tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 12, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
democratic primary of 1968 showed us is the power of a few people, especially young people to change history. it was those young people walking door to door in the snows of new hampshire that will forever prove that when it comes to what really matters, every vote matters. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. . tonight on "all in" -- >> some of you people are petrify to have had nra. >> donald trump fully surrenders to the nra. >> i'm asking why he chickened out. >> tonight i'll speak with the democrat who sat in that meeting. and governor john kasich on trump's bait and switch. >> the nra happens to be very good people, by the way. then, as the president reportedly interviews an impeachment attorney -- >> it's a democrat hoax. >> reporter: house republicans announce they are ending their investigation into trump and russia. plus -- >> maxine waters, a very low iq individual. >> congresswoman maxine waters
is here to respond to the president and to the defenders of racism. >> let them call you racist. wear it as a badge of honor. and betsy devos goes to school. >> i have not -- i have not -- i have not intentionally visited schools that are underperforming. >> maybe you should. >> maybe i should, yes. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the president's abject surrender to the nra now appears to be complete. it was of course just a few short weeks ago that in the wake of the massacre at marjory stoneman douglas high school, the president promised survivors and families of victims that he would take action to prevent further shootings. specifically citing the move to raid the minimum wage for gun purchases from 18 to 21. >> in addition to everything else, in addition to what we're going to do about background checks, we're going to go very strong into age, age of purchase.
>> among all the gun safety measures to gain momentum since the parkland shooting, the push to raise the age limit is at the top of the list. walmart, the world's biggest retailer decided on its own to raise the age to 21. so did the state of florida where the massacre took place, passing the new age restriction over the strenuous objections of the nra, which promptly sued the state after they signed into it law. a couple weeks ago, the president, perhaps sensing a political opportunity, brought a bunch of news cameras into the white house where in the latest episode of "the apprentice: 1600 pennsylvania avenue" he performed a role standing up to the gun lobby. >> it doesn't make sense i wait to 21 to get a weapon at 21 but i can get this weapon at age 18. i'm curious to what you did in your bill. >> we didn't address it, mr. president. >> you know why? you're afraid of the nra. and they do have great power. i agree with it. they have great power over you people. they have less power over me.
what do i need? but they are well meaning. i said fellows, we've got to do something. some of you people are petrify to have had nra. you can't be petrified. >> anyone who has observed this presidency knew right away how little those words meant. about as much as his pledge, for instance, to sign an immigration deal at a very similar meeting a month earlier. >> when this group comes back, hopefully with an agreement, this group and others, from the senate, from the house comes back with an agreement, i'm signing it. i mean, he will be signing it. i'm not going to say, oh, gee, i want this or i want that. i'm going to be signing it. >> after that, the president went on to reject three bipartisan deals one day after his public gun safety meeting at the white house, the president held a private meeting in the oval office, no cameras with a single special guest that would be kris cox, the nra's top lobbyist. tweeting afterwards i had a great feeting tonight with the president, v-potus. now ahead of a national school
walkout this week, the march for our lyes on the 24th, the white house has finally unveiled a set of proposals responding to the parkland massacre. and, surprise, surprise, it looks an awful lot like something the nra could have released. supporting a bipartisan bill to strengthen background checks without closing the existing loop holes, calling for new measures to quote, unquote harden schools like training teachers to carry firearms. but raising the age for gun sales which the president had gone out of his way to endorse that is one of several items relegated for further study. yada, yada, yada. today the president claimed he and he alone was the only official who could possibly stand up to the nra left it up to his press secretary to explain why he caved. >> based on the plan last night, it seems like president trump was the one petrify to have had nra because he backed away from some of the ideas he had brought into the discussion. and i'm asking why he chickened out. why he didn't go forward with what he had proposed earlier.
