tv MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi MSNBC February 28, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PST
one thing, white lies are still lies. that will wrap things up for me. ali velshi starts now. >> don't go far because we want to talk about this story you and carol have broken about the mueller investigation. >> i'm ali velshi. we were supposed to have reaction from sarah huckabee-sanders and her briefing was cancelled to make room for president trump's meeting with bipartisan lawmakers to talk about school and community safety in the midst of a fer vent call for gun control in america but the attention may not just be on guns because of this nbc news exclusive. nbc news has new reporting that robert mueller is is now asking pointed and specific questions about whether donald trump himself knew that democratic e-mails had been stolen before that became public knowledge and whether he was involved in their strategic release. this is key. this is according to people -- multiple people familiar with the investigation.
investigators are focusing on this news conference that took place in july of 2016. and remember, keep these dates in your head because they become very, very important. this took place while the democratic national convention was underway. in which trump, then the republican nominee, made this specific plea to russia. listen. >> russia, if you are listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. >> people at the time thought that was unusual and it is. witnesses also tell us this man, roger stone, trumps long-time confidant is also the focus with officials asking him about contacts with wikileaks during the campaign and whether he met with the founder julian assange. stone released this statement. i never discussed wiki-leaks or assange or the hillary disclose
ires with candidate trump, before, during or after the election. i have no idea what he knew about them and from who and when and i have never met assange. >> and we reached out to the white house and the legal team, john dowd, the outside attorney who told nbc, quote, we do not discuss our knowledge of or communications with the special counsel. with me now is a reporter on the story. a face familiar to you, katy tur and hans nichols at the white house. katy, let me start with you. this is key because the denial of the trump campaign around involvement with russia, if this knowledge was there, that would change the shape -- >> it is key because it seemed like the investigation into donald trump himself was more about the obstruction of the investigation. not about what was happening in 2016 during the election. and this line of questioning that we're hearing about now poiptss us in -- pointing us in a different direction back to
the focus is what did trump campaign and the now president did what wikileaks were release the e-mails. was he involved in the coordination, did he know about the coordination. and they are focusing in on the july press conference because donald trump stood in front of reporters and i was there in miami and he said, we have a sound bite -- >> different sound of the president of the united states because he's talking about -- he's talking. stay right there. let's listen to the president. >> we forget and go back on and have another problem. we want to stop the problems from happening. so as we continue to mourn the loss of so many precious young lives in parkland, florida, we're determined to turn our grief into action. i really believe that. i think the people at this table want it. i see some folks that don't say nice things about me and that is okay. because if you turn that into this energy, i will love you.
i don't care. weelt -- we'll be able to do. sadly these horrible mass shootings are nothing new. i asked for a list of -- you look at columbine, colorado. bill clinton was president. virginia tech, george bush. ft. hood, sandy hook, san bernardino. pulse nightclub and so many more. it is ridiculous. so today we're here on a bipartisan fashion to show leadership and in an effort to end the senseless violence and it can be ended and it will be ended. and first we must harden our schools against attack. including allowing people with a certified training, very talented people to carry firearms. and some people will disagree with that and i understand that. i fully understand that. and if you do, speak up today
and we'll listen. but 98% of all mass shootings in the united states since 1950 have taken place in gun-free zones. where guns were not inside of the school or as an example, you take pulse nightclub. if had you one person in that room that could carry a gun and knew how to use it, it wouldn't have happened or certainly not to the extent that it did. where he was just in there shooting and shooting and shooting. and they were defenseless. so remember that. 98% of all mass public shootings in the united states since 1950 have taken place in gun-free zones. it is terrible. you've got to have defense, too. you can't just be sitting ducks. and that is exactly what we've allowed people in these buildings and schools to be. second, we have to confront mental health. there is never been a case that i've ever seen and i'm sure everybody would feel the same, where mental health was so obviously -- 39 different red
flags. everybody was seeing them. the local police, the state police, the fbi, everybody was seeing that this guy was sick and nothing happened. third, we have to ensure that when students, educators and family, neighbors, when they warn authorities, that the authorities act quickly and decisively, unlike what took place in florida, which was horrible. fourth, we have to pursue kplon sense measures that -- common sense measures that protect the law-abiding americans while keeping guns and -- we have to keep the guns out of the hands of those that pose the threat. and this really included background checks and i know senator that you are working on things. joe, i know you are working and i'm looking at a number of the folks around the table. you are working in different bills wex -- we have to get them done. we have to get them done. and they have to be strong. the background checks, hey,
