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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  February 16, 2018 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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we are done, but this is a night to keep watching an the news. i will be on the last word" later. "hardball" starts right now. >> conspiracy. let's play "hardball good evening. i'll chris matthews in washington. a bombshell news out of special counsel robert mueller's probe of russian interference. putting in black and white something president trump has denied for more than a year, that a group of russians interfered in the 2016 election to help his campaign and hurt
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hillary clinton's. it came in a federal grand jury indictment of 13 russians and three russian companies. according to the mueller indictment, at defendants' operations included supporting the presidential campaign of then candidate donald j. trump and disparaging hillary clinton. among the charges, conspiracy to defraud the united states, the indictment provides a comprehensive blueprint of that conspiracy, detailing exactly how the russians conducted information warfare against this country starting back in 2014. those methods were described today by the justice department official who oversees the special counsel's probe. deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. >> the defendants allegedly kunged what they called information warfare against the united states. they used stolen or fictitious american identities, fraudulent bank accounts and false identification documents. the defendants posed as
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politically and socially active americans. advocating for and against particular candidates. they established social media pages and groups to communicate with unwitting americans. the russians also recruited and paid real americans to engage in political activities, promote political campaigns and stage political rallies. according to indictment, the americans did not know they were communicating with russians. >> the 37-page indictment alleges the russian influence operation was more expansive than we previously knew and involved intelligence gathering here on u.s. soil. the indictment alleges that while posing as americans, these russians obtained information from unwitting u.s. citizens in one case, for instance, the defendants and their co-conspirators learned from a real u.s. person they should focus their activities on purple states like colorado, virginia and florida. and while this particular indictment does not allege that members of the trump campaign
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actively participated in the conspira conspiracy, it shows some unknowingly talked to russians who posed as u.s. citizens. despite the development from the probe, it's unlikely the russians will be extradited to face trial. however by asserting a conspiracy took place, and laws were broken, mueller has now established the underlying crime of this investigation. the underlying crime. joining me is ken dilanian, investigator reporter with nbc news, chuck rosenburg, former u.s. attorney and mika eoyang is a former staff director to the house intelligence committee and june sigh fer is a former cia officer. let me go to our friend ken. underlying crime. it's often said in conspiracies, it's the cover-up, not the crime. in this case, we have a crime. >> right, and that's important for two reasons, chris. one, mueller has established a complex conspiracy at the heart
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of this russian interference campaign and he's laid out a road map how that happened on the russian side. but now, what that means is that anybody in the trump team or any manor helped that conspiracy by what's called an overt act can be charged as parts of it, even if that overt act wasn't technically illegal. chuck can correct me if i'm wrong, that's my undering it of conspiracy law. as long as they agreed and knew about the agreement to interfere in the election and violate american law, the actual act whatever they did does not necessarily have to be a crime. number two, a lot of people say how can trump obstruct justice if there's no underlying crime. mueller laid out the offenses which is a conspiracy to defraud the united states and to violate u.s. election law, chris. >> let's go to chuck on that. the question i have, didn't we all know beginning by late summer of 2016, there was russian efforts to meddle in our
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campaigns? >> we knew it but didn't know it in this extraordinary. >> the trump people would know it. they were helping the russians doing something they were already doing. >> that's right. this is an extraordinary level of detail. kudos to the investigators and prosecutors who put this together. there's a lot of work that goes into indictment like this. >> which struck me, chuck, there's so much more to this investigation by the mueller operation than we know about here on television, what we try to cover in the daily newspapers. the fact they were able to gather all this information ob these different more than a dozen russians and russian interests, organizations. this was all going on and no one was ready for this. nobody said on thursday, this is coming on friday. there's a lot going on there. >> they're running silent and deep. every now and then the sub surfaces. you saw this in the manafort indictment. an extra level of financial detail. here, an extraordinary level of detail concerning social media platforms, stolen identifications and the like.