>> look, he hasn't backed away from these things at all. as i just said, they're still outlined in the plan. but he can't make them happen with a brought stroke of the pen. >> he could have put out a proposal for legislation. he could have advocated for universal background checks. he could have called for raising the ages in the states. instead he has tabled that. >> he hasn't, actually. it's actually listed still in his policy proposal that you'll see. >> defending his gun proposal on twit their morning, the president, as he so often does, accidentally revealed what really motives his efforts on this issue, not taking a noble stand against gun violence, but politics. on 18 to 21 age limit, watching court cases and rulings before acting, states are making this decision. things are moving rapidly on this, but not much political support. i'm joined by governor john kasich of ohio. you have been a critic of this president in many respects. what is your reaction on this arc on guns? >> chris, i think if we go back just two or three months ago, we wouldn't see any of this.
so what is he doing that i think is good? because i formed a group after the las vegas deal. maybe it was even before that. gun owner, strong second amendment, no give. those who felt okay, i support the second amendment, but there is a lot of room for change. and they came up with a list of things. because i want my legislature to pass something. how does he help me? i think he wants to pass the nic system. i think he wants to improve the background check. i'm for the no loophole. let me give you another thing. >> nics is a technical change to the reporting system. >> i have counties, i have communities where somebody breaks the law, they're a violent felon, they don't report. >> right. >> so when somebody gets checked whether they buy a gun, the information is not there. >> to be clear for folks that are not immersed in this policy issue, nics is distinct from the gun show loophole. >> casual sales. i think all things should be checked. >> you do? >> of course i do. but i got to get something through.
so i'm looking for the ground on which i can pass some things. now if i can get nics done, and there is thing they're doing that you didn't mention. and that's the gun violence restraining order. if you go to court and somebody proves a danger to themselves or somebody else, law enforcement can take the guns. that's a big deal. look, i'm just talking to you, not politics, i'm talk to you about what can matter. 18 to 21? i'm for 18 to 21. it's not in my proposal to the legislature. i couldn't get the group to agree. but we may get there. >> so there is a -- we can make a menu of policy issues. >> bump stocks. there is another one. apparently they're going to ban bump stocks. i'm told the justice department. >> it's unclear whether the justice department has unilateral authority to do that. >> which they don't. i believe in ohio they bab them. they did in florida. >> so wait. let me ask you something. there is a policy question here. what are the things we can do and i'm hearing a bunch of
ideas. and then there is the politics. you're someone who has -- you're talking about raising the age you. say you would skorp that. but you've been someone who has ban governor of ohio you. had an a-rating of the nra. you signed a bunch of laws expanding gun ownership. concealed carry in places that serve alcohol, silencers and expanded access to those have. you had a change of heart? negative, no. in 1994 i voted for assault weapons ban. >> i know. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. i voted for a assault weapons ban. >> they didn't like you. >> oh that. >> didn't like you at all. >> they gave you an f. >> when i ran for governor they opposed me each and every way. that was fine. i beat them. they gave me an f in everything else. >> wait a second. continue the story. you managed to get your way into an a with them. >> look, i'm not against all guns. i don't want to take people's guns. i'm giving you an honest account of it. concealed carry, concealed carry is not what has led to this kind of problem. i mean, you have got to get
trained in everything. i look at any of the legislation that comes. for example, they there is talk about sending these stand your ground. you know what i told them? i'll veto it. i don't want to mess with that now. i look at everything that comes. i thought the assault weapons ban in '94 was good. the problem is it wasn't effective. i'm trying to bring both sides together. that gives me the best chance of passing something. and i can tell you all the things i'd like to do. >> but let me make the argument on the other side. >> sure. >> which is the then diagram of pass something that can get support, which is extremely narrow, it's in here, right? is a function of the political power of a very specific lobbying group that has a very specific conception of the second amendment and are very powerful. isn't that true? >> it's not so simple, chris. the power is not so much in the organization in washington. >> no. knits the people they organize. >> its people they organize that live in the districts. i just saw a guy today. he is very concerned about this. now, if we can eliminate bump
stocks, if we can take guns from people who have either mental illness, or they're in a mental turmoil that could cause danger to themselves or somebody else, if we can fix the nics system, if we the k do those things, that's great gains for us. now, are there other things to do, absolutely there are other things to do. i don't know if congress will do any of that. i'm hoping we can get this through the legislature. and if we don't, guess what? they'll hear from me about this. >> we saw what happened in florida and keep our eyes what happens. it's great when you come by in new york. you have an open invitation any tile. >> good to be with you. thank you. after the president held the meeting at the white house where he called for broad new gun control measures, i talked to one of the lawmakers who was there that would be elizabeth esty. she is a democrat. newtown is in her district. she tells me she was optimistic what she heard from the president in that meeting. respectfully, congresswoman, this really feels like lucy and the football. to an outside observer, i have
watched him say a million things, and it's opposite one hundred times. i just wonder when you're in that meeting, there any -- is there any sense that anything he says there is going to be an actual accountable promise that's going have any legislative effect? >> well, there are really two choices. it has a legislative effect or it's going to have an electoral effect. we're going to hold him to account, you know. he made a lot of promises today. he said he was going to stand up to the nra. he said he was going to support comprehensive background checks. he said he would support bill likes mine to deal with extreme risk, to take guns out of the hands of people who are desperately in need of being separated from their guns because they night hurt themselves or somebody else. he said he would support cdc funding. a bunch of stuff we've been fighting for. now obviously the proof is going to be in the pudding. but if he doesn't, if he doesn't, you've got a bunch of students in parkland and across america who are looking. >> all right. congresswoman elizabeth esty joins me right here in studio.