look, i'm the biggest fan of the second amendment. many of you are. i'm a big fan of the nra, but i had lunch with them, with wayne and chris and david on sunday and said, it's time. we have to stop this nonsense. it is time. so we've made suggestions to many of you and i think you will put the suggestions in place. you'll have your own ideas certain ideas sound good but they are not good. you can harden the site to a level that nobody could get in. but the problem is if the shooter is inside, if he gets into the door and closed the door, we can't get people in. it will cost hundreds of millions of dollars across the country and the door closes and we can't get in. send a tractor through the walls so we have to be careful of that. and we have to create a culture that cherishes life and human
dignity. so we can all sit around and come up with some ideas. hopefully we can put those ideas in a very bipartisan bill. it would be so beautiful to have one bill that everybody could support as opposed to 15 bills, everybody has their own bill. but if we could have one terrific bill that everybody started by the people around this table, special people. these are the people that seem to be just most interested, very interested in this problem. and it is a big problem. so with that, i think i'd like to start -- maybe i'll ask john, you start off and then we'll go back and forth. we'll leave the media for a little while and they can hear some thought. but it is something that can be done. there is no reason for this. but again, i really believe that those people -- it is idealistic and wonderful but if you think somebody could walk into a school and they feel they won't have bullets coming at them from the other direction, you are never going to solve the
problem. i feel that. i feel that. but i'm certainly open to suggestions. so john, why don't you start. you've put in your fix nics and let's see how it is. and go ahead. >> well thank you, mr. president for getting us together and for expressing your sincere concern about this and trying to get us to a solution. i agree with you that leaving this town and going home empty handed is not acceptable. the public demands that we act. we know how hard it is to get people together on a bipartisan basis. but believe it or not, at least in one case senator murphy and i and -- we have a 46 co-sponsors to the co-sponsor of the fix nics. and the house passed its version of it and i believe this is a good place for us to start. as you know, souther land springs we lost 26 people when they -- the guy who from the air
force, a convicted felon, he was convicted of domestic violence and dishonorably discharged from the military and none of which was up loaded into the background checks system maintained by the fbi and that is only as good as the data put into it. and so senator murphy and i and 46 others have what we think is a start. it is not the end-all, be-all. there are other things people want to'd -- to add to it. we talked about the bump stock issue that senator feinsteins cares about. >> and i will write that out. because we can do that with an executive order. i will write it out so you don't have to be worry about bump stock. shortly that will be gone. we can focus on other things. frankly, i don't even know if it is good in this bill. it is nice to have a separate piece of paper where it is done. they're working on this right now. go ahead. >> but we need to get tarted --d on only things people can do.
and people ought to offer more ideas and i'm not sure they've pass. in the past we've acquiesced to failure and not done things within our power to accomplish like the fix nics bill so i would like to recommend to you and colleagues that we get that done and build on it. we don't stop there. we build on it. and because none of us want to look these families in the face in the wake of another mass shooting and say, we failed to do everything within our power to stop it. >> and john, fix nics has some really good things but it would be flies if -- nice if we could add everything on it and change the title, the u.s. background checks check bill or whatever. your bill is good and important having to do with a certain aspect but make it much more comprehensive instead of 15 bills where nobody knows what is happening. >> if we can get 60 votes for
it. >> i believe this is one of the things where you could get the 60 votes and maybe easily. diane, do you have something? >> well, i do. mr. president, you probably know this, but i became mayor of san francisco as a product of the assassination. i've been the victim of terrorist groups, the department gave me a weapon. they taught me how to shoot it. and we proceeded through the 1970s that way. what i've watched and seen is the development of weapons that i never thought would leave the battlefield. that are out on our streets. and the latest and newest, mr. chairman, is the ar-15. it has a lot of assets to it and it's misused. and it tears apart a human body with the velocity. and i've watched the school shootings in particular. which you pointed out.
and i thought sandy hook and i'm delighted that the soeshts murp mur -- that senator murphy is here today. we thought sandy hook would be the end and he and i introduced another assault weapons bill after the first one. we didn't succeed with it. but the killings have gone on, the number of -- of incidents h gone up and i'll put my case in writing which i will give you if i may in letter form. >> good. thank you. >> and secondly, the assault weapons legislation, this is the number of incidents before and -- of incidents and of deaths. this is when the ten-year assault weapon ban was in. incidents and deaths drop. when it ended, you see it going up. >> okay. >> so senator murphy. >> we'll take a look at it.
>> 26 of us have co-sponsored a bill and i would be most honors if you will take a look at it and let you know what you think of it. >> i will. thank you very much. chris. >> mr. president and thank you for taking this seriously. our hearts go out to park larnd and going through sandy hook we know the neighborhood will not be the same. and i want to come back to background checks because i think there is real opportunity. >> i agree. >> there is no other issue like background checks. 98% of americans want background checks and in states with background checks there are 35 less percent gun murders and we can't get it done. where it works, people want it and we can't do this. >> but you have a different president now. >> well, listen -- >> you went through a lot of presidents and didn't get it done. you have a different president and maybe you have a different attitude.
