tv MSNBC Live With David Gura MSNBC March 17, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
consultants exploited the facebook data of millions. "new york times" reporter will join us with the latest. we begin with president trump's personal attorney calling for an end to the russian investigation, john dowd releasing this statement. quote, i pray that acting attorney general rosenstein will follow the brilliant and courageous example of the fbi office of professional responsibility and attorney general jeff sessions and bring an end to the alleged russia collusion investigation manufactured by mccabe's boss james comey based upon a fraudulent and corrupt dossier. that, about 12 hours after attorney general jeff sessions fired deputy director of the fbi andrew mccabe. mccabe had, quote made an unauthorized disclosure to the news media and lacked candor, including under oath, on multiple occasions.
>> ned price, former special assistant to president obama and nbc national security analyst. with me is carrie johnson, justice correspondent and terrorism analyst and author of "plot to hack america: how putin spies and wikileaks tried to steal the 2016 election." carrie, there was a reporting from ap earlier that andrew mccabe kept interaction. buzzfeed now reporting that he gave those memos to robert mueller. conducting the investigation into russia's interference in the presidential election. help us understand the import of that, if what's being reportd is true, that there were these memos and are now in possession of the special counsel. >> sure i have confirmed for npr that mccabe wrote these contemporaneous notes and memos about his interactions with president trump, interactions in which president trump allegedly called mccabe's wife a loser and
made other derogatory comments but also notes that back up what jim comey told congress and robert mueller about the events before and after his firing. so, those documents could be one more piece of evidence to support what comey has been saying all along, what mccabe now appears to be saying, that they were both fired, at least in part, because of the russia investigation. that will go to the state of mind of the president and help to develop further evidence of possible obstruction of justice in the firing of comey and maybe others last year. >> a lot depends on a red wheelbarrow. how big of an issue is that for you as this all plays snout we haven't seen the documents, not public. >> we're getting into the weeds here. people want to see the inspector general's report. this creates another he said, she said situation, interpretation of whether he assisted in disadvantaging hillary clinton, which i guess is the accusation that's going
on here. what's more important is that this is an attempt to silence an fbi officer who has served this nation well and punish him 48 hours before his retirement. is that meant to send a signal to everybody else inside the fbi? if that's the case you have a clear case of obstruction of justice here. >> in the possession of the special counsel, according to carrie's reporting and other reporters as well. what might he do with them? we highway similar circumstance here with the memos james comey drafted about his interactions with the president of the united states. how important is it in your estimation? >> they're absolutely critical. if the president had inappropriate conversations with andrew mccabe or other people in the white house had inappropriate conversations it's been report bid reince priebus months ago. all of those conversations could go to potential obstruction of
justice case f you're bob mueller, what you're trying to do is piece together the strongest piece of evidence. if you're in a situation where there are he said, she said accounts of the conversation, andrew mccabe telling one version, the president of the united states telling another version, the fact that he wrote contemporaneous memos will go a long way in the same way that james comey wrote contemporaneous memo s. attesting to the voracity of what he said especially when you put it up against the account of someone like the president who, let's be honest, not always faithful to the truth. >> the allegation here leveled by jeff sessions last night is that andrew mccabe showed a lack of candor under oath. how important is it for, one, to exemplify that, the seriousness of that allegation. >> david, it's a good question. before we go into that it's important it take a step back
and emphasize what you just said. this was jeff sessions' explanation tochlt reiterate what you've said on this panel, we haven't seen the ig report and don't know the factual basis for allegations contained in the sessions statement that was issued overnight. and we need not look that far back in history to find an example of the white house giving a very different account than someone in the know when it comes to an administration firing. rex tillerson was fired the state department put out a very different statement of events than what we heard from the white house and the state department official who offered what seems to be the more accurate account was fired for doing so. when you're the deputy director of the fbi and at one time the acting director of the fbi you have to be held to the highest standards. so, we should be able to take a close look -- we need to be able to take a close look at what the inspector general actually found. clearly, if there was lying under oath, that is a serious, grave issue. and it certainly would have a
bearing on mccabe's fbi tenure. we just don't know the facts. we're going on exclusively what we've heard from attorney general sessions. >> carrie johnson, are we likely to learn the facts? is this going to see the light of day? what's your sense of the role that andrew mccabe will play in this russia investigation going forward? >> we'll see some of the facts. inspector general at the justice department, michael horowitz told congress he expects to make public his report in march or april. sometime in the next two to four week we'll see most of this report. mccabe, for his part, seems to suggest he is a witness in the ongoing russia investigation and seems to suggest as well that the president is trying very hard to discredit him, to try to erode further -- erode credibility and the status of the special counsel probe and the people doing that work. he doesn't seem at all to want to be silent. in fact, he's speaking out now after more than a year, he says, of abuse by the president, abuse not just of him but also of his