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this is a very, very good team. i wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of it. >> john, tell us about being able to gather all this stuff from social media, all the rallies being held in different places i didn't know were happening. hillary in a cage and all this crazy stuff going on. they've been able to track it all down. >> the russians have been doing this type of political and information warfare against us for many, many years. but the advantage they had this time, there's a number of advantages. one of them is the ability to weaponize social media and use these type of things to create bots that can amplify divisive material and push it out. they showed real skill here. and one thing we didn't know before is they were coming to the states to add to this and set up events. >> we in this country like most are very conscious of accents, for example. if somebody comes in with a russian accent which is strong, how come they weren't picked up? you show up at a political meeting, didn't anybody pick up
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on this? >> maybe you're so senior now you don't get on the street. if you walk on the street, there's lots of accents. >> but russian. >> there's lots of russians here, as well. it's a good question. it depends what level these operatives were. the russians are very, very good at this. they have a lot of people who speak languages well. they train them well. if you watch "the americans." >> the indictment alleges to fund their massive influence campaign on social media, the russian defendants and co-conspirators used social security numbers and dates of births of real u.s. persons and created false means of identification including fake driver's licenses and established various russian bank accounts and credit cards often registered in the names of fictitious u.s. personas and in some cases they paid real americans to unwittingly participate in their schemes and planning a pro-trump rally in florida, defendants and co-conspirators asked one u.s. person to build a cage on a
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flatbed truck and another to wear a costume portraying secretary clinton in a prison uniform. dists and their co-conspirators paid the individuals to complete the requests, jump in on this. people are cooperating with these russians and don't know they're working with propaganda, with stuff that's out to undermine our democracy. what did people think they were doing in. >> what you have in a country like this is a wide range of political opinions. the russians are boosting the most divisive of those poips into that's why they push a jill stein candidacy without hopes of her winning. > that's right. and they were targeting minority groups to try and depress turnout and convince them not to vote in the election and trying to make us more divided. >> that works, by the way, because we get the message when minorities don't vote, there's something wrong in our system. >> that's right. >> we take that to heart. it wasn't long before trump attempted to claim the indictments somehow cleared him of wrongdoing.
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"russia starred their anti-u.s. campaign in 2014 long before i announced that i would run for president. the results of the election were not impacted. the trump campaign did nothing wrong. no collusion." he released an official statement saying we can alou those seeking to so rancor to be successful and it's time we stopped the wild and false allegations and theories which only serve to further the agendas of bad aerktz like russia. we must unite to protect the integrity of our democracy. this is from the guy who claimed the president of the united states was an illegal alien and snuck in from africa under be false pretenses. discord, disunity the name of his game. how did trump for months ever since we started talking about russian involvement has said it's a democratic hoax. there is no russian involvement. he convinced half his party, republicans there was no russian involvement because he was afraid people tell me, the people who do psychobasketball,
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if he admitted any russian involvement, he was admitting they threw the election to him, there was an identity there. if they're involved, they throw it to him. how does he get out of it now? >> the notion chris that this vindicates him is crazy. here's why. 80s just an indictment. an indictment is only charging people. there's an introduction,'s an object of the conspiracy section, the manner and means lays out the a to z. there's to vindication section in this indictment. nobody's clears as a result. >> we'll take a break now. right now trump is visiting broward health north hospital where victims of wednesday's school shooting are being treated. see if he speaks to the reporters in that corridor. >> they have done an incredible job. the doctor was amazing. we saw numerous people and incredible recovery. incredible. and first responders, everybody. the job they've done sin credible.
