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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  March 15, 2018 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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just take the day off. also saturday september 15 is national cleanup day, but who wants to clean up on a weekend. so let's do it on a friday, if you're messy, take monday as well. so is washington working for you? not tomorrow, or the day after, or if it's too inconvenient to celebrate a day in washington, just change the day. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now and there's nobody that loves separating st. patrick's day two days early is ari melber. >> thanks, chuck todd, i'm here live in washington on a very big day. this bombshell has been drop and it's sending shockwaves from the white house all the way to donald trump tower. bob mueller is demanding legally that the president's company, the trump organization turn over information related to russia. they want all documents related to russia and other topics
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mueller is investigating. why does that matter? well, you probably know this as you're watching the news. this is the very first time bob mueller has demanded documents relating to trump's businesses. now a lawyer for the trump administration falsely called this old news. but did add, they will fully cooperate with all investigations including special counsel mueller's. now the story suggests something more. it suggests that for at least some reason, somehow, bob mueller felt the need to put pressure on that so-called promise of cooperation. he didn't ask for these documents, which you could legally do, he demanded them by subpoena. this very big story is out in the open tonight, only because of reporting from the "new york times" which notes that it is simply at this hour not clear why he would go directly for a subpoena. a senior congressional source told me tonight, though, that it could be mueller's way of trying to make it crystal clear to every staffer at the trump administration they cannot destroy any evidence, that they
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have their own personal criminal exposure. there have been other signs previously that perhaps mueller was interested in the trump administration. you remember the probing reports that he was looking at donald trump's lawyer, michael cohen, who is a figure in the trump administration formally. and on monday, former trump administration sam nunberg told me that mueller questioned him about cohen. >> my relationship with michael, which i consider most of it, and as i said to him, it's privileged because he's a lawyer and i'm a lawyer, so i can't disclose things like that to them. >> cohen we also know is talking about deals -- they discussed those infamous plan to try to build a trump tower in moscow several times and that does contradict donald trump's repeated previous denials of russia business dealings. >> i'm all over the world, but we're not involved in russia. i have nothing to do with
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russia, folks, okay? i have no dealings in russia, i have no deals in russia, i have no deals that could happen in russia, because we have stayed away. and i have no loans with russia. i have nothing to do with russia, i have no investments in russia. none whatsoever. i don't have property in russia. i promise you i never made, i don't have any deals with russia. >> tonight's news proves that bob mueller does not take those statements at face value, and he's using a subpoena for the first time to look at whether there were, yes, deals with russia. i want to turn now to former federal prosecutor seth waxman, as well as natasha pertrain who covered russia for the atlantic. number one, why a subpoena, and two, in a story you're so closely monitoring, why a subpoena, do you view it as an aggressive move toward the trump administration.
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>> one, standard best practices would be to issue a subpoena, to make sure everybody's on the same page for every reason you've stated. and another reason is that they have not had the cooperation they want, they have been getting half productions or productions that look like they're missing documents or they want to put everybody on notes in the trump administration that if they destroy documents or do any shenanig shenanigans, they would face their own legal problems. >> and the kind of prosecution team that bob mueller has put together, what's your theory of trying to do that. >> probably the latter, also an organization like the trump administration, has a document destruction policy, whether it's six months or a year, the corporation will purge records as a normal course of business. you put a general subpoena out there that trumps that rule and makes sure they're following the commandment of the subpoena. the last point i would make is that this is a court enforceable
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southbou subpoena. i might go over to a district court, and talk to a judge and start thinking about contempt charges. >> this is something that congressman schiff was speaking about last night and that rachel maddow was also reporting on last night. which is that probe, which democrats say was kneecaped by the republicans this week, was also getting into the business of money laundering and questions. take a listen to how schiff put it last night. >> i'm particularly interested in the issue of money laundering, is this a lever they can hold over the president of the united states. it would be derelict in our responsibilities not to find out. >> last night, adam schiff says that, today the subpoena hits that same organization, the trump administration. >> it's really interesting and in my conversations with people on this committee, the democrats were pretty much on the verge of really trying to delve into this question of whether or not money laundering occurred. they tried to get a subpoena for deutsch bank, and they wanted to
