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tv   MSNBC Live With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  May 7, 2018 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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that category. i'm not sure trump will ever have that kind of reevaluation but it has happened before and we may see it happen again. >> meacham will be back all week as we look for the soul of america and stand at the edge of chaos. the big question today is will they let rudy in front of the camera again. >> speaking of chaos. >> i'm serious, will they let him get in front of a camera. >> let's hope. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> thanks, mika, hi, joe. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today, starting with the blitz is on. rudy giuliani telling nbc he believes robert mueller is setting the precedent up for perjury and raises new concerns about a possible sit-down with the special counsel. >> you couldn't put a lawyer on this show who wants to keep his law license to tell you he should testify. >> plus, hawaii on high alert. officials warn nearly 2,000 residents to evacuate as the world's most active volcano erupts, destroyi ining everythin
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its path. >> just the thought of losing everything we worked so hard for. and my kids childhood home. >> i say it all the time, follow the money. >> i'm the king of debt. i'm great with debt. nobody knows debt better than me. i've made a fortune by using debt. >> a closer look at how and why the self-proclaimed king of debt suddenly stopped borrowing and used more than 400 million bucks in cash to purchase new properties. we begin this morning, you know with what, with rudy giuliani, adding to his series of head spinning remarks over the weekend. mr. giuliani himself says the media blitz is working exactly as planned. but many outsiders including conservatives see it as a public relations disaster. i have a great team here to break all of it down and maybe answer that question. we're going to get to them. first, if you thought rudy giuliani was going to take the
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weekend off, you were sorely mistaken. he hit "the washington post," nbc, fox and abc, trying to defend the president, but raising a ton of new questions about all of it in the process. take this for example. about the president's knowledge of payments to stormy daniels. >> are you confident that michael cohen never told president trump that i made this payment in order -- >> number one, why would i be and why would i be concerned when it's not a campaign con treb bution. it was done for other purposes in addition to possible campaign purposes. >> oke doek. so it wasn't a campaign contribution but it may have to do with campaign purposes. by the way, later in that interview, he said the payment, quote, may have involved the campaign but that it doesn't matter. so what about the question of what cohen told trump about the money? >> you acknowledge that michael cohen would tell the president
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this is what it's for? >> on october 15th, 16th, right before the election, $130,000 payment when there were other -- i did make clear, and i don't know what they are yet, i will know, there were other things involved that had nothing to do with stormy daniels. >> so what other things is he talking about? remember, giuliani told nbc news that cohen was paid nearly half a million bucks while on retainer with the president. nearly four times what was paid to stormy daniels. so here's the big question, what was that money for? >> you said he -- this is a regular arrangement. did michael cohen make payments for the president? >> i have no knowledge of that. i would think if it was necessary, yes. >> if it was necessary yes. all of this focuses on one single issue. but giuliani himself wondered why bob mueller would go through all of this over just $130,000 payment to a porn star. >> the question there was the
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only possible violation there would be was it a campaign finance violation. which usually would result in a fine, by the way, not this big stormtroopers coming in and breaking down his apartment and breaking down his office. >> stormtrooper, stormy daniels, wow, where does all of this leave the president. even conservative publicationings are starting to question the strategy. "the wall street journal," remember, owned by rupert murdoch, ran an editorial insist, quote, the attempted cover-up has done greater harm than any affair would have. criticized evangelicals for defending the president that, quote, has been caught lying repeatedly and regularly. shot president go to mueller and try to clear his name? on that issue, he and giuliani are definitely not on the same page. >> i would love to speak. i would love to go. nothing i want to do more. because we did nothing wrong. >> when i'm facing a situation with the president, other
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lawyers are, in which every lawyer in america thinks he'd be a fool to testify, i've got a client who wants to testify. >> i would override my lawyers. >> said, i hope we get a chance to tell him the risk that he's taking. >> giuliani also suggested that the president may not testify at all. >> what happens if robert mueller subpoenas the president, will you comply? >> well, we don't have to. the president of the united states. we can assert the same privileges as other presidents have. >> he is talking about taking the fifth amendment. but remember, on the campaign trail, trump said no one who's innocent would plead the fifth, just listen. >> fifth amendment, fifth amendment, fifth amendment. horrible. horrible. if five people take the fifth amendment like you see on the mob, right, you see the mob. if you're innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment? >> why wouldn't he testify?