family. i expect that to continue and revelations that he has taken notes, i don't think, are the only revelations he is keeping in his back pocket right now. >> along those lines, you look at andrew mccabe's statement. it's long and detailed. he is one component part of this larger assault on law enforcement. what's the state of federal law enforcement at this point after being subjected to so many tweets, so many disparaging remarks from the president and offhand remarks, how is law enforcement doing as a result of all that? >> fine. if you look at the president's tweet this morning, he always clearly delineates the difference between the people he's attacking personally and the rank and file law enforcement officers. that's a clever little trick that he learned where he thinks he can keep these people who, by the way, are part of his base. last year the fbi, most bureau guys were pretty much in the trump camp. by going after individuals
there, he is going after people who have true power as to whether he, in fact, carried out some criminal activity and he is trying to stop, as hard as he can, these investigations. >> i'm going to read from that tweet before i go to you, matt miller. president trump tweeting andrew mccabe fired, all cap, great day for the hardworking men and women of the fbi, a great day for democracy. sanctimonious james comey was his boss and made mccabe look like a choir boy. he knew all about the lies and corruption going on at the highest level of the fbi. are we starting to see some bleeding between the two sides? is that distinction less easy to see? >> i don't think the president can have it both ways. you talk to justice department people at the fbi, they have been really incensed by the president's behavior over the last year, attacks on comey, attacks on mccabe and attacks on the work that the department is doing. if you take a step back, the
president's behavior is precisely why it's so hard to have faith and confidence in the way to fire mccabe the way they did. it's hard to know whether it was justified or not. when we finally do see it, it may well be that discipline was important, that he did need to be disciplined in some way. i can tell you, i have never seen the department rush something like this, rush a decision out before the inspector general report has been released, rush it out two days before he has been fired. and the decision made by the attorney general who really should have been recused from this matter in the first place. mccabe is being disciplined for his conduct in an underlying investigation into hillary clinton, whether he told the truth about that. jeff sessions is recused from that underlying investigation. i don't know why he stayed involved in this unless it was because he wanted to impress the president who, as we know, has been unhappy with the way sessions has performed his job and has wanted him out. >> last question to you. i'm going to go back to that statement from john dowd, the president's personal attorney.
he prayed that the acting attorney general rosenstein will follow the brilliant and courageous example of the fbi, et cetera, there. is this a big turning point when you look at how the president's legal team is representing him, making the kind of attack in that statement he made first to the daily beast this morning and then other news outlets, including nbc as the morning wore on? >> it's a bold statement by the president's attorney i think this will have the opposite effect. rather than encouraging rod rosenstein, i think it will encourage him to double down. we have to remember that andy mccabe's mediocre rise in the fbi started under fbi drkter bob mueller. he has known andy mccabe for years. bob mueller set andy mccabe on the fast track. he knows what a stand-up guy andy mccabe has been during his tenure at the fbi. so i think these attacks on andy mccabe will ring somewhat hol w
hollow. bob mueller and his team, including deputy general rod rosenstein will take a close look at the inspector general report, take into account the facts that are presented, the facts we do not yet know. if there is a credibility problem with and drew mccabe, of course, they'll take that into account. they have a long historic basis on which to judge him at present. that will rule the day until they learn otherwise. >> carrie, last question to you. the offices -- few people have covered the department of justice for as long and as detailed ways as you have. what is the office of professional responsibility, the role of the inspector general within the justice department, the role that they play in that whole organism and sort of what their recommendations are. >> these are career officials for the most part, inspector general requires senate confirmation. michael horowitz has worked for both republicans and democrats, run a public corruption unit in a prosecutor's office, highly regarded inside congress and the
department. robert ashton who leads the office of professional responsibility makes these calls about lawyer discipline in the department. that process is a lot more secret and subject to privacy concern concerns that said i have no reason to believe she rejected the fbi opr recommendation that mccabe, indeed, deserved discipline. the question is why it got all the way to the attorney general and whether the president was exerting some pressure on the attorney general to move quickly to deprive mccabe of his pension, health insurance and other benefits. >> thank you all very much. matt miller, carrie johnson, ned price and nance miller on set with me. porn star stormy daniels, will the latest legal action finally silence the adult entertainer?
