to it. >> all right. thank you so much, senator chris coons, greatly appreciate it. and go eagles. congratulations. it's funny -- >> he and kasie -- >> just a week ago he was a patriots fan.
any way. he's from delaware. >> hey, kasie, really quickly, you know, it seems to me that democrats overall are holding a losing hand here, if you look at polls. most americans actually are opposed to chain migration or family unification unless you call it to the immediate family. same thing i'm sure the lottery doesn't score well among most americans. most americans want strong border security, if my reading of the polls is correct. and also this idea that the trump administration and others, republicans talking about, bringing highly skilled immigrants into america and not focussing so much on low wage immigrants that drive down wages for working class americans. those are all big winners for republicans and conservative democrats. what leverage does the democratic party have going into this shutdown? >> joe, i think first of all i'm
not sure we're going to see another shutdown. democrats felt they misplayed their hand in a major way. i don't think anybody wants to go through that again. what tension we see on this week at the hill is what the freedom caucus is going to do. but on the immigration question, i think for the politics of it -- and it's not just politics. it's about these kids. and i think there's a real question if, in fact this expires on march 5th and we start to hear terrible, emotional stories of these people being deported. we see pictures of that. there are a lot of democrats who will talk about the fact that they think that's going to really impact the debate and that there really is a real effort to try and find a fix here. i mean, that's the thing. i think for people who are worried about these kids the thing that's so infuriating about this debate, there really is support on both sides. those things you mentioned, the visa lottery, family-based migration, that was all in the comprehensive bill, democrats
and republicans voted for that. right now the president is so toxic it's hard to see a way out. >> kasie hunt, thank you for being on. >> fly eagles fly. >> exactly. we'll talk to talk to a topt taking on a claim in the nunes memo that the -- [ sad trombone ] >> i like it. >> -- withheld key details as they sought a fisa warrant on carter page. the ranking member of the judiciary committee, jerrold nadler, explains why he calls the claim deliberately misleading and deeply wrong on the law. he'll join the table ahead on "morning joe." [ click, keyboard clacking ]
und -- doesn't undermine the mueller investigation, far from it. they all said that the memo's criticism had absolutely nothing do with bob mueller and didn't undermine his work. that is not what the president wants to hear. >> not just what the president wants to hear but not what the president is saying. i believe we put earlier in the show we put up that tweet that he sent on saturday which had one of the more horrific grammatical errors in trump history, confusing the possessive there for the normal there. that's his message. there's no ambiguity about what the president believes. there it is. the memo totally vindicates trump in the probe. russia wind hutch-hunt. >> reality tv show. >> but four republicans on the house intel committee saying that it's not true, that it does nothing to undercut the good work bob mueller is doing. >> and that it doesn't relate in
any way to the russian investigation. it's an interesting development because reporting shows the president was advised by some people in his own white house that this really isn't everything that it's been sold to you that it is and maybe you should hold back on this and he didn't because he wanted to send out that tweet you showed earlier. >> and you have chris collins on the intel committee, the oversight committee, who says the same thing. does not even approach bob mueller. you know what? i think people hyping this the way they have on cable tv, that's a scandal worse than watergate. no, i think it's worse than the plagues that swept through egypt during the time of moses. i think this is worse than the pharaoh saying "i will never say the word moses again as long as i live." >> i think what you're alluded to is a frightening reality. >> worse than watergate.
the nunes memo's failure -- sound effects, please. [ sad trombone ] >> worse than watergate. more ahead on the fallout of the memo's release. former cia director under president barack obama john brennan will be here on set and from the senate intelligence and judiciary committees, democrat c kamala harris will join the table. "morning joe" is coming right back. bp is taking safety to new heights. using drones and robots offshore
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>> i am on record as saying i support bob mueller 100%. look, russia tried to interfere our election in 2016 with or without a dossier so you need an investigation into russia. you need an investigation into trump tower and the cambridge analytica e-mail separate in part from the dossier so those are not connected issues to me. they may be for other republicans but they're not for me. >> this really doesn't have anything directly to do with the robert mueller investigation of russia, we'll let that play its own course over the next month or so. >> bob mueller should be allowed to turn over every rock, pursue every lead so we can have trust in knowing what actually the russians did or did not do. >> so you don't agree with president trump when he says this vindicates him in the entire russia investigation? >> i don't. i don't agree with some of my colleagues that are always using
the words explosive. >> i think it would be a mistake for anyone to suggest the special counsel shouldn't complete this work. i support his work. i want him to finish it. i hope he finishes it as quickly as possible. this memo has, frankly, nothing at all to do with the special counsel. >> all right. >> so, yeah. >> president trump says he's vindicated so we're done. >> but apparently republicans disagree. this is the lead story in the winnipesaukee. in the gop a growing rift over the memo. and you just saw some of the members that said the nunes memo, the nunes memo -- [ sad trombone ] >> third time is the charge. that the nunes memo doesn't mean what donald trump and do you understand, paul ryan's selected house intel chairman, really, paul, say it means. calling on trump not to
interfere in robert mueller's investigation, four remembers of the house intel committee dismissed the idea that the memo's criticism of how the fbi handled certain surveillance applications undermines the special counsel's work. reps trey growdy from south korea, chris stewart from utah, will hurd from texas and brad winstrop from ohio, by the way, four states the president carried handily. and nobody that is serious believes it means anybody's approaching that. >> it feels like something is protesting too much. with us we have john heilemann, national political reporter for nbc news, carol lee. political writer for the "new york times," nikon necessary sorry ao -- nick confessore and senator kamala harris from california. >> i overheard the senator is in new york for very, very pressing
state business. >> oh, goodness, what's that? >> our daughter ella is a freshman at parson's. >> how's that going? >> she loves it. >> parson's is great. >> it's such a great school and they're teaching everything -- she's an artist and she draws but she's interested in design and they're talking about climate change and how that will impact the art of design. >> boy, they go deep there, don't they? >> but the great thing about their curriculum is they want to base in the reality and they want these kids who are artistic to apply their talent to what's going on in the world today. so it's great to be here, thank you. >> congratulations. >> how do you think american history, the arc of american history, may have changed if devin nunes had gone to parsons. [ sad trombone ] >> she has a sense of humor and she's still in washington. >> republicans are breathlessly
saying people are going to go to jail, people on fox news says it's worse than watergate and it comes out and it's much ado about nothing. you saw what trey gowdy said who, unlike the chairman, trey gowdy actually read the underlying intel that was a basis of this memo and she said there's just nothing there that suggests bob mueller's -- >> and he's leaving. >> so what happens? >> well, there is so much about this process that causes us to quote shakespeare but the reality of it is that i think the gravitas of the significance of the memo is the disintegration, frankly, of our proce process. people are playing politics and when it comes to classified information we have to understand we should not be weaponizing it, that we have to have integrity. that the russians i think, frankly, are sitting back eating the popcorn watching this,
right? >> having a great time, enjoying this. >> and let's remember the underlying issue. an adversarial country interfered in the election of the president of the united states. >> and he's worried about vindicating himself. >> we cannot lose sight of the fact that the intelligence community has been unanimous in finding that to be true. that we do know the underlying reason among many is that they want to interfere in the american public's confidence and trust in our government and our democracy. >> by the way, yes, they interfered in the election. he actually interfered in this debate. #release the memo. >> right, t the bots. >> you're the expert on the bots but release the memo. the russian intelligence services, the russian bots got energized and engaged in that debate that was meant to help interfere with an investigation against russia. we don't have to go back to 2016, it's a couple weeks ago.