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here's what giuliani had to say about that. >> what is the danger in answering robert mueller's questions? >> because they're trying to trap -- you couldn't put on a lawyer on the show who wants to keep his license that will tell you he should justify. >> -- if he doesn't tell the truth. >> no, it's only prosecutorial if they have built-up manipulated evidence. >> if you have evidence that prove also he doesn't tell the truth, then the president didn't tell the truth. >> no, people do things like lie. >> nbc's peter alexander joins me from the white house. peter, you yourself spoke to rudy giuliani. i want to get into what else he told you. because we keep hearing, this thing's taking forever, time to wrap it up. matthew dowd said benghazi was a four-year investigation, no indictments. hillary's e-mails, two-year
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investment, no indictments. president trump, 14 months, over 20 indictments. how is it that giuliani can say this thing's taking forever and they've got nothing to show for it? >> including the indictment of his former campaign chairman paul manafort. rudy made note of the fact they're approaching the one-year mark since robert mueller was appointed, that's may 17th, suggesting that was a better education of how long this was going. he accuses investigators of being heavy handed when we spoke. he said they were setting the president up for perjury during this conversation. saying he and the president are in agreement over what he called division of tasks where the president stays focused on his duties and giuliani focuses on the legal case. obviously that did not last long. the president's this morning on twitter and he's teeing off. he writes the witch hunt is losing credibility. so now the probe says, okay, what else is there, how about
quote
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obstruction for a made-up phony crime. there is no o. presumably he means obstruction. he writes, the 13 angry democrats in charge of the russian witch hunt are starting to find out that there is a court system in place that actually protects people from injustice and just wait till the courts get to see your unrevealed conflicts of interest. part of that tweet appears to be a reference to pointed criticism from a federal judge of mueller's handling of the paul manafort case. giuliani said that that makes the president, quote, more reluctant to testify. he insisted to me that mueller privately, as you were talking about, stef, expressed sensitivity about the length of this investigation. telling him and the president's legal team, quote, he's sensitive to the fact it's been going too long. i should note i spoke to a former federal prosecutor who worked closely with mueller when he led the fbi. he said there wasn't, quote, a chance in hell that mueller would have said that.
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finally, giuliani said to me that he and the president haven't come to any agreement on how his bills will be paid. for the moment, giuliani says he has offered to volunteer his services, stef. >> volunteer his services. i want to bring my panel in. phillip rutger is a white house bureau chief for the washington. noel nikpor author of with the branding america." and kately huey burns, real clear politics. i want to share that giuliani told your paper "the washington post." quote, we all feel pretty good that we've got everything kind of straightenped out and we're setting the agenda. everybody's reacting to us now and i feel good about that because that's what i came to do. what exactly do you believe rudy giuliani's goals are? because i spoke to people inside the white house over the weekend would said sarah huckabee sanders and the communications staff are embarrassed and devasta devastated. >> what giuliani is doing is very much acting as a rogue
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agent in coordination with the president. the two of them are discussing these talking points, discussing this strategy of being out in the media all day, every day, for a week on end, but they're not coordinating at all with the white house staff. you know, people in charge of communications, at the white house have literally no idea what rudy giuliani is going to say at any given moment. he keeps changing his story. he keeps introducing new information like yesterday when he suggested that there could possibly be additional hush money payments to addictitional women and described it as sort of normal in this sort of a circumstance, and it's troubling inside the white house because they have really serious issues they're trying to talk about. they're trying to deal with north korea. they have a big decision coming up that the president's going to have to make on the iran deal. they have an embattled cia nominee who is going to have to face a confirmation hearing this week. this is really a distraction from the president's governing agenda although clearly he has
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another agenda too which is dealing with what he calls the witch hunt. >> it might not be working for the communications staff in the white house but giuliani seems to think it's working. i want to play more of what he said on abc and see if you can follow. >> you said cohen met with trump and told him and giuliani said we'll cover your expenses. they worked out this the $35,000 a month retainer after that. so the president did know about this after the campaign. >> can't say that. i mean, at some point yes but it could have been recently, it could have been a while back. those are the facts we're still working on. and that yn maybe , you know, m little bit of dispute. this is more rumor than anything else. >> you said that to buzz feed. >> yes, that's one of the possibilities, and one of the rumors -- >> you stated it as fact. >> well, maybe i did, but right now i'm at the point where i'm learning and i can only -- i can't prove that, i can just say it it's rumor. i can prove it's rumor but i