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i want to congratulate them. incredible job. >> did you see the victims, mr. president? >> yes, i did. i did indeed. it's very sad, something like that could happen. but the job the doctors did, the nurses, the hospital, first responders, law enforcement, really incredible. the speed that they got the victims over to the hospital is like -- one case 20 minutes, in one case 19 minutes. from the time of the shots. it's an incredible thing. thank you very much. >> do gun laws need to be changed, mr. president? >> that's, of course, president trump and first lady melania trump at the hospital meeting with the victims of the shooting this week. let's get back to the question. what can you extrapolate from this indictment today of the 16 russian interests and individuals? does it say that's -- let me go back to ken, underlying crime,
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it establishes an underlying crime for further indictments of people who cooperated one way or the other with this. is there any tease in this what's coming? >> well, we know that from the fact that there was a guilty plea of a man named richard pinedo, that there is every potential that robert mueller has other cooperators. and absolutely, he's continuing to investigating this question of whether anybody wittingly on the trump campaign or other americans colluded with this effort. i want to go back to the picture of donald trump. he was acting very presidential there, comforting the nation at a time of crisis. but it's such a great contrast to the way he is not acting presidential in responding to an attack on our country by a foreign government because that's what this is. and instead of explaining to the american public what we're going to do about it, how we'll respond, he's viewing it entirely through the lens of how it affects him as a potential defendant in this case. he's talking about the fact it shows there's no collusion and it vindicates him. it repudiates what he's been
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saying for months which is that it was a hoax and there was no med diding. >> it seems like he has been so sensitive to any mention of the russians, anybody in his cabinet is afraid to mention it, it's like a mob thing, don't mention that to the boss, don't say russian to him. >> it's a deep emotional thing for him. you look at the indictment and the breadth of operation by the russians, you have to wonder if he is concerned he couldn't win without the russians and couldn't win again without their help. >> what gives you you the sense of magnitude like that, that they were able to move thousands of votes? >> that they were able. >> these gimmicks they pulled, the dirty tricks and the cage and the person imitating hillary. how much draw was that? any way we can decide? >> it's hard to snknow. but given the narrowness of the margin in particular in just
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three states, it's hard to fellow speci snow, depressing votes in minority communities, trying to divert people to third parties, often third party candidatesened had enough votes that could have made a difference, there are real questions here. it's very hard for trump to say these are regular russians given who has been indicted. th one guy is one of putin's favorite oligarchs and he was funding and directing this operation. >> to what effect? what's his interest? some rich russian. why does he care about screwing up our election? >> he's putin's dirty tricks guy, like the guy putin goes to when he's looking for difficult things to do. >> somewhere in the summer of '16, they went from let's screw this thing up and humiliate american democracy. they are envious of it. we are the model of the world
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with democracy. maybe we can win with this guy trump. somewhere they changed according to this indictment. >> certainly early on, it depends which narrative you follow. there's a narrative from the steele dossier that suggests they were working with trump people prior to that point and helping them in the primaries as well as the election. it was more clear what we've seen from the intelligence community and from the justice department for example, that is they were working to help mr. trump by the summer of 2016. and that is very clear. >> chuck? >> by the way, remember the central tenet of the steele dossier was ha russians were interfering in our election. now you have 37 pages of an indictment that say precisely that. >> it's looking good. in addition to targeting clinton, the indictment alleges the effort aimed to denigrate other candidates such as ted cruz and marco rubio and to support bernie sanders. the russian operation was also tied to encourage u.s. minority groups not to vote or vote for a
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third party u.s. presidential candidate like jill stein. you were making that point, mie mieke. >> i think it's difficult in our system the way the electoral college works to have people diverted off the two-party system. >> it kills the mandate for the winner. it's diffused. ken dilanian, thank you and chuck rosenburg, mieke eoyang and john cipher. >> today's news is like the moment barack obama produced his full length birth certificate. now that will mueller has indicted 13 defendants, trump can no longer dismiss it as fake news or a hoax. it's real, mr. trump. it happened. mueller thinks he can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. that's what the prosecution is about, that's ahead. plus, trump's denials helped fuel the republican fog machine. a lot of republicans have followed trump's lead, refusing to admit russia interfered to
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help trump. 2016. will they still deny that tonight? also tonight, the president is in florida in the community of parkland where they are calling out for help and an end to the gun violence we saw there week. >> finally let me finish with trump watch. he won't like it because he's not doing anything on the gun front or the russia front. are defined by the things we share. and the ones we love. who never stop wondering what we'll do or where we'll go next. we the people who are better together than we are alone... are unstoppable. welcome to the entirely new expedition. excuse me, are you aware of what's happening right now? we're facing 20 billion security events every day. ddos campaigns, ransomware, malware attacks... actually, we just handled all the priority threats.
