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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  May 5, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT

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that's it for us. i'm david gura and we will be back here at 5:00 p.m. eastern time, and you can join us 2:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m. eastern time tomorrow, and right now o, the news continues with gee gee stone woods. >> thank you. i'm at the msnbc headquarters in new york. close to home, robert mueller has interview ed one of trump's closest friends and signs that he could be getting close nor the inner circle of the president. who is next? and who knows that president tr trump is aware of the 100,000 payment to stormy daniels months before he denied knowledge of it.
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>> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? why did you go to have mr. stone make it? is >> well, you have to ask michael stone. he is my attorney, and you have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money? >> no, i don't know. and president trump and the chief of staff publicly make nice with each other after rumors that john kelly's days in the west wing are numbered. president trump is expected to arrive back at the white house after touting the tax plan in cleveland. the trip ahead of the ohio primary is coming after the president is facing new questions about the stormy daniels' controversy. the new york times is saying that he knew about the michael cohen payments to the porn star months before he denied it aboard air force one. and now, with two people familiar with the arrangement, it is specifying that it is not clear when trump actually learned of the payment.
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and now, nbc reached ofout the president's outside legal team, and they declined to respond. meanwhile, the "wall street journal" is saying that public records are showing that cohen gained access to as much as $774,000 from a line of credit and a remortgage in the 2016 presidential election campaign. and when reached out to the campaign, they did not respond. and joining us is the political reporter and a political analysis from mother jones, and also a political correspondent from politico. thank you all for being here. >> good to be with you. >> great. start with this latest new york times report that president trump allegedly knew about the stormy daniels' payment, and the scandal has not affected president trump plolitically so far, so does it change anything in your opinion? >> i don't think that it changes anything for the people who are with the president trump and we have seen it all along, and the people with him, with him
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regardless of the stor roifs stormy daniels and the people against him or concerned about what is happening in the white house, the alarm bells have been going off for some time, but this latest report by "the new york times" does ring true that the video that you were playing that president trump on air force one denying that he knew anything about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels did not pass the smell test, and any lawyer would say that is an unusual arrangement. i don't usually make arrangements or enter into contracts for a clientf of mine without my client being aware or paying the bill for them, and so it does ring true, but as we know there are all sorts of questions, and before this report came out, the president claiming that all of the information related to stormy daniels is inaccurate and not providing anymore clarity himself. >> right. and definitely a lot of it is unusual here in the lack of clarity, and david, an exchange of the reporters and the president yesterday on the stormy daniels' situation.
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>> mr. president, why did you change your story on the stormy daniels -- >> we are not changing any stories. all i am telling you is that this country right now is run sog smooth, and to be bringing up that kind of ocrap, and to be bringing up witch hunts all of the time that you want to talk about, you will -- excuse me, excuse me, you have to -- >> but you authorized the payment. >> you take a look at what i said, and you will see what i said. >> you said no when i asked you -- >> excuse me, you go and take a look at what we said. >> and everyone did take a look at what he said and he said flat out that he did not know about the payment or where michael cohen got the money, and why so many conflicting statements about the president and the team when it come fs to the stormy daniels' mess? >> we have seen more stories on this from them than there are in trump tower. and you can why? i believe it is a cover-up, and stonewalling and they don't want to tell the truth. people often say that the crime is worse than the cover-up, and
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i mean the excuse me, i have to get this right. people say that the cover-up is worse than the crime, and often in some cases particularly with donald trumn, the crime is worse than the cover-up, because they are denying again and again that there was even an affair which is silly to deny it now, and are we to believe that the greatest dealmaker of all time had to pay $130,000 to somebody for a false allegation? nothing here adds up, and they are changing the story, because they are not el thing the truth. and why are they not tell ing the truth? because it is highly embarrassing or legal or both that is at the center of this. >> and at lot of attempts to clarify it, and yesterday, the president tried to clarify his statements made by attorney general -- rudy giuliani, the latest counsel regard iing the payout, and listen to his can comments and then the president.