i think people want to get it done. >> listen, in the end, mr. president, the reason that nothing has go gotten done is because the gun lobby had a veto power over any legislation that comes before congress. i wish that wasn't the case but it is. and if all we end up doing is the stuff that the shotgun industry supports, then this just isn't worth it. we are not going to make a difference. and so i'm glad that you sat down with the nra. but we will get 60 votes on a bill that looks like the manchin toomey if you come to congress and come to republicans and say we are going to do i bill to get comprehensive background checks it will pass. but if this meeting ends up with vague notions of future compromise, then nothing will happen. >> i agree. we don't want that. >> so i think we have a unique opportunity to get comprehensive background checks and make sure nobody buys a gun in this country that is criminal and seriously mentally ill on the terrorist watch list. but mr. president, it will have
to be you that brings the republicans because right now the gun lobby would stop in its tracks. >> i love that responsibility. i think it is time that a president stepped up. i'm talking democratic and republican presidents they have not stepped up. and before a call on marco, i would like to have pat toomey and joe manchin, could you detail your bill because i haven't heard a lot about it. >> aiks. thank you, mr. president and our best chance is the bill, we got 54 votes. the first title is a title very similar to what cornyn and chris murphy's bill does. it strengthens the reporting of information into the background checks. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> absolutely. one bill is nicer than having seven bills. >> the second part has a
provision that would require background checks on all commercial sales. one of the big gaps in our background checks is sales at gun shows an over the internet are not necessarily subject to a background checks. and we think they should be. these are essentially commercial in nature and they are on a scale that really matters. so our bill would require those background checks. we also have a number of provisions which we'll -- >> you have support for that? >> for -- >> bipartisan support for what you are saying? >> we have 54 votes in 2013. and most of those 54 are still in the senate. >> and you didn't have a lost presidential back-up. >> mr. president -- >> the president did support it. >> but that was your problem. >> but there was a worry that he wanted to go further and that was a concern. and there are two other iemts -- items. one is ways in which a law-abiding citizen could have greater freedom to exercise the second amendment, allowing an active duty military person to be able to buy a firearm in his home state. today that is against the law.
it shouldn't be. our bill would correct that. a numberch other small things. and then finally we create a commission to look at the sources and the causes of these terrible mass killings. >> are you doing it in the schools? >> we have a school safety program in this bill also. whether i was governor, we fixed a lot of schools. we remodeled schools and not one argued that they were told-that said governor manchin you have to have the windows bulletproof. we never knew that. no one came to me with that concern and that is how sandy hook should weigh in. we make sure that we addressed that. mr. president, there is not a person in west virginia that doesn't believe you will defend amendment rights. and it gives them comfort that something reasonable and this bill has been vetted for over five years an 70% of gun owners said we like your bill, pat and joe, we're afraid that president obama would take more rights
away. that is what i was running into in west virginia. >> or use that as an excuse not to sign it. because he was not proactive in getting a bill signed. >> in all fairness, this is a bill with your support it would pass. and we think -- it takes commercial sales. >> and maybe to that bill -- if we use that as a base, you could add some of the things said in the room or you may not want to. but you're going to be things that are said today that i think will be in addition to yours, which you could add almost everything. because you know what that involves. i think it is a very positive thing. in terms of background chekss. >> on this piece of legislation, without background checks on commercial transactions so if a person basically -- when the terrorists say, hey, go down to the local gun show and get whatever you want. because you can be in a gun show, two-thirds of the gun show
could ha could have -- licensed dealers withba background checks and th next table doesn't have one. that is interpol. if you are selling outside of the state you have to have aback. if you sellin state, it doesn't have to. this closes all of the loopholes. this is a piece of legislation -- >> we have to do something about the mentally ill not to buy a gun. and it could take six months before you are prohibitive. and we have to do something decisive. take the guns away immediately from people that you could ajudge are easily mentally ill like this guy. you know the police saw that he was a problem and they didn't take any guns away. that could have been policing. they should have taken them away any way. whether they have the right or not. but i'll tell you this. you have to have very strong provisions for the mentally ill. and people are saying, i shouldn't be saying that. i'll tell you what, i don't want
mentally ill people to have guns. marco. >> mr. president, thanks for bringing us here because we all agree, we know what the issues are that are fought over but what everyone agrees on we don't want to see this happen again anywhere in america. and you mentioned something about the shooting that i think is critical. this was a multi-systemic failure. and without pointing fingers or laying blame on anyone that may or may not be here to defend this. >> the department of children and families in florida knew this was a problem but the big problem is none of them talked to each other. nobody told the others what they knew. and there is a bill out there that senator hatch is going to file very soon and congressman rutherford have already filed and it is called the stop school violence act and i'll let them describe it more in detail but one thing it does is it incentivize the creation of a synergy where people are talking to each other so they could compare notes and get ahead of
