tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 16, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
>> tonight on "all in." >> i have no deals in russia. >> as the mule ter investigation officially enters trump tower, a long-time figure in president trump's circle joins me live. >> i was working on a bunch of real estate transactions with donald trump of all people. >> tonight, my interview with felix sater on his time working with donald trump. the russia investigation. and his double life as an american spy. then explosive new allegations from the lawyer for stormy daniels. >> was she threatened in any way? >> yes. >> was she threatened physical harm? >> yes. >> as the president played reality show with his cabinet -- >> i read where maybe people don't want to work for trump. >> the incredible new scandal for his secretary of defense jim mattis when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes.
a very big interview for you tonight with one of the most compelling and mysterious figures in the russia investigation. we learned yesterday that special counsel robert mueller has subpoenaed the trump organization which, of course, oversees donald trump's business ventures of for all documents related to russia and other topics mueller is investigating. for nearly a decade, a lot of they ventures involved felix sater. he spent a year in prison for slashing a man's face in a bar fight and a stock fraud conviction. that's a tiny part of his story. sater went on to partner with trump on a string of projects, that's sater at the mike at the launch the ill fated trump soho. last year we learned he wrote an e-mail to michael cohen nen 2015 vowing to engineer a deal to build a trump tower in moscow writing our boy can become president of the u.s. il get all of putin's team to
buy in. he added i will get putin on there program and we will get donald elected. what we're just learning hanks to great reporting at buzzfeed, it turns out he was also amazingly an intelligence operative for the u.s. government with a resume out of a spy thriller. confirming this week sater obtained five of osama bin laden's personal phone numbers before september 11th, helped flip a taliban source to get information about al qaeda training camps, revealed plans for an attempted assassination of bush and powell and went undercover to catch russian and ukrainian cyber criminals. loretta lymph was asked about sater's fraud case specifically which she had overseen. he had been convicted of a $40 million scheme but only ended up paying a $25,000 fine. lynch explained why. for more than ten years, he, worked with prosecutors
providing information crucial to national security and the conviction of over 20 individuals including those responsible for massive financial fraud and members of la cosa nostra. i have never met anyone with that resume. >> thank you for having me on. >> here's my take away from that resume. what kind of man are you, felix say thor? >> i guess complex to say the least. you know, i'm an immigrant that came to this country at the age of 7, grew up here, went to school. >> right. >> went on to work on wall street. had a very successful career on wall street as a young man. unfortunately, one night in a drunken bar brawl, up with guy went for a beer bottle, i went for a margarita glass. that changed the trajectory of my life. >> you did a year for that. >> i went to jail and did a year for that bar fight. when i came out, i had no money.
young child. had no money. and in a moment of weakness, nothing that i'm proud of then or now, or have i ever been, got involved in the stock scam which is the shady side of wall street which was something that was devastating to me because i had planned to have a very successful wall street career. and i did that for less than two years. left voluntarily on my own. got out of it. and because i just hated it. i despised every day and minute of it. when i used to go to sleep, i used to hate it. >> let me ask you this. if someone came to me, chris hayes and said hey, chris, you're in a jam with the law. but if you can do some things, if you can talk to these people, find out information like for instance who is selling stinger miffs in afghanistan, or what cyber criminals are up to in ukraine, i would say that sounds great but i have no idea where
to start. you were a person who does know how to start. explain to me that talent. you seem -- i'm serious. you seem to be able to find your way towards people like that and get them to trust you. >> well, first, let me clear up a small misconception that's been reported is that the things that i've done in terms of national security in terms of my assistance to the government on financial crimes, whether it was mafia or whether it was financial assaults on our financial institutions by cyber criminals, or terrorists such as osama bin laden, what's most important and which has not been reported is that i starred working for u.s. intelligence way before the stock case came around. so nobody came to me and said go do this for us and then you'll get out of this. >> what kind of person does that? how are you finding your way into these seamy underworlds to