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>> that money is not campaign money. sorry. i am giving you a fact now that you don't know. it is not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> so they funneled it to the law firm. >> and funneled through the law firm, and the president repaid it. >> rudy made the statement, and he is great, but he just start and he ist not totally familiar with everything. >> and so hours after the president's comment, giuliani issued another statement walking back the comment, and how do giuliani's comments affect the stormy daniel's case, and a lawyer is supposed to clean up the mess, and now it seems that giuliani made a few ones. >> he is certainly not helping the client here by one for suggesting that the payment was in fact tied to the campaign and he could be putting at least michael cohen in legal jeopardy if this is a campaign-related payment, and it was not r registered with the fcc that it
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was above the limit that cohen could give, and he could be in trouble there. and the question of when the president did or did not know about the payment could create problems for cohen if he were to have some how made this payment without the client's knowledge, and that could be a matter with the bar association and the big problem for it, and it is extraordinary to have one of the new lawyers sort of screwing up, and explain the expletive of one of trump's lawyers that he has had for a long time, and this man is the president of the united states, and he seems unable to find and keep a con -- koom pe tent legal team. >> well, the public is getting used to this sort of thing. and now, giuliani was not the first lawyer for this position, because he had reached out to a number of lawyer, and so are they still being gung ho for
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giuliani or what -- >> well, the president is erratic and unstable and blows hot and cold, and he tried to clean up rudy's mess yesterday, and said that, rudy will be doing better in days ahead when he is more familiar with the case even though no responsible lawyer would ever go on tv to talk about a case without knowing the details. a and so he is seeming to be standing by him right now, and maybe because he is the last lawyer standing rudy giuliani and it is true. when ted olson turned down the ability or the opportunity to join rudy giuliani's team, afterward afterwards he told me that no other lawyer in washington came up to say, hey, i will take this job. they can't find lawyers who want to work for donald trump. >> well, they are kindred spirits in calling it a a witch hunt, but i want to turn to "the wall street journal" report, grace, that michael cohen received hundreds of thousands of dollars in the home equity
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line of credit, and investigators want to know what the money is for, and are they going be looking into that? what are the political implications of this? >> well, they will be going through all of michael cohen's money, and the implications are significant for the president. the way that he has handled the st stormy daniels' payment is speaking to the way that he is used to operating as a private citizen and presumably with the nondisclosure agreements like stormy daniels on the sign, and if he is publicly challenged or something, he would deny it, but now that he is president, and when he was a candidate of the president, it opened him up to a whole host of legal questions and pitfalls that previously were not an issue for him, and so that is also part of the reason why we have seen the president almost tying himself into knots telling one story one day and the next ta day so much confusion, but not providing the clarity and the reports nout "the new york times" saying that he has known about the payment for months. so nobody was ever look agent his business dealings or his personal dealings with any type
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of major scrutiny, and he is used to going back to the same old playbook which is to publicly deny and throw up the smoke screen and bring a bulldog lawyer and now in this case, rudy giuliani out to defend him. but the u.s. attorney's office is going to be going through all of michael cohen's business dealings, and michael cohen in addition to being somebody who is a fixerer for the president had all sorts of business dealings that may lead back to tr trump and the trump organization in some way. >> well, a loft interesting revelations stille to come for sure. grace, ben, and david, thank you for joining us. >> sure thing. >> thanks for having us. and up next, a revelation that a close friend of donald trump has given to robert muell mueller's team, and what that might mean for the investigation. stay with us. s it? s it? well, if you have a discover card, it's free. no way! yes way! we just think it's important for you to be in the know.
