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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  May 2, 2018 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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we never have enough time. my thanks to you. that does it for our hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. hi chuck. >> i am mourning the mustache today. that is to me the biggest loss in all of this, ty cobb's mustache. >> will america survive? >> do you think america will survive. >> i hope so. >> i don't know. we are going to need to get rolie fingers. >> he can grow one in its replacement. >> it's one of the greatest mustaches of all time. if it's wednesday a new legal team, and a new legal tactic for president trump. tonight, subpoena talk and shakeups. is the president's political end game getting lost in the legal shuffle? >> i wouldn't suggest that i'm the sole voice of, you know, cooperation in the white house. plus, the minority leader
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report. inside nancy pelosi's fight to get back the house gavel. and later, political smackdown. wrestling with the state of modern politics. this is "mtp daily," and it starts right now. ♪ good evening. i'm chuck todd here in new york city. welcome to "mtp daily." and welcome to what could be a whole new chapter in the battle between the president and the special counsel, robert mueller. president now has a new team and new tactics as the white house is under new pressure to decide if the president is going to sit down with an interview with bob muellerment in today's legal team shakeup, ty cobb who had been urging cooperation with the special counsel from the get-go is out. and emmitt flood who was on president clinton's impeachment legal team is in.
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according the legal times flood is expected to take a mored a ver sarial approach than cobb did. all signs pointed to the president's legal defense team now basically being the rudy giuliani show. it appears he is assembling a team more ready for a political fight unanimous a legal one. the legal shakeup comes after the "new york times" published a list of questions that mueller's team wants answered in an interview. those seem to indicate that the president the in serious legal jeopardy and perhaps cooperating wasn't doing him any favors. if you are wondering whether those question leaks was a message to ty cobb you are not the only one thinking that. enter rudy giuliani who said that the white house does need a quote more aggressive approach. giuliani wants mueller to limit his questioning of the president to just a couple of hours. nicole wall as reports adding
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him to the team ramps up support of the invocation of executive privilege. mueller floated the idea in early march of compelling the president to testify via subpoena. that subpoena threat happened before the president's new legal team was in place but it could be just what this new more aggressive team is looking for when it comes to legal matters. the president loves the fight, fight, fight, fight, and more importantly, delay, delay, delay. fighting a subpoena from mueller could let him do both. they almost may want this subpoena. the fight could take months, go all the way to the supreme court. meantime, the president gents months to essentially go on calling the probe a witch-hunt and give him more time to undermine it which is something he has already been doing. today he seemingly threatened the job of rod rosenstein who himself is overseeing the russia probe. tweeting this morning, quote, at some point i will have no choice but the use the powers granted
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to the presidentsy and get involved in regards to rosenstein. that high hard one hit from the president is likely a spoons to this high hard one from rosenstein yesterday. >> there have been people who have been making threats privately and publicly against me for quite some time. and i think they should understand by now that the department of justice is not going to be extorted. >> extorted. that was such a charged word that he used there and clearly a signal to both the house republicans and the president. of course when it comes to the russia probe big difference between in and every other legal battle mr. trump has fought in his lifetime mueller is not going to give up. he is not a creditor who will be placated with ten cents on the dollar. he is not going to get worn down no matter who is on the president's legal team. and being insulted time and time again isn't enough to sis swayed him from taking on donald trump. joining me now, a former u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york.
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and a former associate counsel in the ken starr investigation. mimi let me start with you. you are here. you know rudy giuliani a little bit. he is also a veteran of the sdny up here. you see what rudy giuliani is doing with his new set of lawyers. what do you read into this? >> they will certainly taking as you said a more aggressive political stance. how this plays out legally, though, there are only so many options available, no matter who your lawyer is and how aggressive you are politically. now, if it comes to -- if they can't work out some agreement with this interview and mueller does in fact subpoena him, you know, he's really left with the choice of either complying with that subpoena, ending up in a grand jury room under oath with no lawyer -- which i think would be the worst case scenario for someone like trump or he has to take the fifth and assert executive privilege.