so that was on the day of the meeting today, you heard the package. your reaction. >> not terribly surprised. and angry. i mean, the students in parkland were angry and the president responded to that. but this is what we come to expect, sadly. big talk, no action. >> interesting. one of the arguments, governor kasich here made an argument that to me is very similar which is well, we're going get something. we'll find a place of consensus between the people on this part of the issue and wherever we find a consensus, we'll pass that, and isn't that good? and isn't that progress? >> sure there are things that would be good. glue is a lot that needs to be done. and there are things that save lives there are thanings that a being done in my state of connecticut. in places like california, they're actually saving lives. 97% of americans want to have background checks on every sale. the president can't even support that that is the most basic number one thing law enforcement is asking for. >> that was in manchin toomey,
isn't it? >> he is not supporting manchin toomey. >> the irony is he sat there at the table while he berated manchin and toomey for essentially being in the pocket of the nra, but he is not supporting their legislation that even rise to that level. >> exactly there was a lot of bold talk. and you're right. we've seen total retreat, total retreat. >> okay. i want to ask you a broader question about this. i guess the question is i watched that meeting, and i thought to myself, none of this means anything. i've wamped this happen four times. are you going to do another one of these meetings? what does the president's word count for? what does it mean? >> i think there are two things. on guns, i'll tell you where i'm going go, because i represent newtown. if there is even a tiny chance. >> you still feel that way? >> if is there a tiny chance that he flip-flops back into doing something, i've got to fight for the people i represent. and for the people in america who have been waiting five years for something to happen. i've got to keep fighting on
that. the other thing is we have to hold politicians to account. and none more so than this president. and when he makes those promises, that is a stack of promises made and failure to deliver. and that's, again, we changed the laws or we got to change congress. and it starts this year. and actually it starts tomorrow with this election in pennsylvania. >> do you think the nra -- has been weakened over the last several weeks, despite the force they were able to exert on the white house? >> i do. i think they've lost -- they've lost real moral ground on this. because i've had nra members come and talk to me when i've been home. and they've said, listen, life-long republican. i'm a gunowner. i do not understand why we have assault weapons out on the streets. and that has changed. these are people from my district, sixth generation hunters and farmers. and they've had it. they've reached that tipping point. they've got kids in college or kids in high school. and they just think the policies run off the rails.
congress needs to do something. and so does the president. >> all right. congressman elizabeth esty. it's great to have you. >> thank you so much. appreciate it. ahead, house republicans end investigations into trump as the mueller investigation gross. we'll tell you why and what's ahead next. and president trump use as campaign stage to call congresswoman maxine waters a, quote, low iq individual. congresswoman maxine waters is here to rerespond and she is here in two minutes. poor mouth breather.
ahead of tomorrow's special election in pennsylvania, the president flew there to the district over the weekend to whip up support for republican congressional candidate rick saccone. the president also used his rambling 73-minute speech to attack the media, to praise countries that execute drug dealers, and to go after one of his most vocal critics in congress, democrat maxine waters. >> we have to defeat nancy pelosi.