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i would love to speak. i would love to. and nobody wants to speak more than me, and in fact, against my lawyer, because most of the lawyers say never speak on anything, but i would love to speak. because we have done nothing wrong. if i thought that it was fair, i would override my lawyers. >> president trump on friday talking about the mueller investigation and new this afternoon, msnbc news has confirmed that mueller's team has interviewed the president's long time friend and adviser tom b barrack, and this is according to a person who has first-hand knowledge that the interview took place in december. he was asked extensive questions about the long time trump
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campaign manager paul manafort and rick gates. and so joining us is former cia officer and author of "the president's book of secrets" and barbara, political reporter. what specifically could the special counsel be looking to learn from him? >> well, i would think that in light of the roles as a fund-raiser, they would be looking for the links between russia and the trump campaign through the financial contributions. it is illegal as we have all learned by now to accept or solicit the campaign donations from the foreign national or foreign entity, and so it is unlikely that the trump campaign would have solicited those directly, but as a key fund-raiser, was barrack aware of any diverted funds that went to organizations for example that were then spent on behalf of president trump for ish ads
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for example, so a list of tom c tommics that they might be interested in finding out. the fact that he is asked questions does not mean that he did anything wrong, but in a position to observe things that might be useful in the investigati investigation. >> could they be asking him information that might be helpful in the regards of the paul manafort case? >> sure. because of the light of the timing in descember. that point, they had indicted paul manafort and rick gates and then later superseded the indictments which means between october and the superseding indictments in late 2013, there was a addition a investigation going on, and so it seems possible and likely that they were asking him questions about manafort and gates and among other topics. >> and there was sort of a bombshell from the mueller case, and david, friday, they asked if mueller is overstepping the author any the case of manafort. let's listen to president yesterday. >> how does this have anything
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to do with the campaign, the judge asked. let me tell you, folks, we are all fighting battles, but i love fighting these battles. it is a disgrace. it is happening, and it is a disgrace. >> well sh, now, the judges are supposed to be impartial and are the judges' remarks surprising to you? and that manafort may succeed in getting the charges dropped? >> they are surprise ing ing to because it sounds like the grounds for an appeal later if the decision is coming down against the prosecutors, but it seems unlikely, and in fact, i have spoken to several people who have argued before, and they say it is not atypical, a and that means that he is often very hard on the prosecution, and then ruled for the prosecution. this is a way of essentially checking them, a socratic method of going at a them to make sure that the reasoning is sound, and to see what they say of what is behind it. and frankly, the intent behind the mueller team's prosecution is not that important. what it really goes back to is
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what is the mission? they were charged originally by the deputy general rosenstein with the relation of the russian collusion in the 2016 campaign and related matters, and this is clearly the related manner if it is talking about manafort and gates and no grounds for the president to say it is not. >> and mueller is interviewing to the people closer and closer to trump. and barbara, politico is saying that they may be saving his children for last s. there a significant risk for mueller if he tries to question members of the family, and rudy giuliani said that the country would turn against the country if he tries to question ivanka, but he did make a statement about kushner being deposable. >> well, he is off base, because if he is just interviewing because of ofamily members, and if he wanted to question melania trump or barron trump, but
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because they are presidential advisers and ivanka and jared kushner, and donald trump jr. who was part of the trump tower meeting, it is fair game because of the roles and not the family relations. i would expect that robert mueller would want to question them, and you work on the the outside and work in and as you get closer to people who are targets of investigation and so it does not surprise me that he would save them for the end, but he would want to question them, and it is appropriate to do so >> he has a clear strategy. giuliani is also saying that if joule y giuliani does sit down mueller, he wants guidelines and paramet parameters, limiting it to no more than three hours and not being under oath, and maybeking the focus on the russian tampering in the 2016 election. and we have breakdown of the leaks this week, and could that help the president in the parameters and the leaked questions, barbara? >> sure. i think that all of those help
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him. i think that as part of the negotiation strategy, it is a perfectly appropriate for giuliani to do that and now, robert mueller does not have to agree with any of that. they have shared the questions in the effort to induce president trump to sit down and say, look, these questions are straight forward. and in that negotiation, it will continue, because robert mueller would rather get president trump to sit down voluntarily rather than the risk and delay of trying to get a subpoena to get him, but at the end of the day, if robert mueller wants this testimony, he can get it with the subpoena or he may decide, you know what, this is your chance to tell your side of the story, and if you don't want to avail yourself of it, i will be on my way and finish the report. either way, robert mueller holds the cards here. he may agree to some of the considerations just in an effort to get where he wants to go. >> and giuliani is a new voice to this conversation, and how does it help or hurt the president that a number of versions of this story are circulating, david? >> well, it is odd to me, because giuliani is out there speaking, as the president's
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attorney, and when you are doing that, you have the air of authority speaking for the president, but he is not limited to pure legal issues, and he is talking a about the north korean held hostages and matters of national security can and policy, but there is no indication that he has inside information on, that and if he does, then he has some more explaining to do, because how is he sitting in on the secret level or the top secret level meetings related to the toings when by all accounts, he does not have an active security clearance allowing him to do so, so it is eitherspeaking on behalf of the president or having access to issues that he should not have, and so we are listening to joule ygiuliani no much about the president's poll sbishgs tow figure out, is he going to be telling us more like the stor themy daniels' payoffs that gives bob mueller and his team more information to bring
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this to a conclusion. >> well, giuliani is not used to having his statements carefully monitor and this is new for him. thank you barbara, and dennis for joining us. >> thank you. and still ahead, we have mixed messages. president trump reassuring the gun owners that he has their backs at the nra convention, nearly two months after he has promised families that he will take action on the gun control a. student who survived the parkland shooting in florida responds to the president's comments. the next up that you don't want to miss. believe the health we aof our water sourcesany is essential to the health of our communities. which is why we're helping to replenish the mighty rio grande as well as over 30 watersheds across the country. we're also leading water projects in more than 100 communities. and for every drop we use... we're working to give one back.