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subpoena fusion gp s's bank instead. and we saw this in a sort of status report that the democrats on the committee issued the other day, we saw that they had evidence that the trump administration was trying to build a trump tower moscow with the help of a sanctioned russian bank. we don't know which bank that was, it's still a matter of community business, so they are not saying which bank it was. so all sources point to it being this huge bank in russia called spur bank. so if the trump organization was pursuing this -- which the committee left the bread crumbs out there for investigative journalists or even mueller to look at, then it's really problematic for them. >> the thing about bread crumbs, they make you hungry for more. >> that's exactly why they did this. >> look at this in the context of we're not pulling together random shreds. the democrats point to money
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laundering, and if mueller is getting close -- speaking with sources and speaking with some members of congress, i talked to congressman quigley who's on the intelligence committee, to the point you're raising about what the republicans were doing as these questions basically percolated, here's what he said. >> literally from day one, we had committee intelligence with republican leadership working in lock step to sandbag the investigation. >> you think the way republicans shut down this russia probe this week is obstructive? >> absolutely. it's a pattern of behavior. >> so adam schiff has actually come out and said they have seen evidence of collusion and that the republicans have seen it too, but they just chose to ignore it. whether or not that's true, the republicans would say that's not true, what the democrats consider collusion or what they consider some kind of business ties between the trump organization and russia is just a matter of coincidence. but we do know that both donald
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trump jr. and eric trump, trump's sons have said that the russians make up a disproportionate interest in the organization and we saw eric trump as recently as 2014 telling someone who then later told the prison thess that theyd a $100 billion loan that same year to finance trump's golf courses so these are all threads that are hanging out there. >> the beat viewers are smart. they listen to na natt attacash the evidence. you're talking about the money, y you're talking about the cover-up, now you got the subpoena hitting the trump organization, and so why is donald trump always denying this? the comedian billy ichner came on the show and said that donald
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trump said no there was no collusion, that means this is. when donald trump makes that many statements about the russian deals and his sons talk about russian deals and we have evidence of michael cohen who's in the eye of the storm trying to make a deal, what does mueller seek in the documents? >> it's going to take some time to comply. >> i don't mean wrapping up. some of the clues are a little obvious at this point. >> why does donald trump continue to do things that benefit the russians. today he imposed people of those agencies, but those are people who have already been indicted. where are the indictments against the oligarchs, the senior officials close to putin. the argument might be you don't want to sanction people you have been involved in a criminal conspiracy with because they might turn on you. >> when you look at it's comparison, like the internet research agency, that's in the mueller indictment.
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boom, it's in the trump sanctions today. you look at all these other figures, they're all rolled into the sanctions. on the one hand, natasha, shows the trump administration -- what would u.s. foreign policy be right now if trump didn't so brazenly, stupidly remove the fbi director, leading to the appointment of mueller, that leads to the left hand side of the screen i just showed. >> these sanctions are a good step in the right direction because they show that the trump administration is in some way taking russia's election interference seriously. but they also don't go nearly far enough because like seth said, they don't sanction the oligarchs, they don't really hit putin where it hurts which is in his pocket and the oligarchs are basically his -- so the russians say this is basically a carbon copy of what mueller's already
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put out there, let's see if they go a little bit further andlet see if the president himself can actually come out and condemn the russians and issue a statement of support for these sanctions. whi we don't know whether or not whether the trump administration -- >> so we started big, seth, i want to end small. if you're a person working at the trump administration in new york, or at one of their satellite properties, and you're hearing about all this, and you get some pressure, hey, by the way, maybe forget about that, or as donald trump famously told, allegedly told director comey, maybe leave flynn alone, he's a good guy. what is your legal exposure to that? could you go to jail for doing that? >> don't do it. call a lawyer, do what you're supposed to do under that subpoena, because whether it's the ceo, the coo or some other official within the trump administration that says see these documents?