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can't prove it's fact. >> rudy said he's focused on the law and conclusions but not facts. i'm confused by that. but is it working for him? >> i'm confused by it too. the president even said, which was a stunning admission on friday, that he'll get his facts straight later on. so you have the lawyer for the president out there giving interview after interview after interview, showing no signs of stopping his plan to talk to the press. if his aim is to, one, fight this mueller investigation head on and close some of the questions surrounding this payment, every time he does an interview, he opens up more potential legal liability for the president. and more political problems of course. remember, he introduced the stormy daniels bit of this in that first interview with fox on sean hannity, saying that this wasn't a campaign violation. in subsequent interviews, he's kind of muddied the water on
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this. if this is a goal, it's difficult to see what steps they're getting out of this, moving this forward, when there just are more questions after this. >> is it working because the media is obviously following every word he says and every lie that you seem to find them in. yet the average american out there are confused by all of this. is there a chance that rudy is successful that your average voter who just wants their life to be better is saying this is so confusing, call me when somebody gets indicted -- >> well -- >> yes, we know there's been quite a few -- >> i think what rudy is try do is to protect trump from the bigger story. the story really isn't stormy daniels and whether or not somebody has committed campaign -- >> finance violation. >> right. that's not the deal. the deal is this investigation started with mueller and collusion with russia. we can probably take a big guess that this thing is going in a whole different direction and focusing probably on trump's
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business practices before he even took office, all right. so looking at a lot of the characters and i'm calling them characters that are around trump, you've got roger stone, character one. you've got manafort, character two. you've got a lot of people that are already getting in trouble for their business and their lying and their stuff, but then there's trump right here. he's protected by, you know, because he's president. so there's certain protections in place. i think what rudy giuliani is doing is coming out and saying, okay, here's what this is, here's what this is. this is campaign election law. trying to shut down the main argument. where everybody's, you know, concerned about stormy daniels. there's a much bigger deal here at play. >> okay, then -- >> much bigger deal. they don't want, you know, trump's going out there saying i'm fine to go with mueller, i'm good to go with mueller, i'll question all day long. trump's like, oh, hell no. giuliani's like, hell no.
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you don't need to go before mueller. they're going to start asking you questions on your business dealings and you don't want to go there. so i think that you've got conflicting information. trump is out there with his base. like, yeah, i'm not fearing mueller. rudy going, you need to fear mueller. we're going to go out here and talk stormy daniels, campaign violation law, and that's why it's loosey-goosey. >> and emmitt flood working behind the scenes, i'm guessing around the clock. in "usa today," giuliani may have made mueller's obstruction case in relation to stormy daniels, not jim comey. quote, if the president was involved in sending ought a false public account by both his private counsel and white house staff, it could be treated as a potential criminal matter. likewise, any evidence that cohen was warned or in any way protected by government officials before the raids could prove incriminating. it's pretty clear now that the president lied or had his staff lie again. is this the cover-up that could be big everything than the real
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problem or to noelle's point, we're getting confused with finance issues when mueller's working on much bigger stuff. >> that's right, it's a problem. look, it's not the first time the president's lied. "the washington post" fact-checker has counted more than 3,000 instances of lying or false statements since he took office. but this in particular instance is a problem. because it points to some sort of motive to cover up what had happened, to cover u that payment. we're starting to hear more of the truth now. i think what rudy's trying to do is create noise that muddies the water, that helps, you know, galvanize these trump supporters to oppose the mueller investigation that makes people look at it in a different direction when we know mueller is digging in on issues like obstruction of justice which is a very real threat to the president, given all of his actions in office to try to thwart this russia investigation.
