tv MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC May 4, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT
know that the president repaid mr. cohen for the $130,000? you personally? >> the first awareness i had was during the interview last night. >> plus, money, power, politics. epa chief scott pruitt still in the news, facing new questions about his travel, his home and campaign payments. and you know what today is, jobs, jobs, jobs day. 164,000 jobs added in april. the unemployment rate now at just 3.9%. extraordinary. what's not extraordinary is wages, not up as much as we thought. not up as much as we hoped. we're going to get to all of it. but first, let's go to alexandria, virginia. that is where a hearing is getting under way for a president's former campaign manager paul manafort. he's going to try to get all of the criminal charges against him dropped. nbc news has a reporter in the courtroom and as soon as we have
details on today's proceedings, we're going to bring you there. now we have got to get to the other big story, the fallout. rudy giuliani says he and president trump, they're in lock step, even as giuliani drops tons of new information about the president's legal troubles. in the process, he seems to have carved out a new legal strategy and a new communication strategy all in just 36 hours. i have a great team here to break it down. first, i want to fill you in on a conversation mr. giuliani had with nbc news because it touches on some of the key issues bob mueller has been investigating. one of the top questions is why giuliani revealed that the president reimbursed cohen for the payment to stormy daniels. say, quote, i want to get out in front of the district counsel because at some point they'll realize the information and leak it. at some point, david realized the white house had lied. he insists the president himself
didn't know about the payment until a week ago, quote, i don't think the president realized he paid cohen for that specific thing until we, his legal team, made him aware of the paperwork. i don't know, paperwork. talking about paying off a porn star you had an affair with. when trump was informed, giuliani said, the president responded, quote, oh, my goodness, i guess that's what that was for. oh, my goodness, wow, i haven't heard him say that or mercy me or golly. he also reiterated that trump paid cohen more than that amount that went to daniels, over 400 grand in total. although mr. giuliani didn't offer tdetails. a key question is whether the payment was designed to help the president win the election. giuliani seemed to suggest that was in his fox news interview. >> imagine if that came out, in the middle of, you know, the last debate with hillary clinton. >> so to make it go away -- >> cohen didn't even ask. cohen made it go away.
he did his job. >> to make it go away. we're not talking about a mob movie. we're talking about the president of the united states. but giuliani, here's the thing, you told nbc the money was actually meant to, quote, help alleviate a personal problem. he said even if there was no campaign, cohen would have made the same payment in the same amount to present personal embarrassment and heartache for his wife. and this legal strategy is only part of the story. the other is the communication strategy being shaped by giuliani and the president, press secretary sarah huckabee sanders admitted yesterday she didn't even know about the president's reimbursement to cohen until last night. even though that contradicted what she specifically said back in march. >> yes, i've had conversations with the president about this. as i outlined earlier, that this case had already been won in arbitration, and there was no
knowledge of any payments from the president and he's denied all these allegations. >> were you lying to us at the time or were you in the dark? >> the president has denied and continued to deny the underlying claim. i gave you the best information i had and i'm going to continue to do my best every single day. >> the president doesn't go to the podium every day, sarah does. either she lied in march or she lied yesterday. one of those two days, she was lying. when asked about catching the white house off guard, giuliani did apologize, but he says the president, he was kept in the loop, quote, you're not going to see daylight between president and me. we're going to work hard to have a consistent strategy. jack quinn, he served as white house counsel to president clint clinton. elise jordan, a former aide to george w. bush. and midwin charles, an attorney with the law firm midwin charles and associates. we're talking about potential campaign finance violations. but they're kind of small potatoes. is that enough to go through the massive raid that went down in