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let's just put them over in this desk and forget about them, that's a criminal act. and that's what this subpoena does, it criminalizes anyone who hides or destroys evidence. >> natasha, is that good legal advice? >> no one's maya wiley. >> i'll end on that one. very much appreciate both the journalistic and legal context on washington. coming up, how the trump administration is the nexxus of these legal questions. we're going to hear from the former dnc chair, donna brazil and the action being taken on stormy daniels. also, revelations about how another trump administration lawyer was involved in the plan to try to silence stormy daniels and why that happened this year and why it matters that donald trump is admitting lying to a key american ally? we'll show you also even more
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from my fun times on capitol hill, and also talk words for speaker ryan. >> so all the shortcomings of the investigation ultimately fall on speaker ryan. he's enabling president trump to obstruct this investigation. >> we'll explain why he said that, i'm ari melber, you're watching "the beat" on msnbc. there's little rest for a single dad. and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid... ...plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve.
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they probably have something on trump, trump did something
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pretty bad. i assume. >> what do they have. >> i don't know. i think they were interested in something with his business. >> with his business? >> yes. >> did they ask you how he ran his business? >> yes, and by the way, i have no idea what he did. >> the trump administration now at the center, his business, of two stories that could engulf this entire presidency, consider the russia probe and that stormy daniels saga are both rotating around this, the same business that has long been a punitive source of donald trump's personal pride. >> my father gave me a very small loan in 1975 and i built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars with some of the greatest assets in it world. we're very proud of our company. we have built one of the really great real estate companies in the world. as a president i could run my company and the country, i would do a very good job. >> that's part of what's happening now. i'm joined by donna brazil, the
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author of "hacks, the inside of break ins and break downs that put donald trump in the white house." >> amen. it's about time. >> you know what they say, kathleen, what time is it? about time. >> i think it was about time i was sitting at this table. >> well, you've been on this show before. that's enough banter, katrina likatrina -- kathleen parker, pulitzer prize winner. a brilliantly terrific writer. >> i gave her 130,000 dlrsz $13 that. >> and if somebody gave me that amount of money, i wouldn't be hiding it. >> did you facilitate it? or did you give it to her. >> i had my people facilitate it and i didn't know anything about it, actually. >> donald trump ran partly on the business. it's now the business that we learn that mueller is subpoenaing, and another lawyer,
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not just michael cohen, but a second lawyer we just learned involved in the payment to stormy daniels. do you have an understanding, what kind of business is this? >> when you say the trump administration, it sounds a little bit like the maffia business. but that's just the color aspect of it. it seems to me that it sounds like -- i mean, it's an organization. you know, it's like the head of the organization says handle this, handle that. obviously trump wanted credible deniability in this case with the stormy daniels payoff. but whether -- i can also see him saying, look, you handle it, i don't want to have anything to do with this, moving on. if this is business, at least that sounds like the kind of business donald trump does, he's quite proud of the fact that he's with the big deals, right? he's cutting the big deals and the little details are handled by the little people. >> it's a family run business
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and he's the head of the family. so in that sense, maybe you're right. it's a family owned business. but it's also a business with a lot of moving parts. we saw it in trump university, we saw it in these instances where trump hired people, fired them, and then they sued him and now we're seeing it once again with this story of stormy daniels, and the role that michael cohen played and facilitated that another trump administration lawyer now claims she was doing this in her individual capacity. not as part of the trump organization. >> they will say that and i don't doubt that cohen paid this out of his own pocket. it's a small amount of money, come on, when you're talking about the level of operations these people are involved in. that's chump change.
