tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC March 23, 2018 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
tomorrow's going to be a really big day. the kids from parkland, florida who survived one of the worst school shootings last month and have been on a tear against gun violence, those kids and others like them are leading a huge march in d.c. tomorrow, hundreds of other marches planned all around the country. msnbc is going to be live all day tomorrow and into the night with special coverage of what is expected to be a big moment in american politics. our politics on this issue can seem stuck sometimes but this part does seem to be on the move. again full coverage live all day tomorrow and into tomorrow night here on msnbc. that does it for us. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell" good evening lawrence. >> good evening. i will be out on the streets tomorrow talking to the students through the march.
some of them will join me in the studio when it's over. i will be doing the 9:00 hour on msnbc with our coverage. but rachel, you stopped me cold in the middle of your tv show tonight when you predicted for us what is going to happen in the news on sunday to overshadow the stormy daniels interview on '60 minutes" do you want to repeat that for the nation? >> purely a guess. looking at the fact that -- so last night there was the interview with karen mcdougal on cnn and 90 minutes before that happened. there was this dramatic announcement from the president that the national security advisor had been fired and was being replaced by john bolton. open speculation, including by people in the white house that that surprise timing was about trying to overshadow that interview. another interview that is probably even higher stakes is planned for "60 minutes" on sunday night.
if that announcement was planned as a distraction, what could we plan to distract from the "60 minutes" sunday, i have a betting pool with my staff, where there's no money at stake, just tacos. the box that i picked is the action will be pardon for michael flynn and the timing will be early afternoon on sunday. and so, i have tacos riding on that. doesn't mean i'm hoping for it. >> one more thing, rachel, does that mean i'm going to have to work on sunday? that sounds like a big story. >> if you're working saturday night, and then that happens on sunday. the problem is you won't get credit. they'll be like he's around, get him in. >> i don't know who you're talking about that could be unfair. i think you'll have to work on sunday, rachel, if your prediction comes true, forget about the rest of the weekend. >> days of the week don't matter
anymore, lawrence. have you looked around recently? >> if it happens, i will join you sunday to talk about that. >> deal, my friend. thanks, lawrence. this is not donald trump's washington. not tonight. not this weekend. the president has fled to florida and the kids from florida have taken over washington. everywhere you go in washington today, tonight and the rest of the weekend, everyone is hoping to catch a glimpse of, have a moment with the kids of margery stoneman high school. the students scheduled their march for our lives for tomorrow and they instantly attracted people from all over the country, including some very famous people who don't normally participate in public protests. the kind of people, the kind of hollywood stars who donald trump really hoped would attend his inauguration. but, of course, they would have nothing to do with that
inauguration. the republican congress made sure that they got out of town before the protesters took over this town. they voted on their massive budget bill yesterday and delivered it to the president for his signature today. and, of course, the president did what he said he would not do. he signed the bill. because this is donald trump and he has no idea what he's doing in the presidency, he promised to sign the bill when it was being negotiated in the house and the senate, and then when the bill was completely finished and ready to be voted on, the president promised paul ryan -- personally promised paul ryan that he would sign paul ryan's bill. and then the president started hearing complaints about the deficit spending in the bill on fox news and so then, because of his bum bling incompetence, because that incompetence knows no bounds, the president
threatened to veto the bill on twitter this morning after the house and senate voted on it. he said i am considering a veto on the spending bill based on the fact that the 800,000 plus daca recipients have been totally abanned by the democrats. and the border wall, which is desperately needed for our national defense is not fully funded. not only was it not fully funded, it was not funded at all. the president wants $25 billion to fund his wall. this bill has $1 million for secondary fences and repairs to the current structures, which are mostly fences. but the bill does not provide for building any new structures. not one foot of the wall. and when rush limbaugh watched
the president sign that bill, he didn't feel very good. >> i'm not liking the way i'm feeling. i'm feeling like i just saw donald trump get on the escalator and go back up. >> during the campaign, donald trump promised rush limbaugh and everyone he tricked into voting for him that what happened today would never happen. donald trump would always dictate the terms of legislation he signed because being a winner deal maker with the congress would be just so easy. >> we need a leader that wrote the art of the deal. >> lots of wonderful deals, great deals. that's what i do. >> i do hundreds of deals. the deals come out of my ears. >> if you can't make a good deal with a politician, then there's something wrong with you. you're certainly not very good. >> certainly not very good. and here, here is what the president said today the about the bill that he promised to
