tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 15, 2018 3:00am-6:00am PDT
foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarray" richard haas. columnist and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius and nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d.c. on msnbc, what's the deal? why are we skipping it in. >> because of this. richard we're going to get to the news, but one of, one of the more concerning days in the middle east, in some time you could look at the chaos as "the wall street journal" says, that spread across gaza, and across the region yesterday. you could also look at what happened in iraq and america's sworn enemy throughout most of the iraq war. actually his, his, his group of politicians doing better than anybody else, does show you what a waste, an absolute waste of
time, money, resources, life the united states engaged in over the past decade. trying to make iraq into a jeffersonian democracy, they're not any thomas jeffersons over there. there are not even any al capones over there, if you look at the results from yesterday. >> i don't think the book stores of arabic translations of the "federalist papers." it raises fundamental questions which is what you're getting at, about the idea of being ambitious. about the idea of changing the dna of countries. the wisdom or lack of it of having gotten ambitious in iraq. and then the situation between israelis and palestinians. beyond questions of tactically,
what's happened at the border. it shows how neither side, neither the palestinians or israel has any strategy for dealing with their situation. what we have is essentially violence and the absence of a strategy for either side. >> david ignatius. we've been saying for some time, we've been noting for some time that their there are unique opportunities in the middle east. because the sunni arab nations have drone closer to israel and their alliance against a growing iranian threat across that region. but at this point when you have the images that we had yesterday, the split screen out of israel that we had yesterday, at some point it doesn't matter what cc in egypt thinks about the palestinians or what mbs in saudi arabia thinks, whether he's tired of the palestinian cause or not. this actually causes unrest
across the region, does it not? and actually makes it more difficult for us to move forward. with our sunni allies. these images, the contrast world shock people in the middle east. should be a shocking contrast for people all over the world. that degree of violence, 58 dead, 2700 injured. is extraordinary. i have to say that gulf arabs, the saudis, the emiratis, still have a nominal commitment to the palestinian cause. they say all the right things. certainly their people get upset. there is a way in which they're more focused. it's a fact. they're more focused on iran, think that's one reason israel feels more comfortable dealing with this in the way that it thinks it needs to. so there is a way in which the palestinian issue gets less focused than it did at any time
since i've been covering the middle east. and that goes back to 1980. this was a day when you just saw the blockage that really echo of richard haas was saying. the obstacles in the way of moving forward in the middle east. moving forward for israel to the kind of stale israelis want and want to celebrate moving forward. in iraq, toward something more stable. it's still a long way to go. >> and mika, for the rest of the world you actually saw an administration, a white house, and we'll say it since ivanka trump was there. a family. completely out of touch. with the realities of the region that they're dealing with. and you know, you had 55, 55 people killed yesterday? >> 58. >> 58. >> and you had a split screen of what looked like a vip camp at
the belmont stakes. and they just -- >> they don't care. >> they seem totally oblivious to what was going on, not -- not so far away. >> so the international committee of the red cross warned that the health system in gaza is quote on the verge of collapse due to strain. several nations have called for an emergency meeting of the u.n. security council with the palestinian rep calling the israeli actions in gaza, quote, war crimes. nato ally turkey has declared three days of mourning in solidarity with the protest and has announced it's withdrawing its ambassadors to israel and the united states for turkey's president erdogan also says there will be a big demonstration in istanbul on friday. >> if turkey wants to withdraw from nato at the same time that's fine. >> yeah. >> the israeli military said it acted after nearly 40,000 people
descended on the border with fire bombs and explosive devices and rocks as part of riots in an attempt to reach the border fence. some attempted to set a bomb at one section of that fence. others sent flaming kites into israel. presidential adviser jared kushner mentioned the protest in his comments at the embassy opening yesterday. >> by moving our embassy to jerusalem we have shown the world once again that the united states can be trusted. we stand with our friends and our allies, and above all else, we've shown that the united states of america will do what's right. president trump was very clear that his decision and today's celebration do not reflect a departure from our strong commitment to lasting peace. a peace that overcomes the conflicts of the past in order to give our children a brighter and more boundless future. as we have seen from the protests of the last month and even today, those provoking violence are part of the problem
and not part of the solution. >> we're aware of the reports of continued violence in gaza today. the responsibility for these tragic defendants rests carely with hams, who is provoking this response, and as the secretary of state said israel has the right to defend itself. >> to be clear, does the u.s. not degree with the french that israeli authorities should exercise discretion and restraint? >> we believe that hamas is responsible. we believe that hamas as an organization is engaged in cynical action leading to these deaths. >> the white house's official transcript of kushner's remarks did not include the part where he blames the protesters for the violence. richard haas, as you watch these scenes play out yesterday on television, the world watches them play out, you know, palestinians said from the moment the idea was floated, of moving the embassy to jerusalem this would take any peace deal
off the table. that the americans were not good-faith partners in that act. as you watch yesterday, can you imagine peace talks that jared kushner was supposed to have initiated and supposed to have been overseeing for the last 16 months? >> the short answer is new york city long answer is no. what today showed is not do the israelis have a good tactical policy for dealing with the pressure at the border, but they don't have a strategic policy how to create a con tet text that the palestinians have any sense that the future is going to be better. for that matter, neither do the palestinians. the u.s. has taken itself largely out of the game. the idea that we could be an honest broker and play a role acceptable to both sides is increasingly suspect. so yesterday was about as, just when you think things can't get worse in the middle east. what yesterday shows, no, actually they can. and what you have here in gaza, think about it. this is a place that's got the most dense population in the
world. somewhere between 1.5 million and 2 million people in a place maybe what, twice the size of washington, d.c. two-thirds of the people are under 25 years old. so this is more than just hamas orchestrating it. yeah, hamas is pushing things, hamas is also running behind to catch up. so it doesn't lose any sense of leadership there. this is a situation that where people are hopeless, they're going to do dangerous and suicidal things. the long-term strategic question for the united states and israel is how do we change this dynamic? you don't want to have images like this you don't want to have this reality day after day. so the question is again, what do we do to change this dynamic? i heard nothing yesterday that suggested that we have even the slightest clue about how to change this dynamic. >> timing is everything. i supported, when i was in congress, i supported moving the embassy to jerusalem. at some point. just about every president that's run has also supported
moving the embassy to jerusalem. over the past, certainly republican presidents have supported that over the past 20, 30 years. >> clinton did, too. >> bill clinton did as well. but if you look at the special time, this is for anybody that really knows how to negotiate. this is jonathan this is one of the worst times in the world. to do this. because we have our enemies on their, on their back heels. whoever they are across the middle east. you have, you have again, the arab states, the sunni arab states. actually on our side. willing to work with us, we could, if we could present ourselves as honest brokers to the middle east. in the middle east, we could, we could actually sit down with the palestinians and say hey, listen you know you're in worse shape than you've been in, in 40
years. >> let's strike an honorable deal for you. >> we can, you know, obviously netanyahu is not an honest broker over there, never has been, never will be. to take a situation like this where actually again, the united states and our sunni allies are aligned and do something to provoke this sort of backlash without laying the proper steps, it just short sighted and it is going to cause a situation there to get even worse. >> the white house is being reactionary this is about president trump campaign promise, he says i'm going to the president that moves the embassy to jerusalem what an appeal it holds for him, when he can do something that his predecessors could or did not
do. we're seeing him showcase his close ties with prime minister netanyahu. that's one of his closest allies. he wants to deliver this for the republican base. conservatives, whether it's sheldon adelsoadelson. jared kushner, we haven't seen much of jared recently. to have him so front and center yesterday out there with that very dramatic split screen of the country club atmosphere of the embassy dedication ceremony with the violence only 60 miles away. within the white house how middle east peace has become far less of a priority, we know in our reporting that the president when he first came to office, he saw a deal there. as his chance to rewrite the history books. suggesting even in one oval office conversation that he could do it in his first term. his focus has shifted. north korea is where he is now. nsa where he sees the chance to
do something that he'll be remembered forever. this is not where his focus is right now. instead his focus is delivering a campaign promise to his base, and shoring up ties with netanyahu. >> negotiations and diplomacy, i tried in the middle east and failed with everybody else, just because you have the right to do something, just because the united states had a right to move its embassy in jerusalem. doesn't mean it was the right thing to do or that this was the right time to do it. you've got to make the situation better. at the moment we did this in the absence of a larger diplomacy. we didn't give anything to the palestinians in exchange. we could have done this. it could have been done without this violence if we had packaged it right. if it had been part of something larger. to do it in isolation, to do it in the absence of a larger process. this is the result of doing things like that. >> the most amazing things, we didn't netanyahu for anything for this, we never do. and to move, to, to move this
embassy to jerusalem, and get nothing in return from israel. >> it's the art of the deal. >> this moves the peace process down the road. it's the worst deal making i could imagine. >> or to try to give some kind of olive branch to the palestinians, something that says yes, we're moving this, but here's what you get out of it as well. and mika, part of a larger package. kasie hunt, what's the reaction been like on capitol hill over the last 24 hours. we heard the white house line in support of israel's actions along the border. what are they saying on capitol hill? >> the question of whether to move the embassy at all. it actually does break down along somewhat unexpected lines. normally it's easy to tell hey, so and so, especially if they have a democratic title, is going to be opposed to whatever president trump may have done. but in this particular case, you have people like senator chuck schumer, the democratic leader.
praising the administration's actions here. so it's important to remember that sometimes this issue breaks down along difficult lines. but i think you know, congress is going to be back and in force today, i think you're already starting to hear, these concerns about exactly what you were just laying out. the reaction to this the way that the administration did this, that resulted in such a dramatic loss of life, the, the israeli actions and whether they are in proportion to what was required here. i'm actually interested, richard haas, we've talked a lot recently this is, this comes as the u.s. has pulled out of the iran deal, somewhat at the urging of bibi netanyahu. there was quiet support from arab nations there. what role are they playing in the israeli/palestinian conflicts. they had been happy in past decades to stoke them it gave them more entrenched power in
their own countries are, they criticizing israel right now? >> they're only criticizing israel to the extent they have to. the populations of the many sunni arab countries, their governments would like this to go away in the case eve egypt to focus on domestic challenge and in the case of saudi arabia and others, so they can focus on iran. what we'll find out is the governments won't have the total freedom to do this. this issue resonates with populations. and when the tv images of this are beamed around the arab world, it will show this issue has a lot of traction with the public and it will rein in what governments can and cannot do. >> you mentioned this at the top of the show, muqtada al sadr, militia leader who once led a charge against american troops in iraq as emerged as the front-runner in iraq's national elections according to iraqi officials. muqtada al sadr has been extremely vocal in his
anti-american stance, but said he would honor commitments made between iraq and the united states regarding the training of iraq security forces and weapons purchases. >> david i ignatius, al sadr, a sworn enemy of the united states during the iraq war. what does his success in yesterday's elections mean? >> muqtada al sadr is a nationalist. he is anti-american, he's also relatively speaking for an iraqi shiite, anti-iranian. i think most important in terms of understanding what just happened, he's anti-corruption, he thinks that the people on top of the new iraq are stealing money everywhere and he's right. and i think this election result reflects public anger at the new kind of autocrats of iraq and what they've been getting away with. i would caution although he came
out on top. it's possible he'll cut a deal that would keep prime minister abadi, the american-supported current prime minister of iraq, in power. that looks to some analysts like the most likely outcome. but it's a sign that i think in some ways, has some positive elements, iraq is saying we're angry, we want this country of ours to work better. we want people to stop stealing and he's the guy that's the symbol of that. president trump slams the media and members of his own government in the same tweet. how the president plans to target leakers for spilling secrets to the press. plus the vice president is pushing his boss's agenda. new reports suggest mike pence is getting under the president's skin for being a little too front and center. kind of like we've had that problem for some time. >> bill karins? got a feeling he's running for something. >> i think we have to have the talk.