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>> katelyn, you wrote this all could help republicans in the midterms. why? >> well, it's interesting. we have two big primaries tomorrow in west virginia and indiana. all the candidates in those republican primaries are using the similar language that trump uses to describe this whole mueller probe. calling it a witch hunt. telling voters look, this has become bigger than its original mandate. this is becoming -- voters are feeling on the republican side at least, this is an attack on them and what they voted for, and they see this the way the president sees this. and you see in polling that attitudes towards mueller among republicans have become increasingly negative and we've seen some of that among independents a little bit too and a tiny dip but a dip nonetheless in the broader public's view of this investigation, so strategists i've been talking to say look, this does have the potential the longer it drags out for people to say, look, i want to focus on the economy myself, i want to focus on my bottom line and what i'm doing every day and it's
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just becoming something bigger than we can understand or that's relatable to our lives. that is just something to watch for at this point. we don't know how it will play in november. >> noelle, it's become bigger potentially because there's a lot of dirty business. why is this hurting bob mueller and not the president? >> well, because it's forcing, you know, much to your point, it's actually forcing a lot of republicans to take up for the president and be on his team, be soldiers in this army. >> why does it force them? >> it also force also the democrat to adopt the narrative of, you know, impeachment, impeachment, impeachment. that's become a lot of their narrative. the republicans, when you look at what the republican party keeps putting out, it's the economy, the economy, the economy. so you've got the republicans talking about the economy, look at this, look at that, how wonderful, these tax cuts are working. and you've got the democrats focusing on this old narrative of impeach trump.
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much like the republicans focused on a narrative of, you know, obama's a horrible person and a bad president. so we just switched narratives in this election. >> we're going to talk more about the midterms. to republicans out there who are talking about how these corporate tax cuts are helping the average american, i invite you to come join me on television monday to friday, 9:00 a.m., right here on msnbc. coming up, the president weighed in this morning on a controversial senate in west virginia. why president trump is turning his back on a republican with a reminder about roy moore. and i'm going to remind the president, you backed roy moore. first, "saturday night live" brings in the big stars to help tackle the trump campaign and administration. >> hello? >> yes, this is ivanka and jared. >> hi, hi, hello.
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>> michael, did we hear giuliani call jared disposable on national television because jared is furious. >> yeah, man, like what the hell, i'm so mad right now.
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we see two travelers so at a comfort innal with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, "wow, maybe i'll glow too if i book direct at choicehotels.com". who glows? just say, badda book. badda boom. book now at choicehotels.com mr. elliot, what's your wiwifi?ssword? wifi's ordinary. basic. do i look basic? nope! which is why i have xfinity xfi.
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it's super fast and you can control every device in the house. [ child offscreen ] hey! let's basement. and thanks to these xfi pods, the signal reaches down here, too. so sophie, i have an xfi password, and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. welcome back. i'm stephanie ruhle.
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hawaii on high alert this morning. lava from the big island's kilauea volcano flooding the streets. at least 26 homes have been completely destroyed. authorities say safe areas can change at a moment's notice and residents should be aware of toxic gas and potential earthquakes. steve patterson joins me now from hilo, hawaii. glad to know you're in a safe place. what is the latest? >> well, you mentioned it, safe areas changing at a moment's notice. there was a very pointed message that went out in alert at about 7:00 last night aimed at people within that risk zone it said go now. that was proceeded by more of this intense volcanic activity including the discovery of ten more vol cannvolcanic active f h
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fissure. it can spark a fountain of lava the size of a building. there was one recorded upwards of 300 feet. there are ten of those within the residential neighborhood within the risk zone. the evacuation of nearly 2,000 people. people had to leave their belongings very quickly and get out. also accompanied by hundreds of earthquakes including a massive magnitude 6.9 that struck on friday, rattled the entire island chain. the thing that officials are most worried about probably is that sulfur dioxide that also creep also out of those fissures, exposing people to toxic gases. it can be very bad if you have respiratory issues. officials now keeping a clamp on that area, trying to keep people away, because it's a very dangerous situation in this state of emergency. >> toxic gases, they seem very dangerous for anyone. steve, stay safe, thank you for that update. we're going to leave it there. coming up, president trump
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getting involved in a big republican primary race this morning. why he's telling voters in west virginia to stay away from one of the front-runners. first, so far this year, our nation has seen 19,907 incidents of gun violence acording to the trace.org and 45 shootings just since yesterday.