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you did that? we did that. really. we analyzed millions of articles and reports. we can identify threats 50% faster. you can do that? we can do that. then do that. can we do that? we can do that. so now that robert mueller has answered the question about russian election interference once and for all, top democrats want president trump to finally enact those sanctions against russia that congress overbhepingly passed. today senate democratic leader chuck schumer issued a statement saying given these indictments president trump should implement the sanctions congress passed immediately. the indictments are a reminder that russia will continue to try to interfere in our democracy. the administration needs to be far more vigilante in protecting the 2018 elections and alert the american republic anytime the
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russians attempt to interfere. those sanctions passed both houses by a vote of 517-5. we'll be right back. put the phone away, and use a knife and fork for. and with panera catering, it's food worth sharing. panera. food as it should be. jimmy's gotten used to his whole yup, he's gone noseblind. odors. he thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this... luckily there's febreze fabric refresher for all the things you can't wash. it finds odors trapped in fabrics and washes them away as it dries. and try pluggable febreze to continuously eliminate odors for up to 45 days of freshness. pluggable febreze and fabric refresher. two more ways to breathe happy. you or joints. something for your heart... but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish,
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welcome back to "hardball." special counsel robert mueller's indictments today outline a vast russian conspiracy to help trump win the presidential election. while none of those indicted will likely face trial and an american judge rather this indictment will stand as the most comprehensive documentation of how far russia went to help trump. president trump has always been skeptical publicly. the "washington post" reports when donald trump finally acknowledged publicly that russians hacked democratic e-mails and interfered in the 2016 presidential election, the then president-elect immediately regretted add blitzing it. he did not believe the intelligence. today's news knocks down one of his arguments about russian interference.
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>> there was absolutely no collusion. everybody knows it. every committee. i've been in office now for 11 months, for 11 months. they've had this phony cloud over this administration, over our government. and it has hurt our government. it does hurt our government. it's a democrat hoax that was brought up as an excuse for losing an election that frankly, the democrats should have won. >> the whole russian thing is what it's turned out to be. this was the democrats coming up with an excuse for losing an election. they didn't know what to say. so they made up the whole russia hoax. >> no, russia did not help me. okay? russia. i call it the russian hoax. one of the great hoaxes. actually, that's the thing i was thinking about. that's the thing that the democrats did best. honestly had, it's the hinge they did best. threw did a rotten job of running but to convince people about this hoax, that was probably the thing they did best
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but it is one great hoax. russia, did not help me. that i can tell you, okay? we didn't win because of russia. we won because of you. have you seen any russians in west virginia or ohio? or pennsylvania? they're trying to cheat you out of the leadership you want with a fake story that is demeaning to all of us. >> we, that's great showmanship talk about the facts. john brennan tweeted the extent and motivations of russian interference in the 2016 election, claims of a hoax is in tatters. my take implausible the actions did not influence the views and votes of some americans. today a source tells bloomberg news the special counsel has not concluded their investigation into whether president donald trump or any of his associates helped russia interfere in the 2016 election. i'm joined by suessage page from "usa today" and congress man dave jolly. i just want to give a personal
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observations. i hang out with a lot of progressives. and i have -- and they complain. they're pretty good complainers and they can whine. in none of them said they lost the election because of the russians. any understood the campaign didn't reach the right voters. they know that. some of them will blame comey because he did something dramatic 11 days before the election he announced clinton still under investigation. of course, that hurt dramatically. take that off the table here. but trump, i'm told, almost like a mobster, if you're in his cabinet and say the word russian he goes ballistic. any mention of russian involvement he takes as a statement they gave it to him. >> a question of his legitimacy as president. while he's hailing some of these findings today as exoneration which is at least premature, what this does is show he can no longer call it a hoax. when he says did you see any