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it is clear as day. it is part of the process by which they want to muzzle my client. we think we have good arguments as to why this case doesn't belong in arbitration. we're going to submit those arguments, whether it be to the federal court judge or the state court judge. >> stormy daniels' attorney earlier today, saying he is ready for battle as the legal wrangling against his client gets ramped up to the next level. new reporting as president trump's personal lawyer says daniels may have to pay up to $20 million if she violates her
terms of her confidentiality agreement with the commander in chief. michael avenatti says that his client has faced physical threats. danny cevallos, nbc legal analyst and maya, let me get started with you. moving this up to the federal level, what's changed as you see i it? >> donald trump has officially associated himself with this incident because he is named in this proceeding moving it to the federal court. it's a tactical advantage that he is try to have here, thinking it's a more favorable court to get this case back into arbitration. he wants to be in arbitration where the proceedings will be held, you know, confidential. details would not come out. also he does not want to be in a court where he would be subject
to deposition, discovery, other documents that would have to be produced and so being in federal court is not good for him. being in an arbitration situation would be better for him. you started the segment mentioning the threat of physical violence, physical threats that were mentioned by miss clifford's attorney. i think that's really troubling. we would want to know more about that. obviously that is the situation, if that occurred during the time that she was being pressed tlos sign a nondisclosure agreement, it would be grounds for invalidating the agreement but even if it occurred later criminal liability, criminal threat can be prosecuted on its own. we want to hear more about that. i suspect we will hear more about that with the 60 minutes interview. >> danny, maya laying out the
risks of this playing out in open court. how high is the bar for stephanie clifford and her attorneys to keep this out of arbitration, in other words, to make this play out in open court? >> clifford's team has strong facts on their side it would seem. it may be the case that trump, cohen and ec consultants has the law on their side. here is why. for many years federal and state courts have strongly favored enforcing arbitration clauses. when the parties agree to ash trait, the court will not get involved. plus, david, it clears up court dockets. they love sending cases out of their room and into private arbitration. and, after all, although mr. trump may not have signed the agreement it's clear that stephanie cliffords did sign an agreement to ash trait. if you read the terms of the contract, david dennisson has
the right to determine arbitration. but ec is the one who is the one who asked that this be in arbitration. >> cautionary tale there. let me turn to you and ask about this $23 million threat. that's what's being alleged that she would have to pay $1 million for each time she violate this nondisclosure agreement. how worried should she be about this? >> another aspect is whether or not the provisions of the nondisclosure agreement were fair or whether they were, perhaps, unconscionable. certainly one of the facts relevant to that is that, you know, in return for $130,000 of consideration, she signed an agreement that could subject her to a $1 million penalty for each, potential violation of the agreement. and so it remains to be seen
whether that provision would be upheld. it's not a real great look for the president of the united states to actually be as -- you know, as you mentioned, threaten ing a private citizen with a lawsuit upwards of $20 million. i don't think that's necessarily surprising of behavior of donald trump. >> i see you shaking your head, danny. >> i respectfully disagree. this is a notice of removal. it contains the $20 million to satisfy the amount in controversy so that the federal court can even exercise jurisdiction which, by the way, it will have all of 15 minutes of which the trump team will file a motion to remand it back into arbitration. they will never assert a claim for $20 million. they would have to try the case on damages before a jury and be subjected to discovery. which i think we agree, discovery is a very, very bad thing. i would use the word cataclysmic
for trump, cohen and ec consultans if this stays in court. the only path to victory for trump, et al, is to keep this in secret arbitration. that's it. >> maya harris, danmy cevallos, thank you. memos of mccabe now in the hands of special counsel robert mueller. man:the world made war,rry. my parents made love. and i screamed into life. ♪ did mom give me too much freedom? did dad make me lust for too great an adventure? my scars and bruises tell their own story.