this. the best way to prevent these is to stop it before it even starts. that doesn't mean we shouldn't hard ep schools or a debate on other issues but the basketball thing that could happen is know who the people are and get on them and get them the services they need and deny them the right to buy any gun. and i think that is something that holds tremendous bipartisan promise, if we can come together on the things we agree on. and one last point, in the stats of florida, they have a very different [ inaudible ] than we do. but they are already moving on legislation. the governor and the legislature. they will pass something perhaps by the end of the week on a series of things. but none ofles -- nonetheless, hope that is fan example in washington. we can still debate will you bu there are things we agree on and we owe it to those families to do these things. >> i agree. chuck. >> i would like to comment from
this stand point. first of all, a question on mental health, because a lot of people have mental health issues that are not danger to themselves or to others. so so -- i think we have to concentrate on those not just with mental health but those that show danger to themselves or others. i'll che-- comment on the cultu in the schools and i can't say it any better than senator rubio and hatch said it but we have people in the schools that are a atune to people with problems that could prevent this massacre and anything else connected with bullying as one example. we have to do things that the federal -- at the federal level to give schools the resources to do that. so that kind of fits in with what senator hatch is saying. then i'll end with a more of a process. as chairman of the committee that will deal with this
legislation, we have to do something. i want to help facilitate those things and move them along. and see what we can do -- >> it is a great help. i have no doubt. >> to get a consensus. >> you will be a great help. thank you. i would like to ask joe and pat, in your bill, what are you doing about the 18 to 21. >> we didn't address that. >> we didn't change that. >> are you going to leave that? >> that is -- whatever you want. >> if we had a case right now where somebody could buy a handgun at 21. this is not a popular thing to say in terms of the nra, but i'm saying it any way. i just have to say it. but you can't buy -- think of it. you can buy a handgun, but you can't buy one and you have to wait until you're 21. but you could buy the kind of weapon used in the school shooting at 18. i think it is something you have to think about. >> would you sign this -- >> so i will tell you what, i'll give it a lot of consideration and i'm the one bringing it up
and people don't want to bring it up because they're afraid to bring it up. but you can't buy a handgun at 18, 19 or 20, you have to wait until your 21 but buy the gun, the weapon used in this horrible shooting at 18. you are going to decide, the people in this room pretty much will decide, but i could give serious thought -- i can say that the nra is opposed to it and i'm a fan of the nra. it is no bigger fan. i'm a big fan of the nra. they want to do -- these are great people and great patriots. they love our country. but that doesn't mean we have to agree on everything. it doesn't make sense that i have to wait until i'm 21 to get a handgun but i can get this weapon at 18. so i'm curious about what you did in your bill? >> we didn't address it. mr. president. i think -- >> because you're afraid of the nra. >> that is not an issue. >> it is a big issue. and a lot of people are talking about. but a lot of people -- a lot of people are afraid of that issue. raising the age for that weapon
to 21. >> my reservation about it frankly is that the vast majority of 18, 19 and 20-year-olds in pennsylvania who have a rifle or a shotgun, they're not athreat to anyone. they are law-abiding citizens and they have that for hunting or target shooting and to deny them the second amendment right won't make anyone safer. that is my resignation about changing the age. >> i know where you are coming from. i understand it. i think it is a position. it is a position. but i think if we're going to use you as a base, the two of you, i think you're going to have to aariron out that proble. because i'm asked that question more than any other questions. are you going to 21 or not. okay. and anybody? >> mr. president. >> steve. >> i sit around the table like many as a father of four. as an uncle, i was with councilman st williams and we
were campaigning at the same time that newtown happened an she was campaigning. the first four words you said today, mr. president struck with me. we need to act. >> true. >> but the only worst thing that doing nothing is doing something that doesn't achieve the intended result. you were in business your entire life. >> was in business for 28 years. business is not about an activity in doing things, it is about the act of shooting kids is cowardly. moms and dads want to know when they drop off their kids, they are safe. this morning i came in early, i bypassed the gym giving me an excuse to spend some time thinking when nobody else is in the office at 7:00 a.m. and i put to the a sheet of the 14 mass killings in congress to find mass killings found in
newtown incident and that means if there are three or more people who lost their lives, it is considered a mass killing. since columbine we've had 14 of these in our country. and my staff put together a nice spreadsheet but i was handwriting this this morning. looking at where did it happen and what year, how many died? what was the age of the shooter. if under 12, how is that firearm obtained. what was the weapon used and what was the status of the shooter. mostly by the way are suicides. >> and was there offensive fire power on the inside of those facilities so that when the gunman comes in, we have defensive capability. and one other thing, if he knew there was offensive power inside of the 14 events, probably n-- none of them would have happened. so it is important to understand. >> the message of deterrence is important to think about the homicidal and suicidal killers.