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russians in ohio or pennsylvania? the answer would be yes, now we know they were there. >> they can fake the accents. >> in fact, this shows a degree of sophistication and a timeline that is much bigger than what we thought. >> dave jolly, figuring out american politics is hard enough for us here. sitting in moscow trying to figure it out, i wonder how they were able to go get jill stein so they won't vote for hillary. the stein voter was not going to vote for trump, but probably would vote for hillary. african-american votes that don't vote could have voted probably for hillary. get them not to vote. they know what they're doing. >> they do. there are two stories today. one is we finally saw the very significant complexity of this organization, deep detail. we also plain display the erosion of the presidency under donald trump. in his reaction. he responded today more like a
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defendant than he did the leader of the country. he blamed obama saying it started in '14. he said they didn't impact the win. he won fair and square. he said there was no collusion. any other president today would have expelled russian diplomats, imposed sanctions, coordinated with the secretary of state dhs and the attorney general and spoken with one voice on the world stage in response to what wasified today. this president can't do it because bob mueller's on his doorstep and what he showed today was the weakness he has created in the office of the presidency under his administration. >> are you saying he's too self-centered narcissistic or aware they're coming for him? >> it could be both. for the country and this is where it's grave, almost more grave than what russia tried to do. the grat grave matter is we have a leader of the country who is not responding to this. what we also saw today was the confrontation, adversarial relationship between his own department of justice and the
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president of the united states. >> the irony here is i think you point out the president in defending against the russians involvement, he's siding with them. it's a weird thing. why would anybody say you know, i'm with them. they didn't get involved at all. >> he's saying it didn't matter much. >> he has previously said he believed putin when putin told him he didn't meddle, that he was inclined to believe him. >> can he keep it up? >> it gets harder and harder. this very much strengthens the position that the special counsel is in. these indictments go to the fundamental charge that he was tacked to do, which is to investigate russian meddling. he's found this incredible network of meddling and now he has kind of a stronger basis on which to go and look at collusion, the e-mails, this didn't deal with the hacking of e-mails and the issue of obstruction of justice. >> it's fascinating the fact i'm
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learning all the time learning about the packet that once you've established which they can do through indictments and convictions even in absentia, an underlying crime than any actions by the sophisticated or not, any actions taken by carter page or manafort or any ef these people, rick gates, any of them may involve collusion, they don't want to know about. that's supporting something, obstruction of justice and covering it up. >> it gives him a huge tool in trying to force people to talk with him and tell him what really happened. >> i have a sense, david, we're going to see more. we're seeing people being lined up, people being turned, threatened with long-term imprisonment, 10 or 20 years. they're not going to do this for donald trump. there's no love there. there was a deal. it's transactional. >> the president of the rnc said today this problems no collusion. it does not. it doesn't exonerate anyone of
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collusion. we can't overlook given the details we now the contacts that flynn had, that trump junior and kushner had in the trump tower, the contacts that papadopoulos had, all of that is relevant to this investigation and more relevant now than mueller has indicted has indicted the russians. >> we sure as hell know what the russians are doing in those rooms. >> that's exactly right. >> all the way from the oligarchs and putin on down, they were out to screw our elections. every meeting they had was guess why we're here. let me ask you about the politics. right now, i checks the latest polling on this. 49% of republicans don't believe the russians did anything to involve themselves, anything to get involved in our election in 2016. is that going to change. >> this is another issue people see through their partisan filter. i do think as you get past the allegations or sources say or there's one source, this news
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organization has that alleges this or that, when you go to the legal process where there are zims and perhaps trials that that becomes more persuasive even for people inclined to want to believe one side or the other. >> rod rosenstein doesn't strike me as a political type. he looks like a government servant. i watched him tonight. he didn't do it with relish or zeal or joy. he came out and deliberately came out with the facts. >> you're right. he did something interesting. i heard it maybe differently. he did say there is no evidence any this indictment, within those brackets in this indictment, no evidence that it affected the election. no evidence in this indictment of collusion of coordinationing. > is that to keep trump off his back? >> to keep his job. absolutely, that's what i heard him saying. > that's the way i heard it, too. you've got good ears this guy wants to stay around a few more months. thank you, u.s. congressman david jolly. i'm glad you are a former
