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tv   MSNBC Live With David Gura  MSNBC  March 31, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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that's a wrap of this hour. i look forward to seeing you tomorrow.
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but for right now, to philip mena, over to you. >> thank you, alex. a live look now at the russian embassy in washington where 60 russian diplomats expeled from the u.s. are preparing to leave while president trump focuses on amazon. hundreds take to the streets of sacramento demanding justice for stephon clark, a an unarmed man shot and killed by police. plus more questions than answers about that potential meeting between president trump and kim jong-un. when will it take place, where will it take place and will we have a permanent secretary of state in place when it happens? russian diplomats expeled from the u.s. leave for russia and the president tweets again, it is reported that the u.s. post office will lose $1.50 on
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average or each package and delivers for amazon. that amounts to billions of dollars that failing "new york times" reports that the size of the company's lobbying staff has ballooned and that does not include the fake washington post which used as a lobbyist and shouldg so register f the po increased its parcel rates amazon's shipping costs would rise by $2.6 billion. joining us from west palm beach, florida, where the president is spending in florida. what happens the president been up to on saturday, jeff? >> philip, the president has spent much of the day his private golf course here in south florida. as he left his private estate at mar-a-lago on his way to the golf course, he sent these pair of tweets, the ones you just read, the president now attacking amazon for a second time in three days, citing reports he doesn't specify to suggest, as he says, the post office will lose $1.50 for each package it delivers for amazon. there's a lot to fact check and
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a lot to unpack here. i would point out that a source familiar points out to us that when the u.s. postal service writes delivery contracts, including the one with a.mazon, they are written in such a way that they are profitable, have to be profitable by law for the u.s. postal service. on the issue of taxes, the president suggesting that amazon somehow is not paying its fair share, well, there's a patchwork of state and local regulations that dictate whether or not people have to pay additional taxes to amazon when they purchase a product and the notion that the washington post is somehow the lobbying arm of amazon is, on its face, inaccurate. it appears that the president is using the washington post, his attacks, rather, against amazon as a proxy to attack the washington post, given that jeff bezos owns both. those are two separate entities. in terms of policy, the white house tells us not to expect any new regulations or taxes targeted against the online
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retailer. philip? >> jeff bennett for us live in west palm beach for us on this saturday. jeff, thank you. with us now, giddeon resident, karen atia, and dave lawler, associate editor at axios. dave i want to start with you, with that expulsion of russian diplomats. why has the president been so silent on this story? >> it's pretty remarkable. there's a big gap between what his administration has done and taken pretty strong action here and what he has said publicly, which on this issue is basically nothing. there's some reporting today in "the new york times" about how his aides have been pushing for him to take a more forceful stand and that he has been more open to it than perhaps in the past. but still resisting any kind of public statements that vladimir putin wouldn't be happy to hear. >> and karen, russian ambassador to the u.s. said this about relations between the two countries in an exclusive nbc news interview. >> it seems to me that atmosphere in washington is
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pois poison, is poison. it's a toxic atmosphere. >> first of all, do you agree with that assessment and, secondly, what do you make of that? >> i mean, obviously, in the aftermath of the poisoning, the spy poisoning and in london, it just has seemed as if relations were already bad with the allegations of interference in russian election -- in the american elections, that things have just accelerated into a tail spin. you have to wonder about the expulsions of diplomats on both sides, about how this will broadly affect russia and u.s. relations, we're talking about just yesterday, reports that the pentagon, perhaps, was not even aware of icbm missile testing being done in russia. you have to wonder how this is going to affect any sort of coordination in syria, for instance, where russian-backed
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forces are -- and yourself forces are trying to do their utmost to not directly confront one another. so i don't think we've seen the end of this yet. i can imagine especially as incoming secretary of state mike pompeo comes in -- excuse me, john bolton comes in, mike pompeo comes in, two men known to be more hawkish on russia, perhaps we can expect a lot more hostilities to come. >> in the last two weeks alone, the president has fired secretary of state rex tillerson, replaced national security adviser h.r. mcmaster, fired va secretary david shulkin, seen his communications director hope hicks leave the white house. how much does this hurt our standing in the rest of the eye s of the world? >> it complicates it, right? by all accounts the president dictates his own policy even if he has aides telling him where