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but that's probably only going to get him so far. so he would have to assert the fifth amendment privilege when has to be politically so damaging. he only has so many ongss. >> steve take me back 20 years, to what you were talking about in the special counsel's office back then when you were negotiating with then president bill clinton about an interview and how those tactics work. you ended up getting to a place that allowed the president to testify via video. and so it allowed him to have an attorney present. is that precedent here? how would you be handling this? >> well, it depends on what hat i'm wearing. if i'm with mr. mueller's crew i'm going the try to use the power of the subpoena to make sure that the president sits down and gives me an interview in front of the grand jury under oath and addresses all the issues that i want the hear evidence on. if i'm from the defense side,
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i'm going to try to use the wiggle room that i might have with a subpoena and the political aspects of it to try to minimize my exposure, timewise, isn'twise, and hunt it down. what i think is important to remember about when we were doing it at the independent counsel with ken starr is that we had issued a subpoena to the president of the united states for his grand jury testimony. it lingered for a while. ultimately the president of the united states agreed, bill clinton agreed to have an interview at the white house. and the compromise was made. there was a limitation on time. his lawyers were allowed to be there. the office actually got an order from the judge to allow the attorneys to be there because normally the grand jury is completely secret. and nobody can be there but the prosecutor, the court reporter and the grand jurors. and the agreement was also made that the interview would be at the white house and played live to the grand jury room.
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by contrast, you will remember that hillary clinton when she was first lady testified at the courthouse in the ground jury room. >> without a lawyer. >> without a lawyer. by herself. >> yeah. >> and many of the president's highest ranking deputies and officials in the clinton administration testified in the grand jury without a lawyer in front of the members of the grand jury. >> how often did they excut executive privilege? >> there was some executive privilege in the clinton investigation. this is a very different situation i think. the executive privilege is a very interesting aspect. executive privilege is a privilege that the president has. if i could step back just one step, the supreme court has said that in the grand jury we the people are entitled to every man's evidence under a subpoena. so the question is unless you have a privilege, whether it's common law, statutory, or constitutional, you have got to tell the truth and you have got to answer the questions.
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as ms. rocha said earlier, fifth amendment is one of them. executive privilege is a privilege. but it is not a blanket privilege that's out there like the fifth amendment. every human being in the united states has a fifth amendment right. it's pretty much unassailable. executive privilege, our supreme court has told us is a sliding scale. it is highest with regard to military and diplomatic secrets. at that point the executive privilege will be at its height. for instance if the president were asked what did you discuss with the russian ambassador immediately after you would probably be able to stop. as you get further afield the general right of the president to just have confidentiality doesn't stop. and that's what the court said in u.s. v nixon when the special prosecutor subpoenaed richard nixon for the tapes and the documents. not a grand jury subpoena but a trial subpoena. a little different but same principle. an important one. >> absolutely. i'm glad you told us about that sliding scale. i think that's important for folks to understand.
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mimi, why does mueller need an interview with the president. i say it this way and i asked him whether he would view the president as a credible witness under oath or not. and he said no. my guess is considering the president's pags history with the truth, one would understand that. -- past history with the truth one would understand that. is there any downside of mueller basically saying i don't need the interview from him? >> it has been debated a lot. init depends which area of the investigation we are talking about. my opinion has been that as to the russian interference aspect he doesn't need it as much because he's clearly -- even from those questions, whoever those questions came from exactly, you can tell, he already has a lot of information. >> it is immaterial evidence. he may not need motive at that point. >> right. and he already seems to know a lot about what different actors were doing at the time of the campaign and right around -- now, what he wants to get at is
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what did donald trump know? because conspiracy law is very brad. this is something the president clearly doesn't understand based on his tweets f. the he knew that certain people were taking actions with respect to the russians during the campaign, if he knew about that and knew the purpose of it and did anything to facilitate it, even in some small way he can be part of that conspiracy. so he is trying to get at, you know, donald trump's knowledge. and that's something that's not so much about his credibility as a witness. that's probing him, whether he tells the truth or not to get answers even if they are circumstantial to find out his knowledge. similarly with respect to the obstruction as you know that's all about his state of mind. it's not so much -- you are talking about someone's credibility as a witness. if you were relying on donald trump for facts. >> yes. >> then it would be a problem. but that's not what he's getting at. >> steven.