michael cohen's office, his apartment, his hotel? i mean, this is the president of the united states' personal attorney. with the southern district of new york, go through such an extravaganza of embarrassment just for campaign finance violations? >> no, and i don't think the raid was premised on bolstering any campaign finance charge against cohen or anybody else. i think the southern district of new york is clearly investigating serious crimes, campaign finance violatioviolat the way, can be serious crimes, in connection, by the way, the one we're talking about, i think what rudy giuliani did yesterday was not only create a big mess, but he put his foot into the pot that suggests the campaign violation in question here may have been willful and therefore a felony. but in any case, i don't think -- i do think the role of the raid here was giuliani
probably knew that details about this payment were likely to come out as a result of the raid and contradict the president's and other people's earlier statements, so he wanted to get out in public the fact that cohen, for example, had been reimbursed. >> so he wanted to put it out there that, hey, they lied about this, they misrepresented it, so the sting couldn't come from the southern district of new york or bob mueller. i want to share what ronnie deutsch said on "morning joe" because rudy giuliani has been saying about town this week, i'm here to help the president, but he also said i want to help michael cohen. danny deutsch spoke to michael cohen yesterday. i want to share what he said. >> i spoke with michael cohen said and his quote about giuliani was he doesn't know what he's talking about. he said look, there are two people who don't know what happened, myself and the president, and you'll be hearing my side of the story. he was frustrated at what had
come out yesterday. >> what do you make of that? who does he think he's helping? >> that's a very interesting definition of help. your job is not to make things more difficult for that person. your job is to alleviate the problems. your job is to sort of get people away from looking into the particular issue. and he hasn't done that. in fact, he has made it worse. he has sort of exposed donald trump as well as this administration. sarah has stood at that podium and denied the fact this payment was ever made. what he has done by saying this is expose the fact that she is lying and the president was lying. when he said he knew nothing about the payment. >> he's hanging sarah sanders out to dry, saying i am in lock step with the president. sarah is out there every day and now has been exposed as a liar
without the president coming to her aide or giuliani coming to her aid. >> that's everyone who works in this administration. >> and choose to do it on a daily basis. no one is forcing them to do those jobs. we're hearing all this from giuliani. he says he couldn't be -- yet nothing from john mcgahn, nothing from emmitt flood, nothing from sekulow. is it that rudy's the new face guy and those guys are doing the work? >> i think this was, you know, concocted by the president and rudy giuliani sitting together and making a decision to go out and let him make this statement. i think it was a disaster. i mean this whole idea, stephanie, that they were -- that this payment was made in order to deal with personal problems, family problems, because if it got melania
and others would be upset. think about this. the alleged affair took place ten years before the 2016 election. and yet six weeks before the election, they make a decision that they've got to make this payment in order that it not be revealed. is it conceivable that for ten years they were unconcerned about this getting out because of the effect it might have on his wife -- >> hold on, for ten years stormy daniels might not have gotten anyone to care. there weren't many organizations -- stormy daniels did try to tell her story a while ago and it didn't matter. >> right. if donald trump had not run for president, do we think this payment would have been made? i sure don't. >> i would agree with that. if the president's actions and michael cohen's actions were legal, why wouldn't cohen lead with that? that's the one thing i don't get here. keeps spinning it. just say i'm absolutely innocent. >> those seem to be words that perhaps they shy away from.
because they know that's one untruth. they're just not going to tell. the only thing we know for sure about this entire controversy is the president and his surrogates have consistently lied. they have been all over the place when addressing the scandal. now, i still find it hard to fathom that donald trump would actually repay any money he owed to anyone. if he could get away with not paying. especially a sum that was larger. you never hear of people talking about working at the trump organization because their salaries were so great. you never hear people talking about how donald trump is rushing to pay them. this is part of the reason he has trouble getting a great lawyer for his team. he's known to run away from all his legal fees. notorious over decades in new york city. i still find this story to be incredibly difficult to believe. >> eddie, back to this idea that rudy giuliani says he's in lock step with the president. they may be, but sarah sanders humiliated herself yesterday.