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they're going to stand on various domestic and foreign polishes. at the end of the day, he is the ultimate arbiter of all the decision making. now you have this sort of reshuffling of the deck once again with a lot of people who have these sorts of very different views on politics that the president himself has represented both in the campaign and in his administration so far. so, it's going to be more of this sort of policy making on the fly again. and we don't really know how those figures, like bolton, like pompeo, are going to come in and actually influence what ends up coming out of this oval office. >> somebody who is still in his oval office, in the administration i'm talking about, epa administrator scott pruitt, we learned paid $50 a night to live in a condo, owned by the wife of a lobbyist last week. how does this hurt pruitt's standing? >> another scandal that's about burgeoning with another administration official. when we first heard these intimations that the president
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was going to replace a number of these cabinet secretaries, it was all based on these scandals that they were just not happy were drawing attention to the white house and these other officials who were not getting credited for their jobs, not getting headlines for what they're working on. we're getting headlines for all these private travel and private trips we're paying. and another one with pruitt and the white house is, frankly, unhappy with what is unfolding there and what has sort of developed with that storyline over the last couple of days or weeks. >> what do you think comes of it, though? do you think he gets to keep his job? >> it's hard to say. very difficult to determine who gets to stay and who gets replaced. and even how they can cajole people to come work in this white house right now. secretary carson at housing and urban development was able to survive that dining furniture fichlt asco over the last couple of weeks. if they manage to keep it at bay, he can stick around. but if it balloons and continues
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and we have these little trickles of story lines where the president and people in the white house are learning it from the press as opposed to from the cabinet secretaries themselves, i think that makes his standing all the more worse. >> and we never know what's going to happen even if trump happens to say he's safe, that could be the kiss of death as well. karen, i want to go back to you. president trump always seems very eager to withdraw from syria, even bringing up the idea during that speech thursday in ohio. nbc news has exclusive reporting that the commanders are worried that the white house chaos could hurt the war on isis with one commander adding, we are on the two-yard line. we could literally fall in the end zone. we are that close to total victory to wiping out the isis caliphate in syria. we are that close and now it's coming aapart. president trump has prided himself on being pro military. what do you make of this? >> the reporting coming out this morning is saying, you know, as
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you mentioned, his advisers are saying that any sort of withdrawal could still give more of a space for isis to regenerate and to basically grow stronger. i think, again, this is part of a sense that trump, perhaps hearing from his advisers that isis is on the backfoot, gives a green light for a quick withdrawal. again, just today, yesterday, trump saying that he's going to review $200 million aid package to syria and put that on hold. again as part of this, perhaps, effort to withdraw. i think all that this would do is potentially, right, strengthen iran, strengthen russia. it doesn't really give the world and our allies any sort of reassurance that we have a president that is really thinking about the long-term
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consequences of any sort of military engagement, particularly in syria. >> dave, let's talk now about the president's ongoing feud with amazon. what's the president's end game here? who has more to lose, the president or amazon? >> the key piece to this is president trump's friends of his who say amazon is hurting their business. this postal service element he mentioned today, my colleague, jonathan swan has reported that people inside the white house have been telling him that's not actually the case, that amazon is not bankrupting the postal service yet he keeps saying it publicly. and then there's the washington post angle as well, jeff bezos is kind of a central figure there. and president trump doesn't seem to be a fan of his, particularly. as far as who has more to lose,
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you know, i don't think amazon is going anywhere. you know, their stock has taken a dive but they're here for the long haul. and president trump will probably move on to another feud at some point soon. >> so, do you think that this is more personal than anything? >> it does seem to be. this is now something he has been talking about privately for a while. he is going publicly with these concerns with amazon and at the center of it seems to be this issue with the washington post. >> how do you see this playing out? >> i think he will keep criticizing amazon probably and i think he'll keep criticizing coverage he sees in the washington post and tying it back with jeff bezos and this claim that he has that there's a lobbying arm for amazon. but, you know, long term, this is not great for amazon to have the commander in chief and somebody who has a lot of controls over the economic levers coming out and criticizing you publicly. we've seen it hurt their stock
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already. i think that this is not something that is kind of a life or death scenario for them. two behemoths playing one high-stakes game of chicken. leaving the russian embassy in dc, dozens of diplomats begin their long journey home. what their expulsion means for relations with russia. try parodontax toothpaste. it's clinically proven to remove plaque, the main cause of bleeding gums. for healthy gums and strong teeth. leave bleeding gums behind with parodontax toothpaste.