>> it's happening right now. they never stopped interfering in our politics. they have ongoing information operations on social media designed to disrupt our own debates and politics. it didn't end when the election d did. >> but we're doing the work for them. >> devin nunes is. >> we are proving, some of us, to be pawned in a game that the russians have created the rule book for and they're still playing this game and we are not seeing they are capturing something most precious to us as a country which is the confidence we have in our democracy and system of justice. and they have been successful in using americans is hold positions of power and leadership supposedly to be pawns in this game. and we should be thinking about this issue of russia's
interference not only by looking in the rear-view mirror at what happened and looking at 2018 and what is predictable about the bot interference and the discussion about the memo. 2018 is around the corner. >> so what responsibility does facebook, twitter and other social media sites have -- >> everyone has responsibility? >> not just to say we'll make this change and that change. you look at facebook's response, it changed over and over, much ado about nothing, other it's bad, we might look into it. it's still happening. it's still happening on twitter, when is it going to stop? what can you do? i guarantee you if this network just did a feed to rt and let that start streaming across -- you all would come in and you would regulate us so why does facebook, why does twitter, what
why do these big tech giants, why are they still allowed to have russian bots interfering with a debate that has to do with the investigation into russian interference in our election? >> so i join issue with your sentiment but i would take issue with the idea that they're being allowed to do this. i think part of what is happening, we had an open hearing, the senate intelligence committee, with the social media on facebook, twitter and others and what became very clear to me is that there are still a lot of questions that have been unanswered for us as a committee but also have been unanswered for these social media sites. >> you know they can figure it out. >> i believe they can. >> they have smart people there, are members of congress giving them a free pass because they want their political support? >> absolutely not. >> that would never happen.
>> let's not be cynical. i can speak for myself and my committee. we brought them before us, we plan to bring them before us again. we've asked them very serious questions including, for example, if you recall, one of the questions that i was concerned is how much money have they made off the of the legitimate advertising that had been associated with the russian advertisements, how much money has facebook and twitter? and these are answers we have yet to receive. >> why can't they give you the answer? >> they're in the midst of calculating it. >> it's a big number. >> we're talking facebook! we're talking facebook. if i talk to somebody in my kitchen about jogging, ads about "are you over 50 and can still run under a nine-minute mile." facebook knows. >> you're obsessed with that. we followed you around. >> and guess what? >> joe, get off social media. >> i stopped running and guess
what? the ads went away. >> i get that, i get that. >> my only point is they know how much money -- >> i agree with you, the ads that come up -- when my husband go online and when i go online are two different things. it's all golf and football for my husband, for me it won't be. >> oh, my lord, john heilemann? >> let me ask you this this sets up the question -- >> wait, i have to ask the question. what comes up for you, devin nunes inspiration posters? >> oh, yeah. a >> a lot of people think the purpose of this thing was to create the pretext for donald trump to fire rod rosenstein. do you think that's correct? >> i don't know but i think that's a reasonable interpretation. >> and we know the president asked his white house counsel to fire bob mueller so i thought
for a year that there was a red line throng senators and house members, there was a red line, if donald trump made a move on bob mueller, that would be the red line and democrats and republicans agreed with that, after watching last week, especially on the house side but even to some extent in your body, i'm not sure about that anymore. i want to ask you whether you think as a student of the congress, does that red line still exist or could the president get away with moving on mueller? >> based on the conversations i've had, private conversations i've had with my colleagues on both sides of the aisles, i believe this would be a red l e line. it has to be. let's understand, a constitutional crisis is -- there are different scenarios that exist. the constitutional crisis that we're on the verge of is where the three independent co-equal branches of government failed to act in a way that is about a check and balance of the other's
power. and what we are seeing now is the possibility, if we believe he might fire mueller, is that the president of the united states as the head of the executive branch would direct the united states department of justice to get rid of the investigator investigating the president of the united states. >> and russia. >> and russia, of course. and so is the senate select committee on intelligence. >> you started talking about the disintegration of the process. how hopeful are you? how would you navigate the issues pertaining to daca, dreamers, giving that this process seems to be going right and left and down dead ends? how are you going to get -- >> and also will you vote to keep the government open if there's not a daca deal? >> so i am still hope fful. i have talked to many of my colleagues, republicans and democrats who want to find a fix for these daca kids.
let's be clear about who this population is. they cleared a vet, they were asked questions about their background and they cleared a vet. and this decided to rescind the whole program so i think there is a great deal of unanimity, frankly, about protecting these daca recipients. the question will be whether people want to then throw other issues into it. i think comprehensive immigration reform there's no question must be addressed. it's a separate matter. we need to protect these kids who by march 5, all of them will lose status. each day 122 are losing status. >> so will you help the republicans keep the government open if they don't give assurances to daca recipients that they're going to stay in the country? >> joe, it's a false choice to suggest we either keep the government open or help these daca kids, i think we can do both. what i think we're on the verge of and senator coons with senator mccain, i haven't read
what they're proposing but what i hear of it i think a viable alternative. >> i'm just curious about the vote. if they say to you it's going on the a straight cr -- >> i'm going to have a problem with it. >> will you vote for a straight cr? >> we have to protect these kids. they have been coming in the tens of thousands to the capital everyday. god only knows how they afford, by bus, train, who knows how they get there. they're sleeping ten deep on someone's living room floor walking through the halls of the united states congress because they believe in our government and they believe if we see them and hear their stories we will acknowledge we should continue to protect them as we promised they would. and i will also say i think the mischaracterization to suggest there's a left and right on this. frankly, i think there's a wrong and a right, period. >> well, i think there are a lot of republicans who want to get the deal done. don't understand why it's not
happening. >> i do, too. >> that's, again, the disintegration of the process. fear of donald trump. >> kamala harris, thank you for being here. still ahead on "morning joe," the former director of the cia, john brennan, is standing by. he has firsthand knowledge that directly refutes what devin nunes claimed in the memo. he joins the table next on "morning joe". >> what's a memo? >> a home mow is something you write to give people information? >> that's your plan? you're going write a book report? that's so boring. >> no, templeton, memos are for important things. a memo can bring people together. a memo can be a call to arms. a manifesto, a poem. a memo can change the world. over the years, paul and i have met regularly with our ameriprise advisor. we plan for everything from retirement to college savings. giving us the ability to add on for an important member of our family.
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democrats paid for this. they got a warrant on someone in the trump campaign using opposition research paid for by the democratic party and the hillary clinton campaign. that's what this is about and it's wrong and it should never be done. >> well, mika, speaking of wrong, what he just said is wrong. >> everything. >> on so many counts. first of all, he didn't even read the underlying intel so he doesn't know what the fisa judge was looking at when he made that decision. there's several other people that say, including the fbi director and the deputy attorney general, who say that statement is false and misleading. also don't we have the "new york times," the "washington post," the "wall street journal" all reporting that the judge had information in front of him that actually the dossier was paid for by a political opponent? >> right. >> so the judge knew. >> so it was part of -- that's part of -- that's supposed to be in the democratic version of a memo. the judge was informed there was political motivation fuelling
some of this information. >> i don't forthe life of me -- i just can't for the life of me, mika, understand why paul ryan is allowing this guy to continue to run the house intel committee. >> well, we have a lot of questions about this and someone who just might have answers joining us now, former cia director john brennan, now a senior national security and intelligence analyst for nbc news and msnbc. welcome. thank you for being on this morning. >> director brennan, why don't you take a crack at that statement devin nunes made and some of the other misleading statements he's made through the week and over the past month. >> the problem is, that everybody has said, that the underlying documentation is critically important and when you put together a very short memo that very selectively cherry picks information to make one's case, it's hard for the american people to understand what the fbi presented. >> let's break this down because if you're the fbi or if you're in the justice department,
you're at a disadvantage. somebody cherry picks one part of what was presented to the judge but the underlying information that would explain the totality of the administration made by the judge can't be seen because it's classified information so how exactly do democrats -- how does the justice department respond without revealing classified information. >> that's why fbi director chris wray was adamant about not having this go out the way it is because it misrepresents the facts and there are significant omissions of fact that are there. so the fbi goes through a very thorough process. it's not perfect but putting forward a fisa request is a solemn responsibility under the bureau and all of the documentation under that is important to understand the totality of the information that the request is being made from and this 3.35 page memo does damage to that.