and maxine waters, a very low iq individual. you ever see her? have you ever seen her? we will impeach him! we will impeach the president. but he hasn't done anything wrong. it doesn't matter. we will impeach him. she is a low iq individual. you can't help it. >> joining me now is congresswoman maxine waters, democrat from california. congresswoman, the president has said this twice about you in the past week. i wanted to give you an opportunity to respond. >> well, you know, there is no response. everybody knows who this bully is. this president has attacked more women, more individuals, name-calling, i mean, look at this. not only has he talked about senator warren, called her pocahant pocahantas, he called hillary crooked. he is calling me low iq. he called rubio little.
this is what we expect of him. i just wonder what took him so long. and so since we know who he is, and the fact that he is, you know, calling people names constantly, and talking about the media in the way that he does and calling people sobs,ett cete cetera, et cetera, i'm not surprised at all. all i know is this. if he thinks he can stop me from talking about impeach 45, he's got another thought coming. i am not intimidated by him. i'm going keep saying that we need to impeach him. and i am so depending on our special counsel, robert mueller, to connect the dots so that he can prove the collusion. and we've seen the justice playing out before our very eyes. the this is a dishonorable human being. he is a con man. he came to this job as a con man. i call him don the con man.
so that's who he is. that's what we expect. and i'm not surprised at all. >> it's interesting to listen to your reaction to this. it almost sounds like you and other folks who work in washington don't even -- it doesn't even land anymore when he does this kind of thing because it has become so wrote. >> that's absolutely fair. we expect to wake up every morning to him calling somebody else another name or telling another lie. he has no credibility. so, no we're not surprised about him, you know, calling names and talking about my iq. he might say or do anything. it's expected. >> you just mentioned robert mueller. i know you believe there probably was collusion. there were crimes committed. that's a contention you've made. you think obstruction has played out before our eyes. today the house republicans on the intelligence committee announced very abruptly without consulting democrats, they're
wrapping up their investigation. it's done and its over, and they found no collusion. do you take that at face value? >> well, first of all, they had no real investigation. and who would believe nunes was working in a credible way to find out what took place? as a matter of fact, he was simply a messenger boy for the president, running up in the middle of the night, trying to prove that obama, for example, had wiretapped the president. and so they can conclude whatever they want to. they weren't doing anything to begin with. it was not a credible investigation. and so we're not paying any attention to that at all. >> the president's former right-hand man and senior adviser steve bannon went to france. he has been touring around europe. and he gave an address to the national front party there that is a very hard right anti-immigrant some say proto fascist party. and he said this to that group. i wanted to get your reaction. i thought it was an interesting thing. this is what he said to them. listen. >> lest let them call you racist.
let them call you xenophobes. let them call you nativists. wear it as a badge of honor. because every day we get stronger and they get weaker. >> wear the term racist as a badge of honor. what do you think of that? >> well, you know, he has always said that. when he was at breitbart, he said look, if race is an issue, we win every time. he has made it now known that he wants race to be the issue. he wants us constantly talking about how racist they are. and constantly he is organizing people, saying that, you know, we're accusing them unfairly, et cetera. we're playing the race card. this is his game, and this is what he does. and we have to stay on some of these issues and stop following some of this stuff that he is doing and that the president is doing. they like diverting us and diverting the attention from the real issue.
i'm sitting here as the ranking member of the financial services committee, trying to hold on to the reforms that we have made with dodd/frank. that financial consumer protection bureau that mr. mulvaney is now over there trying to dismantle is extremely important. we're working on issues trying to deal with the big banks and to implement the dodd/frank reforms that we have been involved in, to make sure that we never have another crisis like we've had where the big banks basically took advantage of so many of our citizens with these exotic loans and with these loans that resetting in a short period of time. we had foreclosures all over this country that we had to learn how to do modifications for and keep people in their homes. we need to be talking about these issues. we need to be talking about the sanctions. and why there is no implementation of the sanctions. why it is that teller son had $120 million. didn't spend a dime of it to
find out about what happ had happened with hacking into our dnc. why it is munnuchin is supposedo help implement the sanctions is excusing himself and talking about oh, that's something the state department was supposed to do. this president in my estimation has a deal with putin where he agreed to lift the sanctions, where he agreed that there would be no more sanctions in exchange for that, i think, i believe no matter what anybody else says, that that is what was worked out between the two of them, that putin helped him because president in the way that he has done all of the trolling and all of that that he has done. so i'm not surprised about anything that he does. and it's time to talk about the issues. he can call me all the names that he want. it doesn't make any difference. i want to tell you, he is exactly who we know him to be. he is don the con man. that's who he is. he is a con artist. >> congresswoman maxine waters, thank you for making the time.