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welcome back. the national rifle association is holding the annual convention right now in dallas. president trump addressing the group for the fourth r year in a row pledging his support for the nr, and the second amendment after vowing to get tough on guns following the parkland school shooting. >> your second amendment rights are under siege, but they will never, ever be under siege as long as i'm your president. >> msnbc's savannah sellers is live at the nra convention in dallas. savannah, how are these
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conventiongoers responding to the the president's speech there? >> well, first of all, you see that there are a lot of conventiongoers. it is absolute ly packed in her in this room. i was actually talking to a family that is three generations from a 14-year-old grandson all of the way up to the 75-year-old grand grandfather here, and i was asking them what they felt about president trump's speech as you mentioned, and they had told me that they feel that similarly to what some of the park sland students have called out, and cameron pasky calling him a p professional liar and they felt that he flip-flops and does strongly support the nra and the second amendment and in front of different crowds he says different things. the 75-year-old is a vietnam veteran says he does not feel that way. he fully and unequivocally supports trump and he is appreciative of trump and pence's appearance here, and he says that down to twitter, it is the way of getting the message out, and he agrees with it, but there are views here, and we
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wanted to dig into the younger side of it, and you know, gun control debate kind of for the first time has a teenageds face. so we spoke to a 19-year-old girl, sidney who is a college student, and member of the sorority and the nra and we wanted to know for her what is it about the guns and the second amendment and what it means to you, and this is what she said. >> you should be able to protect yourselves and the surroundings and if that is number one, and if you can do that while you are in a room together or out there of age and the proper training and everything, it is a good thing. >> reporter: right across the street, and near prox simity to where we are at right now in the convention center are people your age who are protesting just this event itself. >> yep. >> reporter: nevermind guns. >> yes. >> reporter: what would you say to them? >> i would say come out and learn, and what after you have come out and learn and take a class on the gun safety. >> reporter: so sidney's big
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message there was gun safety, and she feels that since she has grown up with guns and know thousands use them and clean them and she said that to treat it like a person is a quote from her, and she is comfortable with them, and any change to gun control is an attack on the second amendment, and so you know, we are hearing a lot of the gun control advocates using the term common sense gun reform, and for everyone that i have spoken with here, there is not a lot that they are willing to budge on besides the background check, and i asked sidney about the ar-15s and she said just to do, and pick that one particular weapon is a band-aid on the bigger issue that she believes is more c connected to the mental health issues or the the criminal who gets a gun and no matter, what they will do something wrong. so we have been asking people about the common sense gun reform, and that is what we have been hearing so far. >> interesting perspective. savannah sellers, thank you. i want to bring in edadam alante, a survivor of the
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marjory stoneham high school in parkland, florida, and we have just heard from a young woman at the nra convention saying that you need to learn more about guns and take a lesson and what is your response? >> well, we have had our lesson. i did take a lesson sitting under a disk when nikolas cruz was killing 17 members of my school. so i think that is a good enough lesson for me. >> you all have done a wonderful job of getting the points across and smart messaging. i want to ask you about the president's speech at the nra convention and get your reaction on the other side from what he was saying. >> 98% of mass public shootings have occurred in places where guns are banned. just so you understand. tragically as we have seen, there's no sign more inviting to a mass killer than a sign that
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declares this school is a gun-free zone. come in and take us. >> what do you think of that? the president's suggestion that more guns in school would make students feel safer? >> yeah, i think that is an absolute crazy assumption that it would work. i know plenty of teachers who really think that there are many of things that we can do to protect our schools rather than putting more guns into them. it is honestly, i think a plot for the nra to just sell more guns. we are not helping our teachers and students. we are really just putting more fear into them by making the schools like prisons. >> you have been through so much, and it is unimaginable and how has it been for you lately? it has been a few months since this tragedy, and do you feel any safer? >> no, i actually don't feel any safer. sure, we have got kids going to