>> i want to ask you about the russia investigation broadly because you obviously know a lot more than we do and i wonder how much of what's in the public sphere compares to what actually is involved in the russia investigation. in other words, how much do we not know? based on what you know setting aside the obstruction piece of it because that came later, is -- do you think that the investigation is winding down as some people have suggested? >> well, i think it's still winding up as bob mueller continues to investigate. my information is dated now a year in terms of classified information. at that time i thought that there was ample information for the fbi to pursue to see what, in fact, the russians were doing and with whom they were doing it. over the past year, the fbi and then bob mueller, the special counsel, have been pulling those threads and as we see what's happened with michael flynn, paul manafort and others, there's a lot of information that bob mueller has been able to uncover and now as he pursues this in the coming weeks and -- the weeks will be very
important. over the next several months it will be critical and if the republicans are going to continue to pursue this partisan path, i wonder what will happen if bob mueller's report comes forward with compelling information about violations of the law. >> talk about a partisan path and look at the patterns of this president, is bob mueller's job safe, do you think? >> i don't know. i don't know. i think this president has demonstrated his willingness to do what he can to try to undermine this investigation and whether it's rod rosenstein or bob mueller i think there are some real questions about what the white house is going to do to try to continue to undercut them. >> so let me give you a question that you will know the answer to and it has to do with carter page, the man who republicans have hung their hat on. they've gone to the mat for carter page suggesting that he somehow was mistreated. "time" magazine actually
uncovered a 2013 letter in which a former trump adviser reportedly boasted about his connections with the kremlin. the reported letter is dated august 25, 2013, was sent to an academic press recording a manuscript page trying to get published according to an editor who worked with page, page allegedly wrote "over the past year, i've had the privilege to serve as an informal adviser to the staff of the kremlin in preparation for their presidency of the g20 summit next month where energy issues will be prominent on the agenda. that would have been two months before the fisa warrant was issued, according to court documents. the fbi believed russia intelligence tried to recruit page as a source of information however that was left out of the devin nunes report. >> well, depending on the day and issue, individuals are either very important to the white house or they are not.
>> right. >> and it demonstrates there's an interest in trying to manipulate the facts in order to serve one's interest. >> donald trump told the "washington post" in the spring of 2016 that carter page was one of his two most important foreign policy advisers. the other one, of course, cooperating right now with the investigation. so tell me what you knew about carter page, tell me about your concerns about carter page and was there any question about this sort of actor on the international stage that our intel agencies would be concerned about? >> well, clearly what has come out of the press over the past year -- i won't go into classified information. >> we want the classified information. that's all the rage, nunes and the republicans have morph. they are now in edward snowden territory. so why don't we just jump in? >> but long standing and different types of connections with russian officials i think is something that the fbi focuses on. so when an individual who has these connections is associated
with a political campaign and then there's additional intelligence that indicates the russians are actively trying to interfere in our election, there is an obligation, indeed a responsibility to pull those threads, which they've been doing. so every time i listen to carter page and other people i scratch my head trying to figure out what are they trying to do and justify some of their past activities. >> didn't he receive a warning from the intel community about russia? >> again, i won't go into what he might have received from the intel community. >> i think he did. at least it was reported in the papers. >> right. i'm curious. you've been around a long time. what do you think is going to be the long-term impact of this attack on the fbi, the justice department and to a certain extent the intelligence community? >> it certainly undermines the ability of the fbi to represent itself as an independent, objective and honest organization. both the american people as well as the counterparts overseas and it's one of the real
institutions that we need to rely on when there are serious questions about whether or not there have been violations of law. and that's why this is the obligation on the part of robert mueller to work with the fbi to uncover whether it's obstruction of justice or whether there are other matters that individuals are involved in that requires us to take a fresh look in order to prevent things from happening in the future. russia will take advantage of this time and time again. >> where are we right now in 2018? january, 2018. are we in february now? i'm about a week behind. where are we as a country and what's your gravest concern? >> well, i have good confidence in the senate select committee on intelligence. richard burr and mark warner are doing a very thorough job in a bipartisan fashion. that's what needs to be done. so the special counsel will look at what type of violations of law might have taken place but it will be up to the congress to determine what should happen so
we prevent these things from happening in the future or at least try to minimize the chances in the future or the election. so i'm hoping the senate intelligence community is going to come out with very important recommendations about what the administration needs to do and maybe even pass laws that are going to require the director of national intelligence, director of fbi to report to the president, to the congress and to the american people in advance of the election the status of efforts to interfere in the election and also put on some costs to individuals and countries to who do. we need to stop this from happening because right now, especially in the cyber sphere, there are so many opportunities for individuals and foreign actors to try to exploit our democratic processes. >> what happens to the entire process if trump moves to fire bob mueller? >> i think we're going to be in a very serious constitutional crisis. i wonder when the republican leadership in the congress is going to come to their senses. i have a lot of respect for paul
ryan, i thought he was taking these matters seriously but the things i've heard him say and do makes me question whether or not if there's going to be a removal of rod rosenstein as well as bob mueller what will the republicans do? will they allow it to happen? it can not. to me that would be obstruction of justice on an ongoing investigation that involves senior individuals in this government of previously affiliated with this administration. this has to be brought to its conclusion. >> i had a lot of concerns with the cia and the cia took a lot of hits from 2004, 2005, something you had to deal with, something that director panetta had to deal with and so i know that you at least have some sort of feel about what the fbi is grappling with right now. what do you think about christopher wray, the letter he
sent the bureau on friday and the type of leadership he's showing over there. >> i think christopher wray is an individual of high integrity and honesty and somebody who can lead the bureau during these challenging times. he has a very difficult job in light of what is taking place right now in the administration. he needs to maintain the support of the bureau and let them know he has their back and he's going to defend them. he's going to look at whether or not there were any missteps at all during the fisa process. he won't be somebody who will just in a knee jerk fashion to defend the bureau and its practices and processes but he is somebody who i think we need to make sure stays in that position because he i believe has the spine and backbone to stand up to individuals who are trying to politicize the law enforcement intelligence process. >> what's the state of the cia right now? >> cia officers keep their head down. they're used to, unfortunately, all of the partisan rancor that takes place, but i must say i've
never seen it this bad in washington. i'm very concerned about how the intelligence oversight committees which are supposed to be bipartisan -- and years ago they were -- but now the intelligence law enforcement has become a political football in the hands of many and, again, devin nunes has abrused his powr and authorities on as chairman of the house select intelligence committee and it needs to make sure it carries out its job objectively and does what it needs to do to protect the american people. >> you look back to the way dianne feinstein and saxby chambliss worked together on that committee. let's hope chairman burr and mark warner do the same. >> mike rogers, who was devin nunes's predecessor, was very good and he demonstrated the house intel committee can carry out its work. sure there will be differences of view and i had a lot of issues from an intelligence perspective but i never felt as though they were using the
institutions as political footballs. that's outrageous. >> >> and this's what's different. john brennan, thank you for being on this morning. coming up, we'll talk to the top democrat on the judiciary committee who is challenging the nunes memo and accusing house republicans of obstructing the russia investigation. congressman jerrold nadler will be on set. and if the gop is the party of trumpism and if trumpism is a threat to democratic values and rule of law, does that mean the republican party is a threat to democracy? we'll bring in the authors of a compelling piece of the "atlantic" magazine who are connecting those dots. "morning joe" is coming right back. this is the story of green mountain coffee roasters dark magic told in the time it takes to brew your cup. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop.