tonight the republican-led house intelligence committee said they are done with the russia investigation, claim thanksgiving have found no evidence of collusion, coordination or conspiracy between the trump campaign and the russians nor putin expressed preference for p president trump, even though the intelligence committee said they unanimously did. special counsel robert mueller shows no signs of slowing down. the "new york times" now reporting the president is considering adding a new lawyer with a very specific background
to his team, representing president bill clinton during his impeachment trial. julian ainsley has written about the investigation. joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama who just joined msnbc news and msnbc as a contributor. and matt miller is a former spokesman for president obama's department of justice. and matt, he will begin with you. it seems the house intel committee that the republicans are giving the president what he wants. he wants some document somewhere that he can say look, no collusion. he has been saying it ahead of any documentary evidence of that. but it now appears they are going to give him twhachlt do you make of it? >> yeah, not just no collusion. but the russians weren't even trying to elect him. i suppose in one sense we could congratulate devin nunes because it has been clear for a year now that he was going to go out of his what i to turn this committee really into an arm of the white house or an arm of the president's legal team. but even when you recalibrate your expectations and you know that's what his goal, he still manages to exceed expectations.
and go kind of above and beyond. and this report really, it's a farce in so many ways. it's a farce in its conclusions about what happened, given that they allowed witnesses to come in and refuse to answer questions with no follow-up, no subpoenas, no attempt to hold anyone in contempt. and it's a farce in claiming putin wasn't trying to elect trump. not just because the intelligence community has concluded otherwise, but grand jury of 23 average americans pamping in the mueller investigation returned an indictment that said explicitly the russians were trying to elect donald trump. they're ignoring that evidence completely. they are giving you -- that is basically the line that we heard from vladimir putin the other day. it's not the russian government. these may be other individuals. he even use kind of a slur to describe who those individuals might be. >> julia, one of the issues here, one of the people they talked to is one small example of the house intel committee's inquiry is one of the people they talked to harry prince told them about the meeting he had in
the seychelles and appears to have omitted crucial details of the nature of that meeting where robert mueller appears to have access to which kind of crystallizes the gap between what's happening on the mueller side and what's happening in the intelligence committee. >> right, chris. he said he went to the seychelles and could have ran into someone who could set up this person who we now believe could have been a setup to be a back channel between the trump administration and the russian government through an emirati conduit. that now seems to be coming to a head in the mueller investigation. he is a looking into it. it appears to be a lie by erik prince. but the house committee did not find it necessary to go back and interview him. in fact, as matt pointed out, they spent a lot of their time on the politics of this. we know the nunes memo came out of this committee. that of course was to undermine the basis of the mueller investigation anyway, trying to say that it all depended on a
dossier that they could discount. but in fact they're kind of omitting a lot of really key information that could have led to the fisa warrants that were used in the mueller investigation. so they've really been used for a long time when nunes was heading it, and then when conaway was heading it to try to push back against what the mueller investigation was finding. any news was coming out of the senate intel sort of seen as a counter weight. but before we dismiss it completely, it would have to be house republicans while they still have the majority who would have any kind of an impeachment trial on this president. >> of course. >> if it came to that. while it's easy to just dismiss it and say they didn't do their due diligence, if this is the conclusion of the body, it shows us where they stand on this, and that they don't think it's a political calculation they want to take to really look into this issue. >> that i think is true. one of the people, todd rooney who is on that committee, doesn't appear to be on board with the conclusions of the committee as far as their being reported. i want to play his interview in