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school with clear backpacks now, but i recently learned that if you bring in a sidebag or the lunchbox, it is randomly searched. so we are kind of, you know, still gambling on the students in the sense that anyone can bring in a weapon and now we are just can checking one or two of them. >> well, we do have to take moves forward and we have the march for our lives in dc that you and your fellow students supported, but congress has resisted passing any meaningful gun control measures and is the momentum for change still there and what needs the be done to get the laws on the books? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, there are plenty of congressmen and women who still are not doing their job, and listening to the people, and this is all right, because in november, we will have change there. is plenty of momentum, and you know, we are still going, and if they are not going to work for it, we will. >> and the students from your high school have been using the really creative methods the try
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to get the word across, and tell us a little bit about what they are trying to do, and what you are trying to do. >> yeah, so, we are trying to basically unite the fight. we are really trying to spread basically all across the nation, and, you know, even parts of the world to get students together and get our voice to unite and make it louder, and, you know, unite with each other whether it is republican or democrat, to really link arms and make change. >> we will be watching it closely. adam alhanti, thank you for your time. >> thank you. coming up, damage control. from rudy giuliani's media blitz to the reports of the fate of the chief of staff john kelly. take a closerer look at the white house's attempt to restore order after this week of con tr controver si. stick around.
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time or were you in the dark? >> the president has denied a and continues to deny the underlying claim, and again, i have given the best information that i had at the time. sarah sanders like many white house staffers were caught off guard by rudy giuliani's statements of reimbursing the lawyer about stormy daniels. this is the latest example of the disarray in the white house. and the reports of the president and the chief of staff john kelly are not on the same page,
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and the two men appeared together fridays the president prepared to travel to dallas. >> general kelly is doing a fantastic job, and such false reporting about the relationship, and we have great relationship. he is doing a great job as chief of staff. >> it sn an absolute privilege for a president who has gotten the economy going. >> and one doth protest too much. and now, i am joined by the communications director for priorities usa, and the spokesperson for hillary for president campaign, and also, jennifer, a reporter for her blog. and so there is statement s ts are completely contradicting what the white house is saying, and how does it happen that they do not get the story straight first before he goes on national television? >> because they are making it up as they go along and lying and
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steaming, and saying this is going to work and sound smart, and they don't communicate with the real lawyers who obviously had to clean up the mess. and this is the way it has always been with trump. his attachment to reality is onlies and the jen -- only tangential, and so he is living where the facts are where people will buy what he says and they can't keep the story straight. it is not surprising at a time at a time when they need to get together and decide on one set of facts and decide the truth is or the best approximation, and they are utter ly at a loss to o sond ate does not matter who the attorney is. the fact that he got rudy giuliani is going to be worse, because rue sdi not much of a lawyer and after all of these decades, he is a gad fly and tv pund pundit, but any of them, and we have seen a parade of them going in and out, and it is a problem. >> is this deliberate or by design to confuse and muddle the message? >> well, only if trump does not
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want to to be president anymore, and this is some kind of death wish. i do not buy, a i have never bought the idea that this guy is playing five-dimensional chess or something like ta that. listen, there is no excuse for this, and the fact that they had to the clean it up themselves, and i think that should dispel the motion that there is some kind of plan or purpose here. rudy giuliani basically made new sources of liability for the president, and gave new avenue nors for the prosecution, and no one plans that, and i think that first of all, not getting the best lawyers and to work for them, and secondly, they are making it up. and it is hard keep the story straight if you are make stuff up. >> it is an argument touted out there. and josh, giuliani made some other controversial statements and not just the ones we were discussing and about the president's so-called muslim ban. >> i will tell you the whole history of it. when he first announced it, he called it a muslim ban and he
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said put a commission together and show me the right way to do it legally, and so we focused on instead of religion, danger. >> so listen, given the instances, giuliani advising the president makes sense at this point? >> it is a little absurd, but it is exactly what you would expect from trump. he has this guy going out here who is clearly shooting from the hip, and accidentally sometimes telling the truth what we saw with the muslim ban clip, and the admitted that the stormy daniels' payment is for campaign purposes from coming out in the middle of the debate, and so these are not lies about the crowd size, and these are lies that increase the legal liability for the president and huge repercussions as mueller looks into them. >> and someone was brought in to bring order to the white house general kelly and we saw him are making nice with the president, but the role according to a number of reports is diminishing, and if he cannot control the president, does it seem that anyone can? >> no, i don't think that there