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if you are rudy giuliani, the best course of action is make mueller subpoena you and drag out the fight. again, i go back to if you look at donald trump, any time he has gotten into trouble, his first instinct is to buy time, whatever it takes to buy time. sometimes it is a counter-lawsuit. sometimes it is a threat of something else. sometimes it's just starting a new business but there is always an attempt to buy time. agree. but i think -- so yes, that would be one way to do it. i think the president has to look at this as a political problem more than a criminal problem. and so what he has done -- in addition to making forcing a subpoena and making a legal challenge to the subpoena, he can still do what he is already doing, which is try to try to delegitimate mr. mooler and say this is a witch-hunt, it is not fair. when he goes out and gets a subpoena apart from the legal challenge and says i don't want to participate i'm going to take the fifth just because this is
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illegitimate and it is a witch-hunt and the fifth amendment is designed to protect inspect as well as guilty people there is a lot of precedent for it. i think his political base might go with him with this is just not fair and the president shouldn't be subjected to it. >> mimi rocha, is it possible that mueller, while he doesn't need an interview, for per spepgs essential purposes of investigation he has to try? >> yeah, there is that, too. to be clear, i'm saying he doesn't need it. >> as an investigator, you never not want to talk to somebody. >> yeah. i don't think he needs it to gather the facts outside of what was in donald trump's head. but for that, he does need it. i think there is a legitimate purpose for it. but you are right. he also -- whatever he is going to come out with, whatever report he is going the issue or however this is going to end he wants to let everyone know that he gave donald trump the opportunity to couple and explain himself, which the president said he wanted at one point. >> i want to ask beth both of of
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you about the challenge for the new legal team. steven, i'll start with you with donald trump. which is you don't know what you are defending if you don't know the whole story. and that has been a common complaint of the outgoing legal team. >> that's a real big problem for any criminal defense attorney. and you really have to rely on your client to give you as much information as the client can truthful, full some information, without that you are kind of flying blind and it can be a very, very scary thing -- scary place to be. similarly, you want to look at every single piece of paper that mr. mueller has. so the only way to combat that is preparation and great communication with your client. without those two things you are really in a dangerous place. >> mimi, have you had a client that you knew wasn't being truthful but you were stuck representing him anyway? how did you handle it? >> i mean, there is no question that donald trump not telling his counsel everything in the
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sense that he doesn't understand i think sort of how his actions can be perceived legally. so i don't think he's -- >> you don't they he is withholding. he doesn't knowity he should be disclosing. >> he may or -- yeah, i think there is a big piece of that going on with this client in particular. i think it's interesting that people were sort of shocked at how detailed the questions that came out -- oh, wow. of course he does. mueller knows so much more than trump knows and than his lawyers know. and there is not a great option for that counsellor. >> just for following the story in the public domain, you could have coming up with 48 of those 49 questions. there is one you couldn't have. thank you both for your expertise. up ahead, the democrats' dilemma. nancy pelosi has made it clear, she does want to be speaker of the house again. what does that mean for the mid terms? does it? and what about all those
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but prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. the name to remember. welcome back. panel is with me. michelle goldberg. john podhoretz. and caitlyn huey burns. welcome all. caitlyn i will let you have the first shot at this. i feel like the president has hired political warriors in place of his attorneys. now he has decided he is staffing up for a political fight. >> sure. we have seen that over the past couple of days in his tweets. going after this. and we have seen -- this has always been to the president a
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witch-hunt as he has called it. it was interesting actually. i was talking to a few republican strategist in some of the battleground states to try to assess kind of what this battle would look like. they say you know the republican party base we are in a primary season right now. is very much on the the president's page on this. they very much feel under siege. they very much feel like washington is going after the president and therefore going after them. from a purely political standpoint when you are looking at it through that lens you could see why the president could have some success with that. but boy, this is going to continue at a higher pace than we've seen even now. >> either of you dining out on the hypocrisy that donald trump is having to go to a clinton to bail him out off a clinton-like jam. >> hypocrisy has lost its failure. far down the hypocrisy chain, hypocrisy that republicans are