and there were meetings in here after 9/11, after that horrible event occurred, there were meetings over the situation room right after it occurred and we made a decision as a nation to secure our skies. we can never let that happen again. we had to restore the trust of the public to get back on airplanes. mr. president, we need to secure our schools because parents want action now. we have some huge society issues, and demographic and these shooters are typically males, they are white, and they're suicidal. >> and they are cowards. >> and they're cowards. and cowards -- cowards can be stopped with deadly force. that is why i agree with you that we need to secure our schools and allow the states and the school board to figure that out. there is rule in federal government and marco talked about what happened in florida. last week in montana i was north
of a school the day after they stopped and arrested an 18-year-old in darby montana because he put on snapchat he would shoot up the school, the countries arrested that young man and likely prevented another mass shooting. that is what we need. >> thank you, steve. and mr. president, i spent a lot of time since the shooting in margory stoneman douglas with the students that have survived. and they've been very clear that what they want is action. and i am heartened by what you say about the need for presidential leadership. you can do this. i understand, mr. president, that you pl that you -- you met with the nra. and not what matters here is not the nra, it is preventing a mass shooting. i'm so grateful to hear that the
senators boomy and manchin bill must be a part of the universal background checks. and the only thing i would add, you started, mr. president. by pointing out there would be differents of opinion. please know there are great differences of opinion on the question of whether happening teachers armed with guns firing back at a potential mass shooter is the answer. i don't think it is. many others don't. please also know that there are -- the majority of the people in this country now understand that there are limitations on the second amendment, you cannot own an automatic weapon or a bazooka and so there is no reason to continue to sell to people a weapon of war like this. i know there are differences of opinion i just hope we can act and that we can show the american people and the kids and their grieving families in my
district that with presidential leadership, it doesn't matter what congress says, that you could help push this forward and that we will consider everything including -- >> good. i like that. and i appreciate. >> that and the fact is a lot is up to the states. and that is good. and states will feel differently. texas as an example, is very much as to what i'm saying -- you've done very well. you haven't had -- >> six more considering -- >> so we have eight states and another six or seven or eight considered. that is okay. and you may be different and have a very good thing for your state. so i don't think the states have to be the same. what does have to be the same are the background checks and the data, whether it is fix nics or the things we are adding. that have to be very much the same. you have to be able to share with states and localities. but i do agree. i think some states are different.
some states will do what texas does and some state don't want that program. i think it is a good program but some states don't want that program. the reason i like it is that i really believe it is going to prevent it from ever happening because they are cowards and then they're not going in when they know they are going to come out dead. and they won't go into a school when they know he will be dead. this guy in florida walked out with everybody and i policeman did a fantastic job two towns away. he wasn't given much credit but he found him and saw him and he looked like the description and he got him. that was a great job. so we have to give -- give them credit. because this man and two or three others, marco, were not exactly very good. they didn't do their job very well. but i do agree. amy. >> thank you for calling us together today and i come from a proud hunting state, you know that. >> yes, you do.
>> and so i have that hat and i have law enforcement, i was a prosecutor for eight years and i got involved in this issue from police coming to me. and one of the issues they raised for years was the fact there was this gun show loophole and issues with commercial purchases that didn't allow them to get the information to maricopa sure people were safe and that is why i have been a strong supporter of the manchin and toomey bill, it couldn't fix everything but a good base to start with. >> it is the best we've ever done. >> and i want to make one more case, from a different perspective and i support diane's bill and other things. but the states that have the background checks, they have a 38% lower domestic homicide rate, this is domestic violence and for those cases especially, it plaquesmakes a major differe. and for this number to keep with you, 6,000 women in ten years were killed by a partner, whether it was a spouse, a
boyfriend, 6,000. that is more than our -- we've lost for brave troops in iraq and afghanistan. so just doing on this background check issue and using that as a base and then i would like to add some of the other things we've talked about. i think it would make a major difference. >> so if you could add that to this bill. that is great. diane if you could add what you have also and i think you can into the bill. >> when you are ready. >> can you do that? joe, can you add some of the -- you won't agree with. i'll help. but can you add what amy and what diane have? can we add them in. >> i have another domestic violence bill that is very narrow and it is about dating partners. and a number of states have just enacted it. >> i will say this -- we're going to get it passed. we're going to get it passed. if you can add domestic violence paragraphs, pages into this bill, i'm all for it. i think it is terrific if you can do it.
it can be done. that could be done too. >> mr. president, could i respectfully that steve scalise will be in a key role in all of this and he's had a personal near tragic experience with one of the mass shootings himself. >> good. >> i appreciate mr. president you convening everybody. thank you, my whip counterpart. the house did pass a bill dealing with fixing problems with our background system and we combined with it a bill that advanced concealed carry r reciprocity. and those with concealed carry in one state having that same ability in another state with conceal carry laws that are on the books and before that is immediately discounted because i know -- when we passed our bill, there was -- number one s-- i dd have to whip that bill and it didn't automobilely pass and there were members that said we want to close and fix the problems with the background check system and we came
together and passed a bill but we also felt that if you look at the concealed carry population, these are people by enlarge who are helping us stop crimes. these are people who are well trained, who go out there and help prevent crimes. so i would hope that is not immediately dismissed because there is a lot of talk. just putting that on the side. >> what do you think -- you know i'm your biggest fab in the whole world. i think that maybe that bill will some day pass but it should pass as a separate. if you are going to put concealed carry between state news this bill, we're talking about a whole new ball game. and you know, i'm with you, but let it be a separate bill. you'll never get this passed -- if you add concealed carry to this, you'll never get it passed. >> [ inaudible ]. >> and you'll never get it passed. so we want to get something done. but what you are saying -- your second point. >> -- to please recognize that -- look at the data. a lot of people want to dismiss carry conceal permits and they
do increase safety. so i understand your point. i did appreciate some of the other points you brought up. you talk about mental health problems, that is at the core of so many of the mass shootings. we congress came together in a bipartisan way as part of the 21st century cures act to pass a major overhaul of the health and it didn't get much attention because -- but the bill in mental health which was a position created there that law, let's make sure the assistant secretary of mental health has their tools an tasked with finding the loopholes an how are people slipping through the cracks. and the thing that makes me most angry when you see governmental institutions, federal and local that broke down and allowed it kid to get a gun but to let him slip you through the cracks. and it wasn't just students. we think there is a shooter and he said he with be a professional school shooter and the fbi let him go.