get information the u.s. government can find useful. >> let me tell you the story how that happened. after i got out of clearly the shady side of wall street for about a year, i was working on very legitimate financial transactions. and i think anybody who researches me could see that i stopped in 1996 voluntarily just left because truthfully, i didn't want to do it anymore. it was disgusting, despicable and garbage. i'm sorry and i -- very sorry that that happened. and i accept full responsibility. it was my fault and people lost money. and because of the things that i did. and if i haven't yet, anyone that is out there that i have caused any pain, i apologize to. i'm very sorry for. so in '96, i stopped, got out of wall street. i started working on financial transactions. somebody from the british royal family lord churchill, tells me
he has a friend who is doing a telecommunications deal in st. petersburg, russia. russia had just soviet union collapsed. it's now russia. it's the wild west. i said could you help him? he's having problems with his deal. i said okay, no problem. so i fly over to russia. i take a look at his deal and realize he's beyond help. there's to way to help him. his deal is going under. but i realize that there's a very big opportunity in telecommunications. and i starred negotiating with at&t to rent the transatlantic cable. i figured i'll have a transatlantic cable and i can sell phone minutes, phone cards, et cetera, et cetera. now, telecommunications in the soviet union and then in russia was pretty much controlled by russian intelligence hard-core. >> so you start talking to those people. >> i started talking to telecommunications executives who clearly were intelligence operatives. >> are you the kind of guy that knows when you're talking to an intelligence operative. >> no, but i'm a pretty good
judge of character. i sort of figured ha they couldn't be regular joes. >> i ask because that's a looming -- that's something that looms over this whole story. it looms over donald trump and his campaign. did they knew who they were talking to. let me ask you this, how did you meet donald trump? >> i -- we formed a company in 2000 to do real estate development. >> that was in his office? >> no, we were in the building. we were in trump tower. we were on the 24th floor. trump organization was on the 26th floor. i basically knocked ob his door, said i think we should become partners. have i great real estate deals. i'm going to be a very successful developer. you want to work with me. >> a very trump yab move. >> i think it was a very felixy move. >> did you get along in. >> yes. >> how would you characterize your relationship? >> friendly. >> talked a lot. >> sometimes. >> when you worked on a deal, talked on the phone, in person? >> mostly in person. i was two doors down.
i would go upstairs and speak to him. but to return to your question about how is it that i meet people like that, as an example, knocking on donald trump's door and saying hi, let's start working. when i was working on telecommunications deal, i was invited to a dinner party in moscow. and there was a lot of russians there. i was there and a guy walks in, an american guy older. and somebody says, you guys should meet each other. you're both cia agents. i thought it was a joke. and all evening long. >> he's predicting your future. >> i think so. i think he was. and he is sitting there and peppering me with questions all night long. i go to the bathroom. he follows me into the bathroom and says can i have your phone number. i said sure. i'd like to talk to you about business. i said no problem. the next day i meet him in an irish pub in moscow now far from the kremlin. his name is milton blaine where he proceeds to tell me he's been a military intelligence operative for the government for the last 40 years of his life
and that the u.s. government desperately needs. >> people like you. >> well, specifically that the people that i'm sitting with are high end russian intelligence operatives and he says felix, they seem to like having a drink with you. they seem to make jokes with you. he said we've been trying to penetrate these people for years. i said okay. he said look, your country needs you. the soviets at that point had developed kh anticipate radar system. they said basically their planes can fly in and our radar can't jam them. we need this equipment. >> you have a relationship, you speak fluent russian. you can go over and do business. you go back and forth. you go to moss kuo cow in the wake of this case. >> in the wake of had i case. >> the stock fraud case. >> i went to russia to work on a transaction. the stock case happened in '96 which i did for about 18 months. i went to russia in '97.
the -- what's been reported that i ran away because, that's not true. that's just not true. >> you go there and one of the things you do where all these different threads come together is you're working on trump moscow, right? >> no, no, no. we're now speaking about 1997. >> wa i'm saying a person who have contacts in russia, you speak russian. later in your life you become a business partner with donald trump. you guys work on fort lauderdale. >> phoenix it, trump soho. a whole host of other projects. >> you end up working on trump moscow, an important project that produced the e-mails everyone knows about. it's the project a lot of people are curious about and i want to ask you about your involvement in that project and what happened to it if you would stick around after this break. will you do that. >> absolutely. >> all right. let's go. there are two types of people in the world. those who fear the future...