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>> $130,000. >> that's pretty easy to come up with if you're in the organization. >> but weeks before the election, then you hide behind it. and now ms. daniels, ms. clifford is alleging that because mr. trump's signature was not on it, she shouldn't have to keep her mouth closed. >> but wait a minute, did his lawyer not have power of attorney? this is the question i haven't heard answered or even discussed. if he has power of attorney, then he has the right to sign for his client, does he not? >> i think it's a little deeper. >> you're the attorney so you answer that question. >> i play a lawyer on tv. i think it goes a little bit deeper. donald trump went afternoon the country, about these people when they came forward, i'm going to talk these people to court. and many people believed him. but this is the relation. now one of those women says to him, calls him on the bluff,
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se says i want to speak, i want to go to court. what's michael cohen doing? he's trying to go to secret arbitration to keep her out of court. what are you so afraid of, trump organization, michael cohen? what you so afraid of? >> this is another iteration of bimbo eruptions. in this case, you're just trying to hush up the people -- >> what are you quoting -- >> i mean in the clinton days. >> are you using that term against them or how do you mean it? >> i'm just saying within the organization, this is probably being viewed as just, get these women out of here, get them to be quiet. but the fact of the matter is, look, people knew what kind of person trudonald trump was when they voted for him. they didn't care. this guy didn't care that he was obviously a sexual predator, player, however you want to put it. and that, you know, there's a lot of sleaziness --
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>> let me go to the politics. >> did it violate the law? >> we don't know. >> i think that's what we need to find out. >> i went to donald trump ral ralli rallies, i would see you on the trail, you are an in demand person, i think they thought that donald trump was a great businessman, the apprentice was real, not a tv show. that he would do for america what he did for the tv show. as we see the trump organization in the eye of the stormy daniels legal storm, and the mueller legal storm, the first time they're hit with subpoenas, if voters learn more about what this organization actually is, will they come to realize it as not a real estate organization, but something else entirely? >> i think a lot of people are going to find out more about president trump before this investigation is over with. he also said he would bring a
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different kind of politics to washington. it's a revolving door, he can't keep key people. this is a president who has promised to be a disrupter, he has disrupted our norms and the way we go about things. >> i want to play on that point, the disruption and the so-called obstruction. i was speaking to mike quigley, the house intelligent democrat. he said this isn't just about donald trump, people need to get real about it's all paul ryan at every step. >> all the shortcomings in the investigation ultimately fall on speaker ryan, he's letting it happen. this is on him. >> you think as a matter of government, paul ryan is the steroids for trump? >> he's enabling president trump to obstruct this investigation. >> is he getting away with it? >> so far. >> final thought? >> i totally agree.
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they closed down this investigation prematurely before bringing forth some of the individuals that mr. mueller has indicted or pleaded guilty. it's bad. paul ryan has done a very bad job. >> donna brazil and kathleen parker, thank you for a spirited panel if i may say so. up next, legal action from buzz feed that involves president trump himself, michael cohen, stormy daniels and the trump dossier, that's next. and we're learning more about a second trump organization lawyer involved in the stormy daniels hush money. you're watching "the beat" live from washington here on msnbc. which egg tastes more farm-fresh and delicious? only eggland's best. which egg has 6 times more vitamin d, 10 times more vitamin e,
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pg. breaking news and this is exclusive on the beat tonight.
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the stormy daniels case just hit the white house. i am holding a new document just sent by ty cobb, asking the -- i also just got off the phone with white house lawyer ty cobb, we spoke about the letter and i have his exclusive response which i'll share with you in a moment. here's the story, this request for stormy daniels' materials, actually part of the publication buzz feed's defense against a libel suit that was brought over the dossier. buzz feed sent this letter to ty cobb, the trump lawyer at the white house. they are asking trump to preserve any documents related to cohen, and also any documents related to stephanie clifford,
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aka stormy daniels. they're also the subject of these allege d secret payments, so that means the pick -- has boom ranged and it just landed on his boss's desk at the white house. what will the trump white house do? i can also tell you as part of the story that's exclusively breaking right now, i got off the phone with ty cobb just before going on the air, and he spoke to me and said, i believe this is the first time i'm seeing this letter, i'll review it and make sure the white house does the right thing. thanks for breaking this story on "the beat." let me start with the legal
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question. what is the purpose of this letter and what do you make of ty cobb's response. >> the dossier actually uses the words to clean up the mess that the trump campaign had made and that is the type of allegation that we're having examples of with the stormy daniels allegation and what we're looking for is really to know what it was mr. cohen did for the trump campaign, because it would help us in our defense of the libel litigation. >> so ben, do you stand by your publication of the dossier, that's what michael cohen allegations is defamatory. >> absolutely. and i think a year, we published a bit more than a year ago, and when we did publish it, some people agreed with the decision to publish it. we published it because it had been reviewed by two -- the core
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of these duelling memos and the fight around devin nunez, saying no the trump dossier was used as the underlying document in the fisa investigation. and it would be hard to understand what's gone on over the last yeari ivf you hadn't rd it. >> i want to be clear, you have send this demand to the white house, ty cobb says they'll do the right thing. i will add in my reporting he declined to speak to whether he had or thinks the white house has the kind of materials you're seeking. but let's go through it to get to the bottom of it. you want to know about any documents related to cohen's
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involvement with donald trump's campaign for president. and everything they have given to mueller. what is the basis for that? do you really think a sitting president has to give you that? >> i think one of the keys to the reasons behind ben's initial decision to public the doz yssi and one of the keys to our legal defense is that this document was actually being investigated and being used by every branch of the government. and for us, from a legal point of view, the more evidence we have that whthat happened, the better arguments we have that this is a document totally privileged, or a document we had every reason in the world to public. so the comments are to emphasize again that this was a document being used to make decisions about everybody's life and that's just the kind of thing you should be publishing as a news organization.