you know this. the people that protected me and my other colleagues on that field, law enforcement did their job and i appreciate that you gave them the -- the medal of freedom. >> if you didn't have those people and you wouldn't be here and 25 other people wouldn't be here. >> and when you see the breakdown you see millions of americans that want firearms to protect themselves, but not for mass shooters but to defend themselves and that is one of the balances. so the house did take action. clearly the senate may have some issues with parts of bill, but let's at least have a broader conversation and we'll continue this. >> okay. i think that is fine. did somebody -- marsha. >> yes. mr. president, first of all, i want to say thank you for saying let's go to the source of the problem. so many times we react to symptoms. picking up on what the whip said with the new assistant secretary of mental health, this is somewhere that, yes, indeed, we
need to be looking at the tools that they have, and looking at the young adults, individuals who have crossed that 18-year-old threshold and who within their family or their care-giver has access to those mental health records and how lawmaker has the ability to get that information from children services, so many of these have records through their teenage years. they've been on a schedule. >> and we are working on that. that is part of what we're doing. >> and we need tofr -- to have that visibility. and the houses that -- wanted to fix the nics system. and another thing that came up from some of the moms, i was a room mother when my kids were in school and now as a grandmother, i'm talking to a lot of young moms. they have said one of the things that we need to do as we review these issues is look at
entertainment. and the video games, the ratings system, the movies, how things are approved and what children are being exposed to and especially children that have some of the mental health issues and they feel that has a role to play. >> i think that is a very important point. the video games and movies and noints is violent. i get to see things you would be amazed at. i have a very young son and i look at the things he's watching and -- and i say how is that possible? and this is what kids are watching. and i think you have to take a look at it. you rate movies maybe you have to also rate them for terror, for what they are doing and what they are all about. it is hard to believe that at least for a percentage or maybe it is a small percentage of children, this doesn't have a negative impact on their thought
process. these things are really violent. >> some of the young moms have mentioned this. they are very concerned that exposure and in children being desensitized to violence. so they would like that. one of my sheriffs -- sheriff eddy far is has a great idea, he's in putnam county, tennessee, as we talk about hardening the schools, we have way too many programs in school, how about protect me programs that our fop retirees would take the leeads on and go in and as they volunteer help to protect those while we work through this issue of how your local and state and federal agencies will work together. and find solutions for this, so those are things that -- my constituents are saying and would like to have raised and they want solutions and i appreciate the leadership.
>> thank you very much. i appreciate it. >> and mr. president -- you're right. could you lead on this in a way that nobody else can. because for all of the americans out there that the second amendment is so critically important to them, they believe you. that you are not going to go into their home and take their firearms. so you have a credibility that nobody else can bring to this. that is why you can lead. maybe you've heard my call. you act when you see an opportunity. >> i have. we have to. we're all -- i'm going to lead. but we're all going to lead. we'll get this done in a bipartisan manner. i'm not even worried about 60 votes. i believe that 60 votes -- 60% meaning, is -- should be so easy. it should be 100%. kristen, do you have something. >> i think you underestimate the power of the gun lobby. >> no, the reason i had lunch with the nra on sunday, and i called them and i said you have to come over. fellas, we have to do something and they do have great power. agree with that. they have great power over you people. and they have less power over
me. i don't need it. what do i need. but they are well meaning. and i said to a very -- i said fellas, we have to do something. we can't keep restricting and we can't keep -- we have to do what is right. when it comes to mental health and other issues, we have to do what is right. and i'm telling you, i think they are there. i think they are there. some of you are petrified of the n nra. you can't be petrified. they will do what is right. i believe that. i think it was a very good lunch, yes, sir. >> the perspective as law enforcement and a sheriff riding the streets of jacksonville, florida, one of the things that i learned during that 41 years and a lot of in this room can tell you as well, is secure is always a multi-layer add poach. so as we talk about the background checks, who can buy a gun, who cannot, all of those things are important. and all of those those are parts
of the security that we can create for our country. but know this. and you said it. all of that can break down and someone go into -- and a gun-free zone and just kill -- it will. >> it is defenseless. >> defenseless people. >> they are defenseless. >> so number one for security, from a law enforcement perspective, is you have to have -- the only thing and it sounds cliche because it is true, but the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. so you have to have the officers or some armed security at our schools. now, the issue is -- and we talk about those that are areas where there are no guns. the reason i carry a concealed firearm everywhere i go, is because i don't know where those
gun-free zones are. that i may be walking through it at the mall or at the donut shop or wherever i might be. so that is why i carry concealed. so that i could protect myself, i could protect my family, who might be with me and i could protect those around me who choose not to carry a firearm. >> you are not allowed concealed in a gun-free zone. >> well -- >> so what do you do? >> you can't -- you can't carry in those areas. so you are -- >> you're the only -- >> just like everybody else. so that is why -- >> they are the most dangerous places, gun-free zones. this is true. >> and so that is why we need to look at going back to the concealed carry issue of national reciprocity. >> i just don't think you will get approved. you won't get concealed carry approve. amy and diane and -- >> you are right. >> and other people, they -- people -- they are never going