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in russia with trump. at one point, you're over there with the trump kids, right? >> yes. >> with ivan an ca and don junior. >> yes. >> how connected are you in russia at that point? >> i know some business people there. i know enough business people to try to put together a deal, plus i speak russian. plus i have no problem knocking on somebody's door and saying hi, i'm here. we're going to builded about something beautiful and let's do business. >> the trump moscow deal you're pursuing, that e-mail, here's the way people read that e-mail. there's some beak there's some back story here in which the deal is part of the election interference. there's some quid pro quo or some idea. and here's the one we talked about we can get our buddy elected. here's the one i think is interesting and "the new york times" characterized the e-mails. he was eager to show video clips to his russian cannings of instants of mr. trump speaking glowingly of russia. if he says it, we own this
election, mr. sater wrote. >> yes. >> why these e-mails? there's two of them here. why are you making this connection between building this building in russia and his electoral success? me personally i was trying to bid the tallest building in the world or in europe. >> why is donald trump going to be elected president if he builds a building in moscow? >> because doing a gigantic deal would have looked good. it was good for business. it could have ushered in an era of detente or good will between the nations because a businessman came in and it's better than politicians. >> at no point at any point did any russian communicate to you interest in cultivating donald trump on behalf of the russians, kremlin friendly forces? >> i have risked my life to try to protect our country for over 20 years in situations and places that would make your hair stand on end. the insinuation that i would get
together with anyone, especially russia of au places or any other country in the world for the detriment of our country is not only insulting but laugh credible. >> that may be the case. not an answer to the question. >> i'll be more than happy to answer the question. >> did anyone suggest to you an interest in cultivating donald trump on behalf of either the kremlin, kremlin allied forces, people in russian intelligence when you were working on this deal? >> absolutely not. >> was it ever communicated to you that they were interested in donald trump for reasons other than business? >> absolutely not. >> why does the deal fall through in moscow. >> because the trump organization announced they were not going to do any more international deals. >> did you seeking to acquire funding through russian banks port deal? >> to build a building like that in moscow, the only barnes, you go to are russian banks. >> was one of them vtb. >> yes. >> you did seek to acquire
funding through vtb it. >> it wasn't my deal. i put the deal together. i came to michael cohen. part of the e-mails is i've known him since i'm a teenager. it's basically two old friends saying our guy can become president. we were excited. it wasn't something surreptitious it was two guys who knew each other over 30 years excited somebody threw. >> i've heard you say that before. >> that's true. >> i understand that. but you're a very you're not a kid and not a naive dude. >> no, or course. >> you just told me you've been in situations where your hair stands on. you've been flipping taliban people and talking to la koes sa knows tra. do you understand why people might be skeptical this is like giddy enthusiasm? >> yes, i'm sure they are. and the e-mails may sound damning. but at the end of the day, it was e-mails between two friends about a real estate transaction and me from my perspective from my side, i'm trying to build a
billion dollar deal. the reality is, putin, trump, and if i knew people in china, i would have tried to get the premier of china involved and get a trifecta going. >> let me make sure i nail this down. people associated with the deal, you said it wasn't your deal. a developner russia was looking to vtb for financing. > i had a local developer there and the trump organization here and i was in the middle. the local developer there would have gotten financing from vtb and or another russian bank but vtb was at that point the go-to bank for real estate development. that's why vtb. >> your business has been sued before, bay rock. >> yes. >> and i want to read you part of that lawsuit. i know you deny this. i want to get you on the record. >> no problem. >> in a lawsuit an file bid someone in bay rock, was the group that helped develop trump soho here in new york city. >> yes. >> someone that you worked with said in the lawsuit, tax evasion and money laundering are the core of bay rock's business
model. the lawsuit alleges said trump soho building specifically was a monument to spectacularly corrupt money laundering and tax evasion. >> yes, it was an employee who first reached out to me who said let's get money from your partner and from the law firms and he sued me and 12 other law firms and over 100 individuals for $1 billion. subsequently in that lawsuit, a federal judge referred the lawyers who were handling that for criminal prosecution to the u.s. attorney's office. >> do you think -- just that's not a denial though. >> it's absolutely denial. it's 100% denial. >> did bay rock ever launder money. >> absolutely not. >> did the trump soho deal depend on money being used purchases that were being as youed to mask researches for the purpose of laundering. > no, absolutely not. >> you can know that definitively? >> well, us building the building and the money that came