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what guides me is ensuring that the public is going to be safer and that these forests can be sustained and enjoyed by the community in the future. welcome back, i'm david gura. the story continues to unfold. according to the associated press, andrew mccabe maintained memos contemporaneously, involving donald trump. robert mueller has those memos and we're learning that mccabe has lawyered up following last night's blindside. now trump's personal lawyer is calling for an end to robert mueller's probe. i want to start with a tweet, many people talking about this. former attorney general eric holder, analyze mccabe firing on two levels.
the substance and the timing. we don't know enough about the substance yet. the timing appears cruel and a cave that compromised doj independence to please an increasingly erratic president who should have played no role here. this is dangerous. felipe, let's start with the substance. do you agree with attorney general holder that there's not much here yet? >> i do. i would split it the same way. on the human level this is vindictive, short of sadistic. on the political substantive level it's flat out transparent. you would think that donald trump would learn from these firing stunts that they don't go the way he thinks. i'm sure he feels very good about andy mccabe being fired right now. he also felt good about jim comey being fired and that soon blew up in his face this runs the risk of the same thing. he has clearly influenced the process, irrespective of what we learn andrew mccabe did or doesn't, the president made clear months ago that he wanted
mccabe gone. i don't think there's an inspectors general specific twitter system where they don't see this stuff. they're not immune to pressure. he cannot fire his way out of his legal problems or his political problems. >> michael, can you look at this with substance on the one side and timing on the other? >> absolutely. i mean, it was two days before the guy retired. i think that's problematic within itself. the premise of the firing, at least coming from the attorney general is that he was fired based upon the recommendations of the oig office of the inspector general, that report specifically related to mccabe needs to be released. the public needs to be able to read through that report and come to a conclusion on their own based on the legitimacy of this firing. the president made this a heck of a lot worse, david. when he sends out tweets he politicizes it. it almost looks as if it's a
political attack on mccabe based upon the president's wishes. i think mueller team will be looking into this, wondering whether or not the attorney general caved under pressure from the president and fired mccabe. that's extremely problematic. >> react to one of the tweets, shermichael responding to them. the fake news is beside themselves that mccabe was caught, call ed out and fired. how many hundreds of thousands of dollars was given to wife's campaign by crooked h friend, terry m, who was also under investigation? how many lies? how many leaks? comey knew it all. they're referring to jill mccabe who sought state office, lost that race, called a loser by the president of the united states. what do you make of the way that the president is continuing this narrative today? >> he's making it clear what his intentions are. i don't understand why he doesn't make it crystal clear. he didn't like andy mccabe and has not since he inherited him from jim comey being deputy. he didn't like him when he made
him acting director. he chose not to make him permanent director. he met mccabe and did another one of these loyalty who did you vote for checks. i don't understand why he makes it so tough. fire him six months ago, a year ago. doing it two days before -- he acts like there's an expiration date on obstruction of justice. law and order svu i watch enough to know there is none. mueller is sitting there saying okay, i've got another witness. you know, when people fire employees, they like to keep them happy on the way out. boy, does he kick them in the shins as hard as possible and practically gives them the notepad to, here, right down everything i said to you that will come back and haunt me. >> shermichael i would like to ask you the degree to which these firewalls have been eroded. the president is constantly talking or tweeting, influencing the conversation that we're having here in new york, washington, d.c., the conversation across the country
as well. what's the structural integrity of those firewalls today? they're supposed to exist. it was supposed to be decision made by the attorney general jeff sessions on his own with the advice of career officials there at the doj. >> i think they are nonexistent. it's almost, david, as if we are link in a realtime reality show where the president is writer, director and producer. he is his own adviser, his own attorney general. that is not the way politics works in this country. there is a reason why we have departments that are separate from the white house. those individuals work for the american people, not the president. and i don't think he recognizes that. i don't think he understands that there's a degree of separation and it exists to avoid many of the problems that we're experiencing and witnessing to date. again the president is his own worst enemy. every time he makes a comment about it. every time he tweets, he gives mueller's team another inclination, another reason to look further into him and some