>> you look and he's going oh, i'm out for "morning joe." >> sit in the background, blend in a little bit. >> how many times can you go to the mall in schenectady and claim you're doing it for me. you're doing it for yourself, karins. >> bill? >> i grew up in that mall. we're watching the storms in the middle of the country. today is going to be a violent day in the northeast. airport plangs, major delays, we could have a few tornados in the northeast this afternoon into this evening. right now there's storms through missouri and heading towards just south of detroit. here's the map for today, the headline, 47 million people at risk for severe storms, including much of connecticut, massachusetts, the lower hudson valley. the poconos down to baltimore, washington, d.c., philadelphia included. if we get tornadoes today, they would be between 4:00 and 7:00 p.m. most likely in this orange area from scranton to hartford, north of new york city. usually you don't get the big tornados in this area of the country. on top of all this mess, we have
the storm in florida providing a lot of rainfall to the south. that's going to creep up the east coast and the days ahead. these two systems are going to combine for a heavy rain threat we have flood watches from washington, d.c. northward, including baltimore and philadelphia areas. you could see up to about two to three inches of rain in the next two days. and then it's going to rain all the way out until thursday, friday, maybe even saturday. so a very soggy and dangerous situation in the east. with a lot of travel issues over the next couple of days. we'll track it for you on msnbc, you're watching "morning joe." once there was an organism so small no one thought much of it at all. people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't that be cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's
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zte, the large chinese phone company buy as big percentage of individual parts from u.s. companies. this is also reflective of the larger trade deal we are gesh yating with china. and my personal relationship with president xi. on sunday, the president pledged to work with the chi he's president to help zte, saying too many jobs in china had been lost. zte shut its main operations after the commerce department banned the u.s. to selling components to the government. it was accused of -- >> too much information. >> you want me to get to the second part. >> come on, it the set-up. >> meanwhile -- >> a 40-minute set-up. >> so hold on, wait. to donald trump on sunday, let me get this straight. on sunday donald trump said he was trying to save jobs in china. huh. that is interesting.
so what happened? on monday? >> the chinese government is expected to contribute half a billion dollars to a trump organization, linked project in indonesia. part of china's belt and road initiative. the loans will help a chinese state-owned construction company build an indonesian theme park with a trump-branded golf course and hotels. advertised as flagship elements. some have noted that while the project began before trump's presidency, his tweet to help out zte. came a mere 72 hours after the chinese government agreed to put half a billion dollars into the indonesian development. essentially half of its funding. reporters asked the white house about this. in yesterday's valuable press briefing. >> can you tell or, explain the
administration's perspective on a, how this wouldn't violate the emoluments clause? and b, how it couldn't violate the president's own promise that his private organization would not be getting involved in new foreign deals while he was president? i'll have to refer to you the trump organization. >> the trump organization can't speak on behalf of the president as the president. the head of the federal government, the one who is responsible, who needs to assure the american people. >> you're asking about a private organization's dealings that may have to do with a foreign government. that's not something that i can speak to. >> i can't even. >> on sunday we get the tweet, willie. he on monday we find out that right before that tweet, chinese government stroked a cool check, $500 million. are they, announced they plan on -- >> it's just -- half a billion dollars to -- i mean it's such a
small world, how could, how, could you imagine to trump organization, project. >> it's serendipity, joe. did you ever see that movie? >> yes. >> like they're skating around in the park and meet each other and it all comes together and it's just -- that's kind of like, it's kind of like the -- the kate blankenship threw up at the end and it's a $500 million check that lands in trump's hands. >> you could see raj shah, he had no answer for it. ask that guy. this has always been the problem, from the time he announced he was going to run for president, somebody who has so much business around the world. so many entangling alliances, there were always going to be conflicts of interest. this one appears to be so blatant and so direct that suddenly he leaves his core campaign promise to protect american jobs just for one day
to protect chinese jobs while this check is being cut. >> it does seem that sarah sanders has a good knack for taking the right day off. raj shah had nowhere to go with that. it's the fundamental truth that donald trump well before he became president had business entanglements throughout the globe, they were going to have conflicts here and the trump 0s made that declaration, that there's no new business after president trump takes office. we've seen that's a blur were line and there are questionable international funding and this is one that raised eyebrows, it's part of put into a larger context the president attempting to take perhaps his foot off the gas a little in terms of the trade war with china. as the north korea summit approaches. he goes to chairman xi, needing his support for that big summit in singapore. >> it didn't make sense, the tweet made no sense whatsoever and that would make sense. they agreed to give him half a
billion dollars. so he agreed to help them out with their company. >> the generous explanation is that this is to give a little space to the north korean negotiation. take some pressure off china. maybe they'll help you out to give you the deal that the president wants? do you buy that? >> or do you buy $500 million? >> the other generous explanation is that has to do with coming one a trade deal with china. because what mnuchin and lighthiser and others brought to beijing was dead on arrival. it was with some of what jared is doing around the middle east. the hostile relationship with qatar, as opposed to other things, when people don't leave behind their previous life, they bring their private and business life into the white house. everything they do is going to raise the appearance or reality of conflicts of interest. at minimum it's an appearance, quite possibility, it's reality.
>> by the way, david ignatius, no president new york city senator, no congressman, no ambassador, no, no, nobody would so dramatically change a policy a couple of days after they found out that they were going to get half a billion dollars invested from china into a project that will directly benefit their company. but that's the thing. that's -- the thing with donald trump. he, he just charges straightforward and again, i think we can all say it's safe, no president none of the 44 presidents before donald trump would have done what he did. the other day. even the, the appearance is so dreadful. >> joe we've rarely had a president with as many international business interests as trump has. it looks awful. even if you assume as i do, that
this has more to do with getting the trade deal with china and preparing the way for north korea than it does any pay-off on business project in indonesia. it looks awful and one thing i'm sure of, the chinese know he's got a stake there the chinese know exactly what they're doing. they do these details right. so whether, whether this was intended as a kind of a gross pay-off, you know, there are little smiles in the great haul hall of the people. the other thing i think that's really striking about this whole chain of events, is the way in which the national security objections to doing business with this chinese phone company, zte. which has been the subject of major investigations as a cyberthreat, military officers, soldiers are not allowed to use zte phones on military bases because they're seen as a threat
and that's the company that donald trump just bailed out. i mean that part of it really boggles the mind. he goes so sharply against his national security officials. >> willie, i always tell the clinton story, because from the 1990s, about how one of the top democratic contributors wanted to send missile technology to china. and all the national security agencies were against it. the state department was against it, the pentagon was against it. you name it, they were all against it. you got ron brown in commerce to sign off on it. he let his big campaign contributor sell advanced missile technology to china. this is just -- the 2008 version of it. this is a far greater threat because for all the reasons that david said. the chinese are listening in like the russians, like the israelis, but this is a known, this is a known abuser.
and donald trump gets 500 million and his organization does. and so now suddenly it's okay? >> and the difference there is bill clinton was doing it on behalf of one of his backers. donald trump and his family is doing it on behalf of donald trump and his family. this is direct, kasie. and what's strike something how bold the trump family continues to be with it. whether it's donald jr. and eric out negotiating deals. for all their talk about putting things into a trust and getting rid of these foreign entanglements businesswise, it's business as usual in large part for the trump organization. >> it sure seems that way. and i think this is one thing that when we look to the horizon of the next six or eight months, there's a lot of talk about what is the most extreme thing we could be dealing with, if say democrats win back the house? impeachment, fine. i actually think the more salient conversation might be around issues like this. if there is either the house or the senate, a chamber with subpoena power in democratic
hands, we are going to learn a lot more, i think, about what is really behind a lot of these deals. we will be able to see, they will be able to make requests for documents, i think that is potentially, if in fact the trump organization is not dotting every i and crossing every t. and i think we can degree thagr they are most likely not doing that, there's a lot of danger ahead for them. >> and jonathan lemire, where you even have republicans, devin nunes, using his influence to expose how the russians. the difference between trumpists running organizations like that, and democrats, i think it's
going to be quite different. >> republicans right now are giving trump and the trump organization a green light. people around the president, his outside network of very close, kitchen adviser who is want the democrats to run on impeachment, go for that. but they are terrified of that. the idea that the democrats could control one of the chambers and just bog down the next two years of investigations, bringing trump official after trump official to the hill with subpoenas we see the inside of the hearing room as a staple every day on the news. >> what's the most corrosive idea in u.s. politics today? the "washington post" eugene robinson says it's the idea that some americans are more real than others. he joyce us next to explain, "morning joe" will be right back. i feel a great deal of urgency...