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investigators working for bob mueller this week detained and question ed trump ally bob malloch saying agents had permission to seize and search his cell phone and asked questions about his involvement in the trump campaign. they wanted to know more about roger stone and possible contacts with wikileaks founder julian assange. he was served with a subpoena and will be questioned again in mid april. trump's lawyer john dowd raised the possibility of a pardon for paul manafort and michael flynn. attorney general jeff sessions, trump's frequent target, rejecting calls for a second special counsel to look at claims of political bias at fbi and justice department. joining me now, michael carpenter, former russia
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director and former associate counsel to george w. bush, who now teaches at george mason university. before we get to mueller what do you make of this expulsion of russian diplomats from our country? does it counter the talk that he's not tough on russia? >> no. this is not a smart move. whether the positions are backfilled or not, russia will mirror exactly what we do. we've seen it across the board with all the various countries that have expelled russian diplomats. russia simply expels their diplomats from the embassy in russia. the net effect is nil. >> floating a pardon for manafort and flynn. if there's no collusion, no crime, why talk pardons then? >> it's unclear what dowd was thinking. he said he hasn't done that. we'll see how this all plays
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out. it makes no sense. it plays into the ongoing narrative. it's just an odd play and, you know, it's good they didn't actually do it. >> michael, attorney general jeff sessions rejected calls for a second special counsel. let's remember, sessions failed to reveal his contacts with russia's ambassador. what should we make of his role now in this russia story? >> well, i think he's trying to thread the needle here. obviously there's a lot of pressure from republicans in congress to appoint a second special counsel. but, frankly, the claims that they're advancing as far as the fbi's misconduct during the election cycle in its investigation of secretary clinton, i mean, are ludicrous. so i think so far sessions has proven that he's being even keeled, appointing someone with experience in looking into this but has thus far avoided firing the special counsel which is really unnecessary. >> are we getting any closer to the end of the investigation and
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how can we tell? >> i don't think so. we've got a long ways to go here. mueller is a good federal prosecutor, building his case slowly but surely, bringing in witnesses, talking to them, pressuring them with charges he has on them in order to get them to tell him more of what they know. i don't think we're anywhere near close to the end of this thing and have a long way to go. >> always billed as a marathon and not a sprint. gentlemen, thank you. to a major development in two separate police shootings. the outcry as we mark the anniversary of the death of dr. martin luther king jr., a look at his legacy and race relations 50 years later. thank you so much. thank you! so we're a go? yes! we got a yes! what does that mean for purchasing?
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new details about the unarmed 22-year-old killed by sacramento police. independent autopsy shows stephon clark was shot eight times with nearly all the shots striking him from behind and once in the front. officers thought clark was holding a gun but it was revealed instead he was holding a cell phone. steve patterson is live for us in sacramento. how is this community reacting to the autopsy findings? >> reporter: well, philip, you could say there's been an
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outcry, outrage, widespread anger throughout the city. you would be correct. you also have to take into account what's happening behind me. you can hear the speakers over my right shoulder. this gathering started a few moments ago. it is a rally in honor of stephon clark. what we've really seen in the city is organization. we saw this today and saw it last night in light of that autopsy finding. people took to the streets of sacramento to speak out. i want you to hear this right now. overnight a growing call for justice. protesters flooded the streets of downtown sacramento once again, following the death of stephon clark. >> they shot him in cold blood. they need to be brought to justice and we'll be out here every day until that happens. >> reporter: responding to a report of a vandal.