we know kellyanne conway has said before she knew nothing about the payment while she was on the campaign. what is this doing to everyone there? >> well, as you said, it's leaving them out to dry, hanging them out to dry. we know donald trump is loyal only to donald trump. even though he demands loyalty from those who are around him. look, yesterday rudy giuliani turned the temperature up. among the things he said, he said, in effect, that they paid the retainer to michael cohen because in effect stormy daniels and her then lawyer were engaged in an extortion. he actually used that word, that they were extorting him. right. so i know for a fact that michael avenatti is already preparing that second defamation lawsuit is coming. >> yes, but trump's been knee deep in defamation suits and all that for years. >> right. >> is there any credibility to the idea that rudy giuliani putting this stuff out there and taking the sting out of what the
findings of the southern district might have? >> absolutely not. to my mind, i don't think he's settled that issue at all. in fact, he turned up the heat. it's boiling right now. so part of the -- the thing we have to deal with are -- it's the moral consequence and the political consequence and of course the legal consequence. >> legal is the big one though. if it's the political consequence, however people feel about president trump is locked in and it's not changing. if it's the moral consequence, people voted for president trump knowing he was morally reprehensible and they were okay with it. it's only the third leg that actually matters. >> so yes, stephanie. but the first two suggested that we are in deep, deep trouble. >> exactly. >> my friend, we are in deep trouble. we don't need the suggestion. jack, nbc has been reporting that the feds may have been monitoring cohen's calls. how unusual is that? and how unusual would it be if this is just about campaign
finance? >> would be highly, highly unusual if it were simply about campaign finance. they employ what's called a pen register, which is a device that will record the numbers of calls being made going out. those devices these days can typically also record the numbers of calls coming in. so in other words, they're not monitoring the actual conversation, but they are keeping track of who's calling in and who's calling and to what numbers the target is calling out. >> midwin, what's your take on all this? >> well, my take on this, if this reporting is accurate, that that was probably what formed the basis for the fbi to get this sort of no knock ability to go into cohen's offices and raid them. they probably were able to provide that information that they got from this monitoring to a judge in effect to convince the judge, look, based upon what we observed, michael cohen may
destroy evidence, and as a result, we cannot give him sort of advance warning, you know, regular subpoena that we're coming in to get the documents. because we believe, even though he's an attorney, even though most of the documents may be protected by attorney/client privilege, but the belief that he may destroy these documents is so high, based on what we heard, what we've observed, we need this no subpoena. we need to get these documents. >> how do republicans read all this? we know trump's base isn't going anywhere. but i mean the republicans that you know and love and have worked with for years. >> the base, trump supporters who aren't going anywhere as a witch hunt. republicans for gop leadership. mitch mcconnell's -- >> he's stayed away. leadership has known for a while that it's not getting better. >> that's an oxymoron. >> you look at how mitch mcconnell has been handling the
senate intel committee's investigation and the seriousness with which he has allowed them to approach it. he has stayed out. he's kept his language muted. i think the leadership by no question, they know -- >> we ought to stop calling it leadership. this is not leadership by any stretch of the imagination. it just isn't. >> let me just remind us of something. remember at the end of the election, 2016 election, we were worried donald trump was setting it up, setting up the public to delegitimize the election of hillary clinton. in fact, setting it up so not just simply for trump tv but in order to stoke resentment -- >> you're right, we were ready for him to not being accept the outcome. >> not only muddying the legal waters by getting us to pay attention to seven, eight different things, right, he's also delegitimizing this. part of what he's going to say, right, if they indicted this is a witch hunt. the stormtroopers, quote/unquote, are moving in. he is setting this up in a way
that's going to be very, very dangerous for this country. >> the storm and stormy. >> there are all of these gop primaries from literally next week through august, september. you have these primary battles where let's hope the gop candidate doesn't want crazy candidate to win. but who comes out and votes? the hard-core supporters who think this is all a witch hunt. so they are politically under pressure to not say anything and to just keep to this fine balancing act of keeping trump at bay. >> all right, we have to remember, people out there in the country, many are interested in this, many are just trying to get by as we have more and more states with teachers walking out and picketing. we've got the nra conference happening today. let's not forget the economy, jobs number out today, and still wages are lagging. all those companies got their
very big tax cuts. show me where the raises are. i don't not see them. up next, the gun debate. it's taken center stage today. the president is going to be speaking at that nra convention after initially calling for gun control after the parkland shooting. the question is what tone will the president take. remember, the nra supported him in a very big way. first, yesterday, a judge ruled that a building here in new york city has the right to remove the trump's name from its facade. seth meyers knows, well, he has an idea what they should replace it with. >> a new york state supreme court judge ruled today a trump branded building in the city has the right to remove the president's name and replace it with something less embarrassing.
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welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle. president trump is set to take the stage at the nra convention for the fourth straight year in a row. then candidate trump received roughly $30 million towards his campaign. trump temporarily backed away from the nra after the school shooting in parkland, florida, just two months ago. since that shooting, the gun control movement has renewed energy we haven't seen legislation. nbc's vaugh hillyard joins me now from dallas, texas. set the scene for us. what's it like there? >> it's been quite a 2018,
stephanie, hasn't it? the president and vice president are going to be here today in dallas. more than 80,000 attendees expected at the nra convention. both the president and the vice president will speak. should know, back in february, recall when the president was talking about members of congress being the ones petrified of the nra. just a couple weeks after that meeting at the white house with those members of congress, it was the president who met with the top lobbyists of the nra and his tune has changed quite a bit since then. today with very little actual legislation actually passed to i guess appease a lot of the gun control calls by the young students across the country as well as those just talking for things like expanded background checks or increasing the age from 19 to 21 years old for being able to buy semiautomatic weapons. there's been very little in terms of actual action against what the nra called for. >> specifically, the president speaks to the big room and so does mike pence? >> that's correct.