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now arguing that obstruction of justice or lying to the fbi is not problematic if there is no underlying crime. >> it's not problematic if your last name isn't clinton. >> i think the central thing that's going on here is trump has spent his life evading capture by the legal system. so he believes himself to be one of america's greatest experts in how not to get tagged. >> do you blame him. >> not at all. >> he never lost yet. >> so, if i were he i would trust my instincts to some extent. the question is will he fall prey to the vanity that says he can bluff his way through a mueller interview without getting himself into trouble. >> you think a mueller interview will happen. >> i think it will happen. >> wow. >> i don't know when. could be in '19. he could somehow push it. everyone seems to think it's going to happen soon. >> i'm with you.
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>> why would it happen soon. >> trump -- he -- >> if mooler subpoenas him and it goes to the supreme court it's not really up to him. it will take months to play out but i don't think it could take until next year. >> it's may now. >> court goes out of session in june. >> one of the thing that benjamin wittist pointed to out. mueller would slow down his investigation. and trump would have to testify right in the middle of the mid terms. most american voters are not part of republican base. they i think would be really alarmed at the prospect of a president -- >> no but when office midterm if he can fibre up the republican base with the idea that he is being pursued -- >> a la clinton. >> yeah. >> it will help him -- i don't think it's going to help him that much necessarily.
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by the way, it will be more helpful to him if the korea summit and thing going on in north korea go the way he wants them to go. >> caitlyn, we wanted to point it out here, that the president on march 11th, claimed he was very happy with his legal team when many of us, including the "new york times" were reporting that he wasn't. and he said the failing "new york times" purposely wrote a false story stating that i am unhappy with my legal team on the russia case and i'm going the add another lawyer to help out. wrong. i'm happy with my lawyers, daud, cobb, and sekulow. they are doing a great job. jay sekulow is still left. that was march 11 smooth two months. we have seen the president do this before, say all the reporting is wrong. i'm surprised it took two months. in other issues it has been only a couple of days when he proved that wrong. there was criticism that the president wasn't adequately prepared from a legal standpoint to deal with this kind of thing.
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you could look at it as yes gearing up for a political fight but also expanding to a team that knows how to handle it. >> it's all part of the same game. if you replace lawyers, they have six weeks to get up to speed. that pushes it into june. he is a delayer and an off few skater. nothing he says about this can be taken at face value. as a result i think you take what has happened and analyze it as such. the special counsel has been serving almost a year. we have been talking whether or not he is going to talk to the special counsel for almost a year and we will be talking about it for another year. >> do you think? wow. by the way, michelle, i will let you react. steve bannon is taking a victory lap on the ty cobb firing. departure, retirement, however they want to word it. pardon my french there. but steve bannon sells kristen welker. he should have been fired the moment he advocated waving
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executive privilege. bannon was arguing fight, fight, fight from the beginning, which is the bannon mantra. >> everybody remotely connected with this administration gets to take a victory lap about the dephenomenon administration of their colleagues. i think it's clear he is gearing up not just to take a more aggressive legal posture but he is on twitter talking about how he is going to obstruct justice, talking about how he is going to speaker fear with the justice department. >> before you go there, i want to bring up the rod rosenstein quote yesterday. i want to play it again. i really -- nothing -- let me play it again. take a listen. >> there have been people who have been making threats privately and publicly against me for quite some time. and i think they should understand by now the department of justice is not going to be extorted. >> extorted. such a word that was designed to insight a response. he knows -- he approved the
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michael cohen raid. he knows with what mueller has. he is more confident in every decision he made than any one before. that misdemeanor should scare the president. >> presumably the extortion he is talking about is extortion by the house. >> republicans. >> efforts talk about impeaching them. he is part of the executive brachl. he is saying you in the house have no business talking to me about what it is we are doing here. i'm not going to be extorted into changing the way the justice department acts. then he has a guy this the white house who is the head of the executive branch what seems to be cite siding with the legislative branch against the sutive branch. that's new. i mean we talk about what is new and what's unprecedented. rosenstein is saying get out of the executive branch's way. you have got no business here. trump is like no, get them, go, go after them. great. it's bananas. >> i agree with that yyou.