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defensive and corrosive idea in our politics today is that some americans are more real than others. the whole point of democracy is that every citizen's voice is supposed to have equal weight. third-generation kentucky coal miner and a brooklyn barista should have equal say in charting the course of the nation. trump cleverly uses cultural, racial and geographic markers to define who is real and who has not. and the republican has decided to go along. it's time to call out this ugly charade for what it is. progressives have to speak out. that our voices are authentic and as worthy as anyone else's. i am a real american, too, deal with it. gene, good morning. what are you pegging this to? what is it that the president said that set off the column? >> you know there was nothing -- this is just a pet peeve, willie. something that works on me and i
just, sometimes these things just sort of build up until they really need to get written about on a particular day. apropos of nothing going on in the news. i guess i did think back and mention column to the evening of a white house correspondent's dinner when matt schlapp, the head of the conservative union and his wife head of the communications, of the white house. got so offended about jokes about sarah sanders, that they left the dinner and she tweets that you know, this is why everybody hates the out of touch elite. leftist media. and they tweeted about this about while in a limousine on the way to an nbc after-party. they're a nice couple. just bought a $3 million house,
they're very successful. they're elite by any reasonable definition of the word. yet we sort of let conservatives get away with this false notion that, that all of them are somehow real, and all of us are somehow not. >> gene, what about the talk show, talk radio hosts and talk show hosts -- that play, that play pop lift? that make what, that $ 00 million? make you and me look like pikers here? >> exactly. they're just regular guys and, you know -- >> like 12 more apartment complexes, whatever. seriously. the stupidity of it all that we're supposed to take first of all, donald trump as a populist
and these other clowns as populists and they're somehow representing real america? >> when all they're actually doing is, they're trying to figure out how to make more money for themselves. >> and very successfully. as the recent, the china indonesia story you just told us about, tells us at least the trump family is doing fine. and in fact, all these folks are doing very well under this, this regime. they got a tax cut that showers its benefits on those who, who already are benefitting. >> on that front, donald trump passes tax cuts. he goes down to mar-a-lago. sitting around the table with a bunch of billionaires, sitting there at his mansion, in palm beach. and says, hey, i just made you all a lot of money. i guess what i can't understand is, i can't understand at what
point do people wake up to the fact that what donald trump ran on, running against the entrenched elite, at what point do pe thick up on the fact that he hasn't followed through on that? in fact his policies are the least populist policies you know. in modern american history. if you look at the tax cut, if you look at, just about everything else he's done economically. plus like you said, he's lining his own pocket by doing deals with other countries. >> if i were advising the democratic party, the first step is that democrats have to have to stop buying into this notion that oh, dear, we're, so out of toech touch with the real america and they're in somehow in touch. they're not. they have managed to develop the
sort of rhetorical appeal and cultural appeal. but gene, why can't the democrats do that? why can't the democrats just for one second, stop being so out of touch with people -- i mean all you have to do is look at the counties that, that went democratic and all of the counties that went republican. and it really is, it's along the coastlines, it's in a couple of cities. this is a bigger question for democrats. why are they so out of touch outside of urban centers? >> i have said when you know, when the dust settled from the 2016 election. people started asking, what, you know, who is going to run in 2020? how are they going to do that? and i've always said that this has to start from the ground up. and i think if you look at the, at the candidates, democratic
candidates that have been recruited across the country to run in the mid terms and the sort of grassroots organizing that's going on, i think that process may be under way. now i don't want to be too sort of you know, overly i don't want to get ahead of what's actually happening, we'll see the result. but i think that's the way it happens. i think it happens from the ground up. i think one despairs frankly that it would happen from the top down. given the fai democrats in washington to do the obvious. >> eugene robinson. we'll be reading your latest piece in today's "washington post." coming up, reports of tension between trump and pence teams. is the president now dispatching one of his loyalists to help keep the vice president in check? "morning joe" is coming right back. as a control enthusiast,
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first lady melania trump remains in the hospital this morning after undergoing treatment for a benign kidney condition. according to mrs. trump's office, the first lady was admitted to walter reed national military medical center for an embolization procedure. she is expected to remain in the hospital for the rest of the week. the white house did not say why mrs. trump had the procedure other than to say it was a benign condition. president trump visited her yesterday evening and tweeted that the procedure was successful. he also said that the first lady was in good spirits and thanked well wishers. former senate majority leader harry reid is also recovering this morning after surgery to remove a cancerous tumor from his pancreas. according to a statement from reid's family, doctors caught the problem early during a routine screening and surgeons are confident that the procedure was a success. they say his prognosis for
recovery is good and will undergo chemotherapy as the next step in his treatment. coming up, the uk, france, and germany are calling on israel to show restraint dealing with protesters in gaza as the trump administration and israel lay blame squarely on hamas. nbc's andrea mitchell and admiral james stavridis join the discussion. plus, bob mueller hits back at efforts to undermine his investigation into russia's election meddling. and also we're going to talk about that $500 million chinese payoff to the trump organization and ask, i think, what everybody has to be asking now. is that why donald trump is allowing a company company that poses a security threat to the united states of america to get back on their feet and start producing phones again? that's all ahead on "morning joe." if you've been diagnosed with cancer,
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welcome back to "morning joe." >> how are you guys doing? >> joe is depressed about the rain. >> i'm not depressed about the rain -- >> yeah, you are. >> it's going to rain for the next 12 months everywhere. >> there's a show on. >> what show is on. >> "morning joe." >> "bonanza." >> i love james cartwright. little joe? you like little joe. >> i'm a little joe fan. that was his show. >> that was his show. then "little house on the prairie."
lot of littles with michael landon. so it appears, mika, it's going to be raining. i don't know what we're going to do. we have a problem. >> i don't have a problem. >> you know in "sound of music" "how do you solve a problem like maria?" it's been 20 degrees and raining for the past year. this is us. i'm coaching and willie and i were talking about this, i'm coaching a baseball team for a nine-year-old boy. willie, do you know how hard it has been to try to find times to practice this season. i'm dead serious. starting in march it's been like 35 degrees and raining. >> we got rained out last weekend, rained out before that. we'll play half our game because of bill karins. it's bill karins and his hatred for young boys and girls who just want to get outside. >> if gene robinson is going to write a story on things that bug him i think bill karins should
be at the top of the list. >> i notice he's nowhere to be found. >> may i introduce the show now? >> i guess. >> with us, the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. >> he hates cairkarins, too. >> jonathan lemire, david ignatius and nbc news -- can we do it? are we just going to be -- capitol hill correspondent -- that's what the weather looks like. host of kasie d.c. on msnbc. and joining the conversation, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. >> we're sorry, andrea. it's a bad morning. >> it gets worse. >> i'm here to protect kasie. >> and also the former nato supreme allied commander -- >> he might lob a missile at us. >> -- retired four star navy admiral, shame on you all, james stavridis. he's chief international
security and diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. i will say the title is a little long, admiral. >> mika, come on. what do you have to do here? blah blah blah, admiral, awesome. >> andrea mitchell, a real thrill for you yesterday. i think it was yesterday. you got to deliver the commencement address at your alma mater. >> that was amazing. >> it was an amazing honor. i felt overwhelmed, just the joy. those kids are so smart. thousands of kids and their parents, of course in franklin field in an historic stadium so it was beautiful. quite a day for me. >> let's launch. president trump suggested sunday he wanted to help save chinese jobs. >> why not? make china great again. >> it seems china is also working on jobs, helping to build a trump-branded golf resort in indonesia. interesting. over the weekend, the president pledged to work with president
xi to held telecon giant zte saying too many jobs in china had been lost. the company was punished by the u.s. government accused of shipping goods made with american parts illegally to iran and north korea. meanwhile, the chinese government is expected to contribute half a billion dollars to a trump organization linked project in indonesia. the loans will help a chinese state-owned construction company build an indonesian theme park with a trump-branded golf course and hotels advertised as flagship elements. >> half a billion dollars. >> nothing wrong with that. while the project began before trump's presidency, his tweet to help out zte came out two hours after the chinese government agreed to put half a million dollars into the indonesian development, half of its funding. reporters asked about this in the press briefing.
>> reporter: can you explain the administration's perspective on, a, how this wouldn't violate the emoluments clause and, b, how it wouldn't violate the president's own promise that his private organization would not be getting involved in new foreign deals while he was president? >> i'll have to refer you to the trump organization. >> the trump organization can't speak on behalf of the president as the president, the head of the federal government, the one who is responsible who needs to assure the american people -- >> you're asking about a private organization's dealings that may have to do with a foreign government. that's not something that i can speak to. >> well, richard, it's something they should speak to because they aren't going to go after new projects. here you have 72 hours after half a billion dollars lands in indonesia to help this trump proje project. let's look at this from 30,000 feet and not just look at this
pay to play scheme. it's something that looks like a pay to play scheme. the chinese are very good at this. they don't try to cover their tracks. ivanka trump goes to china and suddenly the license for her shoes and all these other things are lifted and there has been a concern for some time, hasn't there, among foreign policy leaders that trump family business could distort u.s. foreign policy whether you look at trump being very positive towards the philippines, towards turkey because they're trump-branded projects there or, of course, cut sr. the worst example of this so far. >> there's a lot of smoke. the fact that we're having this conversation is in and of itself -- it tells you all you need to know because there's the appearance of conflict of interest, whether it's what we're doing in the middle east in the case of qatar funding or not funding jared's business empire. >> explain that for people that didn't follow that closely.