and there are no firearms allowed as either of them speak. you talk to a couple of them around here. obviously there's a lot of people that are packing here among those 80,000. talking to one woman, she said she has no qualms with it. this is dallas here. this is no small event. the vice president will be speaking and then the president. as to what they say, i should note this weekend is prom over at marjory stoneman douglas high school out in parkland, florida. between those two screen shots there, very different looks here this weekend, stephanie. >> wow, this is prom weekend at stoneman douglas high school. the same weekend of the nra convention. any of those parkland kids going to be there? i mean, in dallas, not -- >> no, i was talking to a couple here over this weekend, and they said they have every intention of going to prom, but that doesn't mean we're not going to be seeing them a lot. i've seen a couple of them over the course of the campaign trail making their voices heard. not taking sides with candidates but making their voices heard. we should expect more of that.
>> nobody should miss their prom. all right, thank you so much. we'll check in with you throughout the day. coming up, any minute now, stock market, just a few minutes away from opening after a lukewarm jobs report. but we cannot overstate the fact that we're at 3.9 unemployment. that is full employment. the country is chugging along. people have jobs. the question is, are they good enough jobs and how is the market going to react. patrick woke up with a sore back. but he's got work to do. so he took aleve this morning. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. tylenol can't do that. aleve. all day strong. all day long. the brand more doctors recommend for minor arthritis pain.
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welcome back. time now for your morning primer. everything you need to know to get your day started. mandatory evacuations under way in hawaii after a 5.0 earthquake caused an active volcano to erupt. lava erupted near a neighborhood. 1,500 people now out of their homes. the missouri legislature will hold a special session to discuss impeaching republican governor eric greitens. greitens of course has been accused of sexual misconduct as well as misusing data from a charity he founded. greitens has denied the allegations. bill cosby and director roman polanski have been expelled from the film academy that runs the oscars. cosby was convicted of three counts of sexual assault last
month. polanski pled guilty to unlawful sex with a minor in 1977 before leaving the country. hey, academy, what took you so long? and arizona lawmakers have ended their walkout. this is some good news. after reaching a compromise with the state legislature. the new law provides a conditional 20% raise for teachers by 2020 and more support in those classrooms. and twitter has found a bug which could potentially make user's passwords visible to twitter employees. it says the investigation did not show signs of a data breach but it is urging users to change their password anyway. the first friday of the month, that means jobs day. the united states added 164,000 jobs last month. so they did fall short of expectations. but the unemployment rate fell to 3.9%. president trump wasted no time touting the economy on
twitter. earlier today, writing, quote, because jobs in the u.s. are
doing so well, americans receiving unemployment aid is the lowest since 1973. great. with me now, cnbc's
dom chu and brendan greely, editor of the economic research note. dominic, as we're watching -- there we go, women's bond club ringing the bell today, one of my old favorites. how do you take this number? >> so the number was mixed. that's the reason why you're seeing a bit of a mixed reaction on wall street now. stocks are going to open just fractionally lower. what a lot of traders and investors are going to start to try to digest is whether or not this is overly bullish or overly bearish. the reason we're saying that is because we are still growing jobs. so that's important. the unemployment rate is falling to, you know, multiyear lows at this point. so that's a good thing. we haven't seen a 3.9% print for unemployment in quite some time. the issue is if you start to kind of peel back a couple layers of the onion, labor force
participation, the number of people out there work or trying to find work has now fallen to the lowest level since january. that's a quirk. that's going to be one of the reasons why the unemployment rate is falling. if you look at average hourly earnings, also not growing by all that much as well. there is no real inflation, no fear of anybody making more money. more people are working, yes, but that's the reason why this mixed picture is getting such a mixed reaction on wall street right now. >> brendan greely, when i people back an onion, i start to cry, and it smells really bad. what's your take? >> i feel like we've been holding our breath for the last two years waiting to figure out when wages are going to rise. >> you've been telling me it's going to come -- you specifically have been telling me wages are going up. >> i did. >> my friend, i don't see it. >> i was wrong. it doesn't make any sense. we're trying to figure out why it doesn't make any sense. one of the things we're waiting to see happen is more people will come back in the labor force. now we have this economy that's running pretty well and the growth in the labor force participation rate has actually
plateaued. we're not getting that. and yet companies aren't really raising wages. i actually think it's cultural. i think it's been so long since anyone's had to give a raise that they just are out of the habit of it. i think that maybe -- >> okay, they're out of the habit of it. but are all those companies just got a big juicy tax cut. they're out of the habit of getting that too. president trump just tweeted, just out, 3.9% unemployment. in the meantime, witch hunt, exclamation point. here's the thing that makes no sense to me though. the people who need those raises the most, they're not paying attention to the unemployment rate. they're not watching me. they're not watching you. they're saying, i cannot afford to support my family. >> so there's a lot of indicators we're looking at. i won't go into any detail. you get growth, you get contraction. this happened since time and memorial. they're looking at indicators even if employees aren't. are they wondering, can we just ride this out.