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i don't think rosenstein feels this case is going to fall apart. >> they have already been vindicated. they have had how many indictments. >> in fairness, the vindication is do they prove the theory of the case. ultimately, which is that they somehow were involved with the russians. up ahead, body slamming the competition. folding chair option. and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪
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welcome back. tonight i'm obsessed with the rough-and-tumble world of politics. it just got rougher and maybe tumblyier. meet glen jacobs, he won the them nation for mayor of knox county, tennessee by 17 votes. never heard of the guy? maybe you know him by his professional name, kane. he is a wormer wwe wrestlers. what is it exactly that attraction wrestlers to politics? remember jesse the body ventura. he got his start in politics by winning a suburban mayoral race outside offal st. paul. dwayne johnson, the rock has been openly flirting with a run for president some day. linda mcmahon ran twice for the u.s. senate in conand cofounded
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the wwe, used to be the wwf with her husband vince. trump has adopted a wrestling approach to politics, smauk talk, bluster, even spent time in the ring. mr. trump's connection to wrestling was arguably among his early first connections to a big part what have would become his political base. when you think about it, they are not that different politics and wrestling. politics is all about team work and working together to solve a problem. about holding tight to your believes especially when they are challenged, rising to the occasion and elevating our national discourse and about that sweet victory when people finally see thing your way. just kidding. back to the nomination of glen. congratulations to him.
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i'm hampton pearson with a cnbc market wrap. u.s. stocks falling after the fed released its latest monetary
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policy decision keeping rates unchanged while pointing to higher inflation ahead. the dow falling by 173 points. snap shares took a nose dive, down over 20% after a rough earnings report. fewer users for the quarter taking a toll on the stock despite ad revenue being up 62% why are over year. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "mtp daily" "mtp daily." . welcome back. many republicans today are probably thanking house minority leader nancy pelosi for what they think is a gift she gave them yesterday when she said this yesterday to the boston globe. we will win, i will run for speaker, i feel confident about and it myk constituents do, too.
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the house is absolutely up for grabs this fall. no doubt about it. democrats have a good chance of retaking it. some give their odds greater than 50% but does this kind of talk help them or hurt them? you can expect that comment from pelosi is going to show up in republican ads all over the country. as you talked about it before pelosi brings in a lot of dollars for democrats and keeps her caucus in line, but she is also an target of the gop and represents an endrenched establishment since she has been in congress 30 years. pelosi was dead last in both polls with a net negative rating of 32 points. joining me, mr. bennett ton. welcome back. >> thanks for having me. >> there is a debate that gets restarted inside the democratic party right now since nancy pelosi lost the speakership.