from came from tom sapir, a large land owner in the new york. that's the money we used to build it. buyers of those units like anyplace else, some of them are l cs. you don't know who is behind it. whether we were involved in selling to someone for the purpose of masking anything, absolutely not. >> how interested is donald trump in the people on the other side of the deal from him. >> like any developer very little. if they bring a collect and the check clears, they're a good customer. >> that's his m.o. >> that's every developer in new york's m.o. >> not sfre developner new york runs for president. >> true. >> you take that m.o. and put it in a different situation, would you take a meeting for dirt on your opponent, right? >> i don't know. i'm not a politician. i'm assuming every politics would but i don't know. >> my question to you is having worked with the guy, is he the kind of person who would be open to that kind of thing? >> i don't believe that donald trump would -- open to what type
of thing money laundering? >> accepting dirt from a foreign adversary about his opponent. i'm asking about the president, someone who you know and just described as a person in a development situation who's if the other person on the side of the deal's check clears, he doesn't want to ask questions. in a political context if the other person on the other side of the deal is offering dirt on his opponent, is he the kind of person who says i don't want to know where this came from but i'll take it. >> obviously the answer is junior. >> from don junior. i'm talking about the president. >> i don't know if i can answer that. i don't know if i can answer that question. i don't believe that donald trump would ever meet or col include with a foreign power against our country. i certainly would never even speak to him if i ever thought that was the case. i don't believe that other than getting dirt on an opponent, that it was thought through a lot. i don't believe the idea was thought through where it was coming from, who it was coming from. it was political.
we've got dirt on you're opponent, great, let's take it. >> do you think the russians meddled with the election. >> 100%. >> what's your feeling about that. >> i think they attacked us. it's act of war and i'm absolutely disgusted that our politicians are having a one and a half year postmortem how they m meded. i grew up in brooklyn. somebody attacks you you punch them back not once but twice. at this point, doing something is very important for america to show everyone don't mess with us. >> why is the man that you worked with that you know, why is he not. >> you have to ask him that question. >> i'm asking you because you worked with him. i didn't. >> i worked with a lot of people. i can't speak for all of them. >> you know something about how the guy operates, right? >> i believe so. >> let me put it this way. there is a supposition of some that the reason he is not acted for forcefully lens russia is is because they have something on him or he is engaged in a quid
pro quo. is that plausible. >> look, anything's possible. i don't know. i wasn't part of the campaign. i wasn't part of the election. i was out of the trump organizationing in 2010. that was years before. i only showed up just to do the trump moscow deal. i don't believe so but i wasn't there and i don't know. i don't believe so but if you showed me proof, i certainly would take a look and say, or course. >> one of the things the president says, i got no deals in russia. we know that's true. he doesn't have deals in russia, no building bearing lis name. the the question is -- is there russian money in his properties. the question is, was russian money directed to his properties? was it money that passed through different llcs? do you know the answer to that. >> i have an assumption about that. for anyone in the russian government to pass money through to the trump organization, through his properties which had to have happened way before the election, i doubt anyone has a
krystal ball and truly believed one day this developer is going to be the president of the united states. so let's start funneling money to him. >> they did take an interest in him. >> who. >> the russian pooz. >> they bring him over for the pageant. >> of course. but that was business. look. >> wait a second. you tell me you're at a business about the telecom industry in russia and an american intelligence guy pulse you in the bathroom and says these are operatives we need to get interested. you can't say that was just business. it seems like business and other things are enter twined in russia. >> 100%. >> if donald trump's going and he's doing the pageant in moscow with the agriculture lar roves, the kremlin knows what's going on. >> i've met one of them. >> you met them in person. >> one in person. the con. >> emin. >> in what context? >> dinner he party in moscow.