can we avoid giving raises until we get to the end of the cycle, we get an economic downturn and then sorry, we can't give raises. but, i mean, it is amazing what companies are doing to retain workers. they're giving them signing bonuses, better benefits, anything to avoid just nudging up that number. >> because that's a one-time gift. if you give someone a raise it effects what you pay them forever more. dom chu, we keep saying these companies got tax cuts. they're going to give raises. but we need to make it clear they don't have to. they're not legally obligated. if you get a tax cut, you have to get a raise. and their stakeholders are their shareholders and their customers. they don't have to give their workers raises. >> no, and you're right. that's the reason why people say trump is going to figure it out. trump says there's no doubt, it's under his watch. the appreciate was built up
coming from the obama administration. what we got to figure out is if companies will react positively. trump threw a lot of his hard work in. now it's going to be whether he's judged on whether corporations do something. we were speaking to rosenberg, who is an economist, and he said the one thing he's watching is the average workweek. that's beyond just the hours in terms of the overall wages. the reason is because corporations will either cut back or add to hours before they cut or add to the actual amount they pay you. it's been holding steady, but that could be the tea leaf that tells you whether or not corporations feel better or
worse. >> in this report, the 42 1/2 hours a week. that's a high since right after the second world war. that's the capacity we're running at. i'm going to stick by my original prediction. eventually this year, we've squeezed everything out of the economy. shy of giving people raises. this is what happens at the end of an economic expansion. we're there. the second it happens, it's going to pop and the president is going to say tax bill. >> he can take credit all he wants. quickly, before we go, the treasury team is in china talking trade. the most recent report is steve mnuchin demanding that the trade deficit go down. >> we balance our budgets. right. the trade deficit is a consequence of the amount of money we're borrowing. this is within our control. we can handle this. we decided not to handle it when
we passed the tax bill. we're going to get economic stimulus. it's going to happen. but what are the costs? one of those costs is the trade deficit they're trying to negotiate away right now. >> i know soybean farmers care since china stopped taking ours. up next, more negative headlines for epa chief pruitt including a report that lobbyist and gop donors played a significant role in mr. pruitt's favorite thing, foreign travel. g the winter of '77. i first met james in 5th grade. we got married after college. and had twin boys. but then one night, a truck didn't stop. but thanks to our forester, neither did our story. and that's why we'll always drive a subaru.
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♪ it is time for money, power, politics. we're talking about epa administrator scott pruitt who's certainly in a lot of headlines today. in the last couple of weeks. first, "the washington post" reports outsiders have played a significant role in planning pruett's foreign travel. we're talking about people who did not work for the actual agency including lobbyists, republican donors and conservative activists. then there's the cnn report that pruitt reimbursed himself for almost 65 grand for his two campaigns for oklahoma attorney general. and "the new york times" reports the epa head bought a home in oklahoma state capital with a registered lobbyist 15 years ago when pruitt was a state senator. the lobbyist was pushing for a change to workers compensation, a stance pruitt fought for while he was in office. administrator pruitt already faces at least 11 federal
investigations into his conduct. and my panel is back. eddie, elise and brendan. elise, to you first, "washington post" reports this, after taking office last year, pruitt drew up a list of at least a dozen countries he hoped to visit and urged aides to help him find official reasons to travel. pruitt then enlisted well connected friends and ploit col allies. i have spoken to people inside the epa who said this is what he wants to do. let's go to italy. let's visit the vatican. let's get gelato. >> israel, don't forget. >> i mean, he is having his team help him plan a visit to israel that was then cancelled. what gives here? >> seems like scott pruitt is more concerned with what donors and lobbyists are interested in having him do as the epa administrator then his job actually as administrator. during the 2016 campaign, the republican primaries, i remember
constantly the refrains of drain the swamp, the washington cartel, lobbyists have too much control. and donald trump also just talking, railing against corporate interests. you look at this is probably the worst case example we've ever had of a cabinet being so overly influenced by just blatant corrupti corruption. >> okay, i want to share cnn's piece because they say during pruitt's general bids, there is, quote, dozens of entries on pruitt's 2010 and '14 campaign finance filings. they show payments to him but they don't have any detail around it. >> i mean, i think this is a classic example of a local player who was not prepared for national scrutiny. i think there's something more cultural. >> that is unfair to say that to really good people on the local level. grifter's gotta grist. >> i think we're saying the same thing -- >> there's a lot of good local players.