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every every three or four months, which is does she help or hurt democratic party chances in the house races? >> she is saying what she is saying. a lot of democrats tell their supporters i'm not supporting her. what does this do? good? bad? indifferent? where are you? >> i think late in may i think nancy pelosi is not going to be the issue in this campaign going forward. the house is competitive for one reason only. the republicans from trump down through mcconnell who by the way is the least popular senator in the country, right, has approval ratings as bad as nancy pelosi's in the morning consult poll. >> however, his numbers are that bad because of republican voters. not -- his numbers are better with the middle than hers are. >> when we get down to voting in november, the reason democrats have a shot at the house is because the number of suburban districts, not just swing districts, suburban districts in states like new york, update, new jersey, where rodney
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freeling housen stepped down, the chairman of the house appropriations committee. those high population of college educated voters we are going to get halfway to the 23 we need right there. redrawn lines in pennsylvania. we are going to have a shot there with six more seats. >> i take it you are bringing up the suburban seats, you think attacking pelosi in those districts will backfire. >> yes. >> i think -- i done think -- republicans alienated college educated women. there is room to grow with that group. when you add that to a tax cut benefiting corporations and the wealthy. we are going to jam that tax cut down the throat of every republican who supports it because people aren't seeing it in their paychecks and they are not going to. >> what would you tell a democratic house candidate who is running as a challenger in this year and they are saying hey we need to bring new leadership a fresh perspective, and inevitably your client is going to come to you and say, a reporter is going to ask me
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where i am on nancy pelosi. what should i say? >> i would tell them to say the republicans have had their hands on the rudders of government for two years and what they have done is screwed you over. they tried to take away your health care. we know your premiums are going to go up. they gave tax cuts to the torp ragss and the wealthy and it's not showing up in your paycheck. what you need are people there in washington who are going to be fighting for you. >> are you supporting pelosi for speaker ott not. >> i would say i want to win my race first. >> deal with it later. >> talk about the issues that matter to the voters. i don't think they are voting based on who is going to be the leader in washington. they don't like washington at all. why would you want be to in a debate about washington power structure? >> as you know the other divide in this issue over pelosi, there is the idea she is used as a sujel. but the other part is she and hoyer and clyburn have basically put a cap on the ambition of
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anybody from a new generation. that is also a powerful argument. >> right. i think those things shake out when and if you get the majority. i think things change sometimes after elections. right now i think when you are running and you have got a shot at taking back the house andet going your hands on one of the three levels of government run on the issues that are going to matter to the people oath voting for you and deal with that washington insider stuff later. >> is this -- the republicans are looking for a cudgel. they are looking for pelosi. you can debate as to why. the tax cut has not proven to be as popular as they thought it would be. things like that. would you have preferred she had not said anything about whether she is running for speaker? >> probably. i don't think it is necessary on any level to be debating. >> she didn't need to say this now in your mind? >> i don't think so. the democrats are in a pretty good position. if we were having this conversation four or five months ago we on the would be talking
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about the democrats possibly taking back the house. this is a fairlien recent shift in the political dynamic. and we saw it over and over again from alabama's senate race on, what is happening because of the suburban districts. it could be a historic number of college educated voters voting in november. >> lamb distanced himself from pelosi and he won. >> i think we chased a rainbow in georgia six. >> really? >> oh, yeah. i thought that was always going to be a tough district to win. >> compared to possess pens 18? >> no, the dynamics in that -- georgia sick was a much heavier republican district and the shift to the suburbs outside of pennsylvania i think gave connor lamb -- he won a close election. they are both close elections. ossoff got to 48. we got lulled into thinking he could get to 50. they had a long runoff and he got to 48. >> let me ask you about the issue of impeachment. the president seems to almost --
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let me play a sound byte. let me play the president over the weekend. >> we have to keep the house because if you listen to maxine waters -- she goes around saying we will impeach him. >> what's interesting here, why he picks on her -- there may be other motivations but she is one of the few incumbent house members who openly talks about impeachment. pelosi has been the opposite. chuck schumer. you name a prominent national democrat and most of them say don't go there. but he is going to go there. what do you think that's going to do in the fall? >> look, i think he has a solid base in the mid 30s to 40% at most. he can try to gin that base up all he wants because he is hype by seven or eight points for congress. that's not a good day for republicans. i don't think any day donald