>> this is my finally question for you. >> sure. >> it's established that you worked with the government as an intelligence asset, right? >> yes. there is no parentheses, no close on that rip. >> no, there is no book end and close end. i would work with my government in any capacity that they would ask me today. >> tomorrow until the day i day. >> you worked for the fbi. >> yes, i do. >> you worked with andrew weissmann, a lawyer at the doj. >> he signed my cooperation agreement. >> andrew weissmann now works for robert mueller, correct. >> yes. >> people look at this and maybe start to think two and two quas four. you're a guy who knows how to talk to people, you have a relationship with the fbi and andrew wise man. andrew weissmann is working for robert mueller. are you working for robert mueller. >> i'm not working for robert mueller nor have i ever worked with robert mueller. >> have you worked with the fbi in its investigation. >> i can't answer anything about
any ongoing investigations happening. >> do you understand why people might come to that conclusion. >> of course. that doesn't mean it's true just because they come to the conclusion. >> fee lich sater, you can read more about his incredible life in buzzfeed. it was great to have you on the show. >> i would like to say that all i can be say is after so much terrible things written about me, i'd like to thank anthony cormier and jason leopold. >> you're trying to clear your name. that's what you're doing. >> i'm just trying to give everyone a full picture of everything i've done. a full picture so there can be a balance instead of just reporting what i did in my 20s. i'm 52 years old and reporting them as if it happened last tuesday which it didn't. >> there's a lot. >> there's a lot. >> yes. >> thank you for coming by. come back, all right? >> thank you. >> ahead more on where things stand for the president as robert mueller looks into the russian dealings. plus a lawyer for stormy daniels
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like complimentary wi-fi and drinks. plus savings for everyone in your stateroom when you book now during the celebrity cruises sail beyond event. the insinuation that i would get together with anyone, especially russia of all places or any other country in the world, for the detriment of our country is not only insulting but laughable. >> we're back to digest my conversation intelligence operative convicted felon, former trump business partner felix sater. congresswoman jackie speier joins me tonight from california. here in new york, atlantic staff writer natasha bertrand. and investigative economist james henry who joined a lawsuit to unseal the criminal records of sater and compiled an examination of trump's private russian connections for the
american interest magazine. congresswoman, i'll start with you. you did not have an opportunity to speak to fee lich sater as part of the house intelligence investigation but the majority staff did. do i have that right? >> that's correct. i mean, there were a couple members that were able to go up to new york. get this the majority decided to travel to new york city to question felix sater when everyone else was brought to washington, d.c. to be interviewed. so i've always thought that was peculiar that they made that accommodation for him. >> do you think he's an important figure to your investigation? >> i do think he's an important figure. i thought it was a fascinating interview you had with him. i wanted you to ask him whether or not ivanka did sit in vladimir putin's seat. >> yes. in fact -- >> he makes it seem like he didn't have any relationship with putin tonight but it certainly seems like he was making that case previously. >> natasha, what did you make of
that? >> i think that felix sater has actually been pretty consistent on this point for a long time. he and i have been going back and forth for just as a reporter trying to get kind of information out of him and his consistent point is, it's as you been you don't understand the relationship that i have with the u.s. government. he was never willing to really expound upon that. there were always rupe mores about the possibility that he had been working undercover with the fbi, there were some reports from like the '90s he had been doing that. this is something he was very just kind of evasive about. he wouldn't go into it. he said he would never betray the united states. i think that what this interview did show is that he knows a lot about donald trump. and he knows a lot about the history of donald trump's business dealings, his real estate empire. did he work in the trump organization very closely with him. of course, before he ran for president. one of the things i found kind of implausible was towards the end when he said there was no way that the russians could have
known he was running for president. therefore, why would they be funneling money to him beforehand. the russians have had their eye on ruch since the '80s. donald trump has been weighing a run for president since well before he announced it in 2015. >> there's a famous tweet at the miss universe in 2013 of one of the russians there saying he's going to make a great president. so there was some idea. >> right. there's some dispute between whether or not michael cohen and felix sater have a close relationship. in the interview, sater mentioned he and cohen were kind of going back and forth as old friends whereas cohn told me recently he doesn't know sater all that well. >> we should say the president himself once said in a deposition, he couldn't pick out of a room which is nod plausible. >> why does the president feel compelled to distance himself from felix. >> you have been tracking sater for a long time. you have a skeptical and bemused look on your face. >> i think he's a financial
whitey bulger. you know, it may be or may not be true, i'd love to have some cia people come forward and go on the record about this, that he's done all these wonderful deeds. but i think there's also another interpretation. we know from a lot of work that a core group of journalists people like zem blah and zdf in germany and the netherlands have been doing, felix sater has been involved in financial fraud and money laundering right up to 2014, 2015, helping say set up companies in the netherlands back in 2007 to help klepto crates take money out of kazakhstan and park it in the trump soho. and round tripping it. these are people klepto crates are people like a fellow yozof who had a $10 billion frank fraud ended up lending much of the money to himself. >> you're alleging that sater played a role in being the sort of conduit for that money.