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officers said they thought he had a gun. after firing 20 shoots discovered it was a cell phone. >> he approached us, hands out and fell down. >> reporter: now a doctor, commissioned by clark's family is offering a different account. hit eight times first from the left side near his armpit, spinning him around before he was shot six more times from behind and once in the thigh. >> findings of his autopsy contradict many of the narratives that the sacramento police put forward. >> reporter: the autopsy was performed by dr. bennett omalu, credited with discovering the brain disease cte. >> he received seven gunshot wounds from his back. >> reporter: he says clark, who did not immediately receive medical treatment died three to ten minutes later. >> it was not an instantaneous death. >> reporter: now questions about clark's death continue to swirl as the outrage around it grows.
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meanwhile the sacramento police department says they will not speak any further on this matter until an official autopsy is released from the county. meanwhile, again, you hear what's happening behind me. this rally, organized by former nba player matt barnes, is on right now. we'll have continuous coverage throughout the day and on the nightly news tonight. back to you. >> matt barnes played for the sacramento kings there as well. steve patterson, thank you. >> turning now to baton rouge, louisiana, new video brought from the alton sterling shooting. this image is disturbing. threatening to kill shooting before fatally shooting him six times in july 2016. the department fired him friday. the officer who held him down to the ground was suspended three
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days. neither officer will face criminal charges. congressman al green from texas, thank you for joining us. what was your reaction to this developing story? >> it's my honor to be with you. the great french philosopher/writer, voltare reminded us that those who can make us believe in absurdities can cause us to commit atrocities. it is an absurdity that a young man should be shot down in his grandmother's backyard, hit some six times in the back. it is absurd to believe that we should not have a full investigation that would lead us to more than a simple indication that there was something done that was harmful. and in louisiana i'm very much concerned about what happened there. my suspicion is that there will be civil lawsuits filed in these cases and they may prove to be
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more beneficial than what's happening in the criminal justice system. i don't want to forget also the young man in houston, texas, mr. danny ray thomas. he was shot with his pants down to his ankles. that's an absurdity. if we believe that this man was a threat to the officer, then we're committing an atrocity by allowing this officer to go free. there ought to be a thorough investigation. but we cannot overlook the fact that his pants were down to his ankles. >> president trump did call this matter local matters. that's how they're categorizing this. he hasn't, though, in the past shied away from local matters. how should the president respond to this shooting in sacramento? >> the president should respond similarly it the way he responded when an undocumented person took the life of a very brilliant, very lovely young lady out in california. he made it a national issue. it became a part of his immigration talking points, if
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you will. i think that the president ought to do much more when it comes to these shootings of young men for the most part by peace officers. we have found ourselves now having to negotiate a circumstance where the officer, the person who does the shooting, becomes a judge, jury, prosecutor and the victim, if the victim is the judge, jury and prosecutor, we have a serious problem. the defense district attorneys are not doing their jobs thoroughly. district attorneys have to do more. i contend that not all officers are bad but i will say this. we don't have enough officers willing to speak up and speak out against the ones that are bad. officers have to take a stand. this will not end with silence. it has to end with people speaking up and speaking out. >> congressman, i want you to take a look at this ap/nrc poll. when it comes to fair treatment by police over the last 50
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years, 73% of african-americans say little to no progress has been made and 66% of them say little or no progress has been made in the criminal justice system. what do you make of these numbers? >> there are other numbers as well. the coroner report was produced 50 years ago and since that time little has changed in some areas. for example, at the time the report was issued, african-americans were 5.4% more likely than whites to be incarcerated. now we're 6.4% more likely than whites to be incarcerated. 6.4 times more likely. there is a problem with the way things continue to remain the same. african-americans are twice as likely to be unemployed, twice as likely to be in poverty. these things have an impact on society. and we have to do more. and on the question of dr. king,
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we have to have this courage that he had. the courage to not only speak trouth to power but also speak truth about power. to say you are the problem. in some way to associate so closely with the police that they don't aggressively prosecute them. police have to be aggressively prosecuted when they do wrong. this is not to say that all are wrong but those that are should be prosecuted and other police officers have to speak up and speak out. if they don't do so, that silence in and of itself causes them to somehow have some degree of complicity. >> it all starts with attorney general jeff sessions. do you think anything will change under his watch? >> very little.