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trump is talking about impeachment is a good day for republicans by the way. i think there are swing voters who are going to say i don't like donald trump. >> the theory is that it might help him in the senate because of the rural states that are up for grabs. >> i think we have a bigger hill to climb in the senate. we have a map where we are playing defense even though we only have to win a handful of seats and we are in the majority again. >> can the impeachment argument actually work in some of those states? >> it come. although i don't think we should be talking about it. i think mueller needs to do his job and let that run itself out and run on the issues that the voters care about. >> curious what some of the younger democratic women in the house think about the fact that nancy pelosi thinks sees the only one who break the boys' club. ty cobb is retiring and taking his amazing mustache with him. who will be the hair apparent? you introduce the all-new ford ecosport
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my time is thin, but so is my lawn. now there's new scotts thick 'r lawn 3-in-1 solution. with a soil improver! seed! and fertilizer to feed! ♪ ♪ now yard time is our time. this is a scotts yard. welcome back. tonight on meet the mid terms. first the president called on him to resign. now president trump's super pac is hitting montana's democratic senator jon tester hard. tester made a splash last week when he went public with numerous allegations against white house physician rone jackson that led him to withdraw as president trump's pick to run the va. now senator tester is taking some heat on the paid air waves.
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>> his reckless crusade to block trump's pick to head the va is a disgrace to montana. >> what jon tester did to this man is a disgrace. >> trump is right. >> helping d.c. democrats derail president trump's veterans affair nominee, tester has been part of the swamp too long. >> tester's counter-part on the veterans committee isaacson continues to defend him. isaacson is distancing himself from attacks like the ones you saw there. his office total reporters that the senator doesn't have a problem with how the information on jackson was handled. meanwhile we learned today mike flynn will campaign this week for one of the republicans hoping to challenge tester this fall. a lot happening out there in big sky country. by the way there was more allegations against ronny jackson that came from the vice president's office here. looks like right now it's only trump taking tester on. we'll be right back with "the li lid". k, keep going, and make a difference.
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time now for "the lid." panel is back. michelle goldberg, john podhoretz -- i want to give you a shot quickly loo at pelosi, i am running for speaker. what do you think? >> i think, look, pelosi, when she said that she was an enormously effective legislator she was right. she held that caucus together. she did her job better than paul ryan. and i know she's really unpopular nationally, but so is paul ryan. and i don't know about you, but i have never covered a local race where this has been particularly salient. i was just in arizona where the democrats lost the special election. they lost for a lot of reasons. but i don't think that nancy pelosi and will you vote for nancy pelosi as far as -- i didn't talk to anybody for whom that came up. >> i think there is some democrats looking at it in the a
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buy father way. ossoff lost, lamb won, what was the difference? one said he wasn't voting for pelosi and one said he was. i think it's too simple ballistic. >> two thing. she polls badly. if you are talking about swing voters or trump voters who might conceivably vote for the democrat, this idea abroad that's in the heads of consultants is she is a weight, a barnacle. say you are not going to vote for her. it would be ludicrous on the one hand if they win back the house for them to ditch her just because she is old. i mean she is a very effective -- >> they could pay a price for doing it two handedly. >> that too. but she is a effective and strong legislator. i don't know who takes the job from her. ryan wasn't good at the job. ryan knew he wasn't going to be good at the job, didn't want the job. >> you have this question mark who is going to be the republican leader. i can see a scenario where
quote
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democrats want to keep everybody together through the mid terms. keep everything together, she is a prolific fund-raiser. they point to pelosi as part of the whole deal, you don't like trump but do you really -- >> the change message. >> exactly. to the kinds of voters that they are targeting. >> i have to bring up what mike pence says about joe arpaio. what surprised me, not just what pence said but the amount of people in your world that called him out on it. take a listen. >> i found out as i was walking through the door that we were also going joined today by another favorite. a great friend of this president. a tireless champion of strong borders and the rule of law. spent a lifetime in law enforcement, sheriff joe arpaio. i'm honored to have you here. >> a lot of people shocked.