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time for your morning primer, everything you need to know to get your day started. we gipp with vladimir putin, taking the oath of office for his fourth term as russia's president this morning. thousands of guests attended the lavish inaugural ceremony in moscow. melania trump will announce her long awaited platform this afternoon. the first lady is expected to focus on children's well being. >> the connecticut supreme court has overturned the murder conviction of kennedy cousin michael skakel and ordered a new trial in the 1975 killing of his childhood neighbor martha moxley. the court says skakel's trial lawyer did not give him an adequate defense. the mother of one of the victims killed in the waffle
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house shooting in nashville last month accepted her daughter's diploma this weekend at belmont university. 21-year-old deebony grove's mother received a standing ovation as she walked away the stage to accept her daughter's degree in of all things social work. seniors at marjorie douglas high school celebrated their prom while honoring their classmates who were killed in the parkland school shooting earlier this year. now let's take you down to the new york stock exchange to the opening bell where markets opened just a minute ago and they're up just a bit. cnbc's dom chu joins me now. what's driving the markets this morning? >> we've got optimism about what's happening with tech stocks. that on the heels of a big day for apple on friday. apple is very important. it's the biggest company in america. the biggest publicly traded company in the world. it has a lot of weight in the stock market. it also got a ringing endorsement from billionaire investor warren buffett who said
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his firm bought more shares in the company. that means they own around 240 million shares of apple, just around 5% or so. you take that and you couple it with some of the strength and energy right now. oil prices are higher because of some concerns about whether or not the iranian nuclear deal will stay intact. whenever there's tension in the middle east, oil prices start to rise. those oil prices are pushing oil company stocks higher as well. a lot of different things working. it will stay green for at least the morning. >> all right, let's talk about warren buffett for a moment. it was a big buffet weekend. he was on cnbc earlier this morning. warren buffett has said he's not particularly worried about a big old-fashioned trade war. >> no, and that's something he reiterated. it's important to note this. warren buffett obviously is a very big investment mind. probably one of the most iconic investment names in u.s. history for sure. he talked a little bit about the trade war. he does say he does not think he's going to have a trade war.
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also it's not in the charge of either china or the united states to be engaged in a trade war. they have a very common thread. something to watch there. he does also mention the idea of trade deficits. he says he has a close eye on them right now. he doesn't like the idea we can perhaps import all of this stuff and not give anything back in return except for debt in our treasury market. those are things that concern him. he also said on balance with everything the way that it is, the stock market is still a great place to invest. he had these words for all of those investors out there who are wondering if you can time the market. he says you can't. take a listen to what he had to say. >> almost always equity's have been a better buy. if you're going to put away money over time when you're younger, if you buy stocks, overall, period of time, you're not going to get the lies but you're not just going to by at
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the highs. if you get a cross section, well, like i say, it will turn $10,000 into $50 million and you never have to look at a financial page again. >> i think, stephanie, that might be the american dream, take $10,000, have the money work hard for you, turn it into $51 million. buffe buffett's calculation was if he had invested $10,000 when he first started buying stock in 1942, that $10,000 theoretically invested in something like the s&p 500 would be worth $51 million. >> well, there's nobody better at telling a story and public relations than the one and only warren buffett, thank you. we mentioned it earlier. we're only 24 hours before the republican senate primary in the state of west virginia. president trump coming out swinging against candidate don blankenship. trump tweeted, quote, to the great people of west virginia. we have together a really great chance to keep making a big difference. problem is, don blankenship currently running for senate
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cannot win the general election in your state, no way, and blankenship, no surprise, is fighting back. the campaign says, quote, president trump doesn't know how flawed my two main opponents are. i will win the primary and i will beat joe manchin tomorrow. west virginia will send the swamp a message. no one, and i mean no one, will tell us how to vote, and some have said i am trumpier than trump. this morning proves it. mr. blankenship what in god's name does trumpier than trump mean? my panel's back with me. noelle, katelyn. blankenship went to jail. he went to jail associated with conspiring to violate federal mine safety standards. that act led to the biggest disaster we've seen in over 40 years in the mining space. a disaster for 29 people killed. isn't that stunning somebody who went to prison can even run for office? i want to share what gop senator
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jeff flake tweeted. the problem isn't that don blankenship can't win a general election in west virginia. it's that he shouldn't win a general election in west virginia. country over party. that is sort of what we would hope the president would say. >> i'm so glad that president trump came out and said boo on blankenship -- >> but he's not saying -- >> yes, he is -- >> he's saying we can't win -- >> -- because look what happened in alabama. we were talking about this before. trump endorsed reluctantly roy moore, the pistol shooting weirdo -- >> okay, but whether or not it was reluctant -- whether or not he endorsed ray moore, he endorsed him. >> but we all, everybody had to look at roy moore compared to the democrat and say we didn't want the democrat to get the seat. nobody liked roy moore. >> you would rather roy moore -- >> i, noelle kimpour, i did not endorse. but the republican party
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reluctantly had to say he's our nominee, here he is. he's going to stay in and vote for our platform. but they didn't like him. you've got to realize a lot of people when they were looking at trump, voting on trump, they didn't really like some of the things trump was accused of but they went ahead and voted for trump. >> wouldn't you think roy moore is a bridge too far? >> roy moore's crazy. he's weird. he's gross. he's despicable. this guy blankenship shouldn't even be running for office. i applaud trump for going out ahead of it, saying we don't need another candidate like this. this is a bad guy. donald trump sjr. also had a tweet saying we don't need another alabama. we don't need blankenship. >> do you not see the difference? because those are two different thin things. >> but they're still saying we don't need blankenship. why there's two different things that's the same result, no blankenship. >> we'll see if blankenship does win this tomorrow.