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of the president and sessions don't have sterling records when it comes to dealing with matters that involve police. don't be so nice when you arrest people, the president said. you have someone in the care, custody and control and you have the president of the united states saying you don't have to be nice. that's a signal that i've got your back, in a sense. mr. sessions, he's not aggressively pursuing these things. he is trying to find, as best as he can, it appears to me, a way to avoid these issues. he is ashooing these issues to the extent that he is becoming part of the problem itself. he is a part of the problem. the president is a part of the problem. you've got to speak truth not only to power but about power. these are the two most powerful persons we have in this country when it comes to these issues and they're not taking them on. they are, as best as they can, trying to avoid them by allowing
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them to become states' issues when, in fact, they don't do the same thing when it comes to immigration. >> you mentioned to martin luther king jr. we're approaching the 50th anniversary of martin luther king jr.'s assassination. what do you make of the state of black america today? >> we've made some progress but still have a long way to go. we have to do more to protect the legacy of dr. king, the dream that dr. king had of all persons living together. dr. king is an integrationist. i'm an integrationist. i believe we should live together in harmony. i don't think we should segregate ourselves. a little month before dr. king died indicated that we were two societies, separate and unequal. that was a sad thing to have
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said then but, unfortunately, we still have much of that now. and it won't change as long as we allow power to prevail. we've got to speak truth to power and truth about power. >> dr. king was an advocate of nonviolent protests. in your opinion, would they hold the same impact today as they did during the 1960s? >> i absolutely think so. i see what the young people are doing with reference to these combat weapons that are on the streets of our country. they are speaking up, speaking out and making demands and people are listening. i think the young people have shown us that civil disobedience is still important, protesting is still important. i think that we should protest. i think it should be nonviolent protests. dr. king gave us the way. we have to but only follow his example. nonviolent peaceful protest. but also a strategic purchasing. we don't have to buy from people
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who sell us weapons that create destruction within our communities. i think we have to decide that there are some things we don't have to have if they're he being sold from certain purveyors. i think dr. king was the best example of how peaceful protests can bring about great change but we cannot allow his legacy to, in some way, diminish by virtue of our not doing our share, our duty to protect what he has delivered to us, which is a society, quite frankly, that can move forward together. he did remind us that if we don't learn to live together as brothers and sisters, we will pearish together as fools. >> wise words, congressman al green. thank you so much for spending part of your saturday with us. >> thank you. >> congressman, thank you. tomorrow night nbc special documentary "hope & fury: mlk, the movement and the media" explores how media and movements have influenced each other. watch it tomorrow at 10:00 p.m.
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eastern here on msnbc. california is the target of president trump's latest twitter tirade. how the war of words escalates the immigration debate. peninsula trail? you won't find that on a map. i'll take you there. take this left. if you listen real hard you can hear the whales. oop. you hear that? (vo) our subaru outback lets us see the world. sometimes in ways we never imagined. (avo) get 0% apr financing on all-new 2018 subaru outback models. now through april 2nd.