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is, and i really don't even buy the notion that at one point kelly did have him under cont l control. we have had non-stop gaffes and non-stop confusion, and turnover in the white house. so, i think it goes from bad to worse, and there is no one else who is going to do a better job with donald trump. donald trump does whatever he wants, and that is how he occupies his time by creating chaos, and by telling out and out lies to the public, and by scheming with the close bud ddi, and some who have left the campaign or the job and i have thought for some time that general kelly should step back and save whatever dig nity he hs and go back to private life. >> and speaking of the close buddies that have left the white house, and a new wrench here. what about reports that the president is talking to steve bannon again and following the release of the book "fire and fury" and what about bannon being heard at the white house, and apparently speaking to corey
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lewandowski as well. >> well, trump, if you are kicked out of the circle, wait a while, and he is going to bring you, because and there an odd sort of loyalty, and the people who hang out around him know that they are going to be get getting their time in the sun again. it does not matter how bad they are for the can country, and bannon is clearly a terrible person, but they will come back and tell trump things that make him feel good about himself and he likes people who agree with him, and go on tv to parrot the points that he likes, and so of course, he will bring them back, and fall out of favor, and then he will bring them back. it is a cycle with donald trump. >> and people have figured tout key to get his ear. and thank you both for being with us. thanks. coming up, we have the final countdown. the iran nuclear deal is expiring one week from today, and will president trump stay in or will he walk away? we will talk about it up next. to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing...
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12th, we will make a decision. >> all right. next saturday marking a critical deadline for the fate of the iran nuclear deal. by may 12th, president trump must decide whether to renew the sanctions. the sanctions cover the iranian bank and oil asset, and president trump warned in january that the u.s. was waving the sanctions for the last time. he said that another waver was off of the table unless the deal was a addressed to -- was negotiated to address the flaws. and thank you for joining us, ron. ron, i want to walk through it. seven parties to the agreement, iran and the u.s., and u.k., and russia, china, germany and france. and the u.s. allies agree that the deal is not perfect, so what is your argument for the u.s. staying in the agreement? >> well, first of all, we knew that ten years ago, iran had lied and trying to develop a nuclear program, and president bush had declassify ied the
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organization, and this is why many of us worked on the sanctions program that was eventually shown effective and brought iran to the table. what that told us is distrust and verify. distrust iran and verify whatever you need to verify to make sure they won't develop a nuclear weapon which is what the agreement is all about. there is not a lot of question that we know through all of the inspections around and the international inspections that they have been stopped in the tracks for doing that, and now, i think that the next question is, what if we walk away and what does that mean? that is the conversation taking place right now. >> say we remain in the deal, and walking away with is one option, but if we say in it, and try to amend the flaws, what leverage does the u.s. have to renegotiate the deal? >> well, the united states has very little leverage on its own, and it only has leverage if the other parties are part of the conversation, and putting the pressure across the board on iran, because if we all say that we will pull back and put
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sanctions back on them, that is a whole different deal than the united states doing it alone. we heard from both france and germany that they are not necessarily interested in pulling out. iran is playing the cards in a way that they know that only the united states pulls out, maybe it is a justification for them to restart the nuclear weapons program which is problematic for israel, and the united states and the whole world. >> potentially very dangerous, and the international officials are saying that they have not seen evidence that iran is out of compliance, but president trump is saying that they are violating the spirit of the deal by assertioning aggression in iraq and syria and yemen, and do you agree that iran is in violation of the spirit of the agreement or as israeli president benjamin netanyahu y says much worse? what are you in agreement with? >> they are not in violation of the agreement, but in violation of a whole number of things that we care about, ba lllistic missiles and hezbollah and syria
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and whole with other things that we care about, and as an aside, we, the united states, should put pressure on russia to take its responsibility in pulling back iran and dealing with the issues, there is not a violation of the agreement, itself, but clearly, again, the way that we deal with the threats that iran is putting forward to israel and the united states and everything else is to work and build on the agreement. if you pull back, we have lost the leverage or whatever negotiating power we have to deal with all tof the other threats to our country, and israel and other countries in the region. >> and the french president emanuel macron agrees with you. after the visit to the united states, he spoke to a reporter from a german magazine, and this is what he said, he told the reporter that if trump were to simply withdraw from the deal, that would mean opening up pandora's box, and could mean war, but i don't believe that donald trump wants war. is he right? is war a consequence of the u.s. walking away from the deal? >> well, it is. obviously, we are dealing with a very, very serious situation