>> he formed those companies with his partner crap i negative who is now in geneva having flown the coop with $300 million. it's hard for broadcast journalists to do sound bite journalism on this guy. it's a complicated story. one basic question for felix is, have you stopped money laundering? are you profiting from this? what happened to the $40 million to $60 million of financial profits that you took from those victims of the fraud back in 1998? >> it was a 40 upwards of $40 million. >> victims restitution act and for all of his contrition these days has been unwilling to say what happened to all that money. >> it's a remarkable set of facts he was implicated and convicted in that just if you look at the stock fraud scheme which he talked about. and never really -- he didn't go to jail. he paid a fine and the reason that loretta lynch has to answer for it in her hearings is
because it's such a remarkable bit of forbearance on the part of the government. >> the secrecy deal enabled donald trump to raise money in conjunction with sater. for say thor to raise hundreds of millions. >> because it was all sealed until at least fred jobe ober lander an attorney in new york helped to reveal in 2011. there was a "new york times" report in 2007. we think trump knew about sater's background, failed to disclose it to his coinvestors and that's a concealment fraud. the statute of limitations for that doesn't run out till november, 2020ing. > congresswoman, are you confident that -- that someone whether it's you although probably not the house intelligence committee giving as how the majority has closed down the investigation or mueller will be able to sort of get their arms around the actual truth about either sater or trump or trump moscow and the kind of financial background to
the possibility of entanglements? >> that is where the crimes have been committed. it's the money laundering. i thought the fact that felix sater said, well you just accept the money and any developer and certainly that's what donald trump did, there is a law in this country the foreign corrupt practices act that requires to you make sure that the money you're getting in a real estate deal is not laundered. i think mueller is going directly there. and the money laundering that went on in soho that went on in the florida properties, all of which have gone belly up one way or the other, and in many of these patrons they were all cash trchs. and they were all llcs. they were all shell companies so you couldn't track who was actually buying tease properties. i think he was the go between. >> one significant little part of the story that sater was able to confirm was the source of possible funding on the development of trump moscow.
take a listen to what he said about that. >> let me make sure i nail this part down. so the people associated with the deal, you said you put the deal together. a developer in russia was looking to vtb for financing. > i had a local developer here and the trump organization here and i was in the middle. the local developer there would have gotten financing from vtb and or another russian bank but vtb was at that point the go-to bank for real estate development. that's why vtb. >> significant because that's a sanctioned russian bank. >> exactly we were kind of trying to get this answer out of the house intel committee for a number of days. they refused to answer the question of what sanctioned bank this was. vtb is the second largest russian lender. it is massive. it's not surprising that they would be the ones to be giving funding to trump tower moscow. this was something donald trump was pursuing during the presidential election. he was factually, he was pursuing this deal with a russian sanctioned bank. it also shows exactly the extent
of what felix sater knows. >> while he was running for president, he was pursuing a deal with a sanctioned russian bank. >> this is something felix sater was able reveal. that shines light on the importance of felix say thor to the special counsel and this entire investigation. >> will you just for a second zoom out for a bit? right? because part what have we've seen in the complaints against manafort and part of what is being sort of called into question with felix sater what you just said is, the remarkable flows of money that come out of russia and the former soviet republics in concentrated very intensely in a group of oligarchs doing a lot of the things to get that money out to places in the west. >> that's the original sin in this story which is the failed transition in the '90s when we beak handed off russian to 30 or 40 oligarchs. and that created the base not only for putin and the counter
revolution that he held but also for trump who ended up being financed at a time when he wasn't able to borrow from u.s. banks because he had had four to six bankruptcy in the '90s. he had rely on money from the former soviet union capital flight and dirty money. >> congresswoman jackie speier, natasha, james henry.thanks for joining me tonight. still to come, the surprising new name on list of trump administration officials mired in scandal and why no one seems to want to talk about it. and marco rubio's dedication to protecting daylight savings is thing 1, thing 2 next.