which he disputes the contention that the russians were not trying to elect donald trump, which is one of the key findings apparently of the committee. take a listen to tom rooney. >> certainly we've seen a lot of evidence and propaganda over the last year that shows that the russians were trying to damage hillary clinton. >> so you think they were trying to do more, but they were trying to hurt hillary and eventually help donald trump? >> absolutely. >> joyce, that does seem like one of the sort of factual findings that we're all on board with, with the exception apparently of this house intelligence committee. >> you know, you can argue about what the facts mean. but when you're arguing about what the facts are and the facts are relatively clearly established, that should give all of us concerns about not just the substantive conclusion that this house committee reached, but also about the process that it used, a process that you've already described as being deficient in terms of follow-up in the witnesses it interviewed. and the problem that we have is this will be presented to many
people, many of our fellow citizens as a credible process. and it simply wasn't. >> and we should also note there is huge omissions. manafort, the person who is facing a raft of charges and probably is the most inextricably bound to pro-kremlin interests was never interviewed nor was papadopoulos, a number of those people. matt, i want to read you the schiff statement there is a question about how the democrats on the committee deal with this now. adam schiff saying this. by ending its oversight role in the only thoshzed investigation in the house, the majority has placed the interests of protecting the country and will judge its actions harshly. what do you think the democrats on the committee do next? >> i think they have to take their case to the american public. look that. >> don't have any control of the committee. they can't call witnesses and themselves. they can write a response to this report. but they have to take their case to public and point out what a flawed investigation this is. but then, their work is not done. because the committee, just because it stopped this investigation, i don't think we should conclude that they're done messing around in this
space. nunes has made it very clear he is off looking at the state department now. going to try to find some way to show that allies of clinton were somehow colluding with the russian there's. another claim we didn't touch on that this claim makes is it was the clinton campaign with the russians to elect, i don't know, elect donald trump i guess. they're not done. if this committee keeps kind of running interference for the president and his legal team, which i think they are, adam schiff and the democrats on this committee are going to have to keep pointing out when the facts don't add up. >> and julia, the mueller investigation really doesn't look like it's wrapping up right now. you've been reporting about this expansion and the expansion into the seychelles meeting. they do not seem like they've basically figured it all out and they're done. >> that's right. i'm going back to the conversations we're having at the end of 2017, chris. we're talking about what we were hearing out of the white house from donald trump's lawyers like ty cobb who were saying it's just a matter of time before the president either goes before
robert mueller or tries to answer written questions, that's what they wanted. and that will be the end. they start to wrap it up. they really keep telling the president just a few more weeks and we'll have an answer. and even if we see other trials, they'll go ahead and say the president is free of my wrongdoing. yet here we are in mid-march, and the probe seems to be getting bigger. we know mueller is looking at the seychelles meeting and a new report from bloomberg today says the obstruction case could be on hold because mueller thinks it's so important to get cooperation from other witnesses that he wouldn't want to pull back on any of that cooperation by moving too quickly with obstruction. which means there is more that he wants to get from people who are part of that obstruction case and that there is really a strategy here. and it's a strategy in a case that didn't looesn't look like coming to an end any time soon. and it's even widening to include foreign business dealings of jared kushner outside of russia. >> joyce, is that your interpretation of that bloomberg piece which caught my eye as
well, that millrobert mueller i ho holding back? thinking has been a prosecution teams that been very, very locked down. >> it's a great point. >> we haven't had any leaks. i'd like to know why they believe that's mueller strategy. but here is my take on it, chris. as a prosecutor, if i was going to charge obstruction at the top of the conspiracy, i would want to wait until the end when i was filing substantive charges when i knew what all of the criminal conduct looked like. >> right. >> and only at that point would i want to charge obstruction. i think that this reporting makes sense. >> it's a great point. thank you all for your time. still to come, an interview so disastrous that they were watching in horror, apparently, inside the white house. the uproar over the betsy devos meltdown. we will play you a big chunk of that ahead. and donald trump jr.'s golden ticket to the chocolate factory is tonight's thing 1, thing 2 next.