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>> i think that document makes a lot of legal and journalistic sense. let me push you on what some could see as overbroad. can't you win your case and essentially defeat michael cohen's claims about definition, without getting into stormy daniels and karen mcdcdougal? >> sure but in federal discover and in discovery in american litigation, you have an enormously broad scope, in fact in defamation cases you have an unusually broad scope because you're talking got the reputation of one person. i'm certainly entitled to look around for information that i have a reasonable basis to believe can lead to information that helps me in my case and all of these types of documents we think really builds the story that ben began with, that this was central to a government investigation. >> and to be clear, mr. cobb told me he would do the right
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thing, do you read that as the white house will then provide all of this or not? he also mentioned to me that tonight was the first time that he had seen your letter. >> this is the first time hearing about mr. cobb's response and mr. cobb is a respected and reasonable lawyer and i'm sure he'll fulfill all of his legal and ethical considerations. i don't think the trump administration will give me anything without a fight. but i'm sure he will do what he can do. >> it's just about lawyers getting along. we'll see if that happens. >> that's just like what happens in court every day. >> when you look at this basically going from michael cohen, suing your client, ben and buzz feed and now it hitting in what you say is a justified way. and ty cobb saying it's unfrivolous.
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when you see all that happening, do you have a view? does it seem like michael coh cohen's actions have boomeranged on his boss? >> i think a defamation lawsuit is a very complicated thing to file and defend. i don't know that i would agree with the boomerang, but defamation cases are hard to bring, especially after the trump dossier was published and given the way we all know the way the dossier was used. >> over time the view of the dossier has certainly been that it's more newsworthy. i don't see how anyone in the world, including people who hate the dossier at this point would say not newsworthy. but what about the fact that there are things in there that have not been proven, that have not been verified. we have discussed this on air before, i don't think your claim can be everything in there is true. what about people and critics who say, you still put something
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out that has not been pufully verified. >> that's something we reported on the dossier, we wrote a story on the document that had been briefed to two presidents that was of enormous public interest. and we also said that the facts had not been publicly verified. we have certainly reported on mr. cohen, i think we were the first to publish the inside of his passport. and there are elements of the dossier that most strikingly, the big picture of a russian campaign to interfere in the u.s. election that have certainly born out as well as statistics. >> so kate, walk us through what comes next. as i explained when we brought this story a few moments ago, this is the first time we have seen this kind of request about michael cohen and these women he is alleged to have paid, on behalf of whom he won't say, and
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ty cobb tells us they'll do the right thing. so what happens next given all that? you then try to get this material from him? what is the timeline for that? >> it's very early days in the cohen litigation, although the dossier was published a year ago, like i said, he didn't sue until a few year later. so we actually just served with the complaint last week. so the next step hasn't quite been plotted out for us. i think there could be a motion to dismiss, there's no plot that i would be comfortable sharing. >> is it possible that the way this thing is playing out, which looks like a nightmare and a headache for michael cohen's client, donald trump, is it possible that all of this could lead to him wanting to back
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often or potentially drop this suit against buzz feed? >> i have no idea. we'll see how it all plays out. >> ben, anything you want to add in closing? >> no, i mean, i think we aren't sure why mr. cohen chose to file this, that the president's personal lawyer sued us here, but we're absolutely confident that we did the right thing in publishing the dossier and glad to be represented by good counsel. it's a high profile case. when you write things that people don't like, you have to be prepared to be sued. >> this could also lead to other public revelations. it would seem to me that mr. cobb was also interested in this latest move in this case that you guys have put toward.