of his associates. >> felipe, last question to you. we're hearing a lot about inspectors general these days in the context of hud, secretary carson and the dining set that he allegedly approved. we await this report from the inspector general. how much is their autonomy, nonpartisan stature threatened by all of this. >> you know, they don't have much of a nonpartisan stature to begin w there's a misnomer about inspectors general which i have firsthand knowledge of. not just of our e-mail investigation but prior to that. they are career people who, in the sense of the state department, rotate in and out of that department no differently than rotating in and out of the embassy in costa rica. their loyalties are often to people not to the institution or the process. and i'm very wary -- if you look at -- i don't know enough about the doj or fbi inspector general to make a comment. but if you look at them across
the government, they do have political leanings. and it's a real problem. and, again they are not immune to political pressure, that they won't see advancement hindered or helped and they're aware of that. >> phillipe, thank you for the time and to shermichael as well. >> thank you, david. ousting the deputy director of the fbi on the eve of his retirement after a 21-year career. it's a busy week in the west wing. who could be next on notice as the administration embraces what the president calls change? later, a whistleblower speaks out. hear from the worker who exposed what may be the largest social media data leak in history. dad! can you drive me to jessica's house? (groans) ♪ "welcome to my house" by flo rida ♪
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director of the fbi andrew mccabe fired. andrew mccabe fired back saying the mofb was an attempt to discredit him as a witness in the russia probe and vowed to no longer be silent. ap is reporting that personal memos were kept about the president and were turned over to robert mueller. that, according to "the wall street journal" as well w mccabe out, h.r. mcmaster, john kelly and jeff sessions could be next in line to go. writing that article for vanity fair and msnbc contributor joins me now. let me start with the news of the day. on perilous footing there, how does this change that scenario that he did go ahead and fire andrew mccabe who had the ire of the president this many months? >> clearly, had he not fired mccabe that would have been more perilous for sessions. the fact that he did do what trump wanted buys him more time. the core issue that doesn't go away is the fact that he's still
recused from overseeing the mueller probe and doesn't have the authority to shut it down, clearly what he wants, as evidenced by the comments his attorney john dowd made earlier to the daily beast. >> so much has happened since we talked last week. >> yeah. >> that it was the president returning to himself and running the administration the way he wants to. we looked to see if, in fact, anyone would be asked to leave this administration. what's your sense of where things stand amid all the reporting? >> there is a dynamic go iing o that will make for a roller coaster ride over the next several weeks or months. two things are happen iing. mueller is closing in on donald trump. we know from a report that he has subpoenaed documents from the trump organization. at the same time, the president is becoming more involved and more confident in his role as president. and so as we see by evidence of pushing to get mccabe fired, we now know from my reporting and others that h.r. mcmaster will
be on the way out, john kelly, jared kushner and ivanka. the president is seizing the reins of his administration at a time when things are -- >> your piece on the iran deal as a point of disagreement among many people in the administration. is it personality or shalls what the president determines his cabinet, his administration will look like? >> it's hard to untangle the two. personality matters a lot with this president. we know clearly he did not gel with h.r. mcmaster. he thought his briefings were long winded and meandering. he had a great personal chemistry with mike pompeo that helped get him into the state department. personality matters a lot. you can't discount policy. this president has very strong views. while he does change his mind and tweets contradicting things, on certain issues, whether it's the iran deal, immigration or trade, he has very prescribed views and people have not been on board with those views have found themselves on the outs.