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david french, rich lowry, charlie sykes. these are folks that -- you sort of come patriots of and they are unloading on pence. >> arpaio was pardoned. you are pardoned because maybe it's thought that it was an unjust sentence. he was convicted of a felony. >> in the court of law. >> for disaobeying a court order the release people who were being held on suspicion that they might not be american citizens. now arpaio has a whole history of really bad i think disgusting behavior. but i think what you see there in mike pence is a kind of sole selling. it's like watching somebody who sold his soul for a mess of pottage. >> it surprised me that people are surprised that mike pence sold his soul. i don't know who going to tell them who has boss has been the last two years. right? but the fact in a mike pence is a total apologist and lackey for
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the worst elements of this administration maybe it does some as a surprise. >> it's what he said. >> what he said. >> it's not just that he -- he called arpaio a champion of the rule of law. that is the thing. he deliberately disobeyed and refused a court order. >> that's what they do, that's what these people do, up is down and black is white. and they delight in kind of confounding. >> he was called out on it when he did it. >> i had thought that pence was very -- he had been careful to sort of avoid land mines like arpaio. he didn't just -- he said, hey, i'm excited. joe arpaio is here. went out to his way to do this. >> i have the same reaction because of the political part of this, which is that republicans don't want joe arpaio to be the nominee for the arizona senate race. i was talking to republicans last week. they are upset about that race.
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>> what is he doing. guys, itch got to go. sorry. when we come back, i'm keeping a stiffer upper lip. ♪[upbeat music]
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♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun♪ ♪now i'm gonna tell my momma ♪that i'm a traveller ♪i'm gonna follow the sun
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transitions™ light under control™ i'm all-business when i, travel... transitions™ even when i travel... for leisure. so i go national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges. what can i say? control suits me. go national. go like a pro.
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hey, want thedone.est internet? and now, xfinity mobile is included. you can get up to five lines. you can save 400 bucks or more a year, which you can spend on a funk-tastic music video. ♪ dance party boom. ♪ simple. easy. awesome. come see how you can save $400 or more a year with xfinity mobile. plus, ask how to keep your current phone. visit your local xfinity store today. in case you missed it. the white house suffered a huge loss today on its legal team. not ty cobb. his mustache. they don't grow them like that im in. not since mr. monopoly has an upper lip upgrade been as prominent in america. ty cobb is being replaced by
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this guy, fine fellow, emmet flood, approximate you as bare faced as 6-year-old. theyt administration still has one mustache. john bolton. but bowlon is to cobb what miniature golf is to the master's, similar but not really. what do you do? the flood for cobb switch was jeered by rudy jewel jool. maybe he could grow one. scott pruitt? he could use one to hide from the press. or vice president mike pence, vice presidential mustaches used to be all the rage. why do i think that the mustache would never stick to the teflon on pence's upper lip. that's all for today. we will be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily" "mtp daily." ari joins us now. i'm impressed with ty cobb's mustache. >> i am obsessed with the verve and the planning that went into that.
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>> you have got to entertain yourself somehow some days. >> my last question, where does john bolton figure in? >> he is now the number one mustache in the west wing as we know. and president trump very much a strin brenner guy, believes everybody should be clean shaven. i think if bolton would go here, i tell you, the iranians would fold like that, they would be entlald with the handle bars. >> thing they call that game face. chuck todd thank you very much. wishing you a good evening. i will tell you what is leading our broadcast tonight. bob mueller dialing up pressure on trump with a new subpoena threat. that's big deal. meanwhile, trump reshuffling his criminal defense team. and breaking this hour, one of trump's accusers filing new subpoenas in court. we twin with ty cobb out. this news comes after the reports that mueller is ready to fight fire with fire. telling the white house for the first time that if they won't have donald trump, the

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