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thanks for coming on "the beat." we'll have a lot more ahead, including more on the breaking news we just broke. and also i caught up with a democrat on the house intel committee today. >> i think he's most interested in obtaining power and keeping it. i think that's the story of president trump's life. and he doesn't care what he has to do to maintain that power. >> what congressman quigley says comes next, we're back with a special report in 90 seconds. only invisalign® clear aligners are made with smarttrack® material
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welcome back to the beat and more on this exclusive story a that's breaking right now. i'm holding a letter from buzz feed that was septembnt to ty c. what's different tonight as i was just discussing with buzz feed representatives themselves is they're targeting president trump and asking for materials relating to cohen, stormy daniels, rush that and a whole lot more. let's get right back to it. with me is donna brazil, and i'm joined by heidi frizbola. i'll start with the federal prosecutor, what do you think of this breaking news, buzz feed's legal strategy hitting the white house, and ty cobb's comments before i came on set that they're going to do the right thing? >> they have no choice but to do the right thing, they're going
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to have to give the information that the special counsel wants. >> do you agree with the premise of the question stated on legal strategy that michael cohen picked a fight with buzz feed over the dossier that seems to be boomeranging. >> if he's going to take on buzz feed on that point and he tries to shift the narrative away from the issues that are facing him, that's going to be a tactic that's not going to play well and i don't think it's going to play well with the prosecutors. >> focussing on expectation, i'll just tell heidi, i was expecting ty cobb to be concerned. and i ran into him, i said all communications with president trump about stephanie clifford and about karen mcdougal and documents that went to mueller. and i thought, as some might think, this is a fishing expedition, this is a witch hunt
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as his client says, instead, he just says we'll do the right thing. >> there's been that -- that ty cobb's role has been simply to provide that documentation to hul mueller, in this case, it's a separate case, but buzz feed is making its case that it's involved. just last week, president trump was talking to a separate lawyer, to handle kind of his personal requests coming in mueller, so ty cobb, i think has a narrow mandate here and i'm actually not surprised. >> you're not surprised. and this goes to something that also broke with another trump lawyer, jill martin, which we were justing earlier in the show, let's take a look at the role he has played. >> i know him and i have seen him around women, thousands of women including myself, he's treated us with nothing but respect. i don't believe that he's done anything inappropriate with
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women. in the past six years, that nothing like this has ever come forward about mr. trump. >> that was after "access hollywood," nothing like this has actually come forward. that's interesting coming from her, because she's involved in these payments, she's now involved in the michael cohen piece, and she's involved in a document request hitting the white house. >> once again, ms. martin on several occasions during the 2016 campaign went out publicly to deny all these allegations that were surfacing against mr. trump and his so-called behavior towards women. now she said she was acting in her individual capacity, not representing the trump organization because we know if the trump organization was involved, this could possibly lead to what i call more legal problems because if the trump organization is involved and there's money involved, then that could -- >> it's really when you line up the timeline, really brazen, considering that this is the same time that they're calling
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all of these women liars. and according to ms. clifford's lawyer, there's other women. and we don't know if these women were the women that trump allegedly harassed or if there's other ndas out there, but this is also the time when trump sought out bill clinton's accusers and trotted them on stage at a debate and now to learn that all of this was going on behind the scenes, at least with one woman maybe more. >> and as you said, we don't know, but that's what buzz feed wants to know, and that cease where michael cohen's lawsuit at the risk of repeating this is rather extraordinary when it comes to the white house, he picked the fight with buzz feed. whether that's good lawyering or not, we'll find out. the letter is certainly fascinating. up ahead, a different turn, donald trump bragging about lying to an ally. they keep coming back.