>> you can grist for a long time at the local level. >> and then you get caught? >> you only get caught -- let's talk about the word grist. there's a cultural problem with this cabinet. which is if you feel the government itself is a grift, of course you're going to grift the government when you get there because it's all a game to you. yes, the $43,000 phone booth, which is absurd, right, but let's talk about what he's actually doing in the office, right. there is no evidence, and it's important we say no evidence that when we cut regulations the way he's proposed we do it and the way he's been successful in some ways that we're going to get economic growth. cutting regulations does not create economic growth. the economics of this are terrible, right. so all of this action, let's pretend we don't care about the grift. what he's doing in the office is not creating any growth. >> this matters so much because republicans continue to take this side of listen, he's getting so much done.
the thing is he's not actually. >> no. let's pan out a bit. what we see is greed. what we see here is a kind of selfishness. what we see here is narcissism. right, without all the pomp and circumstance. what we see is a complete disregard to the public good. >> add cheesiness to that. >> a whole bunch of words we could use. what we see here is a combination of bad moral character, a disregard for the public good, distilled in this one person, which suggests that our -- i go back to our first segment, stephanie. we are in deep trouble. democracy is in deep trouble. because we have people who claim to lead who have no interest in the basic precipes of the public good. who have no interest in democracy as such. scott pruitt is donald trump on steroids without money. right. so he is just out for scott
pruitt. and the entire cabinet seems to me to be out for themselves. now, the question is, does this go beyond these individuals and cut to the republican party? does it go beyond the republican party and cut to the very state? all of these folk who claim a hold on government. we are in a crisis moment. and we need to understand that. we need to see it without -- >> let's just talk about the job security. there are republicans who are saying i want to look the other way because it is so hard to put somebody in this position, get them confirmed. we've got more and more people leaving the epa this week. the most recent, one of the spokespeople. at no point -- >> well, it's insulting to say scott pruitt is the only man, treating him like he's some savior of regulation inside the epa. they're saying he's just so irreplaceable. i think that's insulting to all the men and women who would do the job and serve the public
interest and not waste taxpayer dollars. i think that your point is very important about what happened in oklahoma just because it's a pattern. you don't just show up suddenly in washington and need the security detail to have the lights blaring, the fancy restaurant. you have a pattern of behavior you were exploiting on a local level. >> he loved every lobbyist, boondoggle, every gas and oil ceo, vacation homes, that's his jam. >> if you subscribe to a philosophy that believes that government is inherently corrupt. the existence of government is the theft of your money through taxes. if you believe that, why would you care about corruption in government? of course in a way your own corrupt behavior is proving your own assumption of what government is. i think there's a deeper philosophical problem. >> the interesting thing is the tension is between holding that claim and at the same time holding a claim that you are somehow this kind of arbiter of
moral excellence. so when you have these two, you're holding both, what you have in effect is a recipe for a hypocrite. >> all right. that is not the case. i will never, ever pledge to be -- what is it? arbiter of moral excellence. >> i'm just quoting. >> i'm going to leave arbiter of moral excellence to my friend eddie and to scott pruitt, please do better. the house chaplain pulls an about-face, taking back his res resignation. how did he go from being forced to resign to standing up to the speaker? eating free waffles at comfort inn. they taste like victory because he always gets the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed, when he books direct at choicehotels.com. or just say badda book, badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com. or just say badda book, badda boom. we danced in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen.man. when i first got on ancestry i was really surprised that i wasn't finding all of these germans in my tree.