sign then threatened to veto and then signed. >> there are a lot of things that i'm unhappy about in this bill. there are a lot of things that we shouldn't have had in this bill, but we were, in a sense, forced if we want to build our military we were forced to have it. i say to congress, i will never sign another bill like this again. i'm not going to do it again. nobody read it. it's only hours old. >> nobody read it. that's his complaint. donald trump famously is incapable of reading. just can't stand reading. donald trump certainly didn't read it and now he's angry because everyone else followed the president's lead on this one and didn't read it before they made up their minds about it. as the president was leaving the bill signing of the bill that he threatened to veto before he signed it and then complained about it, he was asked about the two most important women in his
life this week. >> thank you all very much. >> about the affair? >> and that moment shows once again how donald trump is the worst strategist and worst presenter of self in the history of the american presidency. if you're going to be a politician at any level, never mind the presidency. if you're going to be the mayor of the small town where the best thing for you to say, the only thing for you to say is nothing. silence. that means you have to be prepared to walk away from questions to ignore challenges. but donald trump has never done that. donald trump has always fought back against everything said about him that he does not like. always. except for when he is afraid. the only time donald trump uses silence is when he is abjectly terrified of saying a single
word. and i cannot say that about any other politician. because other politicians are smart enough to use silence in a variety of ways so that we usually don't know what the silence actually means. but donald trump has foolishly turned silence into a tell. donald trump's silence always tells us exactly what he's feeling. and that feeling is terror. donald trump is not just afraid of stormy daniels. he is terrified into silence by her. donald trump is not just afraid of karen mcdougal. he is terrified into silence by her. karen mcdougal is a former playboy model who allegedly had an ongoing romantic sexual affair with donald trump at the same time that donald trump was allegedly sexually involved with the porn star stormy daniels. and i'm not sure how the word allegedly got into the
teleprompter there. but last night karen mcdougal said that donald trump said, i love you, to her many, many times. donald trump was saying i love you to karen mcdougal just months after his third and current wife gave birth to his fifth child. and karen mcdougal says he often mentioned his first daughter, who was born to his first wife. >> did he ever compare you to any of his kids? >> you know, he -- he's very proud of ivanka. as he should be. i mean, she's a brilliant woman, she's beautiful. that's his daughter and he should be proud of her. he said i was beautiful like her. and, you know, you're a smart girl. there wasn't a lot of comparing, but there was some. i heard a lot about her, yeah. >> in a report in the wall street journal tonight, one
white house official said, quote, never been this wild. don mcgahn is 49 going on 100. he gets home late every night as white house counsels do. he doesn't spend as much time as he should with his children, which is always true of white house counsels who have young children. but every other white house counsel has taken time away from their kids, in the service of a presidency they believe in. don mcgahn is doing it for donald trump. don mcgahn reportedly threatened to resign when donald trump tried to fire the special prosecutor, robert mueller. inside accounts of the white house show don mcgahn in constantly near panicked stressful situations trying to prevent the firing of the attorney general and other legally wreckless moves by a president accused of obstruction of justice because of things the president did his very first days in office. so it comes as no surprise that
politico is reporting tonight president donald trump's top white house lawyer, don mcgahn, is expected to step down later this year, though his resignation is contingent on the president find ago replacement and several other factors. i think it's all up in the air. i think he'd like to quit very much. he'll have many regrets when he quits. chief among them will be why didn't he quit sooner. joining us now ruth marcus and maria tracie macara. i want to go back to something donald trump said today when he was angrily signing the bill he thought about vetoing after he promised to sign. and he talked about how the democrats have forgotten, they don't care about the daca kids, which is his way of saying i'm
angry i didn't get money for the wall. >> that's right. the reason the daca kids are in the predicament they are in is he decided cruelly and unusually on december 5th he was going to rescind data cambridge analyt a rescind daca and the courts decided he dent doesn't have the power to do that. the democrats went up three times and provided him what he wanted, which is funding for the wall in exchange for daca relief, instead he decided he doesn't want to. if he wants to have daca all he has to do is pick up the phone, call paul ryan, there was three, four different pieces of legislation that he could put it to the floor but he decided not to have that sort of leadership that he claims he wants, and congress -- unfortunately congress could care less about the fate of the young people. it's irresponsible. >> ruth, a faithful listener of
rush limbaugh texted me today the moment rush said it's as if trump went back up the escalator. >> i love that image. if we could roll it back and have it gliding back up and pretend this all never happened. >> it's one of the worst things rush could say. at any moment in the trump presidency basically saying it's all been for nothing or donald trump has given up on what he came down that escalator to do. >> because donald trump over promised. that's his m.o. throughout his career. he tells you what he needs you to believe to try to convince you to do whatever deal he's trying to sell you and then he doesn't deliver it and then he gets other people to bail him out and manages to go on to his next deal. and that's what he did with this. you were talking about donald trump's tell before. one of his tells is, he's accuse -- when he accuses his