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quigley told me trump's lying is hurting foreign policy. >> i think foreign leaders don't trust this president. if he gets away with what we're investigating here, he will be empowered to do more things like it. he's most interested in obtaining power and keeping it. i think there's a bigger problem. this is a president who is so familiar sis cystic, he can never accept blame. >> this comes after the tape surfaced of donald trump at a fund-raiser boasting about a lie he told justin trudeau about trade. >> trudeau came to see me. he said no, no, we have no trade deficit with you. we have none. donald, please, nice guy, good looking guy comes in. donald, we have no trade deficit. i said you do. i didn't even know. josh, i had no idea. i just said you're wrong because
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we're so stupid. and i thought it was funny. i said you're wrong, justin. >> the president sticking by that lie today. in the "art of the deal," he also wrote about misleading his own business partners. they were touring a building site. he wanted to create the false appearance of progress rounding up bulldozers telling the crew to transform the vacant property into the most active construction site in the history of the world. what they did wasn't important as long as they did a lot of it. joining us is the editor for "the new york times." you've bryn you've written a lot about this president, about these lies. >> it used to be a relevant world. >> we got a window into how he thinks about this. if you look at the sentences, he said i didn't even know. i just said. it's clear to -- it's clear that
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the idea of what's true doesn't matter to him. he's not even concerned. it might be true, it might not be. he just thinks what's convenient and useful for him to say. as he said, he just says it. that's what he did. >> this comes up here also in this audio which is revealing. another misleading claim where he sounds like someone marveling at the way he's been able to beat the video game as if there's no factual or ethical component to this. >> i sent one of our guys out, his guy, my guy, they went out. i said check because i can't believe it. well, sir, you're actually right. we have no deficit but that doesn't include energy and timber. and when you do, we lose $17 billion a year. it's incredible. >> how does that affect policy making when you have republicans who would claim they do care about the actual economic facts? lord knows their constituents
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do. >> i think the first thing that's important to say here is in any meaningful way you look at it, trump is wrong about this. so in fact, we have a trade surplus with canada. what it tells you there isn't an underpinning of reality by which he is trying to set policy which is deeply disturbing. he's doing it on whims, making uppize when it makes him look better, when it justifies policies that would help people he wants to help people. it's a damaging way to conduct life in a democracy. >> right. and boasting about it is so vital because it shows the state of mind, the intent, the guilt, if you will, as opposed to someone who might have made a mistake. david lean hard, thanks for coming by. >> and don't go anywhere because the realist got real on the ellen show". why "the beat" was there. we'll show you next. it lets you know where your data lives, down to the very server. it keeps your insights from prying eyes, so they're used by no one else but you. it is... the cloud.
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here's something we wanted to show you, the real lift from the beat" meets the ellen degeneres show."
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>> i was flipping through the channels the other day and i stopped on ms. nbc. msnbc. so i saw this. >> last year, the administration recommended allowing again overriding president obama to bringing in trophy animals. donald trump took a stand. and he overruled it and he banned it. until last week when he reversed himself. >> thank you, senator. bob and i go way back. i'm kidding. i don't know him. but i appreciate what he said. so thanks so much for doing that. elephants aren't trophies. they're beautiful creatures and need to be protected. i hope they keep talking about it on msnbc and mr. nbc. >> you got it, ellen. i didn't know that the senator was going to go give you his real lift award for your work on the elephants but did he and you're welcome to come on and tell us who is on your real list anytime. as for everything else, it's
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been quite the hour. we had the breaking news that buzzfeed is going directly to the white house asking for michael cohen and stormy daniels documents and ty cobb telling me tonight they'll do the right thing. that is our show. i'll be back 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. "hardball" with chris matthews starts now. mueller at the white house gates. let's play "hardball"". good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight the investigation led by robert mueller has approached the white house gates. "the new york times" reports that robert mueller has subpoenaed the trump organization to turn over documents including some related to russia. according to the report, it is the first known instance of the special counsel demanding documents directly related to trump's businesses, bringing the investigation closer to the president. while theco

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