>> the kushner family did a major -- it was in the need for funds -- >> 666. >> they bought it at the market peak, needed all sorts of funding and they're trying to get it from qatar, that didn't come through and the story making the rounds -- i have no evidence -- is that therefore qatar was going to be penalized and one of the administrations so affiliated or associated itself with saudi arabia and the united arab emirates was to put cut f qatar in the penalty box. i'm not sitting here with evidence but the mere fact that we're having this conversation or the idea that the president would be concerned with chinese workers and unemployment levels -- >> and it's the timing, david ignatius. let's talk about the qatar incident and china where the united states deviates, donald trump deviates pretty dramatically from established policy from what he promised to. do you can talk about china and suddenly donald trump concerned about jobs in china, it was
something that baffled absolutely everybody anding go back to qatar where a lot of foreign policy experts were scratching their heads. when was that? last summer? a lot of foreign policy experts scratching their heads and saying wait a second, the united states has a massive naval base. the kushner's go over, try to raise money for 666, they don't get the money and suddenly the united states is putting qatar in the penalty box. it's certainly -- the appearance, at least, is terrible and these cases and many more. >> joe, this is the reason that we in a normal administration have serious rules about conflict of interest. every foreign government of every administration i've covered loves to play games like this. you go back to billy carter, jimmy carter's brother. you go back to nixon's brother, it's always an effort to use somebody to get special
advantage, to have the appearance of inside influence. foreign governments live for moments like this and smart administrations understand that and want to protect themselves. in the two cases that you're citing with qatar and the chinese, i don't need to know whether or not there's been an actual payoff to know that it stinks to have the appearance and as richard said to be discussing this. that's the opposite of what governments should do. with qatar they've gone back and forth, they were with the saudis, then they've been seeming to be demanding rapprochement with cut fqatar i recent weeks. >> well, let's talk again about how bad the appearances are and how no other administration would be this reckless or
shameless. the kushners go over, they ask for money, they don't get money to fund 666 and suddenly u.s. foreign policy against qatar changes. even the recklessness, the refusal to be concerned about how bad this looks puts the trump administration in a league of their own. >> i agree. that's -- i think the appearance of conflict of interest, the suggestion that this was pay for play is damaging in itself. we now have a special counsel who is conducting the most serious legal investigation to find out whether charges like this have any factual foundation and i think it's important to distinguish between the appearance issues, which are real and should be dealt with, and the question, was this done for money? we don't know the answer and we shouldn't pretend we do. >> andrea mitchell, we should play the game can you imagine what donald trump had said if
candidate clinton or president obama or the clinton foundation had written something like too many jobs in china lost which is what he wrote in his tweet. >> exactly. >> but what this raises, andrea, is the reminder the president has not divested that he's still at the top of a company doing business with foreign governments that's in some cases rewarding foreign governments for helping his organization, that his sons, that his son-in-law and daughter are going around the world making deals on behalf of a company from which he is profiting plain and simple. >> and it's so awful because it's not just the appearance of conflict, there are no coincidences like this. just ten days to two weeks ago his top trade negotiators were in china demanding a complete restructuring of the chinese economy, ridiculous demands that -- for round two is going to lead to no solutions at all and suddenly this pivot on sunday in declaring chinese jobs
are more important than anything else, on top of ignoring all of the intelligence advice that this telecom company is involved in all kinds of espionage and cyber war so you've got so many conflicts here, emoluments, cyber warfare, ignoring the intelligence advisers noon predictability on trade policy and it shows no strategic plan at all other than some kind of impulsive change based on personal diplomacy with xi? >> maybe a business deal. >> and this is a company that had been penalized for ignoring sanctions against iran and north korea. tell me how that tracks with the iran policy? >> great point. we always were talking about how bad it looked that hillary clinton became secretary of
state, bill clinton's speech is doubled from $250,000 to $500,000, he would go to countries that had business before the state department and we're talking about $500,000? we're talking about $500 million here 5, $00 million that donald trump's organization got and 72 hours later he's worried about chinese jobs. admiral, the problem here again is it goes far beyond donald trump using his office to make half a billion dollars as andrea points out, as richard points out, as the papers are pointing out today. this is a national security issue. this compromises america's national security by letting this chinese company get off the floor. >> it absolutely does and i want to draw a line under what andrea said. this country in particular
deserves no special treatment whatsoever from the united states, they had been a force for darkness in cyber and the theft of intellectual property. we should not be cutting them the slightest of breaksing in my vie view. that's the tactical concern we're addressing. here's the strategic concern. it's this whipsawing of policy as the world looks at us. so for a year we've been talking about china, the trade deficit, we'll get it under control, we've been pushing on china then all of a sudden we're going to rescue a chinese company. it's very simple to kim jong-un, little rocket man, fire and fury then three weeks ago he's the honorable kim, a couple days ago he has a gracious gesture in returning the hostages he took from the united states. your head spins like linda blair the exorcist.
that's a strategic concern that sits along the tactical one. >> a nice pop cultural reference for those of us over 554 years f age. so speaking of policies, let's look at this one, admiral and i'll stay with you here. i've always been pro-israel, my friends in congress joked any time i wanted a key to the city of tel aviv they would gladly give it to me. i talked about how we should at some point move the embassy to jerusalem and yet the timing of this, again, without, as we say all the time, without laying ground work and for me the worst part of it, without getting anything from benjamin netanyahu who has shown time and time again he will not risk anything for peace, he will not sacrifice anything for peace, he plays the most cynical game and as somebody that is pro-israel as
anybody and certainly was in congress and i have been for most of my life, i want peace for the israelis and this is not the way to get peace for the israelis. you certainly don't give up this massive bargaining chip, do you, without getting anything back from net knew. >> you're exactly right. i'm with you on israel. i completed a major study of how to improve u.s. and israeli defense cooperation. the real problem here, joe is this act isolates israel even further from the global community. it isolates the united states. everybody else is saying let's be cautious. let's move slowly on this. this is the only thing you can think of that vladimir putin and the pope agree on and then
finally and worst who's the big winner here? i would argue iran because you're driving a wedge between israel and the sunni arab states and that's the big muscle movement in the middle east right now is israel and the sunni arabs coming together to face iran. so this might be good politics but it's bad geopolitics. >> admiral, add hamas to it. >> absolutely. >> every time hamas is on the ropes, it happened three, four years ago. every time hamas is on the ropes, every time hamas proves that they are incapable of governing, every time hamas proves they are incapable of bettering the lives of the palestinian people, the united states or netanyahu comes in and literally saves them from themselves. and it happened again. >> right. indeed, we throw them a lifeline and you have to be -- you have to support israel but you have to do in the a balanced way that recognizes that over time they
have to reach an accommodation of some kind with the palestinians. the peace process was dead already but this is a few more kicks to the dead carcass. this was, again, bad geopolitics and over the long haul it's going to hurt israel more than it helps israel. >> a lack of strategic vision to use my dad's phrase. >> and continues a pattern for this president where there is some concerns about the upcoming kim jong-un summit where the president agrees to meet with the north korean leader without getting anything in exchange. the hostages were released but no other conditions agreed to beforeha beforehand. it seems like that's the case with the embassy. not getting something concrete from israel before making this move. andrea, yesterday, the white house, it was very stranging, deputy press secretary raj shah refused to offer any condemnation of what israel did or just suggesting to them to show restraint or express any
sympathy for the loss of life. how striking is that? how different is that from any other administration that would have handled that situation. >> it was extraordinary. i've never seen anything like that. even the strongest supporters of israel in administrations republican and democratic would at that point say be proportional. be cautionary and there was no restraint. israel is now so empowered because of the administration's enmity with iran that they now feel clearly that they can do anything. >> andrea, we're looking at the split screen between what was going on and what looked like a vip tent at the belmont stakes. >> devastating. >> and what was happening is over 50 palestinians were killed. >> and the real loser here, the palestinians are losers, they've had dreadful leadership for decades, we know that and it's not just hamas, it's both branches of the palestinian government, abbas is a disgrace by now. so they've been disempowered but
the real loser is one of our strongest allies never mentioned by anyone, king abdullah of jordan who has majority palestinian country who is going to be overwhelmed. saudi arabia and the uae, they're not going to care if in this grand scheme of jared kushner's the palestinians are lost in the shuffle. but king abdullah will lose his count country. he's completely vulnerable at risk and they're now mouthing generalities about the persian gulf world about the palestinians, who they don't really care about, but those on the front lines care. it's just to me appalling that we have no vision at all, we got nothing for it, no pullback on settlements, there's no balancing act here. >> richard where does this leave us? the embassy has been moved as the president promised. many presidents promised but once they became president they didn't follow through on it.
president trump says to evangelicals, he says to the israeli people this is a historic day, i did what i said i was going to do for you. where does it leave not just israel and the palestinians but where does it leave the united states? >> it leaves us with a diplomatic vacuum that will get filled with the violence we're seeing at the fence between yankees and israel. the irony, this administration if a representative was sitting here would say they're the most pro-israel administration in history but at the end of the day, this doesn't help israel. israel needs a palestinian state not as a favor to palestinians or a moral issue but they need it to preserve israel as a democratic jewish secure state and it's not going to happen by itself. middle east peace making with the exception of the oslo, which didn't ultimately work, doesn't happen by itself. it takes the united states to play a large role and without us it's going to drifts and drift
will bring us more of the violence except the screen won't be split. increasingly the screen will be on the side of the violence rather than anything diplomatic. >> what's the impact david ignatius? are you concerned about the impact of our allies across the region, egypt, saudi arabia, jordan, the uae, others certainly are faithful allies to the united states for the most part. what's the concern, though, that the events of yesterday and the events that are sure to follow actually as andrea says may possibly destabilize these rejames comeys? >> well, the issue of the palestinians is powerful today as it's been for decades in the streets, in these countries, in jordan, in egypt, even in saudi arabia. and so it's going to be a
problem for those countries to see this level of violence. i also worry that this violence is going to be used by iran and by turkey to attack both yids and the united states, to push their agenda and i think that also will deepen the fractures within the muslim world in a way that's not good for the u.s. -- not good for anybody. the -- i was struck watching jared kushner as he made his remarks in that two tableau scene you've been showing saying how this shows america sticks by its friends and it's great to stick by your friends, in this middle east diplomacy, the united states has also sought to be a mediator and broker and somehow that whole idea that we're an honest broker, we're going to help people solve problems, has been chucked out
the window and you could hear it in kushner's voice. that's not what we want to do. we're not in the mediating business, we here in the stand by your friends business. >> we've been friends with israel, richard, since 1948. but something unique has happened over the past decade. saudi arabia, egypt, jordan, the sunni middle east moving closer to the united states for the first time, i remember the first time years ago seeing the arab league actually stand with us. that never happened or very rarely happened. it's happening now but again we can stand by our allies in israel but we have an opportunity to also stand by our allies in the sunni middle east, we've just made their lives so much more difficult and also opened up the possibility of islamic fundamentalism sweeping through those countries.