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congressman because you can talk to us like this. susan, as always. will this latest development rattle trump? that's the big story. i don't think it's going to work. this is "hardball" where the action is. this is bad news for trump today. you
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whatever type of weekender you are, don't let another weekend pass you by. get the lowest price when you book at hilton.com welcome back to "hardball." president trump's denials of russian involvement in the presidential election has fueled
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the republican smoke screen around the russian investigation itself. republicans seem to be buying or had been the president's argument. a recent quinnipiac university poll found nearly half 49% of republicans don't believe russia tried to influence the election. clean hands, they did nothing. mueller's indictments outline definitive efforts to interfere in the elections. can republicans keep refusing to admit the russians did what they did? tonight the president's meeting with law enforcement officials and lawmakers in broward county, florida as we wait for that, we'll talk about this. let's bring in the roundtable, ken vogue, yamiche alcindor for pbs and jason johnson. in that order, tell us, will this news be new to people? will it impact their thinking about the whole russian role? >> i don't think it will right now because republicans have worked so hard to discredit the mueller investigation, discredit the fbi. polls show that's working.
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that republicans believe that this is some kind of bias witch hunt that the russians didn't do nothing. do they really believe that? >> i think historically, and as we move on, this is document. >> remember sergeant schultz, i don't know nothing. i don't know nothing. how long can the republicans say i don't know nothing about the russians involvement in our elections. >> i don't think they can anymore. they can no longer use the narrative that says russia, this whole thing is made up. we don't know what's going on. they have laid out in 37 pages exactly what went on. so they can no longer say they didn't know. we were just watching president trump say did you see any russians in west virginia? the fbi said here are all the states they visited. yes, there were russians in those states. >> this sounds very chauvinistic. how did boris and natasha go bopping around the states and nobody noticed they're showing up. maybe they have perfect
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idiomatic american acsens? >> that's what i'm thinking. i watch "the americans." they train for years like this. you can't walk into virginia and georgia and hide your accent. >> i can't hide. >> i don't think it's possible. here's what i think. we're going to see and we've heard this before, the narrative is going to shift. remember, it was no collusion happened. then it was well collusion's not illegal. it used to be the russians didn't have any involvement. now they'll say it wouldn't have made a difference. >> the goal line changes. >> i don't think they're done with no collusion. you already see republicans thinking through this. >> you notice how trump would give in on president obama's birth certificate and then he would pull back and he sort of would fade out and on a boring day in october he would say this is all bullshit. >> i think part of this indictment is actually an effort to definitively show there were
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russian efforts to meddle in the election. maybe it's a message to donald trump as well as i think like i said historically. >> let's talk about the serious strategic question. most countries would be focused less on a guy named trump and his narcissism and be focused on vee val you democracy. america started this democracy, we believe in it. it isn't perfect in terms of the franchise. not everybody votes but you're allowed to vote. and i just wonder, is this going to affect people and the way they look at the next election when they go down to the voting booth and leave the kid off or on the way to work and they go, are they thinking now, i'm voting but is somebody else playing a hand in this thing. >> it's going to impact how people interact on social media. you're going to wonder where are you getting information from. hopefully people will say i'm not just going to read the headlines. i'm going to look for things. the russians were not just
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helping donald trump. they were also looking at and saying hey, we should help him and trying to hurt ted cruz. this is a little bit larger than trump. in the midterms you'll say i really like this senator, i don't like this senator. you start thinking at home, why am i voting for this person? because my friend on facebook told me to vote for him or because i know what's going on. >> i should apologize for that word. i should have said bs. i said the full word. i didn't mean to. it does seem strange. we have the school shootings. i'll talk about that at the end. the president won't do anything about the ar-15. nothing about the weapons in hands of taken kids. nothing about the russian interference, not a word against it. it is bs. i shouldn't have said the full word into that's the thing. we have both domestic and international concerns and our president doesn't seem to care or our president consistently wants to deny these things. look, we have the head of the cia said the russians are