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>> did you see the memo? >> yeah, yeah, i have the memo right here. i just forgot, but it's not shipping out till tomorrow so there's no problem. >> yeah. if you could just go ahead and make sure you do that from now on, that would be great. and i'll go ahead and make sure you get another copy of that memo, okay? >> no, i have the memo, i've got it, it's right -- >> hello, phil, what's happening? >> the memo "office space" nick
confessore, can you ever go wrong with a clip from "office space?" >> never and if it involves tps reports it's a double whammy. >> another movie i didn't see. >> you've got to see it. i wouldn't brag about not seeing "office space." >> that's the same thing you all said about "wedding crashers." . "wedding crashers is amazing." >> did you just take a "wedding crashers" shot? >> i walked out. >> greatest film of all time. >> i need a film where i don't know how it will end. >> number one -- well, of course you don't have to mention that, number one "vietnam" by ken burns. >> i like that. everyone should get that. today could bring new action in response to the congressional republicans' memo. the house intelligence committee is likely to vote on whether to release the democrats' ten-page rebuttal subject to the same review by the president. joining us now, a member of the house intelligence committee, jim himes of connecticut.
good to have you. >> good to have you here, congressman. i'm curious with whether you agree with the front page of the "washington post," four remembers are saying that this memo does absolutely nothing. four republicans on the intel committee saying that this does nothing to undermine robert mueller's investigation and any suggestions otherwise by the president isn't true. >> in fact, municipalthe nunes the case in pointing out the investigation of the russian issue preceded the fisa application for carter page by several months. >> right. >> that tells the story the people need to know. >> do you think the democrats should release a response memo or is even just distracting from the main question which is whether or not russia interfered in our elections and not focusing on trump trying to defend if something he may be protesting too much from.
>> i think? 's important. the oversight function in congress, particularly on the house side, has been damaged by what most people recognize by today to be a brutally partisan attempt to buttress the president's case that was pretty quickly abandoned by lots of republicans as you're pointing out. >> should the democrats release their memo? should they follow nunes in this game? t the underlying classified information would give proper perspective on this. >> remember, joe, the point of the nunes memo was never going to prove anything. it was to create uncertainty, like "gosh, it's a complicated technical issue. i don't get it." and the ultimate objective is when robert mueller comes out with a statement people will say "gosh, this is so complicated i
don't know what the truth is." so in as much as the democratic memo -- and it will -- provides additional context and details which shows the nunes allegations to be simply flat out wrong, i do think that's important for the american people to see. >> congressman, just to follow up on that. is there risk, though in playing into the republicans' hands on this in terms of just escalating one side releases a memo, the other side releases a memo and it continues to go on from there? >> well, no, i don't think so. when somebody tells you the moon is made of green cheese, it's probably worth pointing out the wikipedia entry that suggests the moon is not, in fact, made of green cheese. i think that's a service to the american public. now i heard some story yesterday about how maybe devin nunes has more memos coming and we should talk about whether memos that are released unilaterally by one person on one committee in any way, shape, or form constitute congressional oversight but my hope is that this experience
gets put behind us so we can go back to our job of doing the investigation and doing the oversight which is so important for congress to do. >> all right, thank you so much. >> congressman jim himes, thank you. >> we greatly appreciate it. we were interrupted by alex coursen. what's going on, alex? do we have a trump tweet? breaking news. trump tweet. >> we're going to put it in to prompter. let's bring in the congressman. we're scrambling here to get it. it's a little bit aggressive, let's put it this way. >> i'm right everybody else is wrong, i'm sure everybody else is saying. let's bring in jerry nadler from new york. you rebut it had nunes memo on four points. the first you say that nunes' memo fails to demonstrate the government lacked enough evidence to attain a fisa warrant. >> well, clearly all the nunes memo says is that part of the application for the warrant on
page was the steele dossier. it doesn't -- and the steel dossier is tainted it says because of political sponsorship of the funding for it. but it doesn't show, number one, that the steele -- the dossier was a substantial or major part of the support for that. we know there was plenty of other support for that warrant. it doesn't say what that was or that it was insignificant. it doesn't show the steele dossier was a significant part or major part of the -- >> how are we going to know that? how are we going to know all the information we need to know when the fisa process itself is so secretive for good reason? >> well, number one, we should put in the perspective. this question of that particular warrant is really irrelevant to the larger question. remember they have three
subsequent warrant renewals, to get a warrant from the fisa court, you have to prove -- show probable cause to the judge that the person you want to look at in this case, carter page, is a foreign agent. to get a warrant renewal -- and they got three of them -- you have to show that you got information as a result of the prior -- you got further information showing that he's a foreign agent. so from three further warrants they had to show they got more and more information about his foreign agent which validates the first one but in any event, this is irrelevant to the point of the memo which is that the russian investigation or the mueller investigation is tainted in some way. >> obviously donald trump is very angry. >> oh, my gosh, yes, he is. >> he's ranting and raving. he also obviously saw chairman brennan, director brennan because he's attacked him. >> "stop watching "morning joe," it's not healthy for you, mr. president." >> here's the president tweeting and this says so much and the
next tweet says so much more. little adam schiff, who is desperate to run for higher office is one of the biggest liars and leakers in washington right up there with comey, warner, brennan and clapper. adam leaves closed committee hearings to illegally leak confidential information, must be stopped." he also goes on to tweet "thank you, "fox & friends," for exposing the truth. perhaps that's why your ratings are so much better than your untruthful competition." >> he's talking about you guys. >> is he? that hurts. hold on, hold on. all right, so anyway, the president is basically being called out as a liar by his own republican party, by members on the intel committee, four members saying that what the president has said over the weekend is a lie. this includes trey gowdy who read the underlying information. maybe that suggests why the president is so angry that this
nunes memo, which was supposed to help him, has hurt him, setting back, and he's being called out as a liar by republicans on the intel committee. >> and looks very silly. >> and the president has said this totally -- this memo totally vindicates him and undermines the investigation shows that the investigation is a witch-hunt. the memo has nothing to do with any of that. even if you accept every word in the home mow as true -- which is not sen nonsense -- it has nothing to do with whether the russians -- well, we know the russians interfered in our election. it has nothing to do with how high the trump campaign that collusion went. it says nothing about any of this and nothing about the president or his campaign's collusion with the russians so it's irrelevant. all it deals with is one fisa application which was not in any event the start or even the major part of the investigation. >> i want to ask you. the providence of the
information, the dossier, right? do republicans have a reason to be a little aggrieved here that this began with opposition research from the democratic party that made its way into this investigation? if you took these examples and said it was a raesh operation and it went from that to the investigation of hillary clinton would you feel strange about it? >> first of all, it didn't start there. the memo itself mentions in the last sentence that the investigation started months earlier as a result of george papadopoulos. >> and if they're relying on this stuff, is it a concern? >> no, because the fisa courts, other courts rely on all kinds of information. the court was told apparently that there was some political input into the -- to motivating this steele dossier but what's relevant to the court is not
that but the information in the dossier. >> and also, take a step back -- >> nothing in the dossier has been proven untrue so far. >> if you want to look at the investigation, what's happened? papadopoulos charged, pled, is cooperating. you can say the same thing about the national security adviser, trump's national security adviser, michael flynn, he's already been charged, he's cooperating with the investigation. manafort. and then gates who may be cooperating with the investigation. so there's a lot of fisa warrants that have gone out. a lot of investigation has been going on. we have four arrests, two people are cooperating with the government, cooperating with mueller's investigation, john, so -- just on the face of it it proves this is a small part of it. >> we don't have much time so i want to ask the question i asked
senator harris. having watched the behavior in the republicans of the house, up to and including paul ryan, do you think there exists now a red line for them if trump were to try to make a rosenstein or on mueller to get rid of one or both? >> i don't know. i certainly hope there exist that's red line because we depend on congressional checks and balances on the president. we haven't seen on its. i said in my memo that the republicans at least in the house are now complicit in trying to cover up -- cover up this entire thing. and they're complicit because until now, they simply ignored everything. but now with the release of this memo and the defense of this memo, it's an active attempt to cooperate with the president in defaming the fbi, the justice department, the investigation, and perhaps setting up sabotaging the investigation. >> i hope that republicans are listening to what you're saying and i hope for whatever it's worth they just take a look at
the last five minutes. if they have any concern in their minds as to whether or not they should be helping out this president smed instead of tryin get all the information out there. the president is watching "morning joe" and then tweeting, insulting things about people we're talking about and is all riled up about what has been said on "morning joe." >> i like that he -- it used to be the little marco rubio. he's start to go -- >> he's rung out -- >> mr. president, you have much bigger problems. >> it's starting to sound more and more like lassy's reality show and -- this is a mid season replacement. >> but understand, though, those tweets are about the republicans that have come out and, in effect, said that he was lying when he said this impact the investigation. congressman, thank you so much. say hi to my peeps on the upper west side. the kids love me up there. or i can walk ten blocks and say it myself. still ahead, wall street
opens on the heels of a very tough day. >> that was an ugly day. >> what caused the dow to plunge 665 points. >> wall street said there were concerns about inflation, but also about political instability. >> instability being the key word this morning. word of the day, instability. >> we're going to have a second -- today, innovation in the finger lakes is helping build the new new york. once home to the world's image center, new york state is now a leader in optics, photonics and imaging. fueled by strong university partnerships, providing the world's best talent.