>> not just those countries. also the palestinians and also israeli arabs. 20% of israel is an arab population. you don't want to see the radicalization of that population within israel's borders. look, the united states has has been and is support iv of israel. it doesn't mean we're uncritical or have our own foreign policy objectiv objectives. one of the reasons the arab countries never minded a close relationship is because they thought we had influence we were able to use. if we show we're unwilling to use that influence the arab reg relationship with us will deteriorate and several of us have said is what shared and others need to understand is that u.s. foreign policy throughout the world isn't just our relationship with governments and foreign ministers. these governments have to take into account their own populations, their own streets. they'll have to distance themselves from us if thepts to remain in power, that's not the dynamic we want to set in motion. >> and only a fool believes
things can't get worse. as bad as we view hamas right now, it can get so much worse. >> i think that's what we're looking at. we want to thank admiral james stavridis for being on. >> greatly appreciate it. >> andrea mitchell, we'll watch "andrea mitchell reports" at noon eastern on msnbc and still ahead on "morning joe" how bernie won. he's not president but a new book says the vermont senator's revolution is already taking back the country. we'll talk to the author who happened to be his campaign manager. but first, there are several updates in the bob mueller investigation. who's cooperationing with the special counsel and who is not? and be sure to check out our "morning joe" news ledder. >> i can't start the day without the newsletter. >> well, you and i are up at 3:00 typing it out. >> apparently you get the best conversation and analysis from the show. you can subscribe now by testing "morning joe," all one word, to
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that's a good one. [ chuckles ] download the xfinity my account app and set a password you can easily remember. one more way comcast is working to fit into your life, not the other way around. a ukrainian politician linked to president trump's attorney says he's been called to testify before a grand jury connected to special counsel robert mueller's investigation. andre artemenko told politico he received a subpoena last week and that he would appear in person. in february of 2017, the "new york times" reported that trump business associate felix seder introduced artemenko, then a member of ukraine's parliament, to michael cohen outlining a plan for ukraine to make peace with russia and lift u.s. sanctions. cohen told the "times" sater
gave him the appeal in a sealed envelope and cohen said he left the proposal in then national security adviser michael flynn's office. days after the "times" report, cohen told feebs he met with artemenko but denied delivering the document. artemenko, who was later stripped of ukrainian citizenship and accused of treason told politico he assumes investigators will ask him about it. joining us now former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid and white house bureau chief at the "washington post" and political analyst for msnbc and nbc news, philip rucker. he was part of the reporti inin piece "buckle up, as mueller probe enters second year, trump and allies go on war footing." barbara, i'll start with you and ask you about the cohen/artemenko exchange. is that bad? >> it could be.
>> it depends on what information was being shared and what was being asked for in exchange but it raises the question as to whether cohen was acting as an agent of a foreign government and that requires registration with the federal government. that was the crime with which manafort and richard gates were charged so that could expose him, the mere fact if he did deliver an envelope on his behalf that could constitute a crime. then there's the contents. what were they asking for in exchange. if there is hypothetically bribe being offered in exchange for official action or decision on sanctions that could be a serious crime so i can imagine why robert mueller wants to learn more about that. >> kasie? >> phil rucker, i read you and ashley's nab louse reporting in the "washington post" and that one detail about how the president talks to people 20 times a day about michael cohen and this the raid was a turning
point for him, what does your reporting tell you? is that because he knows what they may have found and it may be something like what we're talking about with this ukrainian business tie or is that there are many unknowns agitating the president so much? >> i think kasie it's a combination of all of the above. the raids of cohen brought this into a very personal realm for president trump. we know now michael cohen was responsible for that hush money payment to stormy daniels, that there may have been other arrangements he orchestrated on behalf of the president over many years and that's why he's so alarmed by it and while the president says again and again no collusion, no collusion, i didn't do anything wrong, there's still a heightened sense of alarm inside the white house and in trump's orbit that associates very close to him including cohen but others as well could become ensnared in
dangerous ways in this probe. >> that ukraine story is a reminder that it was a month after the inauguration, that cohen and others were so concerned about russia and ukraine as one of their first priorities. i want to ask you about michael cohen, the story reported last week about essential consulting and the money that went through that shop. it seems to me there are a couple scenarios, people who defended michael cohen and the trump administration say there's nothing illegal if they were just seeking his counsel, but where do you see legal trouble here? if it's that he was lobbying he should have been registered. is there anything else you can see as a crime or problem for him or the president? >> i think's a whole spectrum of possibilities and that's why i imagine investigators will want to get to the facts, which will be very important. if he's holding himself out as a trump expert who can tell companies how trump thinks and they want to pay for that, that's not a crime. it seems slimy but not
necessarily criminal. if he is representing companies with the administration then he needs to register as a lobbyist. the reporting says he has not registered as a lobbyist, that's a five-year felony so that's a serious crime. if he is lying to companies about his ability to influence the government and the administration and he's accepting money and engaging in wire transfers or mailings on that, that could be a mail or wire fraud scheme. then at the final end, the far end, would be is there any bribery or exportion goitortion? does he have influence with members of the trump administration? is he accepting these payments on behalf of getting official acts done on his behalf? for example the at&t merger. if he were able to influence that decision and a decision maker knowingly committed an official act, say approved that merger for these payments, that could be bribery at the far end of the spectrum. so i imagine investigators are trying to figure out where on the spectrum this conduct lies. >> phil, it's jonathan, great
piece. >> thank you. >> you talk about how the white house is preparing a war footing with the mueller probe but beyond rudy giuliani who is out there as an attack dog with mixed results, what will that look like? is it what we're hearing from the vice president calling for the mueller probe to wrap up? what other strategies will they use in the weeks ahead to put pressure on mueller? >> i think we'll see more of a public relations assault so we'll see the president talking about this. you saw vice president pence calling for an end to the investigation. we've heard others in the administration, certainly the press secretary say it's time for it to come to an end and i think the other element is trump is trying to do other things, he's trying to engage in foreign policy to signal to his base his presidency is worth protecting and fighting for that and that it's worst trying to extinguish
the threat of mueller or the democrats taking over the house of representatives in the midterm elections, it will be a political rallying cry. in terms of what they'll do legally. i'm not sure there is much they can do other than proceed afoot and delay the decision on whether the president would sit for that interview with mueller which they seem to be doing at least until mid-june after the summit with kim jong-un in singapore. >> all right. barbara mcquaid and philip rucker, thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you. coming up, some of those close to the president are reportedly concerned that mike pence is trying to take the reins of donald trump's republican party. how the president and his team are responding ahead on "morning joe."
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allen that it was president trump who asked his former campaign manager to join the vice president's team. this comes as a "new york times" report claims top aides to president trump are growing frustrated with the vice president's increased political portfolio as he's attended dozens of party event this is campaign season and has emerged as a chief promoter of the president's policy agenda. the "times" reports -- sounds like he's doing his job? i don't know. the "times" reports "republican officials now see mr. pence as seeking to exercise expansive control over a political party ostensibly helmed by mr. trump, tending to his own allies and interests even when the president's instincts lead in another direction. the paper adds trump's fiercest loyalists fear pence and his chief of staff nick ayers are forging a separate power base. a spokesman for the vice president says he's just carrying out the 2018 strategy
that he and the president formed with congressional leadership. the tension between pence and trump is also laid out in this politico report detailing multiple times where the president has changed his plans to either upstage or even bump the vp off the stage. a former white house official who served in the trump campaign tells politico, quote, it was always pretty apparent pence had a role and that role was to be subservient to trump. the official adds pence should be not seen and not heard and put away in a corner and used as needed. >> kasie hunt, the reality is in 2018 there will be a plot of places where a candidate may want mike pence there to bring together traditional republican support without the negatives that donald trump may bring to inspect voters, so me so mike py
play an outsized role this midterm election, right? >> that's absolutely true and mike pence has the advantage of being organized and disciplined in a way this white house and in particular this president is not. the one thing that sticks out to me is quite frankly i am surprised that vice president pence has been able to go this long without these stories surfacing in the press about him waiting in the wings behind the scenes. nick ayers, who was mentioned in the read, the president's chief of staff, vice president's chief of staff now. when that staff move got made is when i said to myself okay, pence is making real political behind-the-scenes moves. he got rid of the indiana people who came here with him from when he was governor of indiana. a lot of those folks no longer in top positions. that's not universally true, marc short, the legislative liaison in the white house was close to pence for a long time but he's been very deft behind
the scenes. every time there's a negative story about this president that relates to the mueller probe, there's an anonymous pence aide who is there and very available to tell you that, you know what? mr. pence was not aware of that, mr. pence was not in the administration when that happened, this happened well before his time, mr. pence was lied to about michael flynn. i think it says a lot about the way he is positioning himself and quite frankly he is in dangerous territory if this becomes a snowball of reporting. >> wow. >> and jonathan he is in dangerous territory if there's the know ball effect. at the same time you have nikki haley at the united nations right now making waves. she's a zero for republicans even though at times she goes out of her way to oppose the president's lax positions on russia. so mike pence finds himself in this very interesting position, people around pence aren't so sure donald trump will be around
in 2020, if that's the case he may be running against nikki haley so he has to get ready. >> pence has been more subtle than haley has done. people say that's part of a strategy, you want to stay in trump's good graces is gaze at him lovingly which he does when he stands next to him at a press conference but there is no question there have been subtle efforts to draw lines, to keep himself shielded from these russian-related matters to make himself more of a bridge to republicans on capitol hill, to tend to party business that donald trump doesn't seem interested in doing and to this point he has managed -- the president himself still seems largely fond of pence but there are people around trump, other west wing officials who have taken note of this who have gotten a little answery aboants moves he might be making not just in preparation for 2024 but maybe 2020 if donald trump
doesn't run again. >> and willie, i have heard from trump people over the past several months that there is some doubt, they have doubts, nothing we've heard from donald trump but they have doubts that donald trump will run in 2020. so if there are people close to trump that believe he may not run in 2020, then pence has got to get ready and nikki haley is -- she's building her own power base everyday at the united nations. >> i've heard the same thing about 2020. i still believe when push comes to shove donald trump wants to be a two-term president for the history books. he's concerned with what his historic portrait looks like. but remember it was about five days ago when mike pence told andrea mitchell that the mueller investigation should be shut down so he speaks when he needs to on behalf of the president but i think if trump is actually worried, if the reporting is true about mike pence, that reveals an insecurity deeper than we even knew. >> oh, he's an insecure man.
>> if you think mike pence is doing an end round to take the nomination -- >> that happened the other day. pence had to dirty himself because trump was getting so mad. we know trump and pence had to soil himself. >> and mike pence is constantly balancing -- he has to balance his loyalty to donald trump but he's also got to see what is happening at the united nations >> she's great and she's separated herself so well from the president. she has no concerns, she does what's right, she says what's right. she won't be a loyalist for no reason or dirty her name and her future for donald trump. >> it was noted yesterday she received perhaps the largest round of applause at the embassy dedication in jerusalem. >> in part the reason why is because nikki haley unlike so many other people around donald trump is still a conservative
and she still speaks the truth about vladimir putin. she still speaks the truth about russia, she still speaks the truth about nato. she still speaks the truth about our allies. there are all these sycophants and suckups because they're either lobbyists or they want to be in donald trump's good graces for other reasons that have forgotten what it is like to be a conservative. forgotten what it was like to stand up to russia. forgot what it was like to stand up for nato. nikki haley hasn't for gotten and she will be rewarded. i don't know if you can say the same for mike pence. >> it's so easy when it's the right thing yet they make it so far for themselves. still ahead, bernie sanders didn't win the 2016 election but his former campaign manager says he did. jeff weaver joins us next to explain. .