opponent, he's accusing him of something he does himself. so when he accuses the democrats of not caring about the daca kids we know who doesn't care about the d daca kids. i'm thinking about the puppet, puppet, you're the puppet moment during the debates with hillary clinton. that's another one of his tells. >> rush limbaugh didn't talk about all of the things that we just talked about in the introduction and rush limbaugh has been married i think a little bit more often than donald trump so he's not going to go into these stories about the women that have been getting bigger and bigger all week, but there's a weight, a publically observable weight to being a trump cheerleader and today you could see that weight was very heavy for rush limbaugh it was hard to carry the weight of being a trump supporter. >> again this idea to reverse and go back in time is saying
let's go back to that point. because he dint want the chaos. it speaks to a larger problem the republicans have, the voters, they don't like this chaos, the feeling of instability, so when we see a wave election, even in pennsylvania for example, where it was gerrymandered to be for a republican and have a democrat win, that is telling us the american people, regardless of party, they don't like the instability. >> ruth, don mcgahn wants out, big surprise. the notion in this leak about him wanting to resign, the idea he's going to wait until the proper replacement is found, it's hard -- >> bring in the victim. >> first of all they're not lining up for this job and it's hard for me to believe that he would actually feel the need to wait that long if it takes that long. >> well, it -- i'm having a hard time actually generating a lot of sympathy for don mcgahn.
he kind of new what he was getting into. he signed up for it. he enabled an enormous about of it. i have a particular dog in this fight because i wrote this week about the nondisclosure agreements -- >> not just wrote, you got the scoop, the most extraordinary scoop about what's going on in there, that donald trump thought this was like trump tower i can make everyone sign nondisclosure agreements. mcgahn helped come up with what he thought were uninforcible pieces of paper. >> this is the grait great thing to say about him, having lost this fight to have this nondisclosure agreement, maybe he drew up one, not what you want in white house counsels. i've known a lot of white house counsels, big disappointments. but as with everyone else, it
could be worse. >> he has been efficient. he's the head of deregulation. the one that has placed and really identified the bench for the next 20 years by placing young judges in federal benches. so he came in to do what he wanted and that is unravel the institution of the federal government we have. >> thanks for being with us. coming up, steve bannon says the president is ready for war with the special counsel robert mueller now. and we know that the new national security advisor is ready for war with north korea. and we know the president needs to distract from all the stories from all the women he has had relationships with, just during his third and current marriage. we're not considering anything before that. we'll consider that combustible combination coming up. later we're joined by the student who confronted senator marco rubio and has provoked the
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against the special prosecutor. but with john bolton joining the white house as the national security advisor there's talk of an actual shooting war. last night they said to get the job of national security advisor john bolton promised trump, quote, he wouldn't start any wars. by this morning, it was tweeted a source close to john bolton tells me he made no promise to trump that he wouldn't start any wars contrary to reports. not true, wasn't discussed, the source says, from jonathan swan. richard hosz summed it up this way. donald trump is now set for war on three fronts political versus bob mueller, economic versus china others on trade, and actual versus iran and/or north korea. joining us now tom nickels a professor and author and also
with us betsy woodruff a politics reporter and msnbc contributor. i want to get your reaction to the possible shooting war that's reduced to twitter exchanges with john bolton and did he really have to promise not to get us in a war. >> john bolton can't start any wars on his own. there's nobody in his chain of command. he doesn't command the state department, the cia. what he can do is convince the president that military action is important and that starts that ball rolling. but then a lot of other people get their say. john bolton can't go to war by himself but he can make the military conflict more likely by the kind of advice he gives the president. which is the advice i think he's going to give the president. >> betsy, this president saw
what kind of distraction firing missiles can be when he did it in syria and this is someone who needs distraction. there's open distraction about what kind of distraction what he might want to sunday to distract from stormy daniels. >> that's correct. you have to add to the fact there was at least one person standing in the gap between donald trump and mueller and that was, against all odds john dowd, the former attorney for his personal legal team who stepped down. it was an eccentric, sometimes surprising character, to say the least, but he was an important figure in keeping the president from interviewing with mueller. at the same time dowd was a supporter of the probe. he said if only he coopt rated with mueller, good things would happen. when mueller handed down the indictment, dowd told me he
thought mueller was doing a hell of a job. now dowd is gone, that's one less person sticking up for mueller, that's a change. >> there was a criminal defense lawyer who basically supported normal procedures that all criminal defense lawyers would follow in representation of a client in this situation. he's someone that stands apart from the foreign policy establishment, you made an interesting point about him, tom, that i haven't read anywhere else because we've been talking about john bolton's favoring what we would call -- many of us have been calling pre-emptive c pre-emptive war with north korea, a pre-emptive strike with north korea. you're distinguishing what we call pre-emptive and preventive and there's a difference. can you take us into that. >> sure.