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we have like a -- we've had -- >> a beautiful -- do i hear fred of the devil? >> we also have some new sound effects in. let's try them out. devin nunes memo -- that sounds good with freddie the devil. >> okay. compelling new piece in the atlantic magazine argues that it's time to boycott the republican party. and it's all because of president trump. we'll talk to the authors. we'll have much more also on the fallout on the nunes memo --
several law esmakers throw cold water on the president's claim. and president trump is tweeting this morning because -- >> nick and i will be previewing hans solo. >> instability. "morning joe" is coming right back. >> is that my good butter? >> i can't discuss that now, major. i have to write another delicious memo. thinking about joining her daughter's yoga class. she was thinking about her joints. but now that she's taking osteo bi-flex, she's noticing a real difference in her joint comfort. with continued use, it supports increased flexibility over time. karen: "she's single." it also supports wonderfully high levels of humiliation in her daughter. karen: "she's a little bit shy." in just 7 days, your joint comfort can be your kid's discomfort. osteo bi-flex. you were made to move. so move. but through goodt times and bad at t. rowe price we've helped our investors stay confident for over 80 years.
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this memo is going to be released. i'm told it will shock the conscience. >> a massive concrete vault has been discovered. >> we have fought seen the document, but the charges are strong enough to shake the public faith. >> this is an adventure you and i are going to be taking toel together. >> we're talking about potential crimes. we're talking about people being charged, going to jail. >> before we do that, let me give you background about what we may have in here. >> the biggest mrig scandal in american history. >> the biggest controversial scandal in american history. >> we searched for four months for some connecting link. >> why was america created? it was about tea tax. this is a hundred times bigger. >> after hours of digging, we begin to be on the sense of a discovery. >> this is earth shaking. it's worth than watergate. >> more troubling than the underlying crime in watergate. >> what is the classic phrase? fire in the hole. fire in the hole.
>> we had no real idea what we would find inside. as it turns out, we haven't found very much. >> i actually don't think it has any impact on the russia probe. >> this memo has, frankly, nothing at all to do with the special counsel. >> it seems we have nothing at all in the vault. >> as the new republic put it, it would be easy to compare nunes' memo to what raljeraldo opening al capone's vault. >> you have to have great respect for a guy that could do that on national tv. >> fire in the hole. >> geraldo goes there, you know what i mean? that's what we tell our kids, too. take a chance. how often, go big or go home.
geraldo went for it. >> he did. >> the good for him. but you can't say the same for the republicans. >> no. the memo finally came out. and despite president trump's insistence that it vindicates him, the memo the timeline claims actually hurts the president's claim. we'll know today just how partisan the memo may have been when that same committee decides whether democrats can release their rebuttal. welcome to "morning joe." get it ready, we have nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie
dc. >> so we reviewed some material from the game last night and saw nothing worth actually showing. so my first question to you has to do with the markets -- >> the markets in asia this morning seem to be suggesting a slightly lower opening on wall street. what say you? >> i would like to talk about nick foles, joe. do you have a minute for that? >> kasie, eagles fan, that was from start to finish probably one of the greatest super bowls ever and nick fole he s' story a story that will be talked about for as long as they talk about super bowls. take it, kasie. >> he stepped up in so many ways, coming in when wentz got hurt in december. the defense hung in there, but he's really -- i mean, he is why we won this game. it was kind of an epic troll.
tom brady screwed up his own pass back to himself just a few plays later. this was a great way for the eagles to finally win a super bowl. this was a great game from start to finish. >> it is. i went to sleep after the game. how much of the city is still standing? >> i was wondering if those pictures were live. >> here is the thing that will affect you most, joe. in addition to street lamps and telephone poles, apparently the awning of the ritz carlton in downtown philadelphia collapsed. brought down not under its own weight. >> oh, my kwogod. >> we've got problems. >> i don't actually know exactly where that is. when i go to philadelphia, i stay in a place where dan aykroyd stayed in "trading places." >> if i told before you this game -- >> the duke brothers invite me
up to their house. they get it back. >> if i told you before this game that tom brady would pass for over 500 yards and the eagles would still win the game, you would have told me i was mental. >> you will. >> i know you will. >> that was an incredible thing. the eagles defense did not stop tom brady, yet today we have a new super bowl champion. well, the country has something to be happy about which is the patriots losing. >> well, come on. there's some people that like the patriots. >> are you familiar with the loyalties of the hosts here? >> the patriots -- well, mika was for the eagles last night. joey has always been a patriots fan so i always quietly root for the patriots. >> mika is moving on. >> the patriots have been to ten super bowls, which is incredible. their record in the super bowls, 5-5. >> there you go. >> fascinating. >> all right. it is. let's get to the news now. despite the president's declaration that the memo
vindicates him in the russia probe, it may actually have done more to hurt the president's case. it was reported that several white house aides cautioned the president that the memo did not contain convincing evidence of a conspiracy. and other advisers inside and outside the west wing reportedly questioned why his administration allowed the memo to become the dominant talking point during the week when he gave his first state of the union, over-shadowing the well received address. the republican memo ended up containing a sentence that undercuts a central claim. the president's defenders have made against the russia probe, that it grew out of an unverified dossier prepared during the campaign. the memo states that information about russians and trump foreign adviser george papadopoulos triggered the opening of an fbi counterintelligence investigation in late july of 2016. the memo also revealed that a
fisa warrant against carter page was sought and received in late october of 2016. that was a month after multiple trump campaign officials had said it had cut all ties with him. it doesn't seem helpful. >> so matt miller, it doesn't seem helpful at all to donald trump's cause. in fact, it hurts donald trump's cause. it may bring up a question of this one fisa warrant. and i say may because, again, the central argument for all of these stooges in conservative media, i have to say, unfortunately a lot of places that i have respected greatly in the past, but a lot of the stooges in conservative media are saying, well, look at this fisa memo. and it looks like, you know, we have evidence that it was, you know -- that they put it out there, the fisa warrant was issued without adequate evidence. well, they know that the central
argument, that the intelligence community has been giving, that the fbi has been giving, that the justice department has been giving it, we can't tell you the underlying information that v t justifies the fisa warrant, because guess what? that's classified information. and, again, they know it. but "the wall street journal" is now parroting devin nunes. the national review sounded like they came close to excusing or parroting devin nunes. all of them knowing better, all of them knowing that it's the underlying information that is classified, that the fbi and donald trump's own justice department says we can't show the public. they're taking -- i mean, they've become the party the of wikileaks and edward snowden. i guess it was only a matter of time until donald trump's thinking infected the entire republican party even on intel matters. >> yeah.