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campaign manager for bernie sanders. jeff, gom. good to have you with us. you've got a glad blurb from the top. let's talk about the title. "how bernie won." what prevailed? >> i think a lot of that started in our campaign in 2016. there's obviously been a lot of other influences, the women's movement and other movements, imgrant rights movement has sort of become activated under the trump presidency but i think you saw the spark of this in the campaign and then i would also say on the policy side, when bernie started he was talking about things like free public college. he was talking about universal health care. he was talking about $15 minimum wage. those are all articles of faith
from the democratic party now and they were out on the fringe at the beginning of that campaign. >> hillary clinton and others roll their eyes when they hear free colleges for everybody with the question who pays for that. is some of the sanders' agenda or some of his ideas too pie in the sky, some of the promises he makes? >> you never know where the edge of what's possible is until you reach for what's not possible and i think what people are looking for is a bold agenda. they want a leader that's going to take us as far as we can go. if you only shoot halfway you never get to where you can go. >> owhwhat is his plan to help democrats if he wants to between now and the midterm election? >> he has been around the country activating the grass roots. he held rallies around the tax bill. he held rallies around the president's attempt to dismantle the affordable care act.
he's raised millions of dollars for the democrats the nst two years and he's been going around the country rallying with candidates. he was in the upper midwest. he was in the southwest. so he's been all over the country to rally the base. >> hi, jeff. good to see you again. what would you say are the things that might convince bernie sanders not to run for president in 2020? >> a meteor falling on his head. >> well, as you know, you covered the race -- >> i did. >> a presidential race is a very grueling exercise professionally, personally, on one's family and i think what he is interested in is making sure that the progression vision that he articulated is carried forward into the future and this is only my personal belief. if he believes he's the best person to do that he may run. if he thinks somebody else can
carry the mantle maybe he'll let somebody else run. >> right now i'm not hearing no. >> well, i think he's not said no and not said yes. >> there are a hundred people running for president next. >> there's all this debate of which direction the democratic party should go. do they go to warren or do they capture back some of the voters that left for donald trump. what lessons do you think were learned from 2016? what should the party have learned from 2016? >> well, i think the way you've put up your question is false. it's not a chance of bernie sanders, elizabeth warren or the people we lost to donald trump. you know, what happened was with the clinton presidency and the sort of aberrational move to the right by the 90s we lost the
working class mplts there were attacks on communities of color. there were attacks on the lgbt communities. we've got to return to what the modern democratic party historically did which is to build the fdr coalition that try to spread around the country. >> they always end with #bernie sanders. the young love him. the new book is "how bernie won, inside the revolution that's taking back our country and where we go from here." >> it's nixon now. >> now more than ever. >> still ahead, the president promised to save chinese jobs and a couple of days later we're learning that china is set to contribute half a billion dollars to a project tied to the tu trump organization. it feels a little weird like maybe something's wrong with
that. plus the president side steps his aide's controversial remark about john mccain choosing instead to go after the leakers calling them traitors and cowards. and violence flares up again in gaza in the wake of the opening of the u.s. embassy in jerusalem. "morning joe" is coming right back. what? directv gives you more for your thing. your... quitting cable and never looking back thing. directv is rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable. switch to directv and now get a $100 reward card. more for your thing. that's our thing. call 1.800 directv. your plaques are always there at the worst times. constantly interrupting you with itching, burning and stinging. being this uncomfortable is unacceptable.
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and we got to know the friends of our friends.r the friends. and we found others just like us. and just like that we felt a little less alone. but then something happened. we had to deal with spam, fake news, and data misuse. that's going to change. from now on, facebook will do more to keep you safe and protect your privacy. because when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer. >> we pointed out the juxtaposition on the scenes from
yesterday. on the left the embassy opening ceremony and on the right less than 50 miles away gaza where at least 58 people were killed yesterday. more than 2,700 others wounded as they convened near the border fence. welcome to "morning joe." it's tuesday, may 15th. we have white house reporter for the associated press, the president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book a world in disarray, richard haas. columnist and associate editor for the washington post dav, an host of caseie dc. >> we're going to get to the news, but one of -- one of the more concerning days in the middle east in some time. you could look at the chaos as the wall street journal says that spread across gaza and
across the region yesterday. you could also look at what happened in iraq and america's sworn enemy throughout most of the iraq war actually his -- his group of politicians doing better than anybody else really does show you what a waste, an absolute waste of time, money, resources, life the united states engaged in over the past decade trying to make iraq into a jeffersonian democracy. they're not -- there are not my thomas jeffersons over there. there aren't any al-capone's over there. >> i don't think they've sold out the arabic translations.
and it raises the fundamental question about the idea of being ambitious when it comes to try to clang the political dna of countries and it really reenforces not for the first time the lack of having gotten ambitious in iraq and the situation between israelis and palestinians. beyond questions of tactically what's happened at the border it shows how neither side, neither the palestinians nor israel have any strategy. what we have is violence in the absence of strategy on either side. >> and david, we've all been noting for some time that there are unique opportunities in the middle east because the sunny arab nations have drawn closer to israel in their alliance against a growing iranian threat across that region, but at this
point, when you have the images that we had yesterday, the split screen out of israel that we had yesterday, at some point it really doesn't matter what cc in egypt thinks about the palestinians or what mbs in saudi arabia thinks, whether he's tired of the palestinian cause or not. this -- this actually causes unrest across the region, does it not? around actually makes it more difficult for us to move forward with our sunni allies. >> these images, the contrast will shock people in the middle east. it should be a shocking contrast for people all over the world. that degree of violence. 58 dead, 2,700 injured is extraordinary. i have to say that the saudis and others still have a nominal
commitment to the palestinian cause. they say all the right things, certainly their people get upset but there is a way in which they're more focused. it's a fact, they're now more focused on iran. that's one reason why israel feels more comfortable dealing with this in the way it thinks it needs to. so there is a way in which the palestinian issue gets less focus than it did at any time since i've been covering the middle east and that goes back to 1980. but this is a day where you just saw the blockage to really echo what richard was saying, the obstacles in the way of moving forward in the middle east. moving forward to israel to the kind of state israelis want and want to celebrate moving forward in iraq toward something more stable. it's still a long way to go. >> and mika, for the rest of the world, you actually saw an administrati
administration, a white house and we'll say it since ivanka trump was there, a family completely out of touch with the realities of the region that they're dealing with and you know, it -- you had 55 -- 55 people killed yesterday? >> 58. >> 58. and you lhad a split careen of wh -- screen of what looked like a vip tent at the belmont stakes and they seemed totally oblivious to what was going on not so far away. >> the international committee of the red cross warned that the health system in gaza is quote, on the verge of collapse due to strain. several nations have called for an emergency meeting of the u.n. security council with the palestinian rep calling the israeli actions in gaza, quote, war crimes. nato ally turkey has declared three days of mourning in
solidarity with the protests. it's also announced drawing its ambassadors to israel and the united states for turkey's president also says there will be a big demonstration in istanbul on friday. >> if turkey wants to withdraw from nato at the same time, that's fine with us. >> yeah. >> the israeli military says it acted after nearly 40,000 people descended on the border with fire bombs and explosive devices and rocks as part of violent riots in an attempt to reach the border fence including some who sent a bomb along the fence. presidential advisor mentioned the protests in his comments at the embassy opening yesterday. >> by moving our embassy to jerusalem, we have shown the world once again that the united states can be trusted. we stand with our friends and our allies and above all else, we've shown that the united
states of america will do what's right. president trump was very clear that his decision and today's celebration do not reflect a departure from our strong commitment to lasting peace, a peace that overcomes the conflicts of the past in order to give our children a brighter and more boundless future. as we have seen from the protests of the last month and even today, those provoking violence are part of the problem and not part of the solution. >> we're aware of the reports of continued violence in gaza today. the responsibility for these tragic deaths rests squarely with hamas. hamas is intentionally and sin cli provoking this response and as a secretary of state said israel has the right to defend itself. >> so to be clear, does the u.s. not agree with the french that israeli authorities should exercise discretion and restraint? >> we believe that hamas is responsible for going on. >> but there's no responsibility on that on the israeli authorities, kill at will?
>> what i'm saying that we believe hamas is engaged in cynical action that's leading to these deaths. >> the official transcript did not include the part where he blames the protesters for the violence. as you watched these scenes play out yesterday and the world watches them play out, you know, palestinians said from the moment the idea was floated of moving the embassy to jerusalem, that this would take any peace deal off the table, that americans were not good faith partners in that act. as you watched yesterday, can you imagine peace talks that jared kushner was supposed to have nicinitiated and supposed be overseen the last couple of months or so? >> the short answer is no, the long answer is no. but yesterday showed israel does not have a good pact for dealing with pressure at the border but they don't have a strategic plan. what the u.s. has done is taken
itself largely out of the game with the idea that we could be legitimately accepted. a so-called honest broker and acceptable to both sides. increasingly suspect. so yesterday was about as -- just when you think things can't get worst in the middle east, yesterday shows no, actually they can. and what you have here in gaza, this is a place -- i think i mentioned yesterday. it's the most dense population in the world. 1.5 to 2 million people twice the size of washington, d.c. two thirds of the people are under 25 years old. this is more than just hamas orchestrating it. hamas is also running behind to catch up. so it doesn't lose any sense of leadership there. this is a situation where -- if people are hopeless they're going to do dangerous and suicidal things. that's what we saw yesterday and the long-term strategic question for the united states and israel is how do we change this
dynamic? you do not want to have this day after day after day. so what do we do to change this dynamic? i heard nothing yesterday that we have the slightest clue about how to change this dynamic. >> still ahead on "morning joe." >> to keep jobs in china, to bring jobs to china, to create real prosperity for china. the country that we love. >> okay. to be fair, that was our editor's interpretation of president's tweet pushing to save chinese jobs. >> or to make half a billion dollars. you pick. >> exactly. >> carroll is behind door two. >> we'll get to the latest on that and how china's half billion dollar investment into a trump branded development is now part of the story. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> i'd pay him just to forecast some sun. >> and then shut up. >> yeah, that wasn't nice.
about five or six days until you guys get a lot of sunshine. you'll deal with severe storms today. yesterday colorado. we've shown you huge hail before but how about deep hail? it looks like a sflnowstorm hit. the guy has a know -- snow blower out in shorts mplts to we're watching some storms heading toward syracuse. d.c., baltimore, philly, new york, hartford all included in this severe risk and this enhanced rigs k sk, maybe an isd tornado. so here's the timing of it. 9:00 a.m. this morning storms through upstate fork and then during the afternoon this is the serious stuff right around 3:00 from scranton to the hudson valley to western mass. then they go right through new york city, hartford and province around 6:00 p.m. today. that's going to mean airport
delays and a slow ride home for a lot of people on i-95 today with that severe weather threat. it's going to be hot, it's going to be warm. new york city could be in the upper 80s today and then the storms will roll through later on today. so we'll give you updates here. new york city is one of those spots included. we'll be watching for those strong gusty winds and isolated tornados north of us later today. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you totaled your brand new car. nobody's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.