to consider it but people may consider it but they will not consider it in this the bill. all it will mean. >> if though don't want to go away with gun free zones. >> i would with the military. and we have military bases with gun-free zones and we have five incredible soldiers, three of whom were championship shooters nowhere near their gun and this whack job walked in and killed all of them and they were defenseless and if they could carry -- >> and i am in a school, a gun-free zone, whether it is a restaurant, whether it is -- a grocery store. >> on military bases to start. because you know it happened there. >> all right. let me close with this, because -- [ inaudible ]. it is critical for law enforcement. we have -- we take folks who are a danger to themselves or others and baker act them, in florida it is a baker act, a crisis stabilization process and they are there for three days, 72
hours and they get out and we have to give them their guns back. i tried not to do that one time and got sued and lost the case. had to give the guns back and we got fines. so the state of florida has this bill mentioned earlier that the senate just passed with these risk protection orders built into them. and there are some states that already have that, i believe. and i think those are going to be critical for law enforcement to help take the guns out of the hands of -- >> risk protection. >> -- these individuals who we know should not be carrying and then we need to make sure that those individuals get placed into the national background check system. >> and mr. president, the vice president stated the state of indiana has done a good job. >> go ahead, mike. >> you spoke about gun violence and restraining orders, they are called, california has a version of this, and i think you -- your meeting with governors this week
individually and as a group we spoke about states taking steps. but the focus is to literally give families and give local law enforcement a a di-- additional tools if an individual is reported to be a potential danger to themselves or others. allow due process, so no one's rights are trampled but the ability to go to court and obtain an order and collect not only the firearm but any weapons in the position -- >> or might take the firearms first and then go to court. because that is another system. because a lot of times by the time you go to court it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures, i like taking the guns early. like in this crazy man's case that just took place in florida, he had a lot of -- they saw everything to. go to court would have taken a long time. could you do what you are saying, but take the guns first and goo through due process second. >> and we think about the tragedy in sandy hook.
>> that is right. >> and adam lanza's mother who spoke to law enforcement and local officials. she was concerned over and over again. and i know our colleagues from connecticut lived this and saw it. it. but to literally give families some tools, law enforcement as my state has done, other states have done to be able to take action to remove those weapons for either a set period of time or longer to make sure that person can't be a threat. >> i like that. marco? >> and just to add, obviously that is a state law provision. i know there are some people working on what we can do at the federal level to incentivize states to do tchlts states can do it now. hopefully florida will do that shortly. and it brings home this point. the vice-president alluded to it, and congressman relerford touched on it as well. there are people here who tried to do something. they called, they called the fbi, they called the sheriff's office. but legally they had no recourse to sort of get ahead of this and stop it in terms of taking away guns and placing them in a
facility or some other measure, with a court order to prevent them from being able to do this. and even if law enforcement, they would have been limited in their options as well. this is an idea states can do. there may be something we can do to incentivize it. we've been talking to your office and senator blumenthal and others. ultimately states can do that now the way multiple states have already done, hopefully florida will be. >> mr. president, in the 21st century cures bill, senator murphy and i worked on, we involved mental health community safety act. we provided additional grants to jurisdictions that use assisted outpatient treatment, sort of a variation on what the vice-president talked about. adam's mother, if he was compliant with his medications, wouldn't follow doctors orders and she needed some help, could go to court, a civil court, and get a court order that forced him to take his medication and follow his doctor's orders. many people with mental illness, if they take their medication, if they're compliant, can
function productively in society. so, there are a variety of tools and that's one that's already in law in addition to what states are doing. >> so, let me just ask this. chris and john, are you having a one-off bill or can you merge it into joe and pat's bill? because i like that much better. having a comprehensive bill, some people don't like the word comprehensive -- i like the word comprehensive. they say oh, that's a bad word because it represents things. to me i like the word comprehensive. i'd rather have a comprehensive bill. can you merge yours into this bill? or would you rather have a separate mix-mix bill? >> the most important thing you said at the outset is we act and don't go home empty-handed. >> what would really be nice to create something that's beautiful that works. and you know, the biggest thing, chris, the biggest surprise to me -- because i've only been doing this two years, right? three years now. time flies. but i've been here for a little
more than a year. what surprises me more than anything else is that nothing has been done for all these years. i really see a lot of common ground with the democrat, republican, i'm so surprised. i'm sitting here and i'm saying, you know, there's a lot of commonality here. there's a lot of people that are agreeing with pretty much everything you guys are writing and you guys are writing. i don't understand why this hasn't happened for the last 20 years nothing's happened. so we're going to get it done. >> i think we can add anything to fix knicks that adds 60 votes. it can be added if it has your support. mr. president, i just add i hope we follow the data here because the data -- we talked a lot about safe schools, mental illness. the data says america has a gun violence rate than any other industrialized country in the world. we don't have a higher mal-illness rate. we don't spend less money on law enforcement. what's different is we have the