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here. and iran is clearly a threat to our interests, and we want to keep it in check. we certainly don't want them to have a nuclear weapon, and again, i think that where we need to, and we can't do it alone where donald trump is wrong is that this is not the united states dictating to the rest of the world. we have allies, and partners in the process, so we need those partners to be with us when we are dealing with iran's other threats, the terrorism, and the ballistic missiles and we can't do it alone. so yes, a possibility of this unwinding and a misstatement the or mistake made by one party or another, and israel has a deep interest in thing, and they are close to us, so we want them to be protected as well. >> what do you think that the president is going to do and how do you see this playing out before we leave you? >> well, he is indicating that he wants to pull out, and again, i think that the new secretary of state bolton and who he is now surrounding himself with are different than the more
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moderating members of the previous cabinet would lend support to pulling out. i don't think that mr. mat tis would agree, but that is what a appears to be the direction, and that is is a big, big mistake. >> we will be watch. former representative ron klein, thanking for sharing your expertise with us. all right. coming up, hawaii with the strongest eruption of a volcano in years. we will have a live report from the ground next up. xxx. it's just a burst pipe, i could fix it. (laugh) no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up
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people in hawaii are bracing
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for more earthquake, lava and toxic gas. yesterday, two earthquakes shook hawaii including a 6.9 magnitude quake, the strong toast hit the area in more than four decades. the quakes come a day after the kilauea volcano started to spew lava on the big island. we have steve in hawaii with us, and how are the earthquakes affecting the evacuations? >> well, luckily, gigi, the areas where they have struck are in the rural area, and people are able to get out in time, and officials with the national guard are make sure that the process is smooth for those folks in the evacuation zones, but this is hot and heavy. i mean, you are talk about in the last 24 hours, 1,800 people under mandatory evacuations, and we have had these volcanic active fissures opening up in people's communities, and these are like cracks in the earth that spill out the hot lava that
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is cutting through the for estand in communities and countrysides and along the big island and along with that, as you have mentioned, the massive quakes. we had the largest quake to hit this area in the last 48 year, and strike a 6.9 yesterday. felt from here, and all of the way to honolulu and not mention the accompanying minor quakes that we have had leading up to this event and during event. estimated 500, and that is leading to rock slides and mud flows and possible more damage on the roads where people are trying to get out. and not only that, but you have also mentioned die sulfuric dioxide is the dangerous gas that are in these evacuation zone, and making sure that people don't get close to it. it is, again a toxic gas and if you are very young or very old or if you have respiratory problems or asthma, that is a dead lay substance if you inhale too much.
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so at lot to consider when you are in this area. again, the national guard is in place to make sure that the people stay a wway from where t volcanic activity is the worst. but officials have no idea when it could end. it could end in the next couple of hours or the next few week, and so they are keeping an eye on it, and they have not heard or felt any of the aftershocks since the big one yesterday, but it does not mean that there are not more sort of in the chamber waiting to be unleashed in this area. gigi. >> stay safe. so far the authorities are doing a great job, and it does highlight the power of mother natu nature. steve patterson, thank you. that it ist for this hour. i'm gigi stone woods, and thes e david gura. >> thank you, gigi. we have learned that robert mueller has interviewed president trump's close friend tom barrack. and a special counsel is
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accused of using paul manafort to get to the president. who knew what and when and new accusations that trump knew about the stormy daniels' payout months before. that is where we begin this hour. last night "the new york times" broke the story that the president knew about his attorney michael cohen's payments to stormy daniels quote, several months before he denied any knowledge of it to the reporter aboard air force one in april, and this is according to two people familiar with the arrangement, and nbc news reached out to the outside legal team, and they declined to respond, and last night, "the wall street journal" came out with the report of michael cohen through the public records that michael cohen gained access to $774,000 from the line of credit that a new mortgage of the 216 presidential campaign, and they said that they reached out to cohen and his attorney, but they did not respond to the request for comment. for more on this, we bring in betsy woodruff, a politics reporter for daily beast, and msnbc contributor as well,

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