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savings time permanent. with that announcement came a whole new round of booing and a harsher view of killing the by annual clock change. >> mr. speaker daylight saving not plural time has never saved us from anything. >> that's thing 2 in 60 seconds. thing. your getting serious thing. that moving out of the friend zone, moving in together and getting two of everything thing. those fur babies preparing you for real babies thing. that one for me, one for you, us together for the rest of forever thing. buy one iphone 8, get one iphone 8 on us. more for your thing. that's our thing. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours.
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from our clocks to our privately built for profit prisons and yes, to the very watches on our wrists. the daylight savings time loving bureaucrats have been punching the clock on the taxpayers' dime for too long. well, now it's time for me to punch a clock. with a hammer. >> oh. >> oh. oh. >> and timothy symons the actor who plays that fictional congressman jonah ryan definitely noticed marco ruben has taken this position what time it is. he said literally this is a stance we thought basso dumb that jonah ryan would sponsor it. sponsor gun control legislation, i spineless turd, children are
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donald trump the master of commanding media attention seems to have met his match in michael avenatti, a lawyer for was she plate threatened in any way? >> yes. >> was she threatened physical harm? >> yes. >> did it come from the president directly, physical threats? >> i'm not going to answer that. >> will you deny that the president of the united states threatened your client? >> i will not confirm nor deny. >> he is smooth declined to give more details although in subsequent interviews he mentioned threats of subsequent violence. koi coincidentally enough, donald trump's lawyer has a history of hyper aggressive tactics. in 2015 for example on the "daily beast" reported rape allegations which he's since
withdrawn and cohen responded by saying quote, i'll make sure you and i meet in the courthouse and take you for every penny you still don't have and come after your daily beast and everybody else you possibly know and this is my favorite part so i'm warning you tread very f-ing lightly because i'm warning you, what i'm going to do to you will be f-ing disgusting. asked about cohen's pension for these tactics. >> if anybody and by that i mean anybody, if anybody engages in tactics like that in this piece of litigation with me or my client, there is going to be a reckoning. i'm telling you that right now because we will not tolerate conduct like that. >> now bloomberg reporting, the president is moving his attempt to keep stormy daniels quiet about an affair to federal court. the white house denies allegations. michael cohen is hardly the only dubious character. there is a long list now of
trump administration officials past and present caught up in some kind of wrongdoing. among them, several cabinet secretaries who called to the white house for private meetings and scolded for ethics scandals but absent from that group is james mattis. even though he's been implicated in what the securities and exchange commission called an elaborate fraud where he was a board member matt iglesias saying nobody in washington wants to even talk about the defense secretary's link to massive corporate fraud because everyone in washington is convinced mattias' presence in the pentagon is the only thing standing between us and nuclear armageddon. joining me now 2016 presidential candidate and eddie who is professor of religion and maria who is host and executive producer for latino usa. mattias has a lot to answer for. he was on the board of a company to which he length his name and
part of what they were selling was engaged in massive fraud and at the same time, i saw you nodding your head to the idea that gosh, don't go after him. >> well, to me when i was reading into this is just like wow, there is a click thing that goes on. that if you're part of that clique, you're going to want to build up the clique. i'm like these are people who are sitting on board of directors and did not know or knew and they were letting this happen and it's just like people covering for each other. i don't know. >> that i should say is a phenomenon that predates donald trump. the world of board circulation that happened and the way it cultivated people. >> it's happening right now in this context which everythien e happening, let's be clear how things have been done in this country. >> there seems to be an ethics deficiency among the folks that hang around donald trump and we're making this kind of cost benefit analysis.