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nope! which is why i have xfinity xfi. it's super fast and you can control every device in the house. [ child offscreen ] hey! let's basement. and thanks to these xfi pods, the signal reaches down here, too. so sophie, i have an xfi password, and it's "daditude". simple. easy. awesome. xfinity. the future of awesome. president trump is defending his decision to call on u.s. officials to overturn penalties against a chinese telecom giant in which -- in what initially sounded like a presidential push to help save jobs in china. the president tweeted yesterday zte, the large chinese phone company buys a big percentage of individual parts from u.s. companies. this is also reflective of the larger trade deal we are negotiating with china and my personal relationship with
president xi. on sunday, the president pledged to work with the chinese president to help zte saying too many jobs in china had been lost. zte shut its main on rations after the commerce department banned u.s. companies from selling u.s. components to the company for seven years. the company was accused of shipping goods made with american parts -- >> too much information. >> but you want me to get to the next part, joe. >> come on, it's a setup. it's like a 40 minute setup. so hold on. so donald trump on sunday, let me get this straight. on sunday donald trump said he was trying to save jobs in china. huh. that is interesting. so what happened on monday? >> the chinese government is expected to contribute half a billion dollars to a trump organization linked project in
indonesia, part of china's belt and road initiative. the loans will help a chinese state owned construction company build a theme park with a trump branded golf course and hotels, advertised as flagship elements. some have noted that while the project began before trump's presidency, his tweet to help out zte came a mere 72 hours after the chinese government agreed to put half a billion dollars into the indonesian development, essentially half of its funding. reporters asked the white house about this in yesterday's oh so valuable press briefing. >> can you tell or you know, explain the administration's perspective on a, how this wouldn't violate the emoluments clause and b, how it wouldn't violate the president's own
promise that his private organization would not be getting involved in new foreign deals while he was president? >> i'll have to refer you to the trump organization. >> the trump organization can speak on the half of the president as the president, the head of the federal government, the one who is responsible and who needs to assure the american people -- >> you're asking about a private organization's dealing that may have to deal with a foreign government. it's not something i can speak to. >> i can't even -- >> so on sunday we get the tweet. on monday, we find out that right before that tweet chinese government wrote a cool check, $500 million. are they saying they planned on half a billion dollars to -- i mean, it's such a small world. how could -- how could you imagine that -- to trump organization project? >> it's seren dipty, joe. >> did you ever see that movie with -- >> yes.
it's like they're just skating around in the park and meet each other and it all comes together and it's just -- it's kind of like the bouquet that was thrown up at the the tend but it's a check that lands in donald trump's hands. >> he had nowhere to go yesterday. >> good i mean, he's good at his job. >> but this has always been the problem. somebody who has no much business around the world. so many entangling alliances around the world, there are always going to be these conflicts of interest but this one appears so blatant and so direct that suddenly he leaves his core campaign promise to protect american jobs just for one day to protect american jobs while this check is being cut. >> sarah sanders has a good knack for taking the right day off. he had nowhere to go with that. but you're right.
it is the fundamental truth that donald trump well above he became president has business, you know, entanglements throughout the globe. they of course are going to have conflicts here and the trump organization made that declaration, there's no new business after president trump takes off. that's a blurry line and that there are still some questionable international funding and this is one that of course raised eyebrows. it's also part of to put into a larger context the president attempting to take his foot off the gas a little bit in terms of the trade war with china. as he goes to xi time and again needing his support for that big summit in singapore. >> the tweet made absolutely no sense whatsoever and now it makes sense. they -- they agreed to give him half a billion dollars and so he agreed to help them out with their company. >> coming up on "morning joe," there are a lot of myths being pushed in washington these days, but eugene robinson said one in
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joining us now, associate editor of the washington post and msnbc political analyst, gene's new column is entitled real americans are a myth. in it gene writes the most offensive and corrosive idea if our politics today is that some americans are more real than others. the whole point of democracy is that every citizen's voice is supposed to have equal weight. a third generation coal miner should have equal say in charting the course of the nation. trump cleverly uses cultural and it's time to call out this ugly charade for what it is. progressives have to speak to those left behind by wrenching economic and social chains but our voices are as worthy as anyone else's. i am a real american too. deal with it.
good to see you. so what are you pegging this to? what is it that the president said exactly that set off the column? >> you know, there was nothing. this is just a pet peeve. it's something that works on me and i just -- sometimes these things build up until they really need to get written on a given day. nothing that's going on in the news in particular, but i guess i did think back and mention in the column to the evening of white house correspondents dinner when the head of the american conservative union and his wife mercedes got so offended at the jokes about the president and about sarah sanders that they left the dinner and she tweets that, you know, this is why everybody hates the out of touch elite
leftest media and they -- they tweeted about elites while in a limousine on the nbc afterparty. you know, they're a nice couple. they just bought a $3 million house. they're very successful. they're elite by any reasonable definition of the word, yet we sort of let conservatives get away with this false notion that -- that all of them are somehow real and all of us are somehow not. >> well, but i mean, jooegene, about the talk show -- talk radio hosts and talk show hosts. >> yeah. >> that play -- that play populist, that make, what -- have made a hundred million dollars? made more money -- make you and me look like pikers here. >> exactly and they're just regular guys. >> power to the people and i
think i'll buy like 12 more apartment complexes or whatever and -- no, seriously, the stupidity of it all that we're supposed to take first of all, donald trump as a populist and these other clowns as populists and -- >> yep. >> and they're somehow representing real america? >> fixers that paid porn stars. >> they're trying to figure out how to make more money for themselves. >> exactly and very successfully as the china indonesia story you just told us about tells us at least the trump family is doing fine and in fact, you know, all these folks are doing very well under this regime. they got a tax cut that showers its benefits on those who already are benefitting. >> on that front, donald trump passes tax cuts, he goes down to march la mar ra lago and he's sitting
there as his mansion in palm beach and says hey, i just made you all a lot of money. >> yeah. >> i guess what i can't understand is, i can't understand at what point do people wake up to the fact that what donald trump ran on, running against the entrenched elite, at what point do they pick up on the fact that he hasn't followed through on that? in fact, his policies are the least populist policies, you know, in modern american history if you look at the tax cut, if you look at just about everything else he's done economically, plus, like you said he's lining his own pocket by doing deals with other countries. >> you know, if i were -- if i were advising the democratic party i would say the first step in that is that democrats have to -- have to stop buying into
this notion that oh, dear, we're out of -- we're so out of touch with the real america and they're somehow in touch. they're not, really. they have managed to develop the sort of rhetorical appeal and cultural appeal. >> but the bigger question is why can't the democrats do that? why can't the democrats -- just for one second stop being so out of touch with people? i mean, all you have to do is look at the counties that -- that -- democratic and all the counties that went republican and it really is, it's along the coastlines, it's in a couple of cities. this is a bigger question for democrats. why are they so out of touch outside of urban centers? >> well, you know, i have said when, you know, when the dust settled from the 2016 election people started asking, well,
what -- you know, who's going to run in 2020? how are they going to do that? and i've always said that this has to start from the ground up. and i think, you flow, know, if look at the candidates. democratic candidates that have been recruited across the country to run in the midterms and the sort of grass roots organizing that's going on, i think that process may be underway. now, i don't want to be too sort of, you know, overly -- i don't want to get ahead of what's actually happened and we'll see the result, but i think that's the way it happens. i think it happens from the ground up. >> all right. thank you so much. we'll be reading your latest piece in today's washington post. it's a great one. and coming up on "morning joe," pennsylvania's 7th district is one of those key political seats up for grabs. jacob is just outside allentown with a special look at the important race. he joins us next on "morning joe."
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there are primary races today in four states. among them pennsylvania's 7th district whose representative resigned his seat days ago intensifying the battle for a critical swing house seat. we're back on the campaign trail with a series up for grabs. that's very fancy. >> that's sporty. >> looking at the races that will determine which party controls congress in november. >> and jacob is with us from allentown, pennsylvania and you could say this about allentown. you can say it about the entire state of pennsylvania. really it's going to be ground zero in this midterm. back in 2000 tim said florida, florida, florida. donald trump is really made 2018 about pennsylvania,
pennsylvania, pennsylvania. what's it looking like there on the ground? >> reporter: it's going to be all about pennsylvania, joe. and this district in particular is smack in the middle of a race that's, you know, got extreme national consequences. you've got -- for a couple reasons, number one, the democrats in this district have diversity. they've got somebody on the far left, the progressive, you've got someone in the center, susan wild, and then you've got a conservative democrat who actually has donald trump supporting in many regards but as important as the candidates running in this race, pennsylvania as you said is going to be critical to 2018 and then 2020 because of the newly redrawn congressional district lines here. and that's what came to check out. take a look at this. >> how critical is this road going to be on tuesday night? >> people on this side of the road are going to be voting for a new congressional member in
the 9th. and this side they'll be voting for the 7th. >> and come primary election night on tuesday --? >> we'll have a whole other set of characters as far as the burks county side and is lehigh county side. >> and that's because of this redistricting. >> the state's congressional districts had to be redrawn because they were gerrymanders, unfairly designed by the state legislature to benefit republicans who had won 13 of 18 seats, three elections in a row. the boundaries look more like a test than understandable districts including the 15th. the long time seat of republican charlie dent now redrawn to become the new 7th which cuts off burks county. >> you're the chairman of the committee? >> i am. >> this is your side of the line? >> this is our side of the new line. >> is there a difference in the political ideologies on this side of the line and that side
of the line? >> absolutely. you've got burks county that are very conservative, very second amendment, very pro life, very passionate about that and you have the lehigh county side which seems to be a little bit more moderate leaning, a little bit more tolerant of the different republicanisms within the party. >> so even though this all used to be the republican district you think there's a chance now of a zem cat winning on that side of the line? >> boy, i hope not. >> reporter: this is the city of easton. this city and its democratic leaning voters were entirely gerrymandered out of dent's district, but with the new map, not anymore. >> greg edwards is campaigning along line street which used to be where the district ended but now the voters here are potential backers. >> you going to vote next tuesday? >> good. are you a democrat? >> i am. >> i hope to earn your vote.