>> help us understand the role that mike pompeo plays in this administration and in the president's inner circle. he has been very forthcoming about how he conducts his daily briefing with the president, what the president likes to see, what mike pompeo likes to talk about with the president. we heard fr a little while ago that stands to change as he is confirmed to secretary of state and travels the world. what role does he play to the president? >> the president's desire for simplicity. this president doesn't like to read briefing papers. he likes to get to the point, likes to be entertained. he likes big personalities. rex tillerson did not deliver on those fronts. mike pompeo won him over. as secretary of state, he will have to juggle much more complicated and competing interests. as you pointed out, i think the test will be whether that personal chemistry can can can remain. >> great to speak with you, as always. gabriel sherman joining me here in new york. constantly turmoil it seems it's easy to forget days ago, president trump fired secretary
of state rex tillerson. chief of staff john kelly telling reporters that tillerson was on the toilet when kelly informed him by phone, that, according to the daily beast. my colleague, nicolle wallace. h.r. mcmaster could be the next to go and just this last week he lost his top economic adviser gary cohn over a trade dispute. with me now, bloomberg correspondent and chief economic correspondent and cnbc contributor as well. larry kudlow on the new york stock exchange floor was candid about how often he and president trump talked before this announcement was made. what role does he play? what's their relationship like? >> it's enormously important on the trade front for the white house. got to know him on the campaign trail. helped the tax reform plan and larry is a free trader. he is not a big fan of tariffs or trade wars. the question everybody has and wall street has is, to what
extent will he push back? gary cohn was really aggressive, pushed hard to lighten up some of those tariffs, got carve outs. will he go in there and say we can't pull out of inform nafta so many tariffs on china that they strike back. that whole agenda. the open ended question is, will he do that or tell trump what he wants to hear? >> larry kudlow loves to talk and debate. he has had a tv show, radio show. how will he fit in with wilbur ross, lightheiser who take a more hardline tact when it comes to economic he shalls? >> you're underestimating secretary ross. he fits that personality description in his own unique way as well. to your point, david, and i totally agree, this will be a salesperson in chief for larry kudlow. he will fit right in with an administration that likes the
showmanship. quite frankly this is a role that gary cohn struggled with. perhaps that's why you saw that frequency toward the end. gary cohn is a much more serious type of personality who wanted to get into the policy, wanted to craft more globalist policy that left the administration struggling. but for larry kudlow, i mean, he will fit right in on that front. >> ben white, not an academic economist. >> no. >> was in graduate school, dropped out halfway through getting a masters degree. there's a debate whether you can call him economist. >> chief economist. >> there you go. how much does it matter that he doesn't have the academic background? >> it doesn't matter that much. he has been studying economic and works in various chief economist jobs, was chief economist at bear stearns. his job is not to be the wonky internal economist. they have the cea for that.
his job mainly, kevin is absolutely right about this, to be good on television talking about president donald trump's policies, particularly the supply side of tax cuts, economic growth that's come from that. there's an idea that the white house wants to do another round of tax cuts. i don't think capitol hill will make that happen but at least larry can go out and make the case and say we need to cut the capital gains rate and say this is what trump has done and this is why the economy is getting faster, better, stronger. gary didn't do that. larry will be an external guy to say the economy is doing better and it's president trump who is behind it. that's why the president called him up. i need you to do that job. you look great on tv. you're a handsome guy. he called him up at la cirque and said i'm looking at you on tv right now. boy, you look handsome. >> about the tumult we've seen
at the white house. i hear the speculation that others are going to leave. what's your sense of how happy the president is with all of that, with the chaos he is said to embrace in the business world? does he like the sense of who is coming and going and when? >> he does like it. that is by design. this is reminiscent from when i covered candidate donald trump on the campaign trail with regards to the various iterra iterrations. to corey lewandowski. president's first year am office, various chiefs of staff competing. this president is coming off of -- i'll let folks decide how much we should pay attention to southwestern pennsylvania. and staring down, a couple months away from midterm elections. he likes the idea of having new energy in there. the question becomes from the national intelligence community and the intelligence community world is whether or not when you're having high stakes level of back and forth with the likes
of north korea, david, if this type of new energy is going to facili d facilitate that. last point i can raise is we could talk about bob mueller's investigation. secretary mnuchen's sanctions announce this had week on russia with more than a dozen russian entities and businesses put forth a lot of them were double dealers in terms of a lot of those names that were named were also named in indictments in the bob mueller investigation. perhaps that, david, is an admission on behalf of the administration that there are elements that ought to be taken very seriously. >> ben white, these were a long time coming. >> yes. >> few weeks back secretary mnuchin was talking about these coming out. kevin just said this hunger for new blood, change within the white house. you're talking to people in business. how much enthusiasm is there in light of what happened with gary cohn and others to joining this administration? how difficult a situation is this white house in when it
looks at the private sector as a place it might want to draw talent from? >> enthusiasm level is zero. larry is very well aware he'll have to deal with bizarre dynamics. in the reagan white house things were not the same. backbiting, fighting, leaking. he has to navigate that. he said it's an opportunity to serve, push my ideas so he wanted to do it. you're not going to go to jp morgan, goldman, morgan stanley and find a bunch of economists or executives eager to get into this administration. just not going to happen. they watch the show like the rest of us, seeing a president tweeting about firing top members of the justice department, attacking the top law enforcement in the country, suing a porn star for $20 million. had is not something that they want to get involved in. they'll happily take their tax cuts and economic growth. don't want to serve this president. >> thank you for your time this afternoon. >> happy saet. patrick's day.