there's a huge difference between them. pre-emptive is anticipatory self-defense. preventive war, that's kind of a strangling the baby in the cradle war. that's getting way ahead of the problem and taking what might be a war and making it a war. that's japan tacking the united states in 1941. that's us attacking iraq because we're worried about what they could do in five or ten years. and it's a very, very dangerous business. the statesman bismark once equated it to committing war out of fear of death. it requires you to think ahead of as everyone in the world is your enemy, which is the way bolton views the world. >> there are many uses of presidential credibility, none more important than in national defense, national security.
if you had a president of the united states leading what would be called either a preventive or pre-emptive strike of some kind on north korea, you would want the credibility that this was -- that this was necessary. you would want people to be able to look at this president and believe if the facts were presented that this was necessary. this presidency doesn't have that kind of credibility. >> that's correct. over the course of this presidency and over the course of campaign and trump's time in private life before he was running for office, credibility wasn't his strong suit. he's a long term fan of saying he's going to do things and not doing them. ask the host of women during the campaign who accused him of sexual harassment. he said he was going to sue them, but he didn't sue them. trump doesn't frequently follow through on his tlehreats what tt
means is incredibly consequential. diplomacy only works if people believe that you will follow through on the threats you make. and at that point in trump's presidency, he has scant credibility build up and that's something that's going to present an interesting challenge for his incoming national security advisor. >> thank you both for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. well, we all know where we're going to be on sunday night and that is in front of a tv watching stormy daniels especially after the warning shot that stormy daniels' lawyer fired directly at donald trump here on msnbc tonight. warning shots are supposed to be fired not directly at the target but this one was. wait till you hear what michael avenatti had to say this time.
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warning shot. that's what michael avenatti called his tweet today. a warning shot. michael avenatti is stormy daniels' lawyer. each day he has been representing stormy daniels he has made life more difficult for donald trump and donald trump's lawyers. and today he has no doubt created sheer panic in donald trump's very fragile mind and in the week and fragile mind of michael cohen because of what michael avenatti said on msnbc tonight. you will hear that in a moment but here's what he tweeted late last night. it was a photograph of a dvd if a picture is worth a thousand
words, what's this worth? i was one of many a bit confused by that tweet. and then they said it must have prove a relationship with stormy daniels and donald trump. and then tonight he clarified what his tweet meant in the most painful, possible terms for donald trump. >> let me tell you this, chris, that dvd contains evidence of this relationship. let me tell you why i sent the tweet. i sent the tweet as a warning shot to michael cohen and any other supporter to the president and the president himself to the extent they plan on disparaging my client, lying about what happened or spinning facts that have no basis in reality after this "60 minute" interview, let that tweet be a warning to them. >> warning shots are not supposed to hit anyone, but you
know that warning shot is like nothing that donald trump and michael cohen have ever seen in their years of trying to bully people with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits. since he became a politician, donald trump has discovered there are people he cannot bully that way. when he threatened to sue me, i dared him to do it, begged him to do it, and, of course, he was afraid to sue me. when it comes to crushing michael cohen and donald trump's legal bully, i'm nothing. i'm a rank amateur compared to michael avenatti. we have seen no one like this. no one. it doesn't look like they've met their match in michael avenatti. it looks like they have met the lawyer who can crush them both. so what should we expect from stormy daniels on "60 minutes"
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chris, here's what i'll tell you, the threat was delivered in person, my client is going to describe it in detail on sunday. the american people are going to hear from her, they're going to judge her credibility, it was frightening to her. >> was the threat part of the reason she signed? >> i think absolutely. when the president's fixer exerts pressure on you to sign a
document, you don't ask a lot of questions. you do as you're told. >> joining the discussion now jed lugham and back with us ruth marcus. jed, the threat he's talking about is the threat delivered to stormy daniels, michael cohen specializes in threats like ta. he seemed to be saying there that michael cohen will be exposed on sunday night as having threatened stormy daniels. >> yes. and as far as we know this was a physical threat. i think this is really just another moment where this is spinning out of control for donald trump. >> where is the trump presidency going to be at 8:00 p.m. sunday night after we heard from stormy daniels after already having heard from karen mcdougal this week. >> i think the president is worried about it, and that's why you've seen him ratchet up what is a fairly volatile