you're exactly right, joe. when we saw this memo, i was ready by the time it came out to sort of be disappointed in the claims. and we just found out that we knew there was going to be -- had a misthe leading by omission. i was surprised that it was such a filmsy document on its face. they arrested all this argument that somehow the surveillance of carter page was illegal. we found out within minutes that, in fact, the court had been told that the dossier was paid for by a political opponent of donald trump's. it didn't say it was the dnc or the hillary clinton campaign, but it was a political opponent which knocks out the entire argument and as you point out later in the document shows that, in fact, the entire investigation began because of george papadopoulos , not carter page. so it's one thing for devin nunes to pull another one of these extentstunts. what is so shocking to me is the behavior of paul ryan.
paul ryan, he has the same goals as devin nunes. he just dresses it up in more principled sounding language. he'll say, you know, this isn't about an attack on the fbi. this is about making sure that the fisa process is being followed fairley. he knows better than that. he knows what this is. and if he didn't, the president has made clear what this is all about because he keeps telling everyone this is, for him, ending the russia investigation. >> i guess that's the most revealing thing, john. it's not that devin nunes is a hack for donald trump. and it's not that donald trump doesn't give a -- about america's national security, classified information as it pertains to him. he will throw anybody or anything under the bus, including the best interests of this nation. if he believes it will give him any advantage whatsoever. and if there's anybody out there that questions that, i can't wait for you to grab your cheetos and put on your tidy
whiteys and go down to your mom's basement and start typing that blog away. that will be interesting. by the way, order up your russian bots and you're off to the races. but for paul ryan, for mitch mcconnell to stay quiet, for "the wall street journal" editorial page to write the kind of editorial that the they wrote on saturday, attacking the fbi, and lending support, aid and comfort to devin nunes and donald trump when they know better, when with they have reporters that have been advancing this story and doing a good and honorable job, for them to slander the fbi and the justice department is just shocking. and the "wall street journal" editorial page, it's an editorial page i have been
reading my entire life. >> yeah. >> i could go on. the list goes on. but i -- i sensed something last week. there is a shift, a slight shift, but there is a shift among conservatives who were honorable toward the fight against donald trump's worst excesses. they are starting to buckle. and there's so many who i have great respect for. i don't want to even mention their names because i read their columns. i heard them on tv. and i was heart broken. i'm keeping my mouth shut and i'm hoping this week they will their conscience again. but it was shameful last week. still ahead on "morning joe," what could be more politically damaging to republicans than the devin nunes memo. how about several more devin nunes memos. we'll talk about it next on "morning joe." is made of. but right now, our bond is fraying.
this is the story of green mountain coffee roasters dark magic told in the time it takes to brew your cup. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop. and meet dave. hey. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good, he asks? let me show you. let's go. so we climb. hike. see a bear. woah. reach the top. dave says dark magic is a bold blend of coffee with rich flavors of uganda, sumatra, colombia and other parts of south america. like these mountains, each amazing on their own. but together? magical. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters packed with goodness.
abuse portion of our investigation. we are in the middle of what i call phase two of our investigation which involves other departments, specifically the state department and some of the involvement that they had in this. >> phase two is where they take off the clown nose and they -- >> yeah. as devin nunes previewed, friday's memo isn't likely to be the last to starting government departments. republicans close to nunes say there could be as many as five additional memos or reports that claim wrongdoing ahead. nunes told the weekly standard, quote, this was phase one. that resulted with a memo designed to go public. there's not plans of additional classified information that would come forward through the same process. >> oh, how nice, matt miller. he's not going to release a classified information that actually compromises a fisa process or other top secret processes. how comforting. >> yeah. ooets he's a little bit like oj still out there looking for the
real killers. his job as the chairman of this intelligence committee is to investigation what happens, how the russians interfered in our election and where there is anything we should do to stop it in the process. instead, his entire investigation seems to be going through various parts of the government and see if there is anyone who tried to help stop hushan interference and find out what happened. he is investigationing the investigators. i think the worry is the damage he's done to law enforcement here. if you see that in other branches of the government, really damaging long-term zebss from what devin nunes is doing. >> you've got the chairman of the house intelligence committee that's always been seen as a bipartisan committee who is now actually on one witch-hunt after
another. now he's saying instead of focusing on how the russians tried to impact our election, my gosh, all the other intel concerns that we had, maybe an isis attack on the united states, instead, he is going to go from agency to agency to agency trying to run resistance for donald trump. >> yeah. it's hard to see thats as anything other than just trying to undermine the russia investigation. and, you know, we've been talking about how underwomening the memo was. but at the same time, it did have the effect of sewing all sorts of doubt about the integrity of the fbi, the integrity about this investigation. in the end, i think the broader goal here seems to be to just whatever results robert mueller comes out with at the end of this investigation, there's a campaign to win public been here. and that is where the memo and wherever he's headed next, whether it's the state
department or something else, that all sooedz seems to be designed towards that agenda. the state department is interesting because you can kind of see where maybe he's going in that direction wsh whether that might be the direction he's assuming in the state department. >> it will be interesting to see that there must be congressional oversight of the intelligence community and elsewhere. it will be interesting to see how -- what pretext he uses to justify these other investigations because, although there is an intelligence component to the state department, the state department is not generally -- the oversight of the state department is not generally conducted by the committee. so how nunes justifies going from agency to agency, next thing he'll be at the agriculture department. coming up, ben wittez has
been on the forefront of reporting when it comes to the fbi and the russia probe. he has a new piece the this morning on the bureau's real reaction to president trump firing jim comey. that's next on "morning joe." directv has been rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable for 17 years running. but some people still like cable. just like some people like banging their head on a low ceiling. drinking spoiled milk. camping in poison ivy. getting a papercut. and having their arm trapped in a vending machine. but for everyone else, there's directv. for #1 rated customer satisfaction over cable, switch to directv and get a $200 reward card. call 1.800.directv ♪ [cheers] that's all it takes? guess i'll bring a can of this stuff everywhere.