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thing 1 tonight. a spectacle in pennsylvania as republicans try to have it both ways in the special election there. they are desperate to downplay expectations. today the pennsylvania gop chairman called the district there a democrat district. it's a democratic district technically. even though romney won it by 17 points and trump by a whopping 20. but the congressional race is becoming such a symbolic prize that millions of dollars are being spent, even though the district will be redrawn by the midterm elections eight months from now. president trump rallied there. and now on the eve of the election, they sent in the closer, donald trump jr., hair net and all, who brought his own special campaigning touch and lots of sugar. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. it's good! it's refreshing. ♪
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but donald trump campaigned taking a tour in a candy factory, hair nets required and spawning memes such if it's what you say, i love it. maybe later in the spring. don jr. holds an impromptu news conference along with rick saccone and a big bowl of ice cream. >> i had a coal miner rally in green county yesterday. production is way up. i don't know where you're getting that. and that's the forecast i have. >> ahead of that trump tower meeting were you aware they had information the e-mails? >> i was not. >> mr. saccone, can i ask you, what is your message to the coal miners? >> i've always been a defend other telephone coal industry. >> should stormy -- mr. trump shore, stormy daniels be able to speak? >> thanks, guys. that's all we're talking about. >> talking about coal miners and ice cream. perhaps don jr. forgot the advice from candidate trump dad after john kasich chowed down in front of the press.
>> did you see him? he has a news conference all the time when he is eating. i have never seen a human being eat in such a disgusting fashion. and i always with my kids, all of them, i would say children, small, little bites. you can save time, worry, hassle, and yup, money. in fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved hundreds. that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call.
controversial education secretary betsy devos got her turn in the spotlight on "60 minutes" last night, and it was -- well, take a look. >> why take money away from that school that's not working to bring them up to a level where they are -- that school is working? >> well, we should be funding and investing in students, not in school buildings, not in institutions, not in systems -- >> what about the kids who are back at the school that's not working? what about those kids? >> well, in places where there is a lot of choice that's been introduced, florida, for
example, the studies show that when there is a large number of students that opt to go to a different school or different schools, the traditional public schools actually, the results get better as well. >> now, has that happened in michigan? we're in michigan is your home state. >> there are lots of great options. >> have the public schools in michigan gotten better? >> i don't know overall. i can't say overall that they have all gotten better. >> the whole state is not doing well. >> well, there are certainly lots of pockets where the students are doing well -- >> no, but your argument is if you take funds away, that the schools will get better is not working in michigan. where you had a huge impact and influence over the direction of the school system here. >> i hesitate to talk about all schools in general, because schools are made up of individuals aand thing them. >> the public schools here are
doing worse than they did. >> michigan schools need to do better there is no doubt about it. >> have you seen the really bad schools, maybe try to figure out what they're doing? >> have i not. i have not. i have not intentionally visited schools that are underperforming. >> maybe you should. >> maybe i should. yes. >> maybe. more from that disastrous interview and the ongoing struggles of trump's so-called best people, right after this break. regularly with our ameriprise advisor. we plan for everything from retirement to college savings. giving us the ability to add on for an important member of our family. welcome home mom. with the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. fthere's flonase sensimist.f up around pets. it relieves all your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't.
but how to set up a limited liability company... what's that mean? not so much. so he turned to his friends at legalzoom. yup! they hooked me up. we helped with his llc, contracts, and some other stuff that's part of running a business. so frank can focus on the beat. you hear that? this is frank's record shop. and this is where life meets legal. there are seven continents, seven seas but at celebrity cruises we'd argue more than seven wonders. for a limited time enjoy two free perks like complimentary wi-fi and drinks. plus savings for everyone in your stateroom when you book now during the celebrity cruises sail beyond event. with pg&e in the sierras. and i'm an arborist since the onset of the drought, more than 129 million trees have died in california. pg&e prunes and removes over a million trees
every year to ensure that hazardous trees can't impact power lines. and since the onset of the drought we've doubled our efforts. i grew up in the forests out in this area and honestly it's heartbreaking to see all these trees dying. what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. we have invested billions and billions and billions of dollars from the federal level, and we have seen zero results. >> but that really isn't true. test scores have gone up over the last 25 years. so why do you keep saying nothing has been accomplished? >> here to talk about the catastrophic performance of bet s -- betsey devoss and president of the american federation of teachers who has strong views about devoss and senior edit of