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there isn't a lot of public polling on this so we really don't know who's going to rin tomorrow so i think the president getting involved in this kind of shows that republicans are nervous about having someone like this and having an alabama situation all over again. so we'll see what the president does in that case. west virginia's really important here. we talk a lot about how republicans are facing head winds of course on the house side. >> but this is your blue wave. we keep getting candidates like this. >> on the senate side -- >> that's a lousy blue wave. the choice is a guy who went to prison or a potential pedophile. >> exactly. republicans don't want to be in this situation again obviously. west virginia is an easy state for them to win on paper, right. i mean, it's the place where donald trump is most popular. the place he won i think by the most. and he goes there frequently and has been going after manchin. >> blankenship, a silver tray, like here, joe manchin, here you
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go. that's a no brainer. >> and they've been trying to gain seats where democrats are holding on. if they blow this tomorrow, that just shows kind of where the party -- >> obviously the west virginia republican party has no control over, you know, letting this guy -- that's one of the things, stephanie. they actually could come out and say we don't endorse this guy. he's adopting our platform. we don't like blankenship. so bye-bye. we're distancing ourselves. >> that's what i wonder what the president will do, if he does do the roy moore thing. that's the question. >> i say no. he's already come out way ahead of this. jeff flake, a lot of other people, have come out and said we don't want you. you may want us, we don't want you. >> well, we'll soon find out. we'll have a lot of coverage on that. coming up, the king of debt buys big with cash. a new report examined how donald trump spent more than 400 million bucks in property in the nine years before he ran for
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president without taking a single loan. it's a big shift in 40 years of his business practices. people would stare. psoriasis does that. it was tough getting out there on stage. i wanted to be clear. i wanted it to last. so i kept on fighting. i found something that worked. and keeps on working. now? they see me. see me. see if cosentyx could make a difference for you- cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...find clear skin that can last. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. if you have inflammatory bowel disease, tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. never give up. see me. see me. clear skin can last. don't hold back... ...ask your dermatologist
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it's just a burst pipe, i could fix (laugh) no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up just beacuase of a claim. i totally could've... (wife) nope! switching to allstate is worth it. i'm the king of debt. i'm great with debt. nobody knows debt better than me. if things don't work out, i renegotiate the debt. that's a smart thing. i like debt for my company. but i don't like debt for the country. >> he does renegotiate debt. that's why so many banks didn't
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want to do business with him any more. time now for my favorite part of the show, money, power, politics. that of course was then candidate trump, the self-proclaimed king of debt in 2016. however, "the washington post" report is shedding light on a spending spree by the trump empire. the organization shelled out more than 400 million bucks in cash. purchasing new properties in the nine years before trump ran for president. but the question on everyone's mind, where exactly did the cash come from. he co-wrote this report and joins me live. david, lay all this out for us. because eric trump has said from the firm's existing businesses, commercial real estate, new properties, they had a lot of cash and they decided to spend. one could make the argument they made a lot of money off the brand of the apprentice and trump loved to talk about the value of that brand. he put a big number on that. when he showed that to banks, banks laughed at him. is it time that he had to spend his own money? >> well, that's a good question.