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ron and rachel are harvard graduates. they are experienced lawyers. they -- rod has 27 years in the department. rachel had a number of years in the department previously. so they both represent the kind of quality and leadership that we want in the department. >> that was attorney general jeff sessions defending his attorney generals on friday praising rod rosenstein and the justice department's number three official, rachel brand during a speech on human trafficking. also on friday, fbi director christopher wray released an internal memo he wrote to agents and analysts and the reason part, talk the cheap. the work you do is what will endure. we speak through our work. one case at a time, one decision at a time. wray added that he was determined to defend the integrity and the professionalism of the department's employees, urging
the bureau to keep calm and tackle hard. that was an inspiring memo coming on the out day the fbi was under attack. i thought he showed great leadership. >> yeah, he did. and the public efforts to defend the rule of law come amrid attacks by president trump and other republicans. it haes hs led to the next piec. joining us, jonathan roush, benjamin wittis. they are both senior fellows at the brookings institution. and in their new piece for the atlantic magazine, they write in part this, this is the article we thought we would never write. a frank statement that a certain form of partisanship is now a moral necessity. the republican party, as an institution, has become a danger to the rule of law and the
integrity of our democracy. the problem is not just donald trump. it's the larger political apparatus that made a conscience decision to enable him. we are thus driven to believe the best hope of defending the country from trump's enablers and to save the republican party from itself is vote mindlessly and mechanically against republicans at every opportunity until the party either rights itself or implodes, very preferably the former. in other words, under certain peculiar and deeply regrettable circumstances, sophisticated independent minded voters need to act as if they were dumb -- partisans. i'm quoting. >> thank you, guys, so much for being with us. benjamin, this is actually an evolution in thinking for you. several months back, i believe. i read something of yours that i was struck by and i couldn't agree with more. and you said it was important
that we put aside ideal logical sdirchbses and focus on first principals. don't go to the mats fighting about tax cuts when institutional norms are being challenged. what was it that made you evolve into this position, which was we just have to vote against the republican party? >> so i actually don't think of it as an evolution. i think of the two things as entirely consistent. i believe in a -- what i was called a coalition of all democratic forces. i am not fighting with people who i disagree with about any number of idealogical or policy issues. any conservative, any liberal who feels the way i do about these -- what i think of as prepolitical rule of law commitments. i want on my team. but our point in this article is that in a two-party system, if
you believe that one party is really not being true to those basic prepolitical rule of law commitments, you actually have a sort of negative obligation to support the other party. so i stand by everything i have written about the coalition of all democratic forces and i think everybody who believes that should be thinking very hard about whether they should be voting for republicans right now. >> and jonathan, what about people like let's say senator lindsey graham who at certain times comes out and provides a critical voice, as will herd did over the weekend and three other republics, a critical voice showing even some inside the president's own party disagreeing with him. >> you know, with under normal circumstances, joe, you would be absolutely right. ben and i would work very hard to empower the people within the
republican party that are trying to reform it and change it. we both concluded in our separate paths and came together that that is now hopeless, that the forces of trump are now so firmly in control of the party that all that opponents can do are kind of rear guard action, kind of sniping from behind. and the only thing that's going to work at this stage is clear and firm electoral penalties for the party. just the american people need to show this is not tolerable behavior from a party in american politics. >> nick. >> guys, question for you. if you're a traditional small government conservative, a sociology conservative, this has, in some ways, been a pretty good white house for you. you're getting tax cuts, you're getting the president taking the side of faith leaders on various issues. what's your case to people who are, you know, essentially conservatives in america who are getting a lot of return from the trump white house to actually
boycott the party? >> you know, my answer to that is with all of us all the time and all of our policy preferences, we have to ask at what cost. and if you are a traditional conservative who is -- or for that matter a business conservative who is excited about tax cuts and you are willing to look the other way at the erosion of institutional fabric that, you know, ultimately does protect your ability to be the kind of conservative that you are, my argument is you are paying too high a price. and that is a very dangerous devil's bargain. i would not support liberals doing it on behalf of universal health care and i don't support conservatives doing it on behalf of getting people like neil
gorsuch on the courts. >> ben, i want to ask you a question about the nunes memo. it's a little bit away from the topic of your piece. i want to be really clear i'm being a devil's advocate here and this is not my posture. but one of the things that some people on the right and some who are allied with the people on the right pointed out on friday or argued on friday was that when the nunes memo came out, it seemed to refute the notion that some had projected or -- before it was released which was that it would somehow expose sensitive material, that national security would be put in jeopardy by what was in the memo. the memo was obviously a squibb, but there was an argument that some made which is this is a classic case that illustrates the problem of overclassification. the memo didn't actually put any national security interests or
intelligence interests at risk. how do you respond to that charge? >> the charge is wrong. the memo contains, for the first time in the history of the united states, a disclosure of the named target of a fisa application and a named source of a -- for a fisa application for partisan political reasons. that has never happened before. and it sends an incredible message to the fbi that we may not be able to protect you if the president of the united states and the committee decide for selfish reasons that they want to release your name to the general public for ridicule. that's an extremely sensitive issue. when people talk about sources
and methods, that's what they're talking about. >> carol lee. >> my question is, your piece is focused all on republicans and standsing against republicans, and it doesn't really make a case for democrats. is there a case that you have for democrats or is it just entirely an opposition argument? >> this is entirely an opposition argument. john heilman on this show, it's interesting to be here. he's known me for at least 22 years and knows that i am ferociously nonpartisan. >> true. >> but there comes a point in on two-party system where the only way to send a message to one system is to vote blindly for the other party until the first party starts to get the message. and they will after an election or two. >> all right. jonathan and benjamin, thank you both very much. >> thank you, guys.
>> the piece is in the new issue of "the atlantic." >> i will say, possibly the single most relentlessly nonpartisan person i've ever met, guys, the least partisan person i've ever met in the annals of political commentary, unreliable to the left and to the right has been fiercely idealogically all over the map. and this is where we are. as we see so often in the morning, the president of the united states made time not only to watch cable tv and i guess "morning joe" which can we've told him not to, but to tweet with it. keep it right here on "morning joe." my mom's pain from
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>> well, you how did you know i wrote that memo? >> how did i know you wrote that memo? who else could write that memo, davidson? that memo was famous. that memo was a masterpiece, clear, concise, to the point, that is the best the memo i've ever read. in fact, that memo wasn't even a memo. that memo was literature. >> well, thank you. >> you're welcome. >> our pop culture references to memos this morning. up next, the dow kept its worst performance in two years on friday. >> it was terrible. >> and things are not looking better this morning. did the release of the nunes memo play in the role in the market -- >> take responsibility for that? i don't know, "the wall street journal" said years of inflation, but political unrest in america. >> gosh, that's terrible. >> because of the nunes memo. because of the nunes memo. >> nunes memo. >> you have to be ready.
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higher. according to data from s&p dow jones industries, the s&p 500 itself lost over $1 trillion worth of market value in the last week alone. >> oh, my gosh. >> it's certainly something traders are keeping an eye on. aa cording to the treasury department, it estimates it will need to borrow nearly $1 trillion in 2018 and then borrow more than $1 trillion in the two following years, given all the political turmoil around another possible shutdown, the debt ceiling issues, etcetera, it will be curious whether we see domestic and foreign buyers of the u.s. debt respond this week at the treasury options. they hold their regularly scheduled auctions this week, as well. on the corporate front, qualcomm, they're on the rise. their rival is raising a bid to per share. you may recall last year broadcom's ceo stood next to
president trump to announce he was moving the company's headquarters back to the u.s. from singapore. there are, though, some concerns about a hypothetical merger of this size. will it result in job cuts? >> and beer natural light wants to help with the growing burden of student loan debt. it's launched a contest to give away $45,000 apiece to help students with their student loans. collectively, 44 million americans have close to $1.5 trillion in student loans. >> was that a picture of a beer slip n slide? >> it was. >> what was that shot in the middle? what is going on with that? >> is that part of the ad campaign? >> wow. >> it was part of their ad campaign. they released it in select markets i tied around the super bowl. but, again, i think they're targeting certain parts of the dynamic. obviously beer is not a big experience for a lot of college people, but it is for some. this is their way of doing some
targeted marketing. >> that was a shot outside of your -- >> yeah. i like beer and i like slip n slides, but i'm not sure it's a good combo. let me ask you this question. donald trump did something that normal presidents do -- >> thanks, dom. >> he talked about how great the market was. he said this trump market. now if the market takes a dive, does trump take responsibility for that? >> i'm wondering was that his $1 trillion that was lost last week? >> i don't know. >> also, did you see the chart? the debt is exploding under donald trump in his first year. >> oh, my god. >> cutting taxes. >> the problem is, our government is going to have to borrow over $1 trillion for this next year and it's going to go up even more because you've got the defense budget exploding. you've got $1.5 trillion added with tax cuts. >> medicare. >> you've got, of course, medicare and medicaid, social security, constantly puttinging pressure on them. donald trump just said he's not
going to touch any of those things. you've got spending across the government exploding. no tough choices being made. and it will have an impact. it's going to have an impact on our government and as interest rates start to go up, the interest on the national debt just becomes suffocating. so if you are -- if you are young americans, the outlook over the next 10, 15 years can be really, really ominous. because the trump administration and republicans on capitol hill who claim to be fiscal hawks are making no tough choices at all and our debt is exploding. our deficit is exploding. and it has been, by the way, for some time. up next, donald trump used the media as a straw man to rally voters during the campaign. but how much does he really believe reporters on out to get him? howard kurtz has some thoughts on that next on "morning joe."