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planning on doing what they can in the 2018 election. what concerns me long-term is not phishing e-mail that goes to a lady in ohio for a senate race. i'm worried they can target committees and. >> a blue haired lady in ohio will be very unhappy. >> they can look at purple districts and say this is where we should put efforts. they can watch cable news or they can be reading the same books that you have political science students reading over the country to a this is the places we need to be focused on. they know the issues of america, race -- immigration is something. wages. >> we've got buttons. >> very clear buttons that russia can press. >> ken, i think it's a fairly good bet, and i think about this all the time that 2018 is going to be close in the house. i'm not sure the democrats will walk away with this. within ten or so either way. i think -- i also think that unless they get a message which
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had help. i think the 2020 election will be close. i don't think trump's an easy guy to beat if he runs again. i don't see a strong democratic contender yet. if the russians push a few buttons, they can affect the election again. >> it's difficult to determine. did they make an impact in this state or that state. frankly, i thought some of the stuff was rather uns unsophisticated. they had to travel to west virginia to find out what were purple states. you can find that online. the fact they were willing to spend this much and put together in sophisticated effort and they're willing to do so again, you just don't know how much something like this could affect the result. >> i've got to say this. we have to remember we've got 13 indictments against people in russia. last year we had nine russian diplomats disappear. clearly someone over there might be concerned about the impact of us investigating this issue, as well. i don't think the fact that we
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have found 13 now that mueller wants to indict is the end of this. i think there will be a lot more people. >> as pointed out by ken and others what's going on is establish agunderlying crime. anything henceforth will be con spiry to obstruct or include. roundtable is sticking with us. you're watching "hardball." out f the greatest upset in american sports history. but we were more than american... i never realized we were from all over. italian, middle eastern, jewish, turkey, iran. that's what makes america what it is. we all came together as one. that's what made us champions. fthere's flonase sensimist.tchy and watery near pollen. it relieves all your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. and all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. flonase sensimist.
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president trump's in florida this evening visiting victims of wednesday's school shooting in parkland that left a community calling out for help and an end to the kind of gun violence we saw this week. as we saw earlier this hour, the president said it's very sad something like that could happen but ignored a question about gun control loss. ken, jason anya meech, a lot of talk about mental illness although i've been thinking ahead about this trial of this young guy. i don't think he's going to be disqualified from facing criminal charges and possibly capital punishment. just speculating there, i don't
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think anybody thinks you're off the hook by saying emotional or mental illness, is an act of god kind of stuff. i don't think people will buy that in the courtroom. and so therefore, it's about the gun. >> right. >> i think. >> right. it's like ovens don't kill people. we all know it's the guns. it doesn't have to do with mental illness. if we get into the territory of saying mental illness prevents you from getting a gun, if a woman who has been abused and gets away from her husband and wants a gun to protect herself, i want her to be able to protect herself. >> at least get hold of a frying pan, some kind of weapon. >> so at the end of the day, i think it's a red herring. it's an excuse. we have to talk about the guns. we have to talk, it is frightening for people to consider how people get radicalized. this kid isn't just angry. we need to look at the roots of this and figure out what gives
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you attitude to engage in this behavior. >> we restrict pain killer, booze, we restrict cigarettes. you can't have a cigarette. all it can do is hurz herself or his self. we have restrictions on voting. you have to keep registered and get a special thing if you're not a driver. all kinds of restrictions on our rights except for guns. >> i've been talking to gun advocates who say i don't care whether you restrict bump stocks which is the thing that makes guns essentially turns them into more automatic weapons. there's this idea, once you start taking away one right. >> who told them that? >> it sounds like an nra line. >> they tell us we can only drive 65 miles an inthour on an interstate. we're used to restrictions in our life. >> we have the mental health conversation usually talking about white men. the idea that he was also the