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the response from the trump organization, from eric trump is, look, we had plenty of banks that wanted to loan to us. we had so much money we decided to just spend the money ourselves and buy these properties. mostly golf courses. in all cash. so we didn't have any partners. the money would have been all ours. the strange thing is that nobody does that. and not just because people don't have the money to do it, because it doesn't make business sense to do that. if you're going to buy properties to make money it makes more sense to take a little loan, get some co-investors, spread out the risk but also spread out your money so you can invest in more properties. just sinking your own money into properties, in the cases we can see lose a lot of money, it's not really anybody's idea of great investing. it certainly wasn't donald trump's idea of great investing for most of his career. >> it's a lie for eric trump to say plenty of banks wanted to lend them money. that's not the case. deutsche banc, where i worked, previously from the institutional side of the bank had lent the trump organization money, and trump came back to
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them wanting to borrow more money. again, placing a value of something like $1 billion on the trump brand name, and they laughed at it. help was forced to go to the private bank side. how could eric trump possibly say this was a business decision, everyone wanted to lend them money? there's no evidence of that. >> one of the things i don't have is great visibility into what was going on inside the trump organization. how much cash they had on hand, how much cash there business was throwing off. it seems unlikely from the outside they had so much money they could afford to just sink it into these properties that lose money. talking to people who know the golf business well, when you ask them who buys properties in cash, usually it's two kinds of people. neither one of which is donald trump. people who buy golf courses as a vanity project. just so i can be the big man on campus. or places like sovereign wealth funds, the dubai sovereign wealth funds. they just park their money in
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some place and come back later. trump is neither one of those things. he's somebody who's trying to buy golf courses presumably to make money. people who do it that way usually take on loans and partners. >> we need to put in perspective the norwegian solve revereign w fund is one of the cash richest on the planet. do you have any idea where the cash came from? it reminds me of when they bought the hotel in washington, d.c. remember, they were the highest bidder by so much that the second highest bidder wanted to take legal action saying we know that in a year they're going to try to renegotiate the lease because it doesn't make sense. where on earth do they get the cash from? >> at this point, i don't know more than what eric trump told us. which is money coming off other businesses they're trying to spend. i'm trying to learn more about that. you mentioned the trump, old post office, the hotel development here in d.c., that's what's unusual about this. eric trump told us, look, during this period we were buying things in cash because we wanted
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to be conservative, turn ourselves into kind of a steady annuity, you know, steady business. but in the same time, they took on two humongous loans from deutsche banc to buy really risky properties. one was the golf course outside miami. the other was the property in d.c. where as you said they bid so much more than anybody else that people at the time thought how in the world can they make money if they're going to pay so much for this property. in those two cases they did take on loans which seems kind of variance with the all cash philosophy eric laid out. >> deutsche banc where it came from the private client side. in 2017, eric trump told a golf journalist we don't rely on american banks, we've all the funding we need out of russia. he then said that story is completely fabricated. but it's stunning if you think about it. and we're relying on eric trump's explanation of this all. awesome reporting. this one's a head scratcher. >> thank you. all right, coming up,
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addicted to trump. we'll talk to nick christoph of "the new york times" about the new piece about the country's obsession with the president and the need to sometimes just take a break. dear foremothers, your society was led by a woman, who governed thousands... commanded armies... yielded to no one. when i found you in my dna, i learned where my strength comes from. my name is courtney mckinney, and this is my ancestrydna story. now with 5 times more detail than other dna tests. order your kit at ancestrydna.com
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please turn up the volume, i really want to talk about this. he's the president of the united states and leader of free world. everything donald trump says and does should be news worthy. but if it doesn't feel this way to you, so many people in the current news cycle they feel like this is a daily reality show and they're sick of it. it leaves little room for other stories that affect the lives of everyday americans. new op-ed in "the new york times" reads in smirked it it's all trump all the time. we're collective leigh dicted to him. trump is so important but there's so much else happening as well. so 65,000 americans will die this year of drug overdoses. american life expectancy has fallen for two years in a row. guns claim a life every 15 minutes. those are issues that are more important than to question whether or not president trump slept with stormy daniels. i want to bring in the author of this piece.