kwlt busine "business insider." okay. the aft was cracking up, breaking out the champagne during that performance, i'm sure. you guys are not big fans of betsey devoss. aside from her approach to education, the basic level of preparation is low. did that surprise you? >> not after the last year. i mean, it surprised me at her confirmation hearing. >> which was a fairly similar show. >> which here you have a year. she's gone to 18 public schools, three of which swhenlt to with -- she went to with me in ohio. >> 18 all year. >> 18 all year, three of which one day. we made her work hard that day. >> that doesn't seem like a lot. >> no. it's not a lot. and frankly, you know, i think she spends more time with frank
than she spends thinking about what happens with school kids, the guy who is giving her messages. >> the republican messaging g u guru. >> she is the most anti publishing education person whoever had this job and doesn't want to walk the walk in any way whatsoever. she liked the president, really engages in the photo op and in the optics and they know nothing after that. i mean, frankly, what's dangerous is the insanity of the arming teacher idea. that is dangerous. >> right. >> the fact that she pretended she didn't know anything about michigan. she actually was the architect of taking a billion dollars out of michigan schools for charters. charters do terrible and that sunk the rest of the michigan school system. the architect of it. >> the doe today tweets a chart today as a reputation in "60
minutes" to show the reading scores in mitch declichigan dec. you linked a bunch of people in the cabinet because we've seen similar performances, not just a betsey devoss issue. >> people in the white house are upset and cnn had a couple days the white house counsel's office arranged meetings with ethics scandals. scott pruit flying first class all over the place and at veterans affairs that accepted wimbledon tickets and gave them a list of admonishments, just because it's legal doesn't mean you should do it and your reputation is your responsibility. this is coming from the trump people. two things you're seeing in the cabinet, one is complete disregard for ethics rules and also, just being willing to be a
government official who knows nothing about the thing you're overseeing. these are both things donald trump would do. >> it's a great point. flows from the top. you watch him in the meetings about gun policy or immigration. it's evident. >> he knows nothing and he's not interested in anything and we saw this during judicial confirmations where these are people willing to take jobs they know nothing about. gifted hands, dr. ben core soar. you lived in an apartment and now you're in charge of hud. >> in a year, this is true of betsey devoss. there is no reason dr. carson knows but a year you would think -- >> the thing is, i don't think the aft was popping champagne. they care about teachers and students. >> pretty worried about it. >> that interview made many people cringe. it reminded me of katie couric and sarah palin where you have
someone that's not just ignore rant about what they don't know and the fact she's in charge of not just the dollars but the children of this country and she doesn't get it. >> think about what she did. she didn't care about the assaults on college kids. >> nope. >> she didn't care about what's going on in predatory lenders for college students. she doesn't show up at one low performing school to try to help solve things. she cuts school safety and mental health programs two days before parkland. my point is, it's dangerous because it's not just willful defiance. we actually need government to work for kids. >> the private sector to make more money. >> the remarkable thing to me is
the education secretary has a lot of power over higher ed accreditation that affects how colleges and universities work. on k-12 the federal government doesn't have much power. you have to do it through an influence campaign. >> or race the top which was designed to use the federal government's leverage to get changes at the local level. >> if you want someone to do that, you would want a more convincing voice. maybe somebody that came out of a state where carters worked bert than michigan. there is all sorts of people that would be better for serving those conservative ends here where it's an embarrassing spectacle but when we look back on her legacy -- >> she doesn't care. it's sending a message that we don't care about kids. >> there is an argument to care and not change the agency and
transforming the epa with competence. >> on the one hand, she's completely grossly incompetent but we also have to remember ag. the kids that will be punished is our black and latino students at the under performing schools where her solution is let me actually take money from the schools and they will do better. this is the first time we're moving toward the majority of black and latino students in other schools because many choose carters across the country and keep the racial lines on this administration. she's no different than the president. >> there is one other aspect i've been around if you're in any circle where donor, rich people have a lot of influence in power, this is bipartisan. there are lots of people across the spectrum with lots of money people will say that's a great idea and they run into the fact
that not all are great and there are lots of people in the administration from kushner to devoss who have been told yes, your ideas are great for a long time and have to deal with reality. thank you-all for being with me. that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts now. >> thanks, my friend. happy monday. don't think of it as an extra hour lost of sleep, think about it as an extra hour of daylight at the end of the day. this is a new book from investigative reporters. that book comes out tomorrow morning. mike and david are here tonight in person for the first interview they are doing about this book. that means not only do you get to see michael and david, that means this show tonight is the first opportunity we have to break some of the news that is in this book. so that is coming