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leader of this white national group is saying yes, he was one of us. that's a part of this. that doesn't mean he went out and targeted people because they were white. >> you know the history when the panthers were out there armed and dangerous, posing with rifles, the other community got a little concerned, a little more pro gun control. you were too young. >> i remember that. >> i've read about it. >> you read about it. is was the '60s. >> the grassroots of the republican party. >> more generally is mobilize around this issue and they're going to fight any politician who would propose stringent efforts at gun control. any efforts at gun control including ones seen as more minor like the bump stocks because they see it as a stepping stone. >> hosteling them that. >> the nra. >> if they said the opposite, like why did, this is so boring, i've said it a million types, you can't buy a tommy gun. i was reading about al capone
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and murders back then with bugs malone. the packet is, they had tommy guns and people said mobsters have tommy gun bnz we're going to take them away. where was the nra back then? >> it wasn't as powerful and as effective at mobilizing voters. the fact that the nr app is pushing this message is not enough. there has to be a receptive audience. there is in this country particularly in purple states where we see competitive senate elections coming up. that is a road map you can look at to determine the concourse of this debate. >> i look at north dakota claire mccaskill has been courageous here and bob casey. they're up for re-election and drawing a line on these weapons that nobody needs to hunt with. these are guns for rapid killing of people. >> they're people that see this as part of the culture. i've been on the phone with people who say don't touch my gun. this is a sad that they need to figure it out. we can add to that the fbi seems to have missed admitted today
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they missed following up on a tip. that gives a lot of people. >> what are they supposed to do? restraining room. >> gives people an excuse saying the fbi should do their job better. >> imagine a society where anybody who has an emotional problem gets picked up and go to guantanamo. the roundtable is sticking with us. you're watching "hardball."
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broward. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. ken, tell me something i don't know. >> on the indictment mueller handed down today, there were nor -- there were no charges for vi laying campaign finance law, rather, there was a charge for conspireing to prevent the enforcement of campaign be finance law. but we learned that the federal election commission had actually been investigating this very troll farm and some of these officials sending letters to them, highly unusual step last year. and we that there may have been some coordination between the fec and doj. >> you probably know about this. but a former playboy playmate says she had a nine-month affair with president trump. the national enquirer paid her $82,000 for the story but never ran it. it goes to the idea president
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trump was cheating on melania two years into their marriage. >> something called grab and catch and hold. >> catch and release. >> go ahead, jason. >> in the midst of scandals you like to say at least keep the trains running on time. railroad officials went to congress and said it's going to take sus another two years to implement the kind of air brake pores safety to prevent some of the tragedies we've been having and ooh even longer process because they lost the head of the division. >> back after this. [burke] vengeful vermin.
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trump watch friday, february 16th. 201. we find ourselves this friday night a country under assault. but with a leader refusing to take action. our justice department today found that nashs of the russian federation interfered in our 016 election. yet the president remains unmoved by the evidence of this assault on our democracy. his reaction today was to focus on his own defense deny his own collaboration in this assault. he's incapable of considering the country's defense. as to the assault on the home front, that on the classrooms and halls of our takeners he's also unable to perform and remains protective of the ar-15 being run into our schools. this serves as a guarantee on the ar-15's future. why not purchase the weapon in many states as easy to bias it is show shoot. with an american commander refusing to defend his country, what stops putin from engaging again this election year in what
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the online thugs pulled off in 2016? two years ago they disapparentlied hillary clinton as the mueller indictments they created bogus internet postings, posed online as an american political activists and fraudulently purchased advertisements with the goal of sewing discord in our country. shooting up our schools and killing kids is another way of sewing discord, so is having a president unwilling to stop the kremlin or the next killer now casing out his old high school. that's already for now. thanks for being with us. all-in" starts right now. tonight on "all in"ing. > will you put sanctions on russia? >> nothing on russia, mr. president? >> 13 russians indicted for election interference. >> mr. president, will you punish russia. >> robert mueller lays out a grand

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