loose est lax gun rates. not that it's going to solve the violence epidemic. the data tells us the one thing that is different about the united states is our unbelievably loose gun laws and i hope we follow it. >> and background checks. >> i think they work together. i like together better. but, joe, you have to fix mental illness. if somebody is mentally ill right now, they can go out and they can buy. you can't take it away. it's ridiculous. you have to fix it and i'm sure you're going to fix it. i like the merger because i think the merger works out better. chuck, were you going to say one thing? >> you're showing leadership through this meeting. following on what marcia said about the incivility of our society and the culture of our society, the thought came to my mind that maybe you could show leadership about all the violence we have in hollywood and all these videos. if you watch fox news like i do, and every night you see all these films about everybody
being blown up. just think of the impact that makes on young people and get them in here and preach to them like you're preaching to us. >> but actually fox news is a very good job -- >> you're right. one channel. >> it's very violent. but the movies are violent and the videos are violent beyond anything anybody's ever seen before. >> you had a governor telling you this week the same thing, the culture of our society has got to change if you're going to stop this. >> i agree. elizabeth? >> thank you very much, mr. president, mr. vice-president. i've been wearing a bracelet like this for more than five years. i was elected the same time. and i was sitting with new member training when i got called about a school shooting, what turned out to be 20 six and seven year olds and teachers in new town. there isn't a day chris and i don't think about it. that's been our nightmare for the people we represent. it's now ted's nightmare and now your nightmare. >> why didn't they do something
about it when that happened? you look at columbine, you look at solve of these horrible events. why didn't they do something about it? why didn't this group of people plus others and some have gone and some are going to be here? >> well, i think people tried. but i think your point is this. we're at a tipping point. we're at a tipping point. why we are, i don't know. but i think -- >> you know why? >> i think -- >> elizabeth you know why we are? a week will go by, another week, another week, and all of a sudden people will be up to other things. we can't let that happen. >> we have the power to change that. >> you know that is what's happened. >> we can do two things. the manchin toomey which is in the house, 200 co-sponsors, you only need 218 to pass. >> i think congress is going to be fine. i really do. if we can come up with something that's very strong, very heavy with mental illness, very
heavy -- the background checks are so important, people are afraid to do background checks because you're afraid of somebody. and you know what? you're going to be more popular if you -- if you have a strong, good -- i don't care who is endorsing you or not endorsing. you're going to be more popular if that's what you're into. i'm not into popularity. i'm into getting something done that's good. i don't want to get it done. let's get something good done. let's do it properly. john, real fast. >> let me talk about how to get guns -- keep guns out of the hands of good folks -- bad folks. one of the issues is the gun show loop hole that everyone talks about. it's also guns that are stolen out of cars, good gun owners are not storing properly. stolen guns kill more people than guns that are bought legally. one way to prevent that is through a background check at the point of sale of every gun, ffl dealers, they do it.
but i can buy a gun off the street from an individual that i've never met before and nobody does a background check. here's what you do. you require a purchaser's permit at the point of sale of every gun in this country. at the point of sale you have to have a buyer's permit. and the way you get your buyer's permit is if i want to buy a gun from senator rubio, i go to an ffl dealer. i have my background check run. i get my buyer's permit. i take it to him. he sells me his gun after i show him his permit. >> the nra would love that. >> if i don't have my permit -- if i don't have my permit, it's a giagainst the law for him to sell it to me, it's against the law for me to buy it. now, everybody is thinking, heck, nobody is going to do that. who is going know? then law enforcement has the opportunity to go into the streets and buy and sell guns from people who are in there buying, selling guns right now and we can make arrests, get
those guys off the street who are selling guns illegally -- well, they're not illegal sales, but they're selling them to guys that probably are illegal -- >> you have a real black marked. they don't worry about anything. they don't worry about -- >> that's right. >> anything that you said. they sell a gun and the buyer doesn't care and the seller, and that's one of the problems we all are going to have. and you have that problem with drugs. you make the drugs illegal and they come -- you've never had a problem. we're fighting it hard. but you've never had a problem like this. so, you have the same problem with guns. you'll have a lot of great people go out and register, do all sorts of things. but you have a black market who never even think about registering. they're not going to be looking at joe and pat's bill. they couldn't care less about it. and we have to be very strong on that. i think you can have provisions on that, too, big, big penalties, strong penalties. john, you have to finish up. >> i was going to say the purchaser's permit allows law
enforcement to then go into that black market and buy and sell guns and make arrests of the folks who are in there doing it illegally. >> that would be very tough on the black market. >> exactly. >> thank you. >> i represent central florida and whether e were deeply affec pulse. the people want to see their elected leaders working together to do something. so i'm heartened -- >> this didn't happen after pulse. how bad was pulse and nothing happened? >> thank you for bringing us all together. i heard ideas, i hadn't heard that one yet. i have a bipartisan bill to remove the sticky amendment which prevented the last couple of decades the cdc and other federal agencies from researching gun violence. and i think that your secretary of hhs has said he thinks we should be able to research gun