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book now at choicehotels.com. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle way head scratcher for me, hopefully we can break it down. the chaplain for the house of representatives has changed his mind and is rescinding his resignation. the reverend patrick conroy says speaker paul ryan's office called for him to resign saying ryan told him it was, quote, in the best interest of the institution. msnbc garrett hake joins me from capitol hill with the latest. back it up for me. what happened here. >> reporter: let me try to explain this.
here's what we know. in the middle of april paul ryan's chief of staff went to the house chaplain and asked him for his resignation. what was said in that meeting is very much in dispute so i'll come back to that later. bottom line, the chaplain offered a resignation letter that paul ryan accepted gnat sort of bubbled up late last week as members of the house heard about this and it bipartisans members were outraged by it. they said there was no reason for conroy to resign, they felt like he was doing a good job and they started to push back and questioning the motives thinking this was a political decision by paul ryan and didn't have anything to do with conroy's work as chaplain. fast forward to late yesterday afternoon the chaplain puts out a letter seasoned he's i'm not going to resign and paul ryan if you have a problem with that you can come down here and fire me. within a short period of time ryan backed down, said he would let the chaplain finish out the year and that he would meet with him next week to discuss why this happened. the chaplain told us there's a lot more to this story. stephanie, the part that's in dispute here is whether there was politics involved in this.
the chaplain gave a prayer in november during the debate about tax reform that some people thought this a political tone to it. he talked about the importance of fairness in the tax code and that is not create winners and losers. some people are pointing to that the. chaplain also says that paul ryan's chief staff made a remark something to the effect maybe it's time for the chaplain to not be catholic. the chief of staff disputes that strongly. paul ryan is, of course, also a catholic. there is definitely more to this story still to come. >> there certainly it. by goodness. thank you so much. coming up in the next hour, former trump campaign manager paul manafort is back in federal court in virginia as the special counsel's team is ramping up the pressure. we'll have a live report from right outside the courthouse.
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and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. no matter what, there's always good news somewhere and we think good news rules. this one rocks. 19-year-old cassie levesque found a problem in her home state of new hampshire. they made it legal for girls as young as 13 years old and boys as young as 14 to marry adults with permission from their parents in a court. the young cassie set out to change things. as of this week, both chambers of the new hampshire state legislature have voted to change the law. cassie joins me now. cassie, congratulations in the has been a journey. the first bill you put forward set the age at 18, it failed. this week 16 is the new law. how'd do you it?
>> first, i went to my team after my bill was killed and they asked me do you want to keep continuing on? i said, yes droir. i don't want to give up. i want to keep fighting. and next thing i know, we have three more bills heading for the house of representatives and next thing you know they get passed and then we're on to the senate and that gets passed through committee and then on the senate floor. and it was just an amazing experience. >> how do you feel? >> very excited and very proud of myself for changing something in my state that has been on the books for 100 years and it's finally changed. >> cassie, you are the change that you wanted to see. new hampshire is just one state that has these laws. a lot of others do. are you going to take this show on the road? >> i don't know yet. i am working on getting my
degree and figuring things out from there. >> what is your message to other teenagers, young adults who want to see changes in their communities? >> to never give up and to keep fighting even though you may have people that are against you to just ignore them and focus on the penl that are fople that ar to keep going and fighting. >> congratulations. girl scout leader from the state of new hampshire, a change maker right there. that's wraps us up this hour. i'm a very proud and enthusiastic stephanie ruhle. coming up right now, must news with hallie jackson. hallie, how about that story? >> love it. a proud and enthusiastic describes a lot of folks when it comes to that. thank you so much. we're coming up to the end of a roller coaster weekend, but the right is not over yet. because paul manafort is back in federal court this morning. he's asking a judge to drop some charges brought by the special counsel.
so we're live at the white house with the chances of that actually happening for the former head of the trump campaign. plus, can't stop won't stop, rudy giuliani is not stopping but that may be creating a credibility constitutional rights sis for the white house. we're laying out the top four reasons why rudy giuliani could be make the special counsel's job easier. six months out from the biggest primary day yet, let's call it drks "d" day because it's big on the ballot for the democrats. the chair of democratic congression a.m. campaign committee will be here live. we want to start first with our justice correspondent pete williams. you were watching the developments happen in court as it relates to paul manafort. explain how this is part of the bigger robert mueller investigation. >> he's challenging robert muellerer's jurd diction to having ever brought these charges. he made the same argument over separate charges in the district of