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now with 5 times more detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com welcome back. i'm philip mena. as part of a saturday morning tweet storm, president trump slamming the top politician over immigration, further escalating the divide saying governor jerry
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moonbeam brown, crimes include kidnapping and robbery, badly beating wife and threatening a crime with intent to terrorize and dealing drugs. is this really what the great people of california want? joining us now, joe watkins, republican strategist and former bush white house aide and victoria di francesco. thank you for joining us this afternoon. brown eliminates the grounds on which they could be targeted for removal from the country. what does this mean for folks given the clemency? >> the issue of executive clemency is especially important to the immigrant community. if you are an immigrant and have a conviction, you're picked up by i.c.e., you can be deported. what the clemency does, what the pardon does, it erases that old conviction. remember, pardons are given after a person has served their sentence, has lived crime free for ten years and has applied to
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the courts to get an application of pardon and then they can go to the governor for the pardon. so, there is a very long process involved and, in fact, in this case, governor brown chose five immigrants to do so. and this is going to change their lives, given the context that we're in right now with the escalation of i.c.e. raids. >> so, joe, does the white house have any recourse here at a federal level? >> hopefully, not. hopefully, not. this is supposed to be upcoming -- april is supposed to be the second chance month. president just recently signed a proclamation naming april to be second chance month, a month that celebrates who people have become, despite what they may have been or may have done. we in the united states believe people ought to get a second chance and clearly the people who are listed, who governor brown pardoned are people who may have done something bad at one time but they've changed and they've become much better
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people. and so i think that given the fact that this is -- we're heading into this second chance month, this is a time to celebrate who people can become, despite what they may have done in the past. >> the truch administration sued california earlier this month over its sanctuary city policies. victoria, is this a direct response to those actions? >> absolutely, philip. this is just the latest battle in the california versus trump white house war. this last week, we saw california suing the federal government because of the inclusion of the citizenship question on the census. i think this is going to be a continuation for the next two years and maybe even longer, if trump gets re-elected. interestingly, i think about how texas, my home state, very much played the part that california is playing now when president obama is in office. california has taken that torch and it also has the economic might to do so. it is the strongest economy in
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the united states. so, when california speaks, the rest of the country and the rest of the world has to listen, whether trump likes that or not. >> joe brown has been critical of the lawsuit, saying it's nothing more than a political stunt full of lies and untruths. now the president uses his bully pulpit to strike back. your thoughts on that approach? >> i would prefer that the -- that presidents use their bully pulpit to really call us to the better angels of our nature more so than to divide us. and it would be a great thing if -- that we didn't have this kind of contentious debate but rather we have a debate over how we do a better job of welcoming people who want to be american citizens into this country and how we figure out ways to do that. i don't know that it has to be as contentious as it is, but clearly it's heading toward a continued political friction and name calling. in a perfect world, we wouldn't have that. in a perfect world, we would welcome immigrants of this country and even people who are
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here illegally and figure out a way to find a path for folks to come here and become americans without it being a contentious, bitter-minded debate. >> speaking on that, victoria, let's go to the border wall. the president had promised originally this big, beautiful wall. now you're worried it may become more of a fixer upper. how do you think it will play with his base? >> very much so. president trump is not going to let go of this bone. he's saying, all right, we've got our start. we've got our foot in the door and will keep pushing until we get the money. i see it as a win, philip, the fact that he got some money and is able to put in 30 miles of new fence and fix up another bit of the fence. he is taking this home to his base as a win and as a teeser for saying more is to come. stick with me. don't give up on me. turn out in 2018. let's make sure that the house and senate stay red. i think especially knowing that trump is such a good marketer, i
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think he is going to be able to spin it in such a way that it's a win even though we know in the back rooms he's trying to convince the military to pay for it. it didn't work out with mexico. on the public opinion front, i think his base will be at least adequately happy about it. >> and, joe, we all know that originally he said mexico was going to pay for this wall. now maybe the military -- how likely is that to happen? >> this is a tough one. i don't know that mexico is going to pay for the wall. clearly american taxpayers are footing the bill for the $1.6 billion of that wall. certainly as far as the trump base is concerned, they will see this as a win. president trump, who is clearly among the best messengers i've ever seen will message his base and say, you know what? i made good on my promise. even if it's not very much. even if it's only $1.6 billion worth of fixing up and patching