>> you sure will. >> weave be we've been knocking on some 30,000 doors. >> i'm greg edwards. where do you live sir? >> right here. >> so you used to live on the dividing line and now you're in the new 7th district. >> what issues are you having? >> i don't think president trump is doing a good job. he blames everything on the democrats. >> so you have a son? >> yes. >> does he play sax phone? >> i know tyrone. he's a great sax phonist. >> he just won his masters. >> this is retail politics right here. how does it feel with the new district lines? they're going to change for the first time ever on tuesday to be able to vote for mr. edwards? >> fantastic. we might be able to make a big difference. >> we're going to change the national narrative so we need
someone in congress who's going to represent the people and i'm that person. >> you are. >> again, what we're seeing here is a microcosm of what we're going to see in 2020. republicans are not happy with these new district lines. in kt ffact there's a booth to advocate against the new drawn lines and that was all over a supreme court battle here. >> nice job. jacob will be on the campaign trail between now and november and if you live in a swing congressional district and you have a story to tell about the issues that matter where you live, let him know using the hashtag up for grabs msnbc. great idea. >> you think your neighborhood on the upper west side? >> yes, totally up for grabs as it always is. >> besides pennsylvania voters the nebraska, idaho and oregon will vote today.
so steve, which story lines are you watching today? it's about pennsylvania, it's about setting the stage for the fall. it's about this new map that you've just shone there is a perfect example. basically what happened is even before this ruling on redistricting, democrats were saying this is going to be one of the epicenters. a lot of opportunities there. what the redistricting did is it made those on tuneties a lot riper. so it's a district that donald trump had won by 8 points in 2016. so in a wave year that's within reach for democrats. then dent decides he's not going to run anymore. now it's a clinton plus one district. it took a district that was a reach for democrats and now it made an extremely rife target for him. >> he was just talking to bernie sanders's campaign panger. wh -- manager.
what do you think the states that won the election for donald trump, have they swung at all in the last 16 months or are we going to find out in november? >> the one piece of legislation is the special counsel. trump won it by 20 points, republican for the last generation and that flipped so i think you look at all those special election results for the last year plus now, what puts republicans on edge nationally? what puts them on edge in a state like pennsylvania like the voters you've been describing. we have to keep in mind these midterms versus 2020. barack obama had a crucial midterm so there's always that thans there's two different dynamics there. >> so many special elections and primaries people are starting to see. is that is set that we're seeing today? are there nationalists that should be drawn from this or should this be treated like an
individual race mpl. >> i think it's setting the stage of what we're going to have in the fall. there's one candidate i find interesting on the democratic side. that precedes trump as a hot button issue there. the current congressman is going to be the republican nominee for senate this year. he was one of trump's earliest supporters in congress. he'll be the republican nominee probably for the senate and then grow eve got a democrat who says he's as tough as trump on illegal immigration. >> so we're seeing a real tie t tightening. i'm wonder k, as we see that ballot test tightening it's got to be a concern for democrats.
have we seen any elections results that might indicate a slowing down of the momentum that they've experienced the last six months? >> you've got to go back a few weeks. it was arizona and this was a district donald trump had won by 21 points. the republican won, the margin was 5. so that's consistent with what we've seen for the last year plus, so you mentioned the generic ballot. republicans are getting excited and they're also pointing to trump's approval rating. it's now in that low 42, 43% range. if you talk to republicans they say it's there or maybe a point or two higher where they can fight to keep the house, but you haven't seen those special elections really change yet. >> up next, the supreme court decision that had new jersey's former republican governor chris christie and the current democratic leader.
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to ban gambling on the outcome of sporting events. supported for decades by the major sports league, the federal ban originally was challenged by state of new jersey and then governor chris christie who tweeted after the ruling calling it, quote, a great day for rights of states and people to make their own decisions. current governor, democrat phil murphy, says he is thrilled by the ruling. >> what do you think about that, willie? because i watch, you know, english football and it is so disconcerting to see guys running around with jerseys for -- like bet 123 or whatever these places are. >> right. >> we've all seen that gambling has a corrupting influence on sports. so i'm surprised the supreme court ruled the way it did. >> the truth is, it's going on anyway. i mean, there are estimates that say there are $150 billion a year spent on illegal sports
gambling. i think the argument is this brings it out into the light. and the sports leagues, by the way, and the owners are going to do well on this because they're going to want a cut of whatever comes out of it. let's bring in msnbc supreme court contributor attorney tom goldstein. tom goldstein, let me start with you. what was at stake and how the decision was made by the six justices? >> sure. this decision is the result of -- it's no great surprise, a screwup by congress, to be honest. congress could have written a law that said americans can't bet on sports but instead it passed a law that said states can't allow people to bet on sports. what the supreme court said is the federal congress can't tell the states what laws they can pass and what they can't. so the upshot is the special role, which is grandfathered in to federal law, is the only place you can bet on sports is now up for grabs. other states can pass their own
laws saying that you can have sports betting in our states and then people can move to those new licensed sports betting companies. now, congress can come along and probably will come along to do things like you were talking about, in terms of getting the leagues involved so they can get their cut. right now, don't go fire your bookie. you have to wait still for the states to pass laws and for new companies to be licensed. >> so tom, what's it mean? >> well, it's actually pretty exciting for sports fans. you point to europe. and this is a massive business in europe. $160 billion a year. and so far, really hasn't had a corrupting influence there. what the story people are missing is this isn't just about betting, it traipse forms how people watch television. what you have going on there is it all went mobile and digital. so people watch stocker over there and is a corner kick going to be headed into the goal, yes or no, 5 bucks, and it really
creates a much more engaging experience. now, win view games, just for interest of full disclosure -- >> for the record. >> before you disclose, jonathan and i want to know if you can bet against boston red sox. >> you will be able to bet on any single -- there will be people betting on whether you stick it to willie if the boston red sox go up by more than three games -- >> people will be betting on whether -- >> that's easy money. >> i'm one to -- >> they took it off the board. >> okay, full disclosure though. >> need a full disclosure. >> full disclosure, this is a massive business in europe. win view games that 54 patents governing how mobile and digital sports gaming can occur in the united states, so this is of direct interest -- >> so you're on the line whether it is good or bad. >> in britain you can bet on, like, elections and who's going
to be elected president and things like that? >> well, you can bet on that kind of thing today. i would imagine -- >> in america? >> well there are all kinds of markets for allowing that kind of stuff. but today, you can play a game of skill. people will play warri warriors/houston last night and it's a game of skill, like trivia. you get 20 or 25 questions. what this means is you can do a game of chance. bet on single proposition. is mika going to cut you off in less than 30 seconds if you're talking about alabama beating auburn. there are going to be all kinds of lines that develop here. >> i'd give it 30 seconds. >> i think willie raised it, which is what you're describing, folks on their phones right now betting on, you know, the super bowl, the ncaa tournament, the action in the game. there's already a massive domestic american economy built around that. but they are on their phones going to some place offshore right now. >> yes. but that's a pretty limited
amount of people relative to opening this up, legalizing it, allowing people that do the mobile interactive synchronized to your television experience. it's going to have a massive effect on how people watch television. >> so, tom, the securiupreme co obviously ruled in the negative here. congress cannot pass a stupid law like this. is there any chance the supreme court might come back and place some limits on what states can and cannot do? >> no, this really is a situation where the supreme court said if there isn't a power that's given to the congress, the states can do basically whatever they want. so unless and until congress comes and passes a gnaw law, the states have a huge amount of flexibility here to permit sports betting on all kinds of things. >> one of the early wehners seems to be the nfl which the last couple of years has combated declining ratings and a lot of controversy. this is a moment now to me on a sunday you can get on your phone
and bet like on if this kickoff is going to be a touchback or not. isn't this going to drive new viewership to the game? >> what happened in europe is 70% of betting stopped being on the outcome of the game, who's going to win the game, and it all went inside on the -- >> individual moment. >> it's like fantasy league -- >> well, fantasy stuff has been considered a game of skill. >> right. >> so you can do cash fantasy today, fan duel, draft king, win view, which is inside the game. this means you can do a game of chance. meaning it's okay if people guess. it's okay if skill doesn't predomina predominate. that is going to drive a whole different leave of attention to what's going on. >> a world where it's no longer meritocracy, i think we'll fit in just fine. >> we're still going to keep our relationship with our bookie though, even though he's -- >> we have to. it's like -- >> -- way off the grid. >> who am i going to invite to thanksgiving if not him and all his gypsy family? >> for all the protests, the
leagues have talked about the integrity of the games and all that over the years, they've now said the nba and nfl have said, well, as long as you're doing it, we will go ahead and take 1% of the gambling business and mark cuban who owns the dallas mavericks said yesterday i think everybody who owns a top four professional sports team just saw the value of their team double with this new ruling. >> well, there's going to be a lot of fighting over the pie here and what goes to whom. but the fact of the matter is, the leagues, the teams get most of their money from sports rights on television. as i said, this is going to drive sports rights on television. before all this is figured out, you can play games of skill, you just -- you answer in 25 questions, not a single question. do it tonight. >> really quickly, why new jersey? >> the atlantic city economy is collapsing so there was an urgency there to find a way to save atlantic city. christie signed on late to this. there was a man who ten years ago filed the first lawsuit. he's now out of the politics but
he got the ball rolling. >> tom, thank you. that does it for us this morning. are you going to zip it? that's amazing. i'm impressed. >> i bet on myself not to interrupt you. >> stephanie ruhle. >> thanks, mika, thanks, joe. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. protests, day two. after 60 palestinians were killed in gaza, more palestinians are taking to the streets. the white house pointing a finger at one side. >> the responsibility for these tragic deaths rest squarely with hamas. hamas is provoking this response. >> place your bets. the supreme court clears the way for states to legalize sports betting. >> let's let it be regulated. let's let it be taxed. let's tuesday fuse it for the g instead of calling it gambling. >> back in business.