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nick, you write that the media should focus on what trump does instead of what trump says. i agree with you but here's the issue. he's the president of the united states. everything he says matters. >> absolutely. and it's never been a time when it's been more important for the media to hold a president accountable. and so absolutely i'm not arguing that we should avert our eyes, that we should provide less accountability coverage. but there's also i think some real danger that we allow trump to set agenda and that we, you know, i think we did this in the campaign frankly in 2016 to our detriment and to the country's detriment that we were like yapping dogs following the latest thing he said or the latest shiny object. there's so much more happening. we have to figure out a way -- how to cover president trump but also create some bandwidth for general side in myanmar for
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those opioid overdoses. i'm afraid that we have at this point, trump is our business model in the media. >> what should we do in the "new york times" writes pieces on this every day. "the new york times" knows what readers have an appetite for reading. >> and i must say that if i were expectative producer of a show, i would be trump all the time because you can see that when one discover the rohingya for example, that people will switch the channel. but i do think that sho o many us went into the media because we wanted to make a difference and we do think that we play an important role in informing society about important issues. and i think we blew it in 2016, i think we've done much better since then in providing real accountability over trump. but i think we haven't done as well in providing that same accountability of other places
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where our society and where the international candidate falls short. >> i wrestle with this every day and i'm not saying i know the answer ever. do you think social media is part of the problem? i think to my show every day as it's planned and then somewhere between 8:00 apple a-- a.m. and 9:00 a.m. the show gets set on fire. >> trump is the ultimate, how you can go by without rubberneck something so i think we have to distinguish between what is truly important for the country versus what just is a car wreck. and so even to the extent we're going to have this obsession, let's at least have an obsession not just with his words but with his actions. so i mean if you look at epa, scott pruitt, there are these incredible scandals that are juicy and wonderful. but the biggest scandal in the
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epa is the kind of deregulation that they're doing allowing chemicals to taint american kids. >> one of the issues, though, deregulation, i agree with you wholeheartedly. >> i realize i'm being incredibly boring. >> one of the issues where they were talking about the cfpb or deregular thation ilation that's happening in the epa, none of these things have gone through yet and they take a very, very long time. isn't it difficult to know how to measure these two things in the president, all he wants is to be on every tv network all day every day, and he's winning that. >> he is. but, you know, i think that we in the media really should be more willing to look in the mirror and learn lessons. as i said, in 2016 we too often, and i think it's rude to say so, but cable television in particular i think has sfrufrd this addiction. we kept the camera on him because he answered the crisis in our business model.
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as long as cameras were on him and that car wreck, then viewers followed. and that was great for audiences. it wasn't great for our profession. it wasn't great for the country. and i -- i do think we have to push all of us people on air, writers, executive producers, to also bring in more of these other issues around the country. >> i'm with you. in your piece you jokingly asked trump to go after you like he has maggie haberman, my colleague charles todd, why? >> i just feel left out. what am i going to tell my kids that here he is denouncing all these other people and, you know. >> makes you feel like chopped liver. >> yeah. it's like being left off the list back in the mnixon years. >> this is an amazing piece. if you haven't read it please do and every newsroom needs think about it, talk about it and fik
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out what we're going to do. no matter what, you know i never end this show talking trump tweets. i always end with good news because there's always good news somewhere and good news rules. this story especially. boston marathon changed its mind about paying some of the women who finished in the top 15. one of them a nurse practitioner finished in fifth place, that finish would typically pay 15 grand. but because she did not take off with the elite category of female runners, instead started with the rest of the crowd, they doesn't qualify. the marathon decided she and two others like her should get the awards as an elite runner typically would receive. that's awesome and i thank our friend evan speagle who brought that story to us. he said, listen, we got to help this woman. excuse me not evan speagle from snapchat. ef ven siegfried told us about this woman. i'm so glad she got the 15 grand. that's a good story.
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i'm stephanie ruhle, i'll see you at 11:00. coming up more news with my friend hallie jackson. hallie, do you not love that story? >> i love all of your stories. >> thank you, stephanie. right now, this hour we are diving into what will be a defining work for president trump's emerging national security team because right now the would be keeper of the nation's secrets is apparently worried about what's in her own as it relates to her past in the cia. haskell has floated giving up herred by to lead that agency just a couple of days before confirmation hears. three sources telling us they rushed to langley to convince her to stay on. we'll have marc short, the white house director of legislative affairs onset. what did he say and how worried is the white house about haskell's nomination? speaking of worry in the white house, rudy giuliani is still trying to get his story straight this morning. talking with nbc news in a new interview saying the president might bl

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