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dark magic told in the time it takes to brew your cup. first, we head to vermont. and go to our coffee shop. and meet dave. hey. why is dark magic so spell-bindingly good, he asks? let me show you. let's go. so we climb. hike. see a bear. woah. reach the top. dave says dark magic is a bold blend of coffee with rich flavors of uganda, sumatra, colombia and other parts of south america. like these mountains, each amazing on their own. but together? magical. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee. green mountain coffee roasters packed with goodness. with us now, author and media commentator howard kurtz. he has a new book called "media madness." in it he writes, quote, donald trump is taking his presidency as he did his election on nothing less than destroying the credibility of the news media. and the media are determined to do the same to him. to a stunning degree, the press is falling into the president's trap. the country's top news organizations have targeted
trump with unprecedented barrages of negative stories. with some no longer making much of an attempt to hide their contempt. this is at bottom the battle of the truth. who can sell their version to a polarized public that increasingly cannot agree on basic facts. let me start this way. because i always, you know, years back when i would go on radio shows, i spent half the time talking about msnbc. it got really tiresome. i didn't want to talk about keith olbermann or anybody else that was on my network. but we do have to ask you, since it's about truth in the press, let's just get the fox news question out of the way. there are a lot of things that sean hannity and other people in prime times say that do not line up with objective facts. and so i guess a question a lot of our viewers say is how can you write a book about media and the truth and not go after people on your own network? >> i talk every week on my show
about whether people on the right and the left are going too far. i don't agree with everything all the opinion people at fox say. neither do i agree with everything that the op-ed columnist at the "washington post" said when i was there. you usually make the distinction -- not everybody does, if they are attacking the fbi let's say, fox attacks fbi. well, no, it's the opinion people. it's not the news division. whereas people on msnbc, if somebody is very outspoken, ripping the president, doesn't say msnbc calls for revolution in the streets, so i think that's an important distinction. >> there's a line in here that i just absolutely love because it's true. the press is falling into the president's trap. in a sense, he loves it. he loves to send out a tweet early saturday morning because sometimes he just likes to watch the firecracker explode. but it seems what we noted early in the campaign was the press would often overreact, override
a story, then he would seize on that and use it for his advantage. >> that is the trap. when everything's an 11, nothing's an 11. when every single thing he does creates this tsunami of negative coverage, it helps donald trump because it lets him dominate the news agenda every hour of our waking lives it seems it's trump, trump, trump. if he hits back at, i don't know, cable news hosts, that ex-steppe exte extends it. the country is further alienated. when they see them going after the president in ways they think are unfair. >> nick. >> howard, i got to ask you, you know, you talk about the responsibility of reporters and how they're overbearing with the president. but this is a president, i think we can all agree, who has more of a tendency to make things up and lie than office holders in either party. so what is the president exactly
supposed to do? should we not be fact checking him? should we not be looking at what he's saying and seeing if it comb parts with objectives, the reality? >> of course the press needs to fact check the president. i think we get into a situation now where -- by the way, there's a lot of exclusive reporting here about self-destructive leaks and dysfunction at the white house, as well as something his aides call defiance disorder. he does it because that's his style. sometimes he does it strategically. sometimes he does it because he's just angry at reporters and sometimes, you know, he knows that he can set off a firestorm and maybe distract some other things. i'm not saying we shouldn't cover him aggressively. here's one example. remember the international uproar when ivanka trump at the g-20 in germany took her father's seat for a few minutes? he asked her twice. she said no way. she knew there would be a media freakout.
that is just not on the same level as charlottesville and some of the other things and some of the other controversial policies the president pursues. >> right. >> howard, you have, because you're a great student of the press, you've gone through and saw barack obama was subject to various made-up stories, apology tours -- >> not on this level. >> well, i'm not sure. you also can say -- kind of emphasize the point that nick just made. you conceit the point, right? the president lies routinely, constantly, from the podium. "the new york times" makes catalogs of it. i mean, it is a different world when you have -- i think part of the reason the trump is reacting to the way it has to some extent, treating him differently, is that he is treating them and the truth differently. >> most importantly, so when sarah huckabee sanders goes up and says something that's objectively false, when -- the same thing with kellyanne, the same thing with the president,
how does the press keep that in context without overreacting? what's your thesis on that? how should the press response to that? >> look, i'm a lifelong journalist. i love the news business. i think there needs to be fact-checking. the problem is, people increasingly don't believe the fact checkers because there is a tone. but there is a tone and an almost sort of cultural disdain i think that a lot of journalists privately have for this president. you told katie couric recently we've overstepped. reflexively anti-trump on all things. >> my question is -- >> yes. >> i'm asking you. this isn't a leading question. i'm saying, the great challenge for all of us i think is how do we keep it in context? and also when we're reporting on the president's state of the union, and it may be -- may be he's done better than a lot of people expected, how do we keep that in context when it's happening at the same time that
he has conducted a war against, say, the fbi or the justice department -- >> and the media. >> calling the media enemies of the people. how do you keep it in context? >> he goes too far when he calls them the enemy of the american people. but sometimes the media are their own worst enemy. if he does something reasonable good, gives a decent speech, give the guy the benefit once in a while. >> i think you've -- i mean, you talk about the tone. isn't the tone set by him on many levels with the problems that we're seeing out there that you're addressing in this book? and the media freakout about ivanka trump taking the seat, you don't think fox news and other news organizations, and i'll put that in quote, wouldn't have gone totally crazy if malia obama sat in for president obama and worked for him, i mean, these are honest questions.
or chelsea clinton? i mean, i feel like you're setting up a -- kind of a, you know, little bit of a fake, well, you guys are freaking out -- >> a lot of this book talks about what journalists privately say about president trump, privately calling him a racist. a reporter said he's threatening the planet entirely to appease his base. look, the president gets to set the tone, we get to criticize the tone, that's fine. >> right. >> i think if there is a sense in the country that we are constantly on this guy's case, that we never give him the benefit of doubt, and i'm not pro trump, i'm pro reality. i think the media has said he's different as a president. true, that's absolutely true. therefore, we have to cover him differently. there's taa tipping point. >> give us some reporting, people buy this book what this re going to learn that maybe
they haven't heard already? >> they're going to learn that reince priebus believe also the fbi's form are number two, andrew mcgabe, set him up, when it was mccabe who initiated the conversation. they're going to learn bannon on the way out warned the president that -- don't think you're getting away without building this wall, you've said it too many times. nancy pelosi will take over the house and they will swear themselves in and blanking impeach you. you're also learning about how far some journalists are going in their resentment not just for president trump but his supporters. one line, a vote for president trump is a hate crime. >> congratulations on the book. >> thank you. >> congratulations, you weren't kicked off the set. >> i know. >> i made it. >> howie actually said my goal is not to get kicked off. >> the book is