>> thank you. i like the tie. >> no green, gura. come on. exploit millions of profiles to help get president trump elected. the whistleblower speaks out in an interview you have to see and will see here on msnbc. more than half of our community have discovered their irish roots... which means your smiling eyes might be irish too. order ancestrydna and find the surprises in you. just $69 through monday. get your kit today.
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a new reporting says a political campaign exploited the personal information of millions of facebook users making it the largest data breach in the social network's history. he had direct contacts with the president, the political adviser steve bannon. we have a portion of that whistle-blower interview on channel 4. it's the first time it's being shown here in the united states. >> what did steve bannon want? >> steve bannon wants it culture-wise. that's what he wanted. we offered him a way to accomplish what he wants to do, which was change the culture of america. >> in a statement friday facebook said an investigation is under way and the accounts of the firm have been suspended. the counsel also advises there was never any leak. joining me is one of "the new york times" reporters on that
piece. let me ask you about that line. they wanted to fight a culture war and rules did not matter. what was he trying to do here? >> listen. what he wants to do is build a tool that could map the personalities of people around the cultures and predicted how they would respond to theising including political advertising. so what happened next is a team headed by chris wilie, he took information from millions of facebook users and used that to create psychological models of people in the entire u.s. >> they wanted him to do that, but they also had to do it. give us a sense of what the upstart firm was trying to do from the very beginning. they made a lot of promises they had to keep. >> that's right, david. so the firm started out by doing
some testing in virginia in 2013, and they felt it was successful and they could predict voters' personalities and politics fairly well, but to scale it up to a national level required some data that was impossible to obtain without huge expense. it would have required polling a huge number of people. so they found a short cut. they found a researchers in britain who had data from facebook who was able to obtain data from facebook and show that they could use all of the likes and the things you liked and followed an responded to on facebook to predicted your personality and letthus build a profile from this information. that was the source of all of it. >> the numbers are startling when you look at the quantity of users, as reported from london.
he was called recently to testify. what are lawmakers looking into and what is going to happen as a result of this? >> in the uk they have strict laws that don't apply in the u.s. they're also looking into allegations that these profiles and the firm were involved in illegal work and finally people in the u.s. are wondering what role did this data play for the trump campaign in 2016. >> it's certainly something robert mueller might be looking into. thank you very much for the time janld coming up in our next hour here on msnbc, the entire interview from that whistle-blower interview will air. do stay with us. we've got drinks for long days. for birthdays. for turning over new leaves. and we make them for every moment in every corner of the country. we are the coca-cola company, and we're proud to offer so much more.
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you can join me again tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m. the news continues right now with my d.c.-based friend aaron gilchrist. >> good afternoon, everyone. it's 4:00 on the east, 1:00 on the west. i'm aaron gilchrist. the latest coming from the "associated press" reporting that mccabe kept personal memos regarding president trump. the a.p. reports the notes are similar to the ones kept by former fbi director james comey detailing interactions with the president and "the wall street journal" reports those memos are