mattias isn't as bad as all of these other pokes and to the extent to which he isn't as bad as other folks, he is still doing some good because he's probably the last adult standing. and if he -- if we go after him based upon this behavior, what do we leave ourselves with? >> that gets to the question of should people serve in this administration? that's a deep and profound question as they cycle through these people what is your answer to that? >> first of all, look, i have to say clearly there is a deficiency, ethics defin si in the -- defin ciency. i know him by reputation because i served overseas. when he was serving overseas. >> he has a good reputation. >> he has a good reputation. i can't imagine he would, as a member of a board of a company
knowingly push a product that was a complete force. >> let me just say, that may or may not be true. my thing about mattias is he has questions to answer. we need to know -- >> trust. >> yeah. >> i know you know him but do we trust? >> i do. in this age where we got so much filth on the right and left and i don't mean politically but with the trump administration, there is one guy i believe who still has honor, at least, and at that level and it is mattias. i could be wrong and he has to answer these guys. >> that's my point. we need to get answers. >> the larger point is true this is an administration full of people who are absolute swamp dwellers and this is what populace do. the elites are harming people even though a lot of that is imaginary and come to power themselves and they are worse than anything they sold the people. >> populace. >> i would say i believe
populace as such. look. >> you really believe that? >> i do. we tend to confuse the word populace with democracy. we have a democracy. it's not populace. populace is this idea you will sell ideas to the people like the wall, like a muslim ban, these things that are fantasies that you're not going to be able to do in our system and if you did, they wouldn't solve the problems but inspire fear and play on people's prejudices. that's what they do. they are worse in the populace, i tell you. >> let me -- >> yeah. >> the word that actually has been swirling in my brain because i've been thinking a lot about my studies in college a long time ago studying ladtin american studies and the slip into athor tuthority.
she was very outspoken about the police presence and violence and now she's dead so i'm thinking what people in brazil are feeling in this moment of my god, this feels like our slip into -- >> although. >> yes. >> brazil also stands in the other direction. >> yes. >> for me, whoa is it much worse there. what happened there with the duly elect leader and levels of street violence. when you come back to the u.s. and think about what the institutions have done and held, it feels like a -- >> it does but we're talking about this when you were just talking about possible threats of violence against stormy daniels. >> true. >> no, that's true. that's a serious thing. >> we're also talking about certain immigrants documented with or without documents who are being targeted as we speak tonight. >> when we think about the trump administration, it's really interesting. the populace billionaire, right?
you just described is a kind of standard worry, critique of democra democracy, there is this worry that the mass, that the unlearned mass will threaten the power, right? so we get here. i'm reminded that moment in walt whitman's haulness at the heart of present moment where business elites are robbing the public coffers and selfishness and greed have over run the country, a corruption of men and the state that leads to a corruption of the national soul. that's not the possession of populace but elite who think they can exploit people's fears to let me again, fill the pots. >> in terms of this ability of trump to paper this over, it does have an affect. these ethics scandal matterme.
people do care that, you know. >> you can't hide it. >> you can't hide it. >> we have to remember the guy is at 40% approval and didn't win the popular vote. so, you know, in terms of who got swindled here. >> look, i'll say this topic of populace, acre dem hiademics ar populace is. one of the most accepted is populism as a political tactic, not a philosophy. populism often becomes a tactic of authoritarians or nationalist or socialist and that's the reality. it doesn't mean we shouldn't confuse yes, there is corruption and there can be corruption at the top and the wealthy can take advantage of the poor and yes, the rights of the majority are that we are majority rule and we have, the minority has rights that cannot be infringed upon. >> the question is how strongly those institutions hold when you look at other places.
>> you didn't get to talk about the high schoolers. >> don't forget, if you missed the beginning of tonight's show, you can listen to it any time by downloading the "all in" pod cast. it will be available in about half an hour. the rachel maddow show starts now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening. chris. fun night. >> interesting. >> yes, yes, well done. nice to see you, have a great weekend. thanks to you at home for joining us. happy friday. the national security advisor to the president of the united states did not get fired today and that counts as both news and a surprise because the white house sparked 1,000 headlines last night in a raft of competing scoops all day today about the president's intentions to fire the national security advisor h.r. mcmaster and honestly, i have very little -- say i have very little appetite. i have no appetite