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up and maybe a little bit new wall, he's still going to get the credit with his base for having made good on his promise. >> joe watkins and victoria difrancesco, thank you both. high-stakes sitdown between president trump and kim jong-un. will the meeting actually happen? what we know about the nuclear negotiations. that five stars, two thumbs up, 12-out-of-10, would recommend thing. because if you only want the best thing, you get the #1 thing. directv is rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable. switch now and get a $200 reward card. more for your thing. that's our thing. call 1.800.directv
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we have seen it in community after community. ahead of possible high stakes nuclear negotiations between the u.s. and north korea, preparations for the trump/kim sit-down still remain murky amount of date has yet to be confirmed, nor a meeting place. president trump's pick to lead u.s. diplomacy at the state department mike pompeo could face a tough time at the confirmation hearing next month. will the meeting happen? we know kim jong-il met with his closest ally in china in a heating with xi jinping. this is a series of diplomatic changes between the north and its neighbors since kim expressed interest in denuclearizing the north korean peninsula. joining me a professor from fletcher school of law and
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diplomacy. thanks for joining us. after that meeting between kim and president xi trump tweeted he is hopeful about denuclearization on the korean peninsula. is china asserting itself as a central player in these negotiations? >> china is. but here's the thing. at what point between vice president mike pence's visit to south korea for the olympic games for the opening ceremony, the games held in south korea in early february and the invitation by kim, his proposition for a summit meeting to president trump in early march did north korea's intentions go from fake or a charade as mr. pence called it to a genuine offer of denuclearization. denuclearization will not take place in the kim regime is presented with a specter of an imminent renl eem collapse. it took the obama administration five years of tough sanctions
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enforcement to get iran back to the negotiating table levying fines in the billions to sanctions violators. nothing of that sort, nothing of that scale has yet to be applied to chinese companies, state run enterprises and banks that go on flagrantly defying u.n. security resolutions and u.s. laws and sanctions against north korea. >> what do you think are the north's true intentions for meeting with xi. >> it's all predictable. it took kim jong ill, kim the second, the current leader's father six years upon seizing power six years to make it to beijing. the fact that kim jong-il had yet to meet with xi was a sign that relations were at an all-time low. i don't think so. this day was bound to happen, the anti-social north korean leader popping up in boy jing?
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why because he had a ban year last year. three nuclear blifl tests and now it's time to change the tune to come across a a reasonable statesman calling for negotiations and get all the powers, princebly the united states to prematurely relax sanctions so that kim my buy time and money with which to perfect his own nuclear posture review. >> he certainly has the momentum at this moment. we also know there are staffing issues as well as a lack of preparation. how likely do you think this meeting is to actually happen between trump and kim. >> i don't think it's likely to happen in may. if it happens further down the calendar, perhaps the u.s. may be better positioned. but to negotiate from a position of strength. kim has been calling the tunes. kim has been calling the shots. and the biggest powers in the world which always obliged. kim beckons, they listen. we have to change that dynamic.
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we have to make sure that kim feels so pressured his back against the wall that it's either regime collapse or he spends the rest of his life in posh exile or ereforms and denuclearizes. we are not there yet. >> what does the u.s. have to gain by coming to the table here? >> not a lot. i mean, mr. trump will end up legitimating him. a summit meeting is unlike a blind date. it must be clear of, devoid of any surprises, spontaneities, annate ma, and for mr. trump to presume that he with his innate charm and ingenuity and brilliance and the art of the deal and so on can get this dictator who is the third generational leader of a dynasty that's been in power for 70 years, a regime that's been
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pursuing nuclear weapons for half a century to get this kind of dictator to give out up, that is a fallacy. >> that's a high stakes view there. thank you for joining us today. thank you. coming up in our next hour. roseanne reboot how the return are of the hit camdy is striking a major political cord and making a fan out of the commander in chief.
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the news continues right now
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with richard louie. >> philip thank you so much. a good day to all of you here on a sat. i'm richard louie at msnbc headquarters in new york city. attack on amazon. president trump once again lashing out at the e-commerce giant blaming it for scamming the post office out of billions. is the post office really losing out? we will break that down. risky rental. the head had of the epa in hot water for his condo rental from lobbyists just the latest of several controversies involving trump officials. we will go live on the ground as residents demand justice. one day after an autopsy rises new questions about the night stephon clark was killed by police. we start with another member of president trump's cabinet facing new questions over spending decisions. the head of the environmental protection agency, scott pruett is under scrutiny for a deal he got for housing on capitol hill. he

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