personality, he was tweeting out he was going to veto a bill, he said he was going to sign the day before. >> you think that behavior is related to this. >> i think so. you don't know for sure, but i do think he has, for his entire life, had these situations under control. he trusts michael cohen, he's been able to keep them under wraps and as president he's not able to do that. and i think that this has created a real urgency, but what can you do? >> ruth, donald trump didn't understand how presidency and presidential campaign change how much is on the pressure cooker. when you're donald trump the guy with the real estate business and on tv and you're trying to execute agreements like this with people, it's not that hard to do. in the presidency, the pressure cooker makings these things come
out. >> it does. and yet, two words, fifth avenue. short hand for donald trump's famous statement that he could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and his supporters wouldn't care. he has been able -- the presidency is different, you're totally right, but he has been able to get away with things that no other candidate has been able to get away with, "access hollywood" tape, and no other president has been able to get away with. so the thing that's striking as we go into the stormy daniels interview is what happened be very dangerous for another president, he had an affair with this woman, i thought that karen mcdougal was really remarkably credible, just bullet proof credible. we're not any longer having a serious conversation about whether he had an affair with karen mcdougal, asked and answered, whether he had an affair with stormy daniels. i think that's going to be
pretty clear. and how interesting is the way michael avenatti has played all of this. what's really perilous for donald trump is the self-inflicted wound that he created with his fixer, michael cohen, by trying to shut this down in his typical way. because now the problem -- potential problem, very serious potential problem for president trump is where did the money come from to try to pay the hush money to stormy daniels? what money was paid through american media to karen mcdougal? and what kind of threat was there? and that is much more dangerous to him than extramarital dalliance because let's be serious at this point, the evangelicals don't care, the trump supporters don't care. that's not what's doing to bring him down. >> we all remember the trump reaction and public statement about if mueller goes -- wants
to know about my business that's crossing a line. michael avenatti has sent letters to the trump business crossing that line saying he wants to preserve all documents because he intends to subpoena documents from the trump organization about where that $130,000 came from. >> i think that's where this becomes very serious for him. i agree with ruth that people really have this sort of baked into the cake as far as the sex aspect of this. this is his third marriage. i don't think people really had had this idea that he was a pair gone of virtue in this regard. but you do have the issue of the trump organization, you also have the issue of this was going on during an election and this money was being used -- and i think in both lawsuits they bring this up, this money was being used clearly to try to benefit his election and should have been reported.
and in the case of karen mcdougal, could constitute an illegal corporate contribution to his campaign. you add that to what we heard the clip that you just played about a potential threat and this becomes about a lot more than sex. and that's where i think it creates problems. >> the next chapter of the story is sunday night. thank you both. appreciate it. today donald trump left florida and the kids from florida came to washington where they will march tomorrow in protest of the national rifle association's campaign to make sure that america's mass murderers are the best equipped mass murderers in the world. a campaign fully supported by donald trump. your body was made for better things than rheumatiod arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill
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i'm in a closet with 19 other kids waiting, fearing for my own life. now i'd like to ask you, that after me and several others have been going out of their way, going to the state capital, speaking out, we'd like to know why do we have to be the ones to do this? why do we have to speak out to the capital? why do we have to march on washington just to save innocent lives? >> joining us now ryan deutsche
and adam huntley. ryan, that was quite a moment and a question. do you feel you're closer to an answer to that question of why you? why do you have to do this? >> i'm deaf ffinitely closer to answer that marco rubio would ever give us. why would we have to be the ones to march on washington. when you look back all the way to columbine and sandy hook. they're elementary school students gunned down innocently and because they weren't the ones speaking out that means nothing is taken care of, no action is taken, that's ridiculous. now, we have high school students, speaking out their own minds. that's why we're the ones marching. marching on washington in general is because of all this.
because there isn't been action in years and years. >> adam we were talking before we came on how spontaneously this started and how you started on these discussions on tv because a friend of yours was going to do it and they couldn't and they handed it off to you. has it taken a more organized form in the past month? >> i think so. we've been speaking to a bunch of people, we've gotten a lot of help whether it's from our parents or people who do it for a living. we've all gotten a clear role of what we are and what we do for this. >> ryan it's your senior year in high school. you have stuff to do and adam as a junior, that's the most important year in many ways that colleges are going to look at. how has this affected your work as a student? i want to get that from both of
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